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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Dec 1979

Vol. 317 No. 8

Nomination of Members of Government (Resumed).

Atógadh an díospóireacht ar an rún seo leanas:Go gcomhaontóidh Dáil Éireann leis an Taoiseach d'ainmniú na dTeachtai seo a leanas chun a gceaptha ag an Uachtarán mar chomhaltaí den Rialtas:Seoirse Ó CollaBrian Ó LuineacháinPádraig Ó FachtnaDeasún Ó MáilleGearóid Ó CoileáinMícheál Ó CinnéideSalbhastar BairéadEoghan Mac GearailtSeán P. Mac UilliamRéamann Mac SearraighMáire Nic Eochagáin Uí ChuinnMicheál Ó hUadhaighPádraig de PaoragusAilbhe Mac Raghnaill

Debate resumed on the following motion.That Dáil Éireann approve the nomination by the Taoiseach of the following Deputies for appointment by the President to be members of the Government:George ColleyBrian J. LenihanPádraig FaulknerDesmond J. O'MalleyGerard CollinsMichael O'KennedySylvester BarrettGene FitzgeraldJohn Patrick WilsonRay Mac SharryMáire Geoghegan-QuinnMichael J. WoodsPatrick PowerandAlbert Reynolds.

—(The Taoiseach).

Initially, I wish well to the new Ministers who have been nominated by the new Taoiseach to serve the House and the country. I believe that is an appropriate way to speed them on their terms of office, and though of course we will serve notice on them at the appropriate time and in the appropriate way that we will examine the discharging by them of their responsibilities, now is not the time to do it; they deserve a clean start.

The same cannot be said for some of the other appointments that are in front of us for ratification today. I must dissent from some of the expressions of goodwill being made towards the Taoiseach, for very specific reasons.

The Taoiseach's appointment is not under discussion now.

I do not propose to discuss it. I am proposing to discuss the Ministers whom he has presented to the Dáil for confirmation or rejection by us. Yesterday I was intrigued to hear in the House, from this side, statements that it is possible for the Government, and particularly for the Minister for Labour, to solve the industrial relations problems facing the country. One would like to think this is so, but nothing could be further from the truth, the reason being not just that Deputy Gene Fitzgerald has been nominated to be Minister for Labour or because of the nomination of any Minister, but the simple undeniable fact that it is impossible for a Government who represent the interests of capital to solve the problems of labour.

In relation to some of the other appointments being proposed to us, I was intrigued by the vociferousness on the Government benches last night particularly of Deputies Collins, Lenihan and Gene Fitzgerald. In contrast to the almost total silence which those benches had been whipped in to observe, the interjections, and they were no more than that, of these three Deputies bore all the hallmarks of the relief of men whose heads had been removed from the chopping block at the eleventh hour.

I wish to point out to the House that it has always been the practice that Members whose appointments are under discussion are not allowed to intervene in the debate.

I was pointing out that they had intervened and I was suggesting a reason for it. I will deal with them later in more detail. The primary point I want to make, and it is plain from the nominations that have been put before us, is that it does not appear to matter a great deal who appear on the front bench of the Government. Nevertheless, an attempt obviously has been made to mend some of the fences which have been broken down so assiduously over the years.

In the nominations he has proposed to us the Taoiseach obviously has taken account of the fact that his party were seriously and substantially divided over his own election. We in this party are no strangers to a split vote on a leadership issue, if anything, split more evenly than the vote which elected the Taoiseach. However, both sides of the split in this party are united in at least one thing, and that is on the nature of the society they want to see here.

The fences have been partially mended but it is a very odd Cabinet. Most Irish Cabinets in the past 10 years or so had a fairly defined look about them. One could hazard an educated guess as to the likely things that would happen when they sat down around a table. One cannot say the same about this Cabinet. It is not necessarily a fault in itself but it is worth mentioning: the majority of the members of this Cabinet had never held Cabinet office before 1977. I am not against the introduction of new blood into the Cabinet, far from it, but that is one thing. New brooms are another, and there is no great evidence of new brooms in this Cabinet.

To all intents and purposes, with one exception to which I will return later, this is a one-man Cabinet. It is the Taoiseach's Cabinet and effectively he is the most important man in it. Of all the faces and names on the front bench which have been proposed to us only one matters, apart from the Taoiseach. Only one person in that Cabinet was in a position to bargain or even to begin to make terms with the new leader and his party. There is only one person in this Cabinet whom the Taoiseach needed more than that person needed the Taoiseach and I will be coming to him in a moment. First, I want to refer in more detail to some of the appointments concerned.

The first name in the order presented to us yesterday is that of Deputy Colley as Minister for Tourism and Transport. We should be mature enough to distinguish personal from political considerations in this House, and when I say that I have sympathy for Deputy Colley it is purely on a personal level. His political fortunes are his own responsibility and always have been, but on a personal level I felt some sympathy for him as I saw him sitting there yesterday as if the marrow had been sucked out of his bones, listening to himself being proposed as Minister for Tourism and Transport, Minister for CIE's overdraft and for giving grants for bed and breakfast places in hotels round the country. His appointment as Tánaiste was a lollipop to sweeten all that. He will, of course, be made Minister for Energy in the future, so we have been told, and that is no small responsibility. However, in the meantime he is to be given a position which corresponds only too closely with the substantal decline in his political fortunes. Deputy Colley has been Minister for Finance for many years and I and other Deputies on this side of the House have reason to know that, even though we disagree fundamentally with his economic strategy and his analysis of the economic problems facing our country, he knew his stuff backwards and there was no more clever or punctilious adversary in this House during the long Committee Stages of a Finance Bill than Deputy Colley. He has talents which I believe will not be utilised by this Government in this area and effectively he has been put out to grass. In his initial press conference the Taoiseach told us that Deputy Colley had promised him either his support or co-operation—I am not quite sure which word he used. It is a pity that the rules of the House prevent Deputy Colley from addressing us because we on this side of the House would like to know whether this promise of support and co-operation was made to the Taoiseach before or after he made that announcement on television.

The reason that I have spent some time on Deputy Colley's history in Finance is that one has to contrast his handling of that Department with what we can expect from his successor, Deputy O'Kennedy. There could not have been any more deliberate snub to the previous Government than the axing of Deputy Colley from Finance and his replacement by Deputy O'Kennedy coupled with the abolition of the Department of Economic Planning and Development. When the Department of Economic Planning and Development were set up the man who was their Minister for two-and-a-half years made some very telling points from that side of the House when we were criticising the detail of the creation of the Department and argued, for example, that this was the first major piece of administrative reform which had been effected for many years and that the previous Government had made no significant changes in this regard. The Labour Party believe profoundly in economic planning and development, and if we disagreed with the incumbent of that office in his targets, his strategy and his approaches it was not because we disagreed with the concept. We would see the abolition of that Department as a retrograde step. More than that, we would see their re-incorporation in the Department of Finance, from whom they were forever trying to escape, under the aegis of Deputy O'Kennedy as a very clear sign that the real Minister for Finance in this Government will be the Taoiseach himself. It is a truism that any Taoiseach would like to control to a reasonable degree the Department of Finance, but seldom has control been exercised so nakedly as by the putting into this key, major Department of a man who, for all his gifts, is a political lightweight.

We are asked now to ratify Deputy Lenihan as Minister for Foreign Affairs. One thing that can be said for Deputy Lenihan is that he is a survivor. I can imagine him giving free lessons to crews in the next Fastnet race. He has often described himself as the socialist in the Cabinet. One thing I will say for him is that in contra-distinction to many of us, there is not an ounce of malice in the man. However, he has one political liability and that is an inborn, innate, inability to say "no" to anybody. This has led him into more political scrapes than I can remember. He is now to be put into a position where he will be required, as Minister for Foreign Affairs, to say "no" very loudly and very often in the interests of this country. I hope for the sake of all of us that he will find the courage to say "no".

I have known Deputy Faulkner for many years, both professionally when I was a journalist interested in education and he was Minister for Education and since then in the other House and here. He has a reputation, which is deserved, of being an extremely hard-working Minister who may lack vision but who does not lack integrity. He is a loyal man whom any Taoiseach would like to have at his back. He has sometimes in the past and even in the present administration been at least as much sinned against as sinning. However, he has the problem in that even on the odd occasion on which he adopts the correct line and policy, he finds it almost impossible to convince the public, let alone anybody here, that this is what he is doing. One has the distinct impression of Deputy Faulkner that if he were a dove and sent out from the Ark by Noah and found an olive branch, he would be so tired by the time he got here that he would sit on the olive branch rather than bring it back. However, the Defence portfolio may not be the worst place for Deputy Faulkner. He was the focus of considerable discontent and hard feeling during his tenure of office in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. He is one of the very few of the existing Ministers that I would wish well in his new appointment.

Another of the survivors is Deputy Gerry Collins who is to remain in his position as Minister for Justice. Like many other Fianna Fáil Ministers, Deputy Collins' speciality has nothing to do with policies but everything to do with winning elections. This has been his forte ever since his student days at UCD where he was some years senior to me. He is a man who, efficiently and perhaps even ruthlessly, will do what he is told. He might be regarded as the mercenary of the Government. He is not interested in policy of any description. Rather, he is interested in keeping his job and in doing what he is told.

Deputy Collins has two specialities of which no doubt we shall experience more in this House. First, he has an air of injured innocence which can cover up the most extraordinary faux pas and slips of administration. Secondly, he has a special kind of basso profundo voice which he adopts in answer to the most damaging of questions at Question Time. It is sad to think that, among other things, he will be remembered largely for his decision to open the institution known as Loughan House.

Deputy Barrett is with us again as Minister for the Environment but I do not propose to deal in detail with him because Deputy Quinn will be taking the opportunity of dwelling on the matter of his retention in this Department. Deputy Barrett's tenure of office in the Department of the Environment has been little short of disastrous. Deputy Tully and others have pointed to the slowing down in finance for local authority housing but whether one considers the position regarding local authority housing or regarding private housing, one can see in this Minister a very graphic example of the hamfistedness with which the Government have approached the task of economic national reconstruction. Deputy Barrett has had a particular responsibility for a key area in national reconstruction and regeneration, that is, the growth of the housing industry, but what the Deputy did not recognise was that the housing industry is a very complex part of our economy which needs very tentative handling if it is to produce the best results. The way Deputy Barrett approached the housing construction section of our economy can be compared with a tinker chasing a race horse with an ash plant. The Deputy pumped money into the housing sector of the economy but he pumped this money in at the demand end, thinking and hoping—and I give him credit for this—that the supply end of the economy would meet the demand which had thus been fuelled financially.

However, we all know what exists at the supply end of the housing sector of industry. At the demand end of the housing sector there exists a system of acute profiteering based on land speculation and a large number of builders who know a good thing when they see it and what they saw in the shape of Deputy Barrett appearing on the horizon brandishing £1,000 grants, was a once-and-for-all, never-to-be-taken again opportunity to add even further to their speculative profits and they were able to do that because of the overall approach of the Government of which Deputy Barrett was and is to remain a member. That was the approach, that people who own their own land and build houses can make unacceptable levels of profit at the expense of people who need a roof over their heads. When there is no control of the price or of the supply of building land, the obvious result of pumping more money into the demand end of the housing sector is a squeeze, with supply not meeting demand, so that prices increase, the building societies' average loans increase and the amount of these societies' finance available for the purpose of further houses is decreased.

The insensitive and even carefree way with which this vital sector of the economy was approached by Deputy Barrett gives us no reason to be confident that he will be able to do anything serious about this area in the future.

Admittedly, towards the end of his recent tenure of office, Deputy Barrett by way of the Building Societies' Bill and a number of other pieces of legislation, has been making half-hearted attempts to close the stable door but the horse has bolted and is way out there half way to the horizon.

Deputy Gene Fitzgerald is to be reappointed as Minister for Labour. It is totally relevant to examine the contribution he has made to industry and to industrial relations during his two and a half years in office. There have been several phases in his tenure of this key ministry. The first was one of almost total invisibility. Labour disputes could rock the country but the only labour disputes in which Deputy Fitzgerald was even remotely interested in intervening had a conspicuous contiguity to the city and county of Cork. Then came the Euro elections and a severe boot in the rear was administered to Deputy Fitzgerald and to other Ministers by way of the voting in those elections and also in the local elections. Suddenly, there was a frenetic burst of activity from Deputy Fitzgerald on each and every industrial dispute. However, there is a problem here, as my colleague Deputy O'Leary was not slow to remark while he was on the other side of the House, that is, that realistically there is a limit to the number of disputes in which the Minister for Labour can intervene and to the number of disputes in which he ought to interevene. Trade unions, just as much as employers, are rightly jealous of their own prerogatives in the area of negotiation, of bargaining and industrial action. It would be a poor Minister for Labour who would seek to intervene in every dispute before the accepted channels of negotiation had been exhausted but there will be exceptional cases in which he ought to intervene earlier.

Deputy Fitzgerald faced with criticism, both public and private, about his inactivity in his job, adopted this technique of a flurry of activity which when analysed was totally empty of content. Since then almost every major industrial dispute which has hit the headlines has been accompanied by a little paragraph somewhere in the story to the effect that: The Minister for Labour in a statement just issued is very worried about the situation and is keeping in close touch with it. This is all we have had. Part of the problem is that it encourages people to think that solving strikes is the only function of a Minister for Labour. Nothing could be further from the truth. The function of solving strikes is primarily a matter for the negotiators concerned. The primary function of a Minister for Labour should be to investigate, strengthen, refurbish and develop where necessary the law on industrial relations.

In contrast to the period of office of the previous Government, when seven major pieces of industrial legislation were passed in this House, the record of Deputy Fitzgerald is pitiful. We have had the appointment of a Commission on Industrial Relations which, as Deputy Mitchell said last night, has been hamstrung by the absence of one of its vital partners. It is more important than ever before that the overall law on industrial relations should be looked at. Our fundamental law is still the 1906 Act. As a number of people, including most, particularly many teachers, have found to their cost in the past few years, there are huge groups of workers who are not afforded the basic protection of the 1906 Act when they engage in an official industrial dispute against their employers. I believe the proposals to update this law were under active consideration when Fianna Fáil took office. Given the past record of Deputy Fitzgerald in the Department of Labour, I doubt if we can expect any decision or action or new legislation of a positive kind from him in the next two years. In fact, the only indication we have had of any forthcoming legislation in the industrial area has been a suggestion by the Taoiseach that something might have to be done and it was said in a context which made it clear, certainly as far as I was concerned, that he was less concerned about extending the protection of trade union legislation to workers than about restricting it.

In relation to Deputy Wilson the former Minister for Education, now to be Minister for Education again, it can be said that for a man whose speciality is keeping a high profile at times he kept a most extraordinary low profile in the past week. I never once saw in public print an indication of any threat to his position as Minister for Education. This is perhaps the greatest triumph of his career to date.

The fact is Deputy Wilson came to office loaded with a number of very expensive election promises in the Fianna Fáil manifesto and he had to be goaded remorselessly from this side of the House before he could deliver on some of the most basic promises. He had to be goaded into raising the higher education grants, which he had promised to raise immediately, by a motion put forward from these benches and which was accepted shamefacedly by him in October 1978. He had to be goaded into providing more finance for primary schools. He made some extraordinary mistakes of judgment and many of his promises simply have not materialised. What happened to the 600 trained graduate teachers who were supposed to flood into our schools? Did one-third of them ever stand up in front of a class? What happened to the 600 secretarial assistants for primary and secondary schools who were supposed to take the burden off the backs of so many of the principal teachers? Today, two years after the scheme was introduced, barely one-third of the 600 jobs have been filled and I suspect the same is true of the scheme in relation to caretakers which was announced in this year's budget.

When the sums are done and if it is found that Deputy Wilson has achieved even the bare minimum of what he has promised it will be a great surprise. Some of the key things still remain to be delivered—legislation in relation to universities and, above all, the White Paper on Education. When Deputy Wilson first came to this House as Minister I said we would support him in his effort to get money, provided he spent it in the right way. He is in charge of a difficult Department, one that needs £450 million each year just in order to keep the show on the road. I do not know if we can draw confidence from the fact that in a recent article in a student newspaper in University College, Dublin, he paid tribute to the then Minister for Health and said that their interests were never really at variance when it came to bargaining for money around the Cabinet table.

As I have said I will leave the new Ministers to the judgment of this House at another time in relation to the performance of their duties. Before concluding I wish to comment on one of the key members of the Cabinet and, as I said, the only person the Taoiseach actually had to include, namely, Deputy O'Malley. Deputy Colley was a spent force politically after Friday. Deputy O'Malley was not. So it was that the Taoiseach had to include Deputy O'Malley in his Cabinet if he was to avoid a very real danger of a focus of opposition to himself and to his policies developing outside the Cabinet room. I believe this was the reason Deputy O'Malley was included, that it was the reason why Deputy O'Malley, if anyone was in a position to do so, was able to impose some kind of conditions on his appointment and was probably able to bargain with his leader.

The importance of Deputy O'Malley is not just that he is an able and hard-working man—which he is—but that he represents for the business community here the acceptable face of Irish capitalism. As I said at length last night, I believe the Taoiseach himself and his supporters do not represent the acceptable face of Irish capitalism. This is the importance of Deputy O'Malley. During a budget debate a Government backbencher, Deputy Leydon, used the phrase "the unacceptable face of capitalism" to define the excessive profits being made by the banking system. He seemed to be unaware that the phrase had been used by a British Tory Prime Minister, Edward Heath, and not by anyone on the left side of the political spectrum. Of course it could not be uttered by anyone on the left side of the political spectrum for the simple reason that it implies that capitalism has an acceptable face. We do not believe it has but in so far as there are people who believe it has, Deputy O'Malley is their spokesman. He is a man almost unique on the Government benches who cannot only use a word such as "ideology" but who knows what it means when he uses it. Left outside the Cabinet he could have been a powerful focus of opposition. I tend to believe that had Deputy Colley withdrawn his nomination and put his troops behind Deputy O'Malley we might be discussing a different Cabinet today.

I should like to refer to a quotation from one of Deputy O'Malley's speeches which has a very ironic ring today and which I am sure he now regrets. As reported in the Irish Independent of 26 January 1976, Deputy O'Malley, then in Opposition, said:

...men of violence in our land were doing far less harm to it—"serious and all as is the damage they are doing—than the outspoken people now in Government who are progressively destroying the economic and democratic fabric of our society."

"What our people should be warned about is that we are now fast approaching the day in the Republic when our economy will break down completely. The resultant chaos which will arise when public servants and social welfare recipients can no longer be paid will allow great freedom of action to anarchists and extremists of all kinds to overthrow our institutions and establish some sort of totalitarian regime..."

That was only in 1976, three-and-a-half years ago. If ever words deserved to be eaten they should be eaten today by Deputy O'Malley.

It is a hotch-potch of a Cabinet. It will be judged effectively at the time of the General Election, not on the characteristics of any one of its members but on the leadership which it has or has not been given.

Before I conclude I should like to say that I do not find it difficult to understand, for reasons which have been hinted at in the public prints and which were mean and unworthy, that Deputy Jim Gibbons should have been so unceremoniously axed from the position of Minister for Agriculture. I am unaware of anything that Deputy Gibbons did during his tenure of office in that Department which justified his dismissal. Deputy Gibbons had a special obsession with the Labour Party. He believed that it was dedicated to the overthrow of Irish society and the common agricultural policy; indeed, at times it was difficult to know which he considered the worst thing that could happen. He was an honest man by his lights and he did not deserve the fate meted out to him.

I believe that a new Government deserve time to settle in and I will give them time. I want to put the Taoiseach and the members of his Government on notice in regard to what they should be doing before the next general election. There is no doubt that they will be put out of Government if they do not do certain things between now and then.

The reason for the change in the deck of cards is that the Taoiseach was elected on the basis of the backbenchers holding their seats. That may seem laudable to the backbenchers but I believe that they made a bad decision. However, the decision is theirs and they will have to live with it. The new line-up cannot hope to inspire the nation. More than anything else we need leadership. The country is crying out for positive leadership. The country will not get positive leadership from a Government led by Deputy Haughey. All they are doing is buying time. We may have the spectacle of a further revolt by the people who have been moved to the back benches within six months or a year when they find themselves in trouble again. The reason for the change will not be to provide good government but to protect the seats of the backbenchers. Of course, that philosophy is doomed to failure.

In the interim I believe that the Government should govern as there are a number of areas needing immediate attention. The figures for local authority housing are down by more than 1,000.

The Deputy should relate his discussion to the appointment of the Members proposed for nomination.

I am discussing the appointment of the Minister for the Environment.

The workings of the Department can more appropriately be discussed on the Estimate. The motion before the House is the approval of a number of persons named for appointment by the President.

I am discussing the appointment of the Minister for the Environment. During his two-and-a-half years in office the Minister failed to provide housing for those who are most in need of it. The cost of private housing is now very high. Young couples can afford to buy houses only on joint incomes. In order to do this they have to mortgage themselves to the hilt and to deny themselves the most basic human right of having a family. They cannot afford houses because of the failure of the Minister for the Environment to tackle the whole question of house prices. That is an indictment of the general failure of the Cabinet which has now been changed.

When the White Paper suggested that there should be a cutback on local authority housing the Minister for the Environment did not raise any great objections. I should like to know why. The fact that he did not respond to that suggestion showed his complete lack of concern and ability to come to grips with the problem. He was totally out of touch with what was happening. It appears that the same Deputy will occupy the post of Minister for the Environment for the remainder of this Dáil and it is hard to understand that when one considers that he has not been successful to date in that area. However, I will give him some time because it is possible that there will be a change in direction. If there is not the Government will face a serious housing problem. We will have people living in misery in tenement rooms with slum landlords charging huge rents. I hope the Taoiseach will tell the Minister for the Environment what should be done in regard to the serious housing problem in Dublin city.

We also face a serious problem in relation to our roads. Most of the roads from Dublin to other parts of the country are not much better than cart tracks. Have the Government any policy in relation to this matter? We have all heard a lot of talk about decentralisation but that will not succeed unless we improve the communication network from the city. It is possible that the Minister failed to cope with this problem in the past because he did not get sufficient funds from the Department of Finance. However, he had a responsibility in relation to roads and other matters and he failed.

Another area which the Minister for the Environment ignored was that of air pollution. When the name of the Department was changed from Local Government to Environment in 1977 we expected new thinking in relation to the environment. One matter that concerns our environment greatly now is the question of air pollution. We all read of the concern of an eminent heart surgeon recently about air pollution. He exhorted those in the transport business not to use buses or heavy vehicles likely to cause air pollution. We should take the advice of such a person who is concerned about the health of our people but the Minister does not appear to think there is any great problem. I should like to know what will be done about air pollution now that people must revert to coal fires. Is any detailed examination being carried out about this? I have not heard any expression of concern by the Minister in this regard. The Minister must also concern himself with the question of the lead content in petrol. While it is doubtful if this matter concerns his Department, nevertheless it relates to the environment in general.

The Deputy is moving far away from the motion.

I am discussing the Department of the Environment and the person whose name has been put forward to run that Department.

The matter referred to is not relevant to that Department.

It does not necessarily refer to that Department but the Minister should ensure that the Department responsible does something about this problem. The problem of air pollution is the responsibility of this Minister and he should do something about it.

I expected a change in the Department of Labour because of the serious situation that exists in our industrial relations. I have nothing personal against the Minister concerned but we must judge him on his record and examine the facts. When in Opposition that Minister was jumping up and down like a jack-in-the-box telling us he had all the solutions to our industrial problems. As a result when the Government was announced in 1977 he was put in charge of the Department of Labour. We all know of the trail of destruction since. It is clear that when a dispute occurs the Minister and his Department become totally paralysed and unable to take action. The Minister has used every guise to show that such disputes were not his responsibility. He has told us on many occasions that he cannot intervene in such disputes but he was not of that frame of mind when in Opposition. We must put a question mark over his appointment. However, the Taoiseach may give him directions and for that reason I am prepared to give him a trial period. On the question of industrial relations we have heard a lot of talk about a special commission. I should like to know when we can expect the findings of that commission. We have also heard noises about certain legislation. Some people believe that the type of legislation that should be introduced in the industrial field should be draconian measures.

I advise the Minister for Labour to hasten slowly in this regard. That is not the way to solve industrial relations. Rather should it be done through goodwill, the setting up of management and training structures and so on. There is room for much incentive in this area, which has been totally ignored to date. If the Government feel they can solve industrial relations problems by the introduction of legislation, that would be the rock on which they would perish. I accept that changes in legislation are necessary. All legislation needs to be updated from time to time to keep pace with the moving times, but such review must not cause further problems or create more than it would solve. Therefore the Minister for Labour, who has been reinstated, has a short period of time in which to vindicate his name and, if he does not, he will be rightly judged harshly.

In the Department of Education Deputy Wilson has spoken a lot but achieved very little. While a little more money was pumped into primary education, nevertheless it remains the Cinderella of our educational system. It is one aspect of education that tends to be put to one side. This is an educational sector crying out for humane consideration; certainly it is crying out for help. I am speaking here particularly of inner city and urban areas, where there are serious educational problems, a high degree of illiteracy, where there are many social problems and pressures on young people, such as bad housing, unemployment and so on. It is my firm belief that in those areas the student-teacher ratio must be reduced dramatically. Minor modifications in the system do not tackle these problems and, unless they are tackled, they will have far more serious consequences for our society.

The Minister for Justice, present in the House, is aware of the immense problem of vandalism. Most young people engaging in this vandalism come from deprived schools. By that I mean that, while their schools may conform to standards in other areas, they do not meet the requirements of the areas about which I am speaking. That should be the criterion rather than a broadly-based set of rules. There should be a well defined set of rules to meet the needs of pupils in different areas. Finance cannot be advanced as being the problem here because in inner city areas there are empty class rooms in all the schools as a result of the population decline. Therefore what we are talking about are teachers and, given the kind of investment about which I am speaking, it would cost very little. It would be far better to invest in education in that area than having to invest in law enforcement measures as an alternative at a later stage. If one does not tackle this problem educationally—and here Deputy Wilson failed miserably—then it is passed on to other Departments who will find it more costly to deal with, if it can be dealt with at all.

I do not concern myself with third level education because the people involved there are articulate. They know what they want, they know how to get it and they have their pressure groups. In its own way second level education possesses the same kind of muscle. I am concerned with the primary education sector, which has little or no muscle. If we in this House are serious in our concern, if the Minister for Education is serious, then there is a grave obligation on him to do something substantial for people in this sector who so badly need help. He has not responded to their needs at all to date. I should like to put the Minister on notice that I will be taking this matter up again. I have no doubt but that the new Taoiseach is aware of the problems about which I speak—he is not far removed from them in his constituency—and I would hope he would give a direction to have something done. Any form of investment in this area will be money well spent and will reap first class rewards.

Deputy Faulkner has been retained as a Minister but transferred to the Department of Defence. He was, if you like, the victim of a particular industrial dispute in his former Department. Perhaps it was that he did nothing about it. I hope he will avail of his new appointment to do something in the Department of Defence. Certainly, in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs he appeared to be a failure, particularly in regard to the industrial dispute with which he was concerned, when he seemed unable to do anything, but perhaps was constrained by his colleagues in Government or whatever. Certainly, he appeared to sit down and hope that things would happen. I hope his approach in the Department of Defence will be somewhat different, because it is an important portfolio. I hope he will exercise a better sense of imagination there than he appeared to do in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.

All of the emphasis on the 1977 General Election platform seems to have been totally abandoned. That emphasis was built up from an economic base and the people responsible for its initiation and maintenance have been removed completely. We have not heard what will replace it. We shall have to wait and see what will be the policies of the new Government before we can pass judgment in that respect. Obviously, there is now a clear admission that the policies that won the general election two and a half years ago have been disastrous. They were so disastrous that some of the people who put them into print have been dismissed and others demoted. It is quite clear that the direction in which the Government were going was wrong. It was the right direction ten days ago but overnight it became the wrong direction.

Deputy O'Kennedy as Minister for Finance and Economic Planning has a formidable task ahead of him. I do not believe he has the expertise or the ability to deal with it, but we have to give him time to see how he will succeed. It is alarming that what was purported to be sound economic policy ten days ago is now catastrophic and we must leave it behind as quickly as possible. A great majority of the people who supported that view are in the new Cabinet. It is hard to reconcile those facts.

I am happy that the Taoiseach is to appoint a Minister for Energy. It is important that this new Ministry be created when we consider the effects that energy can have on our economy and on our way of life. It was not necessary to do this a few years ago. I believe it is important to look at different Ministries and update them. There is a new appointment to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. Now that that Department are to have divided responsibility, surely that Ministry should have been amalgamated with another one and perhaps a new Ministry for some other area set up? I hope that this Department is only on a short-term basis until the new Post Office structure is set up.

I would have thought that a Minister for Social Welfare would have been appointed as well as a Minister for Health. The Taoiseach was Minister for Health and Minister for Social Welfare. Because of his efforts in the health field the social welfare field was completely ignored. There has been a complete breakdown in the payment of social welfare recipients, with long, unnecessary delays and chaos. I believe this is because the Taoiseach, when he was Minister for Health and Minister for Social Welfare ignored the social welfare area. There probably was not enough for him in the public relations exercise. When we consider the great area social welfare is and the great importance it has in our society at the moment the Taoiseach should have appointed a Minister who would be responsible for that area alone to ensure that it gets its share of the economic cake.

The big problem at the moment in the industrial relations field is the nurses dispute. The new Government have a big responsibility in tackling this problem, which could be a very serious industrial problem. They should have it resolved as soon as possible because such a dispute could affect the lives of patients if it is not resolved quickly. The Taoiseach should have dealt with the nurses more compassionately than he did. The new Minister will have to tackle this problem.

The new Government have a great responsibility, now that they admit that their policies, particularly their economic policies, were wrong. If the economic policy is got right, others follow. We will now wait and see the direction the new Taoiseach and his Cabinet move in the economic field. I hope the new Taoiseach will give leadership, which is badly needed. The important thing, no matter who is in Government, is that the country comes first. As long as we are in Opposition we have to be watchdogs and we have to ensure that policies which should be implemented are brought forward. We cannot implement policies, but we have a serious responsibility in Opposition.

I believe we should give a short breathing space to the new Government and if the economic, social, agricultural and other policies they bring forward do not stand up they will be tested from this side of the House. I have no doubt that not only will this side of the House make it hard for the Government if we feel that the policies they bring forward are not right for the country but there could well be people on the other side who will also make it hard for them. I hope everything succeeds. We will put our policies forward to the country at the next election and I have no doubt that when comparisons are made we will change from this side of the House to the far side. Until then we are giving the Government notice that after the honeymoon period we will be hard task masters to ensure that the nation gets effective leadership in relation to all the major policies. If this does not happen life will be made intolerable for them.

I take this opportunity of congratulating the Taoiseach and the new Ministers on their appointment If I may quote a phrase used last week: "The best of luck. You are certainly going to need it." I wish them the best of luck and everyone in this country knows they are going to need it. The best way to describe the choice taken last week by Fianna Fáil is that it was a gamble and yesterday this House decided to take a gamble; this is a gambler's Government. Perhaps the country at this particular time is happy to accept this type of leadership. Things have gone very badly for the last 18 months. Everybody, regardless of his or her politics, must admit that it is time for a change and thank God for a change; things could not be worse, they must get better. A gamble is always a chance, one way or the other and I hope this one has been taken in the interests of the country and will succeed, that the economy will improve and things will be a lot better than in the past.

No one can say any more that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have the same policies or the same type of leadership; there is now a marked difference and we now have two separate types of leader. Fianna Fáil have two-and-a-half years to prove which type of leadership is the correct one. It was interesting to note yesterday that the Taoiseach, in his announcement, dropped the new Department of the last Government, Economic Planning and Development. When that Department was established, a lot of us had reservations about it. It should never have been created, anyway. The Department of Finance should have been left under one Minister who should have had authority to control everything to do with economic planning, development and finance. I welcome the Taoiseach's announcement that that Department has been done away with and that these matters are back under the auspices of the Department of Finance.

I also welcome the Taoiseach's decision to include more businessmen in his Cabinet, which is a good thing. We may have had, in the past, too many lawyers, particularly in this House. No one can legislate like them as far as paperwork is concerned, but they are inclined to live up in the clouds and we now want men to come down to earth and see the problems that must be dealt with in the next two-and-a-half years. I am delighted to see someone of the calibre of Deputy Reynolds appointed; he is a self-made man who has built up his own firm. It is men like that, with flair, who are needed in any Government of the present time. Deputy MacSharry, who was appointed to Agriculture, also came up the hard way. There are only 25 miles between our constituencies and I am delighted that he has been recognised and given a portfolio—whether Agriculture is the right one for him or not, I wish him, as my nearest Deputy, the very best of luck. The Taoiseach, one could also say, came up the hard way and people of that type will bring a new approach, new thinking and more down-to-earth handling of everyday problems.

I do not wish to dwell too long on the last two-and-a-half years, or on the last ten years, but particularly the last 18 months have been crucial for this country, which has really taken a hammering. The fault for this must lie fairly and squarely with the Government who have now gone out of office. They did not handle a lot of the problems properly; some of the Ministers did not bother. Judging by the Cork by-election if the Government do not do their job properly our many young people will stand for no nonsense and kick them out. The Government have two-and-a-half years to prove that they can give good Government and, fortunately, we have a real alternative to Fianna Fáil as far as leadership is concerned.

A lot of people underestimate our new Taoiseach but very few doubt that he is capable and a worker. Some people like him, and there can be even a frenzy about him, as seen yesterday, but some people hate him. It is a gamble that we are taking in appointing him as Taoiseach. I have always found him to be very friendly and capable.

The Deputy cannot discuss the Taoiseach's appointment in this debate. That finished yesterday.

There are a few question marks concerning the Government the basic one being their policy towards Northern Ireland. We have had, for ten years, problems in Northern Ireland and even in parts of Southern Ireland. I need not quote the terrible figures of 2,000 dead and 20,000 injured. At this time, this entire country is looking for a new direction, a change of leadership and the direction this House took yesterday might not be a bad one.

I am delighted to see Deputy Lenihan promoted to Foreign Affairs from Fisheries where I was his watchdog for this last year. I have a very high respect for him. We always worked together in the interest of the fishermen. We may have argued about different points but he was always available to meet and talk with me and discuss the fishermen's problems. Now that he has been promoted to the Department of Foreign Affairs I hope he will be given the portfolio dealing with the problems of Northern Ireland. As Minister for Foreign Affairs he will create a charming image for the Irish people; he certainly deserves that name. He is going to need all his skills and charm when he meets the politicians from Northern Ireland.

One of the faults in the past as far as both sides of this House are concerned is that they only tried to communicate with the SDLP and those on the Nationalist side in Northern Ireland. I was delighted to hear the Taoiseach say recently that he would meet any politicians and I hope that every politician, regardless of political belief and tradition, in Northern Ireland, will take him up on this, show the hand of friendship and see what common avenues there are to discuss. As regards Ian Paisley, I never thought his statements made sense but it is high time that we all woke up in this country and even he must be looked at seriously. In the European elections he got the largest vote of any politician in any part of this land.

Where we have two extreme people, one in the North and the other in the South, maybe Deputy Lenihan is the man that can bind these people together. Our first job is to put out feelers to the Unionists, the Democratic Unionists, the Alliance Party, the SDLP and the nationalist population and try to help by discussing the common avenues we can explore together. The vast majority of the people in the North and the South are sick and tired of the bombings the shootings and the troubles. The politicians in the North and South must get together eventually to explore the areas we have in common.

One thing we have in common is the EEC. The three elected representatives from the North, Mr. John Hume, Mr. Taylor and Mr. Ian Paisley know full well that their voices are very small in the EEC and that if they were combined with the total Irish voice their case would be much stronger. There is no reason why Northern Ireland should not get regional and social grants directly from the EEC instead of this money being paid to Britain and then going North. Maybe Deputy Lenihan can develop this aspect of unity. Whatever one can say about him he has a tremendous ability to bring people together. Perhaps Deputy Lenihan could get the Irish EEC politicians on both sides of the Border to come together and look for an Irish regional and social fund. After all people in the North would be much better off financially if this were the case.

Another area where we could come together is on tourism. We had a disastrous tourist season last year, particularly in the South where we had the postal strike, no phones, no petrol, no tourist bookings and we also had a few terrible bombings which chased any would-be tourists away. Together both North and South could advertise abroad in this area. The fields of Antrim are no greener than the fields of Cork and the fields in Waterford are no greener than those in Derry. Our Minister for tourism and a representative from the tourist board in Northern Ireland should get together to discuss joint expenditure on advertising and so on.

In relation to agriculture there is no reason why we cannot promote Irish products abroad under a common agricultural name. There is no reason why cattle going abroad through the North of Ireland cannot be checked for disease at the ports rather than at the Border. There are many areas common to North and South that can be developed.

I was delighted to hear Mr. Ian Paisley say that he would not mind meeting Deputy Charles Haughey because at least they would have something in common to talk about. I hope in the next two-and-a-half years all the leaders in the North and the Government and the Opposition sides here will come together to discuss matters of common interest.

In talking about Northern Ireland there is a big question mark now about my fellow Deputy from Donegal, Deputy Blaney. As the House and Fianna Fáil know, Deputy Blaney was always——

We cannot on this debate discuss any individual Deputy. We are dealing with the Cabinet and nothing else. It would not be proper in this debate. The Deputy will have an opportunity later.

Talking about Northern Ireland we must also remember the other element in this House and we must try to bring that side with us. That is not for the Opposition to do. It is up to Fianna Fáil to mend the fences. We should work on the common policies that we all believe in. The Minister for Foreign Affairs should bear the common things in mind. It is easy for Deputies who live 100 miles from the Border to rant and rave about a Thirty-two county Ireland, about the Brits leaving the country immediately and about taking over the Six Counties, but the realistic position is that we will not have a Thirty-two county Ireland under the one Parliament at least during my lifetime. Some of these Deputies who speak thus have never been across the Border and the quicker they learn the truth about it the better so that they will not lure people by talk about a Thirty-two county Ireland under one Parliament, a thing which will not happen during my lifetime.

I can foresee and would welcome some kind of a Parliament in Northern Ireland that would discuss with our Parliament the common portfolios such as the EEC, foreign affairs, tourism and perhaps transport. These portfolios could be amalgamated and people from both sides of the Border could work on them together. In relation to security, finance, the Army and the Garda, I cannot see much co-operation taking place during my lifetime at least.

I may be different from some people in the House but I welcome the change that has taken place because this gamble might pay off economically. We cannot be much worse off than we are at present. It might pay off because we have hard liners on each side of the Border who are prepared to meet each other. Certainly this is the first time since I have come into this House I have heard such statements, where at least they are prepared to meet. We should give them a chance and encourage them to meet.

We have had a change and let us hope it is a change for the better. Five Ministers retained their portfolios, five Ministers had theirs changed and we have five new Ministers. Nobody can say there has not been a shake-up, because the dice have been well and truly shaken.

I welcome a Minister to deal with tourism and energy, and particularly tourism. A few weeks ago I said in this House it was a pity we did not have a Minister in charge of tourism, one of our biggest industries. Last year was disastrous particularly for the small and medium-sized hoteliers. Our figures fell drastically last year but I am afraid this year—the small and medium-sized hotels may not be able to find the money to carry out renovations. I know a hotelier who went to his bank looking for a loan of £50,000. His account was clear. He did not owe a penny. His hotel was worth about £500,000. The bank manager told him the Central Bank would not allow them lend money for hotel extensions and renovations. He applied to another bank and got the same reply.

The Minister's first priority for the tourist trade is to see that credit restrictions are relaxed for the hotel industry. I am afraid that next year many of these hotels may not be able to offer as good accommodation as they offered last year because they cannot get the money to carry out renovations. I wonder how many people realise there is no money available from banks for renovations or extensions in the hotel trade because of the guidelines laid down by the Central Bank? This is very serious for the hotel industry. I hope note will be taken of it and that the credit restrictions will be lifted.

Farmers get money from banks because it is said they are engaged in industry. The tourist trade is one of our best industries because our many visitors spend a lot of money. This is as good as exporting goods.

The board are spending too much on administration. A fairly large hotelier carried out renovations costing in the region of £250,000 and the total grant got was £21,000. When one reads the booklets one is told one can get a grant of up to £40,000 from the board. The fact is that this money is not being utilised properly. The board will have to change their attitude and ensure that more money is spent where hoteliers are willing to invest substantial sums. In this city £10 million is being spent extending an hotel——

The Deputy is going into great detail on matters which would be more appropriate to the Estimate. We are dealing with the fitness of a number of people to form the Cabinet.

The point I am making is that Deputy Colley is now Minister for Tourism and Energy and I am pointing out what I see wrong with the tourist industry. The Minister should look at the proper grading of hotels. Some hotels have not been regraded in the last five or ten years while others have been regraded every year.

I welcome the Department of Energy. What is needed at this time is a decision on what we are going to do about nuclear power. Do we intend building nuclear power stations? Let us face this crucial issue once and for all and get it cleared away. Some people are saying we are and some are saying we are not, and at the same time, we are spending billions of pounds bringing oil from places as far away as South America.

A decision has to be made about mining uranium. If there are finds, will the Minister allow these people to mine uranium for the nuclear stations? As far as tourism and energy are concerned I will expect new energy to be put into this Department and that new grants will be made available to the hotel industry.

Up to a year ago I had the pleasure of being spokesman for Defence. Naturally I was dealing a lot with Deputy Molloy, ex-Minister for Defence. I was very disappointed yesterday to see that he was not given a portfolio. He is a young, capable man. He has not been given a portfolio, not because he was not capable but as far as the new Taoiseach was concerned, the knives were out to gut some of the people who came out strongly against him. The one person I felt very sorry for yesterday was Deputy Molloy. He did his best and was very sincere about his job. I thank him for his co-operation when I was spokesman for Defence.

I have nothing against Deputy Faulkner. He is also an Ulsterman and, in the past, was Minister for Communications. I like him as a person but he has been shoved into Defence because this Government do not want to know anything about defence. They think the Northern Ireland troubles will subside and maybe they can save money in that Department. That is a pity. When a person like Deputy Faulkner was offered Defence he should have had the guts to refuse it. What Defence needs is a young, dynamic man like Deputy Molloy. I am disappointed he lost his ministry.

Deputy O'Malley retains Industry and Commerce and nobody can say he does not deserve it. He is probably one of the most capable Ministers in the House. He has proved he is a hard-worker, bright, capable and smart. It would be a pity to see him being shifted. Perhaps he has one fault and that is that he does not understand that places like the northwest, particularly Donegal and Leitrim, are not getting their fair share of industry. Deputy O'Malley should visit some of the poorer regions and try to diversify and bring more industries to these areas rather than bringing 4,000 jobs a week to his native Limerick, not saying that Dublin or Limerick do not need industries. It is sad for me to travel through the country and see the poorer areas undeveloped. The Minister should see to it that these areas are developed.

Deputy Collins was left in Justice. Everybody thought he would have been moved to some other portfolio. I am not saying he has not done a good job; I would hate to say that he has done a good job. He has flair and that could be seen in some other portfolio. He is stuck with Justice and is lucky not to have been axed as Deputy Molloy was. I would have liked to have seen a change. Security is not as tight as it was under the last Coalition Government. Border posts have been done away with and spot checks have been reintroduced. The Garda have been very lucky in the past few months when they had two good spot checks. In one instance it was the Lord Mountbatten murderers that were brought to justice and in the other case it was two members of the UDA coming down from Northern Ireland. We are not doing enough of this kind of work. More money should be spent on cars and there should be more spot checks. Security in the North is not as tight as it used to be. If we are serious about stopping the barbaric acts which are taking place we must have more spot checks.

It is crazy that I can travel from Dublin to Donegal and am seldom stopped not just because I am a Deputy but because the spot checks are not being carried out. The Minister should reconsider his policy and see that at least on this side the Border is sealed and there is no illicit trade one way or the other.

It is a change for Deputy O'Kennedy and one may say that he has been paid for his vote. I am sure that sentence has been used many times——

The allegation should not be made that any Deputy was paid for his vote. The Deputy should withdraw that.

I withdraw it. Deputy O'Kennedy is being changed from the Department of Foreign Affairs to the Department of Finance. Perhaps he likes the thought of Finance today. How will this man feel in two-and-a-half year's time? Probably the dodgiest Ministry at present is that of Finance. We have seen, particularly in the last 18 months, how the economy of this great country of ours has started to go down. We can say that X number of people are employed but also that X number of people are unemployed. We will need some kind of industrial rationalisation to ensure that strikes are stopped. Some kind of agreement between the unions, workers, management and Government will have to be brought into operation. Unless there is this kind of industrial get together, not just Fianna Fáil but the country is in trouble and particularly Deputy Michael O'Kennedy, Minister for Finance, responsible for development and economic growth. I wish him the best of luck because he will need it. We wish him well but we will be back to talk to him over the next two-and-a-half years week in week out and will be asking him how his economic development is progressing.

The next person I should like to speak about is my good friend Deputy Barrett, a Clareman, the land of my heart. He has done a good job and I am delighted to see him still in Environment. I should like to say to him to build more houses, because people are crying out for them. I am not talking about the middle income or higher groups but about urban houses, council houses and so on. The poorer section of the community, particularly in Leitrim and Donegal, are not being catered for. The Minister should make one change and see that more money is given to housing. There is nothing worse for any Deputy than to interview a constituent and find that he is living in a caravan with five or six children and does not have a decent roof over his head. No matter how much disablement money, unemployment money and so on we give them, they are still living in poverty if they do not have a roof over their heads. I wish him the best of luck and am glad that Clare is represented the way it should be.

Deputy Fitzgerald has been left in Labour. I have nothing against him personally but he is probably the one man who has let the side down as far as industrial relations are concerned. He has not dealt with strikes and so on and I am disappointed that he has not been changed and that somebody with more authority and charm, who could bring these people together, was not appointed to this Department. Something must be done regarding strikes. It is very easy for the Opposition to put questions about different strikes to the Government but it is in all our interests that the industrial side of the nation is happy and that we do not lose mandays or manhours due to strikes and due to lack of policy as far as the Government are concerned. It is not in anybody's interest and I hope that the new Taoiseach will tell the Minister it is high time he woke up and got the industrial side of the country working properly.

Deputy Wilson has been left in Education. He is arrogant, but a good Minister for Education. He had done his best and is not in the same league as Dick Burke was when he was Minister for Education. He should be less arrogant and listen more to the problems, particularly in rural Ireland. These problems include small, bad schools, teacher numbers and school transport in barren areas, where children have to walk up to three miles over bad terrain through wind, rain and snow. Deputy Wilson, who is from Cavan, does not realise the hardship that a lot of these children have to go through.

Deputy MacSharry is in Agriculture and I wish him, my nextdoor neighbour, the best of luck. I am delighted that a change has been in Agriculture. Cattle prices are very bad at present and we have mountains of this and that lying in the EEC. It is wrong that these mountains are allowed nearly to rot while there are starving millions in the Third World. Much of these mountains could be given to these people. For example, we have collected fortunes in this country for Cambodia in the last few months—quite rightly—but if that money had been sent from the EEC or if the EEC had matched it £ for £ perhaps we could have some kind of food programme in that way. Perhaps the EEC would give £ for £ with every other Government in the world to help the starving millions.

When I visited Thailand in April I saw the terrible conditions in which people live in refugee camps. Any Deputy or Minister or any journalist should, if he gets a chance, visit Thailand and see for himself the terrible conditions that exist. We hear about starvation but we do not realise what it really means especially when children are involved. You see volunteer nurses from Norway, from England and from Ireland and they are doing their best under very difficult conditions. Many volunteers who go to areas like Cambodia and Thailand have contracted different tropical diseases such as malaria. These people are doing their part in politics abroad. Perhaps the politicians at home do not realise the hardship they are enduring.

I am delighted to see Deputy Woods becoming a Minister. He has always struck me as being one of the brightest Fianna Fáil backbenchers. He now has his chance. Deputy Reynolds is to be Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, a post that should suit a businessman, something in his own line, ensuring that phones are supplied, getting post delivered on time and seeing that we have proper communications. I wish him the best of luck and I hope he does well.

I come now to the Department of the Gaeltacht. I represent the Gaeltacht area with the largest population. There are more people living in the Donegal Gaeltacht than in any other Gaeltacht. For the past two-and-a-half years Deputy Gallagher has been Minister. I like him personally and I have nothing to say to him but he has done very little for the Gaeltacht. Perhaps the money was not available; perhaps the Minister for Finance did not give him the money he should have got but very little new industry has been brought, certainly into my area of the Gaeltacht during Deputy Gallagher's time in office. There is no use in appointing a Minister unless he is given adequate funds to ensure that his Department is properly serviced.

It was interesting to read in this morning's papers that the new Minister for the Gaeltacht, Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn, thought she would like to see a bilingual Ireland. I take it she means that every Irishman, North and South, should be able to speak Irish and English. Or, does she mean that every Irishman should be able to speak two languages—German, French and English perhaps? If she means that every Irishman should speak two languages I would not agree with her. We have two traditions in the country, two types of State, and if we are serious about bringing the North and South together we should be trying to get people to speak Irish. We should be encouraging them to speak Irish but we should not be ramming it down their throats that they have to speak Irish.

This week in the Gaeltacht areas we have the Údarás na Gaeltachta election to nominate seven people to the board of Gaeltacht Éireann. In travelling through my own Gaeltacht area it was interesting to note that about one-third of it was English-speaking. Most of the people in that area were speaking English and could not speak Irish—I do not say they should be outside the Gaeltacht. The important thing, as I see it, is to consider oneself first as an Irishman whether you speak English or Irish.

When I put down questions in English, this business of Deputy Geoghegan-Quinn and others answering me in Irish is just trying to ram the Irish language down my throat, and that I will not tolerate. I have a limited amount of Irish and for that I make no apologies because I was educated in Northern Ireland. I speak English and other languages and if I wanted to do it, it would be the simplest thing in the world to learn Irish but when Deputy Geoghegan-Quinn and other Ministers talk of being bilingual they should remember that there are two traditions—I am not talking for myself only—in this country and we should respect the views of each.

I like nothing better than the Irish tradition and there is nowhere I like better to be than in my adopted County Clare, to visit the traditional singing centres, for example, in pubs around Dublin and—as the Minister knows very well—Kilfenora, Ennistymon and areas like that. I love the Irish tradition. When the new Taoiseach was being interviewed he spoke about two traditions in the North; he spoke of the folklore in Northern Ireland, probably one of the finest areas for folklore in the country. Collecting this and getting people to love Irish music and songs and, for anybody who wants it, the Irish language—that is the type of bringing together that we need. I hope the Taoiseach will meet all shades of opinion, all creeds and classes of politicians in the next two-and-a-half years and forget about old political divides.

I am prepared to give this Government the next two years to prove themselves. I shall certainly criticise them if I think they are going wrong and I shall not be afraid to do so. Irish people are, I think, at present prepared to accept this tremendous gamble that is taking place. It is a terrible gamble; that is the only word to describe it. The people will judge Fianna Fáil in two-and-a-half years' time and if the Government do not get the economy moving properly, give the proper government which Irish people deserve, if they do not deliver the goods—forgetting the manifesto which can now be thrown in the fire; we have a new team; we are living in a new era—my party can offer a real alternative at the next election under Deputy Garret FitzGerald.

Debate adjourned.
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