asked the Minister for Finance the level of private finance which has been made available to the Government for special projects as envisaged in the Investment Plan, 1981.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Investment Plan, 1981.
6.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together.
Discussions on the possible involvement of the private sector in the public capital programme are still proceeding, and it would be premature and inappropriate to publish detailed information before the conclusion of negotiations.
I might add, however, that all major projects in the public capital programme are being examined with a view to establishing their suitability for private sector financial participation. It is expected at this stage that a major contribution will be arranged for the accelerated telecommunication programme and that the office decentralisation programme will also provide suitable outlets for private funds.
How, if it is a fact that discussions are still proceeding more than two months after his budget speech and that the feasibility of private participation in the programme is still only being examined, was the Minister able to put such an exact and generous figure on the level of that participation on 28 January last? He gave a figure of £200 million.
In negotiations of this kind there has to be a lead-in time. Substantial progress has been made, and I expect that before the end of this week specific proposals will be on my table.
Surely it is not so much negotiations which require a lead-in time as the actual bricks and mortar of a project. Surely the Minister is not telling the House that we are still at the stage of expecting proposals which, if I understand the Minister correctly, may never come. Will the Minister recognise the contrast between that situation and the bland way in which he wrote himself a cheque for £200 million on budget day and saved himself the trouble of having to account for that by either borrowing or taxation? It was the greatest confidence trick since Deputy Haughey became Taoiseach.
The Deputy is mixing his drinks slightly. Obviously the man would not be an experienced business negotiator, and I can appreciate the reason why he would not understand the situation. Detailed negotiations on specifically defined parts of the Public Capital Programme are going ahead now and the detailed proposals coming on my desk will relate to specific parts of the programme. The Deputy asked about the £200 million. I said I was confident we would be able to raise that sum from the private sector. The Deputy must appreciate that the details of individual projects must be teased out, finalised and approved. As I said, those detailed proposals in respect of specific projects will be on my desk this week. I believe that is progress.
Has the Minister a definite legally binding commitment so far of even £1 million of these £200 million?
I have explained that there is adequate funding available and that detailed negotiations are taking place on the costing of the proposals and the physical proposals themselves. This is the type of final proposal I will have on my desk this week.
I thought that sort of thing was very far advanced three months ago.
Prior to the Budget Statement, had the Minister definite commitments from the private sector on this sum of money?
On this sum of money, yes, detailed negotiations are taking place on the proposals and the way the money relates to each proposal.
How many private concerns are involved in these negotiations? On what basis would the office decentralisation plan be included? Is it intended that the Government will simply rent more offices?
Not necessarily rent. There are a number of possibilities within the proposals which can be used, whether they relate to telecommunications investment or decentralisation of offices. Leasing, or as the Deputy said renting, is one of the possibilities.
The Government are already doing that.
That has been done for the past 20 years.
The Deputy must appreciate that there is a difference here. He says we are already doing this but it is being done in a very confined area. This Government are committed to expanding, not being confined. The Deputy mentioned office accommodation——
How many firms are involved?
Negotiations are taking place at present with a short list which was selected from a major list of final proposals.
Did the others "chicken out"?
No. The total number of interested parties is reaching a few hundred.
I take it from the Minister's reply that not a penny has yet been legally committed to any project. On the assumption that he did get this £200 million, could he state the extra cost involved in remunerating this over and above the cost of money borrowed in the ordinary way at fixed interest rates and securities?
I expected a question like that from the Deputy. Part of the present negotiations is to ensure we get value for money. As I said in reply to earlier questions, there are two different concepts here, first, that we get value for money and, second, that we stimulate activity in our economy.
How much extra will this cost the Exchequer? Will the Minister answer my question?
We are having a debate. I am calling Question No. 7.
As I said, part of the negotiations is that we will have to get value for money and I hope there will not be any extra cost.
This is the financial equivalent of the totality of relations on the Lenihan level.
(Interruptions.)