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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 Mar 1982

Vol. 333 No. 4

Sea Fisheries (Amendment Bill, 1981: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Mar a dúirt mé inné ins an díospóireacht seo, ní haon rún é go bhfuil tionscal na hiascaireachta san am i láthair i ngéarchéim agus má dhéanaimíd scrudú ar an tionscal seo sílim gur féidir linn a fháil amach cén áit a bhfuil na deacrachtaí. Sé mo bharúil féin go bhfuil na deacrachtaí a bhaineann le tionscal na hiascaireachta san am i láthair ag teacht ón barr agus ón bhun. Mar shampla, na costais a bhaineann le hiascaireacht, tá siad ag dul in airde, luach artola, luach arachais, trealamh agus mar sin de. Ar an dtaobh eile den scéal, an luach atá na hiascairí ag fáil ar a gcuid éisc, de réir cosúlachta níl ardú ar bith air. Má tá aon rud ag tarlú tá sé ag dul in ísle gach bliain.

Cad is féidir linn a dhéanamh faoi sin? Sílim féin go dtig leis an Aire agus leis an Rialtas rud éigin a dhéanamh chun cuidiú leis na hiascairí a bhfuil a gcuid costas ag dul in airde gach bliain. Sílim go bhfuil sé in am ag an Rialtas cuimhniú ar fhor-dheontas nó subsidy a thabhairt dos na hiascairí a gcosnaíonn a gcuid ola an oiread sin dóibh. Ni shílim go bhfuil aon tír eile sa chomhargadh faoi láthair a gcosnaíonn a n-ola nios mó dóibh ná mar a chosnaíonn sé do na hiascairí anseo in Éirinn. Is dóigh go ndéarfaidh an tAire agus an Rialtas agus b'fhéidir an Comhargadh nach ceadmhach é sin a dhéanamh, ach de réir mar a thuigim féin tá tíortha sa chomhargadh faoi láthair, an Fhrainc, an Ghearmáin agus an Iodáil agus tá siad sin ag tabhairt fordheontas i leith na hola. Ní fheicim cén fáth nach bhfuilimidne ábalta a leithéid a dhéanamh chom maith maidir le luach an éisc. Mar a dúirt mé is beag ardú ata ag teacht air. Sílim, má scrudaimid an cheist, gur féidir linn déanamh amach cén fáth nach bhfuil ardú ag teacht air. Silim go bhfuil an t-eileamh céanna ar iasc anois agus a bhí sna blianta a chuaigh thart. B'fhéidir go bhfuil an t-éileamh nios mó. Nuair a bhí mé féin níos óige — agus is dócha go bhfuil cuimhneamh ag cuid eile agaibh air seo — ni raibh cead againn feoil a ithe Dé hAoine; caithimis iasc a ithe. Is é mar a bhí an scéal san am nach n-íosfadh éinne iasc aon lá sa seachtain ach Dé hAoine. Anois tá an scéal sin athruithe agus is féidir leat iasc a itheadh gach lá sa tseachtain. Tá an t-éileamh ar an iasc agus níl an bua á chur leis, agus cen fáth? Sílim gurb é an fáth ná an méid éisc atá ag teacht isteach ó thíortha eile — ó Chanada, ón Norbhuadh agus ón Ioslainn — go dtí tíortha an Chomhargaidh.

Sílim go bhfuil fuascailt na ceiste le fáil sa Bhruiséal go gcaithfidh an tAire Iascaireachta agus Foraoiseachta, le tacaíocht an Rialtais, dul ansin agus cinnte a dhéanamh de go mbeidh cothrom na féinne le fáil ag iascairí na tíre seo ón gComhargadh. Is é an polasaí, de réir cosúlachta, atá ag na tíortha mór le rá, An Ghéarmáin agus an Fhrainc agus na tiortha eile ná iasc saor a ligint isteach os na tíortha seo ar choinníoll go dtig leo a gcuid earraí tionsclaíochta féin a dhíol arais leo. Is é an dream atá thíos leis agus an dream ata ag fulaingt ná iascairí na hÉireann anseo atá beagnach curtha faoi chois san am i láthair.

Rinneadh tagairt anseo inné do thionscal na maicréal. Le cúpla mí tá daoine ag triall ar chuanta san tír seo — Castletownbere agus áiteachta eile—120 lorraí sa lá agus iad ag easportáil lastaí maicréal go dti tíortha na hEorpa agus sílim, nuair a dheinimid sin gur ag easportáil jobanna a bhímid. Anseo in Eirinn, do gach uile iascaire atá ag iascaireacht ar an fharraige tá duine amháin ar an talamh ag obair i dtionscail phroiseála. Má chuirimd é sin i gcomparáid le rudaí mar atá san Eoraip do gach iascaire, cur i gcás san Ísiltír, atá ar an fharraige, tá seisear ag obair ar an Mhórthír. Caithimid smaoineamh ar fhorbairt a dhéanamh i dtionscail na proiséala sa tír seo agus postanna a chur ar fáil, agus nuair a chuimhním ar cén áit a bhfuil an t-iasc le fáil, sílim gur fiú don Rialtas agus don Aire cuimhneamh ar an tionscal proiseála agus postanna a chur ar fáil in iarthar na tíre.

Ba mhaith liom chomh maith le sin tagairt a dhéanamh, má táimid ag dul ag cur tionscal próiseála ar fáil, go gcaithimid deiseanna agus áiseanna cearta a chur ar an mórthír dóibh sin, mar shampla, san am i láthair in iarthar na tíre agus go speisialta san dáilcheantar ina bhfuil mé féin, iardheisceart Thír Chonaill. Mar a dúirt an Teachta Coughlan anseo tráthnóna inné sílim go bhfuil cuid des na bóithre is measa sa tír ann, agus nuair a bhímid ag taisteal ar fud an dáilcheantair seo agus feicimid lorraithe agus trucailí móra 40 throithe ar fad ag iarraidh dul thar na bóithre, sílim sula mbíonn tionscail chearta ins an áit go gcaitfear infheistiú ceart a dhéanamh sna bóithre; agus chomh maith le sin, i gcúrsaí téileachumarsáide cuir i gcás cúrsaí teileafóin. Inniu féin bhí mise ag iarraidh dul tríd go dtí an Bhunbeg as an áit seo agus theip orm agus ní sin an chéad uair. Ach nuair a chuimhníonn tú ar na daoine atá ag plé le hiasc, ag ceannach éisc agus ag diol éisc, agus go gcaithfear an mhargaíocht a dhéanamh go gasta mar go rachadh lobhadh ar an iasc, ta sé fior-thábhachtach go mbeadh córas ceart cumarsáide teileafóin, telex agus ar uile ag na ceannaitheoiri agus na daoine ata páirteach sa tionscal sa dóigh go dtig leo teanghmáil a dhéanamh le ceannaitheorí sa Bhreatain agus tíortha eile na hEorpa.

Bhí deis agam le déanaí cuairt a thabhairt ar an chalaphort iascaireachta is mó sa tír, is é sin na Cealla Beaga. Tá áthas orm a rá go bhfuil forbairt mhór déanta ar an cheantar sin agus ar an mbaile sin le roinnt blianta anuas. Ceann de na rudaí is mó a chuir mé suim iontu nuair a bhí mé ansin ná an chuairt a thug mé ar an long-chlós sna Cealla Beaga, long-chlós a bhfuil oibrithe ag obair ann leis na blianta fada agus tradisiún breá long-thógála acu ins an am a chuaigh thart. Bhí siad ábalta báid iascaireachta a thógáil a bhí déanta de adhmad, ach tá áthas orm a rá anois go bhfuil deiseanna sa long-chlós sin agus go dtig leo na báid is nua-aimseartha a thógáil, báid déanta as crua atá os chionn 40 troigh.

Tá eagla orm, mar sin féin, go bhfuil deacrachtaí acu i láthair na huaire agus ceann des na deacrachtaí atá acu ná an iomaíocht ghéar atá siad ag fáil ó thíortha na hEorpa. Ní hé nach bhfuil na hoibrithe sna Cealla Beaga chomh maith lena macasamhail san Eoraip, ach tá buntáistí ag longchlósanna ins an Eoraip nach bhfuil ag na daoine atá i mbun an ghnó seo sna Cealla Beaga. Ceann des na rudaí is mó a chuireann isteach orthu ná go bhfuil fordheontas le fáil i dtíortha na hEorpa ag na dreamanna a bhíonn ag tógáil longa agus bád agus nach bhfuil siad le fáil sna Cealla Beaga. Bhí toscaireacht agam — níl sé chomh fada sin uilig — agus d'iarr siad orm iarraidh ar an Aire an bhféadfadh sé macasamhail den deontas sin a thabhairt do na daoine atá i mbun an ghnó seo sna Cealla Beaga.

Le cúpla seachtain tá ráflaí ag dul thart trí na Cealla Beaga i dtaobh crann tógála speisialta a bhí beartaithe a chur ar fáil, go bhfuil an crann tógála sin curtha ar athló. De réir cosúlachta tá sé déanta as iarann agus as crua. Cuireadh in iúl dom — níl a fhios agam an fíor é nó nach fíor — go bhfuil an t-ordú curtha ar ceal — an t-ordú fá choinne an t-iarann a cheann-ach don chrann tógála seo. Más fíor an ráfla sin, cuirfidh sé isteach go mór orain-ne in iar-dheisceart Thír Chonnaill. Sílim go gcuirfidh sé cosc ar an fhorbairt atá beartaithe do na Cealla Beaga agus b'fhéidir nuair a bhéas an tAire ag tabhairt freagra ar an díospóireacht seo go bhféadfaidh sé an scéal a shoiléiriú agus nach fíor na ráflaí atá ag dul thart go bhfuil polasaí i leith na gCealla Beaga ag athrú agus nach bhfuil an bhéim chéanna ar fhorbairt ansin, mar má chuirtear isteach ar fhorbairt na gCealla Beaga go ndéanfaidh sé dochar do thionscal na hiascaireachta ní amháin i dTír Chonaill ach ar fud na tíre. Aon rud a dhéanann dochar do thionscal na hiascaireachta déanfaidh sé dochar do eacnamaíocht na tíre agus go speisialta do eacnamaíocht Thír Chonaill.

An dara port ar mhaith liom tagairt ghearr a dhéanamh dó ná Ailt an Chorráin, Burtonport. Mar a dúirt mé tráthnóna inné, bhí sé de phríbhléid agam freastal ar chruinniú a bhí eagraithe ag Comharchumann Iascairí Ailt an Chorráin cúpla seachtain ó shin agus chonaic mé féin agus na Teachtaí Dála eile a bhí i láthair ansin na deacrachtaí atá sa chalafort sin. Mar shampla, tugadh geallúint dóibh bliain go leith ó shin go ndéanfaí forbairt ar Ailt an Chorráin. Dúirt an Taoiseach atá againn i láthair na huaire, an t-uasal Ó hEochaidh, nuair a bhí an fo-thoghchán i dTír Chonaill — is dócha go bhfuil cuimhne ag cuid agaibh air; tá cuimhne mhaith agam féin air — go raibh suim aige agus thug sé geallúint go gcuirfí céad troithe le cé Ailt an Chorráin agus chomh maith le sin go ndéanfaí an port a ghlanadh. Tá súil agam go mbeidh an fhorbairt sin ag tarlúint gan mhoill agus b'fhéidir arís go bhféadfadh an tAire a insint dúinn go díreach cén uair a bhfuil sé ar intinn aige an fhorbairt sin á dhéanamh. In mo pharóiste féin tá calafort eile, calafort a dhéanann freastal ar báid a bhíonn ag plé le hiascaireacht na mbradán níos mó ná aon iascaireacht eile. Le cúpla bliain táthar ag déanamh forbartha ar an Bhunbeg. Nuair a bhí Tomás Ó Domhnaill ina Aire Ghaeltachta i gcomhar leis an Aire Iascaireachta ag an am, tugadh deontas don Bhunbeg agus tá céim a dó den obair sin críochnaithe anois. Ach níl an job déanta ar fad mar tá céim a trí le déanamh agus sílim, an lá atá ann inniu, go bhfuil na hoibrithe atá ansin ag Bord na nOibreacha Poiblí ag tarraingt amach as an Bhunbeg inniu agus ag dul go dtí áit éigin eile. Tá súil agam go gairid go mbeidh siad arais ansin agus go gcuirfidh siad críoch cheart leis an obair a tosaíodh ansin cúpla bliain ó shin. Tá roinnt chalafort eile sa chontae agus ba mhaith liom iad a fheiceáil ag forbairt. Tá Baile an Easaigh, Cloughaneely, Magheroarty a dhéanann freastal ar iascaireacht bhradáin agus a dhéanann freastal chomh maith ar Oileán Tory agus ar Inis Bofinne.

Ó tharla mé ag caint ar Inis Bofinne, is é an t-aon teacht isteach taobh amuigh de liúntais leasa shóisialaigh atá ag na daoine ar an oileán sin na tionscail na hiascaireachta. Sílim gur ceann de na hoileáin é atá dearmadaithe ar fad ar chósta Thír Chonaill.

Mar shampla, níl fiú amháin solas aibhléise ar Inis Bofinne. Sílim gur tugadh geallúint bliain nó cúpla bliain ó shin go gcuirfí ineallra ar fáil a chuirfeadh cumhacht aibhléise agus solais ar fáil don oileán seo agus go dtí seo níor tharla aon rud. Tá pobal beo daoine ann. Tá siad i mbun iascaireachta agus ba mhór an trua é mura ndéanfaí fóirthint orthu ar an dóigh sin. Ní shílim go bhfuil morán oileán eile ar chósta na tíre anois a bhfuil daoine ina gcónaí orthu nach bhfuil cumhacht aibhléise acu.

Sula dtagaim go dtí deireadh mo scéil, ba mhaith liom iarratas spesialta a chur ag an Aire anseo inniu. Iarratas a bhaineann leis na daoine atá ag brath ar thionscal na mbradán. Mar atá a fhios agaibh féin, anuraidh is beag airgead a rinneadh ar na bradáin. Bhí an séasúr bradáin is measa againn is dóigh a bhí againne riamh. De thoradh sin tá cáin le híoc ag na hiascairí bradáin "the salmon levy" agus ceann de na rudaí ba mhaith liomsa a chur i láthair an Aire inniu go gcuir-feadh sé deireadh leis an cháin sin fá choinne séasúr na bliana seo. Ag an am seo nuair atá na hiascairí go dona, nuair atá siad ag fáil chomh beag sin airgead ar a gcuid tairgí, sílim gur droch rud é an cháin seo a chur ar na hiascairí agus ba mhaith liom a agairt ar an Aire agus ar an Rialtas go gcuirfí deireadh leis an cháin seo i mbliana.

Sula dtagaim go dtí deireadh, duine ar bith againn as Tír Chonaill nó as chósta thiar na hÉireann a bhfuil suim againn san iascaireacht, feicimid ó am go ham na taismí a tharlíonn ar an fharraige. Tá eolas ar leith againn in iar-dheisceart Thír Chonaill ar na tubaistí agus ar na taismí uafásacha seo. Tarlíonn siad anois is arís agus is beag a thig linn a dhéanamh mar gheall orthu. Ba mhaith liom go bhféadfaí níos mó a dhéanamh, go bhféadfaí go mbeadh comhar naisiúnta tarrthála nó rud éigin dá mhacasamhail curtha ar fáil sa dóigh nuair a bheadh long nó bád nó foireann iascaireacht i gcontúirt go bhféadfaí tarrtháil a thabhairt orthu trí na daoine atá in a bhun i láthair na huaire, an Air Corps, an Garda agus na báid fóirthinte, agus atá siad ag déanamh sár-obair. Tá siad ag déanamh a ndíchill ach silim gur chóir go mbeadh eagraíocht náisiúnta de chineál éigin agus chomh luath agus a théann an scéal amach go bhfuil long i gcontúirt nó i dtrioblóid ar an fharraige, go bhféadfaí tarrtháil a thabhairt orthu taobh istigh de uair a chloig. Go minic tarlíonn cuid de na taismí seo le linn dorchadas na hoiche. Cuid de na rudaí a thug mé féin agus daoine eile faoi ndeara nach mbíonn deis ag an Air Corps lena gcuid helicopter dul amach san oíche. B'fhéidir gurbh fhiú cuimhneamh ar helicopter a fháil do na paróistí agus áiseanna ar bord orthu gur feidir leo dul amach lá nó oiche. Nuair a bhíonn long i dtrioblóid ar an fharraige is minic a dhéanann ceathrú uaire nó níos lú an difir idir beatha a shabháil agus beatha a chailleadh.

Mar fhocal scoir, ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil súil agam go n-éiroidh leis an Aire san am atá roimhe agus go mbeidh sé ábalta tarrtháil a thabhairt ar thionscal na hiascaireachta sa tír seo. Is fíor a rá nach raibh sé chomh holc riamh. Tá súil agam nuair a bhéas a ré thart go mbeidh rudaí i bhfad níos fearr ná mar atá faoi láthair.

I should like to congratulate Deputy McGinley on his maiden speech. Even though his Donegal Irish was a little difficult nevertheless it was not impossible to understand him. I should also like to congratulate Deputy Bellew who had to make his maiden speech under some duress because of an onslaught from the other side of the House. While I am in a complimentary mood I should like to extend good wishes to Deputy Daly on his appointment as Minister for Fisheries and Forestry. Some play was made yesterday about the fact that he was from the west of Ireland but I have no doubt that he will be a Minister for all fishermen. I also extend best wishes to Deputy McEllistrim on his appointment as a Minister of State. The fact that the Taoiseach has appointed a Minister of State to this Department is an indication of his concern for the fishing industry, a concern we all share.

I welcome this Bill, which increases the limit of advances to Bord Iascaigh Mhara to £40 million because of the extremely difficult period through which the fishing industry is going at present. There is a growing lack of confidence in the industry. Many born-and-bred fishermen, so to speak, are getting out of the industry, going to new jobs or joining the lengthening dole queues because there is not a living in fishing any longer. In my opinion, the industry is in peril and a new, sensible cohesive policy is very necessary. Improvements are needed in marketing and we need to create more fish processing plants. Imports from non-EEC countries represent a massive contributory cause for the present state of the industry and these must be curbed. The hardship facing prospective buyers of trawlers, with particular reference to EEC grants, is a deterrent to progress. The lack of facilities in harbours around the country has a drastic effect on the growth of the industry. I shall also comment on the life saving service.

It should be clearly seen now that small Irish fishing villages are becoming ghost towns with an exodus every other week. The fisher folk cannot cope with the uncertainties of the industry and are moving away to softer options. Those same villages were once hives of activity with contented populations and a thriving economy. The tourist potential is now probably of greater economic significance than that of fishing because of the quaintness and the folklore. This trend must be stopped and a situation created where young people will be encouraged to take up fishing as a livelihood. This suggestion must be attractive in the present economic climate with our disastrous unemployment figures. We have the raw material in abundance, the tradition, the manpower and the expertise, but we have not the political will.

We are constantly trying to attract new industries here, and rightly so. The import content is sometimes crippling. In the case of fisheries the raw material is on our door step. With proper encouragement many extra jobs can be created at far less cost than the imported jobs. Many more fishermen could be at work full-time and part-time. Fish processing is surely an area for expansion. Harbour development and maintenance could take up many jobs as could boat building and boat maintenance and a fishery advisory service. The industry needs new impetus, which can be provided in many ways such as better marketing arrangements so that we will not have a situation such as we had during the period of office of the previous Minister about last November when wholesale dumping of herring took place. Herring from the big boats were fetching up to £20 per unit while on the same day and from the same harbour the small boats were lucky to receive £5 per unit for the same type of fish. There must be consistency in the market.

Importation of fish, particularly herring from Canada and other countries outside the EEC, must be halted in order to protect the industry here. Surely it was not part of the EEC regulations that Irish fishermen should dump their fish while Canadian fish were being imported into the EEC. I ask the Minister to ensure that all boats being purchased by fishermen can acquire the grants on offer, both national and European. I am led to believe that boats of 40 feet or less are not getting EEC grants even though they fulfil all necessary qualifications. I speak particularly in regard to the south-east where I know of at least four cases recently that were turned down for the EEC grant they were promised. Often the difference between a person buying a boat and not buying it is the grant. I ask the Minister to take up this as a matter of great urgency at whatever level is necessary.

The Minister should also ensure that all moneys under the control of Bord Iascaigh Mhara should as far as possible stay within the country, that when Bord Iascaigh Mhara are commissioning the building of trawlers the contract for such trawlers be given to Irish yards. While it is well known that we have this expertise Irish yards such as Ross Company in New Ross, now in receivership with a loss of about 170 jobs, might not be in this position if BIM had spent their money at home. The Ross Company proved that it was capable of building such trawlers but the contract for such trawlers went to Dutch yards. Let the Minister and the Department of Fisheries set an example here for the Buy Irish Campaign.

The harbours from which our fishermen are expected to operate must be updated to accommodate modern fishing boats. Many of the smaller harbours have no major work done on them for a considerable period, possibly since their construction over 100 years ago. This creates a situation that limits fishing time. Local authorities provide barely sufficient money for maintenance. We have harbours such as Duncannon, County Wexford, which are not nearly able to cope with the demand at present. A call has been made for the upgrading of this port and I ask the Minister, as other speakers have done, to visit all those fishing ports and to respond to any calls to improve the industry.

I also call on the Minister to examine the life saving service for fishermen. Many lives have been lost at sea in the past two years. While it might have been difficult or impossible to save some of them, in my opinion it would certainly have been possible to save others. I wish to compliment the crews of the present life saving service on their efforts but their equipment is seriously out of date. Imagine the length of time it takes for a wagon carrying the equipment to be hauled by tractor whose maximum speed is 20 miles an hour to a location where a tragedy is imminent or has already occurred, when every minute is vital. The Naval Service, which is often called out on such occasions, should also have proper equipment necessary for such hazardous tasks. This applies particularly in the case of sub-aqua teams. The greatest disaster recently in this country was at Tacumshin Lake in County Wexford where five lives were lost, and two wives were left without husbands and two mothers without sons. The services provided on that occasion left much to be desired. Four days passed before the Naval Service arrived, allegedly because of the snow. Helicopters should have been put at the disposal of the services. Any such tragedy, or suspected tragedy, should be given the fullest and most urgent attention. Commercial divers on the spot said that they would not dive using the Mickey Mouse equipment which the Naval Service were using. I shall finish, as I began, by saying that the fishing industry is in trouble but that wise spending of the increased limit of allocation to Bord Iascaigh Mhara and a commonsense approach from our new Minister can put it back on the road to recovery.

I congratulate the Leas-Cheann Comhairle on his election to the position which he now occupies and also welcome the appointment of Deputy Daly in his capacity as Minister for Fisheries and Forestry and the Minister of State to that Department, Deputy McEllistrim. I wish them every success in their respective positions.

I do not wish to be cynical or offensive when I say, at the outset, that I wonder are the appointments really necessary or, for that matter, is the Department of Fisheries, as distinct from Forestry, really necessary. Those of us observing fishery matters in recent years have got the distinct impression that fisheries is a subject to be treated with contempt here, an industry which has been and is being treated with virtually total disregard, which has been subject to wilful neglect by successive Governments and to public indifference generally. There is a distinct lack of will to do anything to rescue the fishing industry, to put it on a proper businesslike footing. This stems, no doubt, originally from a lack of knowledge on the part of our politicians and from what should be informed sources in the general public. If one has not the knowledge it is very hard to have the will. We have seen a most disgraceful dereliction of our fishing industry. An Bord Iascaigh Mhara have to the best of their ability tried to rectify this disgraceful state of affairs but their resources are so limited that their task is essentially hopeless. It is about time we tackled the problem and made amends for the shortcomings which we have all witnessed over the years.

I do not wish to go into personalities, but the contempt meted out to the fishing industry in recent years can be gleaned from the fact that the previous three Ministers for Fisheries came from inland counties, which is an insult to our fishermen. It shows that the Governments who appointed these Ministers — the men themselves are fine men and I am not criticising their ability at all — did so because they regarded fisheries as a hot political issue, something which is better swept under the carpet than left visible and dealt with in a proper and positive manner. The last Minister for Fisheries came from County Cavan, the previous Minister from County Kildare and the Minister before that from County Roscommon. I have nothing against any of those counties, the individuals concerned or the natives of those counties, but it is obvious that a person from an inland county cannot hope to grasp the details and problems within the fishing industry.

I come from a maritime county and, not being modest, my knowledge of the fishing industry is as considerable as any Deputy's in this House; but I know that my knowledge is very incomplete. How can we expect to run a Department of Fisheries and expect to develop our fishing industry if people appointed to that position have virtually no knowledge of the industry? Having said that, we can look back and see that the best Ministers for Health are not doctors and the best Ministers for Education not teachers. However, if one is to be able to handle a subject and deal with a brief in a proper manner, one should have knowledge of the intricacies of that topic. As a result of this dereliction of our fishing industry, we have what Deputy Higgins yesterday described as chaos in our fishing industry. Chaos could be due to a number of reasons — quite often ignorance or uninformed opinion. This is not just that type of ignorance; it is wilful neglect.

When the Department of Fisheries were resurrected in the mid-seventies, we all thought that it was a major step forward and that there would be a vast development of our fishing industry. We assumed that we would get what was then known as the 50-mile limit. By that we meant a clear, unilateral 50-mile limit, as a result of which we would have a vast fishing industry, having sole rights to the fish within that limit. Events proved that not to be the case. Instead of a 50-mile limit we were reduced to a six-mile limit over most of our coastline and a 12-mile limit on the remainder. If we do not have a common fishery policy finalised by the end of 1982, we shall have no limits whatsoever. All the other member states of the EEC will then be entitled to fish right up to our shores. It is quite possible that that may be the case, because for the past seven or eight years we have been endeavouring to find a solution to the common fisheries policy and have failed absolutely. We have only seven or eight months left and it is conceivable, and indeed likely, that a solution will not be found by the end of 1982.

I do not know the exact structures within the Department of Fisheries, or if Minister Daly does, because he is relatively new to the post, but I suspect that it is the most undermanned, understaffed Department in the whole Government system. It is only a facade, a Department in name only. A realistic attempt to put it on a departmental footing has never been made. When I ask parliamentary questions on fisheries the answers I receive are so incomplete that one can only deduce that the information is not available because we do not have the facilities to obtain it. The French, Spanish, Dutch, British and probably the Russians and East Europeans know more about the fishing grounds within our 200-mile fishing limit than we do. We have not got the facilities to carry out research in depth. We had a research boat for that purpose, the Cú Feasa, but it has been laid up for the last two or three years. At present our fishery research facilities are nil. We depend on hiring a few trawlers here and there now and then by Bord Iascaigh Mhara to try to find out where the fish are, the species and in what quantities they are to be obtained.

The countries which I have mentioned have a very thorough knowledge of what fish exist within our 200-mile fishery zone and they are working that zone accordingly. Each year the EEC and the international council, ISIS, which controls quotas and fishing effort all round the world, come together to decide how much of each species can be caught without seriously damaging the future of that fishing stock. Those quotas are a joke. They are not being adhered to and, unless we have a Department of Fisheries with staff and facilities to oversee the fishing effort, then those quotas will continue to be a joke and the people who come after us will never forgive us for the manner in which we are allowing our fishing industry and fishing stocks to be destroyed. They will be right because this job has been bungled and there has not been an honest admission of that fact.

This is the place where it should be spelled out and I regret that so few Deputies involve themselves in fishery debates because the fishing industry should, logically, be our second greatest industry. It should be competing with the agricultural sector as being our main source of employment and wealth. That is not the case. Because of our indifference and neglect, the fishing industry is a matter of little or no concern, not just to the general public but also to many politicians. Having said that, we must all compliment the Deputies who have spoken in this debate so far. It is obvious that Donegal is the primary fishing county and Deputy Gallagher, Deputy Coughlan and Deputy McGinley by their contributions have shown their concern for that area. By naming people I do not wish to omit or to cast any aspersions on other Deputies who have spoken. I know Deputy Begley and Deputy Higgins are also very concerned but overall the fault lies largely in the fact that we have a Department which is not geared to meet the needs of what should be a thriving industry.

I am sorry to see that the three Members of Sinn Féin the Workers' Party have not seen fit to contribute to the debate. If we were talking about the export of cattle on the hoof they would be here asking that a certain number of cattle should be diverted to the meat factories here to secure employment which has been dropping off considerably because of lack of supplies of cattle. The fact that we are exporting fish in an unprocessed form on an alarming scale is just as serious as exporting live cattle. I do not see any difference in the theory that we should endeavour to retain a major portion of our fish catch for processing because that is essential. I made the comparison in a previous debate that in Ireland the ratio of fishermen and shore workers in the shore-based fishing industry is less than one to one. For every fisherman there is not the equivalent of one person working on shore, whereas on the Continent the ratio is in the order of one to six. For every man fishing at sea you have six working in shore-based industries, largely in processing but also in ancillary industries such as boat building. That statistic alone illustrates the alarming position of our fishing industry generally. We must back up our fishing effort by industrial development at the quayside. That type of development is widespread in Donegal, principally at Killybegs, where we have at least seven fish processing industries on the quayside or surrounding the harbour but that is an isolated instance and the same type of industrial development is not found at the other ports.

We must take a serious look at the position because we have vast quantities of fish, particularly mackerel, being exported unprocessed. Those mackerel are being caught mainly off the north-west and south-west coasts and are being exported principally to Russia and other eastern bloc countries. Only a tiny proportion is being processed here. That position must be rectified.

It may be all very well to catch large quantities of mackerel and herring but there should be supervision of those catches. At present I do not believe there is such supervision. I have already stated that the quota system is a not very pleasant joke. That is so because catches are not being supervised. Our Naval Service have been given the task of supervising the quota system. That is not their job. That service was not set up to adopt the role of fishery protectors: it is an entity in its own right. If we were to operate a fishery protection service properly we should do so through a section in the Department of Fisheries whose job it would be to do the monitoring. Obviously we do not have the staff there, and we do not have a single boat with which to do that work.

About three years ago the IFO suggested that, if any fishing boats from another country were to fish within our 200-mile limit, an observer from the Department should be put on board once the ship came into our waters and before fishing was begun. In that way the entire operation would be supervised. I agree that that is the only realistic way in which we will control catches, and if we do not control them there will be over-fishing and the quota amounts will be exceeded. Outside fishermen land their catches in out-of-the-way ports on the Continent without supervision. Therefore, it is a pity the IFO suggestion was not pursued.

Until there is proper supervision of catches we are in distinct danger of destroying completely our fish stocks. At the moment catches of mackerel off the south-west and north-west coasts are not being monitored and I hope the Minister will tell me what steps are being taken to rectify that situation. If catches are not monitored properly our mackerel stocks will be eliminated, just as our herring stocks were destroyed in the Celtic Sea in the late sixties and early seventies. We will finish up with only white fish and a poor industry because it will not pay our fishermen to go out in boats worth a million pounds each looking for white fish only.

The Bill emphasises the need to increase the size of fishing boats and their catching ability. That may seem lovely but it is not as happy a picture as it might appear. I have asked the Minister to restrict the catching potential of our fishing fleet, particularly the larger boats. We are one of the few countries to allow what is known as purse seining. That method is absolutely effective but also massively destructive. It entails the surrounding of shoals of fish and collecting those shoals as if you were collecting water from a pool in a bucket. If it is allowed to continue unrestricted there will not be any mackerel stocks left within a few years, but so far we have not seen fit to restrict that form of fishing which has been outlawed in most other countries because it is so destructive of stocks. I suggest that the Minister immediately alter the position before our entire mackerel stocks are exhausted in the same way as our herrings were decimated.

We must impose a strict limit on third country and EEC member catches off the south-west and north-west coasts. At present such fishermen catch far more mackerel than the Department admit, and if restriction is not imposed immediately there will not be anything left for Irish fishermen. That is the most crucial issue facing fishermen at the moment. If quotas were properly implemented there would be a reasonably good future for our fishermen in large boats, but I will never condone the use of the purse seine net. We have shown lack of knowledge, interest and concern in this matter with consequent danger to our mackerel stocks.

Last January I referred to fish dumping. Unfortunately, it is a fact. It is pathetic to see film on television of top quality herring, which is one of the most valuable species of fish, being dumped in places like Killybegs and Galway because there is no market, because we have not got adequate processing facilities to deal with the glut that might occur for a day or two or a week. It is disgraceful that this fish has to be dumped and that fishermen are going out knowing that what they catch is to be brought back into port merely to be dumped and sprayed with a dye so that it cannot be resold in any way. That type of dumping is sinful; it is disgraceful and we should endeavour to have a structure whereby that does not have to occur. It has been stated that it has to be dumped because there is no market for it. But recently the Polish Aid Organisation — and we know there is a great food shortage in Poland — were seeking supplies of such fish resulting from gluts and did not have much success in getting any. So I would ask the Minister to ask BIM to bear in mind at all times of oversupply countries where there is a grave food shortage and, if at all possible, see to it that the surplus fish is given to those countries.

I cannot think of any more worthy cause. An alternative would be to give it to charitable organisations. The point is made that these people do not have the transport but I understand that the Polish Aid Organisation had a cargo ship on hand to transport any fish that would be available here and I know that there are a lot of charitable organisations which would avail of this surplus fish and if they knew in time that it was available they could also make arrangements to have transport laid on. It is imperative that the Minister set up some system to let organisations know where fish is being caught in excess and will have to be dumped unless it can be given away. Such fish should be given away.

One may ask why should such valuable species of fish as herring have to be dumped here. The answer is very simple. We are not being tough enough at the EEC Council of Fishery Ministers to see that imports from third countries are restricted. It is common knowledge that the major fishery countries in the northern hemisphere all now have a 200-mile fishing limit, namely, Canada, Greenland, Iceland, The Faroe Islands and Norway. The result is that they have far more fish than they need for their own domestic consumption and they are only too prepared to sell off vast quantities of this fish to the affluent countries of the western world, the EEC in particular. That is what they have been doing. It has been to the detriment of our fishing industry and it has cost our fishermen dearly. It is a common occurrence nowadays that if fishermen here are able to sell their fish they get less than they got five years ago. That is because of an over-supply situation due to huge imports from third countries. Fuel oil and every other item used in the fishing industry have doubled or trebled in price. We need only look at the Dublin fish market report in the paper to see that fish in most cases is fetching the same or less than it did five years ago.

They should be available at reasonable distances, and that is not the case at present. I would like the Minister to do something which has not been done for many years in this country: to make an impact at Cabinet level and at EEC level to see that our fishing industry is put on the level to which it is entitled. We will all be proud of his performance if he can do that. We welcome this Bill and hope that it is the beginning of better things to come.

We need people out in Brussels. We need a Minister for Fisheries who will go out and see to it that the Germans, the French or the Dutch will not allow this fish into the EEC in excess. It is a disgrace that the Canadians can export thousands of tonnes of herring to the EEC while our own fishermen are forced to dump top quality herring. As Deputy Hugh Byrne of Wexford stated earlier today, if they do send the fish into the market the price they get for a box of herring could be as low as £5. That was the price frequently quoted to fishermen in the south-east over the past winter. Six or seven years ago that same box of herring would have fetched £15 or £20.

Therefore can one wonder why our fishermen feel that they are getting a raw deal? They have every justification for feeling this way. These third country imports must be stopped or seriously restricted. They are destroying the Irish fishing industry. As a public representative, I know it. I see more and more fishermen, men who have fished for 15, 20 or 30 years leaving the fishing industry and looking for shore jobs or going on the dole, because it is not worthwhile to go out and fish all night and perhaps get one or two boxes or none at all. With that type of price structure they are better off financially if they do not fish and stay on the dole. The price structure has been shattered by the import of fish from third countries. It behoves the Minister to go to Brussels to see that this attitude of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" stops.

We know that the Germans and the other developed countries are allowing these imports on the basis that their consumer goods are being accepted by Canadians or Norwegians or whatever. It is a case of swapping commodities, but we are the people who are caught in the middle of that arrangement and it cannot be allowed to continue. We have failed in the past to restrict the imports from third countries. I was told here six months ago that a 15 per cent levy was now to be imposed on imports of fish from third countries. That is no good. If the Canadians or Norwegians or Icelanders are catching enormous quantities of fish it pays them to sell at extremely low cost. It is a price war and that is what they are doing. A levy of 15 per cent means nothing. The amount of duties should not enter the matter. It must be a restriction, a total restriction or a very major restriction to ensure that the market at home is buoyant and to ensure that our fishermen get a fair price. They have not been getting it.

Going a little further I see that the inhabitants of Greenland voted last month to opt out of the EEC and that now they are going to seek associate membership of the EEC. One of the reasons they are seeking associate membership is to allow them to continue to sell their fish on European markets. Greenland is a large country with a small population. It is almost totally dependent on fishing. The catches of fish they obtain are enormous. If they are allowed special concessions in regard to importing fish into the EEC it will gravely damage our fishing industry. I ask the Minister to bear this in mind when any agreement is being drawn up. If nations such as Greenland have associate membership of the EEC, this should not be an open door to our fish market.

I referred to the salmon catches by the people of Greenland. I might also refer to the salmon catches by fishermen from the Faroe Islands. I was under the impression that the Faroe Islands were part of the State of Denmark but apparently it is a separate entity and they are not members of the EEC. The Faroe Islands have a tiny community of about 35,000 people and the whole economy is based on the fishing industry. Having a 200-mile limit around a small group of islands means that the quantity of fish in their possession is enormous.

One disturbing factor has come to public notice in recent times which can be attributed to the very difficult situation confronting Irish salmon fishermen at present. Apparently the Faroese have discovered the North Atlantic run of salmon. They net the salmon out at sea at great depths. They have been causing havoc with the salmon fishing industry here. The 1981 salmon fishing season here was the worst on record for over 20 years. However, there was not much of a fishing effort in that regard other than in rivers and estuaries. Nowadays the major part of the salmon industry is at sea. Figures quoted in public statements in the press were that in 1981 Faroe fishermen caught 1,600 tons of salmon. That might not seem a great amount and, indeed, if it were mackerel or herring, it would not be a great amount but a commodity like salmon is a fairly rare species and 1,600 tons of salmon is a very sizeable quantity. This was the figure given by the Faroese themselves. However, there is no certainty that this is the amount they caught because invariably fishermen understate their catch. It could be that it was a multiple of 1,600 tons. In any event the salmon fishing industry here took a beating last year.

I know of many fishermen who had to give up fishing in June to July because it did not pay them to fish. I know of fishermen whose catch in 1981 did not cover the cost of their outlay on nets and fuel. The EEC have recognised that the problem is mainly caused by the deep sea fishing for salmon by the Faroese and the people of Greenland. What will the Minister do about this? If the Faroese cannot be restricted in their excessive catches of salmon we should put an embargo on the import of fish from the Faroe Islands and do the same with Greenland and Canada. Even if salmon fishermen get a decent catch the price is deflated because of oversupply and imports from third countries. Importers can retain the salmon in cold storage. They get a uniform price and do not have ups and downs. That may be good for the consumer but not for the fishermen. The Minister should say we will not allow any importation of fish unless they control their execessive fishing. He has a duty to do that.

I am sorry if I have spoken at too great a length but I hope the points I made have been assimilated by the Minister and that he will take some cognisance of them. At the Cabinet table, when people are putting forward views about how we can create new jobs, whether in the building, electronic or agriculture industries, the Minister should remember that there is no area where there are greater opportunities for the creation of jobs than in the fishing industry. Of course that is on the basis that the EEC acts in a responsible manner, restricts these imports and gives Irish fishermen a chance to get a fair price and living. There is no better sector for the creation of new jobs than the fishing industry.

The way to do that is to improve the quality of harbours and provide more shore-based industries. We must increase the ratio of people working on the shore from less than one for each fisherman at sea to five or six. There is a classic example of a small harbour in my constituency, Helvick in the Ring Gaeltacht. At present there are 20 or 30 boats fishing from that harbour, but that number could be increased to 50 or 60 if proper facilities were available. It would not take a lot of money to improve. It would be a better proposition for investment to do that than to grant-aid some firm which will fold up after 12 months. We would have more jobs if we had better quality harbours.

It does not make sense, if fishermen are to make a living, that they should have to travel 100 miles to get to an all-weather fishery harbour.

I will be brief because some previous speakers have gone on for longer than anticipated. My main reason for adding to the contributions already made is that, while I am a Dublin County Dáil Deputy, I come from a coastal constituency, that of Dún Laoghaire, which has, particularly in the centre and about the area of the harbour, a deep-seated tradition of seafaring. Many families in the area have this tradition of going down to the sea in ships. By reason of it being a coastal constituency one has an obligation to ensure that speculators or developers keep their hands off Dublin Bay and we, in common with other constituencies fronting on Dublin Bay, have an interest in ensuring that Dublin Bay does not fall into the hands of people who would not have its best interests at heart. These are some of our obligations as public representatives in these coastal constituencies.

From an ecological and environmental point of view we have, fortunately, some important bird sanctuaries. The people in the Dublin city and county area may not be aware that we have a large number of such sanctuaries, probably one of the most important being no further away than a mile-and-a-half from the back entrance of this House. I refer to Booterstown marshes which have been protected by the local people who act as custodians of the marshes. In addition to Booterstown, Dalkey Island also acts as a bird sanctuary which is easily accessible to the human species, and the fact that it is an island ensures its own protection against marauders.

I am speaking now on what could be described as a lost resource, because the sea is becoming a lost resource so far as its great possibilities for this nation are concerned. We are an island nation surrounded by the seas and this opportunity presents itself for those of us who have an interest in this matter and who come from coastal constituencies to participate in this important debate. As Deputy Deasy has said, aquaculture and sea fisheries are probably second in importance only to agriculture. They have an important role to play in the development of the nation and of its people. Their potential has been recognised by some people but I do not think it has been realised.

In making a plea to the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry in relation to a research station which I believe to be under threat I speak as a Dáil Deputy for the country as a whole. If we as public representatives have something to say on behalf of our own constituencies, very well, but we are national representatives and as such I speak now in regard to the shellfish research fishery in Carna, in the Galway Gaeltacht. I had the experience recently of visiting this wonderful centre, which is staffed by dedicated idealists, people of the highest quality and qualifications who are engaged in the research of shellfish. Not so long ago I was given to understand that this research centre might be closed down. I appeal to the Minister to ensure that, as part of the on-going development of the fisheries and all that that means, that shellfish research laboratory be retained. He will have the gratitude of future generations. This shellfish research laboratory in Carna in the county of Galway is under the aegis of the Department of Marine Biology, UCG, and part of the National Board of Science and Technology who, I understand, have funded it and have an interest in it. I urge the Minister as a matter of national importance not only to maintain the laboratory but to develop it and also to open other types of laboratories in other parts of this island. The work being done in that laboratory is immeasurable. It is not showing immediate results, but if we are talking about what Deputy Higgins mentioned in his exceptional speech, aquaculture and mariculture as being for the present and for the future, this is the sort of development which must be maintained as a matter of national urgency and importance. I know that the Minister, who has distinguished himself in another Department, will distinguish himself in that regard by acting as the custodian of this research laboratory. If the threat to this laboratory still exists I hope that it will cease and that the rumours of the possibility of closure will be stopped now. The Minister might deal with that point during his reply.

It is easy to stand up here and feed off other people's speeches, but it is not my intention to do so. However, Deputy Higgins made a point with which I do not agree. He suggested that the Naval Service should be retained as a naval service simpliciter and that its functions should not include fishery protection. I disagree totally with that. I think that the Naval Service has been underrated and, if I may use the expression, undermined to some degree by successive Governments. I do not accept for one moment that the Naval Service has been properly expanded or developed, although it is a tremendous outlet for young people who have a desire to go to sea not necessarily to fish but to become seafarers, sailors. It is indicative of the lack of interest in our seas that the Naval Service has not been developed. Successive Governments have not given proper recognition to the importance of this matter. Something must now be done about it.

BIM have been doing a good job and we are now providing more money for the development of our sea fisheries fleet. Whilst this is laudable, it is not enough. I see the Naval Service as a protector of the Irish seas, playing a part in the research which is so necessary. They should act as research vessels during the course of fishery protection.

The Naval Service should be developed by the induction of many hundreds of young people and more ships should be provided. It should be seen as an attractive option. In speaking recently on road safety I suggested that the problem should be brought to the attention of young people in schools. By the same means we could promote among our young people the concept of Ireland as a sea-going nation. Every coastal community should have a sea scout unit drawn from local schools, and teachers should be urged to bring to the attention of young people the attractions of the sea, whether in the Naval Service or in the sea fisheries industry. This is not being done at present and an indoctrination programme is needed.

I was attracted by the views expressed by Deputy Higgins regarding a change in the title of the Department of Fisheries and the Minister might consider including the word "sea".

Marine aquaculture or mariculture has been practised in the Far East for ever 2,000 years. In 1975 China and Japan together produced 3.5 million tonnes of aquaculture products and during the past 20 years significant developments have been taking place in Europe. The fish farming industry in Norway which started in the early sixties produced 7,000 tonnes of salmon and trout in 1980. Where does this country fit into the picture? Where is our development or research? Comparisons may be invidious and unfair and we as a nation are inclined to engage in self-flagellation. I would hope to make a positive contribution to this debate and I am not engaging in Celtic self-criticism which appears to be something of a national pastime. However, by comparison with other European countries Ireland has many natural advantages which favour the development of aquaculture. These include high water quality, suitable and under-developed coastline, absence of important diseases and the presence of natural wild stock. Those of us who were members of the former Inland Fisheries Trust and who engage in trout fishing know the tremendous coastline we have for this development. We could also benefit from the technology developed in other countries. Techniques which are being rapidly developed include the cage culture of salmon and hatchery production of bivalve shellfish.

The development of suitable sites for aquaculture is of prime importance and this country has many such places. The technology has already been developed and made available by other countries but putting it into practice is another matter and we must hasten slowly in that regard.

It is also important in relation to mariculture to select the most suitable species. At present mariculture is based primarily on extensive culture of mussels and oysters. Intensive culture methods have been established in Ireland only during the last two years, and the relatively small production of 232 tonnes of oysters, mussels, sea trout and salmon realised a value of approximately £300,000. Those figures are an absolute disgrace. It is projected that given suitable circumstances production from aquaculture could reach over 13,000 tonnes worth £15 million by 1990. We should be thinking in terms of 1985 and not 1990 and we need a crash programme of development.

The figures I have given are a shame for an island nation. I know the Minister takes an interest in this matter. I hope during his tenure in this Department he will distinguish himself in the development of this activity. I agree that a number of constraints on the development of the aquaculture industry have been identified in relation to the technical and development aspects. Despite the advantages of gleaning technological education from other countries a number of technical constraints, which are specific to Ireland need to be identified. I am sure the Minister knows about these particular problems.

As a corollary to all that I suggest to the Minister that consideration should be given as a matter of urgency to the establishment of a marine research institute. All the scientific data and all the scientific literature available in Ireland on this subject state that a marine research institute should be set up as soon as possible. If one wishes to study an extremely well produced and important study on the whole area of aquaculture one should read a production called "Science and Technology for Aquaculture Development" which was produced by the National Board for Science and Technology. This only came to my attention through the good offices of one of my colleagues yesterday. It is available in the Library for those people who may be interested in the subject. On page 107 of this publication it states:

Besides the species which have already been discussed, there are a number of fin fish, crustacean, shellfish and marine plant species which offer potential for aquaculture development.

They go on to mention the type of species which could make contributions to the Irish aquaculture industry in the future. They include scallops, clams, eels, flatfish, sea bass, sea urchins, freshwater cray fish, lobster, abalone, shrimp and certain marine algae. Some of these species can expect to benefit from the development of technologies that will allow commercial cultivation within ten years.

The opportunities have been stated in this publication produced by the National Board for Science and Technology. The people who are interested can refer to the immense opportunities set out in it for the future development of aquaculture. This matter can be seen as a developing industry. I hope the IDA will take a very close look at the opportunities available to the country for mariculture and aquaculture generally. The opportunities are immense and I do not believe that up to now they have been properly exploited.

I should like to refer to the threat to our salmon fishing. I know that fishermen have to fish to make a living within certain times of the year. Nevertheless, some of the fishing methods being adopted are dangerous to the survival of salmon. I do not intend getting into a controversy over this matter. I am speaking not so much on behalf of the industrial salmon fishermen as the sporting and tourist salmon fishermen. A large amount of money is spent by tourists visiting this country specifically to fish salmon, sea trout and brown trout as well as pike and other types of fish. The amount of money spent 15 and 20 years ago in catching even one salmon was of great benefit to the hotel industry in the areas surrounding the rivers where salmon were fished.

There are very few salmon left in our rivers. It is a great tragedy that more has not been done to protect salmon fishing, which is part of our heritage. I have only had the opportunity of catching a salmon on one occasion. I am a sea trout fly fisherman but catching that salmon was one of my greatest thrills. I can imagine the attraction salmon fishing has for fishermen who visit this country. That attraction is almost non-existent because of the greed of people in pursuit of salmon. We are probably asking too much of the Minister during this debate but it is part of his brief to ensure the survival of salmon fishing. The Minister will be helping our tourist industry if he ensures that salmon fishing remains an attaction.

I would like to refer to the work done by some people in relation to the survival of salmon fishing, particularly Mr. John A. Mulcahy from Waterford, who has done immeasurable good work in that regard. He has done much to ensure the survival of salmon fishing and I do not believe he has received sufficient credit for the work he has done in that regard as well as for the country generally. I should like to put on record my appreciation of what he has done and is continuing to do. It is not fashionable to give that sort of praise to individuals like Mr. Mulcahy but I cannot be described as a fashionable Dáil Deputy.

With regard to home consumption of fish, the fishing industry has not concentrated sufficiently on the home market. Why cannot housewives have fresh fish daily? What distance is the centre of Ireland from each coastline? Perhaps 75 miles. It is crazy to think we cannot have fresh fish on our tables regularly. Why this does not happen remains a mystery especially when one remembers that we are a very small country and we have the advantage of being surrounded by the seas. Does the fault lie in communication?

We are not a fish eating nation. Why not? It could be said that it is because we do not eat fish, but that is not the kind of answer I am looking for. I want to know why we have not become a fish eating nation when we have such a valuable resource around our coastline. We have a new Government and the Minister will have an opportunity to distinguish himself by doing something about the points I have raised in what was meant to be a brief contribution but has now run over its time.

Although this is not the relevant time to mention this, I want to pay tribute to the lifeboat service. These men have performed courageous acts of heroism by rescuing fellow seamen in the most dangerous circumstances. In my view they should be supported in every way possible, for example, financially by supporting their flag days. May I pay tribute to one of the men who made me aware of the sea and its advantages, Dr. John de Courcy Ireland. I know it is not normal to mention names in a debate of this nature but credit must be given where it is due. This man has done immeasurable good to make people aware of the advantages of the sea.

I wish the Minister well. I have respect for him and for his abilities. I also wish Deputy McEllistrim, his Minister of State, well in his new Department. I ask the Minister to approach his new role in an enthusiastic way and to realise the limitless opportunities to do good which exist.

I would like to congratulate the Chair on his appointment; Deputy Daly on his appointment as Minister and Deputy McEllistrim on his appointment as Minister of State.

I am concerned about the conservation of the salmon species, particularly as it affects my constituency. The ESB and the Parteen Hatchery have done considerable work to promote the conservation of salmon. However, in recent years there has been a rape of the Shannon Estuary by sea fishermen who put three mile nets across the mouth of the Shannon and denied the inland waters these salmon. I support the Minister in any measure he takes to prevent the continuation of this practice. If one goes to Loop Head and looks at the river one will see these massive lengths of net. They are not Claremen who are fishing there. It must be acknowledged that the fishery protection vessels, in conjunction with the Limerick Board of Conservators, have tried on several occasions to apprehend the people who abuse the law and who will eliminate salmon in the Shannon area.

Failure to protect the salmon has led to differences of opinion about the role of the salmon licences being issued at present. Inland and sea fishermen pay the same fee for these licences. We in the inland fisheries believe there is discrimination in this area. The financial reserves for conservation included in these licence fees are not adequate. The sea fishermen should pay a licence fee in proportion to the size of their catch. The previous Minister imposed a 10 per cent levy. I agree with the application of that tax on fish caught at sea but I do not see why that levy should apply to inland fishing. When the Minister is looking at the area of fees I hope he will be fair to all.

There has not been enough emphasis on conservation work and the work being done by the people at Parteen Hatchery. Their statistics show that the number of salmon running is decreasing rapidly year by year. When allocating funds the Minister might consider a special injection of money for these people because they will have to go to other lands to get other species to restock our rivers. Apparently the sea fishermen are the ones who will benefit from the restocking and with the Department of Fisheries, those who benefit most from the industry should also contribute to it.

I thank all those Deputies who have contributed to the debate and I appreciate very much the good wishes that have been extended to me and also to the Minister of State on our appointments.

It is encouraging for me at this early stage in my Ministry to have so much valuable comment and expert advice from Deputies on all sides of the House. The contributions have been enlightening and the confidence that has been expressed is encouraging for the fishing industry. However, there were some suggestions that the industry is in a chaotic state, but I would not accept that from anyone. It is very important that we instil confidence in the industry. Having heard the encouraging comments from Deputies from all parts of the country it would be my hope to go out from this debate and to succeed in instilling in the industry the confidence that has been expressed here. I am confident that our fishing industry can meet the challenges of the future and can expand and develop in the years ahead.

Cuireann sé áthas orm an méid Gaeilge a úsáideadh i rith na díospóireachta seo. Rud tábhachtach í sin de bharr an méid iascaireachta ins an Ghaeltacht. Faoi mar is eol daoibh, luadhadh a lán gnéithe den tionscal iascaireachta ins na horáidí atá i gceist agam.

Is mór an buntáiste dom díospóireacht chomh lán agus chomh fairsing agus a bhí againn ar an mBille seo. Is comhartha é don méid suime atá san tionscal iascaireachta agus tá súil agam go mbeidh dul ar aghaidh buan san tionscal i rith mo réime mar Aire.

There was a slight misunderstanding at the start of the debate regarding circulation of copies of my speech. When the official speech was made available on Tuesday I arranged to have copies supplied to Deputy Fitzpatrick, but so far as the remainder of my speech was concerned, my remarks were off the cuff so that there was no prepared script for them. I trust that the matter is clarified now.

Deputy Fitzpatrick and many other Deputies also spoke at length about the volume of fish imports. I agree that imports of fish into the EEC are not to the advantage of our fishing industry. The Community as a whole has been always a net importer of fish. Many of the other member states rely heavily on imports for their processing industries. Successive Irish Ministers for Fisheries have consistently resisted these imports, and with some success. I assure the House that I will continue that policy.

There were many references during the debate to fishing limits and the question of a 50-mile limit was raised. In my opinion we would never have been able to obtain agreement on a 50-mile limit. That is accepted now by almost everybody in the industry and I am sure Deputy Fitzpatrick realises this after his period in office.

Regarding the boat building industry I agree with Deputy Fitzpatrick that any BIM decision on an application for finance should be considered on its merits and not in terms of orders to the boatyards. I have not had the opportunity yet of examining in depth the problems of the boatyards. Reference has been made to vessels being built abroad. I should like to make it clear that BIM are not the people who place the orders for fishing boats. The board provide the grants but the decision as to where a vessel is purchased rests only with the skipper. This has been the position always and it would be undesirable for the board to dictate to the fishermen on this issue. However, I must point out that the board encourage fishermen to the maximum to have vessels built in Ireland and these efforts have been largely successful. A very limited number of vessels have been purchased abroad. The figures may help to put the matter in perspective. In the past seven years BIM helped to finance a total of 396 vessels of which 380, or 96 per cent, were built at home, with the remaining 16, or 4 per cent, being built abroad. Nevertheless, it is undesirable that boats for Irish fishermen should be built abroad when the boatyards at home are experiencing difficulties. I shall be having a close look at the whole boat building situation and, as a first step in that direction, I shall be visiting Killybegs on Monday next to discuss the situation with the various interests in the boatyards there.

Deputy Begley seemed to have been alone in criticising BIM. I consider his criticism to have been unjustified. It is accepted generally that the board are reasonable in their treatment of fishermen whose repayments are in arrears. Proof of this should be the fact that the board last year granted a two-year moratorium on arrears. Recourse to court proceedings is a last resort. The cases referred to by the Deputy were exceptional. I assure him that there is no mystery whatever about the employment of consultants by BIM. These consultants are from the Irish Productivity Centre who are engaged in examining the staff structure of the board and nothing else. The needs of the Irish industry have changed and BIM need to be considered in that light. The study that is being conducted has the agreement of the unions and it will be completed shortly. There is nothing sinister about it, but it is important that such a study be carried out at this time.

The £40 million which this Bill will authorise BIM to borrow will be used to finance new boats of 65 feet and less and for the provision of loans to fishermen for the improvement and engine replacement of existing boats in the next few years. It has nothing to do with office accommodation or with harbour development. I am not aware of any offer to sell the boatyards back to BIM. While I was not a member of the Government at the time I am satisfied that the right decision was taken on the sale of boatyards to the private sector. The operation of the yards by BIM was costing the State approximately £1 million a year and the workforce were faced with redundancies. The jobs of a majority of the workers were saved as a result of the sale. That in itself shows that the right decision was taken.

The Deputy need not worry that BIM propose to import second-hand foreign vessels. What the board's chief executive had in mind was the improvement and refurbishing of the existing fleet. Deputy Begley also referred to the representation of fishermen on the board. Fishermen have two representatives on board, including a former chairman of the IFO. Deputy Fitzpatrick will be fully aware of that.

We had a very valuable contribution from Deputy Gallagher. It is invaluable for me, starting off in this Department, to have the advice not only of a Deputy who has the feel of a constituency but also has expertise in this industry. I will be pleased to hear suggestions from both sides of the House during my time, whether it be long or short, in the Department. He also referred to seine netting and suggested that fishermen should be encouraged to switch to seine netting which was very popular here some years ago. Because of the cost involved some fishermen turned to trawling.

I agree with him that it is a less expensive method than trawling where white fishing is concerned, because of the lower power needed. Grants and loans are available from BIM for the conversion and improvement of fishing vessels, 25 per cent of cost by way of grants and up to 65 per cent by way of loan. At present grants are not available for gear except for the first issue. Loans are available for gear in certain circumstances. He suggested that I should study the matter and I will certainly do so and, if we can make any improvements in that regard, we will make them.

He referred at length to the salmon levy. The first issue he raised with me on my appointment was the vexed question of the salmon levy. A number of other Deputies referred to this as well and advocated the abolition of the salmon levy. Provision for the collection of the levy was included in the Fisheries Act, 1980. Its purpose was to raise funds to supplement State grants to help in the development of our valuable inland fisheries. It was, perhaps, unfortunate that the introduction of the levy coincided with a fall in salmon catches and a reduction in price. It is generally accepted that those who benefit from the development of our inland fisheries should contribute to their costs. I am reviewing the situation with a view, if possible, to finding an alternative to the levy. We have to augment the funds of £3.8 million which are available from the Exchequer for inland fisheries development this year. I am having a very close examination of the levy carried out and a decision will be made shortly.

Many Deputies spoke at length and very sincerely about safety at sea. Like other Deputies I too am very concerned about safety at sea. The legal responsibility in this area falls on the Minister for Transport. An inter-departmental committee, including representatives of my Department, are considering this very important matter at present. An EEC working group have also been set up, on which my Department are represented, to consider accidents on board fishing boats. I look forward with interest to the results of the deliberations of these groups.

In the short time while I was Minister of State at the Department of Labour I had responsibility for dealing with industrial accidents and putting through the 1980 Industrial Safety Act. I set up a commission of inquiry into industrial accidents which is sitting at present. I am not sure whether the members of that committee have any responsibility in this regard, or whether it might be possible for us to ask them to look at this area. I will await the outcome of the discussions with interest. All I can hope to do at this early stage is to impress upon everybody involved the dangers of the sea, and the dangers of not using the equipment available for the safety and protection of fishermen.

We must encourage the people involved to recognise that they cannot tamper with the sea. They must be cautious and take care, and use the protective and safety facilities which are available. Sometimes fishermen are not conscious of the dangers because of their everyday activities involving the sea, and sometimes they take it for granted. We must guard against that and encourage fishermen to use any facilities which might avert the type of tragedies we have had over the years.

There were some complaints about the failure of small boats to get FEOGA grants from the EEC. It is true that only a limited number of small boat applications have been successful in recent years. The basic problem is that sufficient money is not available to allow grants to be approved for all eligible applicants. On many occasions my Department have made representations to the Commission on this issue. I must stress that the final decision rests with the Commission and not with my Department. I will have a look at the situation in relation to all the applications pending. If there is any action I can usefully take, I will take it to try to get this matter rectified.

Deputy Deasy has wide experience of our fisheries industry. There has scarcely been a debate on fisheries in this House since I was elected in which Deputy Deasy has not given the House the benefit of his thorough knowledge of and expertise in this area. I should like to thank him for that. The danger of over-fishing of the western mackerel stocks has been brought to my attention and I share the concern expressed by Deputies and people outside the House. The basic problem arises because of lack of EEC agreement on TACs and quotas in recent years.

If agreement can be reached this year and in future years on the TACs recommended by the EEC scientific advisers, and these TACs are not exceeded, these valuable stocks will be safeguarded. The continuation of the present situation could have serious consequences, but one member state is powerless to act without the agreement of the others. We can only hope that good sense will prevail in 1982 and that agreement can be reached in good time on this year's TACs and quotas, not only for mackerel but for other species as well. I understand that the Commission will be submitting proposals in these areas shortly for 1982.

I have seen some reports of the outrageous over-fishing of TACs and quotas by other member states. It is an area we are watching very closely. There is a limit on what we can achieve on our own. It is a matter which will have to be taken up vigorously with the Community, and I will certainly do that.

Freezer trawlers have a role to play in the marketing of our mackerel catches until such time as shore facilities are adequate to process them. Foreign freezer trawlers should be subject to licence or other such control. My Department are examining this possibility, in consultation with the Commission whose approval is necessary.

Deputy Deasy highlighted the question of the quotas and the observance of the quotas. I fully agree that the fishing quotas in themselves are not sufficient: they have to be monitored, lived within and observed. The position is that agreement has not been reached on quotas within the EEC in recent years. We have had virtually a free-for-all situation develop. This cannot be tolerated any longer and is one of the reasons we must reach early agreement on this matter. Additionally we must ensure that any agreement reached is enforced and that the quotas laid down will be those implemented, nothing more. Of course there are problems for ourselves also. We must ensure that we take our quotas because this agreement works in both directions. We cannot complain about activities of other member states of the Community if we do not abide by the regulations ourselves. This is an area to which I shall be devoting special attention on my next visit to the EEC and I hope to achieve some satisfactory results in 1982.

Many Deputies spoke about research on mariculture, aquaculture and fisheries generally. Arrangements are being made at present to build a new all-weather fisheries research vessel of improved modern design in the Verolme Cork Dockyard. Of course the decision to build this vessel was taken by the last Fianna Fáil Government in 1980. The vessel will complement the modern fisheries research centre staffed by the Department's scientific staff which was opened in 1978.

Deputy Andrews referred this morning to the Shell Fish Research Centre at Carna, which is affiliated to University College, Galway. This centre is funded by the National Board for Science and Technology, not by my Department. Apparently they have had their funds severely restricted by the previous Government. Consequently they have had to cut back on their research laboratory. Deputy Higgins spoke very eloquently here yesterday about the necessity to develop aquacultural and maricultural activities. I must point out that he was involved in the Government which allowed the grants to be cut back on this very research centre in his constituency. Therefore there are contradictions there which are difficult to understand. On the one hand he spoke very strongly yesterday in favour of the need for research and development. Yet when the research was taking place funds were not provided by his administration. I feel it necessary that I, as a new Minister, in a Department for a few days only should engage in some research for my own benefit in order to clear my mind as to what should be my policy in various areas. I value Deputy Higgin's contribution. I know there is tremendous potential here but I do feel that in recent months Deputy Higgins should have practised what he preaches.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I am afraid that the kitty left us was fairly bare; there was no cupboard.

Could we live in the present now and proceed with the Minister's contribution?

(Cavan-Monaghan): We will give the people over there a couple of hours to see what money they are providing.

Perhaps we could allow the Minister to conclude.

There is definite scope for the development of mariculture particularly in shellfish and also for the development of natural shellfish beds. My Department are actively engaged in this development and other research activities. An Bord Iascaigh Mhara are also actively involved by way of their capital grants scheme and technical advisory services. Despite what has been said, reasonable progress has been made on maricultural developments.

Deputy Higgins referred yesterday to the need for planning and that mariculture is one area in which proper planning is essential. This has been the official approach. I have noted very carefully the points made by Deputy Higgins about the number of agencies involved and possible legal difficulties. Anybody who promotes any project involving structures on the foreshore is liable to the provisions of the Foreshore Act. This applies to semi-State bodies also. Similarly such promoters are bound by the provisions of the Planning Acts. The Deputy appeared to be suggesting that maricultural projects should be exempt from these requirements. He may have one or two specific projects in mind in regard to which certain difficulties may have arisen. If that is the case I should like to discuss them with him. Certainly my staff will be available to talk about any difficulties the Deputy may have encountered in his constituency. We are having consultations with the Attorney General's Office about certain aspects of the maricultural legislation. These consultations should be concluded fairly soon. In the meantime if there are individual cases in which individual Deputies have encountered problems of one kind or another we shall be available to talk to them and ascertain whether such problems can be eliminated.

A number of Deputies were concerned, and correctly so, about harbour improvements. Deputy Coughlan spoke at length about various harbours. Other Deputies also spoke about harbour developments and improvements. Again, as part of the visit I announced yesterday to the major fishing centres and other areas, I shall have a look at all the places in respect of which applications are outstanding in an effort to see how they can be expedited within the limits of the present financial resources. A sum of £4 million has been provided in the Estimate for this purpose, a major part of which is to be spent at Howth and Killybegs. But Cladagh na gCaorach—which sounds more like a place dealing with sheep than with fish—referred to by Deputy Coughlan will be given high priority.

The previous Fianna Fáil Government made a commitment to grant-aid a dredging scheme for Burtonport and this commitment will be honoured. I gladly accept Deputy Bellew's invitation to visit Clogher Head. It is my intention to visit all of these places, commencing at Killybegs on Monday. I hope to visit them all as soon as possible, meeting the various organisations there and to reap the benefit of their expertise and views. From my experience in fisheries—and I was involved as an executive for a short time on the Fisheries Board and as a member of a conservation board for a long number of years—I feel the best advice always is that proffered by the fishermen themselves. Therefore I hope that during my term in office I shall have the closest possible co-operation from them and benefit from their expertise which is gleaned from their practical, day-to-day operations. That is the best advice anybody can receive. I hope to benefit fully from such exchange of views between myself, the fishermen and their representatives.

I spoke briefly yesterday about the dumping of fish which was raised this morning by Deputy Deasy. This is most undesirable and must cease. I am personally concerned about this problem and have directed that every possible step be taken to ensure that dumping of withdrawn fish should not take place except where it is absolutely unavoidable. Perhaps it would be appropriate to put this into historical perspective. I might point out that in times of glut historically the way fishermen disposed of their surplus fish was at sea. That was understandable because of the product's perishable nature and the tendency of fish landings to occur in gluts. However, now that there is an intervention system in operation my aim is to reduce the dumping of fish at sea to an absolute minimum and, if at all possible, to eliminate it. It must be within the capacity of all of us involved —and voluntary organisations and others were mentioned earlier—within the intervention system to devise a way of completely eliminating the dumping of fish and have the maximum number caught.

Deputy Carey spoke about the conservation and protection of the Shannon. I have had a long association with the Shannon Fisheries on the conservation and protection of the Shannon. There have been difficulties encountered at the mouth of the Shannon for many years because of the illegal usage of nets there. This constitutes a difficult task for the Limerick Regional Board and the Shannon Regional Board who have always been concerned and are fully commited to eliminating as far as possible, within the limits of their resources, this illegal fishing at the mouth of the Shannon which is damaging to the Shannon fisheries.

I should like to take this opportunity to thank the members of the Shannon Board and the ESB. By their work in the fisheries at Parteen and their enlightened approach during the years since the Shannon fisheries were vested in the ESB they have helped considerably in the development of the Shannon salmon fisheries. Were it not for the fact that the ESB, through their fisheries manager and their fisheries division, were so alive to the problems and so active in ensuring that proper steps were taken to conserve salmon stocks and to promote re-stocking in the Shannon, there would not be any salmon in the Shannon now. From the taggings carried out by the ESB there has been evidence in recent years that the main bulk of stocks of salmon in the Shannon are hatchery stocks. This is a cause of concern because the traditional Shannon salmon appears to be very scarce. We are relying almost totally on the work of the hatcheries and the development work carried out by the ESB.

One of the areas that will need to be looked at more closely is the involvement of the Fisheries Division in fish hatcheries and in the production of more stocks for rivers and catchments. The Department will have to consider this matter carefully. We cannot have the ESB dealing totally with it. I will direct more attention to this matter to see how we can help further with the development of hatcheries and restocking of the Shannon. Yesterday I announced meetings with the new Central Fisheries Board and with the regional boards, I shall be having discussions with them immediately. I will give high priority to the area of development which will be even more important in the future. In the past we have tended to look more at conservation to protect existing stocks rather than the development of salmon and trout fisheries. If action is needed in this area it will be taken.

Deputies from all sides spoke about difficulties with regard to infrastructural developments which are impeding work on harbours. Mention was made of bad roads and poor telephone communications. These and other factors in isolated western areas have been damaging not only to the development of fisheries but also to developments in other areas. One of the major differences in policy between this Government and previous Coalition Governments has been that we have always had a very strong commitment to regional development. The previous Government's treatment of our plans for decentralisation was a scandalous disregard for regional development. The plans were at an advanced stage but they were scrapped by the Coalition Government. However, I will not dwell on that matter now as we are discussing a Bill dealing with sea fisheries. Telecommunications, good roads, and the provision of water and lighting at piers and harbours are vital. Under Fianna Fáil we will have a far better deal in these matters than was obtained during the term of office of the previous Government. It is our intention to see that the strong regional policy we have always had will be developed further.

I wish to thank Deputies for their good wishes on my appointment and to assure them that I am deeply committed to resolving the major problems that face the fishing industry now. No effort will be spared by me to see that problems are dealt with. I will do this to the best of my ability and the ultimate limit of my capacity.

Question put and agreed to.

I ask the House to fix a date for Committee Stage.

Next Tuesday.

(Cavan-Monaghan): Subject to agreement between the Whips.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 30 March 1982.
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