asked the Minister for Justice if he will state, in relation to the last Hospitals Sweepstake which he approved and for which completed accounts have been issued to Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, the amount in pence from each £2 ticket sold allocated to the benefit of the health services.
Ceisteanna—Questions . Oral Answers . - Irish Hospitals Sweepstakes .
5.
: Section 13 of the Public Hospitals Act, 1933, provides that the accounts of each sweepstake shall be audited and that copies of such accounts shall be furnished to me and to each Member of the Oireachtas. For the purposes of calculating the amount of the moneys received, section 2 of the 1933 Act provides for the deduction from the nominal selling price of tickets of all commissions, prizes and other remuneration given in relation to the selling of such tickets. The statutory requirement to furnish audited accounts is being complied with by the sweepstakes committee. I am not in a position to give further information in regard to the sale of tickets.
: Why is the Minister not in a position to give the information requested? Has he got the information?
: The Irish Hospitals Sweepstakes promoters are not obliged to furnish my Department with the information to which the Deputy refers but, as I have stated, audited copies of accounts shall be furnished to each Member of the Oireachtas.
: Would the Minister not agree that there is bound to be widespread public concern as a result of the admission he has just made, that is, that the promoters of the Irish Hospitals Sweepstakes are not obliged to furnish the Department with the basic information requested in the question? Is the Minister not prepared to comment on the estimate that out of the proceeds of £2 for every ticket sold, the hospitals are lucky if they receive 20p?
: I have given the information that has been made available to me but there are other areas of information which there is no obligation on the promoters of the sweepstakes to make available.
: Perhaps we can deal with that on the next question.
: Though the Minister says that there is not an obligation on the sweepstakes people to provide the information in question, that does not preclude the possibility of the Department having that information. Therefore, is the information requested available, either on a voluntary basis or otherwise, to the Department?
: I have given the information that was sought.
: I am talking about the information that is the kernel of the question. Let us not play games.
: The information sought in the question has been given.
6.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will amend the legislation governing the running of the Irish Hospital Sweepstakes to provide for greater public accountability and financial disclosure.
: I have no such proposals under consideration at present.
: Might I remind the Minister that this question was asked first and answered on 2 May 1978? Am I to take it from the reply today that there has not been any action either by the Minister for Justice or by his Department in relation to doing anything about the sweepstakes in the past two years?
: An inter-departmental committee are at present examining not only the future prospects of Hospitals Trust but the position of lotteries generally. Consideration of any amending legislation should be on the basis of the findings of that committee.
: When will that be?
: The Minister's reply is likely to be news to many people but can he say whether the inter-departmental committee will be considering in particular the fact that under section 2 of the Public Hospitals Act, the promoters are allowed to make substantial payments to themselves and to other parties for which they do not have to account and that under section 6 of the same Act such payments could be as great as 20 per cent of the gross receipts? Will the Minister ask the inter-departmental committee specifically to take these factors into consideration in their examination of the question?
: I will bear in mind what the Deputy has said.
: Question No. 7.
: A brief supplementary—
: I am sorry but I have called the next question.
: May we have an undertaking from the Government that they will act with a sense of urgency in regard to this report?
: Question No. 7 has been called.
7.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will hold a public inquiry into the operation of the Irish Hospital Sweepstakes and the relevant legislation.
: No.
: In relation to that bland reply, is the Minister prepared to accept the fact that there is increasing and widespread public concern about the activity, about the public accountability and about the operations of the Irish Hospitals Sweepstakes in that the amount contributed from that source to public health finance is approximately half of 1 per cent of the total which is no justification for these operations that are being conducted in the name of this country and, to some degree of this Parliament, abroad? The time is long overdue for an inquiry into these operations.
: If the Deputy is concerned about particular areas that are not dealt with in the audited accounts, for example, agents' fees and commissions, which are deducted from the proceeds, I should be interested in hearing from him in that regard but for him to make a bland statement and to incite a feeling that there is something wrong should put him in the position of being more forthcoming in regard to any information he may have.
: Is the Minister prepared either to confirm or to deny that the concern I am expressing and which is being expressed by many people outside this House, is a concern that successive governments have had?
: I shall neither confirm nor deny that.
: For obvious reasons.