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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 25 Nov 1981

Vol. 331 No. 2

Youth Employment Agency Bill, 1981: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

One of the major commitments in the Programme for Government 1981-86 is the undertaking to establish at an early date a youth employment agency. The Government are concerned that our young people are spared the effects of long spells of forced inactivity. The opportunity to translate that element of Government policy to reality is something which I very much welcome.

Since assuming office as Minister for Labour and Minister for the Public Service I have given a very high priority to the early establishment of the Youth Employment Agency. A lot of work has already been accomplished and I am hopeful that, with the co-operation of both Houses of the Oireachtas, the Youth Employment Agency Bill will be given a quick passage so as to permit the early establishment of the agency and the urgent commencement of the nationally important work which it has to do.

The persistent growth of youth unemployment in Europe since the early seventies has called into question many assumptions which could previously be safely made. Now the prospects for obtaining employment and the possibility of having what was seen before as a normal working life span are, increasingly, uncertain. That uncertainty has been heightened by the pace of technological change and its application through all sectors of enterprise. These developments have coincided with the emergence of an increasingly sophisticated youth population, determined to participate fully in all facets of our modern industrial society and, in particular, to realise the high expectations which it sets itself for satisfying, rewarding and durable working lives.

There is a very important job to be done in seeking to align job expectations with the reality of what working life has to offer. The educational system must be able to produce at all levels people who are equipped with the skills and aptitudes for which there is a demand in the working world. To do this there must be a much greater degree of interaction between those responsible for the formulation of educational and training policies and those who chart the course of industrial development in the years ahead.

The proposed Youth Employment Agency will have a very important task to discharge in bringing about this conjunction and so improving on the present situation where often the job aspirations of our young people bear little relationship to industrial requirements. The emphasis of our educational system now leans heavily towards academic rather than vocational skills. While some efforts have been made to remedy this imbalance they have lacked real conviction and consequently their impact has not been significant. As a result, a large number of school leavers fail to secure employment because of the inappropriateness or inadequacy of their vocational preparation.

An examination of our approach to date to overcoming the problem of youth unemployment quickly points up a patchwork of training, work experience and educational measures. These stand apart from any coherently planned approach or strategy. Their only common thread is that they aim to make young people more employable through enhancing their skills and aptitudes. There is general agreement that there are wide variations in the effectiveness of the different programmes in achieving their objectives. Despite this there is no effective monitoring of results or, indeed, any co-ordination of the activities of programme sponsors to channel efforts and change emphasis as circumstances require. Clearly this disparate approach is unsatisfactory and wasteful of resources. It exists in the absence of any central authority which has a mandate to bring a unified and concerted approach towards assisting in the solution of the problem of youth unemployment. I am proposing that this task be assigned to the Youth Employment Agency.

Unemployment among young people is high because unemployment is high in the community overall. The level of unemployment has risen rapidly in the present recession which began at the end of 1979. By the end of October, seasonally adjusted unemployment was 56 per cent higher than in December 1979. Youth unemployment has risen even faster; while seasonally adjusted figures are not available, the actual number of unemployed aged under 25 is now over 80 per cent higher than in January 1980.

It is clear that young workers fare relatively badly when there is a sharp, sudden rise in overall unemployment. Not only are jobs lost in a recession, there is also a fall-off in the number of new jobs created as even successful firms postpone new investment. In addition, fewer older workers are willing to leave their present jobs for fear of being unable to find alternative employment. As a result, the number of job vacancies shrinks, and young people looking for their first job are faced with particular difficulties. It is equally true that youth unemployment can be expected to fall more rapidly in the recovery from a recession.

In this connection, it is encouraging that unemployment has been rising more slowly in recent months, with the rate of increase since the end of April being under 1 per cent per month as compared with 2 per cent per month between December 1979 and April 1981. While the international outlook is unclear, some recovery in demand in the major European countries is likely in the coming year. As this recovery feeds through into increased Irish exports, young people will benefit from the associated increase in employment.

Quite apart from the present recession, unemployment during the seventies in the western economies has been substantially higher than in the previous decade. Economic growth has been slower than during the sixties, and the international recovery from the recession which followed the oil-price increases in 1973-74 was particularly hesitant even before it was cut short by the further shocks of 1979. Meanwhile, population shifts and social change led to rapid increases in the numbers available for work, with the inevitable result of markedly higher unemployment levels.

As a small and extremely open country, Ireland suffered more than most from these trends. Despite the boost given to agricultural and other exports by entry to the EEC, we shared in the generally lower economic growth worldwide. Moreover, our labour force grew particularly rapidly.

The number of retirements has been low, because the generation reaching retirement age is one which was heavily depleted by mass emigration in earlier years. On the other hand, the number of children born each year rose rapidly during the sixties, and these children are now reaching working age. Their numbers have been added to by the steady inflow of children born abroad who accompanied parents returning to Ireland after a period of emigration.

Our labour force has therefore grown even more rapidly than other countries. We are unique, too, in that the numbers available for work are likely to grow steadily well into the nineties. Our major EEC partners will experience static or declining workforces from the mid-eighties onwards. We face a relatively daunting task in providing jobs for all our people, not just the young.

In all countries for which statistics are available, unemployment among teenagers and young adults has always been higher than among older workers, even in good times. Young job-seekers lack many of the skills and abilities which come only with some experience of working life. A larger number of the young jobless at any time are in fact looking for their first job, making the difficult switch between the rather different rhythms and disciplines of school or college and the work-place. They face choices between different occupations and working environments which older workers have already made, and may change jobs several times, with intervening periods of unemployment, before they find their niche.

These factors are balanced to some degree by the greater flexibility of young people, who do not generally have dependants or own their accommodation. They can move more readily to areas where jobs are available, can take greater risks in search of the right job than can older workers who must have a constant concern for the material welfare of dependant families. On balance, however, younger people are in a relatively weak competitive position in the labour market.

One often ignored point I wish to make in relation to the nature of the youth unemployment problem is to do with timing. In the normal course of events, new jobs are created and existing jobs become vacant fairly steadily throughout the year. However, the vast majority of our young people leave the educational system in a brief spell during the summer and commence serious job seeking in autumn. Even in a situation where all school leavers were destined to find jobs, some at least would have to wait a matter of some months until these jobs become available.

While young workers who lose their jobs do not generally remain unemployed for long periods, a minority of them do face the problem of long-term unemployment. The most recent available information relates to October 1980, when just under one-third of the young unemployed had been on the live register for six months or more. If this ratio has remained constant, we can estimate that there are up to 12,000 young people in this category at present. Long-term unemployment is a major problem in itself, and one which has been growing in severity in recent years, and it is of particular concern for the future that our young people should undergo such a demoralising experience at the start of their working lives.

In summary, we face not one, but several unemployment problems, each affecting young people to a greater or lesser degree. We face a medium to long-term task of generating jobs for a rapidly growing labour force. We have an immediate problem of extremely high unemployment, after the rapid rise in the live register during 1980 and 1981. This has affected young people particularly badly.

There is a need for better provision for the transition from education to working life. We have a substantial number of young people who are out of work for long periods. Such young people are likely to have left school early and to have few or no formal qualifications.

As I have made clear, I feel that the main plank of any policy to reduce youth unemployment must be a sustained. attack on the scourge of unemployment at all levels in our society. For Ireland, this requires continued growth in our exports of goods and services. Increased exports are vital in view of the sharp deterioration in our balance of payments position in the last few years. Export growth must also be the engine for the creation of the new jobs which are going to be needed in the years to come.

While the present and future activities of the IDA and other development bodies will go some way towards the necessary expansion in our productive capacity and in exports, the Government are convinced that further initiatives are needed. The major initiatives along these lines, as outlined in the Programme for Government, will be the setting up of the National Development Corporation. The corporation will have great long-term importance in the task of increasing productive employment. One of its main aims will be to ensure that the exploitation of stable commercial opportunities in either the private or public sector will not be constrained by undercapitalisation. Much of the corporation's investment will be directed to new growth sectors where progress in the past has been inhibited for this reason. The corporation will have a central development role, with powers to identify and initiate commercial investment opportunities either on its own or in joint ventures with existing State and private capacities.

A major challenge facing us is the optimum utilisation of the massive investment we have made over the years in our commercial State enterprises. The work of the corporation in promoting efficiency in this area will help develop a professional, vigorous and successful State sector which can contribute greatly to the growth of the economy.

Export growth will depend to a great extent on improved competitiveness and efficiency. The NDC, along with other Government policies for improved efficiency in the public service at large, will play a major part in our drive towards these objectives.

Balanced and self-sustaining output and employment growth will do much to improve the youth employment situation. It will still be necessary to come to terms with those features of our society and its institutions which lead to higher unemployment among young people than among older adults.

Even with high rates of economic growth, the sheer number of young people entering the labour market each year, allied to the special problems of first-time job seekers, will continue to require special measures. A range of such measures, already in existence, will cater for up to 20,000 young people this year.

It is expected that during 1981-5,000 young people will take part in the National Manpower Service's Work Experience Programme; 10,000 young people will be trained in AnCO's general training programmes, with a further 2,000 apprentices; 1,700 young people will participate in AnCO's Community Youth Training Programme.

A further 1,000 people have been engaged in schemes run by the Departments of Education and of the Environment.

Additional funds have been provided for several of these programmes in recent weeks.

Allied to measures taken within the educational system, such as the introduction and expansion of pre-employment courses, these programmes constitute a sizeable effort to aid the young unemployed and those about to leave school.

Even with this level of State support, the present high level of youth unemployment dictates that additional resources be made available.

Apart from the question of inadequate funding, a major problem with existing programmes is the lack of co-ordination between them. Here, as in other countries, the recognition of youth unemployment as a major policy concern in the mid-1970's led to a series of ad hoc responses. The range of schemes now open to our young unemployed illustrates this point. Some training courses run for periods of up to a year, others for a matter of weeks. Some have an element of work experience, others take place entirely in a training centre environment. In some cases the objective of schemes is simply to provide short-term employment with a rudimentary element of learning-by-doing, and the continuity of employment offered varies from area to area.

On occasions the fact that programmes with roughly similar objectives were being run by separate agencies led to competition and duplication and resulted in confusion among the very young people who were meant to benefit. It is fair to say that we do not have a comprehensive and integrated range of programmes, and I am convinced that there is a need for such a package.

Finally, I am concerned that existing schemes do not do enough to aid those in most need — young people who have left school at an early stage and face a future of uncertain and sporadic employment in low-skilled jobs. This may result from the sheer volume of applications for participation in programmes set against the limited number of places available. The truly disadvantaged teenagers are likely to have a range of social and personal problems and thus appear at a superficial level to be least likely to benefit from structured training programmes of the type we now offer. As a result programme sponsors may be unwilling to take them on board. They tend to be restricted to programmes involving short-term employment creation rather than skill acquisition and this, if anything, reinforces the cycle of deprivation. I know that some programme sponsors are aware of this problem and have run imaginative pilot schemes for the relevant young people, and I am confident that an increase in resources will go some way towards helping disadvantaged youths. It is also my intention to move towards greater concentration of resources in the areas of greatest need.

Schemes similar to our own, with minor variations, have been introduced by all our partners in the European communities. In board terms the schemes cover temporary or permanent job creation schemes in the public sector; similar schemes in the private sector based mainly on wage subsidies or tax concessions; education programmes for unemployed youth and pre-employment courses in the educational system; vocational education and training; work experience programmes; early retirement of older workers to make way for young workers; and measures to stimulate labour demand in small enterprises, youth enterprises and co-operatives.

Probably the most highly developed set of programmes to assist young people are those operated in Scandinavian countries. These programmes form part of a "youth guarantee" which takes the form of a guarantee of an opportunity of a job or a training place to young people who meet certain conditions, relating mainly to the duration of unemployment. A similar approach is now being taken in the UK under the Youth Opportunities Programme.

It is fair to say that what we are proposing for Ireland in the Bill before us at least matches what is being done in other countries. The emphasis is on a comprehensive package to assist young people and it is very similar to, if not identical with, the youth guarantee idea which I have mentioned.

Any major new departure in an area as important as the one before us needs the widest possible range of opinions and advice prior to its initiation. I have discussed the proposed agency with, among others, representatives of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, the Federated Union of Employers and the National Youth Council of Ireland. The views of these bodies were taken into consideration in formulating the proposals before Deputies.

I also intend to submit to the board of the agency, when it is established, suggestions made to me and my Department over the last four months concerning the activities of the agency. The interest shown in the agency up to now has, I believe, emphasised the importance attached by the community to the need to assist young people in the labour market. Other bodies and individuals who wish to do so may make submissions direct to the agency and I am sure such submissions will be welcomed. One document which will be of particular interest to the agency is the forthcoming report of the OECD team led by Mrs. Shirley Williams which examined our youth employment problems and our existing schemes earlier this year.

Certain conclusions can be arrived at from what I have been saying up to now. Firstly, we have a sizeable number of our young people unemployed. Secondly, labour force projections point to a continuing situation of more young entrants to the labour force than retirals. Thirdly, what has been done up to now is not an adequately comprehensive and co-ordinated response to the problem — it does not cover the entire transition from school to full integration in the work force and it is of limited benefit to disadvantaged young people.

The Government in its programme for 1981-86 recognised these considerations and the need for special provisions to deal with the acute problem of youth employment. The Government therefore decided to establish without delay a youth employment agency to integrate and radically extend the schemes that exist at present under the separate auspices of a number of State enterprises. The Government intend the new agency to move as rapidly as it physically can to the point where an additional 20,000 young people will be catered for by existing and new schemes. These measures will be designed to ensure that no young person is left without some form of work training or work experience within a relatively short period of having completed his or her education.

I would now like to give the House an indication of my proposals for dealing with the problem. The Youth Employment Agency Bill before us is intended to implement these proposals. In brief, the Bill has two parts dealing, firstly, with the establishment of the agency itself and, secondly, with the collection of the levy.

The first part embraces sections 2 to 14. These sections provide for the formation and registration of the agency, its constitution as a limited liability company under the Companies Acts, its memorandum and articles of association, the board of directors, the holding of shares and the furnishing of balance sheets, the winding up of the agency and the usual provisions under which directors and employees of the agency cannot be members of the Houses of the Oireachtas or the European Assembly.

The levy to finance the agency and the schemes is dealt with in sections 15 to 26, the main points being the methods of collecting the levy and the channelling of funds to programme sponsors. The European Social Fund will also be involved in the funding of the programmes concerned.

The urgency and importance of the tasks which the Youth Employment Agency will be expected to accomplish require that they should very quickly achieve an identification as the primary unit assisting and facilitating the employment of young persons. To do this they must be seen to be competent and efficient and to have a flexibility to contemplate initiatives and embark upon new departures. With these considerations in mind I am proposing to establish the agency as a limited company. Approval of the Oireachtas to this approach is required in the legislation which we are now discussing. Its advantages lie in that the agency can be quickly established and operative and can have the flexibility also not alone to assess, co-ordinate and expand existing activities but also to make a distinctive contribution in their own right towards alleviating the problems of youth unemployment.

I propose to appoint a board of 11 members to direct the agency's operations. Two of these would be representative of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, two representative of employer organisations and two of youth interests. In addition a representative of the Ministers for Education and the Environment respectively will be appointed and, finally, three board members including the chairman, will be appointed directly by me as Minister for Labour. I am confident that a board of this size, peopled by able and committed representatives of the relevant major interests, can make a most fundamental contribution through directing the activities of the Youth Employment Agency towards realising fully the objectives for which they are being established.

In view of the urgency of the task facing the agency I propose, with the agreement of the House, to establish them on an ad hoc basis at an early date.

The memorandum and articles of association of the company will incorporate the following detailed terms of reference:

(a) to review the effectiveness of youth employment, work experience and training programmes with particular reference to their impact on disadvantaged youth;

(b) to extend existing youth job creation, training and work experience programmes, while providing also for increased penetration for such programmes among disadvantaged youth;

(c) to arrange for assistance to be given to voluntary, social or community organisations to provide employment for young people where this is not possible under existing programmes;

(d) to arrange assistance for young people with the establishment of an enterprise in areas other than those in which existing bodies, for example, the IDA, county development teams and AnCO, operate; in particular the agency should promote, through education and publicity, the concept of self-help and enterprise amongst young people, either individually or in co-operative endeavours;

(e) to carry out and administer youth employment and training schemes where there are gaps in existing programmes;

(f) to co-ordinate and integrate the various schemes, ensure there is no duplication between them and, in this connection, to set general standards for the various schemes in relation to such matters as the ages, wages and allowances of participants;

(g) to identify areas outside the scope of existing programmes into which Government aid to young people could be extended, for example, agriculture and other primary activities;

(h) to consider the possibility of improving the access of unemployed young people to a range of educational and training courses in the private and public sectors possibly by means of a voucher scheme for eligible youth;

(i) to submit views, as appropriate, on educational policy and its effectiveness in preparing young people for working life.

In drawing up these terms of reference I have given very careful consideration to the full range of activities which the agency will be expected to undertake. They have been adopted to ensure that the agency will meet certain basic requirements — for example, that programmes are concentrated in areas of greatest disadvantage and are operated in a non-discriminatory way. They also leave the agency with adequate scope for enterprise and initiative.

Of particular interest to the House will be the facility which the agency will have to relate directly with local interests and to assist these, both financially and with advice and back-up, to devise and implement schemes at local level. The essential test in determining whether such schemes should be assisted will be whether they can provide worthwhile outlets for youth and enhance their possibilities of obtaining employment. In addition the agency will be able to assist young persons to start up enterprises which have potential for additional job creation.

In recent years, we have depended to a large extent on foreign investment and enterprise to provide jobs. Nonetheless, I feel that this country offers comparatively more scope than most other EEC member states for the application of native initiative and enterprise. There is considerable potential for young people to create opportunities for themselves and others. The lack of a good track record to date should not deter them from openly looking at the possibilities for enterprise. I would hope that the Youth Employment Agency will play a constructive role in facilitating such a development.

I should like also to mention the responsibility which the agency will have to consider any innovative measures to augment those currently providing work experience, training, or employment outlets for our young people. To a very considerable extent our interventions in these areas to date have closely mirrored developments in other member states of the EEC and, in particular, in Britain. I would envisage that the agency, because of the different representative interests making an input to their work, should be able to identify gaps in the present operations and bring about required change. I am hopeful that the agency will give high priority also to devising, either on their own or in co-operation with other sponsors, programmes aimed at specific target groups and which take account of the particular and relevant characteristics of the location in which they are held. A high degree of local co-operation will obviously be required to facilitate such an approach but I have no doubt at all that such co-operation will be readily forthcoming in the interest of tackling and overcoming youth unemployment.

As indicated in the Government's programme to which I have already referred, it is intended to defray the cost of the operations coming within the scope of the Youth Employment Agency through the medium of a 1 per cent levy on all income. This 1 per cent charge will be collected by means of an appropriate increase in persons' health contributions. In preparing the Bill my general approach has been to build on the financing framework that already exists. This would seem to be the most sensible, efficient and cost effective way to proceed. Following the precedents set in the collection of the contribution for health purposes the following arrangement will apply:

(a) the levy will be collected from the PRSI group via the PRSI system with the Revenue Commissioners being the collecting agents.

(b) the levy will be collected from the self-employed and "excepted farmers" also by the Revenue Commissioners, and

(c) the levy will be collected from farmers not included above by the health boards.

Under the Bill as drafted certain social welfare recipients will be exempt from the levy as will medical card holders who are not in employment while for those card holders in insurable employment the levy will be paid by their employer.

These proposals also follow precedents set in the case of the health contribution. In addition I have decided to exclude other social welfare payments now liable for health contributions. I will be introducing an appropriate amendment on Committee Stage. I might mention also that preliminary consideration is being given to exempting low paid workers from payment of the health contribution and that whatever is decided in that instance will be taken into account in deciding liability for the youth employment levy.

On the basis of best estimates I expect receipts from the levy to amount in a full year to somewhere in the region of £63 million. The mechanism proposed for channelling this money to the agency and other training and employment opportunities for young people is that a subhead will be entered in the Department of Labour Vote, of an amount equal to the expected yield from the levy during the period in question. Thus in 1982 my Department's estimates would include an amount equivalent to the expected yield from the levy from 6 April 1982 to the end of the year which will be of the order of £40 million. I gave detailed consideration to the question of having a youth employment fund. I rejected this idea, however, on the grounds of the complex accounting procedures involved and also because funds would not become available until somewhere towards the middle of 1982 — and I intend to have the agency in operation long before that date.

It is my intention to devote proceeds of the levy as fas as possible directly to the Youth Employment Agency in the normal manner of a grant-in-aid. I will make funds available to the agency following its submission of an annual outline programme to the Minister for Labour and subsequently following receipt of regular progress reports. As regards its relationship with programme sponsors, I am of the opinion that the agency should adopt a course under which the sponsors will submit their programmes to it, discussions will then take place, and finally agreement will be given by the agency to funding to a determined level, based on certain targets being achieved. The details of the schemes to be sponsored by the agency, numbers to be covered and similar questions are matters proper for decision by the agency.

The subhead in my Department vote will also contain a provision covering the direct channelling of funds to youth training and employment programmes with the sanction of the Minister for Finance. This provision is intended to cover any difficulties which may arise in channelling funds to programme sponsors in 1982. The main programme sponsors will be AnCO, the National Manpower Service, the Department of Education and the Department of the Environment but I expect this list to expand considerably in 1982.

I have considered the question whether the proceeds of the levy should be used to finance existing youth schemes carried forward at the 1981 level into 1982. The alternative would be to use the proceeds of the levy to finance only additions to these schemes and new schemes. As I have already indicated one of the important functions of the agency will be to integrate and co-ordinate all that is now being done for the employment of youth and to build on existing structures. I have accordingly opted for financing both existing and new schemes from the levy. It would be wasteful of resources and inefficient to do otherwise and it would go counter to the objective of integrating the various schemes. The Government will top up the receipts from the levy in any year to such extent as might be necessary to meet the total costs of all schemes carried out by the agency or by other bodies with its approval.

The European Social Fund plays a significant role in influencing Community employment policy. In brief, it provides assistance for vocational training and for community regions with the most pressing employment problems. In this regard, Ireland has been deemed a region of priority and 55 per cent of costs of our eligible training schemes are refunded from the European Social Fund. In addition we receive about £11 per week in respect of each youth on a work experience or job creation programme. This aid has been of immense value to the development of our system of vocational training since 1973 and in more recent years in supplementing the cost of our work experience and job creation schemes. I look forward to increased ESF support for our existing programmes in their expanded form and I am confident that aid from the fund will also be forthcoming for any new schemes promoted by the agency to deal with the youth employment problem.

Due to the necessity to have applications for social fund assistance with the EEC Commission before mid-October in the year preceding the operations, we have already submitted to the EEC applications that take account of activities by the agency and by other programme sponsors in 1982. When I discussed the applications with the director for the social fund, he endorsed fully what we were doing for youth and welcomed the new approach which we have adopted. The moneys which we are spending and which will be contributed by our own people illustrate the importance which we attach in Ireland to the question of youth employment and this approach has been endorsed by the Commission. I should state that the level of assistance from the social fund for young people is at present under consideration by the EEC Commission and we will be making an Irish input when the matter comes before the Council of Ministers.

The setting up of the agency, and the proposed expansion of provision for the young unemployed, represent a major departure. In 1982, as I have said, I envisage a doubling of the number of young people to be catered for.

I am concerned that the increase in resources devoted to youth employment and training schemes should have a direct impact on the problem of youth unemployment. It is my confident expectation that the proposal I have put before the House will achieve that aim, for several reasons. One possible obstacle in the way of success is that in a period of limited job opportunities, those completing programmes may have great difficulty in finding employment. On this point, I have already outlined this Government's general policies for the generation of self-sustaining employment growth.

It is also my view that the activities of the agency, of themselves, will help our long-term job creation drive. Training and work experience programmes will help our young people to build up skills and abilities which they would otherwise lack. By so raising the skill level of our young workforce, we will improve our competitive position relative to other countries, and increase the scope for carrying out a broader range of economic activities in Ireland. Not only will it encourage outside firms to locate new activities in Ireland, it will facilitate the development of new forms of activity from our new resources. In this connection, the agency's role in advising on educational policy and its relationship with working life will be of major importance in developing an integrated approach to the development of our young people.

Finally, I wish to refer again to the social, as opposed to economic, benefits to be sought from the agency's work. This relates particularly to the emphasis placed in our proposals on the needs of disadvantaged youth. I see the drive towards improved access for such young people to training, work experience and employment programmes as being a major requirement for greater equality of opportunity in our society. There are many barriers to such equality, but I am confident that the agency will share my determination to break these down and to ensure a better future for young people from the poorer parts of our cities, towns and rural areas.

I commend these proposals to the Dáil with full confidence that they will be welcomed and supported. The Bill represents an earnest of our determination to deal with the problem of youth unemployment in a structured manner to ensure that young boys and girls leaving school will be equipped to take their place in the world of work without too long a delay.

I have particular pleasure in putting forward the Bill, as its objectives and concerns are ones which I have supported both within my own party and as Vice-Chairman, for a number of years, of the Youth Committee of the European Parliament.

My party have always supported any measures to reduce unemployment and we will not oppose this Bill. While we will endeavour to expedite its passage through the House, we have many reservations about it and many points to make on it. I hope that as a result of our efforts here the Bill will be a more adequate and suitable measure when it leaves the House.

The Bill is disappointing in many of its features. It was circulated two weeks ago with an explanatory memorandum which was referred to in the press and in this House as completely inadequate for a Bill of this kind. The Bill refers to the levy, its collection and the establishment of a youth employment agency. That is all very fine from a public relations point of view. I have said often that if this Government are good at anything they are good at their public relations image. A recent comment to me was that no Government in the history of this country have worked so hard on their image and that is evident in very many areas. I refer in particular to the number of appointments made. While the Minister present may not be guilty of that exercise, some of his coleagues have gone to great extremes to ensure the appointment of people to keep the Government's image right. I am sure there are people who will help the Minister at publishing this Bill and getting across what is perhaps an exaggerated image.

The Bill does not give us any information on what we might expect from the agency. I listened with interest to the Minister's speech today. The first point that came across clearly is that there are no new schemes envisaged. Innovations are non-existent. Admittedly the hope is there that the agency may add other schemes but there are no new schemes listed. The only schemes involved are those operated by the previous Government. I do not disagree with the Minister when he says there is a need for co-ordination and if I had had the time to carry out such co-ordination I would have done so. However, I am not so sure that all of this is not being used to a great extent as a public relations operation rather than improving the schemes, integrating, coordinating and expanding them.

There is one disturbing line in the Minister's speech to which I shall refer again. I ask him to explain in detail what he meant. The following sentence occurs in the speech:

I have accordingly opted for financing both existing and new schemes from the levy.

That is the most disappointing line in the whole speech. It now appears that AnCO and all the existing youth schemes will be funded from the 1 per cent collected from the workers, farmers and the self-employed. In other words, we are saving money for the Exchequer at the expense of these people and we discovered that for the first time this morning. In the programmes put forward last May, two individual programmes by the Labour Party and by Fine Gael, finishing with the joint programme, the now celebrated ‘Gaiety Document', youth unemployment was referred to in addition to the expansion of employment. The following appeared in that joint programme:

These employment creation measures will however, need to be supplemented by special provisions to deal with the acute problem of youth unemployment. The Government will establish without delay a Youth Employment Agency, to integrate and radically extend the schemes that exist at present under the separate auspices of the Department of Labour and Education.

The new Agency will have authority to move as rapidly as it physically can to the point where up to 20,000 young people who are without employment for six months will qualify for one or other of the following:

Training in AnCO

Participation in Work Experience Programme

Employment in Environmental Improvement Schemes

Employment in Community and Youth Work

Employment by voluntary social or community organisations

Assistance with the establishment of an enterprise.

The document goes on to say:

The cost of this scheme will be financed by a 1% Youth Employment Charge on all incomes, and by money from the EEC Social Fund, together with, in many cases, savings in unemployment assistance.

In the Minister's speech there is reference to the current year's activities and the expectation that during 1981 some 5,000 young people will take part in the Work Experience Programme of the National Manpower Service; that 10,000 young people will be trained in AnCO's general training programmes, with a further 2,000 apprentices; and that 1,700 young people will participate in AnCO's Community Youth Training Programme. The Minister stated a further 1,000 people have been engaged in schemes run by the Departments of Education and the Environment. That makes a total of 19,700 already. We have not been told if the 20,000 young people referred to in the Government's programme are additional to the 19,700. When I consider what would be obtained by way of the levy, I think that could be achieved quite easily from the financial point of view.

The levy will be 1 per cent on all incomes. The Minister estimates the yield at £63 million but I think he is somewhat pessimistic. If all the levy is collected it should exceed that figure. Some time ago I asked questions in the House of what the levy would yield from the self-employed and I was given the figure of £8 million. The levy on rents and other property income would bring in about £500,000; the levy on farmers' incomes would bring in about £7.5 million; proceeds from the levy on corporation profits would bring in about £10 million and the levy on all dividends would yield about £1.5 million. That gives a total in the region of £27.5 million. We must add that the contributions from PRSI and the insured workers would form a large portion of that contribution. In the contribution by employers to help ailing industries .2 per cent was estimated to raise by way of payroll tax somewhere in the region of £6.5 million. If we multiply that by five to bring us up to the amount of the levy we are talking in the region of £32 million. To this we must add the 1 per cent contribution from the civil service who are not included in the .2 per cent Employment Guarantee Fund levy and we are talking in the region of £40 million. In total we are nearer to £70 million than the £63 million mentioned by the Minister. He is being conservative in his estimate but he may be taking into consideration the difficulty in collecting the levy in some instances. We have a long way to go to add to that £70 million. As the Minister said, the European social fund contributes 55 per cent in certain areas for training young people. In some of the schemes it contributes £11 per week. I shall be conservative and take a figure of £40 million. Together with the £70 million, we are talking about funds in the region of £110 million. That is a major contribution. Are we not using the Exchequer funds which were made available for organisations such as AnCO? Are AnCO being funded from this levy?

The Minister said that he had opted for financing new and existing schemes from the levy. He should spell out clearly if this is the case. In reply to a question I asked the Minister about AnCO he said that the estimated expenditure on community youth training was £3.125 million and the total was somewhere in excess of £30 million. We are talking about £30 million plus being the current expenditure on AnCO and is the State's portion of that coming from the levy? This levy is a major fund handling exercise. The Minister said about £40 million will have been collected by the middle of next year. Is he handing over all the money for disbursement to AnCO, CERT, the National Manpower Service or what new arrangements are being made?

I am not opposed to this agency. I welcome the participation of youth. Is there a danger that it will involve heavy administration? We are dealing with a lot of money which, if handed over by the Minister to the agency, would demand a high administrative network. I should like to ensure on behalf of workers, farmers and self-employed people that the 1 per cent levy goes towards the functions it is intended for — youth employment and training — and not towards administration. Everybody who pays the levy is making a sacrifice. In the case of PRSI it is a sizeable additional burden. In addition to that the PRSI contribution is expected to go from 4.25 per cent to 6.25 per cent for those earning less than £8,500. All these increases will have a damaging effect on the take-home earnings of workers. That also applies to farmers and the self-employed.

The Bill gave details of the levy and of the establishment of the agency. Was consideration given to the National Manpower Service handling this? I found that body extremely efficient. Could they have been used to integrate and co-ordinate this scheme? The Minister should spell out if this was considered, why it was excluded and why he found this to be a better way. Can he guarantee that if this is a better way there will not be heavy administrative expenses involved? Is there another tier between the Minister, the agency and the AnCO council? The present structure is the Minister for Labour and the AnCO council. If the agency are funding the scheme is it the Minister for Labour, the agency and AnCO council? Where does the National Manpower Service fit in? Does the agency come between the Minister and that section of the Department or what is the relationship? Has thought been given to these items? We must be concerned about the most efficient way of having young people put into training and into employment. We may be introducing unnecessary administrative costs into the scheme. We will be pursuing the Minister about this.

We are asking workers to contribute substantially to this, we are talking about £100 million. In the joint policy on youth employment which emerged from the Gaiety there was a third contributing element which was hidden and that is the saving on unemployment assistance. Obviously there will be some saving. There appear to be many tiers and that is why I asked the Minister about the matter.

The hard, cold, tying hand of the Minister for Finance is going right through every section of the Bill. The Minister for Labour cannot move without the permission of the Minister for the Public Service — for the time being both offices are held by the one person — or without the permission of the Minister for Finance. Therefore, we have the Minister for Finance, the Minister for the Public Service, the Minister for Labour, an agency and the Manpower Service or AnCO or CERT or whatever group it may be. That ladder seems to have a great many steps on it from the operating scene to the final Minister at the top.

I am not surprised that the Minister for Finance has been given such a strong role in all of this. I suspect that I know which member of the Government fought hardest and strongest for that and I have no doubt that it was the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism, Deputy Kelly. The Minister will have heard so much of this at the Government table that I will be boring him in quoting that Minister in this House on 4 November because obviously it would be fresh in his mind. This Bill probably is still going backwards and forwards through the Government. The Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism said on that date, and I quote from the Official Report, column 1148, volume 330:

I want to end on a somewhat different note. There is no use in talking about job creation in the sense in which that term was understood by the former Government.

Later he said, as in column 1149:

Whether we are long or short in office, if we succeed in developing that form of job creation.

he was talking about the productive area——

I will be very proud. What is not job creation, except in the kind of terminology of an advertising agency, is throwing up a building, putting a lot of desks into it, and having many school leavers behind those desks shoving papers around at one another. That is not a job.

Again at column 1150:

Jobs for jobs' sake may be fine, but they have to be paid for by your neighbours. They have to be paid for by the people who are working productively.

I could quote much more. Those comments lead me to believe that here is one man in that Government who is determined that as many strings as possible will be attached to the final product of the Bill. This measure was promised to us as a matter of urgency at the time of the Gaiety Theatre meeting and here we are in the dying days of November on Second Stage in this House. Obviously, there was a lot of internal wrangling and disagreement in the Government.

Regarding the agency, I welcome particularly the idea of involvement of young representatives. I have no hang-up about not having an agency. I am not opposed to the idea of an agency and perhaps it would be right to have one in this, but has the Minister looked at the possible alternatives in an effort to ensure that whatever the grouping, be it the agency, the Manpower section of his Department or anything else, it would be the most economical and involve the least loss in administration costs? The funding also is very important. I am surprised that the composition of the agency is smaller than I would have thought suitable for those bodies. I would think that a body like the ICTU with varying interests would have felt entitled to a representation of three or four and certainly more than two. It would be in the interests of the Minister and the agency that such numbers would be accommodated because of the different interests they would represent in that important organisation. The Bill states that the directors of the agency shall be nominated for appointment by such bodies representative of employers as the Minister may determine. What two employer bodies are they? There are a number of them. How will the Minister overcome that? Will some employer organisation be left out? I am not saying this in the interests of the employer organisations or in the interest of the ICTU. I am saying it in the interests of the agency. Would it not be desirable that all the employer organisations — probably there are only three — would be represented?

The representatives of young persons are to be included. While the Minister does not say that it will be through the National Youth Council, I presume that that will be the case. Is that where the Minister will find these young people? The Bill does not say. I would not like it to be the sort of political appointments that have been made already by this Government in so many areas. Yesterday we saw the most dramatic step forward in patronage ever seen in this country. I accept that it was not by one of the Minister's party, it was by one of his colleagues in the senior party in Government. The Minister for Education, in order to protect his own interests in County Dublin, was prepared to bring his third adviser into the Department of Education. I want to make sure that the young people appointed will be appointed from an organisation such as the National Youth Council and that they will not be cronies of some Minister or Ministers thus making that party even more of a club.

The nomination of education representatives is desirable and important. The Minister in his speech this morning referred to the importance of linking training and education with the world of work. There is a role to play in that. In my time as Minister for Labour we made a lot of progress on the Manpower Consultative Committee and I urge the Minister to look at the reports on that. Some of the discussions that took place could well be of benefit to the agency in that very important field. I hope that during my time some progress was made on the road towards more co-operation between labour, education and industry. It is relevant to much of what the Minister has said and to the youth employment of the future because of the need for more technical and technological skills. Therefore, it is important that some representative of education would be included.

I am not sure of the necessity for a representative of the Department of the Environment. I am not reflecting on that Department. I appreciate that schemes exist under their aegis but I am not convinced that that Department should be represented on that agency. I feel that that is not the area to go to and if I was looking for a nominee possibly I would consider AnCO as the biggest agency in this area who have much experience and who possibly could make a contribution. The Minister has power to appoint three members and I expect they will come from the Department of Labour.

The unemployment figures have been worsening. I believe our policies were right, although a great deal of criticism is being deliberately levelled at them. As the Minister said, we have a growing population and there is a downturn in the population of our European partners. Our population growth is ten times the EEC average and we have a youth employment problem which is far greater than that of our European partners. There is an increase in the number of school leavers coming on our employment markets each year and that will be the case for the next decade and beyond it.

I suggest it is not a saving but a very extravagant measure to cut back in this area, particularly by not filling posts in the public service. I do not know what the situation is in the civil service but last week the Minister for Finance answered my question about unfilfilled vacancies in State bodies and he said there were almost 700 unfilled vacancies in that area since the 21 July embargo. The Minister for Labour is the person who will have to defend the employment figures. Although some of his colleagues will have a far greater contribution to make towards employment they will leave him to defend that situation.

I was interested to see the leader of the Labour Party recently painting a depressing picture of the unemployment situation. If one continually paints a depressing picture one can only worsen an already serious situation because people must have hope. In last Saturday's The Irish Times he referred to the impossibility of the unemployment figure coming below 125,000. Six weeks earlier in an article in the Evening Herald he referred to a figure of 100,000. In six weeks his predictions have become much worse.

We cannot shy away from the problem of youth employment. I am not objecting to this Bill but I hope we can improve it. The money being provided here will come from the ordinary people and it must be used well, but one must ask if it is the right strategy to leave posts unfilled, particularly at a time when white-collar jobs are scarce and we are going through a recession. In future there will be more employment in the technological blue collar area. Office jobs will be scarcer and in times of recession this situation will be even more acute. These matters must be taken into consideration by the Government and they must decide whether this is an extravagant exercise. The Minister might say 700 jobs are not very many, but I do not agree, because it can make a great difference to certain areas throughout the country. That is the situation in the public sector and I assume there are more vacancies in the civil service.

What will be the cost of administering this new agency? How many will be employed? Is there a lopsided situation here where there is a big intake into one area, and no recruitment in another? The Minister will say that this is the area of youth employment and that it is very important and I agree, but there are other extremely important areas which are being ignored.

I have heard Deputies challenge some of my colleagues about not making adequate provisions in the Estimates. The number of times we have escaped without introducing Supplementary Estimates has been few and far between. If the Government do not fill posts in the civil service and in State bodies and run down the number of teaching jobs, then they are creating a bigger problem for the agency we are setting up here because more young people will be without jobs.

I have already referred to the leader of the Labour Party's recent comments. I remember when I was in Government in 1977 being pilloried from these benches from the then Deputy Kelly, Deputy Mitchell and Deputy Bruton about the type of jobs we were creating. They said they were not real jobs. Yet now the same schemes are being operated by this Minister. I am not objecting to this, but I wish to draw the attention of the House to this typical about-turn and hypocritical approach of those three Ministers. The difference here is that the Irish worker, the Irish farmer and the Irish self-employed are paying for these schemes.

I should now like to deal with the question of the levy. The Government have made so many U-turns since last June that it is hard to know what portion of their policies is being implemented. Daily we read of leaks to the national newspapers from the Government and it appears that the Government Information Services are working hard selling the right line and giving the right slant on Government policies. We are all aware of the leaks about the tax package. The latest indications are that it may be phased in, if it is introduced at all, and I should like to know how the PAYE sector will fare as a result. Will such people who are being asked to pay the 1 per cent per year under this legislation be given a reduction as promised during the election campaign? At that stage such people were offered a reduction in their income tax but now we are not certain if that package is going ahead. Our people should be told what the situation is particularly if they must pay this 1 per cent levy. We must also bear in mind that the cost of the tax package, as a result of the Government's change in policy, will not be as big as was originally anticipated. What will be done with the saving?

The quality of the explanatory memorandum was disappointing. Those who are interested in Bills like this are entitled to a better explanation of the various details. Any Bill represents a difficult reading exercise and that is why an explanatory memorandum is necessary. It would be an insult to the general public to repeat the type of expanatory memorandum that accompanied this Bill. According to section 1 (2) the Minister may by regulations define "reckonable earnings", "reckonable emoluments" and "reckonable income". I should like to know what is meant by "reckonable income". Does it mean gross income or is it gross income less something? Is it more than gross income? I have not come across that term before in any legislation. Why is the word "reckonable" used? Has the Minister power to change the mechanism used for reckoning an income as he sees fit? What is to prevent the Minister from calling it "gross plus"? I am not saying the Minister will do that and I would be surprised if he did but he has a duty to explain the phrase "reckonable income". What I have said about income applies equally to emoluments and earnings. I will deal with that in more detail on Committee Stage.

Section 4 states that the memorandum of association of the agency shall be in such form consistent with the Act as shall be approved of by the Minister with the consent of the Minister for Finance and the Minister for the Public Service. The Government have certainly allowed the shackles to be put on the Minister for Labour. I would fight that a little harder if I was in the Minister's position. The same applies in other sections. The main section is section 15 which deals with the levy. That section states:

There shall be paid, subject to and in accordance with this Act and regulations under this Act, by or in respect of an individual who is over the age of sixteen years, a levy (which shall be known as "Youth Employment Levy" and is in this Act referred to as "levy") to defray the expenditure of the Youth Employment Agency in the performance of its functions and such other expenditure in relation to the training and employment of young persons as the Minister may determine with the consent of the Minister for Finance.

There again we have the cold hand of the Department of Finance. Next year it may be decided that the levy should be 1.5 per cent or 2 per cent and that should not be ruled out. The Minister may say that will not happen today but it represents a distinct possibility because it appears that it is the Minister for Finance who has the power. I should like to get some explanation about the payment of the levy. This morning the Minister said that he would be introducing an amendment on Committee Stage in relation to some payments from health boards he feels may be caught under the section. If that is the case we will co-operate with him.

Sections 17 and 18 refer to the payment of levy by individuals with emoluments other than reckonable earnings and the payment of levy by individuals with income other than emoluments. What is all that about? Is there something sinister in those sections? For example, what about the justified expenses of a worker? Will such expenses be included? Is it merely a legal formality or do those sections cover some specific group? I notice that under section 19 the Minister may, by regulations, vary the rate of levy. I presume that he may vary it from year to year but I believe that strengthens the point I made earlier that there is no guarantee once this is introduced at 1 per cent that it will not become 1½ per cent or 2 per cent as time goes on.

I should like more information from the Minister about how it is proposed to collect the levy from certain groups. There is no problem about the PAYE sector, they are the easy target, but how about the self-employed, farmers or those with property? What I am afraid of is that an adequate effort will not be put into collecting the levy from those it will be difficult to collect from. There is no problem about the PAYE sector and there should be little problem with others in the tax net but are there others who will not be pursued? I fear that because the collection is so big there may be a reluctance by the Government to follow such people. The Government may say that it is not worth pursuing such people because they are doing so well with other sectors. The revenue collected will amount to between £60 million and £70 million, added to by a substantial contribution from the social fund.

The Minister has explained about payment to this body by grant-in-aid. Am I to understand that this levy will go through the machinery of the Social Insurance Fund, because he said in his Second Reading reply that he was not setting up a special fund? Does it go on then to the agency? While I appreciate that he has taken controls unto himself in paying it to the agency, I should like a more detailed explanation of how that income is collected and paid over. He went into detail that accounts must be prepared by the agency which, of course, is essential. But I am somewhat worried in all of this about growing costs of administration and unnecessary tiers being added to the structures.

Section 30 reads:

30—(1) The expenses incurred by the Minister or by any other Minister of the Government other than the Minister for Finance in the administration of this Act shall, to such extent as may be sanctioned by the Minister for Finance, be paid out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas.

(2) The expenses incurred by the Minister for Finance in the administration of this Act shall be paid out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas.

Is the levy about which the Minister speaks included in that category and is that money regarded as income collected by the Oireachtas? I am not sure and I should like some clarification.

Section 31 reads:

31—This Act shall come into operation on such day or days as may be fixed by order or orders made by the Minister either generally or with reference to a particular purpose or provision, and different days may be so fixed for different purposes and provisions of this Act.

The usual terminology applies there as to when the Act might come into operation. When is that hoped-for date? When will the agency be established? What specific involvement will there be in the Estimates of the Minister's Department for the provision of grant-in-aid for AnCO, CERT or whoever? If the Minister is right in what he said in his Second Reading speech those grants-in-aid will now go to the agency rather than the Department.

I look forward to Committee Stage when we shall have an awful lot of work to do on this Bill. I am somewhat afraid that the good points are being highlighted. I hope that the money promised to be collected for youth employment is not now being used unfairly, incorrectly or not in accordance with the commitments given because, if it is going into existing schemes, then an awful lot of it is being absorbed. The Minister himself in the House spoke about 18,000 to 20,000 or so availing of the schemes this year. The document that emanated from the Gaiety Theatre spoke about 20,000. Are the 20,000 about which the Minister speaks an additional 20,000? In the Labour Party programme placed before the Gaiety Theatre meeting they guaranteed participation in one or other of those schemes — or a combination of them — for three years to a person out of work for three months. Does that guarantee still apply?

I would ask the Minister also to ensure that extreme care is taken so that there is no abuse of the schemes. I am sure he is as aware as I am that there is always the danger of the irresponsible or not so good employer who might like to play a system and who could perhaps avail of the contribution when a person has been out of work for six months. Did the Minister say, or is there a guarantee if the young person is out of work for six months?

We are not opposing the Bill because anything done in the interests of youth employment will have our support but we have grave reservations about the Bill as it now stands.

Is mian liom, ar an gcéad dul síos, fáiltiú roimh an mBille seo. Dar ndóigh, tá tábhacht ag baint leis, go háirithe toisc go mbaineann sé leis an bhfadhb is mó, fadhb shoisialta, fadhb eacnamaíochta is mó na laethanta seo, is é sin fadhb na dí-fhostaíochta, agus go háirithe toisc go mbaineann sé leis an chuid den fhadhb sin a bhaineann le daoine óga. Mar a dúirt mé, fáiltím roimh an mBille de bharr na fáthanna sin.

I welcome this Bill and also the Minister's introductory remarks this morning. The Bill deals with the problem of youth unemployment against the background of the unemployment problem generally.

The first point I want to make is that those of us who work in Leinster House should welcome any opportunity of discussing the unemployment problem in general terms. Basically we are confronted each week and month with the problems of individual factories, individual work places and individual parts of industry that are experiencing difficulties with resultant job losses. But too rarely have we an opportunity of putting all of these experiences together and dealing with the unemployment problem as an aspect of economic performance. While we may look to Question Time and particular questions raised about local difficulties, aggregation of these is not a sufficient substitute for dealing with the problem of unemployment. Within the unemployment problem generally undoubtedly the part to which a great deal of attention has been devoted within the European Community, outside it and indeed in this country, has been that of the unemployment statistics comprised of the numbers of young people.

I was impressed by the honesty with which the Minister presented the size of the youth unemployment problem in his introductory remarks. There is no point in running away from this problem in terms of its size or proportion, in terms of the challenge it poses and, in that regard, the Minister's speech is welcome for its factual content.

There are a number of points I should like to make concerning the assumptions contained in the Minister's remarks, ones drawn from different emphases I shall make myself in relation to manpower planning and which may differ from some of the advice available to the Minister. They are not ones of substantive principle but rather of emphasis.

One cautionary note I would strike at the very outset is that all the youth employment strategies in the world, all the work experience programmes and all the guarantees given to young people are not a sufficient substitute for adequate approaches to the unemployment problem. I believe — and I place on the record of this House — that we will never see an approach toward the elimination of serious levels of unemployment, and indeed serious levels of youth unemployment, until we have made a commitment to planning our economy. Certainly it is far from being a reflection on the Minister who introduced this Bill here today to say that his Bill would have had so very much more merit had it been preceded by adequate planning measures within the economy. When economic historians write about the modern Irish economy they will record the impressions of the abolition of the planning process as a particularly sad part in recent Irish economic history. It is striking to think that the First Programme for Economic Expansion 1958-1963 was criticised because of its insufficient reference to such matters as manpower planning.

The third programme was praised for its concession to social priorities and particularly its observations in relation to manpower needs. We are now, in the eighties, further away from a deep commitment to the planning process than we were in those years. I mention this because I think that previous administrations — certainly the previous administration that abolished the formal planning Department — bear a great deal of responsibility and will be judged harshly by our future economic historians. How can one speak about accepting the target of reducing unemployment and using a mix of interventionary measures, a mixed economy model of the economy, without commitment to planning? The point I am simply making this morning is that if the Minister's measures were being introduced against a backdrop of planning procedures in existence, of planning measures being assessed, it would have so much more force, because the impact on youth unemployment would then be able to be related to employment achievements generally and these could be related to different forms of activity within the Irish economy.

It is accurate, as the Minister has pointed out, to seek to relate the youth unemployment problem to the background of employment in general by looking at the peculiar structure of Irish society at the present time. Basically, if we are honest we must see that the last decade, in particular the recent years, has shown that the employment possibilities within agriculture have continued to shrink. This is due to a number of reasons: the increased capitalisation of Irish agriculture, the peculiar form of response to opportunities within the EEC which has led to responses to increases in volume in turn responding to increases in prices; and there is, of course, the lack of attractiveness so often reported in different accounts of prospects of life within farming itself, with both its limited possibilities and also the question of the insecurity which attaches to a lifetime devoted to agriculture. Whatever the reasons — and I think we can elicit and order them without much dispute — the fact is that employment opportunities within agriculture have continued to contract. At the same time there has been a somewhat disproportionate increase in the total employment opportunities within the service sector and there has been a massive increase in population, in the number of people who are within the young sections of population. We are faced then with the reality of comparing our industrial strategy and its achievement in relation to employment against the only test of its efficacy in political and human terms: how close is it to provision of the total number of jobs required? Here we can discern, both in general and employment terms; a shortfall between the industrial strategy's performance and the total number of jobs required, and the most serious section of that shortfall to which this Bill this morning addresses itself is the question of the implications for the employment of young people.

I would like to take up a few points that have been made by the Minister and I will take the ones with which I would agree for a start. I certainly think that he has behaved courageously in bringing in this Bill quickly, even though it can be amended in a number of ways if required. But the Bill is welcome because it expresses an emphasis with which I would most strongly agree. That is, we cannot wait until the economy turns around, until there are some signs of recovered economic growth, to begin preparing employment strategies for young people, education and training experience programmes and measures like that. To do so would be to commit the industrial workforce, but particularly those who may not yet have even had the experience of working within industry, to the whims and fluctuations of the economy. It would be putting the performance of the economy, in relation to its external performance in achieving export-led growth, as the principal priority and looking at what its performance might be by way of consequences; and these would be in turn related to the employment prospects of young people.

The Minister has it right in that I see in the speech the tacit acceptance of the logic that times of economic recession and times when there are no prospects of significant levels of growth are times for, instead of retreating from commitments to training and development, increasing resources and investing them in training and development. That logic is right both in the short term and in the long term. It is right in the short term because if there is to be a return to growth, that growth will be achieved by the productive capacity of people who are working. Their productive capacity will be in turn conditional upon adequacy and extent, the range and diversity of the training, development and educational skills that they have achieved. I also think that in the long term the logic is correct. Ireland, whether we like it or not — and we often sit with the more affluent nations and like to pretend that we have arrived on the world stage in circumstances that often belie our economic reality — is yet a relatively underdeveloped economy and the long term reason for investing in training and education and development and such experience as will enhance the overall development of people who will be working in ten years' time is that this is the most appropriate strategy of a manpower kind for an undeveloped economy to have as it faces the new restructured world economy.

The alternative is that the traditional economy would be perceived as having the capacity of returning to growth, that such a return to growth would create industrial conditions and employment consequences that would in turn be visited back upon our economy through a number of years. The whole argument of the undeveloped economies of the world in relation to the new world economic strategy which is being negotiated is that they are seeking short cuts to development; and one of the surest short cuts to development is to put resources massively into the area of training, development and education. It means simply that one is not committed historically or in development terms to forcing oneself tediously through the trajectory of experience of the existing developed economies of the world. It means that the young population which we have now becomes a massive resource, if handled properly, to short circuit a number of the stages of achieving conditions in the economy, conditions in society which traditional and disproved economic theory would have suggested was impossible. The classical economic model of development, when it spoke in the past of employment and youth unemployment, tended to suggest that we had inexorably to move through a series of stages and that these stages were imitative of the experience of existing developed economies. It has been rejected; it has been proved wrong. One of the ways by which all of the new economies are assuring that they can achieve things and hope for things in the decades ahead is that where they hold the resource of young population, such as we do to an extraordinary degree within Europe, they enhance that resource with training, skills and educational experience and can move quickly past several of the stages of undevelopment which the other traditional economies had historically to experience.

There is an assumption in the speech with which I want to quibble. It is almost peripheral to the main substance of the speech but nevertheless exists within it. This is in the relationship between training and development and education.

I would welcome an assurance from the Minister that where training in development and experience are envisaged, the relationship will enhance education. Unfortunately people have sought to pose traditional education experience in tension with technological experience and technological education. I entirely reject that. I want to relate this to my previous point about the possible overall strategy and the place of employment in manpower forecasts, within it. As far back as 15 years ago, undeveloped countries were beginning to reject short-term training aids from developed economies. They could see that such aids locked them into an exploitable relationship with developed countries. This came to a head in 1974 at the United Nations Conference in Training Development in Nairobi which concerned itself with technology transfer. The message given by the undeveloped economies to the world at that stage was "We want investment in fundamental education so that we can make the new discoveries in science, so that we can be innovative, can relate to technology, to scientific discovery in a way that existing economies cannot. We want to have the right to do that, rather than be given pieces of technology which are obsolescent and already dated and which will commit us to an under-labourer relationship with the developed world for the rest of our historic experience." They were asking for investment, so that they might have possibilities of research in fundamental science or fundamental education.

It has been one of the tragedies within the discussion of the manpower needs of our economy that people within the technological sector have felt it necessary to suggest that they are in competition for scarce resources with their traditional academic institutions. The Minister said that the emphasis of our education system is now strongly on academic rather than vocational skills and that while some efforts have been made to remedy this imbalance, they have lacked real conviction and consequently their impact has not been significant. It is important, however, to be careful about parts of the traditional educational system which have responded and those which have not. The university sector, for example, will be providing, at the end of the nineties, it is forecast, over half of the engineers required in this country, presuming that enrolment in engineering training at third level colleges which are not universities will continue at the existing rate and that we will have no increase in university places. It is the greatest foolishness to suggest that the universities lack the capacity, or the will, to provide for these placings. This is an unfortunate tension which has no logic behind it. It does not serve the cause of rational development of our educational system that people feel they want to make a point for the advancement of the technological centre in third level education at the cost of the universities.

There is a point where the Minister's speech is precisely accurate. However, rather than being the educational system, it is the parental attitudes which lie behind the educational system which are responsible. There are, as is well known, three or four scholarly studies which put it beyond doubt that there is a prejudice in Ireland against industrial work. In the rural areas the studies which are important are those of Dr. Morrin in the Galway Gaeltacht, which assessed the attitude of school leavers towards employment in the end of the sixties. This was preceded by the work of Mary Mulligan, again within the Tuam area, followed in the seventies by a work in North Mayo by the Irish Foundation for Human Development. All those studies produced a set of almost common results which would make it foolish to want to replicate them in other respects.

People in rural Ireland were asked the general questions: "What do you think will change areas around here? What hopes are there for an area like this?" Most people said: "Industries and work in factories". However, there has never been less than 60 per cent of parents unwilling to allow their children to have the opportunity of working in factories. The common man's logic from that is that people are in favour of industrialisation — the factory system — provided other people's children go through the motions of making the factories and industrial experience work. These three crucially important studies in looking at the transformation of our society and, particularly, the adjustment from agriculture to industrialisation, have been followed by more tentative work on limited samples in the last five years, which suggest that there is an erosion of these attitudes and a discernible change. An extensive survey now would probably show that attitudes are changing.

The studies I have quoted were of rural areas, without the experience of industrialisation, with parents lacking such experience being asked to express an opinion on the basis of something which they have never experienced. At all times in urban areas — towns and particularly, cities — one would have an entirely different set of attitudes. It is to those that I would like to turn to make another point.

If we look at the fit between the educational system and manpower and behind the educational system, there is another cautionary note which I would urge on the Minister and his advisers. There is a body of opinion which suggests that the experience within the educational system is not as neatly related to job requirements and experience as is commonly assumed. Much more than is traditionally believed of the requirements of jobs, is, in fact, learned on the jobs themselves. Many people like myself who are interested in equality in society have asked the question: "If you have missed out in the educational system, does this inevitably mean that you have missed out in earning capacity for the rest of your life, in the lifestyle to which you will have access and the security which you might hope for? There is no real connection. The opening point of employment tends to look for people with particular educational skills, even though these are completely unrelated to the skills required in the performance of the job. It is not that there is a neat fit between participation in one set of structures and an automatic participation in another. There is a point at which real sets of prejudices are very logically intervened. One could very well argue that if we had a more pragmatic approach towards the filling of particular kinds of jobs, we could very clearly establish that this differential participation in education need not be discriminatory.

I have defended the universities' contribution towards the educational system, but such a tragically low proportion of our population participate in third level education. Our tax structure and our ability to contribute to the tax requirements of the country's revenue are very democratic. They spread across the board. However, participation in the educational institutions is far from democratic. Whereas every practical working man and woman can contribute to the revenue which will fund education, perhaps as little as one in seven of the children of people below the professional categories will participate in third level education.

We see professions repeating and reproducing themselves on a mixture of scarce access to third level institutions and carefully inculcated prejudices in relation to recruitment and notions as to what is the appropriate content of a role within a profession or within a factory. All of these attitudes must be undone.

I welcome this Bill and the Minister's introductory speech. It would have been wrong to wait for the developments I mentioned earlier in relation to planning. It would be foolish to say that because the planning structures do not exist and because we cannot fit employment and manpower needs within a coherent version of our economic options we should hold up this legislation. I commend the Minister on the speed with which he has brought forward this matter.

I would urge the Minister to liaise as much as possible with the Department of Justice. As a member of the prison reform group when studying aspects of crime I was struck very forcibly by the relationship between youth unemployment and the crime statistics. It is interesting that the general curse of unemployment lies so dreadfully behind crime statistics. When we hear that the crime rates are going up our usual attitude is to look for more sources of vigilance. What we need to do is intervene in the life prospects of the people becoming involved in crime. Some of the surveys carried out in the inner Dublin area show that 85 per cent of all young people involved in crime have not had the experience of even one of their parents having had a full-time occupation for three years previous to their involvement with the police. Employment measures are very much better than measures of control. The more resources are put into the area of employment the less likely we are to waste scarce resources in custodial responses to crime rates we might have prevented had we better structured our society in the beginning.

Regarding the description of the precise measures which will be introduced under this Bill, I differ from Deputy Gene Fitzgerald in the emphasis he gives to existing schemes and the suggested new schemes. It would not be useful to dissociate ourselves from what we have. The experience of existing schemes indicates a need for integration and for greater flexibility in funds. We should add the new measures to these schemes. This approach is probably the better one.

In my capacity as a public representative I have had dealings with the different agencies within education and training and manpower and I have always been impressed by the openness with which they deal with inquiries. One gets the impression of a modern service dealing with a modern problem in a relatively open way. The reports of the manpower service, particularly during the past two or three years, show the speed with which inquiries are handled and the efficiency of turnover between inquiries and placements. If it were not for the fact that the general tide of unemployment is almost swamping this service, we could say that here we have an example of a very modern and efficient aspect of the public service.

I would ask Members who might be reluctant to support this Bill to compare experience within the manpower service with the experience of looking for unemployment benefit or assistance. I urge the Minister to ensure that the new services will have a modern ambiance and will be built on what has come to be known of the Department of Labour and the manpower service in recent years rather than on the traditional form of interview. I have been appalled to find that in the eighties the "hatch" phenomenon still exists in our society, the notion that if you are in receipt of some benefit you must present yourself in circumstances which are very different from those in any other office. I pay tribute to the exceptional circumstances which prevail in the offices of the manpower service. I hope the new services will be administered in a modern setting so that young people can sit down and be advised and express choices within options. I have often felt that we as politicians would have a different life if our relationships with the public had been transformed in a modern way.

I note reference in the Minister's speech to the similarity between the measures he is to introduce and the measures which exist by way of a guarantee system in Scandinavian countries. Some years ago I visited offices in Sweden administering these schemes and was impressed by the manner in which options were explained sensitively to young people in a modern setting.

If we have backward attitudes in relation to the kinds of people we think should be working within factories, we sometimes have equally backward attitudes in relation to youth unemployment. There is a dangerous notion abroad that as long as young people are doing anything then something has been achieved. This is a disgraceful heritage of poor law thinking from the last century. In our failed social revolution we took over much of that thinking in relation to social services and we managed not to change the institutional structures. Our idea was that people should be doing work of sufficient hardship, worse than any other work that might be available. People often talk about the kind of tasks they feel it would be appropriate for young people to carry out.

It would be a complete tragedy if we were to wait for economic growth to introduce legislation dealing with the training of young people. Within the next two decades the world of work as we know it will change completely. There is evidence that the trend elsewhere of people doing more than one job in the course of a lifetime will be followed here. The working week will shorten and the working day will change its structure. Great flexibility will be required in relation to changes within work and in leisure. Anybody who suggests any short-term measures of an occupational kind without a training content, or with a training content but without a sufficient educational content, will be incapacitating young people for the circumstances in which they will find themselves in the decades ahead.

That is why I stress the importance of a sound educational base, because above all else there will be need for flexibility in making decisions, flexibility of choice in making the adjustments I mentioned between work and non-work; there will be need for flexibility in making choices between the form and adjustments in conditions within work. Here I will refer to a point that is, in a way, the most contentious in the Minister's speech. It is in relation to his reference to technology.

I do not believe that even in five years we will be at the mercy of technology, as many people would like to put it. It is possible, by the right investment of resources in education, to control technology. The Minister referred to the National Development Corporation. I would urge him to use what influence he has to ensure that the innovative potential of technology will be harnessed within the National Development Corporation. If that takes place it will make many things possible. I am talking about new instrumental ways to look at work and productivity in a well-educated population creating new conditions for growth. To do it the other way is to take the return to growth as the prior and necessary condition for performance in the economy, and to see industrial strategy as something that will be given. The problem is to relate a human population to the skills and requirements of industry. To do that would be to lock ourselves into backwardness going into the next century, something we should not do.

This is a practical implication of this legislation. It means that when young people come for advice, for training, for experience, for development, the greatest care must be taken to have the imaginative requirements of such people met, their genuine desire to develop themselves as complete confident persons participating in society met. It is not directly implicit in the Minister's speech, but in other speeches I have read it is inferred. I wish people would stop speaking of the gap between the aspirations of young people and the requirements of industry as it exists at present as a problem for young people. It is a problem for industry because if you are to say that the imagination and the aspiration to live and to work in an entirely new way must go overboard so that industry will chug along through its tedious relationships with technology and in turn towards its outdated relationship with fundamental science, you are putting historical forces of a non-human kind before human requirements.

I believe that investment in science and technology is not a utopian dream. It has happened in other countries. The previous connection between science and technology has meant that technology became available in a private enterprise model of industrial revolution and industrial development. The result was that after its application certain kinds of employment became possible. It is now quite the other way: If macro-economic planning is built into a master economic plan, technology and the resources of science can be used and combined in such agencies as the National Development Corporation so as to serve employment needs. I believe that will be the character of the next industrial revolution. The thinking along the lines of growth occurring in improved conditions, and whether we have people doing the right and most useful things, is nostalgic of an old and exploited industrial order that is already on its last legs and that will not return.

Therefore, when people speak as the Minister has done of the interaction that must exist between those responsible for the formulation of educational training policies and those who chart the course of industrial development in the years ahead, they are talking of a very big frame. For a start, who wants to make suggestions about what the industrial investment strategy in the years ahead will be? I suggest tentatively that when we are looking for industry in the decades ahead we have a choice to go on competing with the manpower we have, given its existing skill levels, or the possibility of speeding up those skill levels and going forth ensuring that people who will work in Irish society will be highly qualified technically but, more important, generally and in a way which will give them adaptable and adapted skills. This would mean that on the form of industrial human labour relationships of the next 20 years we will have far greater amounts, in proportion to capital, related to individual units of labour. The kind of industrialisation which might be captured by Ireland in its industrialisation strategy will be a qualitatively different one from that which we have been glad to accept in the past. This means developing skills in a general and forward-looking way.

I would welcome creative interaction between the world of the educationalists and of those planning manpower development, but it is time to put an end to this offensive nonsense that if you are doing something that has not immediate utility in terms of market value you are wasting your time. To accept this thinking is to try to run this country as some kind of Taiwan in terms of our attitude to labour. The argument is that at any time when anybody has an opportunity to improve herself or himself, that is an appropriate and good educational exercise. The arguments are easily disputed in all the published research of people who have been given this task in Europe, in the US and in Canada. They show, one after another, that where industrial ventures have been managed entirely by people with narrow engineering skills, and those alone, there has been massive loss of productivity in terms of ability to relate to workforces, but that people who had broader and more general educational skills were very attractive people in relation to taking complex decisions in regard to workforces, in relation to forward planning and to the whole environments in which people work.

I urge as strongly as I can that there would be no commitment to narrowness in terms of education or training schemes. For example, I will make what might be thought of as an eccentric suggestion. There are many young people now reared in a cultural environment completely different from that which preceded us. If those young people come to some agency responsible for planning, for giving training, for developing new future skills, if they want to form theatre companies, to form bursaries for music training, for training in the many forms of dance, if they want to get involved in public entertainment, they should be helped because the strategy of approaching young people and their employment needs will be measured by its narrowness or its richness. I should like to think that the very best in a person is what will be the important criterion.

At this point I will make my own contribution in honest comment in regard to the implication of these schemes. Unfortunately, there is some evidence that in times of recession people who have contributed, often by statutory requirement, by way of levy to different forms of training, seek to be relieved of what they regard as the burden of that levy so that the State money can go straight towards relieving them of their difficulties without having to carry the cost of training, development and the different kinds of youth schemes. I urge the Minister to confront that thinking as strongly as possible because it is in times of economic recession that, above all else, we need to invest in the expansion of skills rather than the opposite.

I wish to make one last point to the Minister. I had hoped it would have been possible to have some representative from the Department of Justice on the overall agency and to manage a liaison there. When the Commission on Penal Reform was carrying out surveys into the employment background of young persons who ran into difficulties with the law one of the persons who most impressed me was a senior school attendance officer, a multi-purpose person who had to deal with the school, the mother of the child in difficulties, an unemployed alcoholic father in one case, and with the child. It has been said that if all the agencies with which young persons deal could be integrated that would be of great benefit. It is possible to think of the great waste of effort involved where schemes like the schemes we are discussing exist at one level and young persons in difficulties in communities exist at another level, without any precise link between them. I share the fears about bureaucracy expressed by the Opposition spokesman, Deputy Fitzgerald, although I would not go all the way with him. However, it is important that the services we are providing should go where they are most needed.

There are just a few points I feel I should make in relation to the question of education generally. I am bothered by the tendency when the question of the young unemployed is discussed to suggest that those in particular difficulty are those who have left school at a very early age and now have a disability in relation to the marketing of the very few skills that they have having regard to the shrinking job opportunities. This assumption is not tenable. There should be every opportunity for a return to education for those who have left early. After experience of employment or training of a particular kind, re-entry to the educational system should be made possible so that people can take as much advantage as possible from the mixture of experience and training. Linked in with the Minister's proposals should be more general proposals for continuing education.

I want to end on the point on which I began. I believe we have a fractured view of the relationship between the economy and human skills when we speak about jobs in the white-collar section and jobs in the blue-collar section. The general problem of unemployment casts its shadow across measures like this. We have to look at the structure of the economy. Our unemployment problems derive in substantial measure from the narrow productive section within the Irish economy generally and the vast speculative sector.

It is interesting that the levy here will be funded by a number of sources within the economy. Deputy Gene Fitzgerald is particularly concerned about the fact that PAYE workers will be caught with little opportunity for escape. I am sure that many people who pay PAYE taxation will welcome the provision of opportunities for young persons to be trained for employment.

There is the question of the speculative nature of portion of the economy. Between the 1970's and 1980's this section of the economy have evaded tax and have lost us employment opportunities. Senator T. K. Whitaker, scarcely a Marxist or a socialist or dangerous radical, spoke in 1973 about the tendency which had arisen in 1971 of new holding companies quoted on the Irish Stock Exchange buying companies and then, having sold these companies, moving on to other companies. He correctly made the point that the whole exercise is predicated on inflation. As capital values began to increase at a faster rate in proportion to earned income, the more you kept on at this exercise the more speculative wealth was created. Senator Whitaker, in 1973, raised the question whether it was a good thing and — his words, not mine — whether it was even a moral thing. Nevertheless, the companies that have indulged in this vast speculative investment have been rewarded with the accolades of society. If you consider the share gain performance as they move from company to company you will find that the total job losses the community suffered were in the thousands. In other words, on one side there is vast accumulated private gain, largely non-taxed, and, on the other side of the account, an increase in the volume of unemployment that will have to be provided for out of the public purse in terms of unemployment benefit, retraining and the provision of new jobs. A crucial factor in relation to all legislation like this is the speculative nature of the Irish economy.

There is a lesson in what we have heard this morning, that it is through State agencies and State initiative that the innovations will come in relation to training and development. It is true that Irish industrial performance where it has not been assisted by the State has been seriously deficient. This Bill is just one new State measure. Measures like this designed to produce a better trained, more broadly educated people, will make possible the extension of the productive component of the economy and it is in that sense that I welcome the Bill.

I repeat that this legislation would have much more force if it had come in against a background of planning structures and planning legislation. It would be wrong to fault the Minister in that connection and it would be absurd to suggest that his alacrity and energy in bringing in a measure of this kind, which I welcome, should be penalised by having to wait for planning legislation. I would urge him very strongly to consider the importance of integrating all these measures into the planning process, particularly the social part of the planning process. Otherwise, what will happen after a few years of successive schemes like this, is the uncertainty that an unplanned largely speculative economy will offer, that maybe, when the market expands and export growth has returned, there will be employment.

We have to confront the economic structures and it is in the shoddy thinking which props up the economic structures that the problem lies. The population is young. The arguments are made in the Minister's speech that long after expansion has flattened out in Europe and work processes are becoming dated, we will continue to have an expanding young workforce. At that stage the choice will be between the quality of that workforce and the skills and education and training it carries contrasted with an old shrinking workforce, or, if we had done it the other way, if we had said that the young must put up with what the economy will bear, we will have an eviscerated young workforce and we will have missed our opportunity.

I welcome the Bill. I differ from Deputy Higgins when he speaks about education. A very high percentage of our population is under 25 years of age and many of them have not yet drawn a wage packet so let us forget about education for the moment and talk about a system which will provide employment for those people.

The Minister is vague as to how the levy will be collected from self-employed and professional people. I have no hesitation in saying that people who pay PRSI will not mind doing so if it means providing jobs. Successive Governments did not take advantage of the boom period in the early seventies, when we had the benefits of agricultural and other exports to the EEC, to provide for the future. Consequently, we now have a young, growing population and no employment for them. The agencies which the Minister suggested should make application to the Youth Employment Agency are the IDA, the National Manpower Service, the Department of the Environment and the Department of Education. The National Manpower Service must play a greater role than at present. Agents employed by the State take the names of people who register as unemployed but make no effort to ensure that such people will be given an opportunity to work when employment becomes available. The service is being used by employers who send out lists to the National Manpower Service and if an employer is looking for extra staff, a person registered as unemployed should be given an opportunity of getting work.

Recently in the north Cork area a grant of £47,000 was made under the environmental scheme. That is a small amount of money yet it had the effect of helping to create employment. In each local authority area there is a massive amount of work to be done but the money to pay people to do it is not available. In the case of young people who are at present going to employment exchanges to sign qualification certificates for unemployment assistance and subjected to a means test, some are disallowed completely and others are allowed £2.50 or £3 per week. Young people want work. This vast amount which will reach £63 million in 1982, with a contribution of £40 million from the State, must be used.

The Minister referred to the National Development Corporation. He should also have included the co-operative movement because we must recognise that it is through their efforts that new jobs can be created. We have failed in the past to develop our natural resources. We could create jobs on the land, in forestry, mines, fisheries and bogs through a planned co-operative effort. There is evidence to show there is now more interest in the co-operative movement. That is the way to create jobs. Building and repair of houses means jobs. We should be talking about basic down to earth things like that.

We are sitting on an economic time bomb at present. Productivity has fallen, inflation is rising and unemployment is nearing 130,000. Most of our ordinary private companies are either making a loss or heading towards it. The mid-1981 figure for youth unemployment is 40,000 between the ages of 15 and 25. That means that 26 per cent or 27 per cent of the total unemployment figure falls into the category of young people. That places us very firmly close to the top of the EEC league for youth unemployment. 10.6 per cent of our working population cannot get employment — the figure at present stands at 129,200, an increase of 2,000 on the September figure — compared with 11½ per cent in Britain. In October 1981 the EEC seemed to be heading for the crisis figure of 10 million people who will not be able to find work. Clearly, it is a problem with which all Governments have to grapple.

I want to refer to what the Tánaiste, Deputy O'Leary, said recently, not to make any party political points, because I think this scandal is bigger than governments, but to highlight one of our problems. In The Irish Times recently the Tánaiste said that on the basis of present policies over the next five years it would be difficult to see unemployment falling below 125,000. He said also again on the basis of present policies, that we will have to find a novel way of dealing with unemployment at the level we have it at today, otherwise we are talking about a lot of young people being out of work on a semi-permanent basis. The Deputy leader is suggesting that, under present policies for which the Government are responsible, there is no answer to youth unemployment. I stress this is not a party political point but this man is Deputy Leader, he is also my Deputy Leader as a citizen and this is the sort of leadership which young people are being asked to accept as being a glowing light which they are to follow.

At least the Tánaiste admits — and I admire his frankness — that by the spring of next year this figure could be 145,000 unemployed on the basis of present policies. If the figure is now 129,000, according to official statistics, and the Tánaiste thinks it is going to be 145,000 by next spring, it means the Government are saying that unemployment is going to grow by 16,000 over Christmas. In all the euphoria about pouring money into the pockets of our young people to take them off the streets, I want to highlight a contradiction in the economic policies and approach of the Government. On the one hand they are raising £90 million to create employment and on the other hand pointing out that 16,000 extra people will be joining the dole queues over Christmas.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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