andMr. Reynolds asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he will give details of the targets of individual engineering districts for telephone installations in 1981; and the actual number of installations for each district.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Telephone Service.
8.
Mr. Killilea
As the reply is in the form of a tabular statement, I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to circulate it with the Official Report.
The following is the statement:
|
Engineering District |
Target |
Connections to end November 1981 |
|
Cork |
10,000 |
9,269 |
|
Drogheda |
6,500 |
5,620 |
|
Dublin |
33,500 |
18,817 |
|
Galway |
6,000 |
5,202 |
|
Limerick |
10,000 |
8,954 |
|
Portlaoise |
4,000 |
3,545 |
|
Sligo |
3,500 |
3,166 |
|
Waterford |
6,500 |
5,337 |
Is the Minister satisfied, with the target set for Dublin city, for example? Is he satisfied with the installation figures? Would he be kind enough, as it is a tabular statement, to give me the figures for the target for Dublin and state what has been achieved to date?
If the Deputy will be kind enough to me in future to ask for that information I will let him have it.
Never before in the history of this House when such a request was made to get statistics about six districts, as in this question, has it been given to the House in the form of a tabular statement. Arising from the tabular statement reply, if the Minister refuses to give it to us let him say so, but I will not have him hiding behind the bluffing act of a tabular statement.
For the benefit of people reading the Official Report at a later date the tabular statements are available to Deputies immediately Question Time is over. There is nothing hidden about it. It is quite normal for this type of question to be answered——
Why did the Minister not answer it?
Not alone is it normal for me to do it but it was the practice for the previous administration. Deputy Killilea and Deputy Reynolds did it ad infinitum when they were in office.
I refer the Minister back to a similar question asked after three-quarters of last year when I did not circulate a tabular statement. I came in and gave the details asked at that time. Why is the Minister of State hiding behind that information? Is he trying to avoid supplementaries in this area? He has the information in front of him in relation to Dublin district and we are asking about only one. Would he please read it out?
I am not in control of supplementaries. The Ceann Comhairle is in charge of supplementaries.
Would the Ceann Comhairle allow me to ask the Minister of State to read out the targets in relation to Dublin district only and we will not delay him any further?
I propose to circulate it with the Official Report.
Ceist 9.
(Interruptions.)
The Ceann Comhairle is not responsible for replies.
This issue yesterday brought Deputy Leyden to this House. Obviously it is a ploy that Deputy Harte is going to use in future. There are only six districts and we are asking him for one, Dublin. He has it in front of him and he refuses to give the information in this House in answer to a supplementary question which is our right to get. A Cheann Comhairle, you should insist that he does not hide behind the protection of a tabular statement.
The Chair has no control over that. Ceist 9.
In order that the House can know I will give the facts. They are away behind by about 16,000 installations.
Deputy Killilea, we have to go to Question No. 9.
In view of the inadequate reply, I give notice that I wish to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
Are you asking my permission?
I am asking your permission, yes.
9.
Mr. Killilea
andMr. Reynolds asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs why tenders for ducting in the Sligo and other districts have been cancelled and new tenders sought as per recent advertisements.
I am not clear what tenders the Deputies have in mind when they refer to tenders having been cancelled. If they supply additional details I will have further inquiries made.
Tenders were received last month for ducting work in the Sligo area and these are being considered at present.
Is the Minister of State aware that towards the end of June or the beginning of July last tenders were sought, opened and sanctioned and contracts given to certain contractors in the Sligo district? That self-same work has now been readvertised and selected contractors have been asked to supply tenders again for exactly the same work as was advertised last July. Would he care to comment on that, or if he is not aware of this, would he please say so?
I wonder if the Deputy is on the wrong side of the House with so much information at his disposal.
I am wondering what facts the Deputy is trying to establish because I do not know what question he is asking.
I will name one. Does the Minister know anything about the districts around Boyle?
The Deputy is allowed only to ask questions.
For the information of the Deputy the last contract for ducting in Sligo was placed in May 1980. It was extended in March and June 1981 and is now concluding. Tenders for new contracts were invited in October 1981 but the closing date for them was November 1981. These tenders are now being evaluated. I wish the Deputy would make up his mind as to what he is talking about. Those are the facts.
Is the Minister of State aware that in June of this year the tenders for contracts for ducting in the Boyle area were sought by public advertisement, were submitted and opened and contracts granted? Is he aware that in October of this year the self-same work, identical in every way, was readvertised——
In the Roscommon Herald?
—— in the Roscommon Herald— selectively regarding those asked to supply which was peculiar, opened but not yet granted? Is the person who received the contract in June of this year now going to be told by the Department that he is not eligible, despite the fact that the Department in June sanctioned the acceptance of the self-same tenders? I specify one — Boyle.
Before the Deputy listens to fireside stories he should listen to the facts, which are that the contracts were advertised in local papers and the contractor who replied had difficulty in getting a bond which is a very important factor in a contract for undertaking work. That was then advertised in the national papers. That is the only reason. I will tell the Deputies, in case they are disappointed about these tenders being cancelled, that no tenders have been cancelled and no work has been stopped.
They were readvertised.
They were readvertised for the reason I have just given but I cannot get that through to the Deputy.
Has the Minister of State the following information? I have it, so he should have it. Is it a fact that the person in question was never in his life asked to submit a bond? Is he aware that out of courtesy and in fear that he might not get the contract he supplied a bond from the Insurance Corporation of Ireland and that it was sent back to him by the Department? Does the Minister of State not think now that he should understand and comprehend that that is not the manner in which the operations of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs have proceeded? If he says it was wrong in the past it is a reflection on the Department. Secondly, does he think that the people are not aware that it is part of a telecommunications delay tactic in implementing the five-year programme when a Government of six months say there has been a delay of six months in installation and building while they have done nothing? Would he care to comment on that?
Deputy, you have a great source of information, but you are here to ask questions, not to impart information.
(Interruptions.)
Yesterday Deputy Reynolds on Question No. 3 made certain allegations similar to those being made now.
I stand by every word I said yesterday.
There is no basis for the allegations that there were cutbacks of 40 per cent or any other cuts as far as the ordering of stores, cables or exchange equipment is concerned. The Deputy might substantiate by specific examples the allegations he is making and then I will have the matter fully investigated.
I have a question for the Minister.
I would like to make this point. If a former Minister stands up in the House and makes allegations, the general public come to the conclusion that there is a mole inside giving the former Minister information. I want to clear this point up.
(Interruptions.)
There is no substance in the Deputy's allegations. If he had such substance, the variety of stores there is very difficult to check. As far as is possible, we have checked on the matter.
Question No. 9, Minister.
Mine is a very important supplementary question.
Question No. 9, Minister.
I am not sure if this is a Laurel and Hardy show which is being staged by the Opposition, or a male voice banshee choir.
Is the Minister going to answer my question?
The abuse that the Deputies gave yesterday is not to be taken as the norm.
I must assume that the Minister and the Government have a special contractor to whom they wish to give the contract.
The election is over and the Deputy is no longer a Minister of State.
Order, please. May we have a little order in the House? Would the Minister please——
The Minister is being disorderly.
May we have a final supplementary, please?
The Minister of State has come in here trying to refer to something mentioned in this House yesterday. He said that I had no evidence to offer.
Could the Deputy confine himself to the question?
He got five minutes and these are serious allegations in relation to a statement which I made and which I stand over totally. First, I refer the Minister of State to a Gay Byrne programme of not so very long ago which the general public heard.
I am sorry, Deputy. On Question No. 9, I understood that the Deputy had a supplementary question.
Will the Minister of State accept that a member of his staff from the stores department phoned up on a Gay Byrne live programme not very long ago and the tape can be got in RTE, if the Minister wishes. This member of the staff said that he could not install telephones in a specific area in the Dublin district because they did not have the wire in the stores and did not have the money from the Department to buy it. This statement was made on live radio by a member of the Minister's own staff. Is he not now prepared to accept that his own stores people know what is going on and that he obviously does not?
I am giving the directions and the Deputy is no longer Minister for Posts and Telegraphs.
Does he not accept what his own people are saying over live radio?
Order, please. Could we have a little order? I am calling Question No. 10.
There is another part of this story.
Question No. 10, please Minister.
We know the score.
The Minister is caught out in his bluffs.
He is caught out badly.
Christmas carols by Deputies Killilea and Reynolds.
I am calling Question No. 10.
10.
asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if his Department have received an application to provide more telephone lines in the Department of Social Welfare.
The answer is `yes'.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Gay Mitchell for a a supplementary question.
Would the Minister agree that the delay in providing telephones for the Department of Social Welfare is the same delay which occurs in the rest of the Dublin area, particularly in Dublin South Central which I represent? Telephones have not been provided because the necessary equipment has been diverted to Galway by Deputy Killilea and to Longford by Deputy Reynolds. They did not give two damns, while in Government, about these people.
Question No.11.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 11, please.
We are still not in the Department. Ask the people about that. The Minister's own backbenchers are asking him.
Question No 11, please, Minister. I am not allowing any further supplementaries. The Deputies have got their answer.
(Interruptions.)
11.
asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the number of applicants on the waiting list for telephone service in the Falcarragh area, County Donegal, which is due to become automatic later this year.
85.
During Deputy Killilea's term as Minister of State, he did not provide any equipment in Galway.
That does not arise on this question.
Tuam is the place.
Question No. 12, please, Minister.
It was represented that something was done in our country, when there was not.
12.
asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs when a post office box will be located at Solyhill shopping centre, Cork city.
As soon as the necessary planning permission, which has been applied for, is received.
I had to get the Minister of State's phone fixed a few times.
The Deputy was not able to get his own phone fixed.
Could we have a little order, please?
13.
(Clare) asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs when work will commence on the new area engineering offices at Ennis, County Clare.
It is not possible at present to say when exactly work on this project will begin but it will be undertaken as early as practicable. The area engineering headquarters requirements at a number of centres, including Ennis, are being reviewed at present in the light of the latest projections of staff, stores, transport etc. to be catered for and of the costs involved in providing necessary accommodation.
(Clare): Would the Minister confirm that this tender was ready to go out on 11 July last?
He does not know.
11 July is not mentioned. I cannot confirm that. I can tell the Deputy that there are 36 area headquarters placed for contract. Works are progressing in most of them and some are finished and 26 remain to be dealt with. The question deals with Ennis as one of the 26 remaining to be dealt with. The first estimated cost of all these headquarters is now out of date. Among other things, consideration is being given to a new costing of these works and whether, with the experience gained in establishing other area headquarters, more can be provided at a lesser cost. Some have accommodation which the staff admit is elaborate. In other words, for the amount of money involved we may be able to have a much better programme finished much faster.
Typical Coalition Government.
Engineers are looking at possible modifications and it will be their decision, not mine.
(Clare): Is it not a fact that it was cleared to go to tender on 11 July last?
That is true.
I beg the Deputy's pardon?
(Clare): Is it not a fact that the contract for these offices was cleared to go to tender on 11 July?
No. The only information I have about Ennis is that——
It has been delayed.
The original proposal was to provide an E type area headquarters in Ennis, which is capable of accommodating 240 staff and associated support facilities. The current estimated cost of this headquarters is £1,600,000 including the cost of the site. In Ennis at the moment 80 people are working. Others will be brought in again and others brought in from other areas to use the headquarters, but the original plan was to accommodate 240. I am told by the engineers that they are looking at Ennis and the other 25 area districts to see, from the information they have obtained from the use of the area headquarters now built and in operation, and about to be taken possession of, what facilities would be necessary, what we can afford to pay and how fast we can get the job done.
The Minister of State's new words of "review" in one case and "delay and postponement" is another are really a cover-up for not going ahead with the programme as outlined?
Yes.
Is he now trying to convince this House or anybody in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, that this programme—which was totally reviewed many times in every aspect and on a monthly basis from time to time—is going to be scrapped altogether and that they are going to start off again? That is what he is talking about, if I have listened to him correctly. The case was fully assessed and it was ready to go to tender in July. It has not gone to tender, like many others.
Hear, hear.
Will he now openly admit to the House that he is now postponing the programme?
Precisely.
I want to assure Deputy Reynolds that there is no postponement of Ennis.
What is this?
I hope that he is listening to me correctly.
I am.
If he is listening to me correctly, the people concerned in this programme are much more informed on what the needs of the programme are than Deputy Reynolds or I.
The Deputy should speak for himself.
Speak for yourself, boy.
Unfortunately for Deputy Reynolds, I have to take their advice because I believe it to be dependable. It is very professional advice that I am taking and I will continue to take it.
(Interruptions.)
I want to ask another supplementary.
I am sorry. I have gone on to Question No. 14.