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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 23 Jul 1981

Vol. 329 No. 7

Financial Resolutions, 1981. - Financial Resolution No. 9: General (Resumed):

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to Customs and Inland Revenue (including Excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Finance).

May I say while the Taoiseach is still in the House that it is well known that he gives in to pressure. This Taoiseach will change direction almost daily in pursuit of policy, giving in to one pressure or another. He reminds me of the hare at a coursing meeting—I am glad to say I have never attended one but I understand the hare changes direction at every stop. If I were to call the Taoiseach "Garret The Hare" I might be summing up the way he will be behaving as leader of this country.

During the recent election campaign the Taoiseach promised benefits which, according to our figures, would cost between £800 million and £1,000 million. While the Taoiseach denied these figures he never once stated what it would cost to implement those promises. At the same time he was saying that the financial situation was very bad and he would have to wait to see what he could do when he got into office.

Last night I referred to the Fine Gael advertisement which appeared in The Irish Times on Tuesday, 9 June, in which Fine Gael nailed the first lie. The first lie with a nail through it was “Huge increases on petrol, beer and spirits. Fine Gael will strictly control the price of these items”. That was the first lie, but who was lying? One of the first actions of this Government was to hit these items.

There is no doubt that the people will see through the integrity of the promises of this Taoiseach. He was very fond of using the word "integrity" when in opposition. The way the nation's finances have been criticised must have undermined foreign investment. Later in the year, possibly around September or October, it would be interesting to find out how many projects which were before the IDA had been held up as a result of these criticisms.

I heard on the radio this morning that through the IDA there are 11 electronic industries starting here. Everybody knows that over the last four years foreign investment in the electronics industry has been enormous and many others industries are also affected. It would be interesting to know whether people who had been in contact with the IDA have held up their plans due to the lack of confidence in the country expressed by the Taoiseach.

Regarding public service staffing, we are all aware of the great increase in our population which resulted in the necessity for 18 extra Deputies in this House. We will need more teachers and more schools to cater for our young people and considerable increases will be necessary in certain sectors of the public service. We are still waiting to hear whether the Government intend to proceed with the recruitment of 2,000 extra garda which Fianna Fáil had given a commitment to recruit. In the announcement of cut-backs the Government have not been specific. They speak of vacancies occurring in the public service through natural wastage, but in reality this means a cut-back because the increasing needs of our growing population must be catered for by the public service.

The behaviour of some of the Independent Members of this House leaves a lot to be desired. From the point of view of those who elected them, they are trying to have it both ways. The Cork Examiner of Tuesday, 21 July carried an article on Deputies Sherlock and Kemmy. Regarding Deputy Sherlock it stated as follows:

The mini-budget to be introduced today has been termed a "class budget" by Mr. Joe Sherlock, T.D., of Sinn Fein, The Workers' Party.

Already, he said, the policies behind the budget had been condemned by the ICTU and the trade union movement. His party was opposed to these anti-working class measures in the Dáil, the factory and their affect on working-class people.

The mini-budget was about taking money from some people and not taking it from others. The working class would pay the bulk of the money the Coalition now wanted. Once again, the accumulators of wealth in our society would get off lightly.

Mr. Sherlock said that media speculation had failed to pin point the only fair way of raising the money needed —and that was to tax the wealth, property and idle agricultural land. The Labour Party's silence on the issue of direct versus indirect taxation was a scandal.

There were alternatives to taxing the working class. These were a direct tax system with employers, farmers, and self-employed being taxed at the same rate as PAYE workers, and with taxes on wealth and property.

Deputy Sherlock is quite right.

Fianna Fáil ran away from the implementation of such policies.

He told his supporters that he was against the Government's proposals but nevertheless he supported them by abstaining. Deputy Sherlock is much more an Independent than Deputy Kemmy, who makes no apology for walking through the lobby in support of the Government.

If Deputy Briscoe is all that Fianna Fáil can provide to speak on this issue, is it any wonder that people would not vote for Fianna Fáil?

Deputy Briscoe to continue without interruption.

I regard Deputy Kemmy as a member of the Labour Party and I predict that before the end of this Dáil he will formally join that party.

The Deputy is in the business of fortune telling.

I have put my prediction on record.

One of the points made by the leader of Fianna Fáil during the election campaign in regard to the payment of £9.60 to the wives of taxpayers was that this would be a very clumsy scheme to administer. I understand that wives will qualify for this payment only if they opt for it. I see the Taoiseach shaking his head. Am I then to understand that it will be compulsory?

The option is the other way.

Then the husband opts to give it to the wife.

No, the option is the other way.

If the wife opts for this £9.60——

The Deputy should have made himself aware of the facts before standing up to speak.

I understood that the wife had to opt for this £9.60 but the Taoiseach shook his head to indicate that this was not so. When I said that if the husband opted for it——

The Deputy is totally confused. The money is payable unless the wife opts not to take it. If the Deputy had read anything about our proposals he would know this. Obviously he has not read them. He has already stated that we have not given costings, but the costings are set out in full. I will send him a copy of the proposals.

When I asked one of the Ministers of State about costings he was not able to answer. I will be interested to compare projected costings with actual costings if and when the promises are implemented. The average two-monthly electricity bill will be increased by between £16 and £24 for most families. The average family now receive a bill of between £60 and £80 every two months and many bills are much higher than that.

Fianna Fáil greatly improved the equity of the taxation system. We reduced income tax by £500 million in the past three years and abolished residential rates and motor taxation. We provided a special PAYE allowance of £600 for 750,000 PAYE tax payers and we intended to retain this. These new charges, the health charges, the levy, plus the 3.75 increase, plus VAT will bring in £340 million from the PAYE sector as against £17.9 million from the self-employed and £15.2 million from the farmers. The PAYE sector will have to pay most of the increases. A person earning about £5,000 will have to pay an extra £11 per week, a person on £10,000 will pay an extra £14.80 per week and so on. There is no question but that this is a deflationary budget which will increase unemployment and will reduce incentives and growth. The Taoiseach will further aggravate matters. As his policies fail to take hold he will switch from one track to another. I have seen the Taoiseach at close quarters over a number of years and he will not be able to take the pressures.

The supposed reduction of £116 million in the budget deficit has been bought at a high price. We were well on the way towards having a 2 to 2½ per cent growth rate this year but this will be stopped. We will have stagnation in the first six months of Coalition Government. I understand that normally half year measures can be and are taken by various Departments in holding up further expenditure but the kind of tax measures introduced have far exceeded what is necessary. It does not matter what we say here, ultimately what counts is how these measures will affect people. Governments are not elected they are rejected. Unfortunately there will be a lot of suffering before this Government are rejected.

As winter approaches, I am deeply concerned about the high cost of heating and I appeal to the Taoiseach to have a look at the fuel voucher system in order to help the people at the lower end of the scale. We should operate some sort of a means test for old people living alone. They need more heat than younger people and even on a day like this old people are using their fires. These people should be aided as heating is necessary to sustain life.

We may score political points off each other here but the important things are employment prospects and how lives are affected. So that young people will not become completely disillusioned with the democratic process we have a responsibility to provide job opportunities for them. Initially we may have to borrow in excess of our means to procure employment and to build up industries and we should do so. Years ago we could educate our young people for export and they could find jobs in other countries. That is no longer the case as other countries have their own problems and highly educated young people cannot find jobs abroad.

I hope that the Taoiseach, through the Minister for Justice, will say whether or not the former Minister's announcement of May of this year in relation to an extra 2,000 gardaí will be implemented and these gardaí recruited. Judging by the number of gardaí I see outside of Leinster House the Taoiseach believes in the security of the State and I applaud him for that. It is the basic right of any citizen to walk the streets in freedom without fear of attack.

Other speakers have trotted out the usual comments about the increases in the price of beer and spirits but the aspect of the budget with which I am unhappy is the increase from 40 per cent to 50 per cent in the duty on motor vehicles. Quite a number of people engaged in the car assembly industry and in the servicing of vehicles will be affected. The extra cost for spare parts and so on will make people reluctant to have their cars serviced regularly and they will try to cut down on servicing. For instance, people might use tyres longer than they should because of the cost factor so there is a danger not only to life and limb but to employment in that sector. When one looks at our streets today jammed with cars, on roads inadequate to carry them, one realises the massive employment content of the car industry, far beyond what it might appear on the face of it. The growth of little backstreet garages is enormous, garages where one finds two or three mechanics working. But when one totals up all these little back street garages and the people employed in them one realises there is a vast number. I would estimate that they would amount to thousands.

We feel very strongly about social welfare benefits. We have never apologised for increasing those benefits even when people accused us of increasing them beyond our ability to pay for them. We make no apology for making the lives of the elderly and the less well off in our community somewhat easier. That is our philosophy and has always been our policy. We have stated in this House many times that the old age pensioners and social welfare recipients have always done better under Fianna Fáil. What we say now is, at a minimum, please preserve their standards of living because, as a result of this budget their standard of living will fall substantially. We say please keep it at least on a level with inflation.

We await with interest details of the cutback in investment in semi-State bodies to the tune of £135 million. I understand that investment is to be held up. Perhaps the Minister for Finance could tell us something about that. I see the Minister for Finance putting his hand to his head.

It was the unintended emission that came from the Deputy's back pocket that caused me to put my hand to my head rather than the quality of his speech.

Perhaps the Minister for Finance will tell us also when the 1 per cent employment levy is to be imposed, for example, whether it will be imposed this year. He says there will not be much of an income yield from it in 1981 so I would assume he plans imposing it this year. Then there is the 2½ per cent health contribution. I do not know whether he announced when that would be levied. I know he said something about introducing legislation after the summer so I would imagine that that would be in October or November. However, it is interesting to note that if these taxes, which they are, are levied the other famous taxes which "the socialists" on the other benches were seeking will have to wait until next April. There are many people dependent on this State to keep the wheels turning in education and employment. In his budget speech the Minister said a fraud was being committed on our young people by incurring debt that would have to be repaid by workers in the future. At present we have a very high number of dependents and it must be remembered that they need housing as well as the education and employment about which I have spoken.

Deficit financing is needed now, particularly during the recession. I do not think young people will thank this Government if, as a result of their financial measures, they are denied employment opportunities simply because the Government were unwilling to borrow the necessary money. I do not think any young person would resent repaying the State by tax in the years ahead when he is working for having given him that education and employment opportunity. Indeed, in communist countries they will not allow people out of the country once they have got their education at the expense of the State because they recoup their investment directly in that way. I do not think there is any harm at all in borrowing money to secure employment opportunities for young people in the future. Therefore, in certain circumstances, we have said that one can borrow to work one's way through a recession. Those are the ABCs of economics many people understand and the practicalities are evident.

Within a very short period of time — I mean within 18 months — the practical policies pursued by the Fianna Fáil Government just gone out of office will be evident for the people to see. Subsequently at the next general election they will make their decision and we shall abide by it.

We are in a crisis situation and anyone who pretends we are not or seeks to evade the fact betrays those who gave them their mandate to sit in this House.

This Government are determined to resolve that crisis. For crisis it is and it is no less. It must be faced with resolution and with the courage required to overcome it. This resolution must include the determination to sweep away make-believe, pretence and evasion. The crisis will go away only if we drive it away. As Taoiseach I am placing confidence in the people. I am placing confidence too in the people's elected representatives to do their duty on the people's behalf.

The issues before us should be faced and discussed without party political rancour and we have endeavoured, both in my broadcast and in the Minister's budget speech, to do this — to an extent that has indeed evoked some surprise from people who had expected us to deploy on these occasions the very live political ammunition available to us. We understand that the vast majority of people are fair-minded, sensible people who look to us for honest analysis and action in respect of our economic and social problems, and not for political point-scoring however attractive that may be to us within the walls of this Chamber.

We must put the simple, stark facts before the people. They are unpleasant and unpopular facts but they must be faced. There is no political advantage to any Government in coming to the House with unpopular measures. There is no political profit for the Government in what they are doing. We have proposed this supplementary budget only because we are satisfied that our economy is in a crisis and that the urgent corrective measures it contains are necessary, and we have staked the life of this Government, within three weeks of its formation on this conviction.

Today I am not going to speak about the question of responsibility for the position we are now in. I will leave the history books to be written some time in the future by the economic historians. This is no time, in my view, for indulging in the luxury of irrelevant party political debate about who did what or when or what they should have done. I know there are people on the benches opposite who share the Government's view of the seriousness of our situation. There are people outside this House who want to destroy this House. If parliamentary democracy here fails to respond to its challenges and solve its problems it will fail here as it has failed elsewhere. Nature abhors a vacuum and there are forces here very ready and willing to fill that vacuum, as we all know. And if we fail to act we will be permitting that to happen and those who have persistently plotted to subjugate to their wills the free institutions of this State will finally have had their way. The truth is — and we must all face it on all sides of this House — that Governments of all parties have been losing credibility. That credibility must be built up again. We can pass our resolutions and enact our legislation here but we cannot get things right unless we in this House have the support of the people. We cannot get to where we all want to go unless the people understand the measures necessary to get there. If we are to restore credibility we must begin by stating the position as we see it, the truth as we see it.

In 1970 after nearly 50 years of self-government our national debt was £1,000 million — as against £8,000 million by the end of last year. During that first 50 years we — and in using "we" in what I am about to say I am using it in relation to the parties on both sides of this House, to our democratic system as a whole — during those first 50 years we, together, had established the State, come through a civil war, through the depression of the thirties, and the Economic War; we had survived an international war; we had built from the ground up our industry, so that by 1969 our industrial exports exceeded our agricultural exports; we had opened up our economy to free trade with the United Kingdom; we had maintained our parity with sterling; we had moved towards the elimination of emigration, our current deficit had been kept at zero; our balance of payments with the world was in order. We had brought our international credit to the first rank, where it could withstand questions from any source. All of this was done over 50 years at an average annual borrowing rate at home and abroad of about £20 million.

Between 1970 and 1980, over a mere ten years compared to the previous 50, we—again I make no distinction of parties—multiplied that debt eightfold so that at the end of 1980 it stood at £8,000 million. The average annual borrowing of £20 million of the first 50 years had increased in these ten years to an annual average figure of £700 million, or by a multiplier of 35, a figure far transcending the relative inflation rates of these two periods.

More than that. During that first 50 years we, the democratic parties who alternated in Government in this House kept our foreign national debt down to a moderate figure. In 1974 such foreign debt was £312 million. At the end of 1980 it was more than seven times greater and the gross foreign debt was over £2,000 million. This year even after the budget measures it will be over £3,000 million and we will have added to our foreign debt an amount three times the amount we borrowed abroad over the first 50 years. The annual cost of servicing the foreign debt is now equal to the entire official foreign debt in 1974, seven years ago.

How is this cost borne? Who pays for it? It must be paid for by the Government out of taxes. Resources which otherwise would be available to the taxpayer for investment or expenditure or to the Government for improved services have to be transferred abroad; by the end of this year almost one-ninth of our taxes will be going straight to foreign bankers who pay no taxes into our Exchequer in return.

We are in a crisis situation. Our excess Government expenditure is now flowing over into excess national expenditure on goods and services abroad on a massive scale as an estimated deficit of £1,500 million on our balance of payments for this year indicates. As Senator Whitaker has pointed out in a recent speech, even allowing for the productive use of some of the extra resources being imported in excess of the value of our exports "we are living about 10 per cent beyond our means".

This country needs development and needs growth. In no other way can we provide for the future of our young people. It is equally evident that out of our own domestic savings we cannot generate the growth we need. We can tolerate—indeed we require for finance—moderate deficits in our balance of payments, something perhaps of the order of £300 to £400 million at present values. The difference between such figures and what we are experiencing at the moment is a measure of the present excess. As Senator Whitaker said, we are indeed living about 10 per cent beyond our means and we must all ponder on the significance of this judgement. That 10 per cent has to be eliminated and our consumption and production brought more nearly into balance. The fault must be corrected where the fault began—in the Government's own finances, the imbalance in which is the root cause of this external over-spending. The current deficit in the public figures must go—in a planned way over a four-year period. Inexorably, reality must be brought home to all our people who have been carefully sheltered from the truth for so long. All whose duty it is to know the facts must do the further duty of making the rest of our people aware of them. That duty falls to all of us, the Opposition as well as the Government. We have to do this in a calm and firm way and in the national interest with as little political point-scoring as possible.

One of these facts which has to be brought home is that our incomes have been rising much faster than in other countries with whom we compete in producing goods and services. As a result in Ireland unit wage costs in manufacturing industry have risen by 74 per cent between 1975 and 1980 compared with 13 per cent in Germany, 30 per cent in the Netherlands, 37 per cent in Belgium and 41 per cent in Denmark. There is no need for me to spell out that we are pricing ourselves out of our markets with consequent loss of jobs which in the past year has been on a massive scale. This reality has to be faced, by all who have any responsibility for determining income levels.

Our population is rising, with 73,000 births each year exceeding the number of deaths by almost two-and-a-half times. With that increase there is an evident need to provide for these new citizens. We are not facing that duty. In failing to do so, we betray them—the children of the nation.

At the same time, the terms of our international trade are worsening and are likely to continue worsening; that is to say we are having to pay more in exports each year for the imports we need. This has been more than absorbing the limited increase in the volume of our domestic output, leaving us with a net reduction in real purchasing power. Even if we were to accept no increase whatever in our real disposable incomes per head, namely our living standards, and so far there is no sign of this being accepted, we would need more production, more growth, to meet the needs of our increased population and to cover the increased cost of imports relative to exports.

For some time past we have been maintaining our external reserves only by borrowing to replace these reserves as we have used them up—at heavy cost, as we try to keep the show on the road by borrowing billions abroad. Without decisive action the show will not remain on the road much longer. Without action the performance would soon be ended and the performers would lose their jobs. It is here in this House we must take this decisive action while we begin to put things right.

Something has been made of our growth rate being 2 per cent at a time when it is less elsewhere. This is true in itself but the Central Bank today suggests a slightly lower figure. I still think it will be about 2 per cent but if our present borrowing was used productively this growth should not be 2 per cent but 5 per cent to 6 per cent, on any normal return on investment at national level, comparing ourselves with countries nearby. This contrast between what is and what should be in relation to the return on national investment is a striking measure of our failures, perhaps in many ways the most striking and points to one of the areas we must tackle, securing that our national investment, above all our public investment, yields adequate return to us.

A 2 per cent growth rate is not only inadequate to meet our population growth of 1½ per cent per annum. It is even less adequate to meet the need for increased employment — a need which in Ireland is currently three times the Community average. For in addition to our population increase, more young people are entering the employment market, more married women are seeking employment, and emigration has stopped. Recession in other countries has been a factor in this and has indeed with other factors led to net immigration. The outflow from the education sector into the labour force is now in excess of 50,000 per annum. Even allowing for vacancies occurring through death and retirement, in order to provide viable jobs for these young people, we need policies yielding growth several times higher than that being achieved at present. The kind of growth we ought to be getting with the level of national investment presently undertaken but are not getting. In fact our real growth, taking into account the worsening of trading conditions — terms of trade — of 1.8 per cent a year over the years 1973-80 gave a per capita growth rate of .3 per cent. You might reasonably say that during this period we had stagnation hidden and camouflaged by foreign monetary borrowings. The borrowed money went down the drain through holes in the pockets of the people. We have had mounting debts abroad; stagnation, conflict and discontent at home. Can anyone doubt there is a crisis, the need for recognising a national emergency?

At this stage I should like to refer to the comments made by international agencies on the state of our finances and our economy. The OECD in their July 1981 Economic Outlook made it clear that where public sector deficits are persistently high, resolute measures are called for to curtail such deficits.

This budget has balanced the need to reduce a public sector deficit that was clearly persistently high with the need to avoid reducing it too quickly and, thereby, risking the danger of a self-defeating rise in unemployment.

While talking about OECD views on policy action I must mention the OECD attitude to raising the growth potential of the economy and reducing unemployment. They state emphatically that "boosting investment in physical and human capital must be the key objective of economic policy in most countries to assure both the more vigorous expansion of productive potential and the creation of adequate new employment opportunities". They recognise the difficulties of achieving such an expansion in current circumstances of relatively weak demand growth and limited pressure on existing productive capacity.

They recommend as positive steps, changes in the relative price of energy to enterprises, a restructuring of fiscal systems to aid investment by firms, and measures to improve the quality of training, and responsiveness of labour markets. Translated to Irish conditions this budget responds to these three requirements. It has reduced the price of energy by the cut in fuel oil tax to manufacturing industry, it has shown that restructuring of the tax system will take place as quickly as possible, especially for the manufacturing and tourism industries and has shown the Government commitment to providing employment and training for young people through the establishment of the Youth Employment Agency and the funding of its effects work on an enormously expanded scale by additional tax. These show the Government's concern to increase investment and employment by positive, innovative, action in conditions where our room for manoeuvre is extremely limited.

The EEC Commission in their report to the last European Council singled out for special mention the particular risks that "follow from the failure so far of several Member States to progress with urgently required public finance and income stabilisation measures". In a related section of the report the countries are identified by name and include ourselves. They stated that "these failures weaken the cohesion of the European Monetary System" and none of us is so naive as not to know what those words signify. They recommended "to these countries accelerated programmes of economic adjustment".

The message for Ireland is clear. The EEC has seen our public finances as being out of control. They have seen wage increases here as being out of line with those of our EMS partners and have scarcely disguised their recognition of the possibility of a devaluation of the Irish pound if corrective action were not taken.

The Government would have been irresponsible had they not responded to this advice. The budget represents the first step. Its essential objective of bringing control into our public finances will be clear to our European partners and to international financial markets. We have set a firm basis for a solid economic adjustment that will preserve our international financial standing. We must, however, recognise that while the measures taken will be seen as a step towards fiscal control we must now tackle urgently the problem of income stabilisation. I will return later in my speech to this critical subject of incomes increases.

The advice I have quoted from OECD and EEC is supplemented by that which was received from our own National Economic and Social Council.

In the NESC Report, "Economic and Social Policy 1980-1983; Aims and Recommendations", the council stressed that it is not possible for the time being to maintain the rate of improvement in living standards that has been achieved in recent years. They also stated that there must be an equitable sharing of the burden of this economic setback until the recession eases and the economy improves. They recommended specifically that priority should be given to safeguarding and improving economic competitiveness; that progressively more of Government expenditure should be financed from current revenue with a view to elimination over a fixed period of the current budget deficit and that the current balance of payments deficit should be reduced to a supportable level. In reviewing particular policy possibilities in relation to these aims, the council recommended that the growth in real incomes per person employed should reflect more closely the growth in output per person. I cite this report as indicating a broad support for the view which the Government have put forward as to the necessity to bring the public finances into order.

Let me turn now to the strategic objectives of this budget. But first, I want to clarify once and for all one matter that has come up in this debate.

The allegation has been made repeatedly—one morning paper reports it as having been made ten times by the Leader of the Opposition—that this is a monetarist budget. Nothing could be further from the truth. As those who have used the term must know the central tenet of monetarism is that the way to reduce inflation is through control of the money supply and that fiscal policy should be geared to that end. This budget is not geared to the production of a particular money supply figure and this Government rejects the monetarist approach to the reduction of inflation. Indeed the approach as set out in our programme, with its emphasis on price norms and the voluntary co-operation of the social partners in arriving at moderate pay increases, is profoundly non-monetarist; I could even say anti-monetarist. It is, and always has been, accepted by all economic schools, including the Keynesian, that when the balance of payments deficit and the current budget deficit become excessive, corrective fiscal action is appropriate. That is what this budget has done. The principal objective of this budget is to bring the public finances under control.

That they are out of control is clear from the fact that a planned £515 million current budget deficit became a potential £950 million deficit, the figure presented to us when we came into office; that potential capital spending would increase by £240 million over planned expenditure; and that the planned Exchequer borrowing requirement would rise from 13 per cent of the last budget to an actual 20 per cent. These figures speak for themselves, particularly when we realise that these excesses on the planned figures emerged in the five months between the last budget and the change of Government.

I do not understand why the Opposition should oppose what we are now doing to bring the public finances under control. We are essentially engaged in bringing expenditure back towards the course they originally planned—we cannot go all the way back because of the deflationary effect—as appropriate for our current economic and social circumstances. I have no doubt that if they were in Government—and a number of Opposition Deputies have already said this —they would have had to take measures to bring order and control to expenditure programmes which were clearly exceeding the limits they had originally decided were the limits we could sensibly and safely afford. I would emphasise that it is this Government's view that even if these limits had been adhered to the country could not have sensibly and safely afforded them.

Our economic approach is not a deflationary, monetarist one. Under our proposals, the current budget deficit will still exceed by nearly £300 million the deficit our predecessors fixed only six months ago. When the current deficit of £515 million was fixed in the January budget it was stated to be part of a policy to reduce the deficit annually until it is finally eliminated. There is, therefore, on the record no difference in principle between the Government and the Opposition on the undesirability of a large and increasing current budget deficit.

We are, therefore, doing what the Opposition, when in Government, wished to do and stated they wanted to do in the best interests of the economy. They stressed six months ago that it was important that the borrowing requirement for capital productive purposes should not be eaten into by excesses on the budget limits set for current expenditure.

We have acted to restrain the uncontrolled growth in the current deficit. We have not cut it back recklessly and ruthlessly but have reduced it carefully and selectively by some £160 million of potential expenditure. On any objective economic analysis—including the analysis made by the Opposition in their own January budget—the deficit should be reduced to nearer the original planned figure of £515 million. The Opposition might have criticised us for not going far enough in bringing things back to what they said was proper six months ago, but the Government's approach has been to balance the need for a reduction in the current deficit with the need to maintain employment and essential services.

We think we have got the balance about right, despite some criticism from economists that we should have gone further. The reduction in the potential deficit this year and the measures we are introducing to bring greater control over future expenditure will enable us to bring about the steady curtailment and eventual elimination of the current budget deficit which all Deputies over the years, in Government and Opposition, have agreed is essential for the fastest possible rate of economic and social development.

Let me turn now to capital expenditure. Here again we have not adopted a deflationary stance. In fact, we are proposing to spend some £64 million more than was planned six months ago under the January budget. That budget provided for what was described as an unprecedented investment expenditure representing an increase of 36 per cent on the 1980 level. I think everyone realised that in undertaking an investment programme of that size and the borrowing it entailed we were moving close to the limits of what we could financially and physically undertake in a single year. We have now left that investment programme £64 million above the level proposed in the January Budget.

I want to emphasise, therefore, that we are not merely spending as much as that proposed to be spent on the original investment programme of our predecessors but are adding certain essential items to it. In particular we are adding another £30 million to local authority housing and I am sure this is an addition which every Deputy will agree with. I have heard no dissent to this point. In examining the capital budget, we discovered that inadequate provision had been made to maintain the level of local authority housing which was falling sharply and we have acted promptly and decisively to remedy that omission which could be so damaging economically and socially.

The overall strategy of the budget, therefore, has been to lay the foundations of greater economic and social growth by bringing wasteful Government expenditure trends under control and by redirecting available resources into productive investment and the creation of permanent employment and earnings.

We have struck a balance in our expenditure measures which ensures that the forward momentum of the economy will be ensured and given a sounder basis. In striking this balance we have held to what is still a dangerously high level for the Exchequer borrowing requirement. The Exchequer will still have to borrow this year 16½ per cent of GNP, which is the highest borrowing requirement it has ever undertaken. This dangerously high level of borrowing is acceptable only because it is a substantial reduction on the 20 per cent of GNP we were faced with before the measures taken in this budget. It is as substantial a reduction as can be tolerated without risking deflationary effects that would run counter to our growth policy.

No permanent and sustained economic growth was possible when we were faced with the crisis in the public finances and in the mounting external deficit which threatened the stability and solvency of our economy. The order we have now started to impose on the public finances for the remainder of this year will enable us in 1982 to redirect our limited resources further into the expansion of our economic capacity and employment.

Already the measures we have taken will have beneficial effects on employment. The additional capital expenditure we have authorised, and in particular the additional £30 million for local authority housing, will give increased employment, where employment was disappearing under the previous Government. The 50 per cent relief for manufacturing industry of the excise duty on industrial fuel oil will reduce annual manufacturing costs by £6 million. This, taken with the measures we will introduce to reduce the PRSI contributions by the manufacturing and tourist industries by £28 million, will start the process of making these industries more competitive — the sure and only basis for increased output and employment.

We will also establish the Youth Employment Agency through necessary legislation which will be introduced at the outset of the next session of the Dáil. Work has already begun on this. This is another step in our concerted attack on unemployment, particularly unemployment among the young. For this Government employment is the primary objective of economic policy and the measures taken in this budget and the other measures to be taken under the Government's programme form a comprehensive and coherent programme to attain that objective.

The budget also provides increased incentives and aid for the farming sector. There has been an exceptional squeeze on farm incomes over the past two to three years which has shaken the confidence of many farmers in the future of their industry. In the two-year period up to the end of 1980 farm incomes fell in real terms by some 40 per cent as farmers were caught between the moderate price increases agreed in Brussels — and even negligible price increases — and escalating input costs caused by the inflation which was allowed to become rampant in our economy.

The Government have given priority to the restoration of the confidence of farmers in their industry. The Minister for Agriculture has this week secured the agreement of the EEC Council of Ministers for an aid programme of over £65 million for Irish farmers, covering interest rebates for development farmers and an extended drainage programme in the west. The budget also provides that farmers will be shielded from the increase in the 10 per cent VAT rate by raising the VAT refund for farmers to 1.5 per cent and by reducing the effective VAT rate on agricultural contractor charges to 3 per cent. Additional funding for the Farm Modernisation Scheme is also being provided, as well as for the new grant scheme.

These are the initial steps in the Government's programme for agriculture. We will be moving at the earliest possible stage to implement the other elements of the programme. The Government are determined to provide the conditions in which our most important industry can achieve increased production and prosperity.

I want to turn now to a critical element in any Government's approach to economic management, the question of sustainable incomes increases. This budget has been criticised as leading to a higher rate of inflation and thereby jeopardizing the prospects for future reasonable pay settlements. Now is not the time to dwell in detail on future pay talks, but I believe it is essential for me to spell out clearly the Government's view of the interaction between the impact of this budget on inflation and the scale of future pay increases. I have stressed the limited room for manoeuvre available to the Government in increasing revenue and this has undoubtedly led to a higher impact on prices than might otherwise have been possible or desirable. More important is the Government's view of where they will go from here in reducing the rate of inflation, in achieving greater equity in the tax system and in securing an acceptable rate of pay increases.

The Government's joint programme spelled out the approach to our second major task of reducing inflation and this approach was reiterated by the Minister for Finance in his budget speech remarks on incomes policy. I want to underline here the reality, which few people can now doubt, that the biggest and most permanent reduction in unemployment is through a reduction in our inflation rate to EEC levels as quickly as possible.

This reduction in inflation involves two elements: greater equity in the tax system to bring about a distribution of income that is not only fair but is seen clearly by all our people to be so, and a process of bringing realism into pay negotiations such that we concentrate not on a linking of wages to prices now, which simply leads to a spiralling inflation as has been proved over and over, but on a view of the rate of inflation that will exist when the pay increases to be negotiated are actually coming into pay packets.

Turning first to tax equity, I want to reiterate that the direct tax improvements promised by this Government will be made at the earliest possible date, namely, with effect from the start of the next tax year in April. I also want to make it clear that I intend to ensure that the other measures such as capital taxation mentioned by the Minister will be introduced by this Government as soon as the complex provisions to do so equitably can be framed. I believe very firmly that discussions on pay must take place in a climate where both workers and employers accept that the Government are undertaking a restructuring of the tax system that is acceptable to both sides and I intend to see that this will be the case.

The pay negotiations I speak about must take place in a new and different climate of expectations. If we look back, money income per employee in the non-agricultural sector of the economy in the 1973-80 period rose by almost 18 per cent a year as compared to the per capita growth figure of real purchasing power per head of 0.3 per cent. We simply cannot sustain the enormous disparity between these developments in output and in incomes. Essentially this disparity has stemmed from a level of expectations fuelled both by a false conception of the real rate of growth that was taking place and a false belief that we can compensate ourselves for externally-generated price increases.

Another dimension of expectations is the link between actual or past inflation and future pay increases. This does not make sense either for the country or, more important, for prospects of creating new jobs or preserving existing jobs.

This budget, then, is the first of the Government measures to set an economy on its feet again, back to a growth rate than can provide employment for those who seek it. There will be other measures and each will have its cost. The need for bearing that cost in the national interest will have to be widely understood by the nation if in the end the national aim is to be achieved. Without the nation's support, no Government can achieve their aim.

I do not ask for political quarter nor do I offer political quarter and I do not propose to reduce the political heat. I ask for a redirection of that heat to the usefulness, the timing, the appropriateness of measures or to the absence of such measures. I am sure our debates will remain robust and this is as it should be. Robust and relevant debate which does not hark back unnecessarily to the past—and we have endeavoured to set some examples in that—should serve to improve our decisions and to strengthen the significance of this Dáil, and the significance, standing and credibility of the public representives in the Dáil. At its best politics is a noble profession of service and we must seek to the best of our ability, without lessening the understandable sense of loyalty to our respective traditions which animate us, together to inspire our people to increase their commitment of service through our free institutions.

I cannot feel there is any real disagreement among the parties forming this Government, Fianna Fáil or the Independent Members present in the House as to our aim to achieve in this State a just and free society in which the full human potentialities of all can be fully realised, the dignity of the individual recognised and the concern and care of the majority institutionally mustered and encouraged by just laws to supply the needs of the disadvantaged minority among us. Such a society sould be a true community and might rationally be expected to recognise the claims of the State on behalf of the people upon it as a necessary part of the whole structure of justice. Such a society was what our fathers worked and fought for—and which we have not yet got—and we must not falter in continuing the pursuit of their aim. If we move towards its attainment we honour not merely their memories; we commit ourselves and this nation afresh to the values to which they committed their lives.

Deputy Browne.

Surely it is the turn of Fianna Fáil to speak?

Pending agreement between the Whips, I think there is an onus on the Chair to ensure that Independent Deputies get an opportunity to participate in the debate.

We have got 78 Deputies, several more than Fine Gael. I suggest to you that the Government yield time for the Independents.

The time allocations for this debate were agreed between the Government and Opposition. You left out the Independents. I am now calling on Deputy Browne.

I am standing by the agreement made with the Fine Gael and Labour Whips. If this is to be thrown aside we will have to examine the whole future of the Whip system.

I requested that the Whips meet to reach some amicable arrangement. You did not do so. I am calling on Deputy Browne.

The Whips have met.

They met this morning.

That was to discuss another matter altogether.

We are taking up a lot of time. I have called on Deputy Browne.

I accept your ruling under protest. We will have to be given some compensation later in the day for it.

We will sit until midnight if they wish.

Listening to the Taoiseach's references just now to the Dáil, Parliament and parliamentary democracy, it was borne in on me that he appeared to have missed altogether the frightening significance of the election we have just fought. I will simply give my reasons for not supporting either side in this very important debate. It is not very important whether I support either side or vote against either side. What is important is the message the Taoiseach has completely missed or failed to understand, and that applies to Deputy Haughey too. It is that the electorate voted for neither side. Neither side, the Coalition — of course we now must accept Labour's disappearance, something outrageous, alas — nor Fianna Fáil have been trusted by the electorate in a free, open election. The electorate decided that neither of them have policies worthy of support. After 60 years of independent Government, it is most distressing. It is the daunting conclusion that must be taken out of the result of the election.

The Irish electorate are very mature, very sophisticated. We have seen that on a number of occasions when they have been faced with difficult choices. They operate under what seems to be a very complex system, PR, but they have succeeded on a number of occasions in operating that system with extraordinary precision.

What they have told the Taoiseach and the Leader of the Opposition this time is that they are in despair about both policies. They do not believe that either side can solve their problems. It is serious that this very conscious, mature, literate electorate — now, fortunately, much more literate than they ever were — have decided not to trust either side; "A pox on both your houses". This is the despairing conclusion both sides must arrive at if they give it serious thought.

But there is something much more serious. There have been comments on the age of the electorate, 50 per cent of them younger than 25 years. That is the most frightening statistic of all. We see an electorate much more literate than in my generation or my parents' generation. Now there are no British Isles, Britain and Ireland, North and South. Now there is Western Europe. We have seen representatives of seven Western capitalist countries in Ottawa at last run out of alibis. Here is the Marxist analysis that at last they would end up tearing each others' eyes out. That is what they are at in Ottawa.

What is happening here is a microcosm of what is happening in the capitalist world: the Government are turning on the working class telling them they can have this system: "We will have this system at your expense. You must accept shattering cost of living standards". That is what is being offered to our people. I am sorry to say that the youngsters in Liverpool and London in Brixton, Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, Belfast, Derry and Dublin are telling them they have overstepped the limit and that they will not get away with it.

This, of course, is one of the most consciously class discriminatory budgets introduced in my time. The youngsters are in the streets. In Dublin they have been on the H-Blocks issue. The H-Blocks are not the real reason. That is an excuse for them to try to discharge their terrible sense of disappointment, frustration, disillusionment, anger, resentment, hatred of the kind of system which subjects them to the humiliation of having spent years going through an educational system which has promised them a brave, bright new world, but when they have spent their years going through the system all that is being offered to them is the humiliation and degradation of the dole queue and rejection by society. We do not need them. This budget will increase the number of people unemployed. There is no doubt about that. Under the rule of the Opposition we had 120,000 or so unemployed and, without a doubt, that figure will go up. You cannot take the kind of money the Government are taking out of the economy and ensure that employment will go up. It must fall. When will they learn?

I have to compliment the young man who produced this budget, Deputy Bruton, on the clear and convincing way he did it. All credit to him. I have listened to variations on the same budget from McGilligan, McEntee, Ryan, Sweetman, Deputy Gene Fitzgerald and Deputy Haughey in their different periods in office as Ministers for Finance. Time after time after time, these budgets offered nothing except a sense of security to the haves and a sense of rejection and desolation to the have nots. Was it Mr. de Valera who first said Labour must wait? Was it ever more clearly demonstrated than in this budget that Labour agreed yet once again in a Coalition Government to wait and wait?

I have an awful feeling that there is a generation of young Irish men and young Irish women who will not wait, who are in the streets. I have the greatest sympathy for the Garda who will now stand between them and you people and suffer in consequence because of the deprivation and the humiliation to which you have subjected them and which they will no longer put up with. It is later than five minutes to midnight. It is very close to midnight. Most people watching the situation out there, and in Britain, and in the North of Ireland, and in western Europe, must recognise that we are on the edge of some kind of cataclysmic change in the structures of society. The great dangers are the ending of whatever real democracy there is in this kind of Parliament and the awful possibilities of another phase. I watched the rise of the Nazis and the Fascists, and most of Franco's time as a student and later as a young man. There is the possibility of the development of either right wing fascism expressed, in my view, by the Provisional IRA manipulating the H Blocks marches in the most cynical way as they are manipulating the poor youngsters dying on hunger strike, or a left wing brand of fascism.

Unless you people who now lead what are the vestiges of parliamentary democracy succeed in listening to the sounds from the streets and the cries for change, the changes will be forced upon you. I do not think my charge is unfair when I say this is a discriminatory, class budget. Year after year I have listened to the problems of the less able. In this budget there is a 5 per cent increase for old age pensioners. When will the socially dependent classes get justice under your system? Why should they wait? They have waited 60 years. Is it to be another 60 years? They are getting 5 per cent and 3 per cent. None of you has the capacity to change places with these people or with the unemployed. The other day I heard the Minister for Finance say that in this budget an unemployed man with three children will get an increase of £2.50, I think it is. He seemed to be very pleased. What the hell use is £2.50 to anyone in the present crisis?

I talked to a little woman last night at one of my clinics. Her husband is unemployed. She lives in Cromcastle Flats. She cannot afford electricity to warm her flat and she has an 11-weeks old baby. The corporation say they have not got the money to heat the flats. This is the kind of society our people are living in, and you offer them 5 per cent having increased VAT from 10 per cent to 15 per cent. What makes you think the old age pensioner and the socially dependent classes will not suffer as a result of the increase in VAT which involves increases on virtually every kind of consumer goods? Why should they be exempted from the right to buy the kind of things we all accept as necessary for everyday living, and particularly in the declining years of one's life? It appears to me that they are expected by you people to live in a sort of ghetto of despair, neglect and rejection by the rest of society. It is shameful that you people can accept this kind of two nations or two kinds of society. You have done it for 60 years. I guarantee that you will not do it for another 60 years.

I went to the trouble of looking up some figures. First let me deal with the Opposition. The general impression is being created by the Leader of the Opposition that there is no need for this kind of change or any kind of change, and that he had no intention of bringing in this kind of punitive legislation, which it certainly is. I should like to ask the Leader of the Opposition to explain this. He went for a personal mandate and did not get it. He subjected his party to the rigours of a general election and they were defeated. He lost his majority of 20. He lost his party the election and they now find themselves over there in Opposition as a greatly depleted party. A number of men who were on the backbenches are no longer in this House. He made this decision to go the the country, without any need whatsoever to do so, because he had another 12 or 18 months or what-ever it was to go. Will he explain — not to me; I am still here — to the men who were here and to his own former Ministers who are over there beside him now, why he took that decision to risk his party, to risk his Government, his own position, his fellow Ministers' positions and those of backbenchers who are around the House touting for seats in the Seanad? There must be some explanation why he took that decision. There was no need for it.

Nobody can tell me that if Deputy Haughey had got back we would not be facing much the same situation with exactly the same conservative attitude to the very serious problems of society. He would deal with them in much the same way as he did when he was Minister for Finance. Why should he suddenly become as radical as he protests he has now that he is in Opposition and totally impotent with little power to change society? Let him riddle us that.

I make a present of this to the Government. I know the delicate state of support in the Dáil but I cannot see myself, even if there was not the case I have made for not supporting Fianna Fáil on this occasion, supporting a Government led by a man so greatly over-rated as I have always said he was and capable of making such disastrous misjudgements as he has made in relation to the economy and in his whole political outlook. This is a matter for his party so long as he stays where he is.

This is a two-nation society. There is a very wealthy sector and that sector is represented by the powers on both sides, the powers who control government whether in opposition or in power. There has been the increase in VAT in respect of ordinary items. It is 10 to 15 per cent of an increase. No doubt the Minister will correct me if I am wrong but I understand this is on everyday items of necessity. Yet there is no increase whatever on luxury goods, the luxury VAT.

It is a misnomer to describe the VAT rate as a luxury rate. It includes such things as furniture which on no account can be classed as luxury goods.

A rose by any other name. I do not see why people buying fur coats, if they have to pay 40 per cent, should not have to pay 140 per cent.

That is a fair point but not on furniture, carpets and so on.

Deputy Browne without interruption, please.

The trade union movement issued a very useful information book. In this manual one will get a picture of the other side of the fence from the lady in Cromcastle with the nine-week old baby. As regards companies, 78 in 1979, profits after tax increased by 32 per cent in 1979 and by 25 per cent in 1980. Dividends in 1979 increased by 31 per cent and in 1980 by 27 per cent. Profits retained in 1979 was 32 per cent and in 1980, 23 per cent. Directors' remuneration in 1979 was plus 14 per cent and in 1980 plus 20 per cent. There is a list of public companies in the second quarter of 1980. ACEC Ireland, profits after tax £320,000; directors' remuneration £6,000; dividends £151,000. Arnotts, profits after tax £1,621,000, directors' remuneration £65,000, dividends £535,000. Brooks Watson, profits after tax £1,277,000; directors' remuneration £187,000; dividends £447,000. Brown Thomas, profits after tax £265,000; directors' remuneration £26,000; dividends £74,000 and so on.

There are also bank profits and the derisive £5 million taken from them. It would have been better to have ignored it than to have drawn attention to this miserable £5 million taken from them. The pre-tax profits of the two main Irish bank groups for the year ending March 1980 amounted to £82.6 million and the current Irish corporation tax payable was £8.6 million, equivalent to a rate of 10.4 per cent. I should like to have an income tax rate of 10.4 per cent. One of the greatest scandals of all is the misuse of our mineral resources. Tara Exploration and Development Company Limited own 75 per cent of the lead-zinc mine at Navan. It earned $86.4 million from the sale of concentrates. This is a raw material which we make little or no attempt to deal with in order to create wealth.

The great failing of this and previous budgets is that no serious attempt was made by any Government, by their dependence on private enterprise capital, to create the kind of wealth needed to provide the facilities that are required in education, health, housing, the provision of jobs and the protection of the social welfare classes. This budget does nothing except to protect the have's against the have not's. There is no attempt to change the policy of the IDA in order to deal with the enormous unemployment figures. There was a time when the late Mr. Lemass talked about being prepared to be judged by his performance in employment. It is very rarely that we hear anything now about full employment. Despite continuous support for agriculture the industry remains one of the most inefficient agricultural industries in western Europe.

One of the very depressing features of political life today is the absence of a serious labour movement. This trade union information journal dealt with a totally different approach to our social and economic problems from that put forward not only by this Government but by their predecessors. The failure of such approach is evident in all of the western European countries in which there is a total of 10 million unemployed. These are predominantly young people and there is no prospect whatever for them with the exception possibly of those in France under Mitterand. There is no prospect of any serious inroad being made in the employment situation as a result of the pre-occupation with monopoly capitalism, with private enterprise.

All of the people mentioned here, Arnotts, Brown Thomas's, Smurfitts, Guinnesses and so on, are concerned only with making enough money to meet the personal needs of their directors. They are not concerned with the creation of wealth to provide for the needs of the mass of the people. It is evident from reports emanating from Ottawa that these Governments are coming up against the final conflict in which there are shrinking markets with all competing for the same markets. This is leading to the final terrible conflict. In the past such problems were solved by wars but one can only hope that the horrific prospect of a nuclear war will prevent that being used as a solution.

The ICTU have put forward certain proposals for bringing about the kind of society that they would like. Among these proposals is much greater State involvement, public ownership of the banks, public ownership of the means of production and distribution and exchange together with serious concern for the repercussions of technical development and the necessity to prepare for the need for the acceptance of much greater leisure. This extra leisure would be brought about by a shortening of the working week to 35 hours, by retirement at 55 with adequate pensions and by longer holidays. How different is this concern for people by comparison with this book-keeper's budget in which there is no evidence of concern for humanity, as if people were just there to be manipulated and to provide the Taoiseach, who appears to have this obsession with figures without any great pre-occupation with the repercussions of that obsession on society, with some sort of play thing?

There is no evidence of any realisation on the part of this Government that their function is not only the provision of new jobs but the protection of existing jobs. There is no serious attempt to extend the programme of public works. At a time of such reduction in consumption and of the difficulties being experienced by Irish industry there is no reason for there not being some form of selective import controls. This budget does not in any way solve the problems of industry. Neither does it do anything to solve the problems of the people who elected me to this House, though it may solve the problems of those who, I think, elected the Minister for Finance and most of the other members of his party.

I have been saying all of this for a long time. I have said it to successive Governments but I have always been ignored. Perhaps, the Minister can afford to ignore me, too, but my feeling is that regardless of whether he may wish to ignore me, that is what he must do. There are very radical changes taking place in our society and if the conservative parties—Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and, I regret to say, Labour, behave as they have been behaving and simply treat this place as a chummy sort of talking shop with pleasant working hours whose real function they appear to ignore completely—that is the creation of justice within our society—then they are in for a very rough awakening.

I want to make a brief contribution on the educational aspects on this hard and severe budget introduced by the new Minister for Finance, Deputy Bruton. It is our contention that this was an unnecessary budget and that the public were conditioned to think that various Departments had been over-spending, that there was to be a colossal deficit on current account, that it was endangering growth in the community and endangering our currency. Like the famous Goya paintings all the black strokes were in, yet we find the punt at 80p maintaining itself steadily in the EMS and even the Minister for Finance surfaces like Proteus out of his dark sea and says that there will be a growth of 2 per cent in 1981.

The Minister said in his speech that the numbers employed in the public sector would be pegged at the numbers obtaining on 21 July 1981. Education is an area where it is impossible to do that. One cannot as a responsible Minister for Education say that in regard to any one year, particularly in our circumstances where uniquely in Europe we have a growing population. A meeting of Ministers for Education of the EEC took place a short time ago and one of the major matters for discussion at this meeting — and the meetings are rare in education because of the difficulties some countries have with regard to the Treaty of Rome — was that the big problem for all the members of the EEC with the exception of Ireland is that of falling population, declining population, schools being empty and teachers becoming redundant. We have the exact opposite position here and consequently no Minister for Finance or Minister for Education can say with any kind of credibility that he can peg those employed in the teaching area at the numbers obtaining at any date, unless he wants to throw the whole education scene into confusion.

In our case the numbers are increasing at primary, post-primary and third levels, and I am very glad that the Minister for Education has accepted my commitment. I had 300 teachers trained so that new schedules of employment could be introduced for primary schools to absorb 300 extra teachers in the academic year 1981-82. Those 300 are above the numbers of people retiring and they are above the numbers necessary for ordinary staffing under the old rules. They are above the depleted numbers when people opt out of teaching for one reason or another. I am glad to see reported in The Irish Press of today that “Minister Boland has made a statement that the Government had decided to proceed with the creation of extra posts already announced by his predecessor Mr. Wilson who improved the pupil-teacher ratio and strengthened the remedial teaching service”. This, as the House knows, has been a continuing process for the last four years. I inherited a situation in 1977 where there were 3,260 classes of forty plus in ordinary primary schools. By making provision for the training of teachers and the rejigging of schedules this was reduced to 2,160 in 1978-79, to 980 in 1979-80 and for this year it stands at about 650. Therefore, the employment of the 300 teachers as announced by me some time ago should eliminate this problem of the 40 plus classes altogether. If progress is to be made beyond that and the classes are to be reduced more, there will have to be a commitment by the Minister to train more teachers and to re-order the schedules so that the class numbers can be brought down to the middle thirties as I had ambitioned.

I know that all of this is expensive. I am speaking of it here in the context of the statement of the Minister for Finance that the numbers employed in the public sector were to be pegged as on 21 July 1981. As I said, we have increasing numbers in primary post-primary and third level education and we must provide the teachers for them. Of course, we must also provide the school buildings. The House knows already that we provided a capital budget of £79.3 million this year to cover all the areas of education. In particular £30 million, a colossal figure by previous standards, was provided for the development of the primary school system for the building of new schools in green field areas. We are proud to announce that in some areas in the suburbs of Dublin we were ahead of the gynaecologist because we had large schools of eight teachers, 16 teachers and 32 teachers in some areas where we had not yet the children. These areas were developing areas where we had one, two or three classes and we had the schools ready for the reception of others later.

It is very important that the Minister should have a commitment from the Minister for Finance that there will be no interference, even though capital moneys have to be borrowed, with the programme for primary school building. It is important because it is an area in which it is difficult to get up speed. There are two Departments responsible. Unlike the post primary area, the Office of Public Works and the Department of Education are responsible for the primary area. They are both catering for different aspects of the capital programme and primary sector. This sometimes causes delay.

One thing that cannot and will not cause delay this year is the provision of finance if the present Minister for Finance backs the decision of his predecessor to make that kind of money available for the building of primary schools. Perhaps it might be advisable to proceed with the suggestion I made to set up, in the Department of Education, a primary school building unit —I know it has to await the consideration by the Department of the Public Service of re-organisation and so on — corresponding to the building unit at post primary level in that Department. The post primary unit in the Department of Education could be regarded as a model of efficiency in that field. I had occasion to mention in the House that their costings are better than the costings outlined by the surveyors. Their index is lower and has been consistently lower than the surveyors' index, which is the general index for the building industry here.

The post primary area, divided almost equally, with a little bias in favour of vocational schools, has an allocation of £31 million this year. We hope that the Minister for Finance will back his colleague, the Minister for Education, in providing for that development. It is difficult to have an injunction against any extra spending.

We had the good fortune, comparatively recently, to purchase Carriglea. We could not envisage this golden opportunity arising when the budget was put together. Consequently, a decision has to be taken to provide extra finance in that situation. The purchase of Carriglea for £2 million was a very good one for the Department of Education. We were looking for a site for a regional technical college in the general area of Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire or Bray and we got this at a bargain price. If there is an inflexible approach to finance you cannot deal with a situation like that. In the previous year we succeeded in purchasing the Masonic school for use by University College, Dublin. It was for fortuitous that it came on the market. There should be flexibility in finances to enable the Department of Education to do that kind of thing.

Alarm has spread around the country with regard to another expenditure this year by the Department of Education. I have been informed that sponsors of projects that were sanctioned have now been told that the money will not be available to them and that the matter has to be re-considered. A letter has gone out to them from the secretary of the Department of Education cancelling any further advance. I have not got the exact details. This should be resisted by the people in charge of the projects and by anybody who has the social well-being of the areas concerned at heart. I am sure the Minister for Education will be able to impress on his colleagues the necessity for this expenditure, both for the social advantage that it confers on the area and for the employment content. We have heard a lot of caterwauling about increasing unemployment and if the expenditure of this money can help in the creation of employment in the various areas, then the logical position seems to be that they should go ahead.

The question of VAT on school books has been a bone of contention for some time. There has been general discussion about it. Our Government did not succeed in zero rating school books. It stood at 10 per cent. There have been appeals from parents' organisations and trade unions to remove it altogether. Now we find that VAT has been increased by 5 per cent on school and college text books. Books have increased in price, admittedly probably not as steeply as the consumer price index, but there have been complaints from parents with regard to this. It was inconsiderate, to say the very least, of the Minister for Finance to put 5 per cent extra on to the price of school and college textbooks, in view of a commitment in the Fine Gael and Gaiety Theatre programme to provide free school books. I will come to that later. There is a commitment in that respect and it is part of my duty, as spokesman for Education, to see that the Minister for Education stands up to what was in the Fine Gael programme and carried on into the Gaiety Theatre programme document.

Heating of schools has become a heavy burden for school management boards. Energy costs have risen very steeply. As Minister, I had to add to the capitation grant by way of special and exceptional addition a sum of money to help the boards in this regard in the very recent past. I cannot see how the Minister for Education can now allow the Minister for Finance to increase the cost of fuel without asking him to take into account the necessity for increasing heating grants in schools as a result. The additional taxation on petrol and diesel will mean an increase in the cost of school transport and I draw this to the attention of the Minister for Education.

I am very pleased that the Minister has increased the education grants for third level. Tá moladh tuillte aige mar geall ar sin. There are a couple of aspects of the increase which I want to call to the attention of the House. Firstly, it is generally believed, — and statements have been made by responsible parents' associations and others — that Fine Gael canvassers during the election campaign stated that the eligibility limit increase and grant increase would be fully retrospective. I was not told that by any canvasser but so many people are on record now as saying that this was told to them that there is a question to be answered by the Government and by the Minister for Education.

Accompanying the grant increase is a very steep cost of living increases directly caused by this budget introduced by the Minister for Finance. This takes something of the gloss off the increase in third level grants. The rise of fees, of course, does not affect grant holders because the fees are paid for the grant holder and, even in the limited case where the full grant is not available in some instances, it is the fee which is actually paid.

We had been in discussion with the Higher Education Authority and with the heads of the university colleges. We wrote to these people — sometime in May, I believe — indicating that we accepted in principle that more money should be made available to them. They had already in some cases, if not all, made a decision to increase the fees by 20 per cent. It was in that universal discourse in that area that we were thinking of the extra money which was to be made available to the universities. We see now that the increase has been of the order of 30 per cent. That was the decision reached by the heads of the universities, having met the Minister for Education and having been told what money they would get. Obviously, the 10 per cent extra increase in fees was imposed because the Minister did not make available the money which they were expecting from discussions with the previous Government and from their own submissions.

Salary increases are relevant to a budget and I must refer here to something which I raised last night on the Adjournment about the officials of the Department of Education who are in dispute with the Minister. The result of this dispute, of course, is that there are about 343,000 examination answer books lying unattended in Athlone. I do not intend to go into the details of this dispute now. However, I do not think that the Minister for Education should slough off, as a snake does its skin, responsibility for what is happening in one of his offices in Athlone and which has such dire consequences for so many young people in our community. I do not intend to expand on that. The Minister should face up to his responsibility in the matter and try to get things moving. There are ways of doing things. I told the Minister last night that I was in total agreement with him that the agreed procedures should be adhered to, but it is his responsibility to get the agreed procedures working. That is all I want to say on that subject.

The Minister's speech contained a statement which caused the alarm bells to start ringing from Cork to Donegal, from Dublin to Galway and other important areas in between. This was:

Substantial savings will also be achieved by the Departments of Justice, Environment, Education, Defence and others.

The inclusion of the Department of Education was what caused alarm in educational circles. In today's The Irish Times there is a joint statement from the Teachers' Union of Ireland, the Association of Secondary Teachers of Ireland and the Irish National Teachers' Organisation which says that “cuts in educational expenditure would constitute an act of national folly”. I agree with that.

It goes on:

"Contrary to the budget statement by Mr. John Bruton, Minister for finance, there is no scope for substantial savings in the educational services budget," the unions declared. The suggestion of a review of educational services to find ways of reducing expenditure "would be contrary to the stated aims in the Coalition's published "Programme for government 1981-86", the statement said. In a separate statement, INTO said that in a survey carried out by them before the election, the Fine Gael and Labour Parties had committed themselves to:

a. Reducing the size of classes in national schools.

b. Taking the necessary steps to provide adequate school premises and equipment.

I am glad to see, as already stated in the House, that the Minister has accepted my scheme for reducing the size of classes.

I have provided the where withal, provided that the Minister for Education will see to it that the Minister for Finance does not welsh on that. There are £30 million available for the development of primary school buildings in this year. This is to be used for extensions to schools, for building new schools in green field areas and, very importantly, to be made available for quick, fire brigade type expenditure on schools to improve the various facilities in them.

The INTO statement continued:

c. Pursuing a programme of positive discrimination in favour of socially and educationally disadvantaged pupils;

d. Expanding the provision of special educational facilities.

The union warned that it "will oppose any attempt to cut expenditure on the educational services".

INTO, however, welcomed the statement by the Minister for Education, Mr. Boland, confirming the increased staffing in national schools announced by the previous Minister, Mr. Wilson.

The decision represented a further step in the slow progression towards the reduction in size of primary school classes to an acceptable level, "It is the view of the INTO that this issue should continue to be an educational priority."

Under the increased staffing the number of pupils required for the appointment of an additional assistant has been reduced by five in most cases.

I hope the Minister will be further committed to improving on the schedules in the years ahead.

Where are those substantial savings to be made, which caused such alarm to parent associations and teachers unions since the Minister made his statement? There is no room for such savings, as I indicated. There are rumours of a pay freeze and that the Minister for Education is being pressed to raise the age of entry to primary schools and save 1,700 teaching posts. I hope the Minister will give me a commitment that he will not entertain such a suggestion.

Almost uniquely in Europe we have a very large percentage of our pupils in the ordinary primary schools at ages of four and five while the compulsory age is six. This means we have fully trained teachers available for those pupils in our primary schools. If there are to be substantial savings, and I do not see how this is possible nor do I believe it is possible, I hope this proposal will be killed straight away.

Are the capitation grants to be frozen or cut? I increased the capitation grants for primary schools this year, and the grants in lieu of fees to secondary schools have been increased from 1 September. I hope the Minister for Finance will assure me that he has no intention of casting a greedy eye on those grants in lieu of fees.

One of the most hopeful recent developments has been a scheme I put forward for the development of distance learning. I sanctioned the provision of staff in the National Institute for Higher Education, Dublin, to get this scheme under way. I envisaged the plan as being something new and exciting in our education system. I envisaged co-operation between NIHE, Dublin, the RTE Authority and the adult education officers acting as liaison officers in this concerted well planned scheme. Again I am warning the Minister of that area. As a member of the Dublin Vocational Education Committee he has considerable experience in this area and realises the value of that initiative. I am sure he will support it by providing the necessary finance. I had already approved the staffing requirements and meetings had been held with the RTE Authority and the adult education officers who are, by definition committed to that kind of work. I am sure the Minister will not disappoint us in this area.

The regional technical colleges were also uniquely placed for bringing in students for tuition and guidance throughout the period of the course. The first course was to be a general foundation course in computer science, to be followed by a course properly validated by the National Council for Educational Awards, and awarding a national certificate. The second course was in the area of agricultural education. I hope there is no truth in the belief held in some circles that the distance learning project will suffer in the interest of the substantial savings mentioned by the Minister in his budget speech.

I come to another canard which has raised its head on numerous occasions, that is, the charge for school transport The idea of a charge for school transport has to be resisted by the Minister for Education. The provision of free school transport will be more expensive because of the increase in duty on petrol and diesel granted in this supplementary budget. I would be pleased if the Minister told us free school transport would be maintained and that he was prepared to defend that position.

It is rumoured that in an attempt to save money the Department will charge for post-primary education after the compulsory age limit. The House and the Government parties, particularly the Labour Party, should be wary of this suggestion which would cut across the developments in our educational system which have taken place over the last number of years.

There is a commitment in the joint programme for the provision of free school books. I am very pleased to see that. Nobody would be satisfied with a scheme unless it was adequate, but at least the Government commitment to free books should kill the rumour that there was an attempt to abolish the scheme.

The increase in third level fees beyond the 20 per cent limit decided on by the universities would seem to be a device to save money in this area. I want to call the attention of the House to a suggestion that the subvention for board and accommodation for student teachers should be abolished. This is one point I would like the Minister for Education and the Minister for Finance to clarify. The statement that accompanied the new grants scheme was a little ambiguous in one area. Is it the intention to eliminate subventions for board and accommodation for student teacher? These students are in a unique position because the colleges developed their own spirit over a long number of years and have accommodation, dining halls, libraries and so on. The existing system is ideally suited for their purposes. If it is the intention to introduce a grants scheme in such a way that the student teacher will be in the same position as the university student grant-holder, then it should be resisted.

Tá cúig nóiméid fágtha agat.

I hope it is not the intention to attempt to save money where no money can be saved. I agree fully with the statement on this matter made by the three unions involved.

It has been said that my commitment for the provision of computers in post primary schools at the beginning of the academic year 1981-82 is not to be adhered to by the Minister. I cannot emphasise too much the importance I attach to this development. Deputy Browne talked about problems which might arise as a result of the development and use of micro-processors and computers in general. Our young people must know the enemy, so to speak, so that they will be able to cope with a society where it will become more and more important. I would welcome an assurance that this worthwhile scheme will not be interfered with. Although there is only about a month left, the necessary courses could take place, although people waiting to mark examination scripts would not be able to attend. I appeal to the Ministers for Finance and Education not to interfere with courses for teachers. We had courses for teachers this year and more of them are needed in order to familiarise teachers with computers and also with the pedagogic aspects.

I have dealt already to a certain extent with the primary school building programme. I will constitute myself as a watchdog, with all due apologies to official watchdogs, with regard to primary education spending to see to it that there is no slowdown in primary school building. The money and the plans are there and we had a large number of projects in mind. As of now there is a general air of confidence and euphoria in this area.

In my introductory remarks I said that we were hearing much about irresponsibility with regard to finances and expenditure. I took the precaution of finding out the exact financial position in my Department at 31 May 1981. The amount spent was roughly on target and I was pressing very hard to make sure we would be able to spend the £79.3 million which had been allocated in the capital area. The amount of expenditure over that provided in the Book of Estimates would have been smaller than in 1980. There is no evidence of irresponsibility. Naturally in a Department which is labour intensive and where new salary scales cause extra expenditure during the year there will have to be some supplementary budget. We were certainly on target. Perhaps we had not spent enough on the capital programme by 31 May, even though we were pushing hard. Let the Minister for Finance know that I intend implacably to oppose any attempt to reduce expenditure in the Department of Education. I will also call upon people in the Fine Gael Party and particularly in the Labour Party who have been urging increasing expenditure over the years to put their feet in the lobby where their mouths have been during the past four years.

Before making some comments on my Department and the problems I found there on assuming office, I wish to comment on the speech made this morning by Deputy Browne. He is a man for whom I have a lot of regard. He made an emotional attack on the system in this House and on Members on both sides and also attacked the system under which the country is governed. He was particularly trenchant in his remarks about the unemployment situation and the effects on our society now and in future years if something is not done to relieve the problem. He related it to the riot which took place on Merrion Road last Saturday. That was dangerous talk from a respected parliamentarian. If we let ourselves be led down that alley and do not identify precisely what took place on Saturday last we are in danger of finding excuses for a problem which does not exist. I will speak later about the cost of the riot to the taxpayer and the community. I would like to believe that some fairly sincere people, for humanitarian reasons, have associated themselves with the H-Blocks campaign, but we must clearly identify that what happened last Saturday was a deliberate attempt by certain elements to score a victory over the defenders of our society. For Deputy Browne to say in his speech that these evil men should be protected from the thin blue line, from the Members of the House and society as we know it, and to infer that people who attacked the Gardai last Saturday were merely young people venting their frustrations, and that they were a symptom of the society in which they were reared, is misleading and dangerous in the extreme. The people who attacked the Gardai last Saturday did so quite deliberately in a confrontation with this State.

Deputy Browne should not set himself up here as being holier than anybody else in the House or as being more concerned about the young and the unemployed. Deputy Browne is entitled to say that in this House, and every other elected Deputy will have personal views as to how effective are the State in coping with unemployment, education, housing, poor roads, telecommunications and so on-and we all have our ideas on how they can be coped with. Some of us group ourselves into parties because we believe this to be the most effective way of tackling those problems, a phalanx of like minded Deputies presenting themselves to the people with a programme. That applies to all parties. Neither Deputies Kemmy nor Browne believe this to be the way, and that is their democratic right. During the last Dáil I resented Deputy Browne being here, not because I did not think he had something to contribute but because he took a Fine Gael seat. I do not mind him being here this time because he took a Fianna Fáil seat. Outside of the politics of it, a voice like Deputy Browne's is a good thing in any society because we can become apathetic and we need occasional proddings. However I do not accept that Deputy Ray Burke, Deputy Loughnane, myself or Deputy Fergus O'Brien or anyone else are less concerned with the problems than is Deputy Noel Browne.

I hope that in the remainder of the debate the H-Blocks and the riots will not dominate the scene. I accept that the Minister prefaced his remarks by saying that it was not his intention to dwell at length on this.

The line, which, to the best of my knowledge, Deputy Browne was not corrected for pursuing by the Chair this morning, is extremely dangerous. The Deputy proposed to try to equate what happened last Saturday with young peoples' frustration about being unemployed. Does anybody inside or outside this House think that if the unemployment level was 30,000 rather than 130,000, what happened last Saturday would not have taken place? The Deputy then extended his remarks to say that what was happening here was akin to and parallel with what is happening in the riots in Liverpool, Manchester, London and so on. The Deputy is trying to make what happened fit his own theory. One of the most distressing things I read, which should be a warning to all of us, in relation to the riots which took place in England was about an Asian woman recounting what had happened on the day the riots broke out. She said that she went into her shop and that skinheads had come in and started to wreck it. She said that she picked up the phone and rang her friends. She did not mean the police. She rang people of her own nationality. She was a coloured person, and these people had evidently formed some sort of a vigilante group to protect coloured people from attacks by white people. To pretend that that was not precisely what was behind the riots in England is dangerous.

Deputy Browne's solution to this is that capitalism, or society as we know it, should be dismantled and socialism should take its place as the answer to all our problems. Our financial problems, according to Deputy Browne, are because of a capitalist society and he quoted Marxists as saying that they should not claw the eyes from one another as in a capitalist society. I saw more clawing of eyes being done between Poland and Russia than between the capitalist nations. Capitalism is not a perfect system, nor is socialism or communism. They all have their faults. To get backed in to any "ism" and pretend it has all the answers for all time will not help the young people about whom Deputy Browne is so concerned. Deputy Browne is older than I. But even in my time under this very imperfect system, which Deputy Browne criticises so eloquently and so often, during which, due to the span of years, we were mostly governed by Fianna Fáil, I have seen children without shoes. I do not see that nowadays.

In my city of Cork and, I am sure, in Limerick and in Dublin, people lived in appalling slum conditions. People are still living in bad conditions but nobody lives in the conditions in which people lived in the thirties. Indeed I remember quite clearly that when I discarded my shoes they were given to the children of farming relations out the country. If you will excuse the pun, the boot would be on the other foot nowadays. There is no doubt about that. At the same time those conditions are within my living memory. I am sure every Deputy in this House, if he is honest with himself, will admit that things are better for more people now than they were when they were growing up. That is evolution and progress; it is not fast enough and it is not far enough but it is not meaningless and should not be wiped off in a ten-minute, eloquent address by one Deputy out of 166 in this Parliament as if nothing had happened in 60 years. It has; we should be proud of it, build on it and not try to scrap the whole lot for some "ism" which patently, when practised in other parts of the world, is not answering their problems.

I think Deputy Browne is wrong, very wrong. Nobody should be foolish enough to believe that putting people into work will prevent a repetition of what happened in Dublin last Saturday, because the people who organised and manipulated that crowd will just as easily organise, manipulate and be equally destructive with a crowd of employed people as with a crowd of unemployed people. Indeed if one were to judge by the people on the television screens over the weekend, who knows what percentage of them were employed or unemployed. But it is very dangerous to this country if we allow ourselves be codded into believing that there was not a sinister force behind what happened last Saturday. Apart from the social cost, the cost to society in an ideological, fundamental sense, there was another cost involved about which I shall say a few words later.

First of all I want to say something about my Department which is what I really stood up to say but I think the diversion was worthwhile. I was very concerned, on arriving in my Department at the very serious financial position—unlike what Deputy Wilson said a few moments ago- I saw facing my Department and particularly local authourites who report to and are responsible to my Department. I found it necessary to provide for very substantial additions for a very large number of services for which I am responsible. The provision already fixed for these in the Estimates seriously under-estimated what would be the requirements. Additional sums of £16½ million for housing subsidy, £3 million for sanitary services subsidy, £5.2 million for rates grant and £3 million for malicious injuries claims have now been provided. These additional sums alone amount to almost £28 million. That is a very substantial sum. Regretably I find that these additional amounts are required to meet on-going and very predictable commitments rather than provide for expansion and new services. In other words, they could have been foreseen last December but they were cut out of the Estimates for my Department.

The House and the public generally will appreciate that the Government could not but face up to the absolute necessity of providing for the essential additional financial aid which will be falling due to local authorities. The alternative would be to leave local authorities short of this amount which would lead in the autumn to a major crisis for the finances of local authorities with the direct consequences for the economy and in particular for employment. Of course the consequences for the public generally arising from the supplementary budget are unpalatable but all must agree that they are necessary in the interests of good Government and reversing the very serious position of our national finances.

I want to say a few words about the waste of the resources of the State and local authorities caused by wanton damage to property which gives rise to malicious injuries payments. Disturbances arising from demonstrations such as that in Dublin on Saturday last can affect the society in which we live and our economic wellbeing in ways which extend beyond the events themselves. One of the more direct and obvious effects is the cost of damage to property which cannot be ignored in any consideration of local finance. Unfortunately it is one which in recent times has become a good deal more serious. The type of damage to property which in recent times has followed demonstrations such as that of last Saturday usually results in massive claims against local authorities under the malicious injuries code.

Where malicious injury claims against the local authorities are successful in the courts the local authorities have to raise the money to pay the decrees. There are arrangements under which the amount of the decrees is shared between the Exchequer and local authorities. The details of the arrangements for sharing the cost may be important in the context of the finances of individual local authorities but what should concern all of us here is that the entire cost comes from public funds.

Leaving aside altogether the events of last Saturday and the claims which may arise from them, local authorities, up to early June, were faced already with claims for damage caused within the previous few months or so which were the result of activities which I can only describe as subversive. These activities have left our community facing claims for damage totalling about £7.5 million. The claims included damage by fire to houses, public buildings, vehicles and other property in a number of areas throughout the country. I cannot say what the final cost of the direct damage, as measured by the courts in these cases, will turn out to be. The amounts claimed, however, give an indication of the type of cost involved for the community. I might say that the £7.5 million does not include anything that happened in the last week the claims for which must be lodged, I think, within seven days. It may perhaps help to put this in perspective if I were to say that £7.5 million would build, say, 325 local authority houses — and anybody here who is a member of a local authority knows how badly they are needed — or provide employment — which was of so much concern to Deputy Browne a minute ago — for 500 men for a year on national road maintenance. This is just one way of measuring the cost to the community and the loss to local services of this type of mindless damage to property.

Local authorities are faced with enough problems in continuing and improving the services for which they have responsibility without having to dissipate their finances and their other resources in dealing with claims in respect of damage to property which need not and should not arise.

As regards local authorities' overall finances, they have not, of course, been able to escape the difficulties which have beset the public sector generally. Although the position varied from place to place there was a marked deterioration in the overall financial position of local authorities generally during 1980. One way in which this deterioration manifested itself was in increased reliance on bank overdraft to keep the capital services going and to pay for the ordinary day-to-day running costs of local authority services.

The additional £30 million, which I will refer to later, being provided in respect of the local authority housing programme, should be of help in this respect in the current year. Apart from wider considerations related to the level of borrowing, undue reliance on overdraft can be costly for local authorities and can thereby effectively reduce the amount available for expenditure on local services.

In the current year local authorities have been able to budget for the spending of £603 million on non-capital services. I realise that in relation to any year a substantial part of the revenue of local authorities effectively must be committed by decisions taken in previous years. This is a feature of the finances of nearly all public bodies. Nevertheless, within their overall current budget of £603 million for 1981 local authorities can no more ignore the need for restraint which current circumstances require than can the rest of the public sector. This is the theme that will be repeated very frequently from these benches by myself and other Ministers in this Government, the necessity for all units and arms of Government to watch carefully their expenditures in all fields. We will be concerned to see that as much as possible of the money voted by this House goes to the people for whom it was intended rather than being creamed off in administration en route. It is up to the local authorities to make the best use they can of the financial resources available to them. This will involve a conscious and sustained effort on their part to direct their expenditures towards those services most urgently needed. At the same time they should be wary of entering into commitments which, though costing little in the current year, may unduly pre-empt local revenues in future years, thus limiting their freedom. The members and management of local authorities alike should be constantly on the alert for ways and means of improving the efficiency of their organisations to ensure the maximum return for their expenditure.

The cumulative effect of the annual expenditure on the capital programmes of local authorities gives rise to continuing increases in the demands of their current budgets. This arises both from the growth in net loan charges to service the capital debt and from the extra maintenance and management costs of new houses, water supply schemes and so on. There is also the added burden arising from the increased pressure on the other services which are so often taken for granted when new houses are built and occupied. Services like street lighting and cleaning, domestic refuse collection and so on all cost money. While I would repeat that local authorities need to be constantly vigilant on this question of achieving the maximum economy in the provision of these services, I am not at all unmindful of the burdens these and the increasing cost of other services place on them.

I am fully sympathetic to the idea of allowing local authorities as much freedom as possible in managing their own affairs and in deciding on their priorities. Various people involved in local government either as members of councils or as officers of local authorities have from time to time made suggestions as to ways in which the local authorities might be assisted to have a more meaningful role in our society. So far as finance is concerned there seems to be a wide measure of agreement that local authorities should themselves have the necessary freedom of action to raise their direct charges for services where they feel it is appropriate that they should do so and that they should have the necessary power to charge directly for certain services where they do not at present have that power. It has also been suggested that additional sources of revenue other than rates should be available to them.

I think everybody associated with our system of local government realises that there is no magic formula which will lead to the discovery of major and hitherto untapped sources of local finance. But what is important is that local authorities should within reason have the necessary freedom to raise additional finance for purposes which they consider of importance locally. I am fully in sympathy with that view. I feel that there should be no unnecessary obstacles placed in the way of local authorities who are genuinely concerned with improving their own localities. If they are prepared to take on themselves the responsibility of raising the necessary funds, even if that means new or increased direct charges, I do not think they should be prevented from doing so. A local authority should be in the best position to judge what local services or amenities are most needed in their own area and to gauge the extent to which the community will be prepared to pay the cost. I hope to be able to help in bringing about that situation in so far as it may be within my control.

In my approach to this question of new or improved sources of revenue I will look closely, over the months ahead, at the many specific suggestions which have already been made. I will also look at the scope for improvement there may be within the system of local finance as it at present operates. I hope to bring forward my own specific proposals in this area very shortly.

One of my early priorities as Minister will be to look seriously at local government structures. Many of us in this House are or have been members of local authorities. Our background in local government enables us to appreciate the excellent work being done by elected members of local authorities throughout the country. They give generously of their time and talents in that tradition of voluntary service which is so much a feature of our local government system. We can appreciate too the work and dedication of the people employed in the local service. We owe it to these men and women, elected members and officials alike, who operate the local government system, and, in particular, to the communities served by that system, to ensure that the structures continue to meet efficiently the increasing demands made on them.

The need for a thorough examination is most acute in the major urban areas. Here the local government system has come under considerable pressure arising from a vastly increased population and an ever-growing demand for services. It is evident, especially in Dublin, that there are serious problems; problems of inner city decline; problems in the provi-infrastructure to support social and economic progress, problems in the provision and management of housing and, perhaps, particular problems arising from a certain lack of a distinctive community identity in large new housing developments where the existing local government organisation may appear rather remote.

I feel it is necessary to give serious consideration to the apparent lack of a local focus in some newly developed areas. This is bad for local democracy and leads to apathy and even to disaffection. In an ideal situation there should be a local community spirit in each local area. There should be a clear appreciation of the existence and identity of the local authority which should be close enough to the people to be real to them.

I will be seeking ways and means of fostering local government and local authorities so that they will be more a reality in the lives of ordinary people. I am having various suggestions on these lines examined and I hope to develop more specific proposals in due course.

In approaching this review of local government structures, in addition to the proposals published in the Government's programme I will take into account the various suggestions for reform which have been made from time to time together with the views put forward by local authorities themselves as well as by interested organisations and individuals.

It would be my intention to approach this review in a pragmatic manner. We must remember that some of our local authority structures were established about a century ago. I will be looking for the things that need changing so as to establish a system tailored for the eighties rather than the nineties. My aim will be to ensure that any changes proposed will bring about real improvements in the standard of the local government services and at the same time preserve and improve the local and democratic aspects of the system.

One of the most important and sensitive areas of the economy in terms of investment, growth expectations and jobs which all Governments must constantly monitor is of course the building industry. As Minister for the Environment I have responsibility at Government level for overseeing the state of the industry. This vital sector of the economy was noticeably depressed in 1980, with output falling by over 6 per cent. This was caused by the economic recession and in particular by a severe drop in private sector investment in the industry. Consequently, the level of direct employment in the industry declined by 5,000 between April and December last year. Overall, I expect output to increase by 5 per cent this year and employment to increase by about 2,000 by the end of the year. The main growth areas in 1981 will be telecommunications and industrial and educational buildings. The Government have increased by £30 million the provision for local authority housing to counteract the sharp decline in activity in this sector; I will refer to this aspect in greater detail later on in my speech.

In tackling the overall problems of the industry, I am anxious to plan on the basis of orderly growth in output and employment. In developing plans, I intend to have close consultation with representatives of the Construction Industry Federation, the Building Materials Federation, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Building Industry Council. In all our interests, working in co-operation it should be possible for us to devise ways and means of smoothening out the peaks and valleys in the industry and ensuring that the levels of apprenticeship intake are satisfactory. Our housing programme must be adequate to meet the requirements of our growing population and priority must be given to the provision of infrastructural services such as roads, telecommunications and sanitary services. To this end, our overall building programme is being closely monitored.

I would now like to speak on housing, which is a vital sector of the building industry. The management of a national housing programme by a Government requires skill, vision, compassion and, perhaps, a little luck. I say skill because housing is a complex area with many competing and interacting demands for available resources. Decisions have to be taken which affect the supply of financial resources for the various types of housing need. The job of good government is to ensure that those whose degree of need is greatest are given priority. Government also needs to have an ability to identify quickly the problem areas in housing whether they arise in the area of direct building or in improvement of the housing stock and to provide or create the climate for the provision of the necessary incentives, financial and otherwise, to ensure that the housing needs so identified can be dealt with quickly and effectively. It is obvious to me in the short time since I became Minister for the Environment that there is room for improvement in the management of the national housing programme and I am confident that measures already taken and to be taken in the months ahead by the Government will secure that improvement.

In the short-term it will be important to inject sufficient capital into the housing programme to ensure that the anticipated completion of 25,500 or so houses this year is improved on immediately. The assessment of national housing requirements will indicate the nature and extent of need in the years ahead and the Government will ensure that the required comprehensive range of aids and incentives will be available to ensure that housing targets are met.

A very important factor in determining the success of a housing strategy is the Government commitment to financing the national housing programme in a comprehensive and common sense fashion. Since assuming office the Government have seen the problems affecting housing and already have taken significant steps to combat the rot and the mis-use of resources which were beginning to set in. I want to outline now the major problem areas and the steps which have been taken already by the Government to attempt to rectify the situation.

In the housing area the most immediate problem is the rescue of the local authority housing programme. I use the word rescue deliberately because the programme was on the verge of a complete collapse arising from the lack of adequate central funds. It is no exaggeration to say that in the absence of additional capital being provided by the Government work on many local authority housing sites would come to a complete half within weeks. In fact, many local authorities would not have re-employed their direct labour force after the builders' holiday fortnight.

The 1981 public capital programme provided £108.5 million for local authority house building. A further £2.5 million was allocated at the end of May bringing the total provision for the year to £111 million. This provision was grossly inadequate compared with the expenditure of £114 million last year. The situation in 1981 was aggravated by the fact that since 1978 there were a series of cuts in real terms in the capital provided annually for local authority housing, the previous administration are most guilty in that sphere. While the wholesale price index for building and construction rose by 39.2 per cent between 1978 and 1980, capital provided in that period rose by only 25.7 per cent; the disparity was even greater in practice as the index does not take account of certain special increases which were substantial during the period. In this connection it is interesting to note that during 1980 building prices generally increased by 20 per cent but average tender prices for the bigger local authority schemes increased over that year by over 30 per cent.

While these cuts in real terms were taking place it appears miraculous that the programme was being maintained at about the same level. But, of course, there was no miracle involved; the plain fact of the matter is that by the end of 1980 debit balances on local authority accounts totalling about £28 million had been built up. What this meant was that more than a quarter of the public capital programme provision for 1981 had to be used to pay off debts already incurred in 1980. The consequence was that less than three-quarters of the £108.5 million provided in the Estimates was available for actual building purposes; the other quarter had to be used to pay off overdrafts that had been previously built up. It was not possible to meet the demands of local authorities for what they considered was necessary to meet their commitments on existing schemes and, of course, the normal practice of making separate allocations for new works programmes had to be abandones. By the middle of this year over 80 per cent of the total capital available had been drawn from the Local Loans Fund and a number of authorities had fully drawn their total allocations for the year. Many local authority managers were faced with the bleak prospect of putting contractors off sites; the alternative was the accumulation of even more crippling debit balances but this was not a viable choice in view of the critical state of local authority and Government finances.

In the matter of the programme itself, by mid-year it was obvious that there was no prospect of achieving the 6,000 completions announced earlier in the year. The prospects now are that completions will not be much above 5,000 and possibly lower. Completions up to 30 April were already down 183 on the same period in 1980 while units in progress were down by a massive 728 on the corresponding date last year. When I became Minister I found that schemes involving 2,200 houses and over 200 sites for private housing were being held up in the Department or were not being started by local authorities because of lack of funds. These and other schemes planned to start later in the year would not have got under way unless extra capital which we provided was provided and the net result of this would be that the number of houses in progress at the end of the year would have fallen to 4,500. This could mean that completions would be as low as 3,000 in 1982.

This then was the daunting prospect that faced me when I took up office. Obviously remedial action was necessary and that action could not be delayed. I immediately put a case to the Government for a substantial extra capital provision to save the programme and I am glad to say that, despite the grave financial crisis, they decided to allocate a further £30 million necessary to keep the schemes going to the end of the year. The Government have authorised a further £16½ million in housing subsidy bringing the total provision for this item in 1981 to over £79 million. This subsidy meets the cost of borrowings by local authorities to provide houses for renting. The need for the extra allocation arises primarily from a regrettable decision in the context of the 1981 budget to under-provide for this item in 1981. The scale of the shortfall was such that it would have placed local authorities in intolerable financial difficulties later this year.

This was in spite of the fact that it was an assessable sum that could be estimated — if that is the right word — to the last penny on 1 January how much was to be paid out during 1981. Yet, it was deliberately omitted from the Book of Estimates, even though it was known that local authorities would have to get their money, so as to try to present a better picture of the finances at the beginning of this year. No wonder the Government changed. In formulating housing policy, it is important to take a critical look at developments which have a significant bearing on our overall housing scheme. Between 1971 and 1979, the total population increased by 13.1 per cent which was the fastest rate of population growth in Europe apart from Turkey and Iceland. But perhaps, even more startling is the fact that the total number of households in Ireland increased by 21.1 per cent during this period.

A very large proportion of the increase in the numbers of households in Ireland can be attributed to a change in the rate of formation of households by the younger age groups rather that to changes in the size and structure of the population. Information to be published by my Department later today shows that 22 per cent of new house borrowers from all agencies in 1980 were single persons not about to marry compared to 19 per cent in 1979, 19 per cent in 1978 and 20 per cent in 1977. A high incidence of single persons not about to marry but who can afford to purchase secondhand houses is also apparent from the statistics.

This development has serious implications for the Exchequer. Clearly, some single persons could readily postpone the purchase of a house because they are adequately housed at present. In the normal course the housing needs of families must take priority. The Government have reviewed the position and have decided that there should be no change in the position relating to the special loans and mortgage subsidies available to categories such as tenants and tenant-purchasers of local authority houses who surrender their premises to the authority and one-parent families. In future, however, in other cases, eligibility for the mortgage subsidy and ordinary local authority house purchase loans will be restricted to married persons and persons about to marry. Single purchasers may obtain approval to the payment of a loan and mortgage subsidy but these payments will not be made until evidence of marriage is available.

I have talked up to now about the role of the Government in the provision of finance for new housing. At this stage it would be remiss of me to let this occasion pass without an acknowledgement of the tremendous achievements in the provision of mortgage finance by the building societies over the years. The societies play a vital role in the Government's housing programme by providing 74 per cent of mortgage finance for private houses. In 1980 they provided 16,900 house loans valued at £269 million consisting of £126 million in respect of 7,800 new houses and £143 million in respect of 9,100 other houses. It is estimated that societies will provide about £300 million in mortgage finance in the current year.

As Deputies are aware the level at which societies pitch their investment rate is of the utmost importance in attracting new funds to enable them to continue to supply such high levels of mortgage finance. In setting their investment rate, societies are conscious of other competitive rates and, for instance, have normally maintained a differential over the minimum deposit rate offered by the associated banks.

Building societies reduced their investment rate from 9 per cent to 8.25 per cent with effect from 1 January 1981 when the minimum bank deposit rate stood at 7.5 per cent. In the event there was a sharp fall in the net inflow of funds to societies from January to April. On 12 May 1981 the associated banks increased their investment and lending rates.

To restore the inflow of money to a level necessary to meet the demand for mortgages, building societies increased their investment rates by 1 per cent from 1 June 1981 until further notice, without increasing their existing mortgage interest rate of 13.15 per cent on the basis of payment of a Government interest subsidy of 1 per cent from that date. The societies decision in the matter arose from a commitment given by the former Minister for the Environment at a meeting on 20 May 1981 with representatives of the Irish Building Societies Association.

Because of the present difficult financial situation which the present Government has been left, we have no alternative but to take measures in order to commence rectifying the situation. It has accordingly been necessary to terminate the subsidy on the building society investment interest rates with effect from 1 September 1981. My Department will be in touch with the societies in this matter without delay. Deputies and indeed the general public will realise that scarce resources must be devoted to areas where there is most need, for example, those who must depend on the local authority for a house. It is for this reason that we have decided to allocate £30 million extra for local authority housing.

I should say that the subsidy was originally introduced about ten years ago and discontinued in 1976. It was reintroduced last year, I think, and operated then for four months. It is operating for only three months this year.

The Government are conscious of the fact that the present overall system of house purchase loans has certain short-comings. This applies particularly to the needs of low to moderate income purchasers and the extent to which finance is provided from public funds. We must not lose sight of the need to tackle the problem of high deposits in some cases, the need to top up loans and the question of trying to establish a better relationship between amounts of loan repayments and total incomes during the repayment periods. For these reasons my Department are having discussions with interested parties with a view to formulating proposals for legislation which would provide for the setting up of a housing finance agency. I hope to have these proposals before the Dáil before the end of the year.

Earlier I indicated it was not enough for the Government to arrange merely for the building of new houses. We must ensure that the existing stock of houses does not deteriorate. For that reason we pointed out in our programme that we will introduce shortly some home improvement schemes. Details will be announced by the Minister of State shortly.

With regard to roads, I am keenly aware of the difficulties being faced by industrialists and others dependent on transport facilities through chronic traffic congestion in cities and towns. A road network that is adequate for the needs of the community also makes a positive contribution towards our costs and helps our export competitiveness. An investment in roads is an essential part of any Government's programme. I am satisfied that we will continue investment in roads at a high level.

Despite the present economic difficulties and the financial problems inherited by the Government, we are determined to do all we can to sustain investment in sanitary services. The lack of adequate piped water and sewerage facilities has for far too long inhibited economic physical development at national and local level. Planning permissions for worthwhile developments are delayed or refused because of insufficient sanitary services. The ability of the IDA to attract industrial investment, particularly water-using and effluent generating industries, is dependent on the existence of adequate water supplies and sewage disposal facilities. The drive to modernise farming must be matched by the continuing progress of the rural piped water supply programmes since water is essential for farm hygiene, livestock production and quality milk production. On my recommendation, the Government have agreed to an additional £3 million to finance the shortfall in the provision made to finance the payment of State subsidies due to local authorities.

The sanitary services programme has an important impact on employment both directly and indirectly. About 85 per cent of the materials and equipment required for the programme is manufactured in Ireland so that the import content is relatively low. The programme plays an important part in maintaining off-site employment in firms producing pipes and treatment plant for the programme. Other direct employment programmes, including the IDA advance factory programme and the housing programme, follow on from the servicing of land for development purposes.

With regard to planning, I am conscious of the necessity of ensuring that development is not inhibited by planning laws while, at the same time, ensuring that the population and the environment are protected. It is accepted by all that snags have arisen from time to time. It will be a priority on my part to see that any wrinkles in the planning laws are ironed out so that development can go ahead but not at the expense of the Environment.

My final comment is with regard to unfinished estates that are causing so much trouble to local authority members and, more especially, to residents of the estates. The Minister of State and I will tackle this as a matter of priority to ensure that people who buy houses in such estates get what they have paid for, namely, a finished estate.

In many ways the people are fortunate that we are sitting for only three days this week because on each of those days we have had a budget. On Tuesday the Minister for Finance made his budget statement with all its inflationary implications so far as the economy and prices were concerned. One of the side effects of that will be the unemployment that will be created. In the newspapers this morning there were announcements regarding increased charges by the ESB and CIE consequent on the budget decisions made on Tuesday. Today we had a further budget statement read out by the Minister for the Environment.

Let us not be under any illusions. We have heard from the Minister the disgraceful decision to remove the mortgage subsidy Fianna Fáil had provided when they were in office to cushion householders from the worst effects of inflation and the decision of the building societies on 1 January to increase their rates. What we have heard today from the Minister means that the Government will terminate their subsidy to the building societies as from 1 September. As a result, every person who has a building society mortgage will be faced with additional costs. This is a disgraceful reneging on a commitment given to the people. Yet, we have had to wait until today to hear about it because the Government did not have the courage to include it in their budget statement on Tuesday. The decision was slipped into the speech of the Minister for the Environment in an effort to hide the effect it will have on mortgage holders. I shall quote from the Minister's statement:

Building societies reduced their investment rate from 9 per cent to 8.25 per cent with effect from 1 January 1981 when the minimum bank deposit rate stood at 7.5 per cent.

The reality behind that short sentence is that I had a series of negotiations with the building societies when I had the honour to hold the post of Minister for the Environment and, following Government pressure at that time, the building societies reduced their interest rates. In his statement the Minister also made the following comment:

To restore the inflow of money to a level necessary to meet the demand for mortgages, building societies increased their investment rates by 1 per cent from 1 June 1981 until further notice, without increasing their existing mortgage interest rate of 13.15 per cent on the basis of payment of a Government interest subsidy of 1 per cent from that date.

Fianna Fáil met that interest subsidy. As a Government we were committed to keeping down the cost of living and to helping the already over-taxed house-holders. In his statement today the Minister said:

It has accordingly been necessary to terminate the subsidy...

What is the necessity to terminate the subsidy? It is the decision of a callous Government who have no interest in householders. It was not mentioned in the policy documents of Fine Gael or the Labour Party that the subsidy would go and it certainly was not included in the "Gaiety Theatre document". Today we are supposed to be discussing the budget statement as announced on Tuesday but in reality there have been other increases since then and they have also to be voted on. By their action today the Government have stabbed the householders in the back. The pages in the Minister's statement from which the above extracts have been quoted are a classic example of reneging on their commitments by an uncaring Government. Throughout the statement of the Minister for the Environment there is a total reneging on commitments given to the electorate at the time of the general election.

On page 33 of their election programme Fine Gael gave a pledge to implement the £4,000 arrangement for first-time house buyers, and the Gaiety Theatre document issued by Labour included that promise. Now both parties are reneging and welching on those commitments. The Minister for the Environment today told us about their proposals for the young population. We should be proud of our young population. We an asset to the community and not a weight around our necks as suggested by the Minister for the Environment. He told us that figures to be published later today will show that 22 per cent of new house borrowers from all agencies in 1980 were single persons. However, he qualified that by saying that a high incidence of single persons not about to marry but who can afford to purchase secondhand houses also will be apparent from the statistics. They are now to lose out on mortgage subsidies. They are young people, and one-quarter of the new house purchasers have been young people investing in the future. They are not to be eligible for mortgage subsidies, according to the Minister for the Environment this morning.

Is it not incredible that a Government should so blatantly renege on commitments to young people? That was not only a pledge by Fine Gael in their election programme but by Labour in the document issued from the Gaiety Theatre.

All this means that there will be an increase in the amount of mortgage repayments. After the enormous impositions in the budget on Tuesday, on the third day of the debate on the budget we have been told of new savage impositions on the taxpayers, further massive increases in ESB charges, 25 per cent, and house mortgage repayments being increased for young people buying houses for the first time.

In their election programme document, Labour promised that they would assist house purchasers through a variety of schemes, including the £4,000 grant scheme on houses up to a value of £40,000. That document was issued less than a month ago, but today we have had the third budget in a week reneging on that. As well, we have clear indications from the Minister for the Environment that new charges will be imposed in the form of domestic taxation. He said a short time ago that in so far as finance is concerned there seems to be a wide measure of agreement that local authorities should themselves have the necessary freedom of action to raise their direct charges for services where they feel it is appropriate that they should do so, and that they should have the necessary power to charge directly for certain services where they do not have that power. Later the Minister said that he is fully in sympathy with the view that local authorities should have that freedom. He said, "If they are prepared to take on themselves the responsibility of raising the necessary funds, even if that means new or increased direct charges, I do not think they should be prevented from doing so".

What are the necessary funds? What-ever they are they will be raised as a percentage of the value of a house, and what is that but rates by another name? The Minister should have told people before the general election that he would encourage the re-introduction of domestic property taxes. His statement here this morning indicates that there is to be a re-introduction of rates and other domestic property taxes because the speech of the Minister for the Environment indicates a clear commitment to the re-introduction of all sorts of domestic property charges which, as I have said, is another name for rates.

The Minister stated clearly that the subsidy on mortgages being paid to 22 per cent of young people buying their homes will be abolished. That means, of course, a tax on repayments. These subsidies were introduced to enable building societies to provide the necesary funds to finance home loans.

(Cavan-Monaghan): Does the Deputy remember the speech he made in Kilkenny when he was talking about planning applications——

The Minister for Fisheries and Forestry will have an opportunity to make a contribution. When he is doing so will he tell me where in the Fine Gael programme or in the Gaiety Theatre document I will find a statement to the effect that mortgages would be increased and that there would not be a welching on Fine Gael's home loans commitment? I am sorry the Minister has left the House, but I am sure he will answer those points when he makes his contribution to this debate. The Irish people would like information on them.

The whole tone of the debate on this budget has been deflationary, which will cause unemployment. There is no incentive for employment. There is no incentive for young people. There is not even compensation for the less well-off sections of the community. I want to talk about social welfare for a moment. This blue document entitled Principal Features of Budget presented to Dáil Eireann in Tuesday, 21 July 1981, by Mr. John Bruton, T. D., Minister for Finance, was handed out by the Minister after his budget speech. It is the all-time classic document of a cynical Government, an uncaring, unfeeling Government. Increases in social welfare benefits are announced in this document. They are the goodies under the heading Government Programme, Social Welfare Improvements.

I should like to refer to some of the social welfare improvements included in the document. For example, there is the supplementary allowance payable to blind persons in receipt of a blind pension. Each of the first two children of a blind pensioner over 21 will get an increase of 0.05p. The blind pensioner over 21 will get an increase of 0.25p. I know the Minister of State who is sitting in the House. He is a former Lord Mayor. I know him from his constituency work and his work as a member of the local authority. When he was Lord Mayor he showed concern for the less well-off sections of the community. I should like to ask him what will 25p purchase today?

Each of the first two children of that blind pensioner will get the magnificent sum, absolute wealth untold and unknown, of 0.05p. This increase will be given from October, not from today when the charges are going on and not from 1 September when we have a 50 per cent increase in VAT. They are getting this princely sum. It is like the arrival of the three wise men bearing gifts from the cast except that gifts are coming from Meath. Each subsequent child — so that they can get together and put down a deposit on an ice cream — will get another 0.05p. It would not buy an ice cream. It would not buy a lollipop. It is the original Meath version of a deposit on an ice-cream.

This comes from a caring Government of which the Labour Party are members. When they were in Opposition — and they will be in Opposition for a long time when the Irish people get a chance at them again — last January when we were debating the budget brought in by the Fianna Fáil Government and giving a 25 per cent increase in social welfare benefits, they criticised that as not being enough and as not being adequate. Now they are giving a deposit on an ice cream to the children of blind pensioners as and from 1 October.

That is not the only ludicrous increase. Under the infectious diseases maintenance allowance the increase for dependants other than the spouse is 0.20p. Each of the children of recipients of unemployment assistance and supplementary welfare allowances will get 0.15p to compensate for the increase in inflation of over 6 per cent envisaged in this budget. There will be joy throughout the land on 1 October when they get that 0.15p from Santa Clause in the person of the Minister from Meath. They would have the good grace to blush if they had any feeling for the Irish people. I could go on about the increases of 5p, 15p and 25p but I think I have said enough.

Talking about a caring Government I want to refer to the Minister's statement last Tuesday. He said:

Substantial savings will also be achieved by the Departments of Justice, Environment, Education, Defence and others.

Every Government, every businessman, and we in our own lives should cut out unnecessary expenditure. From my experience in the Department of the Environment I know there was no unnecessary expenditure there. Probably there was room for improvement in some areas but not of the type we have heard of today. One area on which I thought this Government would not renege was the Bundoran fire inquiry. After the tragedy in Artane in February last, as Minister for the Environment, on behalf of the Government, I announced before lunch of the day of the tragedy the setting up of a public inquiry. The terms of reference were debated in the Dáil on the Tuesday. They were questioned here together with other matters relating to the tragedy.

In that debate the tragedy that had occurred at the Central Hotel in Bundoran on 8 August last was also mentioned, and the need for an inquiry into it. At that time that tragedy was being investigated by the police and documents were being forwarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions. The Government felt that, pending the decision of the director with regard to possible prosecutions, they should take no action. As soon as the director made his decision on the papers before him, a decision which said there was no grounds for prosecution, Fianna Fáil immediately said there would be a public inquiry. The terms of reference were published and were on the Order Paper before the last day of the sitting. There was a great cry for that inquiry from Deputy FitzGerald. The then spokesman on behalf of Fine Gael called for the inquiry. Deputy White, a man whom I felt was entitled to some recognition by the Taoiseach for the work he put in on behalf of his party and who should have got a State car but who like others, was let down very badly, made demands for a public inquiry. Spokesmen on behalf of the Labour Party demanded an inquiry, as did Deputy Browne. We said that as soon as the decision of the Director of Public Prosecutions was made known we would decide whether or not to hold an inquiry. We decided to have one.

On Tuesday of this week I asked the Minister for the Environment if he intended to proceed with the holding of the public inquiry into the fire at the Central Hotel in Bundoran on 8 August 1980 and, if so, its terms of reference and when he expected the first sitting to take place. The Minister answered a number of other questions I had put down. He finished with the files and immediately propped out of the front row and left his very competent Minister of State to reply on his behalf. I do not mean any disrespect to the Minister of State, but, since it was an issue his party had shown such condern for when in Opposition, I thought he would have felt himself bound to reply. Much to my amazement the reply I received was that the matter was presently under consideration and a decision would be announced in due course. I hope it is only my suspicious mind, but I have a feeling that that refers to what the Minister stated on Tuesday —"substantial savings will also be achieved by the Departments of Justice, Environment, Education, Defence and others."

I should like the Minister for Finance to clarify that the inquiry is not being dropped because of financial constraints and that the inquiry, which we in Government made a commitment to proceed with and announced the terms of reference of, will be proceeded with. He should also clarify that the substantial savings do not include a saving by reneging — it is something they are doing on all fronts — on holding this inquiry. That would be sinking to a level which would be shocking even for this administration.

We had an announcement today — the third budget in a week — by the Minister for the Environment that, as and from 1 September, the 1 per cent subsidy on mortgages will be removed and they will increase immediately. We had the reneging on the £3,000 subsidy to be paid to first-time house purchasers who are single people. About 22 per cent of all new houses bought would be eligible for the mortgage subsidy. I assume this applies also to the £1,000 grant.

We had a clear indication from the Minister for the Environment that he will gladly encourage the imposition of domestic rates or charges of some kind or other. These budgetary decisions we did not get from the Minister for Finance or the Taoiseach but from the Minister for the Environment. They are major decisions which will affect every building society mortgage holder. The House deserves a clear explanation of the reneging by the administration on the commitments in their policy document and the Gaiety Theatre programme. Great play was made by the Minister in regard to the position of unfinished estates. He waxed eloquent about the need to improve the condition of these. All the Minister has to do is implement the scheme which is already there. I introduced it a number of months ago and it will meet this problem. I agree that there is a need to tackle the problem of unfinished estates. He does not have to come into the House and announce it as if it were a new idea of his. It has been on the cards for some time.

I should like to know the present position of the decentralisation programme which we were pushing so hard. The Minister for the Environment should clarify the clear policy decision made by Fianna Fáil that An Foras Forbartha should be transferred to Cork as a major boost not only to the policy of decentralisation but to the revitalisation of the inner Cork city area which is in need of improvement. I should like the Minister for the Environment to clarify this position for us by way of public statement since he will not have the opportunity during the remaining stages of this debate of letting us know the position. I should like him to clarify the position regarding the commitment we had to the decentralisation programme and in particular to the transfer as soon as possible to Cork of An Foras Forbartha and to the building that was earmarked by us for that body.

Debate adjourned.
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