Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Dec 1979

Vol. 317 No. 9

Supplementary Estimates, 1979. - Vote 48: Foreign Affairs.

Minister for Finance (Mr. O'Kennedy)

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £269,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December 1979, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, and of certain services administered by that Office, including certain grants-in-aid.

The Supplementary Estimate is required to meet additional expenditure arising on three existing subheads in the Vote—for salaries, travel and incidental expenses and for the grant-in-aid for cultural relations with other countries. The amount sought under these three subheads is partly offset by an anticipated increase in receipts under appropriations-in-aid.

The increase required for the salaries subhead arises from the award of special salary increases to the civil service generally and from the national understanding for which no provision was made when the Estimate was being prepared last year. The anticipated excess of £31,000 on the subhead for travel and incidental expenses is due to the increased costs of the services provided for in this subhead because of our Presidency of the European Communities. This increase is very marginal and represents only a slight additional provision over the original Estimate.

The additional £60,000 proposed for the grant-in-aid for cultural relations is required to enable a contribution of that amount to be made to finance a festival of the Arts of Ireland which is to take place in London in February and March next year.

"A Sense of Ireland", as this festival is called, is one of the best possible ways of showing aspects of the arts and culture of this country, north and south, which seldom get headlines. It will comprise the largest number of Irish artistic events ever held simultaneously outside of Ireland—over 90 exhibitions, performances of classical, traditional and modern music, theatre, ballet, readings by Irish writers, showings of Irish films, lectures and seminars with participants from both the Republic and Northern Ireland, at over 40 London venues. It is estimated that it will cost about £290,000. The Government enthusiastically endorse the festival, which we see as having a very special importance for Anglo-Irish relations as a whole. We therefore propose to make a direct contribution of £110,000 towards the costs. Additional assistance is being given by semi-State bodies. The Arts Council of Northern Ireland and other bodies as well as individuals in the North are also co-operating fully in the arrangements. The organisers are actively seeking support from potential private and commercial sponsors in both Ireland and Britain and I understand that this amounts to about £60,000 at present.

Since most of the private sponsorship will not materialise until next year the continuation of the practical arrangements for the festival—for example, reservation of venues, preparation of publicity material and catalogues—requires funding from the Exchequer and it is estimated that £60,000 will be required by the end of this year. The balance of the official contribution will be included in the Estimate for 1980.

The additional sum required for the three expenditure subheads already referred to will be offset to the extent of £100,000 because of additional receipts arising from consular services, mainly passport fees. It is not possible to forecast with any great accuracy the demand for passports but on the basis of passport issues so far this year it appears that the receipts have been underestimated to the extent of £100,000.

Mr. Bruton

There is a provision here for an increase in the amount for salaries. It should be noted that this is common to all Supplementary Estimates. Approximately 80 per cent of the expenditure of the Department of Foreign Affairs is represented by salaries. Since the Government came into office the amount provided by the Exchequer for salaries in the Department of Foreign Affairs has increased by about 47 per cent, that is 11 per cent faster than the rate of increase in the GNP in the same period. Staff salaries in the Department of Foreign Affairs, as in every other aspect of Government activity, must be paid for out of the GNP. If there is a rate of increase in staff costs in excess of the GNP this is a long run trend which cannot be sustained.

The situation in the Department of Foreign Affairs is by no means the worst. There are other Departments where the increase in staff costs has exceeded the rate of increase in GNP by a far greater amount. I believe that any excess must be a cause for concern because it is an indication that as far as staff costs are concerned we are tending to live more beyond our means than we were. This is at a time when the Government had their declared objective of a reduction in the reliance by the State on borrowing. The increase in staff costs in excess of the GNP should, therefore, be noted. It should also be noted on this occasion that the original Estimate at the beginning of the year has proved to be insufficient and more money has had to be sought for staff costs this year.

I recognise that the work of the Department of Foreign Affairs to a very great degree is to do with personal and human relations and that staff is of the essence in foreign affairs activities. I would like to pay a tribute to the work of our diplomatic representatives abroad. I have had many occasions in different parts of the world to come into contact with the officials who represent this country often in difficult and unseasonable climates. They do this with great integrity and intelligence and nothing I have said in relation to the general issue of staff costs should be interpreted as any reflection on the officials, for whom I have the greatest regard.

I would like to say a few words about the provision relating to cultural relations with other countries. I have one point of view, which may appear to be a small one, but it is one which I believe in very strongly and which I put to the Minister on a previous occasion. I take this occasion also to ask if his successor will consider the promotion of cultural relations between this country and the province of Newfoundland in Canada? I am sure that Deputy Deasy is aware that Newfoundland has the closest ethnic relations with Ireland of any part of the world and that even includes the parts of Britain which have a very large Irish population. There are parts of Newfoundland which I have visited which are wholly Irish. Even though the ancestors of those people went to Newfoundland before the Act of Union they still have a mode of speech which is recognisably Irish. They have preserved many aspects of Irish culture which we have lost here. One can still find in Newfoundland the house parties where people sing, tell stories and so forth, a practice which was common here 100 years ago but is not, for various reasons, common here now. This is a direct descent from the traditions which those people's ancestors left behind in Ireland in the latter part of the eighteenth century. There is a very rich area of fruitful cultural co-operation between Ireland and that part of Canada. I realise that it is not possible for our Government to deal directly with the provincial government of Newfoundland because that government is not a sovereign one and they must deal through the Canadian Government in Ottawa.

More than 18 months ago, I raised this matter and at that time the Minister indicated his sympathy with the general idea. Could he now give the House some report about what has happened in the meantime since he gave these favourable indications of interest in the matter? Could the Minister also give an indication of his plans in relation to the negotiations for further cultural agreements? There is a cultural agreement with France which has been in being for a long time and cultural agreements with practically all the countries of the EEC are in process of negotiation. Cultural agreements are a valuable asset for any country in promoting understanding. My only worry is that if we engage in too many cultural agreements a dilution of effect will occur if the funds are not increased to a sufficient degree. I note that there are some increases provided here but if we move from having, for instance, as has been the case until very recently, only one cultural agreement, namely, with France——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair points out to the Deputy that the £60,000 involved in this Supplementary Estimate refers only to one grant-in-aid for one festival. However, I shall let the Deputy continue.

Mr. Bruton

That may be the case, but it is not stated in the Estimate document.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It is stated in the Minister's brief.

Mr. Bruton

The Minister's brief is the Minister's brief and has no more status than has my speech. The determinate of relevance is what appears in the Estimate document. There is nothing in that which constrains the debate and, with respect, I am entitled to speak about matter germane to what is in the Estimate document.

If we seek to have, say, six, seven or ten cultural agreements and increase the funds only twice, obviously the amount available for the individual agreements will be less than that available for the first agreement with France, which was provided with a certain amount of money. There will also be a dilution of effect in that the cultural agreements and the links with particular countries will not be felt as strongly as they have been in the past. In my limited experience of the matter cultural agreements with other countries tend to reach only a certain section of the community, namely, the well-educated, they are the people who tend to benefit. Most of the money is spent in personnel exchange which, because of the qualifications required to participate is confined to the well-educated. Education is a privilege and should one add privilege to privilege?

There should be far greater emphasis in cultural exchange on the area of sport. Sport is open to everyone. It is a cultural activity which is not confined to people who have a particular educational qualification. When I speak of sporting exchange, I am not talking of exchange of people of international standard. I am thinking, for instance, of the exchange of young athletes, or young people who may not necessarily have a high level of sporting competence but represent a particular part, say, of the city of Dublin which is not as well-endowed financially as are other parts of the city. Cultural moneys should be used to provide exchanges between, perhaps, youngsters from the north centre city area of Dublin—teams of young football players benefiting from cultural agreements, in being allowed to travel to play in games with other people in other parts of Europe. In terms of social justice and in regard to the overall objects of a cultural agreement, which is to promote understanding, the returns there would be as great as, if not greater, than those which might obtain from providing a university professor with an opportunity of spending a year away from his students in some polite discussion in a foreign language with colleagues in another university. The multiplier effect there would not, in my view, be any greater, and would perhaps be less great, than the multiplier effect from sending a football team from Seán MacDermott Street to play in Paris for a few days and return home. I sincerely believe that that would be a better use of the money in many cases. This aspect has been neglected in the past.

Regarding the cultural agreement with France, I sought to promote exchange in sport in a small way, while I was Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education. I did not get as far as I should have liked, for a variety of reasons—not all of which were other people's faults. However, I made some progress. I set up structures to form a special committee to devise the particular projects for sporting exchange within the country of the agreement. I should like to know what has happened in that respect, and, also, if such exchange arrangements will be made in respect of the new cultural agreements which are being entered into.

In relation to subhead I, in which there has been an increase in the appropriation-in-aid for passports, what progress, if any, has been made, in relation to the idea of a European passport? When the Minister came to office in 1977 I understand that there were proposals then in being for having a European passport which would enable people to move throughout Europe and be represented on a European basis. This passport would be particularly beneficial in the light of the entry into the Community of two of the countries to which most Irish people go on holidays, namely, Spain and Greece. Passports for entry and any provisions which would reduce the formalities involved in our people going on holidays should be negotiated.

I regret that there is no provision in this Supplementary Estimate for additional relief to Kampuchea. We are all aware of the very serious situation there and a separate subhead should be set up in the Estimate for that purpose. I would also like if the Minister would give some indication of his long term plans for the admission of more Vietnamese refugees.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It does not arise on this Supplementary Estimate. All we can deal with are the three headings under the Supplementary Estimate. If the Chair were to allow the Deputy to raise other matters, he would have to provide the same concession to everybody else; and the long-standing rule of the Chair is that Deputies cannot depart from the items in the Supplementary Estimate. As I said on the last day, when part of the sum is obtained by savings on certain subheads in the original Vote, such subheads are not open to debate.

Mr. Bruton

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle changed that ruling.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I did not agree with that ruling, but there are about 15 rulings on it down the years.

Mr. Bruton

Under salaries, wages and allowances and travel expenses, I will make one or two points in relation to our representation abroad. I would like to know something about the provision of diplomatic representation in China. I understand that our embassy there is operating from an hotel room, and that is not satisfactory. I understand that the Chinese authorities were anxious that we established our embassy there, that when the people arrived they had to operate from an hotel room and are still doing so. Has the Minister made any representations to the authorities there to improve that situation? I would also like to know if there are plans for the opening of a Chinese Embassy here? In relation to our representation in eastern bloc countries, I have expressed concern about sentences meted out for religious activities to people in Rumania and Czechoslovakia.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That does not arise either.

Mr. Bruton

It arises in the sense that I would like the Minister to use our representation in those countries, as this is a serious matter——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I accept that it is a serious matter, but every matter would be a serious matter if the Deputy wished to raise it. We cannot raise other matters on salaries and wages and that is a ruling that has been here for generations.

Mr. Bruton

The Chair is doing his job well.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am thinking of everybody else who will follow the Deputy.

Mr. Bruton

Those were the main points I wished to make. I hope that the new Minister for Foreign Affairs will find his office satisfactory and will do his job.

Mr. Quinn

The House is quite familiar with the Labour Party's Foreign Affairs matters on the general range of policy, so I propose to confine myself as tightly as possible to the Supplementary Estimate. The items which focus certain attention on the activities of this House this morning relate to the extra moneys required for the grant in aid for cultural relations. I must declare some kind of personal interest since the firm in which I am a partner will participate in the exhibition in London next year, which we regard as a major event. I am pleased that the Government have responded in this way.

I recently had contact with Irish people from Britain, from every sphere of life, and the stories they told of the new level of prejudice and discrimination against Irish people in Britain are, to say the least, disturbing. Any effort or undertaking by this State to remedy the situation will be welcomed. In an article written by Donal MacAmhlaigh in last Saturday's Irish Times about being Irish in Britain there is evident a disturbing breakdown in the relationship and the regard that the British people have for Irish people, to the extent that some people have left Britain as they no longer feel welcome because of recent events in this land.

A lot of this has been fostered and certainly was not discouraged by responsible authorities in the UK. I hope that within the confines of diplomacy the Department of Foreign Affairs, having regard to the workings of diplomacy, will recognise that this is a growing problem. Irish people in Britain are made to feel decidedly uncomfortable just because they are Irish, even those who have been there for many years. The deterioration in traditional interpersonal relationships of this kind is extremely disturbing. The "paddy" joke is no longer a joke; it is denigration of an entire nation of people, North and South. Perhaps Deputy Harte with his unique insight into Northern Ireland, may be able to add a dimension of this phenomenon.

This disturbs the Labour Party because it attacks one of the fundamental principles of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which is a respect for the intrinsic dignity of individuals, of nations and of cultures. The last part of the last century saw an outburst of Punch-type anti-Irish cartoons with all their grotesque symbolic imagry. I am not exaggerating when I say there is an element, albeit a more sophisticated element, of such a prejudice creeping back into Anglo-Irish relations. I regret to have to say, because I have many personal and family connections with citizens of the UK, that I am directly aware, personally and politically, of a deterioration in our relationship.

There are far too many Irish people living in Britain with regular contact with Ireland who for reasons of choice, but originally for reasons of necessity, sought economic refuge in Britain because of our failure to provide them with a living here. We have an obligation to rectify the position to the extent that we can counteract some of the very negative and highly racist anti-Irish imagry that is being allowed to be portrayed in the British media.

The Labour Party always welcome expenditure on cultural relations because it is one way in which knowledge of each other can be fostered and developed. The Sense of Ireland Exhibition will be a major festival, unprecedented in the scale of its undertaking, initiated largely by voluntary effort outside the State and semi-State sector. But, to give credit to the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, he responded to it quite generously. I hope that in allocating this sum of money due regard will be had to the need for positive advance publicity and that the whole area of public relations will be professionally developed to counteract some of the negative publicity that is forcing decent Irish families out of areas and districts of Britain because of the constant anti-Irish feeling that regrettably has surfaced in the British media.

We all know some of the reasons for that anti-Irish feeling and they are deplored by all sides of this House. The effects are suffered by people in Britain who regard themselves as Irish. If this exhibition does anything, it should reaffirm their faith and confidence in this country and themselves. More important, it should aim at reducing some of the ignorance and lack of understanding that exists in too many British quarters.

The Irish people in Britain are not the only cultural group who suffer from a certain degree of discrimination but if the same degree of harassment and discrimination was expressed to people from the Indian sub-continent, from Jamaica or the West Indies generally, there would be an outcry because of the anti-social and socially divisive impact of such outbursts.

The Sense of Ireland Exhibition is a positive step. I hope it will not be confined to the Irish community in Britain but that extra special efforts will be made to reach other members of the British community so that they will get a sense of modern Ireland and have their distortions and prejudices of an Ireland that is thankfully long since gone replaced by an image of a modern and sensitive State that is attempting to cope with the 20th century with energy, enthusiasm and self-confidence, qualities which appear to be sadly lacking in Britain. On that subhead the Labour Party welcome this expenditure but question whether it is adequate. We hope sufficient funds will be made available in the areas of advance publicity and in public relations generally to meet the objectives to which I referred.

On the question of cultural relations generally reference was made to bilateral cultural arrangements with member states of the EEC. Some agreements have recently been confirmed by the Department, in addition to the long standing agreement we had with the Republic of France. This is not the time or the place for the Minister to attempt reply because it is to early for any kind of assessment. With the new Fianna Fáil administration, I hope clarification will be made at an early date between what I regard as the split responsibilities for culture within the present administration and structure, between the Department of the Taoiseach and the Arts Council and the Cultural Relations Committee of Foreign Affairs. The more cultural relations agreements we have the more pressure will on those responsible for their administration. A very clear line of communication should be established and this House should be reported to regularly on the progress of these agreements, an assessment of how effective they are in achieving the diplomatic objectives set for such agreements and attempting to ensure that the mutual bilateral contact that should flow from these agreements will filter its way across the Community and encourage such things as the twinning of cities with realistic funds, the visitation of groups from one city to another, of a cultural or sporting group with another or from one region of a country to a parallel region in another country. Since the Minister was involved in his former capacity in finalising some of these agreements he might report to the House on the procedures for assessment on the effectiveness of these agreements.

The Labour Party are concerned about salaries and staff relations generally. We want to ensure that the personnel requirements for both our diplomats and their families are adequately measured and sympathetically responded to. There has been a rapid increase in the number of diplomatic missions abroad. Some diplomats were forced to live and operate out of an hotel room, and sometimes out of a suitcase. Regrettably our capacity to respond through the Office of Public Works is not as quick as this House would like. We suffer from the same lack of quick response in this building. We at least have alternatives but for a diplomat who is forced to live in an hotel—as has happened in Greece who was forced to operate from the Hilton Hotel for just under one year—it is not a satisfactory arrangement. Some of the delays are understandable because they may be outside the control of the people directly involved but the end result is that they are counterproductive to our diplomatic efforts overseas.

The standard of accommodation for new missions in countries with whose culture we are not familiar, where only a few of our diplomats know the local language and where their families would find it difficult to operate and function reasonably normally, should be very high and extra attention should be given to these matters by the Department of Foreign Affairs. This is a growing problem and it will not get any easier. In all probability it is likely to get worse.

The pressures on modern families, in terms of husband and wife relationships and relationships between parents and children, are different from those that existed ten or 15 years ago. This is a reality we must all recognise. This is a reality that we, as politicians with unsocial working hours, recognise in our own personal lives and it is no different for diplomats stationed in countries which are not easily understood in cultural terms.

For people who have been stationed abroad and who return there should be more understanding of the pressures they have undergone. The Department of Foreign Affairs should be able to respond with the degree of autonomy they have not yet obtained from the Department of the Public Service. Conditions of civil servants in the Department of Foreign Affairs are different from every other Department. The present Minister for Finance with his insight into those pressures will be in a position to respond and say that the problems and working conditions of diplomats are sui generis compared to those of other civil servants. Potential claims for relatively and comparability will not and should not arise and the hand of the Department of Foreign Affairs should be free in responding to the problems, pressures and difficulties that have, and will arise.

I do not think anybody in this House would disagree with that response because our diplomats are Ireland overseas. We owe it to those people and their families to get them the best possible conditions to ensure that the task which they were sent out to do can be done without disruption of their family lives and their own sense of who they are and their well-being.

This is a comparatively small Supplementary Estimate in addition to the major Estimate we have already discussed. Perhaps the Minister for Finance who is here on behalf of the Minister for Foreign Affairs will be able to respond to the points I have made if such information is available to him or will make provision in future for clarification of the points I raised.

Debate adjourned.