Deputy Killilea has given notice of his intention to raise the subject matter of Question No. 9 on today's Order Paper.
Adjournment Debate. - Island Telephone Service.
I wish, Sir, to congratulate you on your appointment as Leas-Cheann Comhairle and wish you every success. I have already complimented the Minister on his appointment.
I have raised this matter because the Minister has not been given the reply to the question which was asked. It is not a reflection on him. Some weeks ago in my capacity as Minister of State at the Department of Posts and Telegraphs I made an order concerning this telephone kiosk as well as several others. I wish to clarify whether the orders made by me after due consideration will be put into effect.
Inishmacatreer is a small island community of about 20 houses. They have pier facilities and are linked by road to the mainland. It is a small island in the middle of Lough Corrib and is a place which should be provided with a telephone kiosk. During my term of office I received many requests for such facilities and I never hesitated in making an order for such a place.
The Minister has said he does not consider that a telephone kiosk is required because the necessary criteria have not been met. It is not a matter of criteria — it is a matter of courtesy, of policy, of necessity. Such places should be given priority in the provision of this facility. I have a proud record in the Department in that the first automatic exchange which I opened was in the Aran Islands. All parts of the country should be equally served by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.
I am not sure what the Minister will do about these orders. I have a note of them and I will insist on an answer in this House if there is any change. I do not say this in any threatening way but I intend to watch developments. I made an order for a postbox on Arranmore. It is an absolute necessity and I made my decision as a result of representations from all sides of the House. It is my hope that the Minister will back my decision. I did nothing in making those orders which would embarrass any Minister and the reasons for my decisions can be seen.
The Minister should state categorically whether my order stands or is to be revoked. I took particular pride in sanctioning a telephone kiosk for Inishmacatreer. I look forward to its installation and the continuation of the policy I followed in the Department. I gave a very reasonable service to every Deputy on every side. If a proposal did not meet the criteria laid down by the Department but there were extenuating circumstances, I made the order. I do not apologise to anyone for so doing, especially in regard to the provision of island facilities. I hope the Minister will stand over the order for the telephone kiosk in Inishmacatreer as well as all the other orders. They were made in the light of the human element and not for any political reason. Two of the orders relate to Arranmore in County Donegal and Inishmacatreer and there are 14 or 15 other orders, each of which was justified.
I want to establish whether the orders I made are to be revoked or not. The Minister has a difficult task and I hope that he will endorse decisions which we have made. I felt very proud when I went into that Department, but I felt even more so on the day I left it.
I must first echo the good wishes of the Deputy to you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, on your accession to that office and also express my good wishes to your colleague, the Ceann Comhairle. I have no doubt that your term of office will be free from undue controversy and this will be due to the high regard in which both of you are held in this House.
Deputy Killilea raises what is patently a very awkward matter for me in so far as he is asking me to give a categoric "yes" or "no" as to my attitude towards directions given by him. Obviously any Minister succeeding a colleague would want to uphold the directives given by his colleague and he would start from the base that such directives were properly given in accordance with normal procedure and practice. Certainly where that is the case I will be only too glad to uphold and insist that any directives given be confirmed and implemented.
There are certain criteria laid down in the Department which have been observed by successive Ministers for determining whether or not a telephone kiosk is to be provided in a particular area. I understand it is the practice that when a request comes from a Deputy or from the Minister or a Minister of another Department for the provision of a kiosk it is examined in accordance with relevant criteria. If it conforms to the criteria the Minister is so informed and the directive can then be implemented without difficulty. If it does not conform to the criteria the Minister is so informed and then a new situation arises. A further decision must be made by the Minister as to whether he wishes to pursue the directive, notwithstanding the fact that it may be in conflict with long-established criteria. These criteria are founded principally on reasons of economy, but social considerations have to be taken into account. Essentially they are reasons of economy and reasons of priority of demand. As Deputy Killilea knows better than most people here, there is a lot of pressure on the telephone service for new installations and an order of priorities must be established in order to ensure that where they are most urgently required telephones will be provided first. It can throw the whole planning process out of gear if this order of priorities is frequently or unduly interfered with. There may be occasional cases where for compassionate or other reasons it may have to be interfered with but by and large it is right that it should be observed. There is an order of priority with regard to telephone kiosks and the priority is determined by the criteria that have been established so that a person can know if a particular application meets the criteria. Consequently when an application that does not meet the criteria comes for consideration it is only right that the person making that application should be aware of it. As the Deputy has said, he gave a direction in a considerable number of cases——
Eighteen.
—— which is a considerable number of cases — where he wanted a telephone kiosk to be installed but I am sure the Deputy would not want his will to be enforced if that meant ignoring in that substantial number of cases long established criteria, and would necessitiate interfering with other areas that might qualify within the criteria so that they would be deprived of their telephone. I do not know if the Deputy was aware that in the case in question the normal criteria would not be satisfied. If the Deputy was unaware of that he might, because of his experience in the Department, have been aware that it was unlikely to satisfy the criteria. The examination of that directive and the others had not been completed in time to report to the Deputy so that he could confirm his directive or otherwise. It is not a clear and simple question of saying yes or no. In the normal way I am bound, on succeeding to the office, by the obligations of that office, to examine the criteria that had not come to the Deputy before then and to decide now that I am faced with the responsibility whether I will change the tentative decision in the light of the criteria furnished to me.
In regard to this case I sympathise with the Deputy because of its location. It is an island situation and I sympathise with people who by accident of geography or birth have to live in a less favourable environment than the rest of us take for behoves the community to give them little facilities that the rest of us take for granted. I understand that there may be a question about this being a popular fishing area where there are landing facilities availed of by visiting anglers. These are circumstances outside the normal criteria which might enable me to look at the matter again, perhaps with a more favourable mind.
Another alternative that the Deputy and I could discuss would be if the local authority might be prepared to subsidise a kiosk. Before we discard that option the Deputy and myself might talk to the local authority and the Deputy could consult his colleagues in Galway County Council to see if they would be prepared to come to the assistance of their countrymen in Inishmacatreer in what is essentially a social exercise. From his time in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs the Deputy knows that having regard to the demands on the Exechequer, they are primarily an economic Department who must apply economic criteria in implementing their programmes. The Deputy and I could have a look at this again.
On a point of information ——
Deputy Killilea may ask a question or two.
Sympathy towards people living in such an area is of very little use. The Minister should assess the criteria. I can assure the Minister that a telephone kiosk in Inishmacatreer would give more financial return to the Department in one year than would a telephone kiosk in a major city street which is being constantly vandalised. If the Minister wishes I can give him details of certain kiosks in the city which will prove my point that the criteria is a peculiar criteria. The people on the island of Inishmacatreer like the people on Arranmore are just as entitled to essential services as are people who do not appreciate the service either in this city or in the city of Galway.
To ask the county council is a total waste of time as they are not interested. We either make a decision to help those people or we do not. When an application for Inishmacatreer was refused I made the order. I want the Minister either to stand over that order or to revoke it. If the Minister revokes it it will not be my fault.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.45 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 8 July 1981.