It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 3, 12, 13 (resumed), 14, (resumed), 15, 16, 17, 4, 5, 18, 19 and 6. By agreement the Supplementary Estimate for Higher Education will be taken without debate.
Order of Business.
A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I wish to ask that you reconsider a decision you have given about a question which was ruled out of order in view of the fact that I have submitted to you ten precedents for queries which were allowed concerning possible prosecutions, that four of them were specifically based on media reports and that in eight of these cases the Minister replied in detail.
Would Deputy FitzGerald accept——
These include at least one question since the Director of Public Prosecutions was appointed.
Would Deputy FitzGerald accept that he cannot raise a matter of this kind in this way? The rulings of the Chair cannot be debated in the House. It would make a complete farce of the rulings of the Chair if the Deputy could come in to debate them in the House.
I simply asked that the Leas-Cheann Comhairle reconsider his decision in view of the ten precedents I have submitted to him on the basis of which there can be no grounds for ruling this question out of order.
Two questions were ruled out of order under Standing Orders Nos. 32 and 33. There the matter ends. The rulings of the Chair cannot be questioned in the House. It would be impossible to carry on the business of the House if the rulings of the Chair were to be questioned in the House.
It is possible that precedents are not followed and are ignored when convenient.
There are numerous other precedents. Deputy FitzGerald, please. Does Deputy Horgan wish to raise some other matter?
I do indeed. A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, could you tell me the exact reason you ruled out of order my question to the Taoiseach asking him, as a service to the House and especially to his backbenchers in the single channel areas, to circulate the full text of the "Panorama" interview that he gave?
When any question is ever ruled out of order the Chair conveys the reasons to the Deputy and there it ends. Does Deputy Harte wish to raise a matter?
On the question of the ruling on Deputy Keating and my question being out of order, to which Deputy FitzGerald has referred, in regard to the Magill articles, do you not think, Sir, in the interests of public disquiet that these questions should be allowed in view of the evidence placed before you?
The Chair can only rule under existing Standing Orders. As I have already said, the Chair's rulings cannot be debated in the House.
It is not a question of debating; it is a question of asking the Chair to reconsider his ruling when there has been ample evidence placed before him that there has been precedent for this ten times over the last ten years.
The Chair could produce many precedents both ways. Please, Deputy.
It can be alleged that there is a conspiracy of silence here which can either be fair or unfair.
The Deputy is making charges he should not make. We shall proceed to item No. 3.
I am saying that——
A garda was murdered by an illegally imported weapon. That is quite true.
Deputy L'Estrange should not start. We are moving on to item no. 3.
In relation to the questions ruled out of order by you, may I ask was that decision made entirely by yourself?
That is the sort of allegation that should not be made. The Chair, whether it be the Ceann Comhairle or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, is completely responsible for questions and rulings on questions, and no allegations should be made against officials of the House.
With due respect, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, there was no allegation made.
Does Deputy Browne wish to raise some matter?
I simply asked a question. If the Chair wants to take an allegation out of that, that is his problem.
Some very serious charges have been made against Members of this House. I am asking a question——
Deputy, I have given a ruling. The Chair has already ruled that we are not going to debate matters that were ruled on by the Chair in the House.
——which cannot be answered anywhere else except in this House. So I am asking the Leas-Cheann Comhairle——
Deputy Browne will not question the rulings of the Chair.
——will it be permissible to raise this subject in the course of the Adjournment Debate?
The Chair will deal with what is relevant to that debate when that debate arises.
The Chair has ruled that anything is relevant to that debate and has ruled out of order a discussion on the economy, so we know the ruling about that.
Deputy FitzGerald is the last man who should make that charge against the Chair. The ruling given last week was given under Standing Order No. 48. The Chair has taken a lot of stick on that ruling. The Deputy should study the Standing Order and see what it says, when we will see who is right or wrong.
(Interruptions.)
Item No. 3, motion relating to sittings and business this week.
On a point of order, I was merely relating to the House the ruling you had given that anything could be discussed on the Adjournment Debate. I take it the Chair is not going back on that ruling?
The Chair has called item No. 3. Item No. 3.