(Cavan-Monaghan): Before I reported progress yesterday evening I said I welcomed this Bill and I thought it was opportune that it should be introduced at this time because of the scarcity of fuel and the very high price of it. I want to put on record that in my opinion it is now an economic proposition to develop our bogs, especially medium sized bogs, in parts of the country where Bord na Móna do not operate. They are doing a good job in the development of large bogs but they are not able to meet the demand for their products. It is impossible for fuel merchants to open an account with Bord na Móna. There is a long queue of people wishing to purchase turf and briquettes from Bord na Móna who cannot cope with the demand.
I urge the Minister to put this Bill into operation as soon as possible. I have more than a general interest in its operation and the work it sets out to do because in my constituency there are sizeable tracts of bog lying undeveloped for many years. This Bill has been anticipated in County Cavan because in the western end of the county a small society was formed. Last year that society developed about 7.000 tons of turf in west Cavan. All of it was not removed from that particular bog because the road to it was not completed. If satisfactory grants are made available quickly, that society hope to take 14.000 tons of turf from the bog this year. That is a sizeable operation and it is particularly useful when fuel is so scarce and expensive.
In the eastern part of County Cavan, in the Mountnugent area, a very considerable amount of money has been spent by one man in preliminary work in developing a bog there. He intends to spend another £60,000 to purchase the machinery necessary to go into turf production there. He is frustrated at the length of time it is taking to get into operation. He has submitted plans to the county development team and through them to the Central Development Committee. He has not yet been able to get his plans sanctioned. If he had he would be in production by now. The Central Development Committee are satisfied that the project of the person I mentioned is good. They are satisfied it is viable and workable on a commercial basis. Unfortunately, although he submitted plans as far back as last November, the matter has not been dealt with.
In fairness to all concerned, it is possible that the change of policy in the Department of Energy and the decision to introduce this Bill has slowed up the matter. I appeal to the Minister and the Department to get on with that task as soon as possible. We are now approaching the turf winning season and unless such people are paid the grants, or at least are sanctioned for them, another year's harvesting of turf will be missed. The Minister should give a general sanction, or a sanction in principle, to people who have applied for grants so that they can get on with this year's harvesting.
I make that appeal to the Minister because unless sanction is given frustration will kill the operations and plans of many people. It is important that he bears in mind the danger of losing another year's harvesting. I understand that the Minister plans to facilitate the production and development of bogs and turf by grants and loans. The Bill deals extensively, almost exclusively, with grants and there is not any enabling provision in it to pay loans unless indirectly under section 10, which relates to roads. That section can be construed to enable the board to construct roads on certain terms, including the payment of money. The Minister should deal with the question of loan finance under this. The Bill also enables grants to be given for the purchase of machinery but it specificially excludes — this may be a Committee Stage point — road transport vehicles. Section 2 (6) states:
(6) In this section "turf development equipment" includes any vehicle, other than a road transport vehicle or any part thereof (or anything designed for use on a road transport vehicle), machine, machinery, appliance or equipment (or any part thereof), whether driven by mechanical power or not, which is designed or intended by its manufacturer to be used to extract turf for fuel or to move turf, when so extracted, to loading points for subsequent transport by road or rail.
That definition is quite wide as far as turf machinery is concerned but it is equally wide in its exclusion of road transport vehicles of any description, shape or make. If it is not amended it will inevitably exclude some necessary machinery from that grant scheme. It must be remembered that converted tractors are necessary in the bog to get the turf from one place to another and to transport it to the road where it can be loaded for delivery home. Such vehicles are specially constructed, have a four-wheel drive and double wheels all round. The Minister and his advisers should try to remedy that before Committee Stage.
In order to obtain a grant a person must be the owner of a bog or have turbary rights. From my work as a politician and as a practicing solicitor for many years I am aware that the title to large areas of bog is very uncertain and unsettled. It is a regular jigsaw puzzle and it is an impossibility to sort out some of the title of bogland. In the medium and long term, and in order that the bog lands of the country may be exploited and developed, Bord na Móna should be given compulsory rights to acquire abandoned areas of bog when the owners cannot be traced. These areas may not necessarily be suitable for the boards purposes because they may not be big enough. Such areas are capable of development by private individuals and Bord na Móna, having acquired them — I do not say that they should acquire the fee simple of the land but the turbary rights — should have power to lease the lands out to the private sector for development. Unless some such power is taken there will not be a complete and proper development of our bogs.
We are all aware that the turbary rights of a bog may be owned by one person, one dozen people or hundreds of people who may live miles away. In the old days strips of bog were given by landlords in conjunction with large tenanted holdings. Each holding had a bog supplied and it was big enough to provide fuel for the owner of the land. In many cases the owner of the bog has lost interest in it. That matter should be looked into as soon as possible. When the turf is extracted from such land it should revert to the owner because it is always useful for tillage, particularly the growing of vegetables. The Minister should tell the House whether grants will be paid or made available later this year for machinery purchased now to harvest this year's turf.
I want now to revert to a point I made yesterday, that is, that the more I think about it the less sense I can see in confining the higher grants to co-operative societies. The Bill provides for grants of 60 per cent to qualified societies and 45 per cent to individuals. I cannot see the sense in that. This will cause delay but that is not the worst of it. If the higher rate of grant is confined to co-operative societies that will mean that such societies will have to be formed this year, something that will take some time particularly when undertaken by people who are uninitiated in that type of thing. Certainly by the time such societies are formed this year's turf harvesting season will be over. As well as that, everybody knows that even in well regulated co-operative societies sometimes trouble can arise amongst the members. At the time of the formation of the society people may have the best of intentions and their relationships may be good but it may not be long before differences occur, rows commence and that sort of thing. Furthermore, there are many private individuals who would prefer to operate on their own, who would go into this business on a commercial scale, if they were given sufficiently generous grants. A grant of at least 60 per cent should be made available to anybody who submits plans, who satisfies Bord na Móna that he is equipped to do the job, will do it, is owner of the bog or who has turbary rights.
I believe that the main object of this Bill is to have more turf produced for fuel. It should not matter to the Minister — and it certainly does not matter to the country — whether the fuel is produced by a private individual, be he called John Brady, because that is a Cavan name, by a co-operative society, a limited company or anybody else. I cannot see the sense in this and perhaps the Minister would clarify the position for me. These societies are cropping up all over the country. In the heel of the hunt they will lead to chaos because many of them will not observe the statutory regulations governing them. I do not know but I suspect that it is a continental phenomenon creeping in here.
In all sincerity I would urge the Minister to amend this section of the Bill on Committee Stage and provide that any person who satisfies Bord na Móna that he intends doing the job, who has both the know-how and turbary rights, should qualify for a grant of 60 per cent. My only doubt in this respect is whether or not a grant of 60 per cent is sufficiently high. I agree that it is a substantial grant but, as I endeavoured to put on the record yesterday, people went out of turf production. It was found to be uneconomic because the cost of drainage, road building and machinery made it prohibitive. Now with the shift away from cheap energy, its scarcity and enormous cost, turf production is becoming economic. Indeed it is in the interests of the country from the balance of payments point of view that we should not be sending vast sums of money out of the country for energy until such time as we have utilised all the energy we can produce at home. Even if one has to tempt people generously to do the job again surely it is better to spend that money at home providing jobs and producing fuel rather than sending it to the sheiks of the oil producing countries. I have no doubt that that constitutes sound economics and common sense. The only doubt I have is whether or not the grants being provided are sufficient. Certainly a grant of 45 per cent will not encourage people to undertake the task. It should be 60 per cent payable right across the board, to private individuals and even to commercial companies who arc prepared to spend the money in that way. I must repeat that it does not matter who does the job. who extracts the turf, as long as good turf is produced. put on the market and as long as that turf reduces the cost of living here and does something to correct our adverse balance of payments.
