The next business is the nomination of Taoiseach. I will now receive motions.
Nomination of Taoiseach.
On behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party, I propose Deputy Charles J. Haughey as Taoiseach.
Ba mhaith liom cuidiú leis sin.
Molaim duit, a Cheann Comhairle, an Teachta Gearóid Mac Gearailt agus molaim go n-ainmneoidh an Dáil é le dul os comhair an Uachtaráin le bheith againn mar Thaoiseach agus Ceann an Rialtais. It gives me very great pleasure and is, indeed, an honour to propose the name of Deputy Garret FitzGerald as Taoiseach and Head of the Government of the Republic of Ireland. Deputy FitzGerald possesses all the excellent qualities for this very high office, especially the great quality of leadership which is recognised internationally, as well as within the State. I ask Dáil Éireann to approve of my proposal for his nomination to the President of Ireland for appointment as Taoiseach.
I formally second the proposal of Dr. Garret FitzGerald as Taoiseach.
I am now putting the question that Deputy Charles Haughey be nominated as Taoiseach.
On a point of information, surely we will be allowed to speak on the question?
Yes, as there were no speakers when the names were mentioned, I thought there was to be no discussion. I gladly allow discussion.
It is important that those of us who are taking positions independent of the big parties should say why we are taking up these positions in respect of the two people proposed for the very important position of Taoiseach. It is very rarely that I have found myself in this position. The Members will appreciate that it is unusual that, as a Member of a minority party and an independent Member, we should have the power which we appear to have at present. We owe it to the country, to the electorate and to the Deputies for whom this honour is proposed, to say why we intend to support them or vote against them, or even to abstain.
Everybody will recall that, some 18 months ago when Deputy Haughey, following the strange episode of his assumption of power in the Fianna Fáil Party, was proposed as Taoiseach I opposed his nomination on that occasion. I gave a number of reasons and will not go into them again. I gave my reasons, based on my knowledge of Deputy Haughey over a very long time, going back to the fifties. Strictly on a political analysis of his policies and his defects, I came to the conclusion, having watched him in many ministries, ministries which one could only envy him for having had the privilege of holding—Finance, Justice, Agriculture, Health—that he did not acquit himself to the extent that would have merited his being considered seriously for the position of Taoiseach. I said at that time that those factors, together with other considerations, led me to conclude that Deputy Haughey would be a person unsuited to be Taoiseach and would, in fact, be a bad Taoiseach. Events have supported that belief. He has just gone to the country, although he had the magnificent majority of 20 Deputies won for him by his predecessor whom he displaced, Deputy Jack Lynch. He had approximately 18 months left to run and surprisingly he went to the country. Inexplicably he decided not to wait his full term. We later found out the reasons for his decision to go to the country and I am informed reliably on this. The economy was in such serious disarray as a result of the profligate borrowing policies followed by the Taoiseach and his Government that he had no alternative but to go to the country and seek a new mandate so that he might have three, four or five years in which to impose the very penal, severe fiscal policies needed to put the economy right again. As we know, he received neither a personal mandate nor a mandate for his party.
Over the last four years I raised a number of important issues—matters of private morality and private conscience, matters particularly affecting minorities, matters important in the context of the Northern Ireland question—matters like divorce, contraception, capital punishment and so on—and I found Deputy Haughey's attitude to be completely rigid, unyielding, uncompromising and totally intransigent.
During a debate in this House on the disreputable subject of the arms trial, in which the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Labour Party contributed—and I attach a lot of importance to this—Deputy Haughey treated the House with total contempt. He refused to attend the House; he refused to reply to the debate and, much more important, he refused to reply to the very serious charges impugning his honour and his reputation, which I felt it was his responsibility to do. To me it seemed he was either contemptuous of what we thought of his position or integrity, or he was afraid to come in here and reply. Because of all these things and because of his failure on the economy and on social and other matters, I find I must vote against Deputy Haughey's nomination as Taoiseach.
On the question of the nomination of Deputy FitzGerald as Leader of a Coalition Government, most people will know I have had special experience of being a member of the first Coalition Government. At that time I welcomed the introduction of this form of Government to our political life because as a young man I hoped it meant the end of the total stagnation of civil war politics in our society.
I learned a salutary lesson from my experience in that inter-Party Government—I am not referring to the mother and child scheme but to something much more important—which was composed of four parties. It is worth looking back and asking Members of this House who know more about politics than anybody else in the country if they can remember the names of those parties. I will tell them. Clann na Poblachta—where are they now? What happened to them? Clann na Talmhan—where are they? What happened to them? The National Labour Party—where are they? What happened to them? Deep down in the maws of the Fine Gael Party rest the remains of those parties. Where are the Irish Labour Party, then a strong and growing powerful party but now a shrinking, small, getting smaller, relatively impotent party? I say this with the deepest regret and the greatest sorrow. Should we not learn something from that?
On the other hand, we should learn from this. The newly formed Fine Gael Party had just emerged from the Cumann na nGaedheal Party. I recall one of the Fine Gael Ministers coming into the Cabinet Room and delightedly telling me he had just come back from the Ard-Fheis in the Mansion House which had been packed to the doors. In those days it was a great achievement to pack the Mansion House with an Ard-Fheis. He said that the previous year the Fine Gael Ard-Fheis could have been held in Buswells Hotel. It gets worse. In 1981 the Fine Gael Ard-Fheis could hardly fit in the enormous exhibition room of the RDS. Further, we saw Deputy FitzGerald —and it is to his credit—producing a Fine Gael Party, growing, powerful and deeply conservative—do not mind the cosmetic changes—with 65 Deputies taking their fourth—and will it be their last —bite of the Labour cherry. Are we to see in this Dáil the end of Connolly's Labour Party as we saw the end of other small parties?
I had hoped the Labour Party might decide to negotiate either with Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael to get the best bargain they could and stay out of office, but they have not done that. That was their decision, and it is none of my business, but I suspect it was an unwise decision.
I do not think that this Coalition, with all the very grave economic problems left to them by the incompetence of the Fianna Fáil Government, can, because of their belief in the monopoly capitalist system, create the kind of society which possibly many of them would like to create within that system. There is no reform of the capitalist system and the evils that it creates. Capitalism must be abolished and replaced by a socialist society. I am glad to say that for the first time in the 60 years of our Dáil we have at last three, if not four, serious socialists in the Dáil.
For this reason, therefore, I intend to abstain in the voting on the nomination of Deputy FitzGerald as Taoiseach.
Contrary to what some people might believe, it has been very difficult for me to reach a decision on the election of Taoiseach. I have been influenced by a number of factors in making my decision. One of those factors was the performance of the Fianna Fáil Government during the past four years. Their sweeping victory was bought at too high a price. They bought the election with grandiose promises which could not be fulfilled and could not be paid for. This has been realised by the people. Fianna Fáil went to the country in the recent election seeking a mandate but they were not given that mandate. The people voted in their fashion for change, although it may have been in a strange and inconclusive way. I respect the decision of the people.
I have also been governed in my decision regarding the election of the Taoiseach by Fianna Fáil's policies over the years, especially during the past 18 months. I recently described their policy as being dangerous and mischievous and I have no reason to change that opinion. Dangerous and mischievous policies can result in civil war and the past ten bloody years in Northern Ireland should make us all face the reality of the situation.
It will be very difficult to win the trust and confidence of the Northern Protestant community while we continue to claim jurisdiction over them in Articles 2 and 3 of our Constitution. These Articles represent a real barrier to dialogue and to peace, progress, co-operation and harmony on this island. To talk about uniting our territory while ignoring people is to fly in the face of reality. One can only talk about uniting people, not about jurisdiction over people when we have no right to make such a claim. Neither have we the will, the strength or the muscle to carry out that exercise. We must break down sectarian barriers in all parts of this island and above all we must break down denominational education whereby the minds of the respective communities are poisoned. These barriers can be broken down only through genuine friendship, good neighbourliness and good relations between the two communities. We must play a role in the coming together of peoples in this island.
We have had Government here by public relations and, at times, Government by default instead of Government in the interest of the people. We have become very skilled at Government by public relations if one is to judge by the media.
I also have reservations about voting for Deputy FitzGerald and a Coalition Government. Indeed, I have my reservations about the Labour Party as well. In my talks last week with Deputy O'Leary, the newly elected Leader of the Labour Party, I said that as a socialist I did not want the Labour Party to be revolutionary or ultraradical but at least they should be serious about the attainment of socialist objectives, no matter how long-term they are, and should work towards those objectives with a serious purpose and intent. Labour have not shown that seriousness during the past decade and have gone backwards. Some party members have blamed the people for the rejection of Labour in the city areas. However, I believe that Labour have failed to be relevant to the people, especially in urban areas. My own progress in Limerick, modest though it has been, shows that if one sticks to one's socialist policies through thick and thin the people will have respect and will respond when leadership is given. Perhaps in my election there is some lesson for the Labour Party.
I would not expect Deputy FitzGerald to change the essential nature of the party he leads but I would expect from him and from the Labour Party in coalition honest and decent government in telling the people where we stand. I am also concerned with the matter of employment and any support I may give today will be conditional and qualified and will be, above all, critical support. My decision is made freely. I am my own man, have always been and will continue to be in this House.
I found my foot in some strange doors last week and my foot will stay inside those doors. If I vote today for a Government I will do so intending to exercise my role as a guarantor of the package put before the people last weekend and to see that those proposals are carried through. If Deputy FitzGerald is elected Taoiseach I will be a frequent visitor to his door because I intend to use my voice and all the strength I have to ensure that we pull the Irish people into the modern world and tell them the truth about the many questions facing us.
I am concerned also about taxation and I am not happy with the package put before us. In due course I will have something to say on that matter.
I expect better relations with Northern Ireland and I feel that the Articles I have mentioned are offensive to certain people in the North.
It has been said that the independent Members can play the role of king-makers. I have read a little about history and sometimes king-makers do not last as long as kings. I am very conscious of that and I do not intend to let this fleeting moment of notoriety go to my head. I intend to use my position not in any reckless way but in a serious way to attain some of the objectives towards which we must work. My vote will be based on that decision and if there is any attempt by Fine Gael or Labour to go back on the agreement they have reached I will be the first person to pull the rug from under them. I can go back to my hammer and trowel in a few weeks or a few months as the case may be. I have suffered defeats in the past, so the prospect of defeat and a Government falling does not frighten me in the least.
I say to Deputy FitzGerald and Deputy O'Leary that if they have my vote today it is freely and willingly given and no price has been paid for it. My hands are totally clean and no deal has been done or pact reached. That vote is given on condition that they will have a good and decent Government who will respect the Irish people as they have not been respected in the past.
A Cheann Comhairle and fellow Members of the twenty-second Dáil, I believe that the country needs a national Government, the pooling of the brains of the best men and women, putting their country before their party. The economy is in such a bad state that if we are not careful we will find that whatever Government come to power will not actually govern the country but that the World Bank will be telling us what we must do as the IR£ is devalued and inflation and unemployment get worse. The three parties have fine talents and they should pool their resources in the national interest. I floated this idea in "Day by Day" on radio a few days ago and the feedback has been tremendous. I asked RTE to articulate this idea and explain the concept. They refused, although they allowed me on to a few radio programmes and it got a mention on television.
Last Saturday I went to the races and met businessmen——
(Interruptions.)
——who were very concerned about the state of the economy and who feared that, if we did not get a Government who would manage our economy for at least two or three years, the country would be in a dire position. In this regard I objectively considered the talks which took place between Fine Gael and Labour the other day. Before the election two parties presented us with policies which would save our country and after the election they were prepared to dilute their policies to put Fianna Fáil out of office and because they were lusting for power. That is not a good enough reason. Fine Gael and Labour should have approached Fianna Fáil in an effort to get the best talents of the three parties to govern for two or three years. The precedent is there in Switzerland, the oldest democracy in Europe. We could have Deputy Haughey as Taoiseach for the first year, Deputy Dr. FitzGerald for the second year and Deputy Michael O'Leary for the third year.
(Interruptions.)
We would have good stable Government for at least three years and by then the people would have sorted them out and we would have a general election. We are now faced with a situation in which the Government will not be able to manage our economy, or the Northern situation. In relation to the North a national Government should look at the Northern situation and, instead of condemning the atrocities as they occur and brushing the whole thing under the carpet, they should face it as a political question to be solved immediately in justice to the Nationalists, the Loyalists, the Republicans and the Unionists. The Government should face the fact that the Unionists fear domination from Dublin in a united Ireland concept. However, we need a united Ireland on a federal basis, and we can get it. My friends in America will support this. Britain imposed Partition on Ireland 60 years ago as a temporary measure and the Unionist Party in the North consolidated it.
I have been involved in this question for many years. I asked Mr. Edward Heath to study the Unionist injustices in Ireland going back 50 years and when Mr. Hook of the Foreign Office in London said that he was going to Rome and would visit the Pope and tell him of Britain's rights in the province of Ulster, I wrote to the Pope and told him my views in terms of a federal solution in justice to all parties. The Papal Nuncio gave me the usual acknowledgement and informed me a few weeks later that my letter had reached its high destination. Archbishop Ó Fiach was called to Rome and he afterwards made a statement about the North. Until Ireland is free, until Partition is faced squarely by all the political parties, innocent people will die.
Deputy Dr. Browne, my colleague, said that Fianna Fáil have not delivered. There are various reasons why we have not been able to make progress in terms of our economic situation and in terms of our political situation, much of which have to do with Mrs. Thatcher coming into our backyard one week before the election and rubbing our noses in the dirt. Mrs. Thatcher, as a Prime Minister, should never have come into the Taoiseach's backyard in that manner one week before an election. That is one reason why Fianna Fáil did not get the mandate. I credit Fianna Fáil with the fact that they put the interests of the country and the joint talks first. Things have been done behind the scenes in relation to the H-Blocks issue. I would ask the three main political parties to seriously consider pooling their resources in a national Government in order to continue to deal with this and our economic problems.
Last Tuesday The Irish Times did a survey which showed that all that the people want is a Government which will manage our economy, which will deal with the Northern question in justice to all the parties and to get the British Government to undo what they did 60 years ago as a temporary arrangement. They want a Government which will implement a policy of real decentralisation, a policy of accepting the role of agriculture in our economy and which will pursue consensus politics and so on. They do not want this extraordinary situation in which one person can bring this new Government down. It is a wrong situation to allow party politics to divide us when we should have an approach towards national politics for the good of the country. For the past 20 years I have been above the concept of divisive party politics as we are too small a country for it.
I thank God for giving me this seat, although it is a very dicey situation as I may be out in a matter of weeks or months. I also thank my wife, Una, who stood beside me through thick and thin over 20 years.
(Interruptions.)
But for her I would not be here today. I thank all voters who supported me across party divisions. I cannot take part in a situation where the parties will not take up the suggestion to put the good of their country before their party interests. Too many political assassinations have occurred in the three parties and it will take perhaps years to cool the political situation. We should cool the political situation and look to the interests of our country.
As a Deputy for Sinn Fein the Workers Party I welcome an opportunity to state my position in relation to the vote on the Taoiseach. Having been involved at local government level since 1974 and having judged the Fianna Fáil performance and their failure to give attention to the issues affecting working people particularly, and in the light of the mandate given by the electorate. I will vote against the Fianna Fáil nominee. My party's total opposition to Coalition has been justified. If it took a whole week to bring about a situation in which agreement could be reached between the two parties, it means that at the outset there must have been a wide difference. It is surprising that at election time when issues are identified there is no problem getting commitment at party meetings, but when it comes to the implementation of whatever agreements are made it is a different matter. My purpose as a Sinn Fein the Workers Party representative is to build a strong workers' opposition in the Dáil and I have decided not to support the Fine Gael nominee. For the purpose of forming a Government I will abstain on that vote. By giving no commitment to coalition I make it clear that I will judge each vote on its merits. The workers must be made to feel that this is their country and it is my intention to ensure that that is done by supporting the issues which were the issues in the election.
We are here today after an election which in my estimation never should have been fought. The last thing this country needed was an election. The result given, which is anything but clear, perhaps is the verdict of the electorate on the rather foolish, unwanted chore we were all put to, the people particularly, and the cost to and neglect of our community and the economy in the meantime. Perhaps that is their verdict, no clear verdict one way or the other.
We find ourselves here today also minus two Members of the new expanded Dáil of 166. Those two are in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh. I would wish to have it go from here—from me if from nobody else—that we regret their absence, their inability to attend. I would hope that collectively we, as an elected new Dáil, whatever form the Government may take, will henceforth and forthwith clearly and in the open come out and be seen to be concerned about the tragedy that is unfolded by their absence here today.
I should say that the unwanted election we had is nothing compared with how unwanted a further election would be. I do not say this because I am afraid of an election; I say it because I knew from the people before we had an election that we did not need or want one. I know even more clearly now, since the campaign, that we certainly do not need or want another one. All I can hope is that the workings, programmes and operations of this House will be such that we do not have a precipitate election, going back to the people who have so many other matters of grave importance with which to deal rather than having to deal with another election in a matter of weeks or months. However, that may happen and if it does well and good. Let us hope that it will not and that the incoming Government will set about rectifying a situation that has reached disastrous proportions. I am not the one to attribute those disastrous proportions in regard to our economy and economic ills of today solely to the Government of either the last 18 months or that led by Jack Lynch in the previous two and a half years. Do not forget that in 1977 the last Coalition Government had started to preside over the rot from which we are now suffering to an even greater degree in an international economic situation that is anything but promising and has indeed been difficult for several years.
During the election campaign the electorate had the sad, unenviable task of trying to choose between bad and worse. It is a matter of which way one might lean as to which one could describe as bad and which as worse. In so far as the pre-1977 and post-1977 Governments are concerned both have done a grave disservice to this country and its economy. It is our duty, as an elected Parliament, to try to undo—in haste—some of the damage that has been done before we find ourselves in the position outlined by a previous speaker a few moments ago of not having any real say in what we are to do about our economy in the future but rather have it dictated to us, as indeed our sister island, England, had it so dictated not so very long ago, and she is a much bigger entity.
In so far as voting in this contest, as it were—on the choice of Taoiseach—is concerned, despite what I have been saying I am realistic enough to realise that whether we have bad or worse, this is what we have and from that we must choose. I am a full believer—and indeed I forecast during the election that we would have a close finish—that despite that close finish in this House I should respond responsibility to the needs of the country in not trying to frustrate the formation of a Government but indeed, if at all possible, aid the election of a Government in order that we could get back to work and get something done about our economy. It is not easy for me, no more than for anybody else in this House, to make a decision, and not just one because we have two propositions before us, each of which will be taken separately. Up to perhaps a few days ago my mind was very much: a plague on both your houses. I say that with no disrespect meant in any undue way to either Deputy Charles Haughey, our Taoiseach of today, or to Deputy Garret FitzGerald, the leader of the Opposition. My thought, perhaps mischievous, was that I would love to have the opportunity of my vote being capable of beating both of them and sending them around the house again. However, that is perhaps as one thinks after an election, before one gets down to the hard realities which the election was about, a Parliament from which a Government must emanate.
It is not on the basis of the operations of Fianna Fáil under Deputy Charles Haughey in the past 18 months or, indeed, before it, that I would subscribe my vote on their performance. Their performance has been poor, to say the least of it. On the other hand, I have had discussions with the Taoiseach. I have had discussions—if such they could be called; they were rather short but I think quite fruitful—with the leader of the Opposition, Deputy Garret FitzGerald. I have had the opportunity of reading the joint programme, as all Members will have had, of the proposed Coalition Government.
In talking to the Taoiseach I was indeed impressed by his belief on two points which above all others concern me and I am sure most Members of this House. Despite my criticism of the lack of progress in regard to the economy—employment being the under-pinning situation there—and the North, the Six Counties, Partition, call it what you will, despite my not being at all satisfied and in fact being very dissatisfied in recent years in regard to the performance of the present Government, I did receive from the Taoiseach a commitment—and I do not think I am wrong in saying this—if Fianna Fáil did return, in regard to two things—which among many others I and my small party have been seeking, not in the last week or month but indeed for the last five years, and before the 1977 election—on the economic side and on the employment side. There would be what I believe would be the only answer at this point in time, a massive construction programme involving houses, roads, sewers, water schemes, piers, schools, hospitals extensions, all the things for which our growing population are calling out and which we are unable to provide because, we are told, of lack of money at present. At the same time we have almost 130,000 pairs of idle hands, each costing—-though of course they are not getting it—an average of £4,500 per annum. Half of that number are quite capable of building, and desire to build, the things we need, things which will cost three or four times what they would today when we come to do them in five, 10 or 15 years time, as the case may be.
I do not believe there is any other way we can get ourselves out of the mess we are in. Admittedly not all of it was of our own making but was contributed to by our passive attitude, our feeling that so long as we can have social welfare without regard to where the money comes from we can continue until somebody else does something in some other part of the world that will cure our depression. I am a complete believer in the adage that we cannot idle our way out of the depression, that we must work our way out of it. I believe this is the way. I am satisfied that if the present Taoiseach and his party were the Government a massive construction programme, designed not only to provide the things we need for our growing population but also to provide much-needed employment, would have been undertaken. I also believe that on the sad story of the Six Counties, of which the H-Blocks are only a symptom, there would be a more definitely open operation in regard to that matter vis-á-vis Mrs. Thatcher and the British Government than there has been up to now. On the basis of those two beliefs I would be prepared to support Deputy Charles Haughey as Taoiseach in the coming term.
I have got from the Taoiseach an answer to a memorandum of requests put forward by the six Independents, who met and formed themselves into a group for procedural purposes so that we can assist each other procedurally in the House to play a fuller part in it than individual Independent Members can do. I have got a favourable response from the Taoiseach in regard to the six matters we discussed as a group last Friday. I know, as far as Deputy Dr. Garret FitzGerald, the leader of the Opposition, is concerned, that the memo did not reach him until sometime very late today. I am sorry about that, but it was not our fault. The memo went but apparently it got lost on the way, like so many other things. I am relying on getting a favourable response from all parties, whoever is in Government, because they will form the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, on which we are seeking to get representation so that we will know what is going on and can help to get things going better. I am taking this as likely to be agreed by all three parties. We would be very thankful for this.
With regard to Deputy Dr. Garret FitzGerald as Taoiseach, the Coalition programme which has been agreed contains an amazing amount that was in my election programme of 1977. I will not say that anybody picked it out of my programme, but it is certainly there. I can show Deputies copies of both. The programme contains proposals such as the reintroduction of reconstruction grants. The worst thing that was ever done was to do away with those reconstruction grants, because preserving houses is equal to building houses and it can be done for much less. We have been seeking this.
With regard to the stay at home wife's allowance, we are one better than the Coalition on that. We are talking about £20, taxable, rather than tax credits. The purpose behind this is not only to redress something which we are all aware of over the years, the neglect to provide money for wives even in well-off households, but also to make it attractive enough to those who must work at the moment to come back home and not alone care better for their young families but relinquish a job outside which would then be available for some young person now idle. A sum of £9.60 will not do that, but £20 might. I give full credit to those who have put this in the programme.
The sheep subsidy contains the same figure as mine. We are rooting for the cow subsidy because it is badly needed. We also need the calf subsidy. I hope they are all only temporary measures to bring up our declining herd numbers. There is an increased lime subsidy in the programme. We have been seeking that also. There are also improved silage grants. They are not being sufficiently improved, although they are better than nothing.
With regard to the change in third level education, we have been talking over the years about discrimination and that only the children of the well-off people could afford to avail of third level education. Now we have turned the wheel almost full circle and no longer is there equal opportunity. We are not concerned about choosing those who are capable of benefiting from third level education but by our points system we are putting it on a competitive basis and saying to those who are able to avail of it, even if they are prepared to pay for themselves that because they have not got the points they are not acceptable. I accept the point of matriculation running side by side with the points system, which would remain for the purpose of giving education grants to those who need them. I fully agree with that. The youth training programme and employment schemes for youth are also very attractive.
However, I do not believe that the tax arrangements which have been proposed, and which would take quite a lot of research to work out, are capable of funding what I have gone over. There are quite a number of things which will cost money additional to what we are spending at the moment. We are spending money at the moment which we have not got. We are borrowing and we should not be doing that. I am prepared to be educated on this and I hope that the tax arrangements will be capable of funding many of those very desirable things in the programme.
There is no mention of the H-Block tragedy, of our hunger strikes, our colleagues who are there today and may not be there very long unless something is done urgently. I cannot accept this as being the full collective thinking of two parties. I cannot understand how they can really brush over that and have platitudes and cliches about reconciliation, something which we all desire. We cannot ignore the running sore which is there at the moment. I find that a grave fault in the programme.
The second fault I find relates to the economy, and it is linked with the commitments I spoke about earlier that I felt I got from the present Taoiseach. There are no real proposals in the Coalition document that will produce jobs on any sizeable scale. The proposed youth employment and training schemes do not seem very satisfactory: we will be spending more money in giving them further training but at the end of that they will join the dole queue. We must find work. I believe we know where the work is. We are not like other countries in Europe where people can excuse themselves by saying they are all in the same boat. They are not. They have more houses in Europe than they need. They have roads that will do them for the next 50 years. They have water and sewerage services. They have a declining population. We have a rising population, and a shortage of all those things. Our unemployed people are capable of doing things and we are spending almost as much money in keeping them in idleness as would put them to work. I think we are daft. Perhaps at the end of the day I will be the one to be seen to have been daft, but I do not think so.
They are the two major points at issue, apart from other odds and ends which will have to be hammered out here. They are the points which seem to me to stick out like sore thumbs. Because of them, if Deputy Haughey does not become Taoiseach I will not be prepared to support Deputy FitzGerald to preside over a programme which has those two major holes in it.
Question put.
The Dáil divided; Tá, 79; Níl, 83.
Tá
- Acheson, Carrie.
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Allen, Lorcan.
- Andrews, David.
- Andrews, Niall.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Barrett, Sylyester.
- Blaney, Neil T.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brennan, Paudge.
- Brennan, Seamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- (Wexford).
- Callanan, John.
- Calleary, Seán.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Colley, George.
- Collins, Gerard.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Joyce, Carey.
- Keegan, Seán.
- Kenneally, William.
- Killilea, Mark.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Lemass, Eileen.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Loughnane, William.
- Lyons, Denis.
- McCarthy, Seán.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- MacSharry, Ray.
- Meaney, Tom.
- Conaghan, Hugh.
- Connolly, Gerard.
- Coughlan, Clement.
- Cowen, Bernard.
- Crinion, Berndan.
- Crowley, Flor.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Faulkner, Pádraig.
- Filgate, Eddie.
- Fitzgerald, Gene.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom
- (Dublin South-Central.)
- Fitzsimons, Jim.
- Flynn, Padraig.
- Foley, Denis.
- French, Seán.
- Gallagher, Denis.
- Gallagher, Pat Cope.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Moore, Seán.
- Morley, P.J.
- Murphy, Ciarán P.
- Nolan, Tom.
- Noonan, Michael J.
- (Limerick West).
- O'Donoghue, Martin.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond.
- Power, Paddy.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Smith, Michael.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Walsh, Seán.
- Wilson, John P.
- Woods, Michael J.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Allen, Bernard.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Myra.
- Barry, Peter.
- Begley, Michael.
- Bermingham, Joseph.
- Birmingham, George.
- Boland, John.
- Browne, Noël.
- Burton, John.
- Burke, Dick.
- Burke, Liam.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- (Dublin North-West).
- Collins, Edward.
- Conlon, John F.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connor, John.
- Cooney, Patrick M.
- Corish, Brendan.
- Cosgrave, Liam T.
- Cosgrave, Michael J.
- Coveney, Hugh.
- Creed, Donal.
- Crotty, Keiran.
- Crowley, Frank.
- D'Arcy, Michael J.
- Deasy, Martin A.
- Desmond, Barry.
- Desmond, Eileen.
- Donnellan, John F.
- Dukes, Alan M.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- Enright, Thomas W.
- Farrelly, John V.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom.
- (Cavan-Monaghan).
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Oliver J.
- Fleming, Brian.
- Glenn, Alice.
- Governey, Desmond.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Harte, Patrick D.
- Hegarty, Paddy.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Keating, Michael.
- Kelly, John.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Enda.
- L'Estrange, Gerry.
- McCartin, John J.
- McMahon, Larry.
- Markey, Bernard.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Molony, David.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonon, Michael.
- (Limerick East).
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Brien, William.
- O'Donnell, Tom.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Leary, Michael.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- O'Toole, Paddy.
- Owen, Nora.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Ryan, John J.
- Ryan Richie.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sheehan, Patrick J.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Spring, Dick.
- Taylor, Madeleine.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Treacy, Seán.
- Tully, James.
- White, James.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Moore and Briscoe; Níl, Deputies L'Estrange and B. Desmond.
Question declared lost.
I am now putting the question: "That Dáil Éireann nominate Deputy Garret FitzGerald for appointment by the President to be Taoiseach".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 81; Níl, 78.
Tá
- Allen, Bernard.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Myra.
- Barry, Peter.
- Begley, Michael.
- Bermingham, Joseph.
- Birmingham, George.
- Boland, John.
- Bruton, John.
- Burke, Dick.
- Burke, Liam.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- (Dublin North-West).
- Collins, Edward.
- Conlon, John F.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connor, John.
- Cooney, Patrick M.
- Corish, Brendan.
- Cosgrave, Liam T.
- Cosgrave, Michael J.
- Coveney, Hugh.
- Creed, Donal.
- Crotty, Kieran.
- Crowley, Frank.
- D'Arcy, Michael J.
- Deasy, Martin A.
- Desmond, Barry.
- Desmond, Eileen.
- Donnellan, John F.
- Dukes, Alan M.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- Enright, Thomas W.
- Farrelly, John V.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom.
- (Cavan-Monaghan).
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Oliver J.
- Fleming, Brian.
- Glenn, Alice.
- Governey, Desmond.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Harte, Patrick D.
- Hegarty, Paddy.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Keating, Michael.
- Kelly, John.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Enda.
- L'Estrange, Gerry.
- McCartin, John J.
- McMahon, Larry.
- Markey, Bernard.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Molony, David.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael.
- (Limerick East).
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Brien, William.
- O'Donnell, Tom.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Leary, Michael.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- O'Toole, Paddy.
- Owen, Nora.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Ryan, John J.
- Ryan Richie.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sheehan, Patrick J.
- Spring, Dick.
- Taylor, Madeleine.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Treacy, Seán.
- Tully, James.
- White, James.
- Yates, Ivan.
Níl
- Acheson, Carrie.
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Allen, Lorcan.
- Andrews, David.
- Andrews, Niall.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Barrett, Sylvester.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brennan, Paudge.
- Brennan, Seamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Faulkner, Pádraig.
- Filgate, Eddie.
- Fitzgerald, Gene.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Fitzpatrick, Tom.
- (Dublin South-Central).
- Fitzsimons, Jim.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Foley, Denis.
- French, Seán.
- Gallagher, Dennis.
- Gallagher, Pat Cope.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Joyce, Carey.
- Keegan, Seán.
- Kenneally, William.
- Killilea, Mark.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Lemass, Eileen.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- (Wexford).
- Callanan, John.
- Calleary, Seán.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Colley, George.
- Collins, Gerard.
- Conaghan, Hugh.
- Connolly, Gerard.
- Coughlan, Clement.
- Cowen, Bernard.
- Crinion, Brendan.
- Crowley, Flor.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Loughnane, William.
- Lyons, Denis.
- McCarthy, Seán.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- MacSharry, Ray.
- Meaney, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Moore, Seán.
- Morley, P. J.
- Murphy, Ciarán P.
- Nolan, Tom.
- Noonan, Michael. J.
- (Limerick West).
- O'Donoghue, Martin.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond.
- Power, Paddy.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Smith, Michael.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Walsh, Seán.
- Wilson, John P.
- Woods, Michael J.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies L'Estrange and B. Desmond; Níl, Deputies Moore and Briscoe.
Question declared carried.
Ba mhaith liom fíorbhuíochas a chur in iúl don Dáil as ucht mé d'ainmniú mar Thaoiseach.
I do not propose to comment on the points made in this debate at this time although they are points to which I should ordinarly have liked to reply. I would like to say that I found the debate constructive and helpful and will certainly take note of a number of the points made.
I wish simply to say at this point that I am conscious of the very great honour being conferred on me and I want to thank the Dáil for nominating me to this high office, the leadership of a State which in 60 years has won repute worldwide which far transends its small size. I am also conscious of the many grave and urgent problems facing us not just in this State but in this island. I have no illusions about their magnitude and approach them with a sense of humility. I will try, as Taoiseach, to deal with them to the best of my ability in the interests of all the people of this island.
It is necessary that I should now go and inform the President of my nomination so that he may appoint me. I would accordingly suggest that the Dáil adjourn until 7.30 this evening.
I would like on behalf of myself and my party to congratulate Deputy FitzGerald on his election as Taoiseach and to convey to him my personal good wishes in undertaking the onerous responsibility of this high office. I want to assure him that it will be our intention to provide constructive opposition devoid of personal rancour or antagonism——
Deputies
Hear, hear.
——and to facilitate wherever necessary the passage of that which is essential in the national interest.
At this juncture I would like to announce that, in accordance with precedent, when the Dáil resumes at 7.30 p.m. Members on my left will take their seats on my right and Members on my right will take their seats on my left.
Sitting suspended at 5.05 p.m. and resumed at 7.30 p.m.