This debate must conclude not later than 6 p.m.
Supplementary Estimates, 1980. - Vote 46: Army Pensions.
I move:
That a supplementary sum not exceeding £2,687,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1980, for retired pay, pensions, compensation, allowances and gratuities payable under sundry statutes to or in respect of members of the Defence Forces and certain other Military Organisations, etc., and for sundry contributions and expenses in connection therewith; for certain extra-statutory children's allowances and for sundry grants.
The main Estimate for Army Pensions for the year ending 31 December 1980 is for a net sum of £20,751,000. This Supplementary Estimate is for a net additional sum of £2,687,000. The gross supplementary comprises £3,013,000 reduced to £2,687,000 by savings of £133,000 coupled with an increase of £193,000 in Appropriations-in-Aid.
Provision amounting to £756,000 towards the cost of increases in pensions was included in the main Estimate; the additional sum now sought is required to meet the cost of the actual increases and certain new expenditure arising from the operation of the Army Pensions Act, 1980.
In the case of subhead B — Wound and Disability Pensions and Gratuities, etc. — the increase sought arises from pay increases which were granted after the Estimate was framed and which are now reflected in disability pensions. The existing amount in subhead C in respect of allowances and gratuities for dependants is not now adequate to cover the grant under the 1980 Army Pensions Act of an annual allowance which was introduced for the widows of special allowance holders and the grant of increased pensions and allowances, retrospective to March 1975, for widows and children of soldiers killed in the course of duty.
The new allowance for the widows of special allowance holders has been advertised and now that the first influx of applications has been dealt with, the Department's records are being searched to try to identify any other widows who may be eligible. If Deputies are aware of the widow of any special allowance holder who has not applied for the new allowance perhaps they would let my Department know whereupon the necessary steps will be taken. All current cases which come to notice are followed up as a matter of course; the initiative is taken by my Department by communicating with the widow of the deceased special allowance holder.
Most of the extra provision in this Supplementary Estimate is required under subhead E — Defence Forces Pensions Schémes — arising from increases in pensions and gratuities retrospective to mid-1979. These increases derive mainly from certain revisions of pay scales going back to June 1979 as well as direct increases in pensions and gratuities.
Subhead K relates to special gratuities and lump sums payable in the case of men killed or injured while serving with a United Nations force. As the House is aware, there have unfortunately been a number of tragic deaths in Lebanon this year. The sum now required is in respect of the lump sums and gratuities payable to the next-of-kin of five soldiers who died this year in the service of the United Nations. The annual allowances are included under subhead C.
Subhead L provides for grants in respect of free travel, electricity, television licence, and so on, for veterans of the War of Independence. The increase of £118,000 here is due to the extension of the free electricity and television schemes to widows of veterans, as provided for in the 1980 budget, and to increased charges for electricity, travel and telephones.
As regards savings, the main item is for £100,000 for funeral grants in subhead M. In addition, there is an increase of £193,000 in Appropriations-in-Aid. Taken together, the effect of these is, as I said at the outset, to reduce the current requirement by £326,000 to a net sum of £2,687,000.
I take this opportunity of wishing the Minister well, this being the first occasion on which he has introduced an Estimate for this Department. I hope he will enjoy his ministry. In the past few hours we have been debating a change of Ministers in a very important Department, that of Finance. It is not a good thing to have had such a rapid change of Ministers in that Department in the past year because there are enormous problems to be tackled. I make those comments in passing while conveying my best wishes to the Minister for Defence.
Perhaps the Minister could give us some breakdown of the figure of £2,687,000. I have been endeavouring to highlight the number of people who left the Defence Forces after their initial term had expired. If my information is correct it would appear that a sizeable amount of that £2,687,000 is payable by way of gratuities to people who leave as soon as their initial term has expired. This would open up a very wide discussion on pay, conditions and accommodation which I cannot go into now. I would be grateful if the Minister would say what amount is payable in relation to gratuities.
I should like to deal briefly with subhead K. — Special Compensation — United Nations Force. This is the most important part of the Supplementary Estimate. It provides a sum of £65,000. I should like the Minister, if possible, to break down this compensation. I take it, it is a once off situation. Is this the total contribution being made to the dependants of the five soldiers who lost their lives in such a noble cause in the Lebanon? Can he inform the House whether any other compensation is being paid for illness or injury? If this is the sum total of the compensation — and I am open to correction - for the relatives of those five soldiers who lost their lives, it is a miserable pittance. How does it compare with compensation in the case of a person who lost his life in a civilian occupation? People who were doing such a noble job and doing it so well, lost their lives in a noble cause. They left widows and children, and I know one widow who has three children. Will the £65,000 be distributed between these widows and dependants? If so, it is miserable contribution. The Minister should examine this matter again and see if something worthwhile can be done.
When we were discussing the tragedies in the Lebanon I said we were under an obligation to those people. The Minister for Foreign Affairs spoke on behalf of the Government. I said that the UN could not renege on their obligations to these widows and children. The major powers have an obligation to them as well. I suggested that the Minister should take it up with the United Nations and the major powers, and suggest that some contribution should be made to the widows and children of those soldiers.
The figure under subhead L. is £118,000. I take it this is the result of inflation and increased costs. On subhead N. — Appropriations-in-Aid — I take it there is an increased contribution to the pension scheme. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell me what the increase is. There is a reference to recoveries in respect of pension liability. I should like the Minister to give me some detailed information on that. I understand that in 1979 an increase in pension was awarded to the widows and dependants of officers and men. The order was made in July and I understand that the increase has not yet been paid. What is the reason for the delay in the payment of the increase? If provision is made why does it take a year or more before the payments are made.
They are paid.
I am delighted to hear that. Why did it take so long?
The provision of £65,000 under subhead K. is in respect of special gratuities payable in the case of men killed while serving in the Lebanon. Apart from those gratuities there is provision in the Army Pensions Acts for the payment of a gratuity equal to a year's pay and, in the case of a married man, his widow gets an annual allowance of 50 per cent of his pay. There are also allowances for the children, so that in the case of a widow with three children such as the Deputy mentioned, an amount equal to 90 per cent of the pay is payable.
How does that compare with a normal contributory pension which is payable to any widow?
It is better.
How much better?
It is a total of 90 per cent of the pay of the deceased soldier.
In the case of a widow whose husband lost his life in a civilian occupation, the normal pension would be almost equal.
It would not be equal. In addition, widows' and orphans' benefits under the social welfare code are payable in the circumstances. That is the position with regard to the UN people who unfortunately lost their lives.
On subhead E. there is nothing unusual about the number of gratuities in this case. In the past 12 months 267 long service gratuities and 888 short services gratuities have been paid. As I explained in my opening statement, the bulk of the sum is related to increases in the rates of the payments and gratuities. The main source of the Appropriations-in-Aid is the contributions made by officers and men towards the widows' and orphans' pension scheme. These were the points raised by the Deputy and I thank him for his contribution and for his good wishes.
Vote put and agreed to.