Vol. 329 No. 2
I move:
That leave be given by the Dáil to introduce the following Supplementary Estimates for the service of the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1981, namely:—
Votes Nos.:—
3 (Department of the Taoiseach),
12 (Office of the Attorney General),
22 (Agricultural Grants),
40 (Agriculture),
44 (Transport),
50 (Social Welfare),
52 (Energy).
This is a motion for leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates and to fix a day on which the Supplementary Estimates will be taken.
Today.
We cannot agree to that. I suggest tomorrow.
The Supplementary Estimates will be circulated immediately. It was understood that these Supplementary Estimates would be taken today. It is worth recalling that they arise in their entirely from decisions taken by the outgoing Government. We have decided to introduce them and as they are matters also with which the Opposition front bench at least will be very familiar, they are hardly subjects on which the House will wish to have very lenghty notice before considering. Indeed, the precise details of these Estimates would have been seen by the outgoing Government and I would prefer if we could deal with these today in order to have the maximum expedition of public business and also to ensure that funds which are necessary for certain very worthy purposes can be made available today rather than delayed unnecessarily by the failure of the House to agree to take them today. In view of the fact that they have already been approved by the outgoing Government who are fully familiar with their contents they should be dealt with today. However, I would stress that should any member of the outgoing Government who has forgotten the contents of the Estimate which he agreed to wish to ask further questions about the decision he took and the reasons he took it we will, of course, be delighted to provide that information. As to the decisions taken by the previous Government in this matter, we will answer any questions which members of the Opposition back benches may wish to ask about the decisions taken by the then Government.
It is a well-established tradition in this House that leave is asked to introduce the Supplementary Estimates and we are not prepared to take them before tomorrow.
In deference to the leader of the Opposition, if he is pressing the matter, I certainly have no wish to rush this matter through the House. As I have said they are decisions made by the Government led by the person who now wishes to delay the implementation of those decisions. It is a somewhat surprising procedure.
They are proposed by the Minister. We do not as yet know what is in the Supplementary Estimates.
I do, and I am telling the House what is in them. They are decisions taken by the previous Government and nothing else. However, as the leader of the Opposition is anxious to defer the implementation of these decisions of his, I will certainly agree to defer them until tomorrow.
Does the Minister see any urgency in Vote 22 and Vote 23 in relation to agricultural grants and agriculture?
It would be most regrettable even for the sake of one day if grants were to be delayed or if any further inconvenience were to be caused to farmers because such Supplementary Estimates could not be passed hastily and with all speed to assist the agricultural community which we are all extremely anxious to do. But now there may be a long delay caused by discussions which may not serve any useful purpose but may be the means of delaying important grants because the money will not be readily available. I would ask the Minister for Finance to exercise all prudence in having the Supplementary Estimates presented with the least possible delay.
I appeal to the Leader of the Opposition to facilitate the Government in the speedy passage of the Estimates having regard to the serious financial circumstances of those engaged in agriculture and particularly those who are awaiting the payment of agricultural grants. Both during the election campaign and since then I have been closely in touch with the farming community in regard to these problems. They have placed their confidence strongly in me. I am asking the Minister for Finance to use his good offices to ensure that whatever money he requires to facilitate the agricultural community, especially in relation to grants, will be made available without delay. The people concerned are depending on these moneys. They are in position now of not knowing where the next penny is coming from.
I concur with the concern expressed by Deputy Flanagan that these moneys should be made available immediately and it was for those reasons that I proposed to the House originally that we take the Estimates today. However, I regret that, having given my word to the Leader of the Opposition not to take the Estimates until tomorrow, I am not in a position to go back on that agreement. I would point out that it is merely Vote 22 which relates to agriculture. There is no Supplementary Estimate on Vote 23 and the grants in question relate to the rates support for farmers.
There can be no problem whatever caused for anyone by taking these Supplementary Estimates tomorrow. To some extent they arise from the budgetary provisions and no single individual anywhere will be in any way disadvantaged by our adhering to proper procedures in this House. We are just asking that financial business be dealt with here in a proper way and the normal and proper procedure for dealing with these matters is to ask leave to introduce a Supplementary Estimate, then to circulate it to Deputies so that they are aware of what they are voting on and then to take the Supplementary Estimate on the day for which it is ordered.
In view of the impassioned plea which Deputy Flanagan made earlier on behalf of Deputies I should hope that he would support me in what I am proposing, that is, that we adhere to proper financial procedures.
In relation to Vote 50, can the Minister indicate whether this Vote is being regarded as one of extreme urgency in so far as it relates to the weaker sections of our community—the sick, the unemployed, the widowed and all others who are depending on the financial strength of the Department of Social Welfare? For those who are in need of a meal, 24 hours is a long time to have to wait. If, as the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach have said, there is no change in the Supplementary Estimates to come before us now and those which were ready when the Leader of the Opposition was Taoiseach, why is Deputy Haughey so keen on this delay? He must know what is in these Supplementary Estimates. The members of his Cabinet had consultations with the secretaries of the various Departments in regard to them. In view of the urgency associated with payments to social welfare recipients, why can the Opposition not agree to take these Supplementary Estimates immediately? The people concerned are not in a position to get credit facilities in any shop. They are depending totally on social welfare for their next meal.
The agreement to take the Supplementary Estimates was altered at 12.15 p.m. today when the Opposition withdrew their agreement that the Supplementary Estimates be taken with this debate.
There was no such agreement on our part at any time.
However, the position is that I have agreed with the Leader of the Opposition not to take the Supplementary Estimates until tomorrow but in fairness I should say that the delay of one day will not present any serious problem. Since the Leader of the Opposition is anxious that there be a more open and extensive debate than what might perhaps have taken place today had we been able to go ahead with the Supplementary Estimates, I am happy to agree to his request that we leave them over until to-morrow.
I repeat that we did not at any time make any agreement that these Estimates, supplementary or otherwise, would be taken today. I do not know how this misunderstanding arose but it was not on our part. Deputy Flanagan should understand that this Supplementary Estimate, if we are correct in our assumption of what it covers, is simply to provide money for the increases that we announced in the budget. In other words, these increased rates are already in full payment and there is no question of anyone being injured or delayed in any way as a result of taking the Supplementary Estimates tomorrow.
In other words, people opposite paid out money that they had not got.
I have never heard of so much poverty in the country within the space of a week.
After all his years in this House, Deputy Flanagan should understand that any Department can spend up to a certain proportion of the previous year's Estimate until such time as the current Estimates are passed and that is what is happening here.
