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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 17 Nov 1981

Vol. 330 No. 12

Private Members' Business. - Crime Prevention: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann is of opinion that the extent and level of crime, violence and lawlessness in this country at present amounts to a serious emergency and calls on the Government to undertake immediately, a comprehensive national campaign to deal with the situation as a matter of extreme urgency and for the purpose of this campaign to: (1) involve local authorities, voluntary organisations and education authorities, (2) provide all the equipment and resources necessary, and (3) recruit adequate numbers of Gardaí and other personnel.

This motion in my name and in that of the Chief Whip of my party is, very probably, one of the most important Private Members' motions that will be discussed in the lifetime of this Dáil. I am certain that there is a great measure of agreement with and acceptance of the fact that the extent and level of crime, violence and lawlessness in this country at present amounts to a serious emergency situation and that some new approach, some new thinking and some new methods must be introduced and got under way immediately if we are successfully to protect society from the criminal. Crime, violence and lawlessness, and now drug abuse, have reached crisis proportions and unfortunately all the indications are that the situation will get much worse in the years ahead unless we go to the very root of the problem at this stage and launch an all-out attack on everything and anything in society that contributes to the creation of a criminal.

During the past decade substantial changes have occurred here in the nature of known crime as well as its quantity. Over all crime has increased from 30,756 in 1970 to over 70,000 in 1980, a massive increase of about 140 per cent. We have no option but to think of new ways of approaching this situation. We never had all the State agencies or State supported bodies working together at any given time in dealing with crime. We were incorrect in leaving all the burden of the fight against crime on the shoulders of the Garda Síochána. Despite their best efforts the Garda Síochána could not hope to do more than contain the crime level, for reasons outside their own control. Indeed, I am sure every Member of this House is proud of our police force. Ever since they were established they have worked well; they have been noted for their integrity and efficiency and their superhuman efforts to protect people and their property. Indeed, they are asked to perform duties for which they are not properly organised from the point of view of equipment. We have had evidence of that in recent months. I say this at this stage because the last Government gave a firm commitment of acceptance to the Garda of the recommendations of the Commissioner's report to me as Minister for Justice in August 1980 on the review of plans dealing with prevention of and protection against armed robberies and more serious crimes. I would hope that there would be no backing away from this commitment. The moneys must be found to give the Garda the facilities which are needed urgently to do the work which is expected of them. I will not develop this point now. I merely mention it to give ample warning to the Minister of where we, on this side of the House, stand on this matter.

The Garda Commissioner's report on crime for 1980 was published earlier this year and was presented to my successor. It makes frightening and disturbing reading. It shows another dramatic increase in indictable offences, almost 13 per cent over the previous year. There was an increase of over 5,000 offences in the larcenies group over the previous year and there were 73,000 indictable offences recorded for the year. I understand that the unofficial figures for 1981 show another huge increase in this area. It will be freely admitted in this House that the accuracy of the figures contained in the Garda Commissioner's report is often questioned because many crimes are not reported to the Garda.

There is obviously a crisis situation here that urgently requires our attention. In his report the Garda Commissioner is ringing the warning bells for all of us to see for ourselves the magnitude of the task facing the Garda Síochána. He emphasises that the Garda Síochána are but one agency with responsibility for the maintenance of public standards of behaviour as exemplified by the law and says that only a determined effort by all those with such responsibilities will stem the increasing degree of disrespect for good order in our society. He warns of the urgent necessity of having the full weight of public opinion and action turned against criminals of all classes. These are the words of the Garda Commissioner in his introductory remarks to the crime report of 1980.

This report shows that 57 per cent of all indictable crimes recorded — and that is a total of almost 42,000 offences — takes place in the Dublin Metropolitan area. The report goes on to show that 70 per cent of all indictable crimes — and that is 70 per cent of 73,000 — were recorded in the Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford city areas. This pinpoints the difficulties that we must pay attention to. On deeper study of crime reports for the different years it is shown that certain areas have higher crime rates than others. It is also shown by other studies that persons convicted of crimes have similar backgrounds. Unfortunately there are many families living in most dreadful housing conditions.

There are large families with up to eight or ten children living in a few rooms, perhaps one or two, without basic amenities such as bathrooms and toilets and, tragically, the father and mother are unemployed and have no hope whatsoever of employment for themselves and they despair for the future of their children. Many of the children in these areas cannot read or write at school leaving age. There are not many amenities provided for these children. Admittedly some progress has been made but far too little. Some amenities have been provided but what was provided came too late. It is a fair criticism of our society to say that the minimum is being done for people in areas where the maximum help is urgently required. Unfortunately, they are nobody's children and have no hope for the future. It is inevitable that many of these people drift into crime. Surely their environment is a breeding ground for young criminals?

There is information available to show that many people living in areas such as I have described believe that stealing is quite permissible, providing one is not caught. They readily admit this. They also believe that, in a case of necessity, it is permissible to steal, but they decide what a case of necessity is and when it would arise. It is also fair to say that these socially deprived people are what society has made them. They are the products of their environment and the predictability of their entry into crime is as sure as night follows day.

I am talking about crisis areas which merit emergency attention of the sort I am advocating in the Private Members' motion. These areas are readily identified from the Commissioner's report. They can be identified from newspaper reports on crime and every Deputy can readily identify areas I am talking about. These areas deserve a different type of attention than they have got up to now. A new approach and a more fundamental view should and must be taken of the difficulties in existence. I am strongly advocating a preventative approach to crime at this stage. I am advocating a comprehensive national campaign involving local authorities, because of their planning, development and housing responsibilities to people in the areas. I am advocating the involvement of educational authorities because of the very special needs of the people in these areas which are not being catered for at present in the way they should be. I am advocating also the involvement of the industrial promotional and training authorities because of their responsibilities to provide and train people for employment. The health and welfare agencies should also be involved because of the enormous role which they have to play.

The voluntary organisations must also be involved. It is fair to say they are already involved, doing tremendous work for the deprived of the areas. At a later stage I hope to detail the type of involvement with voluntary organisations and make a case for greater involvement by them and greater financing of them from the Exchequer, so that their work may be carried out on a greater scale than at present.

The national campaign which I am calling for would surely be the basis from which all Government Departments and agencies, working together with the voluntary organisations, could, for the first time, work together in trying to deal with the root problem of crime as we know it today. By doing it as I have suggested, we would be tackling all the reasons which help to make criminals. This can only be done and the success of this approach can only be assured if it has the full backing and active support of the Government. The underprivileged of those areas only make national headlines normally as a result of their criminal actions. By then it is almost too late to help them because the majority of people in our prisons are habitual returnees. If ten or 15 years ago, we had had the foresight, wisdom, courage and interest to do what I am now advocating, we would not have the crime rate which exists today. The Garda Síochána have a tremendous input in this area, in crime prevention and crime detection. They are fighting a lone battle on our behalf. Society is deeply indebted to them for waging a constant war on crime on our behalf.

This year, during my Ministry, improvements in Garda services to the community were introduced. One of these improvements, the increasing of street patrols and Garda surveillance, has been extremely successful and greatly welcomed by all. Every Member of the House will agree that more gardaí on patrol has a deterrent effect on criminals. I know that is the considered opinion of the Garda Commissioner. I presume it was still his opinion when he requested permission to recruit an additional 2,000 members so that this type of Garda and other service which would help defeat criminal activity could be given. We are at present recruiting 1,000 new members to the Garda Síochána. There is a recruiting campaign going on and anxiety is being felt on this side of the House — and on the Government side — at the slow way in which the campaign is moving. When the present 1,000 recruits are trained, there is a further commitment to an additional 1,000 new recruits. This figure would bring us to the maximum allowed by law to the Garda Commissioner as a result of the existing ranks order which we passed in the House about 12 months ago.

I am not happy with existing methods of recruiting which I consider to be painfully slow. I respectfully suggest to the Minister for Justice that there is urgent need for reorganisation of recruiting methods which must be dealt with as a matter of urgency. I said to the Minister last week in the course of the debate on the Estimate that we will have to recruit and train the people that the Commissioner has requested and which he has been given permission to recruit as quickly as possible. From what the Minister said last week, it appears that, even with the best will in the world, only 300 recruits will complete their training in Templemore in 1982. Can we afford the luxury of such delays in recruiting new members to the Garda force — new members who are so urgently required — that at the end of 1982 the Garda Commissioner will have only an additional 300 newly-trained members? If this is so we must recognise the fact that those 300 members would also have to provide personnel to cover positions vacated by retiring members of the force or members lost through wastage, which would amount to 150 for 1982. Therefore, the commissioner would have only an additional 150 extra members at the end of 1982 to help him with the serious problem which exists in the curtailment of crime.

Even the additional net increase of 150 must be broken down to see what real strength the commissioner would get from that figure in having people available for work. Because of organisational practices in operation within the force, the net increase of 150 new members can mean that only approximately 35 would be available for full-time duty at any given time. Any Deputy from an urban constituency could honestly and justly request a full number for any Garda station in his own constituency and make a proper case for it.

I was somewhat thrown aback at the mention by the Minister that only 300 gardaí would complete their training in Templemore in 1982. I had plans, resulting from discussions with the Garda Commissioner and officials of the Department at that time, for the training of upwards of 900 recruits in 1982 and that all of these would work in the metropolitan areas. Circumstances have pushed that aim aside. With the crime rate soaring as it is, a very special and determined effort must be made immediately to give the Garda Commissioner the manpower he so urgently requires. This necessary manpower should be given to him immediately and not in annual instalments of 150 gardaí or twice that number. New thinking is required here as a matter of urgency.

In Government the Minister for Justice must be able to overrule the crippling, petty restrictions which are being imposed on him by the Minister for the Public Service and which are preventing officer posts in the Garda Síochána from being filled, posts which urgently require filling and which have been vacant since 21 July last. It is very easy for someone in the Department of the Public Service to say that 20 or 30 vacancies at sergeant level should not be filled, but that does immense harm and damage to the morale of the Garda force. We know from the newspapers that the Minister for Justice had to meet the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors recently to hear their grievances on the effect which this embargo has on the morale of their members. It was reported that the Minister gave this deputation a courteous hearing, but said that he would not have an answer for them for a week or two afterwards. In not filling these posts he is probably saving about £4 per post per week, because the difference between the maximum of the garda grade and the minimum of the sergeant's is not great. Indeed, it has always been a bone of contention between the sergeant members and the gardaí that the differential between the two ranks is small.

The sergeants who were promoted 18 months or so ago knew what to expect — service on the Border. Having completed their service, there was a gentleman's agreement between the commissioner and the association that they would return to the areas from whence they were promoted, but that has not been done. This is a petty restriction which I would encourage the Minister for Justice to meet head on in Government with his colleague, the Minister for the Public Service, telling him that in the interests of security, of good police work, of having a force which will be on its toes, ever vigilant and knowing the right method for combating the criminal, there is no room for the petty thinking of the Minister for the Public Service in this area.

The Garda Commissioner could well do with an additional 5,000 members in the Garda Síochána if he is to give the services to our community which are being demanded of him. The taxpayers are prepared to pay for these services. I assure my successor in office of my support for him any time he comes to this House seeking money to pay these additional gardaí.

The motion which we propose here, if implemented, will be the start of a major breakthrough against the criminal elements in this country. The present Minister and every member of his party could tell this House, if they wished, the position in regard to crime in the areas which they represent. We learn the situation when we read the papers, not just the evening papers, which cover the Dublin scene, but the front pages of today's Cork Examiner, where the president of Cork Chamber of Commerce, Mr. McHenry, calls for support for the Gardaí in their ever-demanding task of maintaining law and order in Cork. He mentions the recent spate of malicious and stupid damage caused by hooligans in Cork city centre and says that that is a warning which the public can only ignore at their peril. He asks if Cork city is to join the growing number of urban jungles in which it is not safe to walk or to leave property unprotected. According to the president of the Cork Chamber of Commerce, that situation exists in Cork today.

Around last April, street patrols were introduced, on the suggestion of the Garda Representative Association, as a method to be tried in an attempt to defeat the street criminal and the vandal, to protect old people, particularly in their homes, but also to protect their homes when they leave to do their shopping. It should be recorded in the Department of Justice that the Garda Commissioner was urged to instruct his chief superintendents to take on as many men and women as possible to patrol the areas where there was a need for it. When the first suggestions came in as to the manpower which would be required, having listened to Deputies in this House and to deputations — which was one of the more enjoyable tasks of my work as Minister for Justice — I decided that not enough was being done, that they were being overcautious in not making enough demands on me as Minister for Justice. I suggested that they should have a further look at the situation and make sure that every superintendent and chief superintendent knew that he was being told by the Minister of the day to put the manpower on the street to protect the citizens and their property and see to it that people could go about their normal business. I believe that this was a success. However, if it was a success then, according to the president of the Cork Chamber of Commerce, it was not at all a success in Cork city.

Would the Minister, when he has an opportunity, tell the House whether or not demands for increased street patrols were made by the chief superintendent of Cork city? If there were, were they refused? If the chief superintendent did not look for these extra patrols, why have we a situation, as reported in today's Cork Examiner, in which the Garda Commissioner told his chiefs in the different divisions that the manpower required by them to protect the people would be given to them on application? That being the situation, there is something radically wrong in the city of Cork. If the demand was not made, why was it not made? It surely could be an indictment on the Garda chiefs in that city that they were not in touch with the situation as outlined by the president of the Cork Chamber of Commerce who calls for support for the Garda. Of course everybody will support the Garda but unless there are sufficient numbers of men on the ground pious statements asking the people to support the force are no more than wishful thinking. In the sort of situation we are talking about what the Garda need is the support of their fellow members in terms of numbers.

Within the ambit of the Department of the Environment there are a working group who have been dealing with the problems of the inner city but I fear that this group have not been as active as they should have been. If their work was activated to a feverish pitch, activated with persons who would be dedicated to dealing with the problems in this area, they could do tremendous work. I am aware that other bodies are involved in different projects in the city-centre area. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle in his capacity as Minister of State in the Department of Education in the last Government did tremendous work by way of the provision of moneys under the Youth Employment Scheme. During that time the inner city projects were allotted funds to the extent of £30,000 in 1977 and that amount was almost doubled in 1978. The figure was doubled again in 1979 when it was £122,000 and for the earlier part of 1980 the amount was well up on average in terms of what was being done. There were many worth-while projects being undertaken in this area by voluntary groups. Such groups in the context of the type of national campaign we are calling for can do tremendous work and offer much help to those families who are most in need and also in keeping young people out of trouble.

Is it not a shame that within 100 yards of O'Connell Street, in a street that is no longer than 400 or 500 yards, there are approximately 5,000 people who have no such facilities as a shop, cinema, playground or anything of that kind? From now on at least this Parliament and those with responsibility for the planning and development of such areas must make it their business to ensure that such a situation will never be repeated. It is not right to expect the children of the poor and the deprived to keep out of trouble when the only pastimes they have are stealing cars and snatching handbags. I was taken aback sometime ago when, on speaking with some people and children in an area of this city, they admitted readily that it was as natural for them to steal cars for joyrides or to snatch handbags as it was for children in other areas to go to swimming pools or to play football or tennis. This is a very sad reflection on society. There is no point in placing the blame in any one place. Society as a whole have a lot to answer for in this regard. I am calling on the Minister to convince the Government that something must be done about the problem. If we take the necessary steps the role of the Garda in crime prevention and detection will be strengthened considerably. As of now there is no light at the end of the tunnel for the Garda. The commissioner in his report for 1980 sounds that warning bell loud and clear. Apart from that the figure of 73,000 reported indictable crimes for 1980 as against about 24,000 in 1970 is proof that we are not winning the battle against the ordinary criminal.

I have talked about crime prevention. I know that the Garda will deal with the area of crime. They are to be complimented on their successes in this area and in particular on the major successes they have had in dealing with the more serious type of crime — armed robberies. To that extent the period from about May 1980 up to the middle of this year was good but I would urge the Minister to impress on the Garda the fact that they must be constantly on the alert against the armed criminal and that we must not again have the sort of situation that existed in the seventies regarding the number of bank robberies that took place in those years. In 1980 and early 1981 we made a major breakthrough in dealing with this type of crime particularly in the Dublin area where the majority of them took place. I am sure that the Minister is as alarmed as I am that in the past four or five months there seems to be an upsurge in this area of crime. The Garda can deal best with this situation by being ever-vigilant and alert.

I was very upset on reading the report of an interview given by the Minister for Justice in the magazine Horizon, the publication of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors. I envied the Minister that fine interview. He could hardly have written better himself. I was never given the opportunity by any association to come across so well as was the case of the Minister in that instance. In the interview the Minister is reported as having made particular reference to the aerial wing which was part of the requirement of the Garda Commissioner. The Minister said that no proper evaluation had been conducted prior to the commitment having been entered into by the previous Government and he said that he had asked for this evaluation to take place for the purpose of ascertaining whether the case for an aerial wing had been made and whether it would be more appropriate to make helicopters available to the Garda through the Air Corps. He went on to say that consideration must be given to the enormous expense of building new hangars and to the provision of new maintenance facilities, pilot training and so on. The Minister said that his concern was to give to the Garda the most realistic and effective way of operating. There is nobody in the Department capable of evaluating the proposal of the commmssioner on the question of whether the Garda should have fixed-wing aircraft or helicopters. In saying that I include the Minister. It is because we did not have any expertise available to us in this area that the commissioner together with some of his most senior men, senior officials of the Department, a representative from the Air Corps and myself visited police forces in other countries to discuss the matter with them.

Hear, hear.

We were convinced that the Garda should have their own aerial wing. There were strong and definite indicators from all the police forces we met — and they are the only evaluating bodies on whom we can depend — that this was the course we should follow. The Garda are in the business of finding the criminal. The Garda Commissioner is the only professional in this area and he has requested that he be given an aerial wing. I trust that the Minister will take the same personal interest in this question as I took. If he is genuine in saying that he will give the Garda whatever means they require to deal with the criminal, he should do so immediately. There is no question of providing additional hangars or airports. There is no reason for the unit not to be contained in a separate section at Baldonnel Airport. If the Garda consider that this aerial wing is what they should have, they should have it in their own right, operating it themselves rather than being dependent on any other agency to provide them with the service.

I sincerely hope that the Minister will accept this motion. The House would be united behind him in trying out new ways to deal with the criminal and to help defenceless persons in their homes. I am thinking of old people who are living in a state of mortal fear that if they leave their homes they will be ransacked. It has been proved that the number of criminals is on the increase and this party will give every help to the Minister to protect our citizens.

I welcome this very timely motion because the level of crime, violence and lawlessness is such as to cause the Government the most grevious concern. However, the reference in the motion to a serious emergency needs some clarification because it is not clear whether the Opposition are proposing to the Dáil that an emergency be declared. The Government would only resort to the declaration of an emergency if the tide of events were such as to leave them no alternative course.

This motion must be dealt with under two headings, namely, subversive crime, violence and lawlessness and non-subversive crime, violence and lawlessness. Both categories are linked in that much of non-subversive crime is of the copycat variety, based on the outrageous violence of subversives.

To deal with subversive crime without reference to the funeral which took place in Dundonald earlier today would be unthinkable. This was but one of over 2,000 such funerals in the North since 1969 and was one of several such funerals today. The body interred was that of a democratically elected member of parliament which makes his murder that much more horrific and the potential consequences that much more explosive. To the widow, family, colleagues and friends of the late Robert Bradford our sympathy may not mean much but nonetheless we express it with sincere and heavy hearts. His murder took place outside our jurisdiction but it is yet another event in a wave of subversive violence common to North and South alike. This terrible event, when coupled with the attempted assassination almost simultaneously of the British Attorney General in London, indicates a very serious escalation of violence by subversive organisations. No Government in any State can be expected to sit back and allow this trend to continue. No Government want to be provoked into a counter escalation of security measures but no Government worth their salt will baulk at whatever measures are deemed necessary to defeat this new attack on democracy. However, if we in the South have anything to learn from the terrible experience in the North it is that no extra numbers of police or soldiers will defeat crime, violence and lawlessness without the total support of the community they serve.

This brings me to the matter of recruiting more and more gardaí and I want to take up a point made by Deputy Collins when he indicated that he had plans to recruit 900 people in one year. There is no record in my Department of the existence of any such plans. The maximum number of gardaí which can be recruited in any one year is 600 by virtue of the fact that Templemore training centre cannot take more than 300 at a time and the course length is almost six months. Even that number could be take expense of all refresher courses. Allowing for normal refresher courses, there is a maximum provision in Templemore for 240 recruits at a time or 480 in a year. Allowing for the fact that 150 gardaí will leave the force or die or retire, the maximum number by which the Garda can be increased is about 300. This is what we intend to do. For Deputy Collins to talk about an extra 900 recruits is absolute effrontry because he did not even provide the money for wages for November and December at levels pertaining in January of this year. I have had to provide that money.

Deputy Collins also mentioned that his Government had decided to increase the level of the force by 2,000. When was that decision taken? It was signed by the then Taoiseach on 19 June 1981 in the interregnum between the election and the change of Government. The incoming Government were to pay for it as well as the wages which had not been provided for existing gardaí. They did not say that it would take seven years to increase Garda strength by 2,000, given the recruiting capacity of Templemore. It was dishonest.

We have decided that Templemore will be filled to the brim with recruits as early as possible in the new year. The recruiting process is going on and the interviews will not be over until January. This is a matter for the Civil Service Commission, not the Department of Justice. In addition to these extra recruits, I have provided, with the authority of the Government, an extra 75 per cent for Garda overtime over and above what was provided by Deputy Collins in the 1981 Estimates.

The lesson we must learn from the North is that extra gardaí and soldiers on the streets will not be successful unless they have the total support of the community. The total dependence on the recruiting of more and more gardaí is the soft option of a society which has opted out of its own responsibilities. That is why this Government are determined to set up a police authority and community — Garda liaison councils so as to involve the community at large in the drive to defeat crime. These, together with an independent complaints tribunal, should provide scope for the maximum interaction and trust between the Garda and the community as a whole.

To establish a sound basis for this debate I propose to give the House some crime statistics. The latest published report of the Garda Commissioner for the year 1980 shows that the number of indictable offences was 72,782. This represented a 13.6 per cent increase on the corresponding figures for 1979. A total of 29,017 indictable offences were detected in 1980 and this was a detection rate of 39.9 per cent which represented a slight decrease on the previous year. In the Dublin metropolitan area 41,778 indictable crimes, or 57.4 per cent of the total, were recorded. In the rest of the State the figure was 31,004 or 42.6 per cent. The corresponding figures for 1979 were 36,156 or 56.4 per cent in the case of the DMA and 27,101 or 43.6 per cent in the case of the rest of the State. The detection rate in 1980 for the DMA was 34.1 per cent and for the rest of the State 47.6 per cent.

These figures show the disturbing demensions of crime in our community and illustrate the magnitude of the task facing the Garda Síochána. It would be wrong for the idea to go forth that we have a crisis on our hands in regard to crime. This would be tantamount to saying that law and order have broken down in this country. Thankfully we are not in that situation or anywhere approaching it. The vast majority of our people are law abiding citizens who adhere to our traditional standards of respect and decency. It is only a small minority who are contributing to the violence and vandalism. In making these remarks I am not in any way trying to play down the seriousness of the crime problem. Any deterioration in the crime situation is a matter of deep concern to me, as Minister for Justice, and to the Government.

We are living in a world of rapid economic and social changes and it has been the experience the world over that these changes are accompanied by criminal activity. Moreover, not only has crime increased in numerical terms but in some respects the types of crime have changed. Violence has become increasingly prevalent and has aggravated other kinds of offences. Although the misuse of drugs has been a criminal offence in all countries for many years, there is no comparison between the drug situation which faced the previous generation and that facing young people today. The development of air transport facilities in particular and the easing of frontier formalities have facilitated the development of organised crime and drug trafficking on an international level.

The Garda Síochána clearly are facing a growing challenge. However, I have every confidence that with the support of the Government, which I assure them they have in full, and with a harnessing of the evident goodwill towards the force of the general public, the Garda will meet the challenge with success. The public can make an extremely important contribution by helping the Garda in their task of preventing and detecting crime. It is important that the public should become aware that crime prevention is in everybody's interest and is everybody's responsibility and that the overall solution to criminality is one for society as a whole. I want to underline and reiterate that every citizen, young or old, has a role in crime prevention and in crime detection. This is particularly true of parents when it comes to their offspring. Considerable lack of parental control is responsible for a lot of juvenile crime. I do not want to say that every juvenile criminal has bad parents because I know many children who have strayed off the mark through no fault of their parents, but there are many parents whose negligence has directly led to the crimes of their offspring. Many parents appear to have abdicated their responsibility in this respect, whether it be through fear of their children or simply through negligence.

There is now more property available to the criminals and it is quite clear that the public take little care of their property. For example, one area where the public can very easily help is in regard to larceny from unattended vehicles. This type of crime accounted for no less than 20 per cent of the total crime in the country in 1980. The crime statistics would certainly look a lot better if the public took common-sense precautions with their property.

Another area of great concern, to which I have already referred briefly, is the question of drugs. I know the commissioner shares my concern about this problem and that the matter is receiving a great deal of Garda attention. An important aspect of the Garda approach to the problem is to liaise with all statutory and voluntary bodies in countering the evil of drug abuse. In particular, selected members are glad to avail of requests to give lectures to various organisations on the problem. These groups include doctors, students, pharmacists, custom officers, prison officers, junior chambers, religious groups, scouting organisations, Irish Countrywomen's Association branches, ladies' clubs and residents associations. To date this year 150 such lectures have been given in Dublin alone. It is the aim of the Garda that no effort will be spared to eliminate this grave threat to society.

As I announced recently, the strength of the permanent Drug Squad in Dublin, Cork and Limerick has been substantially increased. The commissioner has also made important organisational changes by establishing an administrative unit on drugs at Garda headquarters and also a special investigation unit for international drug trafficking. This special unit has developed close working ties with international agencies involved in combating drug trafficking. Great emphasis has been placed on training members of the force in the prevention and detection of drug offences. I feel these training courses are very valuable. Apart from the basic training in drug investigation which every new member receives — I want to emphasise that every new member of the Garda Síochána receives this — advanced training courses are also provided at Garda headquarters. The objective of the advanced courses is to provide in each Garda division a substantial number of members trained in the latest techniques. It is, therefore, important to emphasise that the Drug Squad are not facing this problem alone but that their good work is ably augmented by other members with advanced training and by the force generally.

I am satisfied that this will continue to result in very effective action being taken against drug trafficking. The Drug Squad have built up excellent relations with all sections of the community and there is excellent information forthcoming from the public. Parents are continually calling to the Drug Squad offices at Dublin Castle for help and advice, which is willingly given. It is my fervent wish that pushers and traffickers will receive the full rigours of the law.

Two further points I would like to emphasise in relation to the problem of drugs are, firstly, that the problem of drug abuse is primarily a social problem and in the long term it cannot adequately be met by other than a community response. Police action is necessarily directed at activities such as drug pushing. It is important that the community be conscious of the growing incidence of drug abuse in our society. Secondly, I do not want to give the impression that the Garda Síochána are the only agency involved in making detection. The custom authorities are very much to the fore in dealing with this problem. My information is that they have staff who are both highly trained and very committed in this area.

I would like to say before I leave the drug problem, which is at the root of so much crime today and at the root of so much human misery, that in no other area are the Garda so equipped to be helpful to the public than in this area. I urge all parents, brothers, sisters, teachers, relatives or friends of those who are hooked on drugs or in danger of being hooked on drugs, to go to the Drug Squad who will be as helpful as possible. Their attitude will be one of trying to help the person concerned to get away from drugs and get off drugs rather than prosecuting the person concerned.

With regard to the specific measures mentioned in the motion, I would refer the Deputies, first of all, to the Government's policy document which was published shortly before the Government took office. As indicated in that document, one of the measures which the Government intend to introduce in order to tackle the problem of crime and vandalism is to establish Garda community relations councils in order to secure greater community involvement in crime prevention. As long ago as 1976 a start was made on improving Garda relations with the public. At that time an inspector was appointed in each district in the Dublin Metropolitan Area to act as community liaison officers on a part-time basis. A further step towards improving Garda community relations was taken in 1978 when a community relations section was set up at Garda headquarters. In December last as Deputy Collins will be aware — and it is only right I should acknowledge that this was during the term of office of the previous Government — a sergeant was assigned full-time to crime prevention and community relations work in each Garda division outside the Dublin Metropolitan Area.

Since taking office I have been in touch with the Garda Commissioner about the need for greater crime prevention measures, and specifically about the establishment of Garda community relations councils. I have been informed that reports from the Crime Prevention Community Relations Officers show that they are increasingly involved with the statutory and voluntary local bodies as well as giving advice and assistance to individual members of the public. It is generally accepted they are making an important contribution to crime prevention and to fostering better relations with the public.

The specific proposal to establish Garda community relations councils is at present being examined by the Garda authorities in the light of the operation and experience of similar bodies elsewhere. Deputies will appreciate that the specific structure in terms of reference of the proposed councils will have to be researched and carefully considered before they are established but the initial research is under way and as soon as I get recommendations on the matter I will make specific proposals to the Government.

It may be that different types of community councils will be needed for the various communities. For instance, in highly urbanised areas the approach may have to be different from that adopted in the case of rural areas. In developing the councils we will have to take cognisance of the distinct characteristics of each area and it may be that we shall at first deal with pilot schemes to see which type is the more likely to succeed.

With regard to equipping the force, I am aware that the Garda Síochána must be fully equipped to enable them to do their job efficiently and effectively. I will be looking at the needs of the force to ensure that we have the most effective police service our resources will allow. Deputies will know that earlier this month I got the approval of this House to make substantial additional funds available for the Garda Síochána. The extra moneys voted included additional funds for clothing and for protective equipment over and above the funds available in the original Garda Estimate this year.

With regard to recruiting adequate numbers of gardaí, I informed the House earlier this month and also in this debate that recruitment of additional gardaí is at present taking place. In the debate on the Supplementary Estimate I indicated that 6,512 applications were received from young men and women who were interested in joining the Garda Síochána. Of that number, 2,663 were exempt from the Garda entrance examination because they had the requisite leaving certificate. The number of applicants who applied for the Garda entrance examination which was held on 30 July was 3,849 and of that number 1,568 passed the examination. This means that 4,231 candidates had to be interviewed. Because of the large number of applicants and the fact that the drop-out rate in those coming forward for interview was low, the Civil Service Commission have informed me that all interviews will not be completed before the middle of January. This means that actual appointments to the force will commence in February. As I have announced already, a total of 300 new gardaí will be appointed. In other words, the training centre will be filled to the brim as soon as possible. Recruitment will continue during 1982. To further help the gardaí, we have decided to recruit additional traffic wardens so that gardaí who are currently doing such work can be relieved. New traffic wardens will be appointed in the next few weeks.

The policy document published by this Government commits the Government to tackling crime and vandalism through a number of measures, including the more extended use of modern technology to assist the gardaí in coping with the many difficult problems confronting them. I wish to emphasise that the Government intend fully to honour that commitment. The technological services that spring most readily to mind are communications and computer facilities. I acknowledge that the previous Government took positive steps to provide these things for the gardaí and that, due to the necessity for careful and detailed planning, they are not items that can be provided overnight or at short notice. It so happens, however, that while the previous Government put the planning process in train, the vast bulk of the money needed to pay for the Garda computer and radio systems will have to be found by this Government. Despite the serious financial, situation we inherited, my Government will do their utmost to see that the gardaí are not left without the modern technological aids that are essential to them.

The national Garda radio network which is being provided will be as up-to-date and as sophisticated as any police system in Europe. When fully operational it will mean that all gardaí on duty throughout the country, whether on foot or in patrol cars, will be in immediate radio contact with their control centres. I am confident this will have a major beneficial effect on the efficiency of the force. It will mean that officers in charge of operations will have greater control than at present over the Garda resources at their disposal and it will mean that as the investigation of a crime proceeds the most up-to-date information can be passed instantly to other members of the investigating team, to patrolling cars and to men operating checkpoints. Not the least benefit of the new radio system will be that the garda on patrol need no longer feel isolated. His link with his control centre should be always there so that he can seek advice or, if necessary, some assistance. I am conscious of the part the system will play in reassuring gardaí in situations of potential danger and in ensuring their safety.

The computer facilities that have been provided for the gardaí will mean that information required in Garda files will be much more quickly made available to officers engaged on criminal investigation. The speed with which information can be located and transmitted to investigating officers can often be a major factor in solving or preventing a crime. The computer facilities, combined with the new radio communications system, will produce significant results. On the question of the computer facilities, I wish to state that there is nothing sinister or secretive about what has been done. The Garda, like all police forces, have always kept various records. Basically what the computer does is to store the information that has always been kept in conventional manual records. The great benefit of the computer is the relative ease and speed with which required information can be obtained. Among the items that will be kept on computer are the stolen and suspect vehicle system, a firearms system, a crime reporting system, a missing persons system and a national vehicles registrations system.

Time does not allow me to deal with all matters. However, I should like to answer a number of questions raised by Deputy Collins. He raised the question of the meeting I had with the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors relating to sergeants on the Border. Not only was the meeting very satisfactory but the problem they thought they had was not a problem when they came to see me.

With regard to the aerial wing, the amount of money involved is so great that a proper evaluation has to be made. Deputy Collins mentioned he had not the necessary qualifications — and neither have I — to evaluate expenditure of the sums involved and neither was there the necessary qualifications in the Department to evaluate the expenditure involved. I consider we should carry out a very comprehensive evaluation. If we have to train pilots and maintenance people and have spare parts and so on for the Garda and duplicate them in the air corps we are not using scarce national resources in the optimum way. The public have to pay taxes to meet these bills and we should seek the most effective way of putting these aids at the disposal of the Garda.

Who is doing the evaluation?

I have asked the Garda Commissioner to have it done.

There is no-one within Garda Commissioner rank who has the expertise to carry out this evaluation. It is a question of expenditure.

We could have a separate debate on this subject.

Everyone wishes the Minister well in his position. I have always considered the position of Minister for Justice as one of the most strenuous, particularly over the last ten years. Having cleared that piece of bonhomie I return to the Minister's point about not making a political issue of this motion. I do not want to make any political points but should like to put the record straight in relation to the Minister's suggestion that there was a proposal to recruit 2,000 new gardaí by the outgoing Fianna Fáil Government in the period between the time of their defeat and the time they left Government. The Minister said his information, where-ever he gets it from, was that recruitment of 2,000 gardaí would take over seven years. I doubt that the Minister will be there for seven years but, for the record, the former Minister, Deputy Collins, was in the Department for four years and recruited 2,000 gardaí. That is a matter of ascertainable fact.

One can recruit 2,000 gardaí but one cannot increase the strength by 2,000. There is a subtle difference.

That is the subtlety I am trying to expose.

It takes six or seven years to strengthen the force.

What is a year between friends?

The Minister made an ambiguous statement which could be taken in a number of ways. I am putting the record right. The Minister also spoke in ambiguous terms about the recent supplementary estimate and said the reason for its introduction was that the kitty had run dry in the Department and that gardaí wage packets would be empty at the end of a particular day if the estimate was not introduced. I have the privilege of being a long-standing member of the House and I remember that Deputy Cooney as Minister for Justice introduced a Supplementary Estimate to my certain knowledge and may have introduced a second one. In Deputy Collin's time as Minister he introduced a supplementary estimate in 1979 and again in 1980. To come in and try to pretend this is something new and that the money has run dry is false and could be interpreted incorrectly. The reason for the introduction of the supplementary estimate, which has almost become a traditional practice, is to supplement Garda pay and expenditure. There is nothing new in it. I am sure the Minister did not intend to mislead the House in relation to the two matters which I hope I have corrected.

This is an important motion and does not fall into the pit of a pious expression of fatuity but rather states a reality and calls on the Government to recognise that an emergency exists and to take action in relation to it. The Minister mentioned in his wide-ranging speech, as did Deputy Collins, the community role in relation to the prevention of crime. It is necessary to have a strengthened Garda force by way of adequate members but the greatest custodian of any locality is its community. The voluntary organisation and the individual can assist in many ways. The voluntary group, representative of its locality, can help to curtail crime whether by way of prevention or cure. Two of the greatest social diseases which have become endemic in recent years for some reason better known to psychiatrists and psychologists, vandalism and assault, appear to be part of the daily business of living.

How often have we seen mindless slogans written on prominent vantage points in various areas? We can only marvel at how long they remain on a wall which may be indicative of an uncaring attitude of the people of that area. I have the honour of representing the Dún Laoghaire constituency and have done so for some time. In this area there is a car ferry and an important entry and exit port for British visitors. We were regularly treated, although happily not in the recent past, to an outbreak of "Brits Out" slogans of one less than sophisticated kind or another. Here is an immediate role for the community: prevent the slogan writer at his work by calling the Garda or, if it is the work of a midnight artist, call the local authority the next day to clean the wall or roadway so vandalised. Where a vandal is caught the courts should punish him or her by having the person remove their handiwork, or where common property is smashed, for example, trees on an estate or a phone booth, repay the community by way of replacing the cost of the damage done. If the offender is a young person the means of the parents might be worth examining. These are some immediate solutions. If a child vandalises public property and is apprehended instead of sending him to the juvenile court where district justices are overworked and where if he is found guilty he cannot be committed anywhere, he should correct the damage he has done. He should clean up the walls he has vandalised with mindless slogans. If he knows carpentry and has ability there is no reason why he should not be sent along to help in the reconstruction of a telephone booth. There is no reason why he could not be brought to a State forest and asked to transport a tree or trees to the area where he has mindlessly destroyed a tree or trees. Nothing in the law prevents that type of action being taken against this increase in social crime. No law whatever is in existence which prevents the courts giving a sanction of that nature.

I do not believe in vigilante groups. Sometimes they may be tempted to become law enforcement groups in their own right, and that would be singularly evil. In the Garda Síochána we have one of the ablest law enforcement agencies in the world, and they should be allowed get on with their job in respect of their role as custodians of the community. Through local organisations such as residents' associations and local authorities the community might consider setting up in areas where such is not operating already an additional committee to monitor local security and to ensure the protection of the population and the environment. These committees could liaise with the local Garda and would be in ease and aid of that force for the welfare of the community. There is a community relations section in the Garda Síochána and this practice should be extended and the roles of the community and the community relations section of the Garda Síochána should coalesce.

Another area which has not been mentioned during this debate is the protection of the elderly living alone. The Department of Health recently announced details of a scheme to improve the living conditions of our senior citizens living alone. The money, £409,000, is being provided by the Employment Guarantee Fund and is being shared out among eight health boards with a bias in favour of sparsely populated areas where large numbers of people are living isolated. The community task force will implement the scheme which does not apply to local authority houses or houses eligible for existing house improvement grants. This scheme should be expanded to provide our solitary elderly with an emergency alert system by which they could press a button to call for help in a crisis, whether it be burglary, attempted assault or illness. If this scheme cannot carry the cost of the introduction of an alarm system as suggested, the Minister for the Environment should provide moneys to the local authorities to enable them to install the systems free where telephones are not easily accessible.

I come to another area which is manmade and can be man-cured, but for some reason we seem to fall down between so many sections and divisions of a particular local authority that we are sent on a bureaucratic merry-go-round. In suburban Ireland street lighting throughout the many housing estates is necessary to prevent crime such as attacks on private house property and assault, particularly on our young children and the adult young. An example of the type of serious problem that exists is an emergency which has struck a housing estate in my constituency, namely, the Carrickbrennan housing estate, Monkstown Co. Dublin. My information is that this estate is two years in existence and since it was completed 30 houses have been broken into within those two years. The majority view on the estate is that the lack of street lighting has been the primary cause of the attraction of the undesirable elements in that area. Surely this can be cured by the action requested by the harassed residents. The solution there is that the ESB contact the local authority, as no doubt has been done, but for some known or unknown reason the lights remain to be turned on. My belief is that as soon as those lights are turned on the problem in that area — which I use as an example of areas throughout surburban Ireland — will be solved.

There is also a role for the education authorities. If I were not so committed to the abolition of the death penalty I would say that one area where it might be applied would be the drug pushers.

Is the Deputy going to vote for it them?

We have no problems.

We have no problems in that respect. I have raised it in the proper way privately through the party system rather than publicly. If I were not so committed to the abolition——

A Deputy

What answer will the Deputy give us.

For the third time, if I were not so committed to the abolition of the death penalty, one area where it might be applied would be to the drug pushers or traffickers. They come in all shapes and sizes, but the vilest surely is the criminal who sells to the young men and women attending various second and third level institutions. The education authorities have a very important role to play in advising our young people of the effect of drugs on their young minds and physiques. Those schools do a good job in this regard, but the danger signs must be recognised and challenged constantly. The young person just left school and without a job is so open to the drug risk and other criminal opportunities that it is incumbent on the Government of the day to monitor the progress of such a person until he or she is in full-time employment. This is a case for the appointment of a full-time jobs officer in every large school in the land. Maybe the past pupils unions in contact with the school authorities and the local authorities have a role to play here. After-school care service is required and salaries should be paid to trained personnel to ensure that the young at risk are protected against this unnecessary threat until they find a job, preferably one of their choice.

The Government might take note regarding this whole question of unemployment and the tragedy of unemployment that may afflict a young person who has just left secondary school with or without honours or third level entrance qualifications and is looking for a job. In the view of social scientists and psychologists one of the greatest areas of risk for young people is from the time they leave school until they get a job. It is a matter of national emergency and importance that a person leaving school gets a job, preferably a job of that person's choice. Young people coming out of school who are put into dead-end jobs end up as frustrated as if they were unemployed. That is one of the greatest evils of unemployment which should be recognised and eradicated particularly in relation to our young people. We are sowing the seeds of discontent if we do not give young people the employment opportunities which are their constitutional right. The generation after my own and the generation after my children's generation must be allowed their constitutional right to work, otherwise there is a threat of gradual breakdown of our society and all the institutions that derive thereunder.

In the short time remaining to me I would like to raise a question that I have raised previously, that of a police authority. No such proposal should be even remotely considered until the Garda authorities, their representative association and all other parties interested have been consulted. I do not suggest that by having a police authority the position of the commissioner should be eroded in any respect. The commissioner has a predominant role to play in his relationships with the totality of the Garda Síochána force. I would like to clear the air in that regard. The relationship between the commissioner and the Garda Síochána force is sacrosanct and cannot be touched. I have raised the proposal for a police authority here in the past and surely the time has come now to arrive at a conclusion in regard to its practicality. A number of criteria which might be met in the formation of such an authority might be kept in mind by the Minister: (1) The police authority should be there to assist the Garda Síochána in the exercise of their important role, (2) they should improve the confidence and trust of the public in the Garda Síochána; (3) they should involve the various representative associations within the Garda Síochána in their working. It is important that such a police authority be seen as in aid of the Garda and not as another layer of bureaucratic control which leads sometimes to obstructionism and onwards and ever upwards to obscurantism.

Debate adjourned.
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