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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 Apr 1981

Vol. 328 No. 8

Agricultural Prices: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:—

—notes that the EEC Council of Ministers has reached decisions in regard to agricultural prices for 1981/82 and related measures;

—expresses its satisfaction that the decisions represent an average increase of over 13% in Irish support prices and include a package of special measures for Ireland, and

—welcomes the significant contribution which the Council's decisions and the measures already taken by the Government will make to improving farm income in Ireland and furthering the development of Irish agriculture."

Agriculture serves all our people, not just the farmers who depend on it for a living, but everyone in the country, particularly those working in the food industry and in the industries supplying the farmers' needs; also the consumers who expect a constant supply of high quality food at reasonable prices.

It is not always easy to reconcile the interests of these various groups but it is important that we recognise the common interest we all have in realising the full potential of Irish agriculture. The achievement of a realistic rate of expansion in agriculture is not just a matter for the Government. It is an objective of major significance to us all. In the development of our economy in recent years, the farming sector has been an area of particular concern to the Government. The problems which farmers have had to face have been fully recognised by the Government and we have spared no efforts to find adequate solutions.

There are three sources of possible help to farmers to raise their incomes and achieve real improvements in agricultural output. Each of them is vitally important. These three sources are the EEC, the Exchequer and the Farmers themselves. Let me say straight away that anyone who would disregard one of these three areas of responsibility is not being realistic in today's circumstances. It is only through concerted action on all three fronts that we will see farming achieve worthwhile growth.

I should like, first of all, to deal with help from the EEC. Before dealing with last week's Brussels decisions in detail, however, it is desirable to look at the background against which the discussions in the Council of Ministers took place. For some time now a number of member states have been seriously concerned about the state of the Community's finances and, in particular, about the large share of the budget spent on the common agricultural policy, not to mention the budgetary impact of increasing that expenditure. As is well known, the upper limit of the Community budget is fixed by the maximum contribution of 1 per cent of each country's VAT base. This is not a limitation which Ireland favours. We consider that it operates to prevent the proper development of the Community, the achievement of economic and social convergence and the introduction of new policies. However, some member states refuse absolutely to raise the limit at present and so it may be with us for some time to come. The Community's expenditure, in which agriculture of course plays a large part, is at present within the limit.

Some member states are putting forward suggestions which would seriously reduce the scope or impact of the common agricultural policy and for products of major interest to this country. I have resisted such proposals in the past and I again resisted them on this occasion.

At present, the Commission, in the context of a mandate given to it by the Council, is looking into the question of restructuring the Community budget. While this restructuring is not to question the fundamental principles of the common agricultural policy, a number of member states see the curtailment of expenditure on agriculture and a reduction in the Community budget devoted to FEOGA as a basic ingredient of this exercise.

Such a restriction on Community spending on agriculture would not be in the long-term interests of the CAP. It could eventually bring the CAP to the point where it could not fulfil the role assigned to it by the treaty. It is very much in Ireland's interests that such a line should be opposed.

Also in the background were two other major factors. One was the strong pressure from what I might call the southern member states to increase the share of Community agricultural expenditure allocated to their particular products. While some movement in that direction may be justified on economic, social or other grounds, the overall pressure on total Community expenditure means that increased support for products such as olive oil, tobacco and wine could make it more difficult to preserve or obtain the necessary support for products of major interest to us.

The other major background factor was the concept of co-responsibility. The Commission was again putting forward a super-levy as one of the main co-responsibility instruments in the milk sector. This is a most objectionable proposal for this country because it would impose a penal levy on increases in milk production and so would have the effect of freezing our milk production at its present level, For cereals, the Commission proposed applying co-responsibility by means of deferring payment of part of the intervention prices, a method open to considerable objections. Faced with the huge task of day-to-day market management in the Community and the desire of some member states to curtail spending on agriculture, the Commission can argue that co-responsibility measures are necessary, at least at times. But the co-responsibility concept should not become a permanent principle of the common agricultural policy. Neither should it be applied in a way that would discriminate unfairly against a country or a region.

Those then were the difficult background elements when last week's final session of the price discussions began — financial pressures for savings on the CAP, pressures from some member states to spend much more on Mediterranean products, and pressures from the Commission and others to introduce further co-responsibility measures, some of which would be objectionable from our point of view. Of course, there were other factors also in the background; for example, the policy of some countries to restrict as far as possible increases in food prices.

My main aim in the negotiations was to get the highest possible price rise for Irish farmers and to get it as rapidly as possible. At the same time I was seeking special EEC aid to deal with the difficult farm income situation here. I achieved both of those objectives. We secured an average increase of over 13 per cent in the Community farm support prices applied in Ireland. This was a greater increase than in any other member state except Italy who had devalued their currency. The overall price increase for the UK is 9½ per cent while that for Germany is between 5 per cent and 6 per cent.

I note that, when giving its opinion on the price proposals, the European Parliament would have been satisfied with an average increase of 12 per cent, weighted towards the products in deficit and against products in surplus such as milk. This would have meant less than 12 per cent for Ireland because of our heavy dependence on milk. However, the result we actually secured is more than the European Parliament recommended. The new prices for milk and beef, by far our most important products, came into effect on 6 April, apart from an element of 2½ per cent in the beef price which comes next December. Last year we had to wait until June for the price adjustments. The benefits of the earlier price settlement this year are very considerable. For example, the value of the increases on April and May milk and beef is about £35 million. Thus we had every incentive to get a quick settlement.

Following the change in green rates after the devaluation of the Italian lira and the adjustment of the value of the ECU, it was possible to obtain a devaluation of the Irish green pound which had the effect of increasing the Community farm prices applied here by 3.92 per cent. This brought our green pound into full alignment with the market value of our currency.

If we had not made this change, we would have again faced an MCA charge on our exports as from last Monday. Also in the agri-monetary sector, the Council agreed to changes in the German green rate which reduced Germany's MCA charge on imports by 6.6 percentage points for milk and 5.6 points for other products. This reduction should be of substantial benefit to Irish Agricultural exports to Germany. In the case of the United Kingdom there was a reduction of 2.1 percentage points in the MCA, and this too will benefit our exporters.

For us the price increase for milk is over 13 per cent. The related increases in the intervention prices for butter and skim milk powder include a similar increase in respect of higher processing costs. This is something I had been pressing for during the negotiations, especially as the allowance has not been changed for some years. Together, these two adjustments should give an increase of at least 7p per gallon, and possibly up to 8p for the Irish milk producer. This is the biggest ever increase in one single step. Furthermore, the super levy, to which I was totally opposed, has again been withdrawn. Last year Ireland alone was opposed to this levy but this year a number of other Ministers supported my line. The removal of this threat gives our industry the possibility of further expansion towards levels of development which obtain elsewhere in the Community.

The general rate of the basic linear levy has of course increased from 2 per cent to 2.5 per cent. While nobody likes having to pay a higher levy, accepting this instead of the super levy is clearly very much in our interest. I had hoped to be able to secure a greater degree of exemption from the levy for disadvantaged areas and, indeed, I pressed that viewpoint strongly at the Council. For the time being at least, the Council felt unable to do more than to maintain the existing differential of 0.5 per cent in favour of disadvantaged areas, but we will continue to pursue this issue in the future.

There is, of course, the commitment to take further action if the cost of disposal of milk rises as a result of an increase of at least 1 per cent in community deliveries this year. For the milk producers, this formula is a substantial improvement on the automatic linking of production increases with new restrictions as was done in the past.

The idea of a heavier levy on very intensive milk producers, especially those using feed from outside the Community, has not been abandoned, although the Council were not yet prepared to adopt it last week. The Commission are to give it further consideration. That approach is one which we favour and it has appeared in a Commission proposal for the first time this year. It would give comparatively favourable treatment to those producers who make use principally of the feed they can produce on their own land. I think that is right, and we will be pressing for it again when the opportunity offers.

Two other points from the Council decisions in the dairy sector should also be mentioned. These arise from the Council's confirmation of the mini-package of measures provisionally agreed by the Council at their February meeting. The first relates to New Zealand butter. Imports are to be limited to 94,000 tonnes in 1981 and 92,000 tonnes in 1982. These amounts are well below the 115,000 tonnes which New Zealand was authorised to deliver in 1980, arising out of the arrangements made following the Declaration agreed at the Summit here in Dublin in 1975. They are also below the 95,000 tonnes level, to which New Zealand agreed to reduce its deliveries last year. It is a matter for satisfaction that the trend in deliveries continues to be downward.

Furthermore, as a direct result of closer co-operation between the Community and New Zealand, the other main world supplier of dairy produce, there has been a very great improvement in world market prices. This co-operation has resulted in substantial savings for the Community Budget and has been an important factor in enabling the Community to achieve a record level of diary produce exports last year.

The other important milk matter from the mini-package, which was confirmed last week, relates to investment aids for milk production. Last year, the Council decided to ban such investment aids except for farmers carrying out development plans, or farm improvement plans under common measures. That ban was not put into effect at the time and the Council have now relaxed it so that member states may give investment aids to milk producers who have not submitted development plans provided that the investment does not bring their herds above 40 dairy cows. That was an advantageous change for this country, especially when seen in conjunction with another step forward we made in the mini-package, namely the inclusion in the development category of farmers with only 85 per cent of the comparable income.

Before moving away from the dairy sector, I should mention that the consumed subsidy on butter in the United Kingdom is being kept unchanged rather than being subject to a reduced Community contribution as the Commission had proposed. This, of course, will benefit our butter exports to the UK and help to maintain consumption in that important market outlet.

Overall, the agreement reached in Brussels should result in an average price for creamery milk producers of over 60p per gallon. This compares with an average level of 30p per gallion in 1975.

In the beef sector, the price increase will be over 14 per cent, of which 2.5 per cent will apply from next December. I was able to maintain the derogation which allows this country to retain the use of intervention as long as our weekly market price for cattle remains below 85 per cent of the Community guide price. Although cattle prices are good at present, and intervention buying less necessary than in the past, it is essential for us that there should be a floor under the market for slaughter cattle. This derogation provides one. The Commission have stated their intention of introducing increased seasonality into intervention buying of beef forequarters and hindquarters. A somewhat similar arrangement, involving the suspension of intervention for forequarters, has operated for the past three or four months without damaging the market in this country. Also a Community grading scale for beef carcases which is to be introduced as soon as the technical details have been fully ironed out, will provide a common language for the beef trade in the Community and facilitate our exports to the other member states.

All in all, the prospects for the cattle sector are very encouraging. Prices this year are at record levels and have been running at about 20 per cent above last year's. They are, in fact, almost three times higher than they were paid to farmers in 1974.

With the increase in the intervention price and higher export refunds, further increases should follow. Calf prices, too, are buoyant and are now averaging almost £85 per head as compared with £57 this time last year and with prices of as low as £10 per head and even much lower during 1974-75.

The Council decided to reduce the calf premium in Italy in 1981-82. Indeed, the Commission and some member states want to abolish it completely. I made a determined effort to have this premium extended to Ireland, holding up the Council's final decisions for a considerable time. When it became clear from the Council's discussions that the choice was between an immediate settlement worth £215 million in a full year to Irish farmers, and a postponement for an indefinite period with possible erosion of that settlement, I chose to make sure, there and then, of the exceptional benefits that were on the table for us. But I did not do so without getting an undertaking that the Commission would make further proposals, in particular in favour of the Irish cattle sector, in time for Council decision by the middle of next July. No undertaking of this kind was given to any other member state.

For some years now, the meat industry in this country has experienced difficulties from time to time in competing with Northern factories for cattle supplies during periods when specially high levels of variable premium applied in Northern Ireland. As part of last week's price-package the Commission indicated that henceforth a separate rate of variable premium will not be set for Northern Ireland. This change will remove the discriminatory treatment about which the meat industry had been complaining for some time.

In the pigmeat sector, the increase in the basic price is 15.4 per cent for Ireland, including the agri-monetary effect. One of the difficulties about the Community pigmeat system has always been that the basic price has less direct impact on the market than the prices fixed in other sectors. This year, however, the Commission have undertaken to manage the pigmeat market in such a manner that the agreed increase in the basic price will have a corresponding effect on the market price. The Commission have also undertaken to tighten up the administration of the Community protection system against pigmeat imports from Third countries. These undertakings are most important and should help the conditions for pigmeat production.

For sheepmeat, there will be an increase of 14.8 per cent in the Irish reference price, including the agri-monetary effect and a 3 per cent alignment step towards a common Community reference price. This price increase brings the Irish reference price to over 106p per lb which compares with an average price of around 86p last year and less than 40p in 1975. This is substantial encouragement to our producers to improve both the quantity and the quality of their product.

The "Clawback" charged on sheepmeat exports from the UK, which is designed to offset the effects of the slaughter premium paid there, will continue to operate in intra-Community trade and will ensure that UK sheepmeat has not an unwarranted advantage, particularly in the important French market.

The intervention price for feed grains and the reference price for soft wheat are increased by about 10 per cent, including the agri-monetary element. Target prices are being raised by about 2 per cent more, thus enlarging the extent of Community preference for grain produced in the Community over imports from Third countries.

As I mentioned earlier, the Commission had proposed a particular form of co-responsibility in the cereals sector. Their idea was, broadly, to reduce intervention prices if production rose. For this purpose, 5 per cent of the intervention price was to be held back until the results of the Community harvest became known.

I and a number of other Ministers saw serious objections to this from the cereal producers' point of view. The final outcome was that the Council did not accept this proposal. They will further review the question in the context of the 1982-83 price fixing.

For sugar there will be a price increase of over 12 per cent, again including the agri-monetary element. This will give a substantial net gain to producers even when the new production levy of 2 per cent is taken into account. This production levy is part of the so-called "mini-package", which was agreed in February subject to an Italian reservation which was withdrawn last week. The 2 per cent figure is a maximum, not a fixed, charge. The levy will not be charged at all unless the cost of disposing of sugar makes it necessary. I should point out that no financing for the disposal of Community sugar was necessary for most of last year.

But the most significant part for us of the sugar arrangements confirmed in the price package is the retention of Ireland's "A" quota at its present level of 182,000 tonnes at a time when the movement in the Community has been towards cutting sugar quotas generally. In practice full use of this facility will mean expanding our beet acreage to produce at least 182,000 tonnes of sugar. I am glad that the efforts of the sugar company to secure an increased beet acreage this year are meeting with a good response, and I would urge more farmers to consider this remunerative line of production so as to ensure that our full quota will be produced. Production of this quantity, together with the price increase now agreed, will not only improve growers' incomes but will also help the Sugar Company in their difficult financial situation.

Finally, the settlement last week enables Ireland to continue to import on favourable terms raw sugar from the ACP countries for refining here, thereby providing valuable employment opportunities.

I come now to what was for us a vital element of the 1981-82 prices decisions, namely, the special measures for Ireland. It is well known that since last year I had been pressing the Commission to bring forward proposals specific to this country's needs. I had pursued the matter intensively both with the last Vice—President Gundelach and, after his untimely death, with the present Commissioner for Agriculture, Mr. Dalsager.

I had stressed the very serious decline in farm incomes here in 1979 and 1980 and had urged that the situation should be met by special measures which would act directly on farm incomes and would also encourage farmers to resume current investments on which they had been forced to cut back.

I had pointed out that the high degree of dependence of the Irish economy on agriculture, taken together with the fact that our national resources were severely limited compared with those of other member states, made it essential that the Community should show solidarity by assisting us.

The Commission had, of course, difficulties of their own to face in complying with my request. As I have said, we are going through a time of financial stringency and cut-backs in expenditure at Community level. This did not make it 1 235any easier for me to have my requests any easier for me to have my requests accepted. Also, the Council had in the recent past adopted other measures specifically for Ireland — the western drainage scheme, the cross-Border drainage scheme and the comprehensive structural measures for the west of Ireland, worth £300 million in a ten year period. Other member states too had experienced some quite sharp declines in farm incomes although their difficulties were less serious than ours.

In December last I submitted to the Commission a list of possible ways in which help could be provided for our agricultural industry and over recent months these were pursued with the Commission by myself and my Department. When agreement on the "mini-package" was reached last February I made it clear that for me proposals on special measures for Ireland would be an essential element of the 1981-82 price agreement.

The Council approved of the proposals last week, the Agricultural Committee of the European Parliament approved of them on Tuesday last and I understand that the European Parliament itself is to discuss them today and vote on them tomorrow. The proposals must then go through a formal adoption procedure by the Council and, following some Commission implementing regulations, they will come into effect. In the Council discussions last week it was agreed to extend the measures to Northern Ireland. I welcomed that course because I know that a difficult farm income position also prevails there.

The special measures include a programme for the development of beef cattle production which contains four separate measures. First, there is to be a lime subsidy of £2.50 per tonne. This is designed to offset the downward trend in lime use which has been taking place recently. It should encourage farmers to restore lime application to normal levels, thus increasing yields and incomes. There is also to be Community aid for intensifying our performance testing and progeny testing programmes. Thirdly, a subsidy of £3 per tonne of silage will be available to farmers making silage for the first time. It is now widely recognised that silage is superior to hay as a winter feed and silage making is a development that must be fostered in our climatic conditions. The new grant should encourage many who are still making hay to change over to silage.

The final point in the cattle development programme is a subsidy of £5 per cow for artificial insemination. Widespread use of this subsidy will operate to raise the efficiency of our cattle herds.

There are two further measures. The first relates to our disease eradication programmes. The elimination of bovine TB and brucellosis is, of course, essential for our livestock and dairying sectors. But the Government — and now the Community too — recognise that in the present farm income situation the financial impact on farmers of some of the eradication procedures has become harder to bear. Aid of up to £4 per animal will now be made available to help farmers to meet the cost of pre-movement tests.

The final provision relates to the suckler cow premium. For a period of two years the Community will provide the funds to enable us to double the premium to over £26 per cow. This is both an income and a development measure. It should provide a significant income benefit to beef producers while at the same time helping them to build up their cow numbers and so reverse the decline in the beef herd that has been taking place over a considerable period of years.

A feature of these special measures is that they apply to the whole country and not just to the disadvantaged areas. Their total cost is estimated at £51 million, of which £31 million will be provided by the Community and £20 million by the Irish Exchequer. They demonstrate in a very striking way that, just as Ireland is committed to the Community, the Community is also committed to us and has a real interest in the welfare of our agricultural economy.

The prices package as a whole provides a benefit of some £215 million to the Irish agricultural sector in a full year and a gain of around £120 million to our balance of payments. There are substantial improvements for all our major farm products. The price increases are the highest in recent years, and the overall financial benefit is the biggest price settlement improvement that our farmers have ever obtained.

The danger of a super-levy on milk has again been staved off. Significant steps have been taken in dismantling MCA protection in some of our export markets. Our special measures have been agreed, and on top of that there is a commitment to further proposals to help us. The Commission has undertaken to study other methods of assisting in social and other problems resulting from the fall in incomes in the agricultural sector which is of particular importance to the Irish economy.

In addition, the Council has requested the Commission to examine the possibilities for further relieving the current serious income difficulties of Irish agriculture and, in particular, for the cattle sector and to bring forward proposals so that the Council could take decisions before 15 July next. These commitments are most valuable and are further evidence of the willingness of the Community to help a member state which has serious temporary difficulties to overcome.

Our agricultural sector has faced great difficulties over the past year or two. The year 1980 was not a particularly good one for our farmers. The weather certainly was no great help. But the major underlying cause was the recession which had bedevilled the economies of the western countries over the last few years.

The Government have been very conscious of the adverse situation in the agricultural industry and of the effect on farmers' incomes. The Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and I held regular meetings with the leaders of the farming organisations during the year. Arising from these discussions with the farm leaders the Government took positive steps to alleviate those difficulties and promote renewed investment and expansion in the agricultural industry.

The measures taken by the Government represent a formidable list. Last autumn we introduced a new winter fodder scheme with fertiliser and silage subsidies at a cost of over £2 million. An extra £23 million was provided for the farm modernisation scheme. We removed last year's second moiety of rates for farmers in the £40 to £60 RV category at a cost of £6 million. Arrangements were made through the associated banks and the ACC for a constructive and positive approach to the restructuring of existing loans where farmers were faced with serious repayment problems and we also arranged for £100 million to be loaned to farmers at reduced interest rates.

The EEC beef suckler scheme, worth about £6 million, was introduced and we supplemented this with a national scheme of grants for additional cows. The rates of grants under the cattle headage, beef cow and sheep headage schemes were substantially increased, being more or less doubled in most cases. The subsidy under the mountain lamb extension scheme was also doubled and the cost to farmers of warble dressing was kept at the previous year's level. We increased the annual grant to Macra na Feirme. All these measures were introduced by the Government at a cost of £39 million.

But the Government did not stop with these measures. They were only the beginning. In our budget last February a further £35 million for farming was provided. We abolished resource tax and introduced modifications in the income tax provisions applying to farmers. Full relief from rates was granted to farmers under £50 RV and 50 per cent relief for those between £50 and £70 RV at a cost of almost £20 million in 1981. 59,000 farmers will benefit directly from this, with 49,000 getting full relief. The position now is that only 15,000 farmers out of a total of 150,000 are paying full rates. And these 15,000 are the farmers who are benefiting from the abolition of the resource tax. So in effect the budget measures benefited the total farming community. In addition, we suspended the disease eradication levies, giving a direct saving to farmers of almost £10 million in 1981. A sum of £250,000 was provided to assist the development of the seed potato industry. All the measures I have mentioned, which were taken by the Government, were what the responsible farmers' leadership agreed in discussion were necessary and are surely clear and positive indications of the Government's concern for our agricultural industry. These measures cannot be looked at in isolation. They are part of an ongoing programme, and we will be shortly meeting farmers' representatives again to review the situation in the light of the Brussels' decisions.

As I said at the start, improvements in the farm income situation can come from three main sources, the EEC, the Exchequer and the farmers themselves. I have outlined what we have secured from the EEC and what the Government are providing. While I have left until last the contribution that farmers themselves can make, I do not want this to be taken as implying a lower degree of importance to it than to action by the EEC or by the Government. There is wide recognition that we are far from reaching the full potential of Irish soils. That potential can only be attained by farmers themselves — the EEC cannot do it, nor can the Government. It is the 150,000 Irish farm families who determine just what is produced, and not just the quantity but the quality as well.

In recent years there has been a very substantial level of capital investment in agriculture. Since 1975 well over £1,000 million has been invested in land improvement, buildings, machinery and so on. We have not yet seen an adequate return on that investment. The opportunities for improved output and efficiency are there in all sectors of the industry. Our average milk yields are nowhere near what they should be, despite our natural advantages in dairying. The potential improvement in most dairy farmers' incomes from improved yields and higher stocking rates far outweighs anything that is likely to be obtained from higher prices.

The same philosophy holds for other farm enterprises. There are huge areas in this country devoted to cattle production where output is far below what it could be. We should aim at a target of 500 kilos live weight by two years old; many farms are not achieving even 400 kilos today. That extra 100 kilos can be achieved by adequate winter feed, good grassland management in the grazing season, and a high standard of animal husbandry. At today's prices for cattle it would give the farmer a worth-while boost in income to reach these standards. In the case of sheep we need to aim at a standard of 150 per cent lambing for lowland flocks and 100 per cent for hill flocks if full profitability of the enterprise is to be realised.

There is also considerable scope for improvement in our tillage enterprises. According to the Sugar Company an improvement of two tons an acre in beet yield or 2 per cent in sugar content is readily achievable. Similarly there is room for improvement in cereals. At present a significant divergence exists between the yields obtained by the top producers and the least efficient ones, and an average increase of up to 25 per cent is easily attainable.

The extra farm revenue which these improvements would represent would not involve great increases in costs but would require improved husbandry — early ploughing, cultivating at the right time and early sowing. The cumulative effect of the price increases and other measures agreed in Brussels last week, the steps already taken by the Government and the opportunities for increased output and efficiency available to the farmer provide a strong impetus to the further development of the agricultural sector. I am confident that we shall see the restoration of strong growth in the farming sector provided that everyone involved plays his full part.

The Government will not hesitate to take whatever further steps are necessary, but there must be an equal determination throughout the industry to match this with all possible efforts to increase output and efficiency. If this is done, not only will we leave behind the difficulties of the past two years but we shall see the industry entering into a new era of success and prosperity. The achievement of that position will be helped by the EEC and the Government measures which I have outlined. They will do much to reverse the downturn in incomes and put the industry back on the road to expansion and recovery. Despite the decline in dairy cows it looks as if milk production this year will be up to the 1980 level, and possibly slightly above it. The Brussels agreement should mean an increase of at least 7p per gallon and possibly more. Indeed, when account is taken of the high calf prices, the dairy farmer will be benefiting to the tune of several pence more on top of that.

Cattle prices in recent times have been at record levels. The high prices for calves contrast sharply with the situation in 1974-75, when under the previous Government things were nearly at the stage where calves could not be given away for nothing. The present situation is very far from that.

It was the same last year.

We did not get everything we asked for in Brussels. No country does. But it is better to look for too much rather than for too little. I note that an Opposition spokesman alleged that we negotiated like children. That same spokesman, the then Minister for Agriculture, said here in the Dáil in 1975, and I quote:—

Unfortunately there are people still here who think I have only to go to Brussels and bang the table and get what I want.

Which he did.

The situation in Brussels has not altered and, as he well knows, getting something in negotiations there is a long hard struggle. Of course, I could have rejected last week's settlement but I had to weigh up the consequences. The price increases, worth about £20 million a month, would have been postponed, an MCA charge on our exports would have been introduced last Monday, and the special measures for Ireland, which I had secured, would have been put back again into the negotiations. Also, there was no guarantee that at an adjourned meeting at some future date we would get a calf subsidy. Indeed, the opposition of other member states was such that it became quite clear that they would not agree.

I am quite satisfied that we obtained everything that it was possible to get at this stage, while laying the groundwork for further progress in July next. The impact of the 1981-82 price decisions on our agricultural sector will play a major part in restoring confidence in farming and food processing by improving incomes, facilitating investment and productivity and leading to increased output. The decisions can be expected to increase the cost of living index by about 1¼ per cent and retail food prices by about 4 per cent in a full year. But we must remember that, not only here but in the Community as a whole, food price increases arising from the farmer's element in retail prices have fallen far behind the rise in other prices in recent years.

We must not forget either that in a country where agriculture has such a high relative importance the increased prosperity which the better prices and conditons of last week's price package will bring to the farm sector, will have favourable spill-over effects throughout the entire economy and will benefit everyone in this country.

There will be a number of speakers to the debate and I look forward to a constructive approach by them. It is in the interests of Irish agriculture and the farming community that we should have a constructive rather than a political approach to this debate, that Deputies would concentrate on the reality of the situation in which we live, bearing in mind the economic constraints at home and in Brussels. Since I became Minister for Agriculture I have been waiting to hear such constructive comments from Opposition Deputies but I have yet to hear them.

I am sorry to hear the Minister say that since he became Minister for Agriculture he has not heard constructive proposals from Fine Gael. Down through the years members of this party have fought to secure a reasonable standard of living for farmers. Since I was first elected to the House four years ago Fine Gael Deputies consistently have put forward constructive proposals on agriculture. The Minister said he welcomed the debate, but I propose to be as political in my contribution as the Minister has been. I see little hope in his speech for the agricultural community, because in the first place he failed to make a reasonable assessment of the farmers' overall position.

I realise that the Minister has been in office for only one and a half years, but in that period he has negotiated two price fixing agreements and I am sorry to say that neither was of benefit to the agricultural community. Never was there such a golden opportunity presented to the Government to get a realistic package for Irish farmers, but Fianna Fáil have been consistent in their failures in the field of agriculture. This year they had a golden opportunity but they failed again.

Irish farmers suffered a reduction in incomes in 1979-80 of 45 per cent. That is an established fact. An election in France is imminent and because of world prices moneys are being made available from EEC funds to other nations who have received certain concessions. However, Ireland was unable to secure a deal that would guarantee that our farmers would not take a further reduction in incomes for the third year running. The possibility is that there will be a 4 per cent reduction in 1981 to add to the 25 per cent reduction in 1980 and 20 per cent in 1979.

Fianna Fáil's administration has seriously damaged the agricultural industry in the past three years. Worst of all was the promise, the expectations built around these negotiations. Farmers were hoping for a worthwhile result and this has created further uncertainty among them. This is far too little and it has come far too late.

The motion covers three matters. The first is price-fixing, and the deal represents about 13 per cent. The other two mentioned by the Minister are the special package and Government measures during the year. This overall increase of 13 per cent looked good but there is a completely different picture when it is analysed.

It must be asked how much of the 13 per cent will reach the farmers' pockets. The Minister gave a figure of £215 million. How far will this go to meet the farmers' needs? In 1980 farmers' inputs cost about £1,200 million. A 16½ per cent increase in farmers' input costs in 1981 reckoned in the same way as 1980 would be approximately £1,400 million. That figure must be compared with an inflation rate of 20 per cent and this leaves a mere figure of £15 million to cover farmers' living expenses. It would just buy two packets of cigarettes for each of the 180,000 farmers and they would have to borrow the price of the matches. We hope things will not end up so badly. The mild winter has meant some savings for farmers, but this package means that farmers will have to cut back even further in 1981 inputs in order to retain some semblance of decent living standards. Farmers simply cannot take another 15 per cent drop in real incomes on top of the 45 per cent they took in the past two years.

Because of cutbacks in inputs and investment, farmers may arrive at a 4 per cent reduction in incomes this year. I am only talking about their 1981 position by comparison with 1980, and in this respect I will quote the President of the IFA, Mr. Donal Cashman, who last month spelled out the position. He said that to compensate for inflation since 1978 Irish farmers require £300 million on top of an EEC price rise of 15 per cent. He went on to say that the measures proposed by the Commission would do nothing to offset the excessive increases in major costs to Irish farmers, such as fertilisers, feedstuffs and energy. The IFA and the ICMSA have expressed total dissatisfaction at the results of this year's farm price negotiations in Brussels which, they say, will be disastrous for Irish farmers. They have demanded that the Government introduce supplementary measures. This is in line with independent estimates whose accuracy I have no reason to doubt.

Fine Gael never argued that the Irish Government should make up all of this shortfall. We have argued that the Government should go part of the way and make a substantial effort to alleviate the position of developing farmers who are now in serious financial difficulties. More and more farmers are coming into this category every month. The Minister said we never put forward a constructive suggestion. For his information, Fine Gael are committed to farmers through a package of short-term proposals. We are happy to say we forced the Government to adopt a portion of this package in the budget. I am now prepared to say that the present position of farmers warrants additional support. Fine Gael, in Government, are willing to give that aid.

Three factors relating to Irish agriculture were indisputable going into these negotiations. Irish farmers' incomes are among the lowest in the Community. They have deteriorated far more seriously over the past two years than in any other member state. Irish farmers are heading into 1981 with a sure prospect of the biggest rate of inflation, apart from Italy and Greece, in the Common Market. One could not conceive a more impressive array of statistics in support of Irish demands for exceptional treatment in these negotiations. As a poker player would describe it, the Minister has a full house. How then did he come out with such a bad result? Our case seemed to have been established in the European Parliament. In reply to a question from Deputy Noel Davern, the Commission recognised, that in real terms, the 1980 farm incomes in Ireland could be as much as 4 per cent lower than in 1972. It would take account of the situation in drawing up its proposals in the 1981-1982 price package. What happened? The outcome has been drastic for Ireland. Neither the Commission proposals nor the price fixing took any worth-while recognition of the exceptionally high rate of inflation facing Irish farmers. Let us take a closer look at what was agreed.

The average price increase from the EEC as a whole is around 11.3 per cent and is sufficient to cover inflation at 1981 levels. However, the results vary sharply when we look at the outcome for individual countries. We find that countries which have a low rate of inflation such as Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and France, are getting price increases in excess of their inflation rates. The high inflation countries are Italy, the UK and Ireland. Italy received a 16 per cent increase, plus a concession which the Minister did not even mention to cover its 21 per cent rate of inflation. The UK received 9.6 per cent against an inflation rate of around 13 per cent for 1980. It is expected that the inflation rate in the UK will drop in 1981. What may we expect in Ireland? We already have a 21 per cent rate of inflation. It is not known what it will be in three months time.

The Minister said that the UK had got a reduction as far as the importation of butter is concerned from New Zealand. I understand — I am subject to correction — that they have got agreement up to 1983 of 94,000 tonnes——

According to the Minister's speech it is 1982——

For the Deputy's information a figure for 1983 has yet to be agreed.

One thing is established as far as the UK are concerned. They are determined to hold on to 90,000 tonnes of butter imports per annum. This is a very large concession and it hits at the root of the Irish economy. We achieved a 13.9 per cent increase against an inflation rate of 18.2 per cent for 1980. Our latest inflation figures are 21 per cent. These results clearly demonstrate that Ireland fared disastrously in these negotiations. Irish farmers are being asked to make do with a 13 per cent price increase in a year when inflation could be well in excess of 20 per cent. This is not a new experience for farmers under Fianna Fail.

The Irish Times of Thursday, 2 April summed up our influence in Brussels and the results of our negotiations:

The Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, had been pressing for this calf breeding bonus, which he considered an essential part of this year's agreement. This diplomatic move failed...

In spite of the domestic importance to Ireland of the calf subsidy, the Government decided that on balance it was better not to offence the bigger Powers...

A face-saving form of words was being drafted last night, saying that by mid-July the Commission would bring forward fresh proposals for Irish farmers. The application of any such proposals was regarded as unlikely to be effective in the current marketing year. Almost certainly, it will not include a calf subsidy.

This has been the trend for the past two years as far as the Government are concerned. It is always "live horse, and you will get grass". There is something around the next corner. We are just about to get it but we cannot. This is of very little benefit to farmers facing a difficult situation at present. These have been the proposals which the Minister has been putting forward all the time. I have told the farming organisations to call the Minister's bluff on this occasion. How far more can the Minister go? How far more can the Minister drag the farmers behind him on a rope? They are the questions the Minister must answer and which should have been answered in his speech this evening. That is why we asked for the debate. With all due respects, the Minister's speech was only a lecture of what took place in Brussels——

We thought Fine Gael did not know it.

We did know it. In 1980, the Minister brought home a five per cent increase which turned out to be a drop of 2½ per cent for a year in which inflation reached 18.3 per cent. That was when we had celebrations at the airport because the Minister had brought back such a marvellous package. This type of exercise has worn itself out and, for God's sake, stop it. Be honest with the farmers and tell them where they stand. In 1979 the Minister brought home a package giving a 1.2 per cent rise for a year in which inflation amounted to 13.2 per cent. In other words, price agreements from Brussels have not matched the Irish inflation rate. I am sorry, it was Deputy Gibbons who brought back the 1.2 per cent. That was worse. At least the present Minister improved on that.

The alarming thing is there are no indications that this trend will not continue under a Fianna Fáil Government if they are in power for the next three years. It is a deadly serious matter, not just for the Irish farmer but for the whole country. In three years Fianna Fáil have not woken up to this reality. They appear to have no strategy to combat it. Fine Gael have a strategy, portion of which I will deal with later. Of the 13.9 per cent, about which the Minister speaks so loudly, he allows 3.9 per cent for green £ devaluation. 1½ per cent of this rise is a special franchise mechanism. One effect of this will be to lift intervention prices by this amount. It will not apply to MCAs or export refunds. The remainder of the 3.9 per cent will apply. In view of the fact that intervention prices for milk, beef and cereals are not operating at present, it is doubtful, therefore, to what extent, if any, this 1½ per cent will apply. It may have some bearing on beef in the fall of the year. If the Minister were to tell the whole truth and analyse it properly, the package from Brussels is nearer to about 12 per cent than to 13.9 per cent. That is as far as the farmer's pocket is concerned which is what I am interested in. There are other hidden deductions, first the increase in the co-responsibility levy on milk from 2 per cent to 2.5 per cent. The Minister must be severely criticised for allowing this to be increased in disadvantaged areas.

The Minister accepted an increase in the co-responsibility levy that he should have resisted to the end, particularly with regard to the first 12,800 gallons which was won as a concession in last year's agreement. There was also the matter of a co-responsibility levy on beet. This principle is unacceptable to this country and is a new departure. It appeared it was conceded during the negotiations in return for some later concessions. However, not one iota of a concession was won by the Minister in the final stages. What it meant was a loss of approximately £1 million to our beet growers. When the Minister was questioned about the matter at the time he gave the impression he was getting further concessions provided he gave way on the 2 per cent. I am a beet grower and I know the facts of the situation. We took a loss on the crop last year but the Minister did not help us this year. The farmers were asked to extend the acreage. It is a labour-intensive crop and I agree with the Minister on this point. However, he must be condemned for giving away £1 million in respect of beet.

We got 5 per cent over and above what was proposed.

The question is, what is the increased cost of the crop? That is the question the farmers are asking. It is no use talking about a 5 per cent increase when the cost of the crop will go up by 15 per cent. The Minister saw fit to give away £1 million of the farmers' money but he did not get any other concessions.

We got an extra 5 per cent.

That is not so. The Minister allowed 2 per cent to be taken as a co-responsibility levy on the A quota that is consumed within the country. The important point is the Minister has allowed a co-responsibility levy to be put on produce consumed within the EEC. So far as Ireland is concerned, there has been a very serious development in this area.

There will be a further deduction from the 13.9 per cent, in that in respect of beef 2:5 per cent is being held until December 1981. For some unexplainable reason the 8 per cent increase initially proposed for suckler cow subsidy was lost in the final negotiations. The Minister did not explain that matter.

A further indictment of the Minister's negotiations are the concessions won by other countries such as Italy. They won a substantial improvement in their sugar quota. From the farmers' point of view it was unfortunate and disappointing that the Minister failed to get the calf subsidy. The Minister gave the impression that he would obtain the subsidy and this encouraged people to buy calves. They were encouraged to believe that they would get a subsidy of £22. The Minister should not make announcements before agreements are reached.

The price did not drop last week.

The price dropped £20 per head. It is obvious the Minister is not dealing in the market place. I have sold calves practically every week since Christmas and I am telling the Minister the facts. The moment the negotiations closed the price of calves dropped £20 per head.

The price of calves is gone up by 40 per cent.

Those are the facts and I have pointed them out to the Minister. He cannot deny that Italy won its case. In the programme "Landmark" the Minister stated that it was intended to phase out the subsidy so far as Italy was concerned. I have looked at the minutes of the meeting but it is not entered in those minutes. The Minister is just making excuses for his own failure.

I said it again today.

There is no documentary evidence to say that the subsidy will be phased out so far as Italy is concerned. The Italians will be there next year and they will fight to get their calf subsidy again. Had we won the concession sought it would have amounted to approximately £35 million. It would be the difference between failure and success. I see no reason why the Minister should have had to telephone the Taoiseach about the matter. He is our man in Europe and should be able to do his job. The Minister should have stayed at the negotiating table until he got the same concession as was given to Italy. It was weakness on the part of the Minister to phone the Taoiseach and ask him for his advice on such a vital issue.

He rang me.

Between the Taoiseach and the Minister we lost the case.

We gained a lot more.

The Minister got very little when he gave away £1 million with regard to beet. One of the more serious aspects of the present situation is the continuing run-down of the inputs into agriculture. I should like to bring to the attention of the Minister the fact that tractor sales are down by 60 per cent, farm machinery sales down by 50 per cent, sale of farm building materials down by 60 per cent, compound feedstuffs down by 15 per cent, cattle feeds down by 22 per cent, fertilisers down by from 15 per cent to 25 per cent and the sale of lime down by 50 per cent. This is a very serious matter so far as increased production is concerned. Lime is a basic essential to our Irish soil. Without the proper level of lime maximum performance cannot be obtained. I should like to bring to the notice of the Minister the 1980 report with regard to ground limestone. In 1977 some 1.9 million tons were used; 2 million tons of lime were used in 1978; in 1979 in the famous budget introduced by Deputy Colley the rot started and there was a reduction in the amount of lime used: in that year 1.5 million tons were used. In 1980 there was a further reduction to 900,000 tons. In all, there has been a reduction of approximately 50 per cent. This is a very serious trend. The concession of £2.50 per tonne will do nothing to improve the situation. I understand the quarries are looking for an increase of 40 per cent and this will not help the situation. From the figures available at the moment it is obvious that there will be a further reduction in 1981.

What are the Deputy's sources in this matter?

If the Minister contacts the quarries he will get the figures. Job losses in this area are quite considerable and the situation will deteriorate. The servicing side of agriculture is crumbling by the hour. Machinery that is not in good condition is being used on our farms. In the budgets of 1979 and 1980 Fianna Fáil members said farms were over-mechanised. If one talks to farmers about this matter their reply will be that they are using more welding rods than new machinery. When farmers are engaged on silage work it is essential that modern, efficient machinery is used.

If agriculture is to develop, we must ensure there will be profits. If the profit is not there there will be no confidence in the industry. The real cancer that has plagued our farmers is inflation and the Government stand discredited in allowing our inflation to get completely out of control, thereby damaging not alone the agricultural industry but the entire economy. The agricultural industry is exposed to inflation and unless and until that is brought under control no real progress or expansion can be expected. How the Government could be so blatantly careless about so important an issue as Fianna Fáil have been for the past three years in particular, I do not know. We have seen high inflation do permanent damage to even the strongest of foreign economies, and I wish to use this debate deliberately to highlight the cancer which is eating away at our economy to the detriment of every citizen in the nation.

We should not expect the EEC to make up the losses to farming due to high inflation. Here we must blame our national Government for taking the lid off as far back as 1978 and allowing the economy of this nation to run amok. They were the good boys to everybody, giving everything to everybody, but in the final analysis they gave nothing to anybody. Inflation over this three year period is having disastrous effects on the entire economy and particularly on agriculture. For a while back we have heard the Minister and his Ministers of State talking about the greater level of efficiency and saying that to increase their incomes farmers should become more efficient. The level of efficiency will be based on the margins of profits available and while present conditions last agriculture will become less efficient.

If you want farmers to become more efficient in milk production, better grassland management, re-seeding, progeny testing, culling cows and better houses, the way is through profit margins. Will the Minister tell the farmers how to carry out these improvements without incurring further capital expenditure? If you talk to any farmer at the moment would he tell you that he is going to borrow another £10,000 or £12,000 to become more efficient? Ask him if it will pay him to do so and you will get your answer very quickly, and the same will apply to all lines of farming, beef, cereals or sheep. It appears that the Minister believes that the level of efficiency can be brought about without further expenditure while he supplies all the advice from the advisory service. The reality is that efficiency requires modernisation and modernisation requires expenditure. The Minister's call about efficiency is now regarded as armchair farming or behind-desk farming far removed from reality. Calling for efficiency at this stage, when people find it extremely difficult to meet their commitments to the banks and ACC, does not make sense.

We need to convince Brussels of the vulnerable position of our Irish economy to inflation pressures through imports from Britain which has one of the highest inflation rates in the EEC at over 13 per cent last year. This, coupled with the rise in sterling, related to the IR£, has driven up Irish import prices enormously. The important point for Ireland is that 50 per cent of our imports come from the UK while no more than 10 per cent of the imports of other EEC countries come from Britain. This is the unique position of Ireland and the Minister has failed to impress this point on Mr. Dalsager. Following this, I find it ludicrous that a common level of price increases was proposed for countries like Ireland with an inflation rate of 21 per cent and Holland, for example, with an inflation rate of 6 per cent. If there were proper recognition of our position the proposal should be 15 to 20 per cent for Ireland and 5 per cent for the low inflation countries.

No doubt the Minister has the inflation rates of the EEC countries but I will bring them to his notice. The document I have here is Agra-Europe of 3 April 1981, page 5 and it states: Belgium, farm price increases 10.4 per cent, current inflation 7 per cent; Denmark, price increase 12.4, current inflation 10.7 per cent; West Germany, price increase 4.8 per cent, current inflation 5.7 per cent; France, price increase 12.4 per cent, current inflation 12.9 per cent; Ireland, price increase 13.9 per cent, current inflation 18.2 per cent; Italy, price increase 16.2 per cent, inflation 21 per cent; Luxembourg, price increase 10.4 per cent, inflation 7.3 per cent; Netherlands, price increase 10.4 per cent, current inflation 7.1 per cent; UK, price increase 9.6 per cent, current inflation 13 per cent. That is the position we find ourselves in as a nation. We cannot blame the EEC for our inflation rates but in this price-fixing negotiation these things should have been taken into consideration. The present set-up will put the farmers across Europe in a very sound position while the income of farmers in Ireland is reducing further. The Minister has failed to impress this point in his negotiations. If it had been pressed he should have been in a position to get a far better deal. Could I ask how much time I have left?

Your time finishes at 6.26 p.m.

Can I take the five minutes that the Minister left over?

Acting Chairman

No, you have 45 minutes to make your speech and you finish at 6.26 p.m.

An important point I wish to make is the question of the Minister getting these concessions from Europe and refusing or failing to pay them out. I write to him and his Ministers of State time and time again about silage grants, suckler grants, hogget grants and lamb grants. I am getting a reasonable response from him, but why in God's name are these grants not paid out at the proper time? The Minister's record has been and still is to hold on to these grants, or a certain number of them. I cannot understand why, because the objective of these grants in certain cases, particularly the silage, suckler, hogget and ewe grants, is that they would be collected by the farmers before the winter begins.

In no other year were they paid out.

I ask the Minister to hear me out. Particularly in a year like this, knowing that the situation is very difficult, it is the duty of the Minister and his Ministers of State to ensure that these grants are paid out at the right time to allow farmers to buy extra feed. Even this week I have a few letters in to the Minister about grants not being paid out. I do not know how many and the Minister has the figures. It is scandalous if he is going to allow this to continue. He knew the difficult feed situation for 1981. If he had had the farmers' interest at heart he would have paid these grants on time to guarantee that the farmers would have the money in their hand to buy the extra feed they required.

What is the position with the farming community at the moment, with all the good farmers borrowing heavily, with bank interest rates due in March, the ACC bills being prepared for 1 May, inflation running at 20 per cent and no protection from the Minister? Yet there is no protection from the Minister and no commitment on the part of the Government. It would seem to the ordinary farmer that the Government are not even aware that a crisis actually exists. The Minister knows the level of borrowing by the farming community at the moment — it is about £1,300 million. How many times did the Minister meet the banks and the Agricultural Credit Corporation? The Minister made great play of the fact that the Government saw to it that £100 million was brought in at low interest rates. The fact is that that loan had a very short repayment period as far as principal was concerned so that it was of very little benefit to the agricultural community because the repayments were far too high. I asked the Minister on a number of occasions how often he met the banks and the Agricultural Credit Corporation to put the farmers' case and to ask them not to resort ot sharp tactics. The Minister made one statement that anybody who was being harrassed by the banks should contact him immediately. As far as I know, the Minister has not met the people concerned with operation agricultual finance. It is important to say that I saw fit to state our case to the Agricultural Credit Corporation and to tell them of the difficulties and the policies they should adopt to alleviate some of the hardships that farmers will have to face in 1980-81. What did the Minister do in regard to that issue?

Where was the Deputy in September?

I was here.

The Deputy must not have been reading the news.

I was hoping to have time to go into the Minister's speech but I have not got the time. However, there is one thing that I cannot let the Minister away with. That is the question of the great work he did in the budget by giving £35 million to the farmers. But the Minister did mention that he imposed a disease levy of £10 million in the 1979 Budget. So it was not such a big deal when he took it on in 1981.

The Minister did the same with the rate subsidy. He made great play of the fact that he took off the rates in 1981. This type of thing is not fooling anybody. These are the areas where the Government started the rot. The Government extracted tax from the farmers that was not related to income. The Minister has done a great deal of damage but he seems to think that he is doing a great deal in 1981 by removing something he imposed two years ago.

It is nice to be responsible for removing them.

The Government are responsible for doing damage on the one hand and, on the other hand claim to do a great deal by taking it off. That is not going to do the farmers any good at the moment.

The Minister stated that full relief of rates was granted to farmers with valuations under £50 and 50 per cent relief was granted to farmers with valuations between £50 and £70. Does the Minister realise that people sold cattle at very bad prices to pay the rates that were due in 1980? The Government came along and gave back the rates at a later stage, but the damage had already been done. The same has happened in relation to the disease levies and other things imposed in the 1979 budget. This is where the Government have fallen down and that is where they have done the damage. Now we hear speeches daily about the good they have done with these great concessions given to agriculture in the 1981 budget.

I am sorry that, because of lack of time, I am unable to go into the issues in the Minister's speech. This is the fourth year of price negotiations by Fianna Fáil and what a low score they secured during that time. Let me compare the achievements of this administration with the achievements of the previous administration under Deputy Mark Clinton. In the four years of Fianna Fáil's administration they managed to get plus 30 per cent for milk; Deputy Clinton got 104 per cent in his four years. For beef, Fianna Fáil got plus 30 per cent; Deputy Clinton got 128 per cent. Fianna Fáil achieved plus 22 per cent in their four years for grain; Deputy Clinton achieved 105 per cent in his four years. These figures exclude transitional and other adjustments to the common prices but they include the green £ devaluation. These figures clearly show who brought back the benefits from Brussels and it certainly was not Fianna Fáil.

(Interruptions.)

I therefore move the following amendment:

To delete all words after "measures;" and substitute:—

"and expresses its dissatisfaction at these inadequate measures in view of the fact that there has been a drop of nearly 45 per cent in farmers' incomes in the last two years."

I will try to give my own view and the view of my party on the general agricultural scene as defined in the Minister's statement. It is generally accepted that over the past year there has been a very serious crisis in agriculture, which of course is our principal industry and indeed our principal natural resource. There has been a serious cutback in the incomes of people directly engaged in agriculture over that period. As in every other walk of life the lower paid, the small farmers, suffer most in such circumstances. When one finds that one's income, which is only providing a very limited livelihood, is cut by as much as 40 per cent, then one is in serious trouble. The vast bulk of farmers are in this category. In the seven counties in the eastern region of ACOT the average size of holdings is less than 50 statute acres. That will surprise a lot of people who think of large ranches in Meath and Kildare. But these people with small holdings are in serious financial difficulties and the Minister agrees that that is so. That is basically what we are talking about when the Minister refers to all the things he has done to help those people.

As well as that, these people have been encouraged by the Minister and his Department and advisers that they were in for a bonanza and that all they had to do was invest money and develop their potential. They were encouraged to borrow money. They were encouraged by the banks, who fired money around so that some of these people could buy land. But everybody knew that the acre of land which the banks were firing money around to buy could in no way be made viable or made to produce enough to pay the interest rate on the money.

When the interest rate jumped from an average 10 per cent up as high as 17 to 18 per cent, these people were in dire trouble. This is the basis of the whole problem in agriculture over the last two years. The situation became aggravated when the farmers found that they were not able to repay this money for land which they had to buy, improvements which they had been encouraged to carry out on buildings and in regard to land reclamation. The banks gave out money easily and the progressive farmers, the average size farmers, were encouraged to do these things and almost guaranteed, you might say, that they were doing the right thing. They found then that the money which they had invested was, in most cases. producing nothing. The interest had to be paid on it and they started selling off valuable stock to pay interest on their loans.

I know of some small farmers who were in such a state that they applied to the health board for subsistence. I have said this before in the House and can produce those people. They owe money to our financial institutions some of which are proposing to demand extra interest if farmers want to extend their loans. Some farmers are concerned at the restrictive measures being introduced on loans which they cannot repay. In that situation we talk about price increases. Everyone likes to think that he has made a great bargain and I am not blaming the Minister personally — he may have done his best but it was not good enough. When you are dealing with an 18 per cent inflation rate and the people are getting an increase of only 13 per cent — even if they get the entire 13 per cent, which we all know that they will not — how can anyone say that this increase is something to be proud of?

I appreciate that it is not easy for anyone from our country to negotiate with the other nine Ministers, but we in this House have a duty to make it possible for these people to survive and they will not survive on the 13 per cent increase. The Minister has acknowledged that these people are in dire trouble but that is not enough. If a man was hungry at the existing rate of inflation two or three years ago and another 18 to 20 per cent goes on to that inflation rate, he will die of hunger. The farmer is in a comparable position.

The Minister boasted in the budget about what he did but the basic question is, has he brought the small farmer any help? That is the man I am interested in, not the man whose income has dropped from £30,000 to £20,000. I am talking about the man who is the backbone of the farming industry and is on a subsistence allowance. The increase of 13 per cent is more than eaten up by the inflation rate. It is the Government's duty, through the Central Bank or in some other way, to forbid the imposition of crippling penalties on people who are unable to repay their loans or who want loans extended for a term, as is happening at present. It is the duty of the Government to take control, if necessary, of those financial institutions so that that policy will not be implemented. If the Government have not control of investment and of the method of investing advantageously in certain necessary areas, they will not be able to carry out a programme or a policy. Down through the years we have been unable to do this.

There is no doubt in anyone's mind — and the Minister, if he is honest, will admit as much — that the small farmer who was very near the breadline last year is worse off now with the increases coming from Brussels. He has not solved the problem of his debts. These people are trying to advance the output of the nation and carry out improvements in the agricultural sector. A very good case can be made to force the financial institutions to take a lower interest rate. If we have not legal authority to do that, we must negotiate a fairly substantial subsidy to free these people from their crippling financial burden.

The effects of these crippling interest rates flow over into the agricultural service industry. Only last week I spoke to a man who has 30 people employed mostly in the agricultural service industry, but also in the motor sector. That man has in stock 12 Fordson tractors, each worth £12,000 to £16,000, and he is surviving for the last year on the sale of spare parts. He just cannot sell the tractors to the farmers and the 30 jobs are in danger. No farmer will borrow without a clear understanding of what his interest rate will be over the period of the loan and he fears that the same thing will happen again, that the interest rates will jump from 10 per cent to 16 per cent during the term of his loan. If we cannot control interest rates we cannot control anything. There is no use in people saying they can produce an economic plan or a plan for agriculture if they cannot control the interest rates of our financial institutions and if they cannot control investment and give preferential treatment to productive investment in agriculture.

It is very seldom that anyone on this side of the House can say so, but I agree totally with one thing in the Fianna Fáil manifesto. "Manifesto" is a dirty word with Fianna Fáil now, but their manifesto stated that agriculture should form the main thrust of the recovery of the economy. That was said at the time when the Minister's party were going to get the country moving. They got it moving backwards.

In reverse.

Be that as it may, that was the sentiment expressed in the manifesto. I agree thoroughly with it. I also agree with the next part of it, which says that the volume of output must be raised. It has not been raised. In fact there was a reduction in milk production last year of about 3 per cent.

What appeared on paper in the manifesto was right and I subscribe to it. It goes on to say — and this is the real laugh: "and everything we produce must be processed and packaged through to consumption stage". But it is too serious for laughing. We know what happened in the processing industry and we know why. I can quote an article by Aengus Fanning, agricultural correspondent, in yesterday's Independent reporting on a press conference held by the meat processors. I need only read this article to condemn the price package that the Minister brought home. I shall only quote a short extract which says that more than 25,000 jobs have been created abroad in factories which process Irish feed and cattle exports, while at home 2,500 meat plant workers have been laid off. This is in an economy where we have 126,000 registered unemployed. This was the alarming picture, the correspondent says, presented by the country's meat export industry at a Dublin news conference two days ago at which the grim warning was issued that more factory closures were inevitable unless there was urgent remedial action from the Government and the EEC.

There is no remedial action; nothing is being done. There is no marketing of our product. In talking of the service industries I have mentioned and the small farmers we include over 45 per cent of our population, and this is the greatest potential area for job creation that exists in our present circumstances. The Government have failed to exploit this potential in any way. The agricultural correspondent I have quoted, I think the Minister will agree, is a fair commentator and has often praised the Minister when he thought he deserved it, but this is the report that he gives on this situation. I believe the meat processors were not interested in political considerations but in saving the industry which is giving much-needed employment that is now dwindling. It seems nothing is being done to improve the situation. I know that the Minister has brought in a Bill to set up a marketing board, but nothing is being done to market our produce properly or to encourage people to add value to our produce at the factories. These factories are in unfair competition with live exports to places outside the EEC where they will obtain a bigger subsidy. This is what the processors are complaining about, if I were to quote the whole article. The Department and the Minister, it appears, are allowing this great industry to dwindle and fall by the wayside. If that happens it will be a sad day for beef producers, those who produce store cattle or anything else and it will be particularly sad for those employed on the processing side.

We have a duty to put this before the Government and ask what will be done to rectify the situation. As the Minister knows, our live cattle exports, some of which are going to Libya, have gone up and up while the number available for processing in the factories has dwindled. I agree with the Minister that the price at present is good. But is it true that there is a greater subsidy for exporting live cattle outside the EEC than there is for exporting fresh meat? If that is true it is something we cannot accept; it is something the Minister should thump the table about. I believe there is some little concession in the British situation where we are driving cattle over the Border. The Minister is not far from that area and he knows where it is worth £100. There is some relief in that, but we still have not reached an equitable situation.

It is ridiculous to suggest that because Britain is a food exporting country, factories in Northern Ireland should be in a more advantageous position than factories across the Border. We cannot continue to accept that. It is the Minister's duty to see that the meat processors have a marketing agency properly geared to assess the market, to know what is required and ensure that our factories are producing it and getting the highest possible price available on all markets. We have a duty to see that the processors have an equal opportunity with the live exporters no matter where the exports go. We should accept no agreement which would debar us from achieving that situation, because it is vital that we should use the potential of our meat industry to give employment and help our balance of payments. It is economic madness to sell the beef without the processing and the employment involved in processing.

I do not suggest nor do I think anybody suggests — and I have discussed this with people in the trade union movement — that live exports should be stopped altogether. I think that is not practicable at this point. But I say that no Minister should accept the situation in which there would be an advantage in exporting live to Libya or some other place over exporting fresh meat. That seems to be the case, according to the meeting to which I referred held only two days ago. They are calling for action. In addition, during the past few years there has been a reduction of more than 450,000 in our cattle numbers. That should not have been allowed happen. It is something that will not be capable of being put right overnight.

Both the Minister and his predecessor are aware that the main reason for this drop in numbers was that we allowed our calves to be exported in large numbers to Italy. Naturally, the dairy man selling calves will be anxious to get the best price possible but we should have introduced, as I advocated here two-and-a-half years ago, a calf levy equal to that which was available to those in Italy and elsewhere who were buying our calves. Our failure in this area led to our calves being exported at a time when they should have been kept at home in order to keep up our herd numbers. We will now have to spend from two to three years building up our herd again. It is of vital importance that we begin immediately so far as that task is concerned, not only in terms of the welfare of our farmers but in terms of the welfare of our economy generally. What has happened in this respect can be compared with the situation in the famine years when the people were so hungry that they ate the seed potatoes with the result that there were none for planting in the following years.

The Government should be at liberty to introduce a calf subsidy at the same rate as those subsidies which apply in other EEC countries in this respect. While we are awaiting the necessary action being taken, the herd numbers continue to decline and people in other countries have an advantage over us in terms of buying calves. It is likely that irreparable harm has been done by the export of so many of our calves, especially heifer calves, to date. We should be encouraging calf-to-beef development. I understand that there are new methods whereby this procedure can be effected in two years. If we are not able to get from the EEC the necessary moneys to subsidise over calf producers, we must tackle the task ourselves. I do not have much confidence in the Minister's promise in this regard for July next. Action is needed immediately! it is already long overdue.

Another area of failure so far as the Minister is concerned is that of the vegetable processing industry. In the Carlow area local farmers who contracted during the past few years for the supply of 1,000 acres of vegetables per year to the Erin Food plant there are being told that this plant is to close at the end of June. In a letter to me the Minister's secretary informed me that the Minister was looking to the IDA for a replacement for this industry. That was some time ago. I was informed that the board of the Sugar Company had decided to close this plant at Carlow. This, in itself, is a reflection of the policy being pursued by the Government so far as agriculture is concerned. What the IDA would have in mind would be a replacement industry but where would this leave the vegetable growers concerned? It appears that no attempt was made by anyone to assess what was needed in the market with the result that we continued with the dehydrating food processing procedure long after that was out-dated and when we should have been proceeding to frozen food processing.

It has been said that our imports of food are to the extent of £450 million. In fairness it should be said that not all of these foodstuffs would have been agricultural products. Presumably, the figures included also imports of fruit, tea and so on but we are aware that there were imported directly competing goods to the value of £150 million. It is disgraceful that the Minister and the Government should have allowed this to happen. It is a national disgrace that a country in which is to be found perhaps the best land in the world so far as the production of vegetables is concerned, should have imported foodstuffs 8 to 10 per cent of which was in direct competition with foodstuffs grown at home.

In their manifesto, Fianna Fáil declared that agriculture should form the main thrust of the recovery of our economy, that the volume of our output should be increased and that everything we produced should be processed. The failures of the Government that I have highlighted here this evening put that manifesto into perspective. The Government have reneged totally on what was promised in that document.

I am concerned about the people who are employed in the food processing industry just as I am concerned about the farmers. These people are just about earning a living. Can the Minister tell us of anything that he has done to resolve the problems? Has any effort been made to implement the undertakings in the manifesto in terms of agriculture? The Minister should admit that no such effort has been made. We hear of nothing but closures in the vegetable processing industry. In the meat processing industry 2,500 people have lost their jobs and the predictions are that the situation will become worse unless positive action is taken by the Government or by the EEC, or by both, to remedy the situation.

I do not know what the Minister's intention is but I should like to hear from him in this regard. There is no use giving us the same kind of crap that is in that manifesto unless there is some positive action taken immediately to carry it out because absolutely nothing has been done in that area except to effect redundancies, closures and so on.

Smaller farmers throughout the country over the years have hired people who set themselves up as agricultural contractors. At one time a farmer could reclaim the VAT but the VAT on these people's work now constitutes a crippling imposition on small farmers. People have been getting out of this activity completely, people who undertook work for small farmers, people who set themselves up with machinery to undertake work on a hired basis for farmers. These people find now that they must collect VAT, which has increased. This increases the cost of that man's administration and also that of the farmer. At one time a farmer was exempt from VAT and could reclaim it if he had to pay it, and apparently in most cases he did not pay it at all. This is an impossible situation for small farmers, those who cannot afford to purchase the necessary machinery themselves. Because of this VAT imposition they are unable to get anyone to undertake the necessary work on their land. It constitutes a crippling burden and has put most of these people out of business. Most of them have given up the business completely on account of this surcharge.

I want to refer now to the small farmers in particular, those who have borrowed and owe money over the past two years. I have been told by people in this position that the banks, and even the ACC, a Government agency, have called them in and warned that if they are unable to meet their commitments there will be a surcharge on their loans. I want to know from the Minister if that is correct and, if so, what he intends doing about it. We in the Labour Party believe that the Government should have control of the financial institutions. We are not saying this just for sport. Indeed, listening to people talking about that statement of the Labour Party sometimes one would think we were going to take a gun, go in and take over the banks. Indeed, while on that subject, some people are doing that already.

Not the Labour Party.

No, not the Labour Party, but there are plenty at that. That is another day's work. But we are saying that a Government that cannot control investment, cannot ensure that subsidised investment is available in the areas most in need of it, particularly agriculture because of its job creation potential and because of the balance of payments position, is completely ineffective. Money borrowed with a view to increased productivity should be made available at a subsidised rate so that these people can make some attempt at paying. This high interest rate has discouraged farmers and meant that it will be impossible to get a farmer who may have borrowed over the last three or four years to do so again. He has been crippled by these rising interest rates while his income has fallen. He will not go into that situation again unless he is given an undertaking that money will be available to him at a reasonable rate of interest, that the Government either have power, or will take power, to ensure that money is made available to these people at a favourable rate.

There is no use saying that these farmers should go and talk to the banks. There is no experience like that of the practical, down to earth type of the unfortunate man who owes this money in the bank. I know from these people that they are being told that if they cannot meet their commitments now — and that is obvious — there will be a surcharge on their interest over a period of years. It is about time action was taken in this direction. I believe this is happening in the Government-sponsored money lending agency, the ACC. If it is not, let the Minister say so. Certainly, it is happening in commercial banks and I have evidence of it.

Perhaps 13 per cent was as much as the Minister could achieve, but that is not sufficient. I think we have proved beyond doubt here that it is not sufficient in the case of the farmer who found himself in that situation two to three years ago. Certainly, it is not sufficient with an inflation rate of up to 20 per cent and which has every sign of being 21 per cent next year, according to current predictions. The Minister knows quite well that a lot of the 13 per cent he mentioned will not go into the farmer's pockets. I know that and so does anybody else connected with the business in any way. It is a rate of 13 per cent on people who were already working from a very low base, people who were almost on the poverty line at the time the Minister started to talk about the 13 per cent. Therefore 13 per cent, when considered against an inflation rate of 21 per cent before year end, will not be sufficient to maintain a farmer even at last year's level. It was acknowledged here by everybody, including the Minister, that farmer's incomes had dropped drastically last year.

The Minister set up the CBF last year. Would he tell us what, if anything, they are doing to ensure that our beef is properly processed? As was said in the manifesto, we must produce, we must process and package through to the consumption stage. Has any progress been made on that? Is anything being done to market our beef, vegetables and agricultural produce generally? We had people here who went to tremendous trouble to purchase the necessary equipment to grade their potatoes in accordance with an EEC directive. Now we have potatoes being imported from outside the EEC, not graded at all, which are being thrown onto the Irish market, coming in, I understand, through illegal routes, in competition with the home-grown potato. Yet they are not of a quality fit for human consumption. We are not doing anything to protect these people who have invested heavily. Have our Government, our processors and packers done anything to protect the native producer of potatoes? At present there are on sale throughout the country packaged oven chips from outside the EEC — one brings them home and pops them in the oven — while our potatoes remain marketed at a ridiculously low price. In the election manifesto on which the Minister's party was elected there was an undertaking given that we would process all our food. Has the Minister carried out any investigation of this situation? Have they made any advance in that area? If they have not they stand condemned and they should have the decency to admit that and resign.

The recent agreement on agricultural prices has to be viewed against a background of budgetary problems within the EEC and the known opposition of certain member states to a high price increase. At the same time, it is a fact that farmers' incomes have declined seriously over the past two years not alone here but in the EEC generally. The Government recognise the special difficulties of our own farmers and do not need to be convinced of the need to restore growth and prosperity in the agricultural sector as quickly as possible. The agreement negotiated last week by the Minister for Agriculture is a tremendous step forward towards the attainment of the objective that our agriculture sector is in a position to work at full capacity. Indeed, it is fair to say that never before has the annual EEC price fixing been of such importance for us.

The reasons for the decline in agricultural incomes are well known and analysed. The industry has been caught in a price cost squeeze. Following a period of exceptional growth in prices after our entry to EEC, our farmers found themselves in a situation where price increases no longer compensated them for rising costs. The main thrust of the Government's policy on agriculture has been directed towards reversing this situation. Considerable time and attention has been devoted the problem because it is essential for our economic well-being that our agriculture is at full strength. The Government have shown their commitment to agriculture and their determination to solve the problems through the various measures they have taken to help the farming community during the past year. For example, last autumn swift and effective action was taken to solve the problems that existed then as regards supplies of fodder. The result was that many thousands of farmers were helped to avert what could have been a serious fodder shortage. Later on in the year, action was taken to help farmers with credit difficulties by means of Euro-loans through the ACC and the associated banks and the remission of the second moiety of the rates. These were areas of particular concern to farmers at that time and the Government showed they were willing to act.

An area crucial to the immediate financial position of farmers is the system of agricultural rates. Arising from the budget, farmers under £50 rateable valuation have full relief, and those between £50 and £70 RV get 50 per cent relief. These measures benefit 49,000 farmers and mean a reduction of £19.6 million in the farmers' rates bill for 1981. The situation now is that of the 150,000 farmers in this country 125,000 no longer pay any rates. In Wexford, in which Deputy D'Arcy will be interest, 3,500 farmers from a total of 5,000 will not have to pay rates this year. These concessions are of real benefit to farmers and, like the other measures I have mentioned, concentrate on areas suggested in negotiations by the farm organisations. The measures taken in the autumn and more recently in the budget were worth almost £75 million to the farming community. They are worthwhile and cannot be dismissed as being of no benefit.

The recent prices package has been the most significant boost Irish agriculture has received for many years and complements the other measures taken by the Government. The outcome from these negotiations has been most satisfactory and those who claim otherwise are ignoring the reality of the situation.

When Deputy D'Arcy talks about his colleague, Deputy Clinton, it reminds me that he is a member of the European Parliament that voted for a 12 per cent increase for farmers this year. I did not hear him speaking too loudly about that.

Plus the devaluation which will be 16 per cent.

As a result of decisions taken by the Agricultural Council, Irish farm prices will be increased in 1981 by almost 14 per cent. When account is taken of the budgetary situation and the attitude of some other member states, the outcome represents an excellent negotiating achievement. In these circumstances it is easy to see that the best possible outcome was secured for Irish farmers and that there was nothing further to be gained. To have protracted the negotiating by holding out for some further benefit which might or might not have been achieved would have meant the loss of about £20 million per month in immediate gain to our farmers.

The deal means an injection of £215 million into Irish agriculture with an additional £26 million for the second year of the Irish package. By any standards that is significant money and would have been unthinkable a few months ago.

When Deputy D'Arcy spoke earlier I was not here but I was listening to him. Some few months ago they were going to solve all the evils of Irish agriculture with a six point plan which, so far as I could see, they must have got from the daily papers. If I remember rightly it amounted to £70 million.

That is right.

Our significant package which we have brought in not only from our own means but also from Brussels far exceeds the £70 million Deputy D'Arcy was talking about.

The £70 million was for the short-term.

Furthermore, because the negotiations were concluded early, farmers know where they stand as regards prices and for the first time in many years the marketing year can commence on schedule. It is strange to hear certain people condemning the attainment of an early agreement. The milk aspect of the agreement is particularly satisfactory with an increase of almost 9p per gallon of which 1p is to provide for increased processing costs. A major benefit has been the removal of the threat of the super levy. From the outset the Minister for Agriculture has been vehement in his opposition to this proposal. Our dairy farmers can face the future with confidence and with the guarantee of a satisfactory price and the removal of the threat of penalties on increased production. This is important for the development of our dairy industry.

As regards beef, the producer support price will be raised immediately by 9p per lb and this will be increased to over 10p per lb by the end of the year. When we consider the importance of beef production in this country the value of this increase is apparent. In addition, the Minister for Agriculture secured two important concessions in the beef sector. We have been allowed to maintain our special derogation which enables us to intervene in the market as long as our prices remain under 85 per cent of the guide price. The rate of variable premium has been equalised between the UK and Northern Ireland. These are important matters for the beef industry. I have mentioned beef and dairying because they comprise such a large part of our agriculture. Major increases have also been secured in other sectors. In the case of cereals the agreement means a price increase of 10.2 per cent.

The new intervention prices for Ireland for barley and feed wheat on 1 August will be over £113 per tonne, while the reference price for milling wheat will be almost £127 per tonne. These are significant increases which, combined with the anticipated increase in the acreage of cereals, improvements in yields, and general technological progress, will have a substantial contribution to increasing farm incomes. The overall level of support price increases and the slightly lower increase in target prices, on which minimum import prices are based, are designed to encourage the usage of Community cereals in animal feed and to make cereal substitutes less attractive to compounders. In the Irish context, the direct effect of the prices package will be increases in the prices paid by millers and merchants to growers.

The cereals price increase compares with 13.3 per cent for milk, 14.3 per cent for beef and 15.4 per cent for pigs. While the cereals increase may result in higher feed costs, any such increases will be more than offset by increases secured in the other sectors and the overall package will improve the relationship of livestock prices with feed prices.

There is scope for a continuing expansion in grain production. While our overall production has been increasing in recent years the increases secured have only been marginal. Winter wheat sowings are well up on previous years and preliminary soundings suggest that an increased acreage of barley will be sown in 1981. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for spring wheat which, mainly because of the disastrous harvesting conditions encountered in 1979 and in 1980 and the consequent scarcity of seed wheat, will be well down in 1981. Even at this late stage I would hope to see a spurt in spring wheat sowings, and the recent spell of fine weather encourages me to hope that our acreage forecasts will not turn out to be as low as was feared.

Increased production of spring wheat, essential for bread-making, can have a number of beneficial effects. It would lessen our dependence on imported wheat, thereby improving our balance of payments and safeguarding vital food supplies. Wheat is a valuable cash crop and, given reasonable weather conditions, can provide an excellent return for those who sow it.

The EEC price negotiations which I referred to earlier on should help in providing our farmers with the necessary degree of confidence to press ahead with grain production. The percentage increases in cereal prices, together with the new green rates adopted, represent one of the best results ever achieved in these negotiations.

For 1981 at least, the threat posed by the introduction of co-responsibility measures has been removed. The broad principles of this proposal have been accepted, but it is clear that the Commision will have to come up with a much more realistic mechanism than that proposed for 1981 if they hope to secure general agreement.

We have long been in the business of exporting agricultural products. It is unfortunate that in the case of some sectors at least our trading pattern has changed to the extent that we have become large-scale importers. Wheat is a case in point. In 1980 we sowed less than half of what we sowed ten years earlier. Let us reverse this trend and aim to produce the bulk of our milling wheat requirements while continuing to produce not alone enough barley for domestic use but also maintain and, if possible expand, the valuable export trade we have built up in barley and malt.

The most significant feature of the recent prices package from our viewpoint in so far as sugar is concerned is the retention of our A quota of 182,000 tonnes. A year ago we were very worried that the sugar regime being proposed by the EEC Commission would result in a substantial reduction in our basic A quota with adverse consequences for the industry. In practice, of course, the maintenance of the quota will not be of benefit unless the area under beet is expanded to produce at least 182,000 tonnes of sugar. Production of this quantity of sugar, when coupled with the agreed price increases, will help to redress the difficult financial situation which the Irish Sugar Company find themselves in at present. This year the company are making a new drive to expand the acreage of beet. They are anxious to have at least 90,000 acres grown and they are not limiting offers of contracts to existing growers. I would like to urge all concerned to co-operate fully with the company in their drive to ensure the security of the sugar industry and its thousands of jobs for the future. All this means that producers will get a higher price for their produce and indeed I might mention that the results secured in the agreement would have been outside the most optimistic predictions a few weeks ago.

From an Irish point of view there is the added gain of a special package of aid over two years for Irish farmers. For some months past the Minister for Agriculture has been pressing the European Commission, and the Council of Ministers of the EEC in Brussels to grant special Community aid to improve the farm income situation here. This was a long and strenuous effort, but it has now paid off. The Council gave its agreement to a series of special measures to operate in this country over a two-year period. The Community will provide about £31 million for those measures. Our Exchequer will supply some £20 million, giving the very substantial total of £51 million.

The farmers do not seem to be too happy with it.

The Minister without interruption, please.

This, when seen as part of the overall benefit to Ireland of last week's Brussels' decisions, will make a very substantial impact on our whole agricultural economy.

The special measures for Ireland focus on the livestock sector. Their aim and their justification is to improve incomes, but I expect them to do much more than that. They are designed also to encourage quality cattle production and to increase the amount of high-quality feed available in the winter months. These are areas where progress is needed if our cattle and beef production is to remain competitive with those of other countries. The special Community measures will enable us to undertake improvements which our Exchequer resources would not otherwise have allowed. We will, in the first place, be intensifying progeny testing and performance testing of beef bulls to ensure a continued increase in the genetic merit of bulls used at AI stations.

Secondly, the new measures will enable us to offer a grant of £5 per cow for artificial insemination. By encouraging farmers to use AI — which is of course in their own interest — we will be raising the yield and efficiency of our herds. As I have said, cattle feed is also an element needing improvement and the next two special measures are geared to that aspect. One of them is a subsidy on the use of lime. It is unfortunate, but understandable, that many farmers have tended to reduce lime applications because of income difficulties. The new measure should help to bring applications back to normal levels and should promote improvement of grass production. There will also be a subsidy of £3 per tonne to farmers making silage for the first time. In spite of the advantages of silage, hay-making is still widespread in many parts of the country. The new subsidy should encourage many farmers to go over to silage.

The next item in the special measures package is to help farmers in meeting the cost of pre-movement tests on cattle. Aid of up to £4 per animal for a two year period will be provided partly by the Exchequer and partly by the Community. Finally, the premium on suckler cows is to be doubled thanks to an additional Community contribution.

All this amounts to a very significant encouragement to the livestock sector which is the fundamental area in our agricultural economy. When supplemented by farmers' own efforts to increase their productivity I am confident that the special measures, together with the unprecedentedly high financial benefits from the rest of the Brussels' decision, will put our agriculture again on the path of expansion.

The position is that decisions taken over the past nine months will inject over £300 million into Irish agriculture from various sources. The significance of this money is all the more apparent when one considers the limits on Exchequer resources and indeed the limits on EEC funds. I am confident that our farming industry has now received the kind of money necessary to arrest the decline and to give it the necessary foothold to get back on the road to growth and progress. We are now in a situation where the difficulties of the past two years can be left behind and I think that is a very worthwhile achievement. Individual farmers will readily appreciate the value of this package when they see the benefits in the form of higher prices for their produce. They will see that the results cannot be glibly dismissed. The other main determinant of progress in the future is of course the response at farm level and the degree to which output and productivity is expanded. We all know that there is scope for real and worthwhile gains in this area. Any progress we can make in improving productivity and output will make the benefits of the prices package all the more worthwhile.

How long have I got left?

The sheep and pig industry are very important areas and the sheep industry is in sharp contrast with the pig industry because sheep production is now a very large export oriented business. The export market for lamb has become very large and it will grow further. Sheep have done well in the past year and sheep producers and processors will agree with me there. The new common market system which came into force in October last has done a lot of good. Prices increased more than expected from October onwards. They increased so much that the ewe premium was much smaller than was expected. However, producers in general were at no loss.

The ewe premium is intended to make up for losses in market prices so the better the price in the market the less the ewe premium will be. However, we know that in western areas especially, some producers sold off their lambs before the new Common Market system began in October and so did not have the benefit of the higher prices. The Minister, however, announced some weeks ago that he would increase by £2 per ewe the sheep headage which would be paid in the disadvantaged areas later this year. This £2, along with the 92 pence ewe premium, comes fairly close to the £3.50 which was the figure forecast for the ewe premiums for the six months October 1980 to March 1981. The reason why this ewe premium has been so low in the past year was because sheep prices increased by anything up to 40 per cent during that period. This is a far cry from what my colleague was talking about at the recent Fine Gael Ard-Fheis. He should at least get his facts correct. He was talking about a ewe premium of £7 for this year when in actual fact it was only £3.50 for the last six months. Just to highlight the situation I am stating now that the ewe premium will be £2.92 for the six months of this year.

As regards the disadvantaged area scheme, I would like to say that up to now in the mountain areas the headage has been paid on the hogget ewes and mountain lambs. Some people have been under the impression that the system of payment would be changed this year so as to pay "all on the ewe". I would like to say that the Minister has not yet decided what system of payment will be used but whatever he decides needs to have the approval of the EEC Commission. I am conscious that producers are anxious to know as soon as possible what system he will be operating and he will be making an announcement in the very near future.

There are two further points I should like to make.

The Minister has six minutes.

Listening to Deputy D'Arcy one would think there never was a Minister for Agriculture except Mark Clinton. I would like to remind him of one or two things that happened when Mark Clinton was Minister for Agriculture. I am sorry Deputy D'Arcy had to leave but I am sure Deputy Kenny will inform him.

Deputy Mark Clinton.

I will tell him all right.

I would like to remind him of the time when the farmers were giving the calves away or selling them for less than £1 apiece. In fact you could get a calf for nothing if you were prepared to take it. Again, there was the disastrous situation with regard to the eradication of brucellosis and TB. When we came back to power there had been no testing for 18 months. That has cost the Exchequer and the farmers millions of pounds over and above what it should have cost and that cost can be laid at the feet of Deputy Mark Clinton, former Minister for Agriculture. It was due solely to his lack of initiative and it resulted in Deputy Jim Gibbons as Minister for Agriculture having to introduce a 30-day test in an effort to remedy the situation. Deputy D'Arcy did not tell us anything about that this evening. I was not in the House but I heard him. He complained about the delay in the payment of grants and he accused the Minister — he could not have been referring to me because he has never written to me — of delaying the payment of grants. Now, if Deputy D'Arcy writes to me I will ensure the grants are paid promptly in Wexford or any other county. I am putting that on the record now. If Deputy D'Arcy has any problems I will be only too pleased to help him. I am sure Deputy L'Estrange remembers when you could cut the calves throats in 1974 and 1975.

And under Fianna Fáil.

The Deputy had to sell out.

I have as good a farm today and a better one. Do not get personal.

You had to sell out that time. You were broke.

You have not a beast on your land at the present time. Do not get personal. I sold my place and I bought a better one.

The Minister of State should be allowed to speak without interruption.

I bought a better place, thanks be to God, on the main road and I paid for it and it is my own and I did not get it by robbing a bank or anything like that and nobody belonging to me ever robbed a bank or carried a gun.

There should be no personalities introduced into the debate.

The Minister made a charge. I did not say a single word to him when he turned around and said I had to sell my place. I sold one place and bought another.

Good for you. The Minister should not introduce personalities into the debate.

I will not get personal and those in glasshouses should not throw stones.

Let there be no personalities now. We will leave it at that. The Minister has five minutes to conclude.

I should like to say a few words about the pigmeat industry. It has been going through a not very good time in the past year. The industry depends very much on the home market but exports are important too and in the past year export markets, especially the British bacon market, have been very weak. Within the Common Market system there are very strict limits on what member states are allowed to do to assist industries. This is only right because if such aids were permited then the member states with weaker resources would come off very badly indeed. I am glad to say that some time ago the pig producers and bacon curers in this country made quite a distinct step forward. To do this they were very much encouraged by the action of the Minister for Agriculture within the scope allowed him by the Common Market system. I refer to the remission of veterinary fees which gives the pigmeat industry relief of £500,000 per year in each of the years 1981 and 1982. In addition to this, the Minister decided to provide a sum of £200,000 in each of the years 1981 and 1982 to the Pigs and Bacon Commission to enable them to increase their promotion work for pigmeat.

Apart from the more unified approach to marketing the outlook for the pigmeat market is now more favourable. The new producer/bacon curer arrangements of which I have spoken is very good, but unfortunately there are a few bacon curers who still believe they can do better on their own. I can only appeal to these people to reflect and reconsider. Their unwillingness to co-operate may seem to them to benefit themselves but this is a very short-term outlook.

The Minister should conclude now.

The House should congratulate the Minister for Agriculture on the very fine package he brought home from Brussels. I have no doubt that later on tonight the House will have the opportunity. The Opposition who will vote against the motion will once again try to nail the farming community back to where they were some years ago. I want to clarify one thing for Deputy Bermingham concerning Cyprus potatoes. He should be aware, because it has widely published in the papers, that the Minister has made an order prohibiting the importation of Cyprus potatoes except under licence. Licences will not be granted as long as we have a sufficient supply of home grown potatoes.

The Chair understands that the Labour Party will not be taking up their final 45 minutes and that there is a new arrangement under which Deputy Kenny will have 25 minutes and a further speaker from the Government side will have 25 minutes.

I was very struck by the similarity between the two speeches produced here this evening by the Minister for Agriculture and his Minister of State. I expected something new from the Minister of State. It is disappointing to see that both scripts are very similar in almost every respect down to the smallest details. Whoever wrote the script of the Minister of State did not allow for the speed at which he reads. He showed his experience in the House by going on for ten minutes, causing a few noisy interruptions and thereby passing the necessary amount of time. He said in the closing part of his main script that we are now in a situation where the difficulties of the past two years can be left behind and he thought this was a very worthwhile achievement. Anybody who believes that the difficulties of the past two years can be left behind as a result of what has happened is living in a fools' paradise because that is very far removed from the truth. When the Minister for Agriculture spoke in Galway on 13 March he said that his aim as Minister for Agriculture was to provide the best possible support and incentives to Irish farmers from the Exchequer and from EEC services. He went on to say that he would do everything possible to ensure that the industry could maximise output and reach the highest levels of efficiency.

On a point of information, what exactly did you say, Sir, concerning the rearrangement of time?

I said that Deputy Kenny has 25 minutes and a further speaker from the Government side will have 25 minutes. The speaker from the Government side will be called at 8.5 p.m.

The final speaker?

Not the final speaker. As I have already explained, the final speaker from Labour is not coming in and the 45 minutes plus five minutes that was available has been divided between both sides by arrangement and the agreement of the House.

The Minister went on to say that he would do everything possible to ensure that the industry could maximise output and reach the highest levels of efficiency. That is a very worthwhile sentiment and I am quite sure the Minister for Agriculture was serious in his intention about doing that.

The Minister went to Brussels the tollowing week to negotiate on behalf of the Irish farmers. The results are evident in the remarks made by the experienced people in the different farming bodies who are intensely involved in the different farming areas in the country. Not one of them accepted with any great enthusiasm that the result of the conclusion to these negotiations was a small step in the right direction, but in major respects there are many faults in the powers of negotiation of the Minister abroad. It might have been better if he said before he went out what was the minimum amount he would take and not have to rely on the telephone system to consult with the Taoiseach whether he should go the whole hog and veto the arrangements in the light of pressure from the French people in the context of their presidential election.

The result, although a brave face has been put on it by the Minister and by his Minister of State, has not been welcomed by Irish farmers. They feel they have been let down. I believe that, as time goes on, the results will prove that they have been let down. It appears to me that the rules in Brussels can be bent to suit the powers that be. I feel an essential bargaining point is the negotiating power of our Ministers abroad. The results of the Minister's negotiations in Brussels do not bear any comparison with those of the Minister for Agriculture in the Coalition Government.

I want to say a few words about western farming and to address those remarks to the small farmers who have never appeared at the table in Brussels to any great extent. It is a well known fact that the preamble to the Treaty of Rome states quite clearly that one of the objectives of the EEC was to equalise the differences which exist within the different regions of the Community and the policies to be pursued should transfer imbalances from one area to another by provision of the means to correct those imbalances and allow the different areas to compete on a more equal but more competitive footing.

The western seaboard is not a uniform area and it is very difficult to implement a single policy, which would be a tailor-made model to deal with the whole of that area. One cannot disregard history or geography. Both of those have had a marked effect on the social and the economic development of the area. There are many differences in the type of terrain and the areas involved that do not allow for the implementation of a single policy in agriculture or in any other sphere. There are differences of mainland and islands, coastal and hinterland, urban and rural, and developed and undeveloped areas. They do not exhaust all the possibilities because there is also the Gaeltacht and the Galltacht.

Another point emerging from the so-called experts in Europe is that if development is to be carried out it must be done through an overall plan and on well-defined lines. This does not apply in the case of the measures introduced for agriculture brought back from Brussels by the Minister. The quotations from the Minister for Agriculture are similar to the quotations from his Minister of State. Both speeches set out the historical aspect of the matter and state quite clearly that the Minister's intentions were to do the best possible for Irish farmers. However, most farming organisations have rejected the measures brought back by the Minister from Brussels.

The non-allowance of the calf premium will have a major bearing on something which is crucial to the west of Ireland. We do not have the numbers of cattle required and the decline in cattle numbers has had a very serious effect on the agricultural industry. The price of cattle has increased to a certain extent but it is quite clear that we have not sufficient cattle to enable farmers to bring their incomes up. This will have a very serious effect on agriculture in the west during the next two or three years.

The special package of measures for the development of agriculture in the west as announced recently in a press release by the Government Information Services will have an enormous bearing. This scheme has been bandied around for the past two or three years and many people are under the illusion that it will solve all problems. This is not true because it is forgotten that the scheme is to be extended over a period of ten years and will cover 12 counties. We are not dealing with £300 million as a single unit. According to the statement, the programme consists of a range of measures designed to improve living conditions for farmers in the west of Ireland, particularly by improving farm incomes. It will be found, however, on looking through the list of allocations that many of them do not relate directly to farm incomes and it is untrue to say that they will have a major bearing on improving farm incomes. The measures outlined will have only a minimal effect on incomes.

The programme provides for the following aids: rural water supplies, £38 million; rural and farm roads, £44 million; electrification, a total of £13 million; 70 per cent grants for land improvement, £78 million; 40 per cent grants for on-farm investment, £58 million. New developments in forestry are to be brought into operation costing £18 million and a further £8 million is to be given for the development of agricultural training at 22 centres. Another £32 million is to be spent on marketing and research. Of those measures, the only ones that would improve farm incomes are land improvement and on-farm investment and the amounts provided are £78 million and £58 million, a total of £136 million.

If one takes the £300 million as a single unit and spreads it over ten years the provision amounts to £30 million per year. Assuming an average rate of inflation of 10 per cent, less than half the current rate, there would be a reduction in real terms of £3 million in the second year and at the end of the tenth year the £300 million, deflated over that period, would amount to only £165 million. Taking an average rate of inflation of 15 per cent the £300 million would be reduced to about £97 million. Taking an inflation rate of 20 per cent, the sum would be very insignificant in today's terms assuming that inflation and other costs within the bureaucracy have to be taken from it.

We are told that the various Ministers for the Environment, Energy and Fisheries and Forestry will be making announcements within the next few weeks. However, I should like the Minister to tell us what co-ordination body will receive this money. Will it be the Department of Finance, who will allocate it to the other Departments for expenditure on the various projects? Will the Department of Agriculture be the co-ordinating body or does the Minister intend to set up a special co-ordinating committee or agency to oversee the expenditure of this money?

The sum of £38 million is to be spent on rural water supplies and this is a very worthwhile project. Such schemes have made a significant improvement during the past few years. Perhaps the Minister will clarify who will be charged with the responsibility for expending this money in the best possible way. The improvement of rural and farm roads is very necessary in the west where many isolated farms are served only by tracks and cannot be approached by most vehicles. Many roads are in a desperate condition and the proposed expenditure is most welcome. However, when it is spread over ten years it amounts to only £4.4 million per year and when various administrative costs are taken into account the provision amounts to very little indeed.

The same applies in respect of the electrification schemes. Is the money to be spent on subsidies for new applicants for electricity supply who are being forced at present to build houses close to existing ESB lines to reduce costs? Are there to be measures to help special category applicants who are not already receiving electricity supplies? If so, is there to be a continuation of the scheme introduced under the 1976 Act?

Regarding the £78 million for land improvement. I would ask whether this is to replace existing land improvement grants or whether it will be used to top up those grants. Is the £58 million for farm investment an addition to the farm modernisation scheme in relation to buildings? The new measures propose 40 per cent grants in aid and, while that is welcome, there is no clarification as to how the money will be spent or whether it is in addition to existing measures.

The interest subsidy proposed over a two-year period for a calf to beef system is not relevant to small farmers in the west. Anyone involved in agriculture knows that there will be very few applicants for this subsidy because they cannot operate this scheme on their small holdings. The quality of the land leaves much to be desired and improvement works involve access facilities, drainage, soil treatment and so on.

Perhaps the Minister would clarify whether a special co-ordinating body is to be set up to oversee the expenditure of these moneys or whether the funds are to be given to the Department of Finance or the Department of Agriculture.

The Minister of State criticised the speech made by Deputy D'Arcy at the recent Fine Gael Ard-Fheis, but he did not refer to a statement made by the Minister himself on television that if there was a shortfall in the amount available from Brussels the Exchequer would top it up. There has not been any reference to that, nor has there been reference to the amount needed to top it up. The Minister might clarify that point.

The western drainage scheme needs to be looked at and the Minister is acutely aware of this problem. Grant applications made at the end of 1979 are only now being dealt with. This is very unfair to young farmers who want to carry out drainage work on their land. Their applications cannot be accepted because of the very serious delays in assessments and in drawing up plans.

The grants are not inflation linked. The Minister should introduce a scheme similar to that operated by the Department of the Environment which is an index-linked scheme for house building. If a farmer is eligible for a 40 per cent grant in respect of farm buildings by the time the work has been completed the grant will amount to only 15 per cent to 18 per cent. That is a very serious fall-back from what he was promised. The introduction of an index-linked scheme would provide farmers with a level of grant equivalent to what they are promised.

The introduction of the lime subsidy although welcome is not sufficient. Lime usage in the country as a whole decreased at a staggering rate in the past three years. In 1978, 2 million tons of ground limestone was spread; this declined to 1.5 million tons in 1979, and it declined further to 900,000 tons in 1980. That is a stunning decrease of 55 per cent in three years. This should be looked at again because lime is a basic essential for soil development.

The hill sheep farmers of the west are in dire straits. There is very little integration between them and the lowland sheep men. The costs involved are very great for the hill sheep farmer. The mortality rate would be about 14 per cent of lambs born in the first year and about 18 per cent of second year wethers. This indicates that a hill sheep farmer would be rearing about .6 of a lamb per ewe, and often they cannot even sell the produce off the hill. This must be looked at very seriously because these people have to contend with difficult physical barriers, poor drainage, a vast expanse of mountainside and so on. A scheme to provide feeding without too much cost must be introduced. It is difficult to get people to invest a lot of money when they know it will not pay them to do so.

So far nobody has mentioned that Údarás na Gaeltachta in Kerry appear to be topping up agricultural grants by giving £200 to farmers who buy bulk milk tankers. Perhaps the Minister would clarify that point. If those grants can be extended to the west there are three Gaeltacht areas in my constituency and the grants would be more than welcome.

The rabbit population has not been mentioned. They are damaging small farms, especially those in sandy areas of the west. There has been a tremendous increase in the rabbit population. I am led to believe that two rabbits have an enormous potential for generating their own species. I am told they could have over 10 million offspring in three years. It is no wonder the rabbit is always smiling.

Surely the Deputy does not believe that.

I had a question down to the Minister for Agriculture about this and his reply does not tell what needs to be done. I do not know if all our farmers are expected to run around with snares trying to catch these animals, or if they are to shoot them, but the reply does not indicate that myxomatosis is a notifiable disease. Something must be done about this situation. It is not fair to refer these problems to the advisory services because all they can suggest is that farmers shoot or snare the rabbits. The Minister is aware of this situation because the farmers of the west are writing to his Department looking for this elusive myxomatosis rabbit.

Increased farm output will inevitably require a higher level of farm investment. The Government have set out their Investment Plan for 1981 in a detailed White Paper published earlier this year. This plan is designed to bring the Irish economy in good shape through the present difficult period brought on by the recession in the world economy, and will create a basis on which faster national growth can be secured when the expected upturn in world trade and output develops later this year.

This investment plan allocates £141 million for agriculture in 1981, which together with capital funds of over £12 million provided directly by the EEC, will be invested, firstly through the farm modernisation scheme, and capital expenditure by ACOT on agricultural colleges, farm training centres and the Western Resource Development Centre and secondly, in arterial drainage, and finally through the ACC.

Furthermore, the investment programme reinforces other substantial and wide-ranging measures recently introduced by the Government to aid agriculture. These special measures, which are additional to the many aids for agriculture already in operation, included not only increased allocations and grants for the farm modernisation scheme, the disadvantaged areas scheme, the new beef cow suckler scheme and other schemes, but also reduced interest loans for farmers from the ACC and the associated banks and arrangements for restructuring existing borrowing.

These arrangements for restructuring by the lending institutions were undertaken following discussions with the Government on the credit problems of farmers. These problems have been the subject of intensive study by the Department of Agriculture under my direction. I have met the representatives of the lending institutions and the farming organisations on a number of occasions and the Government are now giving the most careful consideration to what effective steps can be taken to help farmers who are in difficulty. Any steps which we take will necessarily have to involve the lending institutions themselves. At the same time, we must have regard for EEC involvement, particularly for the possibility of some help coming from FEOGA or other Community funds for this purpose.

The criticism so far today has been directly along the lines that the Minister in the negotiations in Brussels, where he successfully secured £215 million, should have been able to get more. I joined the Minister in those negotiations and had a first hand opportunity to evaluate the effort he made on behalf of the Irish farmers and of our economy. I am fully satisfied that he could not have negotiated a more successful package. Independent observers and people who had an opportunity to assess the position vis-à-vis the budgetary problems in Brussels and the individual problems affecting many of the economies of the Community have only to think of the strongest economy, Germany, which has a budgetary deficit of £8 million this year, to realise the difficulties that faced the Minister in these negotiations.

Those negotiations were hard fought. The fact that the Minister succeeded and that the negotiations were concluded so that the tax proposals could be brought into effect on last Monday is a tribute to him and his colleagues in the Council of Ministers. It was necessary for Ministers to reach agreement so that the price rises would be effective at an early date. The many obstacles in the way of reaching agreement had to be overcome.

Deputy D'Arcy in his contribution sought to ignore the external problems. He endeavoured to place all the economic problems that face the country at the door of the Government. He must admit that the level of inflation that exists now is similar to that which existed under the National Coalition and that there are external difficulties over which a small open economy such as ours does not have much control. The option in relation to inflation because of those external pressures is to close the door, to let people join the dole queues and adopt policies similar to those a Government not far from here decided to adopt. The Government are satisfied that, with our young, well-educated population and so many people about to seek employment, that is not the answer. Therefore, we must sometimes suffer price increases which, in some instances, are quite high. We must do so to ensure that companies and enterprises are secure so that jobs are secure.

Deputy D'Arcy suggested that the Minister should have succeeded in getting a calf subsidy and indicated that, because he did not, calf prices dropped by £20 per head last week. He sought to prove that by telling the House he had been selling calves since last January and had been at markets weekly. He told us he was fully abreast with what was happening. However, it appears that he did not take his calves to Enniscorthy, his own home town——

Gorey is my home town.

——or he was offering inferior quality calves on the market because the price rise since the Ministers returned from Brussels ten days ago has been on average of the order of £3 per head at five representative marts throughout the country. A report of those marts is sent to Brussels weekly as a guide for calf prices. Over recent months the price of calves in general has been up by 48 per cent. In average terms, beef steers, forward stores, light stores and calf prices were higher last year than at any time since our accession to the EEC. The percentage increase in price for beef steers compared with the same period last year is 15.3 per cent. Forward stores increased by 20 per cent, light stores by 21 per cent and calves by 38 per cent.

And still no profit.

The supply of cows going to our factory for slaughter over the first two months of this year was down by 40 per cent. I contend that those figures are the first real signs of recovery in agriculture. Farmers are keeping their cows. The buoyancy in calf prices and the confidence to keep cows on the land and put them in calf is an indication that we are on the road back to recovery after what has been a very difficult time.

The Minister should tell the House the number of extra cows sold in 1980.

The number of cows slaughtered was 475,000 which is 115,000 less than the number slaughtered in 1975 under the National Coalition.

There were one million more cattle in the country at that time.

The Minister of State is entitled, like other Members, to make his own speech.

However, there is one significant difference. I do not take any delight in announcing the figures for 1975 or the figures for last year because they both show signs of a lack of confidence. I hope there is not a repeat of the disastrous period farmers experienced under the National Coalition when more than 100,000 extra cows were slaughtered. The significant difference between the two figures is that we did not shy away from the need to accelerate the disease eradication programme. Deputy D'Arcy is aware that last year's figures included the greatest number of cows taken out of the national herd because of disease eradication, particularly because of brucellosis. The percentage of the cow herd slaughtered last year because of disease was 16.1 per cent. Hopefully, with the process being made in the eradication of brucellosis and TB, it will not be necessary again to remove from the national herd such a significant number.

When we talk in terms of restoring our national herd to what it was I should like to tell the House that if we did not concentrate on disease eradication many more calves would be lost because of brucellosis. An Foras Talúntais recently estimated that the figure was in excess of 200,000. Admittedly, that figure includes still births, infertility in cows and calves up to one year old, which were lost for many reasons with which we are all familiar. Deputy D'Arcy, a farmer, this afternoon told Irish farmers that there was no room for any further efficiency.

I did not say that. The Minister should quote me correctly.

With our level of milk production and our capacity for improvement in that area, not to ask for greater efficiency is to ignore very fundamental questions. Many people have commented on such matters. The farmers will admit that we require to improve our education and training facilities and opportunities before people can enter this professional business which requires great skills and techniques not considered necessary before. To make a success of farming those involved in it must avail of all the ACOT facilities and the up-to-date information on the business so that they can use this "green oil" of the Irish economy to the fullest possible extent.

I will now deal with the farm development services. We have been told in this debate that farm development has been brought to a standstill. My reply is that, on the basis of existing weekly payments, I hope to have paid out to farmers by the end of the year, a figure close to the record payment of £59.5 million which was paid out last year. I do not want to be told that this is in respect of work completed some years ago. We have carried out a study of the period in respect of which farm improvement schemes were in existence for buildings and land and I am heartened by the speed with which works are being completed. I realise that early completion of work is a good business exercise for farmers because of the level of interest rates, but taking that into account, the speed with which schemes are being completed is significant.

It is interesting to give figures in relation to the acceleration that has occurred in this programme since 1975. In that year the Government paid out £6 million in grants for farm modernisation. The following year the figure was £12 million. By 1977 it had grown to £24 million. In 1978 it was £28 million and in 1977 it was increased to £32 million. Last year a record was achieved when £59.5 million was paid out.

As I came into the House this evening Deputy Kenny was complaining about the number of farmers waiting for the processing of their farms under the Western Drainage Scheme. That scheme is less than three years old and the aim was to develop 100,000 hectares of land. At the moment the applications have exceeded the quota for the scheme. The applications are flowing in for benefits under that scheme and under the western package. There is not any sign of abatement in the number of applications.

Deputy D'Arcy was in the House when his colleagues asked me about delays of one kind or another in dealing with applications under the various schemes. I can tell him that, because of the sheer demand, the personnel in my Department are utilised to the utmost dealing with these applications. It is a sure sign of farmers' confidence in development. Of course we all appreciate that development is necessary. We want to see more of it, particularly in relation to the provision of buildings in which to winter stock. A lot of progress has been made in the past four years. Half a million acres have been improved. However, we must get cattle into unelaborate flexible housing during winter in order to enable farmers to end the poaching of land by cattle during the winter months.

We must ensure that there will be early growth of grass and early output so that not only will we have more fodder in winter but that we will have top quality silage. In 1979, when conditions were atrocious during the winter, the Government moved quickly, and our innovations encouraged more than 17,000 farmers to participate in a new silage and fertiliser subsidy scheme. That scheme is part of this year's programme as well. I hope it will encourage farmers to cut silage as early as possible, preferably by the end of May, so that the quality of the feed next winter will be the best possible and that the best possible output will follow. At the moment cattle being carried over the winter lose weight and there is not much future for farmers or for the entire economy in that sort of husbandry. The production of top class winter fodder and the in-wintering of cattle must be our aim and it is the aim of the Department who are giving every possible encouragement to it. All our efforts must be concentrated on seeing that this will be achieved.

There is the question of food imports. We have the climatic conditions and an ever-renewing resource in our land to give to the country increased prosperity. We must ensure that not only will we produce top quality goods but that we will process and reprocess and export them to the best markets we can find. Every means to revamp production methods, processing and marketing will be pursued by this Government. This week we opened a factory in Donegal for the production of frozen chips. This is a very welcome development which will enable us to cut down on imports of this type of food. We have restricted imports of Cypriot potatoes and we are alert in other areas so that not only will we export top quality produce but that we will take effective measures to ensure unnecessary food imports will not compete with our good native produce.

Listening to the three Fianna Fáil speakers one would think there is not a crisis at all. It is time they woke up to the fact that there is a very serious crisis and that it is vital to do something to restore prosperity. But how are we to believe anything Fianna Fáil tell us when we remember the famous promises in the infamous manifesto? They have not been honoured. How can we expect that the promises made tonight and in the last week or two will be honoured? In their manifesto Fianna Fáil said they believed that agriculture could and should provide the main thrust for the recovery of the national economy. What have they done since about that? They have allowed agriculture to slump into the position in which it is in today. Fianna Fáil said they could introduce a national livestock development programme to increase cattle numbers. They have done nothing about that.

Fianna Fáil said they would provide a 3 per cent subsidy in interest rates for farmers. What has happened to that promise? It helped to get 20 extra Deputies elected. There was a strong Government in office. The Minister could have put any programme through the House. The Government have done nothing since. Fianna Fáil also promised to maintain the notional system of farmer taxation. What has happened to that? Fianna Fáil pilloried us in 1977 when farmers were paying income tax on £75 poor law valuation. We were supposed to have ruined the farmers. The present Government reduced that to £40 poor law valuation.

The Minister said our problems were due to external difficulties. We have never claimed that all the difficulties and crises which confront agriculture today are all due to internal causes. We have a 21 per cent inflation rate today which is helping to ruin agriculture and doing more harm than anything else to our economy. This is due to the mishandling of the economy and heavy borrowing by the present Government. The Minister went on to speak about people on the dole: his Government were not like other Governments not far away. What exactly does the Minister mean by that? The famous manifesto promised to reduce unemployment in the first four years of office by 80,000. There were 107,000 people unemployed in 1977. If the Government had honoured their promise, there would be only 27,000 people unemployed today. At present there are 126,000 people unemployed, so the Minister is only 100,000 people out in that promise. If those people had worked and had good wages they would be in a better position to buy our agriculture produce. We would have the home markets as well as external markets.

The Minister also spoke about cattle prices, that they were 15 per cent higher this spring than last spring. They are, but we have an inflation rate of 21 per cent. The farmer is still 6 per cent worse off. The Minister knows as well as I do that cattle prices increase every spring. I remember in 1979 paying £50 a cwt. for cattle. The Minister remembers it, too. Unfortunately, I sold them afterwards at £37 per cwt.

Did the Deputy sell any calves in 1975?

No, I bought calves in 1975.

Minister, please. The Deputy does not need any help.

Will the Minister leave him alone please?

I am old enough to remember the economic war when they were being sold for a ridiculous price, when the Minister's Government, which is now so interested in agriculture, were cutting their throats from ear to ear. We would not even export them to England. We would not feed John Bull. We had no time for John Bull at that time but now we have a special relationship with Maggie Thatcher.

Will the Deputy——

This is bad enough without the Minister helping the Deputy out——

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle has taken a lot of shillings off the unfortunate farmer in the last few years and some of them had not much more than ten shillings a week.

Ten shillings has nothing to do with cattle, beef, calves or anything else.

We welcome the increase in cattle prices. We hope it continues. The danger is — I hope I am wrong in this — that many farmers are paying too much for cattle at present. When we can look up the record next October or November, I am afraid we will see that many of those cattle will be sold at £40 to £42 per cwt.

Every fine day is followed by a wet day in Fine Gael——

Minister, please, no interruptions.

There is a shortage of cattle at present and farmers are bidding against one another for the number of cattle available. The Minister knows that less than half the usual number of cattle are going to factories. The Minister spoke about the supply of cows going to factories, which has dropped by 40 per cent since last year. I am glad it has, because last year 500,000 cows went to factories. I met a worker in a factory and he told me that a man had sent cows to the factory which were in-calf. Some of them were within a fortnight or three weeks of the calves being born. He stopped killing the first one or two. He telephoned the owner and appealed to him to take the cows away, that it was a sin to kill them. Unfortunatley, the owner said he could not, that he had to meet his commitments and feed his wife and children. That happened this year.

One of the reasons for fewer cows being killed is that there are not enough of them. We have a reduction of over 500 cows at present. When the Minister, Deputy MacSharry, was speaking he ended by stating he wished to hear something constructive. We have been a constructive Opposition since the foundation of the State. We are proud of our past Ministers for Agriculture. Paddy Hogan stood for one more cow, one more sow, one more acre under the plough. In 1948, James Dillon put the farmers on their feet and negotiated the cattle agreement with Britain at that time. The Land Reclamation Scheme was introduced for the west of Ireland which people in the west are so proud of today. The Minister is proud to administer it today and to claim credit for it. More power to the Minister if he can get away with it. We are proud of Deputy Mark Clinton, an able negotiator. There is no doubt that Deputy MacSharry is a good looking young chap, but there is very little use in sending a gasún on a man's errand, which is what happened when he went to Brussels to negotiate on our behalf. Deputy Clinton increased the farmers' income from £250 million to £950 million in four years.

He was rejected out of hand.

Let us compare what happened in Britain when Mrs. Thatcher was made Premier. She went to Brussels, brought her Minister for Finance, her Foreign Minister and her Minister for Agriculture. She claimed Britain was the third poorest country in the Common Market. At that time we were the poorest country. Mrs. Thatcher went over there, she negotiated, she banged on the door and on the table and she demanded her rights. She got £1,000 million a year for five years. We came home with the crumbs to the Irish people.

That is utterly ridiculous.

It is there in black and white. They got this concession for the English people because they were able negotiators and diplomats. They demanded their pound of flesh and they got it. It is a pity we have not got somebody able to negotiate on our behalf.

Does the Deputy want to follow all Maggie Thatcher's policies?

No, I never presented her with a silver tea pot or had any special relationship with her.

The Minister should not interrupt. The Chair believes that when we are referring to foreign politicians we should give them their proper titles. Maggie Thatcher is Prime Minister of Great Britain whether we like it or not.

All right, she is Prime Minister of Great Britain. We were proud of our Ministers of Agriculture. They were nation builders. None of them was a nation wrecker. The Minister said he hoped there would not be any politics in the debate. I suppose when I speak there is bound to be a certain amount of politics. There was politics in what the Minister has to say. I am not objecting to that because, after all, this House is a political house.

When the Taoiseach was elected many people regarded him as the saviour of mankind. It was said he would get everything moving fast. While the farmers were going through a crisis last year the Taoiseach was engaging in a public relations exercise, going down to the south to open a cow byre. That was not doing very much for the Irish people. Shortly afterwards he took himself and 26 Ministers to Castlebar to unevil a plaque to himself. At that time he and his Ministers should have been tackling the problems that were affecting the Irish farmers. There was a slump in prices and farmers' incomes were dropping dramatically. In fact, in the past three years they have dropped by 60 per cent.

At the end of July Deputy Bruton called a press conference and there was a certain amount of publicity given to that conference. The Deputy made certain proposals there. A week or fortnight after that the Minister introduced a silage plan and one or two other small concessions for farmers. Nothing was done after that until we introduced our six-point policy for agriculture. It was a rescue package but it was voted down in this House by Fianna Fáil. However, in the budget afterwards they included some of the proposals we had made.

It must be admitted by all that in the past two or three years agriculture has been in the doldrums. Not since the days of the economic war has there been such poverty among small farmers. Some Fianna Fáil men may smile at that but I am stating the position as has been told to me by my constituents. The package the Minister got in Brussels was totally inadequate. It would take nearly £400 million to put the Irish farmers on their feet again. In the past few years the farming community has been the only section not to get an increase. When the Minister for Agriculture returned from Brussels this year there was no bevy of Ministers or State cars to meet him. Why? They realised that the package was inadequate so far as the farmers were concerned. Perhaps in France or Germany, where the inflation rate ranges from 5 per cent to 8 per cent, an increase of 13 per cent might be all right. However, our inflation rate is 21 per cent and farmers have had three very bad years. Many economists say it would need at least a 35 per cent increase to restore to farmers the prosperity they enjoyed for a few short years.

Our inflation rate is 21 per cent and the signs are that it will increase during the year to 23 per cent or 24 per cent. It is no harm to remind people that when we left office in 1977 the inflation rate was 11 per cent and in less than three months it was down to 9.8 per cent. At that time interest rates were 10 per cent, but last year they were 18 per cent to 20 per cent and farmers were unable to meet their commitments. In 1977 we had a 5½ per cent growth rate, but last year it was down to 1 per cent or less. When we had a high growth rate it affected all sectors of the community and they were able to buy agricultural products. We know now that many of the unemployed are lucky if they eat meat or eggs once a week.

The Minister today said that the price package will bring prosperity to the farming section and that it will have a favourable overspill throughout the economy to the benefit of all. I hope the Minister is right. We know the farmers are the backbone of the country. If they are wealthy the whole nation is wealthy, but if they are poor the nation is poor. In the past there have been many wars in this country—national, social and economic. The farmers are entitled to a fair return for their work. They and their families work 365 days a year and many never get a holiday. All they are asking for is a fair deal.

When our Government were in office the then Minister for Agriculture, Deputy Clinton, got one instruction when he went abroad, namely, to get the best price for our agricultural produce. If in getting that price hardship was imposed on any section our Government were prepared to pay subsidies. When Deputy Clinton got some of the huge increases for agricultural produce hardship was imposed on some sections of the community but the Government introduced certain subsidies. They subsidised butter to the tune of 30p per pound, milk 4p per pint, 5½ per loaf of bread, flour 4½ per kilo and cheese 7p per pound. When Fianna Fáil were elected to office they immediately abolished the 7p subsidy on cheese.

Is the Deputy saying they would reintroduce subsidies?

I am asking the Deputy not to interrupt. We are not dealing with subsidies, we are dealing with agriculture.

The introduction of subsidies meant that people could buy the foods I have mentioned, foods that are a luxury now. Not alone did Fianna Fáil abolish those subsidies but they also abolished the subsidy on lime and fertilisers. This has meant a loss in production, but it appears Fianna Fáil are not interested in the farmers. It might be no harm to point out that in 1973 cattle prices went up from £15 per cwt. to more than £38.

In 1973? Cattle could not be sold at that time.

Deputy Keegan should not try to help the Deputy in possession.

I am reminding him of something he has forgotten.

There is no need to remind the Deputy of anything. He should be allowed to continue his speech without interruption.

I was reminded already. We spoke about this matter before the Deputy came into the House. For a year or so farmers could not sell their cattle and prices dropped but we got over that crisis very quickly because there was a good Government in office at that time.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy L'Estrange is in possession.

Fianna Fáil gave increases of 50 or 60 per cent to other sections of the community but have allowed the farmers' incomes to be reduced in the last three years by 60 per cent. They cannot deny that because it is a fact. Milk went up from 15p to 58p; barley went up from £25 per ton in 1973 to £90 per ton in 1977. There have been very few increases since then and that is no coincidence. Farmers' confidence must be restored but I doubt if it will be restored. I would love if it was restored by this package but there is not one farm leader here who has said that it will restore confidence and they are not satisfied with it.

Who wrote the speech?

There is no speech written here. Let the Deputy come over here and I will give him the few notes I have and let us see if he can make a speech. I never needed anybody to write a speech for me. This is my own speech.

Deputy Lawlor should not interrupt.

Senator Gemma Hussey wrote it.

There is no need for Deputy L'Estrange to shout and there is no need for any interruptions.

The Deputy has a photograph of her there in front of him.

That does not matter.

Senator Hussey is well able to say what she has to say. That is her own business, and those in glasshouses should not throw stones.

She has nothing to do with this debate on agriculture.

She is the spokeswoman for women's affairs in Fine Gael.

Women's affairs have nothing to do with what we are debating at the moment.

She is the public relations person.

I know it is very difficult for the Minister of State to stay quiet, but if he does not wish to stay quiet he should go outside somewhere for a little while. Deputy L'Estrange has only 20 minutes.

The Minister said that the Government will not hesitate to take whatever steps are necessary but that there must be an equal determination throughout the industry to match this with all possible efforts to increase output and efficiency. Certainly I agree with every word he has said there, but does the same appeal go out to their friends in the trade unions?

It certainly does not. They twisted the arms of the employers during the by-election last September to give them a 15 per cent increase. There was nothing said about efficiency then; there was no call to those people to work harder. The farmers understand and know hard work and they would be prepared to work hard to get an adequate recompense. But at the same time that they are talking about farmers working harder and producing more, the Government agree with ESB workers getting £600 disturbance money because they had to move 100 yards down the road to a better building. Where are we going when things like that happen?

The Deputy should get back to agriculture.

Yes, I know. But there is much woolly talk about farmers increasing their production. If the same appeal were made to all other sections of the community there would be some sense in it. Where is the example to work harder? That is the question we would all like to ask, especially when those entrusted with Government neglect to do the work that is expected of them—and there is no denying that.

The Minister also talked about the rates position today and what they have done for the ratepayers. The Government abolished the subsidy on rates this year. Rates increased by 300 per cent and, even though the rates have been halved, farmers are still paying more than they paid in 1978 and 1979.

There are 49,000 of them paying nothing.

That is because we produced a six point programme and Fianna Fáil knew that we intended to do that. I have the programme——

(Interruptions.)

——for the abolition of all rates for all farmers. It was only because Fianna Fáil were afraid of losing the farmers' vote that they agreed to go ahead with derating.

The Deputy only picked this point out of the paper because it was being discussed.

We will honour anything we put on paper, unlike Fianna Fáil with their manifesto. Before the Minister came in tonight I read out point after point; Fianna Fáil broke every primise that they made to the Irish electorate in that manifesto.

(Interruptions.)

Today the Minister spoke about mountain lamb extension schemes and so on. He did not tell us anything about the ewe scheme. Those of us who were down in Donegal heard the Fianna Fáil Ministers on every platform in Donegal promising the small farmers that if they voted for Fianna Fáil they would get £7 per head for every ewe they kept. The little man on the mountain was saying, "Oh my God, I have 50 little ewes at home; that is £350 if I vote Fianna Fáil. Why would I not vote for Fianna Fáil? " Another little man might have 100 ewes and that meant £700. What has happened to that? We were not told anything about it here today. The Minister knew at that time, but he did not tell the farmers what was in the small print, that they would be getting only 70p to 90p. They misled the farmers then as they have misled them since.

That is not correct.

It is correct. The Deputy knows it is correct. The Minister has also claimed credit for suspending the disease eradication levy giving a direct saving to farmers of almost £10 million in 1981. That was another promise made in our six point programme. Who put the 10 per cent levy on the farmers?

Deputy Mark Clinton.

The present Government put it on at the dictates of the unions, just as they imposed the resource tax.

(Interruptions.)

Would Deputy L'Estrange make his own speech and not respond to any offerings from the other side?

It is very difficult not to respond.

Would the Deputies in the House remain silent? If they would remain silent for a few minutes we would get the whole job over.

Despite the fact that the Government promised in 1977 to remove all the taxes we had imposed, they imposed three or four new taxes. They imposed the 2 per cent levy which was an unfair and unjust tax because it did not take into consideration the ability of people to pay. They imposed a resource tax which is an unfair and unjust tax because, again, it did not take into consideration the ability of people to pay. They are now looking for credit for removing taxes that they imposed on the farmers a few years ago and which helped to ruin the farmers of this country. In the manifesto the Government proposed to give a 3 per cent subsidy on interest rates for farmers.

Is the Deputy sure that Gemma did not write that speech?

The Minister stated here today that since 1975 well over £1,000 million has been invested in land improvement, buildings, machinery and so on and that we have not yet seen an adequate return on that investment. Unfortunately we have not. When Deputy Clinton was Minister for Agriculture he encouraged the farmers to invest. They invested at that time because they had confidence in the Government and they continued to invest. Many of those people who borrowed money when it was at 9 or 10 per cent are being crucified in the last few years by the action of the present Government who have increased interest rates to 19, 20 and 21 per cent.

And Fine Gael will be able to change all that.

The unfortunate thing about it is that it was the good, progressive farmers who borrowed and are in trouble today, the farmers who went to the agricultural schools, who attended the 100 hours agricultural courses. Bank managers and agricultural instructors went to the CEO's and asked them for a list of those people and they went and offered them money, and many of those people who borrowed at 8 per cent are up to their eyes in debt. Some of them have to sell part of their farms. Others have applied to the Land Commission for permission to sell part of their land and have been refused permission. Others have had to sell their farms altogether. What have the Government done for them? There is not a single thing in this package for those unfortunate people in whom they were supposed to be interested when they were in Opposition. Those people are the salt of the earth. Deputy Keegan knows some of them in my county. At the present time they cannot sleep and some of them and their wives are attending mental hospitals because their nerves are gone. The farmer has always been a proud man. He has always tried to pay his way and repay his debts. Unfortunately, he has not been able to do this over the last few years because farmers have been neglected.

The Minister stated this evening, and I quote:

In the development of our economy in recent years, the farming sector has been an area of particular concern to the Government. The problems which farmers have had to face have been fully recognised by the Government and we have spared no efforts to find adequate solutions.

What solutions did we get until the Minister came back from Brussels with this package? We got nothing worth talking about. I remember many Fianna Fáil speakers, and one in particular, stating that when we entered the EEC our standards of living would be aligned with the standards of the other states. Unfortunately, the gap between the standards of living of our farmers and those of people in the other countries of Western Europe is getting larger and larger every day. If you read the statistics which were published recently, the gap has widened to such an extent that people living in Hamburg and Bonn are six times better off than the average person living in the west of Ireland.

There are two million people unemployed in Germany.

They are six times better off than our people in the west of Ireland.

The Deputy would want to go back again to Germany and have another look.

We were told that the gap would be narrowed. Instead of that it is widening because of the Government's complete neglect of our agricultural community over the last few years.

Was it the Deputy's new Vice-President who told him that?

Now, now, we have heard enough about his Vice-President. Would the Minister please stay quiet?

I wonder if Fianna Fáil realise the extent of the poverty among farmers and what they have had to live on in the last two years? According to the Agricultural Institute's farm management survey for 1979, published on 1 October 1980, the farm income for half our farmers was less than £2,000 per year. Do the Government deny that? That is less than £40 per week and that is the income of half our farmers.

Would the Deputy give us the figures for 1973 and 1974?

And for 1975?

It was then a lot higher than it was last year and the previous year.

When farms could not be disposed of.

Will the Deputy cop on?

It is time Deputy L'Estrange copped on.

Will the Deputy cop on? I will give him a tanner to cop on. Fianna Fáil were in power in 1973, we were not. He should not be questioning his own Government.

Deputy L'Estrange is wrong there. His Government were in power at the start of 1973 and we came in later in the year.

Deputy Keegan, if the Deputy speaking is wrong, that does not matter two hoots.

It took us a little while to rescue ourselves from the down pattern.

Deputy L'Estrange is entitled to be wrong when he is speaking. That is fair enough.

The average income for all farmers in that particular year was £2,816 per annum, less that £55 per week. Remember, a farmer was supposed to pay more than that to an agricultural labourer. Let us take the average income at the end of December 1979. For those in manufacturing and other jobs, male and female, it was £4,555, or £87 per week. Therefore, the average income of other sections was £32 per week higher than the average income of the farmers, who were supposed to be the principal producers and whom Fianna Fáil tell us that they are interested in.

It has got worse still.

The Deputy is not able to count.

I am quite well able to count — 55 from 87 is 32. I do not know what school Deputy Keegan went to, but that is the figure I arrived at. If the Deputy wants further figures, I asked a question in the Dáil on Tuesday, 3 March 1981. According to the reply I got the farmers represent 20 per cent of our population. When we were in office in 1977 they were receiving 18.2 per cent of the national income. In 1980 under Fianna Fáil they received less than 12 per cent of the national income.

What is your solution?

Take your medicine now.

(Interruptions.)

I should like to quote some other figures. We talk about farmers and the land and we are all interested in agriculture. We would like to see more people on the land. In 1977 there were 193,600 people on the land, in 1979 the figure was down to 182,300 a drop of 11,300 in two years. The number of agricultural labourers in 1977 was 29,500 and in 1979 it had dropped to 26,400. It is reckoned that it dropped by a further 4,000 since then which means that we have over 8,000 fewer agricultural labourers today than when Fianna Fáil took office. Is that bringing back prosperity to rural Ireland? Does the Minister think so?

We must also remember that one of the greatest crises now facing agriculture is the fact that factories that are giving employment are having to lay off workers. For example, in the meat factories 3,000 workers have been laid off in the past few months. It is reckoned that another 3,000 may have to go in the near future because due to the poverty of the farmers they had to sell cattle last year that they should have kept and fattened this year; they had to sell 500,000 milk cows many of them in calf and which they should have kept to produce more cattle. Tractor sales last year were down by 60 per cent; farm machinery sales were down 50 per cent, farm building materials down 60 per cent, compound feeds down 22 per cent, cattle feeds down 20 per cent, fertiliser sales down 20 per cent, and veteninary medicine sales down 15 per cent. This is a most serious matter for the whole economy.

During all that time the Government stood idly by while there was a complete loss of confidence among Irish farmers. I suppose they were agreeing with Lord Melbourne's dictum: "Ponder, pause, prepare, postpone and end by leaving things alone; in fact earn the people's pay by doing nothing every day". That is how the Government fooled the farmers of the country for the past few years.

"And still the wonder grew that one small head could carry all he knew".

Ill fares the land to hastening ills a prey, where rates and taxes accumulate and men decay.

When we have done with the poetry session let us get back to the business before the House. We do not need any more western poets.

The present crisis in agriculture underlines the urgent need for a long-term and realistic programme and policy for agriculture. Its problems need commonsense and practical solutions, not gimmicks, such as I mentioned earlier, like opening cow byres in the west of Ireland or unveiling plaques.

The present Government are muddling along from crisis to crisis. The ship of State seems to be heading for the rocks and the captain seems to be lost in the mist. Proper action is needed immediately. If we do not have it now it may be too late. Unfortunately, it is too late for many farmers. As I said earlier, it would take at least £400 million to restore prosperity. People may ask where the money is to come from. But if the Government could find £90 million for Nítrigin Éireann, if they were able to find an extra £70 million for the teachers, if they could find £72 million for CIE and all the other millions for the various other sections, is it not only right to ask why they cannot find money for the farming community? We have heard a good deal during the past few months about the package that the Minister brought back from Brussels.

That was because it was a good package.

We are entitled to ask why the details of that package were kept secret. Surely they should have been made known to the farmers' organisations and to the people generally. Not even the farmers' representatives who were travelling to and from Brussels were let in on the secret, whereas if they had been made aware of what the Minister was looking for, they would have been in a position to help him. Indeed, if the package had not been kept secret we might have got much more from it.

The Minister of State has told us that he expects to be meeting again with the farmers' representatives for the purpose of reviewing the situation in the light of the Brussels decision. We are delighted to hear this because it represents a change compared with the past. I am thinking particularly of when the present Taoiseach as Minister for Agriculture had the farmers sent to jail because they had been walking up and down outside the gates of Leinster House to protest against conditions and to demand a fair living for themselves in their own country. Since then I have seen members of illegal organisations camp outside the gates of this House without any attempt being made to arrest them. Neither was there any attempt to interfere with them when they climbed the gates of Leinster House and burned a flag. This was quite a contrast to the situation in which law abiding farmers were arrested and lodged in Mountjoy.

It might be no harm to put on record what was said by a great friend of the Minister for Agriculture, Mr. Joe Rea. He said that pretence and promises are not sufficient, that neither the Government's sympathy nor the Minister, Deputy Ray MacSharry's always open door nor the understanding of the Taoiseach would pay farmers' bills and keep bank managers happy.

I am very pleased to know that the Taoiseach and the Government recognise the farmers' organisations now. I recall 1976 when every day for three long weeks the farmers sat on the steps of Agriculture House and were ignored by the Government.

Were the Deputy's party not in Government then? Of course Deputy L'Estrange was the silent man at the time. He had been sealed up by Deputy Cosgrave.

Would the Minister of State please allow Deputy L'Estrange to conclude?

Our farmers are entitled to a fair deal. They are entitled to fair compensation for their work but the situation is that their income has dropped by 60 per cent in the past three years. To that extent we welcome what is in the package though it is not sufficient to restore prosperity to the farming community who have received such a battering during the past few years of Fianna Fáil Government.

They got a fair old wallopping from the Deputy's Party.

They survived it.

The Minister for Agriculture to conclude the debate.

Would the Minister for culture behind him keep quite?

Will Deputy L'Estrange and all the others keep quiet?

The Deputy should practise what he preaches.

If these two Deputies from the same constituency would go outside and hammer this out we would get on much better.

I want to say how disappointed I am at the contributions of Deputies from the opposite side of the House. We have not had one concrete suggestion from either of the two parties.

Before I go on to reply to the debate, such as it was, I want to refer to the hypocrisy of the Opposition here today on the Order of Business and indeed at many other times over recent months in relation to the time being made available by the Government. At the request of the Opposition the Government made five hours available today to the two parties and arranged a time for each of them for their contributions. We find that the party who do most in claiming time for various topics opted out of the time available to them this evening to contribute to this debate. I hope that that fact is noted outside in the same way as the comments made here on the Order of Business in recent months.

Name the party.

It is a disgraceful situation and proves beyond doubt the hypocrisy of the Opposition during the discussion on the Order of Business today.

We occupied the full five hours.

They had to send for Deputy L'Estrange to come in and speak on the debate.

We had not.

Because the Labour Party opted out.

The Minister, without interruption.

The Minister is completely wrong. As Chief Whip, I do not speak——

As Chief Whip the Deputy should remain silent at this stage.

It is a good job the Deputy is here as Chief Whip to fill in.

We had half a dozen to fill in.

Where are they? The usual old jobs.

The Minister is entitled to be heard the same as everybody else.

I do not make false charges.

I want to come now to the content of the debate, to the Opposition and what they have been saying in relation to their attitude, and the way they see things as affording little hope of improvement for agriculture, when they claimed that there would be a further reduction in farm incomes in 1981. I am not as pessimistic as they are. The EEC agreement on prices and related measures, coupled with the aid provided by the Government is providing the foundation for a turn-around in agriculture. I am confident that the bottom of the agricultural recession has been passed and that recovery has begun. This is not my view alone, but that of my Party, the Government and of many independent commentators, some of whom, when they made statements in the recent past, found there were various organisations and Opposition spokesmen prepared to publicise those statements when it suited them. I should like them now to take note of what is being said by those independent commentators who are saying that there will be a significant increase in farm incomes this year. That, in itself, is tremendous progress considering the very serious drop there has been in the last two years. It was also contended by those independent commentators that the maximum financial benefit and incentive available in the Brussels negotiations were achieved by the Irish Government.

I want to refer briefly to something that has been like a game of draughts or snakes and ladders over the last number of months. In the months of September, October and November various figures were mentioned as to what was required to restore farm incomes. In September last commentators were mentioning a figure of £155 million. The Government took action in September in relation to expenditure of £34 million or £35 million on the items mentioned at that time. Lo and behold, as soon as we did, the £155 million became £250 million by 29 November. The Government continued to have discussions with the farm organisations and to examine ways and means of assisting them. We took measures in the budget. As soon as we did, lo and behold, the £250 million became £300 million and within a month it was £550 million.

The point I have been making—and it is generally accepted, although some people still refer to hundreds of millions of pounds which they know are not available here or in Brussels—is that when these discussions began with the farm organisations on the very serious problems which existed in Irish agriculture the figures being talked about were £100 million to £200 million. Since then with the measures the Government have taken in September, in the budget, and in the price negotiations in Brussels, the total amount of money earmarked in that short period to help the income situation and the general recession in agriculture is upwards of £300 million. That is a tremendous achievement having regard to our present very difficult financial constraints.

Deputy D'Arcy said the agreement is of little benefit to the farming community. Surely £215 million cannot be ignored and swept aside. I suggest the Deputy should ask some individual farmers what they think of it——

I have asked them.

——and how it will affect them. He asked me how much of the £215 million will reach the farmer's pockets. Largely this will depend on the farmers themselves and what they produce. The price conditions are there. They are well above last year's level and the way is open to getting even more than the £215 million. There are guranteed prices, guaranteed markets and great scope and potential for an increase in output.

This is very important for all of us who are interested in contributing to agriculture. We in political life are well aware of the opportunities which present themselves for people to make what might be described as political capital. My attitude is — and I hope those who are interested in agriculture will adopt the same attitude—to try to improve the situation because of the importance of agriculture to this economy.

I am glad Deputy L'Estrange has come back into the House because I did not want to refer to him in his absence. He referred to the ewe premium. I heard him trot this out in the Dáil on a few occasions when I did not have an opportunity to reply. I will use this opportunity.

I heard the promise made.

At no time in Donegal or anywhere else did any member of this party say that in the period from October to April of this year there would be a ewe premium of £7 available.

I heard Deputy Allen say it four times.

What was said was that from October to October, a 12 months period, if sheep prices went down they would be made up by a £7 a ewe premium. Let us look at what is happening?

I heard it said four times.

Deputy L'Estrange has to take his medicine whether he likes it or not. Because of the organisation of the sheep market——

I will listen to the truth.

Deputy L'Estrange, please.

I heard the Minister of State, Deputy Allen, say it four times.

The Minister is entitled to speak.

The prices for sheep meat have increased by 40 per cent. As a result of that the subsidy of £3.50 that could have come into effect because of the increase in prices in that period from October until now became 92 pence.

The £7 became——

Because of our concern for the farmers in Donegal and in the western and disadvantaged areas and the fact that they had sold their sheep when the bigger prices arrived, we, the Government, decided that we would give, along with the 92 pence, a premium of £2 additional headage grant payment this year——

They needed it.

——bringing the total payment to £2.92 as against the £3.50 that was possible if prices had stayed at their levels, but prices at the same time went up by 40 per cent. I am sorry that Deputy L'Estrange does not like it.

I would like the truth.

That is the truth and we have to accept it.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy L'Estrange, please.

Is it paid out yet? It is not paid in Wexford and Wicklow.

I heard him at three Church gates saying that there would be £7 for every farmer——

Deputy L'Estrange, please.

In a full year, I said.

Deputy L'Estrange should not come in to obstruct the business of the House.

(Interruptions.)

All they got was 92 pence. Deputy Allen has let the Minister down now.

Deputy Allen said "in a full year".

He has admitted.

(Interruptions.)

Please, Deputy L'Estrange. The business of the House should be allowed to proceed.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy D'arcy should not get in on it either.

Deputy D'Arcy questioned the benefit of the full green pound package. I find this very surprising. It was not so long ago that various interests here were pressing me to secure a green pound devaluation of the amount of the 1.5 per cent franchise. If such a devaluation were of benefit a few months ago surely it is of some benefit now.

That was not the point I was making.

The Deputy cannot deny the point he was making.

Deputy D'Arcy, please.

The Minister is misquoting us all the time.

I assure Deputies that the price increases that we have outlined are factual and any effort by the Opposition or anybody else to try to devalue them is a futile exercise because already this week the additional price increases will flow into the farmers' pockets.

Deputy D'Arcy was also concerned about lime usage but he seems to overlook that a subsidy is already contained in the special measures which we secured last week.

The Government took it away for the last four years.

I was struck by the lack of a positive or constructive suggestion from the other side during this debate. There was no mention of what funds would be needed to give help and of where those funds might be had. The funds available to the Government are not unlimited but despite this we provided as much as £75 million to help agriculture. Taken together with the £215 million of the price proposals for 1981 we are talking in terms of nearly £300 million since last September in aid for Irish agriculture. Nobody in their wildest dreams would have thought last September that it was possible, with the resources available, to provide the kind of money that has been provided.

There will still be a reduction of 4 per cent in farm incomes.

Deputy D'Arcy said that more aid to farmers is needed and that his party will provide it. But he did not specify what aid would be provided.

After the general election he will tell the present Government.

I am still waiting for specific indications. I would refer to the hypocrisy of Fine Gael in their presentation of a Bill to this House on 27 November as if they had spent months thinking of ways and means in which they could assist agriculture. Discussions had begun in August and September with the farming organisations and the subject matter of these discussions was widely publicised. Then, lo and behold, out of the blue, Fine Gael came out with a Bill talking about the six new ideas that Fine Gael would implement if they got the opportunity, the abolition of resource tax, on which a commitment had already been given months before by the Taoiseach——

Selective wealth tax.

——the repeal of the bovine diseases levy Act, a point that was number one on the agenda of the farming organisations as far back as August, the abolition of rates on agricultural lands and buildings, which was number two in the discussions of the farming organisations——

The Government did not do it.

——allowance for capital expenditure on breeding stock, infrastructure relief for certain farms——

(Interruptions.)

The Minister without interruption.

Fine Gael must have spent a lot of time finding out those new ideas to help Irish agriculture. They were on every single newspaper for months before that. On 27 November last Fine Gael decided, because there was so much publicity about this, it was better for them to put the six points together in a Bill and present them to the Dáil. Every single item mentioned there was in it.

I made a speech in September with the six points in it.

The Government have had discussions and taken positive action on every single one of those items and we are still waiting to see what Fine Gael have in mind for the farming community.

(Interruptions.)

Will Deputy L'Estrange please allow the Minister to speak?

Five hours were provided and they failed even to fill that time. Notwithstanding the fact that we asked for it, we still have not had one single suggestion from that side of the House. They are the people who say that they are capable of governing the country if an election is called in the near future. They have not a suggestion to put forward. They have had many opportunities but we have not heard one thing from them.

What about the 5 per cent interest subsidy we supported?

Deputy D'Arcy referred to the price increases in the different member states. He seemed to want different rates of increase for the various countries. He wanted a special higher price for Ireland. Does the Deputy really want to go along that dangerous road? Maybe his leader sitting beside him could give him some idea of the fundamental principles and the mechanisms of the CAP. If Fine Gael are not in favour of this the people are entitled to know. As long as this Government are here, in our efforts with the EEC, we will do everything we can to protect the fundamental principles and mechanisms of the CAP. If Fine Gael are not in favour of that will they say so?

(Interruptions.)

The CAP has brought us tremendous benefits over the years. We should be very careful about endangering it in any way. Now that Deputy D'Arcy has put it on the record of the House, I challenge Fine Gael to say if they protect and will fight to protect the CAP or they will not do so?

We always did.

The Deputy should withdraw what he said tonight.

Deputy FitzGerald was in favour of it.

(Interruptions.)

Will Deputy L'Estrange please allow the Minister to continue without interruption.

I am glad the Deputy reminded me of that because I know that Deputy FitzGerald was in favour of it. I want to come to a point which the Deputy has reminded me of, which was raised by a number of speakers during this debate, the so-called tremendous price increases that were obtained from 1973 to 1977. The price increases that were obtained between 1973 and 1977, which Deputy D'Arcy referred to, were as a result of green currency devaluations plus price increases of 4 per cent and 5 per cent, not 9½ per cent or 13½ per cent. I want to say quite clearly so that Fine Gael will understand it, that most of those price increases were obtained because of what was negotiated by Fianna Fáil in our entry to the EEC and, because of the inactivity of the Government in 1974, 1975 and 1976 and the drastic situation which developed, there have been tremendous difficulties ever since. It is only now that we are getting to the situation of turning that around. It is ludicrous for Deputies to come into the House and start talking about the price of cattle, the price of calves and the absence of a calf subsidy.

Why are the farmers going on the streets?

The Deputy did not contribute to the debate. The Chief Whip had to be called on. The Labour Party gave Fine Gael Deputies plenty of time and showed their hyprocrisy in looking for time to debate important measures. They were not even prepared to put up speakers, and not many Deputies have been in the House during this debate.

There were plenty of speakers.

The last people in this country to talk about the price of calves are on the Opposition benches because in 1974-75 there were no prices for calves and they could be swapped for a chicken. What did the then Government do about it? Absolutely nothing.

The farmers had an income then.

Deputy D'Arcy should allow the Minister to continue without interruption.

Calf prices have risen this week and if Deputy D'Arcy sold his calves cheaper it was probably in order to make a bogus point.

Deputy Bermingham talked at length about exports of live cattle and about the effects on the meat industry. At a meeting of the beef management committee on Friday last it was decided to increase the level of refunds on exports of fresh and chilled beef to third countries as well as on live cattle. These increases were a direct result of the price decisions. The increases in the export refunds are approximately 15 per cent for live cattle, 17 per cent for beef and 25 per cent for boneless beef. The latter increase was as a result of representations from my Department to the Commission. While I accept that the disadvantage on exports of boneless beef to third countries is not entirely removed, this must be seen as a step in the right direction. My officials will continue to press the Commission to eliminate completely this disadvantage. The new refunds should enable exporters to sell more of the middle range cuts in third country markets.

Why are the factories closing down?

Live horse and you will get grass.

Last year approximately 2,000 tons of fresh boneless beef were exported to third countries and I hope in the future that amount will be much higher as a result of the new increased export refunds.

I wish to stress that I am speaking only about trade with countries outside the Community. In the case of trade with other member states, who provide a market for some seven million tons of beef per annum, boneless beef is not suffering a disadvantage under EEC arrangements. If anything, it has an MCA advantage over carcase beef and live cattle. Canned beef imports to countries such as Germany and the UK have a very definite advantage over live cattle and carcase beef and there can be no question of so-called anomalies hindering the processing of meat here.

Regarding live exports to North Africa, which is the market for the bulk of our live exports, I am satisfied that the export refund system does not favour live exports by comparison with carcase beef.

I am happy to see that some Irish companies are beginning to exploit market opportunities in this area and I hope that the new refunds will give impetus to this development.

Regarding Deputy Berminghan's suggestion that we should impose a calf levy, I must remind him that we are part of a Community in which free trade in agricultural products is a major benefit to us. If we imposed levies on imports or exports, so could the other member states. He also said that we should halt calf exports. Since last November there has been little or no exporting of calves because of the tremendous prices available here for calf producers.

Deputy Bermingham mentioned cross-Border exports of cattle. One of the benefits of last week's settlement is that the discriminatory elements in the UK variable premium has been eliminated. This means there is no special variable premium incentive to send cattle over the Border instead of slaughtering them here. That is a very important point in relation to the negotiations, but the Opposition are anxious to ensure that these very important points are disregarded.

We welcome them for the farmers.

I am glad to hear that. Live exports in 1980 were little different from the average level of recent years. What has occurred is that the destination of much of our live exports has changed from Britain and the continent to North Africa, with little change in total numbers.

On the question of the calf subsidy, Deputy D'Arcy referred to phasing it out for Italy. As I said in my opening statement, the Commission and some member states want to abolish it completely. The Commission put forward a formal proposal to phase it out over the next few years. What has happened is that the rate of subsidy has been cut by about one-quarter and we can be certain that a further reduction will be sought next year.

When at the end of the negotiations we withdrew our request for a calf subsidy we got a very definite and positive commitment from the Commission not only to do something new about cattle production before 15 July, but we also got a positive commitment from the Commission to look at the social and regional areas arising from the very serious drop in farming incomes.

Live horse and you will get grass.

The Deputy has said that about six times tonight. All I can say is that since last September a lot of grass has been provided, £300 million. That is the position. It is not a question of live horse and you will get grass.

(Interruptions.)

Substantial and very positive measures have been taken by the Government at home and in Brussels to alleviate the very serious situation that existed over the past two years.

There has been a 50 per cent drop in farmers' incomes.

Deputy D'Arcy seemed to regret that in this year's budget we suspended the disease levy and also granted extensive rates relief.

These were two very valuable benefits for our farmers——

Imposed by Fianna Fáil.

——and I do not think many of them will agree——

Will Deputy D'Arcy allow the Minister to continue without interruption, please?

He does not like what we have done, but we are glad because of the benefit which will accrue to the farmers concerned. Deputy D'Arcy was critical of the fact that we do not have a bigger sugar quota than 182,000 tonnes.

I never mentioned that.

A little more than a year ago we were all concerned about the Commission's proposal to cut back our quota to 164,000 tonnes.

I never mentioned that. The Minister is misquoting me all the time.

Now our growers will have every opportunity to expand. I am glad to see the success the farmers' organisations and the Sugar Company are having in regard to increasing the sugar beet acreage this year.

You jailed them a few years ago for marching outside the Dáil gates.

Deputy D'Arcy and Deputy Bermingham expressed concern about farmers who borrowed heavily. The Government too, have been most concerned about farmers who are finding it difficult to meet their financial obligations.

But the Minister is not doing anything about it.

We have had a series of meetings with the banks and the ACC. Out of these meetings came various measures of assistance. We arranged for loans at a reduced rate of interest with the benefit of Exchequer cover for residential exchange risks. We arranged with the banks that they would restructure loans for farmers in serious financial difficulties. Liaison committees, representative of the banks, the ACC and the farm organisations and with official representation, were set up to monitor the situation. Discussions with the financial institutions are part of an ongoing process and, as I said earlier, we will be shortly meeting farmer representatives again. The great progress that has been made by the banks and the ACC in restructuring many thousands of loans has been a very positive advantage to many farmers.

Is that why they are selling their land?

We all accept that there are a number of farmers who for one reason or another find themselves still in serious difficulty and that is the reason we have had the discussions, chaired by my Minister of State, Deputy Smith. We will be discussing that aspect with the farming leaders in the next number of days.

It is good that the Minister is talking to them. It is a change from some years ago. At one time they had to await for three weeks on the footpath outside the Minister's door.

We are, notwithstanding the fact that at the Fine Gael Ard Fheis, and tonight, the Fine Gael spokesman on agriculture tried to put it into the mouths of farmer representatives not to talk to the Government.

I suggested that they call the Minister's bluff. The Minister has been bluffing for two years and he is bluffing tonight.

The discussions have been very fruitful and helpful to both sides. The fruit of them can be seen in the combination of measures at home and abroad amounting to £300 million. Nobody in their wildest dreams thought that was possible a few short months ago, and that is not the end.

It was £215 million a few moments ago.

If we are here much longer it will be £400 million.

The Minister should be allowed to continue without interruption.

Deputy D'Arcy referred to the EEC price increases during the period of the National Coalition. He admitted, however, that those figures included green £ changes. Of course, if we allowed the Irish currency to depreciate in the way that occurred during that period we could easily obtain green £ changes of the same scale, but that is not our attitude to this question.

What about sterling and the fact that the Irish pound is only worth 70p in England?

We are doing everything possible to contain inflation and have sought to help farmers in other ways by the good price settlement, the green £ change was secured without any adjustment to the Irish currency by a package of special measures to Ireland and by securing a further commitment to have further measures discussed and agreed by mid-July next.

Here we go again.

Live horse and get grass. Hills far away are green.

Deputy Kenny referred to the western package and sought to minimisè its value. That is a very easy thing to do. I live in the north-west and I am aware that there is tremendous interest in this proposal. When the western drainage scheme came in we had similar statements from the Opposition.

We will drain the Shannon this year. It will be drained before the general election. I have listened to that for 40 years.

We have a five-year drainage programme and we heard similar Opposition statements in relation to that programme. The situation now is that in a short time we have almost committed the entire expenditure and the possibility is that that five-year programme will be finished within three years. I have already begun discussions with Brussels to have that renewed before the end of the five-year term.

Apparently, there is no shortage of work but there are still 127,000 people unemployed.

I have done so because of the demand by farmers in the west for participation in this scheme. I can see the same situation arising in relation to the measures proposed under the western package. Deputy Kenny wants to see that as well, but he seeks to minimise the effects. It is the duty of every representative interested in the agricultural industry to be open, frank and honest in regard to what is available in the new price proposals. If they have alternatives let us hear them. We have spent five hours today debating this motion but not a solitary constructive suggestion has been made by them.

Poor stuff.

This little green document tells a little story about what Fine Gael have in store for the farmers — of course they have not discussed this with Labour, as a Deputy behind me has said. The sum total of their support for agriculture is contained in this six point paper.

It is only a short-term rescue package.

These matters, all of these items, have been under active discussion between the Government and the farming leaders. They were specifically looked after by the Government in proposals made in September, in the budget and in the Brussels package. There is not much more I have to say except to repeat that I am disappointed with the response from the other side.

Not as disappointed as the farmers are with the Minister.

Innocents in Europe, that is all they are.

As I said at the beginning, every day since this Dáil assembled we had their hypocrisy on the Order of Business calling for debates on certain measures, but as the Taoiseach said this morning, when they got the opportunity they wasted it. The proof was there tonight. We had five hours for this motion. The people who kicked up most about allocation of time for debate were the Labour Party but tonight they did not attempt to use the time available to them. Fine Gael had to go out, because there was not a Deputy in the House but Deputies D'Arcy and Kenny, to try to get a speaker to fill up the time. It was then arranged between the Whips that Deputy L'Estrange would conclude the debate for Fine Gael. I am glad a spare was here because it saved Fine Gael to some extent. However, the concern of the combined Opposition for the agricultural community, exemplified tonight, amounts only to trying to throw water on the positive, constructive steps taken by the Government on behalf of the agricultural community. The farmers know that their future lies solidly and squarely with this party and with this Government.

Question put: "That the words proposed to be deleted stand."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 52; Níl, 26.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Cogan, Barry.
  • Fitzsimons, James N.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Dennis.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Keegan, Seán.
  • Killeen, Tim.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Loughnane, William.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McSharry, Ray.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Coughlan, Clement.
  • Crinion, Brendan.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Farrell, Joe.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Dublin South-Central)
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Morley, P. J.
  • Nolan, Tom.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy C.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael J.

Níl

  • Barry, Myra.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Cosgrave, Michael J.
  • D'Arcy, Michael J.
  • Donnellan, John F.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Cavan-Monaghan).
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Gilhawley, Eugene.
  • Horgan, John.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Mannion, John M.
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Quinn, Ruairi.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Moore and Briscoe; Níl, Deputies L'Estrange and W. O'Brien.
Question declared carried.
Amendment declared lost.
Motion agreed to.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.05 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 5 May 1981.
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