Bord Iascaigh Mhara are the agency primarily concerned with the development of our fishery industry. We have seen a decline in our fishing stocks. We have seen many thousands of disillusioned fishermen some of whom have already left, and many of whom are considering completely leaving, the industry. Rather than having the type of development hoped for, especially with the introduction of 50-mile or 200-mile limits, we have actually seen a diminution in the size of the fishing effort by the Irish fleet around our coasts.
Statistics can always be shown to prove that you are right even when you are wrong, once you can manipulate them in a certain manner. A very small number of people have been heavily financed by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara and are catching a lot of fish, but the bulk of our fishermen today are having tougher times than probably ever before. To produce statistics which show that the catching power and the amount of fish landed have increased somewhat does not altogether tell the true story. Quite often the bulk of the catch is being taken by a small number of boats and hence helping a small number of fishermen. In this case, the catch is of a variety which is not very valuable in terms of price fetched on the market. I am referring specifically to the mackerel fishing off the Donegal coast, which seems now to be the staple part of our fishing industry, where the very large trawlers are concerned. It is not a great deal of good to our fishermen if there are six or seven super-trawlers operating out of Killybegs, catching mackerel, when 95 per cent of the fishermen are catching less than they caught in previous years and getting less, in terms of finance, than in previous years, which is the present case.
The bottom has fallen out of the market and our fishermen are in a sad plight at the moment. This was reflected here in the last couple of weeks when the Minister, in reply to questions about the number of loans which were overdue for payment by fishermen, told us that of the 400 loans — 440, I think — which had been sanctioned by BIM, some 280 of the fishermen concerned were in arrears with BIM. That figure alone reflects the plight of the fishing industry at the moment. Most of our fishermen cannot make ends meet. There has been a colossal failure in the marketing area. People simply cannot sell their fish and this is one of the major areas of responsibility for BIM. Could the Minister tell us what is going to be done to improve the situation?
In my view, what is needed is a complete restructuring of An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, and probably a restructuring of the Department of Fisheries, for that matter. Fishermen complain constantly to me that they get a highly impersonal service — if you can call it a service — from BIM. A board which was set up to act in the interests of Irish fishermen at times seems to be acting at variance with their interests. Fishermen tell me that they find it much easier to deal with their bank manager, despite the fact that they might be very much in the red, than to chat with the officials of An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. They tell me it is a case of being spoken down to. There is no progressive type of discussion. It is a case of being told what to do, how to do it, or when it should be done. There is no two-way communication at all. If An Bord Iascaigh Mhara cannot operate in a more rational and flexible manner, surely there is a strong case for its abolition and the setting up of an agency which will truly look after the interests of Irish fishermen? When I say look after the interests of Irish fishermen, I mean all fishermen, whether fishing in a 50-foot or in a 150-foot boat.
There has been an over-emphasis on the very big trawlers and a very sad neglect of the small, inshore fishermen who make up something like 90 per cent of the total number of people engaged in our fishing industry. It is time that there was a national programme drawn up to plan the future of our fishing industry. Such a plan does not exist and the uncertainty which exists at the moment is causing great anxiety for fishermen who do not know if they have a future. How could they when we have not yet a common fisheries policy and when they are not able to sell their fish? We should have an intervention system for the fishing industry. It is not good enough to tell fishermen that there is no point in fishing as they will not be able to sell their fish if they catch them. There is no logic in not having an intervention system for fish as there is for beef, butter and other milk products. There is a system of withdrawal for certain species of fish where a price is paid, but there is no intervention. In recent times in Dunmore East there have been cases where top quality fish had to be dumped because there was no cold storage facilities as in an intervention system. I would be glad if the Minister, when replying, could hold out some hope that intervention will be introduced in time.
One of the items on this Estimate relates to the cost of hiring boats in connection with additional herring surveys in the Celtic Sea. That is a very necessary type of survey. We have had such surveys under the guidance of a biologist, Mr. Molloy from the Minister's Department, over a number of years. This man has been doing excellent work with other members of the Department, but by and large the Department are vastly undermanned. The Department cannot be expected to do the job they were set up to do and which the public expect them to do when they are understaffed and when they have not the money to do research on a large scale.
While a 200-mile fishery limit off our coastline is open to all the nine members of the EEC, our fellow members of the EEC know more about our fishery grounds than we do. That is an undisputed fact. We have little or no knowledge of what exists outside of a three to six mile band. It is a sad reflection of the development of our fisheries industry that we are still at a stage where we know little about the quantities of fish and where they are. I am quite certain that the French and the Spanish, who are not yet members of the EEC, know more about our fishery grounds up to 200 miles off our coast than we do. Traditionally they have been fishing 50 and 100 miles off our coasts. They have data that should be at the disposal of Irish fishermen. If they are to fish within 200 miles off our coasts they have a duty to help in the surveying of the fish within that limit. I have not yet heard of any assistance being offered from the other member States. They are happy to take our fish, legally or illegally, but they have not volunteered any information regarding the location of fishing grounds. They undoubtedly have very detailed information by virtue of the fact that they had boats large enough to fish these grounds when Irish fishermen could go out only six or seven miles.
In his reply would the Minister tell us if he got any information from the other member states? Have they told us where they are catching huge quantities of hake? The main interest of the Spaniards around the Irish coast is hake, a species which they prize most of all. Are we getting any reciprocal assistance in these matters? They have the benefit of fishing in our grounds and I wish to know if we are getting the benefit of the knowledge they have gleaned down through the years.
I know that the surveying of the herring grounds in the Celtic Sea is of importance in relation to conservation. However it is obvious that these very grounds which are supposed to be a prohibited area for herring fishings are being fished by Continentals, particularly by the Dutch under the pretext of fishing for mackerel and catching a by-catch of herring. These people are catching large quantities of herring. We should either have a proper ban or else open the Celtic Sea to Irish fishermen. This is causing more bad blood and anger among Irish fishermen than any other item. Irish fishermen realise that we must have conservation but they maintain that the Dutch are catching a considerably greater quantity of herring in the Celtic Sea than all the Irish boats put together. I have no reason to question their assertion in this matter.
Yesterday the Irish Independent made very interesting reading. I hope the Minister paid attention to the report, which stated that, although the North Sea is closed for herring fishing and has been for several years, the French fleet at the moment are catching enormous quantities of herring there and they are blatantly landing these catches in French ports. Not a thing is being done about this by the French authorities. They are condoning——
