Since there are no amendments on Report Stage we proceed to the Fifth Stage in accordance with Standing Orders.
Criminal Law (Rape) Bill, 1981: Fifth Stage.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
Deputy Keating may now speak only on what is in the Bill.
I should like to thank you and the Minister for your co-operation. We have discussed this Bill very fully in its various sections. This side of the House have serious reservations about the Bill. Briefly, we feel there has been a missed opportunity here, that we could have had an opportunity in the context of this very important issue to deal with a wide variety of issues which the Minister chose not to deal with and which on Committee Stage were not accepted as appropriate for inclusion in the discussion. Despite the disturbing evidence available of a very serious and rapid rise in sex-related offences, this Bill makes a very narrow assault on that problem and is little more than a tidying up of some aspects of very outdated legislation relating to rape defined in a very narrow and singular way.
It is unfortunate, perhaps, that the mechanics of Dáil procedure and the tedious way in which Parliaments do their business, reacting often with legislation or measures that are too little and too late, mean that this legislation is probably already out of date even in its new form. I am ready to concede that there are improvements in the Bill, particularly in relation to penalties and to the protection of people who, tragically, have need to take action under the Bill. However it would have been a wonderful chapter in the history of this Parliament if we had taken the opportunity presented and included in the Bill areas of real concern permeated in our society by tragic implications in regard to sex-related offences generally for a wide variety of issues. This would have specifically referred to sections in the Bill concerned with the definition of rape and with other types of crime which have at their roots a perverse attitude regarding what we might call one's understanding of what the sexual relationship is about and the impact that has on people in terms of the brutalising effect of sex-related crimes on women and some men and younger people generally.
I wondered during the debate if there was some better way of dealing with this issue than merely deciding in advance, as it was decided here, to bring about some progress in relation to a very narrow range of issues included in the Bill. We had a chance — and we shall not have one. I believe, for many years again — to stand back from this area, study it and assess it with new found insights which modern psychiatry, modern criminology, modern experience of other countries would have given us as to how we should deal, not just with rape in its narrow sense, but with the whole area of sex-related crime. That might have enabled us collectively to produce legislation which would have dealt in a compassionate and yet very strong way with issues that are very real and which unfortunately have been omitted from this legislation.
That is a pity because I do not anticipate that we shall have this kind of Bill before us again for some time. In fairness, the Minister is to be congratulated on actually having introduced a Bill in an area about which there has not been that much demand, although I would like to take the opportunity of saying publicly that I shall be passing to the Minister's office some signatures which were handed to me to give to the Minister last week by a number of women who came to the gates of Leinster House. I understand there are 10,000 signatures attached to that petition, which is about their concern in regard to deficiencies in the Bill. In almost all the issues in the petition this party supports the demands of these women. Accordingly, it is with mixed feelings that one sees the passing — as presumably will be the case — of this Bill into law when one sees outside it an enormous problem not only of sex-related crime but of the need to improve understanding of sexual relations between people and the tension, strain and stress it produces in marriages and outside marriage and the difficulties to which it gives rise.
When we hear of crimes of a sexual nature or rape one always gets the impression that we hear only of the very few and that there are many problems in this area about which people for one reason or another are very reluctant to come forward. Presumably that is why rape is alleged to be the most under-reported crime. It is a crime of essential repugnance to civilised people: it strikes at the dignity and equality of human beings. It seeks to take advantage by one sex of the nature of that sex and its allegedly superior physical strength. It brutalises women in some cases most terribly and with horrible effects.
This Bill takes a tiny step forward in trying to deal with the problem. I wish it had been many giant steps, as it could have been. Would the Minister commit himself to further legislation in this area in a Bill that would be comprehensive and deal with the need for new attitudes towards crime of a sexual nature, attitudes which were dealt with very extensively in the report to the British Government by their committee?
The Deputy is getting away from what is in the Bill. At this stage we can only deal very strictly with what is in the Bill and not mention what might be or should be in it.
The Minister, in replying, might take the opportunity of referring to the possibility of other legislative approaches in this regard. We know that neither the Bill, nor indeed any legislation, is the complete answer nor perhaps even largely the answer to the problem of sex-related crime and that there are many other areas requiring to be dealt with if we are properly to tackle the issues arising. In my view we have missed an opportunity here. If that is the case, it is unfortunate for the women and the children of this country because there have been instances where children have witnessed what is referred to in this Bill.
I would like to think we could tackle these problems at an earlier stage and more fundamentally at their roots and not do as we have done here, and that is, very little for many people and very late. Nevertheless, it would be wrong of me to do other than wish the Bill success. We made our reservations known on Committee Stage and they still remain. If given the opportunity we would introduce the changes we think necessary to this legislation. In a way I hope our fears will be groundless. In my opinion there is room for improvement in this Bill. We spelt them out on Committee Stage and I will not repeat them now.
I hope we can look forward to a diminishing crime pattern in this frightening area where the statistics point in only one direction, that is, unprecedented misunderstanding between the sexes, violence between men and women and tragedy for families. I do not know whether, in the light of the experiences of other countries, we can deal with this problem satisfactorily, but we should be willing to do this very soon by taking a broad look at the whole area of sex-related offences and relations between men and women and try to embody whatever is needed in legislation to bring about the necessary improvements.
I hope this Bill is a symbol of our determination to bring about progress in this regard. It is probably not much more. I wish the Bill every success.
Is the question agreed?
In view of our expressed dissatisfaction on a number of Stages, I ask for a vote.
At this stage?
Yes.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 56; Níl, 42.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Kit.
- Allen, Lorcan.
- Andrews, David.
- Andrews, Niall.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Browne, Seán.
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Callanan, John.
- Calleary, Seán.
- Cogan, Barry.
- French, Seán.
- Gallagher, Dennis.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hussey, Thomas.
- Kenneally, William.
- Killeen, Tim.
- Killilea, Mark.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leonard, Tom.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- McSharry, Ray.
- Meaney, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Colley, George.
- Conaghan, Hugh.
- Connolly, Gerard.
- Crinion, Brendan.
- de Valera, Vivion.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Farrell, Joe.
- Filgate, Eddie.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom
- (Dublin South-Central).
- Fitzsimons, James N.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Fox, Christopher J.
- Moore, Seán.
- Morley, P.J.
- Murphy, Ciarán P.
- Noonan, Michael.
- O'Connor, Timothy C.
- O'Donoghue, Martin.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Leary, John.
- Power, Paddy.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Walsh, Seán.
- Woods, Michael J.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Barry, Myra.
- Barry, Peter.
- Barry, Richard.
- Belton, Luke.
- Bermingham, Joseph.
- Burke, Joan.
- Burke, Liam.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Cluskey, Frank.
- Collins, Edward.
- Conlan, John F.
- Corish, Brendan.
- Cosgrave, Michael J.
- Creed, Donal.
- Crotty, Kieran.
- D'Arcy, Michael J.
- Deasy, Martin A.
- Donnellan, John F.
- Enright, Thomas W.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Cavan-Monaghan).
- Gilhawley, Eugene.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Harte, Patrick D.
- Hegarty, Paddy.
- Keating, Michael.
- Kenny, Enda.
- L'Estrange, Gerry.
- Lipper, Mick.
- McMahon, Larry.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Murphy, Michael P.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Toole, Paddy.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Ryan, John J.
- Spring, Dan.
- Taylor, Frank.
- Treacy, Seán.
- Tully, James.
- White, James.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Moore and Briscoe; Níl, Deputies L'Estrange and M. Cosgrave.
Question declared carried.