asked the Minister for the Environment why he proposes to maintain the local authority housing programme at a level of 6,000 completions a year in view of the substantial housing application list; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Housing Programme.
16.
The purpose of the local authority housing programme is to provide satisfactory housing accommodation for families who are in need of rehousing but who are not able to provide the necessary accommodation from their own resources. The level of the programme is determined on the basis of the overall housing need as indicated by the approved waiting lists of housing authorities and the capital for local authority house construction provided by the Government in the context of the general economic situation and the competing demands for other social services. On the basis of these criteria the Government have decided on a programme geared to provide about 6,000 new houses each year. Combined with casual vacancies in existing local authority houses this allows for the rehousing annually of between 8,000 and 9,000 approved applicants off waiting lists. The average number of approved applicants on housing application lists in the four years 1977 to 1980 was 26,730 which, in effect, indicates a three year turnover of all approved applications, two-thirds of which were in respect of families of three persons or fewer.
The provision of local authority housing cannot be considered in isolation from other important facets of housing policy. Directly as a result of this Government's overall policy on housing, annual housing completions have been increasing steadily since 1976 when 24,000 were completed. The total completions last year, 27,785, was an all time record. Because of the Government's measures to encourage home ownership, the most recent of which was the housing package which the Minister announced on 10 April, many who might otherwise look to local authorities for rehousing are in a position to provide their own houses.
Would the Minister not agree that during the period of the last Government in office the then Fianna Fáil leader on more than one occasion claimed that the Government were building too many local authority houses in relation to the total number of houses being built and in fact, when the present Government took office, they put that theory into practice? Is it not true the Government are building fewer local authority houses than were built since 1972? Is the Minister also aware that a local authority on the verge of Dublin city and Dublin county are in fact considering 148 applications for 48 local authority houses? Does he not know that every local authority in Ireland have had their waiting lists increased enormously because of the stupid policy adopted by Fianna Fáil?
Of course, this is not the position. As I said, our aim is for approximately 6,000 local authority houses per year. I indicated in my reply that this is geared to dealing with the applications we have before us. Home ownership for people has always been the policy of this Government. We are doing everything in our power to encourage people to have their own homes and that is the reason that we brought in this new housing package. I consider this to be the right policy. Our record with regard to local authority housing is one we can be proud of and is nothing to be ashamed about.
In the light of what the Minister of State has said about his party's commitment to house ownership, would he like to comment on the fact, attested by the official reports of his own Department, that when the National Coalition left office in July 1977 the average price of a new house was approximately £12,000 whereas it is currently approximately £29,000, an increase of almost 150 per cent, three to four times the rate of increase of general inflation?
(Interruptions.)
Will the Minister of State not mind Jack Sprat? Will he just answer the question?
Will the Deputy not get all hot and bothered?
If what Deputy Kelly said was true we could not have a record number of houses built under this Government. The fact is that we have had a record number of houses built.
Is the Minister of State disputing the accuracy of the figures which his Department have supplied?
I am not disputing anything.
(Interruptions.)
Is it formal Fianna Fáil housing policy to reduce, as a percentage of the total number of houses completed in any given year, and to reduce in absolute terms as well, the number of local authority houses completed? Is it Government policy to do that?
I want to make it very clear, for the record, that we have always met the requirements of local authority housing. This is borne out in my reply. Our policy is to encourage home ownership and, at the same time, meet the requirements of local authority housing.
Would the Minister not accept that if it is not Government policy to reduce local authority completions then something has gone seriously wrong not just with house prices but with this as well? Is the Minister of State, when talking about home ownership, denying the reality that every local authority tenant, when successfully housed, has both the status and the right to acquire his or her house as a home owner? Why does the Minister make a distinction between the two?
We are giving them every encouragement.
No, the Minister of State is making a distinction between the two.
(Interruptions.)
A final supplementary. Deputy FitzGerald.
The Minister in his reply made reference to 8,000 to 9,000 people being housed annually allowing for vacancies occurring, and related that figure to 26,000. Did I hear him correctly as following that with words to this effect "indicating a turnover of all applicants every three years". Could the Minister repeat the phrase and tell me if I got it correctly?
The average number of approved applicants on housing application lists for the four years 1977 to 1980 was 26,730 which in effect indicates a three-year turnover of all approved applications.
I wanted to establish the accuracy of my quotation. Would the Minister not accept that we cannot take those two figures in conjunction and arrive at the conclusion of a turnover of all applicants every three years? That is the average turnover because many applicants may have to wait much longer than that. It is not a question of rotating right through the applicants in order. Many people may have to wait five or ten years under this Government's housing policy. Why does the Minister seek to mislead the House on this question?
What I have given is the average.
The Minister did not use the word "average". He said "indicating a turnover of all applicants every three years".
It indicates a three-year turnover of all applications.
That is not true. The Minister knows that and he should not have said it.
(Interruptions.)
(Cavan-Monaghan): A brief supplementary.
I am sorry Deputy but I am calling question No. 17.
(Cavan-Monaghan): For the past three weeks I have been trying to get information about the package the Minister is talking about. Is the Minister aware that I have written dozens of letters to his Department asking for particulars of the new housing grant scheme and I have not got a reply to one letter? Would he see this evening that my letters are replied to?
I was not aware of the position but I will look after it.
Let the other Minister of State, Deputy Connolly, do it; he seems to have nothing else to do.