andMr. Boland asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the number of Border overflights that have taken place in each quarter since the new arrangements on Border overflights were reached by his predecessor and the British Prime Minister. Mrs. Thatcher, distinguishing between overflights arising from this agreement and overflights arising from other arrangements in existence prior to these new arrangements.
Ceisteanna—Questions . Oral Answers . - Border Overflights .
19.
: In the interest of their effectiveness, it was decided that operational details of the measures worked out between Irish and British Ministers on 5 October 1979 to combat terrorist violence on this island would not be made public. That remains the position and in present circumstances I am satisfied that it would not be in the public interest to disclose details of the manner in which those measures are being applied.
: The Minister is not being asked to state what the arrangements are. He is being asked to state the number of overflights that are taking place under the previous and new arrangements without specifying what the new arrangements are. There is no breach of security here. Previous figures have been given of helicopter and other overflights in reply to questions in this House when we were in Government. Therefore, I ask the Minister to give the set of figures involved.
: I do not propose to give them and I do not think it is in the interests of security or good relations that they should be given. I thought the Deputy would take a slightly more constructive attitude to this——
: When we were in Government and were asked about overflights we gave the figures.
: I am surprised at Deputy FitzGerald.
: The overflights arrangement agreed by Deputy Lynch as Taoiseach and continued by Deputy Haughey is obviously a cause of embarrassment and the Minister's unwillingness to give the figures——
: A question, please, Deputy.
: There are no such overflights except by agreement and in very particular situations.
: That is what I am talking about. How many overflights have taken place?
: This agreement was very controversial, not least within the Fianna Fáil Party, and was responsible in part for bringing down the former Taoiseach. On what grounds can the Minister justify his statement that he is not prepared to give this House details of a matter which by no stretch of the imagination could be termed a breach of security? No one is asking for details or what the missions were. The question was how many times did the British forces intrude into our territory with the express permission of the present Government.
: This is a sovereign Parliament and we are entitled to that information.
: The purpose behind the new arrangement is to ensure that these overflights can only take place with our express agreement and in particular circumstances of grave seriousness.
: How many times have we given permission?
: I do not propose to discuss it.
: Even at this late stage, could we be told if we have a secret agreement for overflying with the British and if there have been any changes in the last 12 months? This information appears to be known to the leaders of the Opposition but I do not know anything about it.
: We have ad hoc arrangements where in serious cases we are asked for permission to overfly. It is only in these circumstances that overflight is permitted.
: At what level is permission given? Is it given by a Garda officer, a military officer on the spot or a member of the Government?
: That is a matter for our internal administration.