asked the Minister for Education if he intends to introduce psychologists into schools; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
24.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Schools Psychologist Service.
23.
asked the Minister for Education if he recently received a submission from the Psychological Society of Ireland about the need for a psychological service in schools; and the action he intends to take in the matter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 23 and 24 together.
I consider the scheme for the appointment of guidance teachers in second-level schools to be suitable and adequate to the requirements and I do not propose to introduce a scheme for the appointment of psychologists on the staffs of such schools.
In so far as primary schools are concerned, I am of the view that the priority consideration should be the appointment of remedial teachers and a further improvement in the pupil/teacher ratio in some schools.
Is the Minister not prepared to take note of the report of the psychological service to schools published by the Psychological Society of Ireland, which indicated that other developed countries have such an advanced service in their schools and that Ireland is seriously lagging behind in initiating a psychological service in our public schools? May I take it from the Minister's reply that he does not now intend to establish such a psychological service in our public schools?
As I indicated in my reply, as far as the primary school system is concerned I consider my priorities are for remedial teachers and improvement of the pupil-teacher ratio. With regard to the post-primary schools, the situation with regard to psychologists and inspectors of guidance is in accordance with the UNESCO ratio.
Would the Minister not accept that his statement to us today is a direct rebuff to the Psychological Society of Ireland and to their document? Can he tell us if he has, as yet, met officers of the association to discuss the document with them?
I would hate the Deputy to get the impression that I was rebuffing anybody who is trying to put something useful into the development of our educational system. I indicated that in post-primary schools we had about the ratio that UNESCO recommends with regard to psychologists. As far as the primary system is concerned, I told the House what my priorities are. I would like also to call the attention of the House to the fact that those who study for the Batchelor of Education degree now study psychology and are in a position to advise referrals. The situation is not as it was 50 years ago, when the knowledge of psychology was very paltry. I am quite happy that at both primary and post-primary levels we are at the moment being catered for in the psychological field.
Is the Minister satisfied that there is not a need for psychologists in our primary schools? Does he not intend taking heed of the report which we mentioned or of the recommendation of UNESCO in relation to the establishment of a psychological service in our primary schools?
I have more respect for the qualifications of our primary teachers than Deputy Collins seems to have. I am satisfied that they have sufficient expertise from their professional qualifications to be able to refer to practising psychologists any cases they assume, think or diagnose capable of benefiting therefrom. I want also to say that, as far as the post-primary section is concerned, it is very adequately covered.
I am sorry the Minister has chosen to twist things.
There is an EEC quota of red herrings which he is not aware of.
He certainly is not aware of that. Is the Minister aware of the UNESCO recommendation in relation to the employment of psychologists and is he aware of the extra contribution they can make together with teachers in our primary schools?
When Deputy Collins originally put down his question he referred to UNESCO. We had to get in touch with him and when he was asked about "in accordance with the recommendations of the UNESCO report" he withdrew that from the question. I have already said that the UNESCO target of one psychologist to 6,000 plus pupils has been reached by us so far as post-primary schools are concerned.
What about the primary schools?
I have confidence in the teachers' qualifications in those schools.
So have I.