Financial Resolutions, 1982. - Financial Resolution No. 6: General (Resumed). – Dáil Éireann (23rd Dáil) – Thursday, 27 May 1982

Financial Resolutions, 1982. - Financial Resolution No. 6: General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.

—(Minister for Finance).

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Richard Bruton is in possession and has 17 minutes left.

It would be appropriate to start by saying how glad I am that our audience has been increased by one since yesterday and I am sure I am joined by all Members of this House in welcoming Deputy Liam Skelly and wishing him success in his years here.

Whether the Government go to the country for an election in the next three days, three months or three years, they will be judged by whether they have seriously tried to come to grips with the problems of the economy. The voters are thoroughly browned off. They are frustrated at a system that stifles any attempt by the ordinary punter, be he employee or small businessman, to reap the rewards of effort while the big prizes still await the practitioners of sharp turns. He is frustrated at a system that traps the low paid within a scheme of means-tested assistance where an extra £ earned means the sacrifice of at least £1.50 in lost benefits such as medical cards, differential rents and so on. It is a system which encourages firms to re-equip with imported machinery rather than train school leavers for employment.

It is the young voters who are most frustrated and 60,000 young people wake each morning without jobs to go to outside their own homes. This is taking a heavy toll. In my constituency I daily meet young couples, both of whom are without jobs. The only way they can get a house is when they have children even though they may not have employment or the means to support them. This is a very rough prospect for the young people. I have visited schools in my area and have found that amid the examination fever there is total despondency about job prospects. It is particularly sad to see that so many young girls leaving school cannot look forward to getting employment experience outside early marriage. We are regressing towards a situation that existed 20 or 25 years ago.

I am convinced voters will not be fobbed off once again by a discursive economic plan such as we had from Fianna Fáil from 1977 to 1981, full of rosy ideals but devoid of any hard policies. Neither will they be fobbed off by a voluminous survey of the evolution of the tangled monument that is our tax system nowadays. The voters are casting a cold eye on the budget before us today. They are asking questions such as why did the budget rob 70,000 low paid workers of up to £10 per week. They are asking questions such as why did the budget put employers in the position that they have to pay £80 direct to the Government for the privilege of giving employees £100 in take-home pay. Yet, at the same time, this budget will make it cheaper for such employers to replace men by re-equipping with machinery. Voters want to know what are the phantom taxes the Government will dream up to meet the £265 million of tax revenue still to be collected in the next 12 months. This has been left shrouded in a dark pall of mystery by the Government, sometimes described euphemistically as tax buoyancy or sometimes as mysterious economies in spending or in new taxation. Voters want to know what these taxes will be but the Minister has not told us or even indicated he is willing to tell us.

The real challenge we will face in the coming years and the challenge by which this Government will be judged is whether we face up to the problem of employing our young population. If the Government are serious about this they must tackle immediately two major administrative blockages in the system that are preventing our young people from finding jobs.

The first is the one I have mentioned, namely, the enormous heavy loading that bears on the employer who wishes to take on a young man instead of equipment to replace him. This burden is enshrined in our grants system, in the patchwork system of corporation profits tax which gives large depreciation allowances to a person who puts in machinery but no such allowance to someone who invests in the workforce. It also exists in the high entry points in many pay scales. This is a matter we should study carefully.

The more profound matter we have not discussed is in relation to the barriers to entry that exist for so many young people seeking employment. Last week in my constituency in Coolock a young man came to me. He had four years experience in fire-fighting in the sea service of the RAF but despite that experience and the diplomas he had to prove his competence he was told he was not eligible to be even considered for a place in our fire-fighting service because he did not have his intermediate certificate. If that is not a barrier to entry that needs to be removed I do not know what it is. It goes far deeper than that. In all the professions, medical, veterinary and legal, there are enormous barriers of unnecessary educational requirements. There are barriers through licences and franchises provided by the Government to guarantee to those professions that it is they and only they who do the jobs that I am convinced could be just as easily done by para-professionals with shorter training. It would then be within the reach of ordinary working families to put their children through the necessary degree of training needed to get into those professions. There are enormous restrictive practices in the professions that this House has not even started to tackle.

Beyond this the Government must consider seriously the way our community approaches the employment-creation goal throughout the economy. Our educational system has been completely service-oriented. It is hardly surprising that the attitude has developed that it is a responsibility of the Government always to provide jobs. During the years the Government have financed most of the service areas and if our educational system is gearing people to go into those areas our system is also geared for the Government to provide jobs for those people and to do so out of the taxpayers' money. This has been the catch we have been in in the past 20 years. There is a need to re-orientate our educational system, to put more emphasis on work at the skilled level, on innovation and on carrying through business ideas to fruition, where a young man or woman would get experience in setting up a business and running it. For most of our third level graduates nothing is more foreign to them than to set up any business of their own. I am glad to see that the first moves are being made in this direction. The NIHE have at last made the setting up of a business a part of their courses. They are training people to go through the financial, administrative and production aspects of getting a business to the point of take-off. I am glad also that the IDA have started to develop incubator units for skilled employees in order to provide jobs. We must bring this attitude to second level schooling. There the emphasis is still on academic subjects, on the service based industries. We must carry out reform in this area.

If we make a realistic appraisal of where jobs will come from in the next 20 years we face a bleak prospect. Agriculture continues to decline and none of the commentators seem able to come up with a way to arrest that decline. Industry will be lucky if it manages to offset redundancies and to take up the decline in farm employment. The implication is that we must take a harder look at the service sector as a source for self-sustaining jobs. There is no doubt in my mind that in the public service there is a myriad of jobs to be done. There are areas of assistance to old people, to the mentally handicapped and to slow learners but at the moment we have got into a real bind. We have a dual economy in the services sector: either we are providing it through the Government where there is a highly skilled and a highly paid administration with much of the money taken up in administrative tasks and with a large capital back-up or, on the other hand, public service jobs are being catered for by voluntary service. They are living on the smell of an oil rag, relying on charitable financing.

We need to pioneer a new concept of public service that would put responsibility back in the hands of the community, both for providing the needed social services and for providing jobs for people to work in those services. It should rest on new pillars, on a new approach to services employment. First, there should be a grants system that would offer to voluntary agencies the possibility of employing for a limited period—say, two years—young people to provide services for people who are in need in their areas. I would suggest, for example, that the St. Vincent de Paul Society who would identify needs in old people's homes should be given money to take on young people for a limited period who would do the necessary redecoration work. During that time these young people would get a genuine training in the skills that are needed and they would also be supervised not by a heavy civil service administration that was absorbing a lot of public money but essentially by voluntary workers, by people who had acquired skills in the course of their working lives and were now willing to put them to the services to the community. If we move in that direction we will not only provide better services to the community but we will be able to provide much more in the way of employment with public money. Such a scheme should be based not on the use of the highly-skilled and professional people such as doctors and vets but on the use of the para-professionals, people who have had short training, who are able to do jobs without having gone through the six tedious years of education that bars most of our working families from providing that sort of an education.

In the past few years we have had a lot of talk about Government borrowing. However, the worry is not about the level of Government borrowing but that we are not getting a decent return from the money we are borrowing or spending and that are we are dissipating this money at a time when we should be providing real employment opportunities. I have already said that the scanty information that is provided to this House on the work of many public spending projects verges on the criminal. There is no effective control on the expenditure that this House sanctions. If we were a board of management of a company instead of the Dáil looking at these proposals we would be laughed out of court. The folly lies in the here and now as we squander scarce investment resources and dissipate our hopes of providing employment for our young people in the years ahead.

Aire na Gaeltachta (Mr. Flynn)

Ba mhaith liom i dtosach báire tréaslú leis an Aire Airgeadais as an iarracht mhacánta atá déanta aige cáinaisnéis chothrom a thabhairt isteach d'ainneoin na ndeac-rachtaí éagsúla a bhí ag brú air. Is deimhin liom go bhfuil tuiscint aige do na fadhbanna atá ag cur as dúinn sa tír seo agus go bhfuil tús an-mhaith curtha aige, san achar gairid ama a bhí ar fáil dó, le réiteach a fháil ar na fadhbanna sin.

Is eol dúinn uile nach raibh le cloisteáil ón Rialtas a cuireadh as oifig tús na bliana seo ach an t-olagón caointeach, clamhsánach fad a bhí siad i réim. Bhíodh liodáin dhuairc, ghruama de chora crua an tsaoil á gcur os ár gcomhair gach dara lá agus gan aon réiteach ann dóibh, dar leo. Is beag aird a bhí acu, de réir deal-raimh, má bhí daoine gan obair, gan tithe, gan slí bheatha, gan mheanma, gan dóchas, gan cheannas, gan stiúir, gan treoir, de bharr a gcuid geaitsíochta. Ach buíochas le Dia tá deireadh leis an ré truamhéileach sin anois. Bhí muinín ag Fianna Fáil i gcónaí as muintir na tíre seo mar go dtuigeann siad go maith go bhfuil an gus agus an teacht aniar iontu chun fadhbanna agus deacrachtaí a shárú, ach an treoir cheart a bheith ar fáil dóibh. Is deimhin liom go bhfuil treoir dhearfach dá réir sin ar fáil anois agus go ndéanfar dul chun cinn fiúntach sna blianta atá romhainn.

Léiríonn an cháinaisnéis a thug an tAire Airgeadais isteach Déardaoin, 25 Márta, gur féidir cúrsaí a eagrú ar bhealach daonna, stuama mar mhalairt ar an gcáinaisnéis gharbh, mhíthrócaireach a chuir an ComhRialtas os comhair na Dála mí Eanáir seo caite. Is léir freisin go dtitfidh na cánacha ab éigean a thabhairt isteach, orthu siúd sa phobal is fearr atá in ann iad a iompar.

Cuimhnímis siar ar na rudaí a bhí i gceist ag an gComhRialtas: Cáin bhreis-luacha 18 faoin gcéad le cur ar éadaí agus ar bhróga, gan beann ar an dífhostaíocht a leanfadh de sin. Beartaigh siad deireadh a chur leis an bhfóirdheontas ar bhia rud a chuirfeadh 8½p breise ar phunt ime agus 4p ar phionta bainne. Ach buíochas le Dia ní tharlóidh aon cheann de na tubaistí sin anois. Ní bheidh aon cháin bhreisluacha ar éadaí ná ar bhróga agus ní chuirfear deireadh leis na fóirdheontais ar bhia.

Tá socraithe freisin nach ngearrfar cáin ar shochair leasa shóisialaigh ghearr-théarmacha — rud a bhí i gceist ag an gComhRialtas freisin. Cuireadh méaduithe fiúntacha leasa shóisialaigh ar fáil, mar shampla: meadaíodh na liúntais leanaí do bhean le beirt chlainne ó £15 sa mhí go dtí £22.50 sa mhí; tá £45 sa mhí le fáil ag bean le ceathrar clainne — méadú de £12 sa mhí.

Cuireadh méadú 25 faoin gcéad le sochair leasa shóisialaigh freisin. Mar shampla; tá £16.61 breise sa tseachtain le fáil ag fear pósta le triúr clainne mar shochar dífhostaíochta nó mar shochar míchumais — rud a thabharfaidh £82.80 ar fad sa tseachtain dó le liúntais leanaí san áireamh; tá £15.06 breise sa tseachtain le fáil ag baintreach faoi 66 bliana d'aois le triúr clainne a bhfuil pinsean ranníocach baintrí aici, rud a thabharfaidh £75.10 sa tseachtain di le liúntais leanaí san áireamh; tá £14.05 breise sa tseachtain le fáil ag lánúin phósta faoi 80 bliana d'aois ar phinsean ranníocach seanaoise rud a thabharfaidh £70.30 sa tseachtain dóibh.

I leith cháin ioncaim, níl aon fhianaise ann go bhfuil buntáiste ó thaobh coth-roim de ag creidis chánach agus níor léirigh mná tí aon spéis mhór sa £9.60 a bhí le hathú chucu ón teacht isteach a bheadh ag dul d'fhear an tí. Ní haon ionadh é sin ar ndóigh nuair a smaoinítear air go raibh an t-airgead sin le baint amach as pócaí a gcéilí pósta cé nach é sin an dealramh a cuireadh ar an scéal nuair a bhí na scéim á bhfógairt i dtús báire. Ach ba ghearr go bhfaca na daoine nach raibh aon fhiúntas dáiríre ann dóibh. Is fearr a chabhróidh na socruithe cánach a tugadh isteach sa cháinaisnéis, gan dearmad a dhéanamh ar na socruithe is déanaí a rinneadh faoi PRSI, leo siúd atá ar ioncaim ísle nó sa lár réimse ioncaim. Agus ná déanaimis dearmad de go bhfuil liúntais ar aon dul le liúntais do dhaoine pósta ag dul do thuismitheoirí ar baint-reacha iad agus do thuismitheoirí singil; agus gur feabhsaíodh na teorainneacha saor ó cháin do dhaoine ar ioncaim ísle i gcaoi gur saoradh 24,000 duine breise ó cháin d'aon saghas. Níl aon dabht ach go bhfuil deacrachtaí airgeadais againn faoi láthair. Ach caithfimid réiteach ar na fadhbanna sin a aimsiú le stuamacht agus le críonnacht gan dochar a dhéanamh d'eacnamaíocht na tíre. Sin é an aidhm atá againn agus sin é a dhéanfar.

Is féidir a rá go raibh trí phríomhaidhm leis an gcáinaisnéis: (1) Fostaíocht bhreise a chur ar fáil dár muintir agus go háirithe do dhaoine óga; (2) Teacht i gcabhair ar an chuid sin dár muintir is mó atá ina chall; agus (3) Boilsciú a laghdú.

Is í an fhadhb is mó atá le réiteach ná ceist na fostaíochta agus tá aird ar leith á díriú ar an bhfadhb sin sa cháinaisnéis. Nach bhfuil sé ag dul do mhuintir na tíre seo go mbeidh poist ar fáil dóibh ina dtír dhúchais féin? Cinnte tá an méid sin ag dul dóibh agus is é an phríomhaidhm atá ag Rialtas Fhianna Fáil ná tuilleadh fostaíochta a chruthú feadh a gcumais: agus tabharfar aird speisialta ar phoist do dhaoine óga.

Mar chabhair chuige sin tá £50 milliún breise á sholáthar tríd an gcáinaisnéis don tionscal tógála — tionscal a bhí criogtha nach mór sa seacht mí a raibh an ComhRialtas i gcumhacht. Cabhróidh an t-airgead flaithiúil sin — ní ionann is an soláthar suarach a bhí i gceist ag an gComhRialtas — le seirbhísí tábhachtacha ar nós tithíochta ag na húdaráis áitiúla, bóithre, saoráidí séarachais, deontais níos fairsinge chun tithe a fheabhsú, na seirbhísí múchta dóiteán agus mar sin de.

Nach léir gur spéis le Fianna Fáil na hoibreacha tábhachtacha sin agus dár ndóigh an fhostaíocht a chuirfidh siad ar fáil. Beidh suim ar leith ag daoine atá ag lorg fostaíochta sa soláthar breise seo agus léireoidh sé go soiléir agus go beacht do chách an tuiscint atá ag Rialtas Fhianna Fáil do na daoine atá gan obair agus an fonn a bhíonn orthu gach is féidir a dhéanamh le fostaíocht shochrach a chur ar fáil dóibh. Lena chois sin tá £4 mhilliún breise á sholáthar ar mhaithe le feabhsúcháin sa scéim spreagtha fostaíochta.

Faoi mar a cuireadh in iúl le déanaí tá an plean don eacnamaíocht atá á ullmhú ag an Rialtas go maith chun tosaigh agus beidh sé sin mar threoir againn do bheartais eacnamaíochta go ceann trí nó ceithre bliana ar aghaidh. Is den riach-tanas é go gcomhoibreóimís uile go fonn-mhar le chéile ar mhaithe le muintir na hÉireann agus ar mhaithe leis an tír féin. Faoin bplean atá á ullmhú beifear in ann ár n-acmhainní, ár scileanna, agus ár saineolas a chomhdhlúthú agus a chomh-ordú in aon mhóriarracht amháin d'fhonn an leas is fearr a bhaint astu agus réiteach a fháil ar an gcúlú trí fhorbairt na heac-namaíochta.

Glactar leis go coitianta gurb é ceann de na riachtanais is mó atá ann faoi láthair má táthar le bunstruchtúr na tíre seo a fheabhsú — i gcaoi go mbeidh sé inchur-tha lena mhacasamhail i gceann ar bith eile do Chomhphobal Eacnamaíochta na hEorpa agus i gcaoi go bhféadfar dul chun cinn fiúntach a dhéanamh ar mhaithe le leas sóisialach na tíre — ná cúrsaí teileachumarsáide a fheabhsú go mór. Tá an tAire Poist agus Telegrafa ag brú ar aghaidh le plean chúig bliana chun an aidhm sin a bhaint amach agus tá gach dóchas aige go mbeifear in ann cloí leis an bplean sin. Tá tús curtha leis an obair cheana féin agus beidh fáilte mhór roimh na feabhsúcháin a dhéanfar go mór mór sna ceantair thuaithe agus go háirithe san iarthar. Beidh costas ollmhór i gceist — breis agus £220 milliún anuraidh agus £238.5 milliún i mbliana. Dá mbeadh córas teileachumarsáide sásúil againn chabhródh sé go mór chun tionscail a mhealladh go dtí cuid de cheantair iargúlta na Gaeltachta go háirithe.

Is í an Ghaeltacht foinse agus tobar ár dteanga agus ár gcultúir agus is í a chaomhnaigh dúinn an chuid is luach-mhaire dár n-oidhreacht. Is léir dúinn uile, a bhfuil spéis againn san oidhreacht sin, go bhfuil tábhacht ar leith leis an nGaeltacht. Tá an-áthas ormsa go bhfuil de phribhléid agam cúrsaí na Gaeltachta agus na Gaeilge a bheith faoi mo chúram mar Aire agus is mian liom a dhearbhú go ndéanfaidh mé gach uile rud is féidir liom chun leas na Gaeltachta agus na Gaeilge araon a chur chun cinn.

Beidh cás ann le cabhair speisialta a thabhairt do mhuintir na Gaeltachta fad a bheidh an Ghaeilge mar ghnáthurlabhra acu ach, dá dtarlódh nach mar sin a bheadh, ní bheadh cás ann a thuilleadh leis an gcabhair sin a thabhairt dóibh. Mura mbeidh an Ghaeilge á labhairt ar chóir don Rialtas airgead speisialta a chur ar fáil gach bliain lena chaitheamh ar mhaithe leis an nGaeltacht? Murach an Ghaeilge cén gnó a bheadh d'Aire na Gaeltachta, do Roinn na Gaeltachta ná d'Údarás na Gaeltachta?

Is é an trua é go bhfuil brú an Bhéarla ó gach uile thaobh ar phobal na Gaeltachta agus go bhfuil meath ag teacht ar an teanga dá dheasca sin. Ní foláir dúinn cur chuige láithreach leis an meath sin a chosc agus le muintir na Gaeltachta a spreagadh i dtreo go mbeidh fonn orthu cloí leis an nGaeilge. Chun é sin a dhéanamh beimid ag brath go mór ar na comharchumainn Ghaeltachta a dtugaimid cúnamh fial dóibh.

Chun feabhas a chur ar bhunstruchtúr na Gaeltachta bíonn roinnt mhaith scéimeanna á reachtáil go díreach ag mo Roinn féin agus na milliúin phunt á gcaitheamh orthu in aghaidh na bliana. Baineann na scéimeanna sin le tithe cónaithe, bóithre áise agus portaigh, uisce agus séarachas, muiroibreacha, comharchumainn, hallaí pobail agus áiseanna éagsúla. Chomh maith leis sin tugann an Roinn deontais do mhná tí a choinníonn foghlaimeoirí Gaeilge. Cuidíonn an cúnamh sin uile chun an Ghaeltacht a chaomhnú agus a neartú.

Le tamall beag anuas tá cuid mhaith lochtú déanta ar Údarás na Gaeltachta agus tá aird na meán cumarsáide tarr-aingthe ar a chuid gníomhaíochtaí. B'inmholta an rud é mar sin go soiléireófaí roinnt pointí suntasacha maidir le feidhmeanna na heagraíochta sin agus maidir lena bhfuil i ndán dí. Deirtear go soiléir in alt a 8 den Acht Um Údarás na Gaeltachta, 1979, go ndéanfaidh an tÚdarás caomhnú agus leathadh na Gaeilge mar phríomh-mheán cumarsáide sa Ghaeltacht a spreagadh agus go gcinnteoidh sé gurb í an Ghaeilge a úsáidfear a mhéid is féidir nuair a bheidh a fheidhmeanna á gcomhlíonadh aige agus thar a cheann. Chomh maith leis sin is feidhm de chuid an Údaráis é cibé tionscail agus scéimeanna táirgiúla fostaíochta is oiriúnach leis a sholáthar, a sheoladh, a rialú agus a riar.

Aontaíonn gach duine gurb í an Ghaeilge an chomhartha is suntasaí dár náisiúntacht agus gur cuid riachtanach dár gcultúr í. D'fhonn an teanga Ghaeilge a chaomhnú agus a shlánú tá sé thar a bheith riachtanach go mairfidh an Ghaeltacht agus ar an gcúis sin tá freagracht ollmhór ar an Údarás do mhuintir na hÉireann.

Tá géar-ghá le heagraíocht de leithéid Údarás na Gaeltachta mar phríomhghléas chun forbairt tionsclaíochta a chur chun cinn sa Ghaeltacht agus ní foláir é sin a thuiscint go soiléir. In ainneoin cúnamh fial Stáit a bheith á chur ar fáil don Ghaeltacht le fada, is amhlaidh a bhí an daonra inti ag ag dul ar gcúl. Is chun an scéal sin a leigheas a cuireadh Gaeltarra Éireann ar bun — Údarás na Gaeltachta anois.

Bhí fadhbanna ollmhóra le sárú ag an dá eagraíocht, áfach, ó thaobh na gceantar faoina gcúram; faoi mar is eol dúinn is ceantair iargúlta atá sa chuid is mó den Ghaeltacht agus go dtí le déanaí bhí easnaimh iontu ó thaobh seirbhísí bunúsacha fiú. Ina theannta sin bhí ceangal ar Ghaeltarra scaireanna a ghlacadh i ngach togra mór a raibh cúnamh á chur ar fáil ina leith.

Ní minic a bhíonn fonn ar thionsclaithe scaireanna i dtionscail mhaithe a thabhairt do dhream eile agus tharla dá bharr sin gur lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht a bunaíodh cuid mhór de na tograí is fearr agus gur tograí a bhí lag go leor a lonnaíodh sa Ghaeltacht. Ba é an toradh a bhí leis sin ná go raibh Gaeltarra gafa cuid mhaith i gcomhfhiontair a raibh blas láidir fiontraíochta ag baint leo. Caithfear a thuiscint freisin go mbíonn contúirt ann i gcónaí i gcás caipitil fiontraíochta: agus b'éigean, faraoir, suimeanna móra airgid a infheistíodh a dhíscríobh le tamall de bhlianta anuas.

Ní miste a rá freisin go raibh deacracht ann i gcónaí bainisteóirí den scoth a mhealladh le dul i mbun tograí sna ceantair Ghaeltachta. Má tá tionscail le dul chun cinn fiúntach a dhéanamh is den riachtanas é go mbeadh bainisteoirí oilte, éifeachtacha ina mbun. Bhí easpa bain-istíochta den chineál sin ag cur as go mór do thionscail Ghaeltachta leis na blianta ach tá dul chun cinn nach beag déanta chun an t-easnamh sin a leigheas. Tharla cúlú tubaisteach eacnamaíochta le tamall anuas, áfach, agus chuir sé isteach go mór Údaráis; agus, ar ndóigh, ní sa Ghaeltacht amháin a bhí fadhbanna mar sin.

Bhí fíor-dhrochthionchar ag na méaduithe móra i bpraghsanna ola agus ag an gcúlú domhanda ar chuid de na tionscail a bunaíodh le caipiteal fiontraíochta. Dá thoradh sin, b'éigean do Ghaeltarra agus don Údarás iarrachtaí a dhéanamh chun comhlachtaí a tharr-tháil. Níor éirigh go maith le cuid de na hiarrachtaí sin, áfach, agus ansin bhí an rogha le déanamh ar cheart tuilleadh airgid fós a chur isteach i gcomhlacht, cé go raibh an baol ann go gcaillfí an infheistíocht ar fad, nó deireadh a chur le tionscal agus an fhostaíocht a bhí ann. Uaireanta ní raibh aon rogha réasúnach ach dúnadh mar ní fhéadfaí a rá go raibh an rath i ndán do thionscail áirithe. Is dá dheasca sin a tharla éilimh mhóra ar an Státchiste agus cuid mhaith iomarcaíochta i gceantair Ghaeltachta — níl aon dabht ann ach go ndearnadh an cinneadh ceart san fhadtéarma, is é sin, infheistíochtaí áirithe a dhíscríobh agus tionscail a raibh caillteanais mhóra orthu a dhúnadh. Faraoir tharraing an beartas sin, cé gurb é an ceann ceart é, amhras áirithe ar inchreidteacht an Údaráis.

Ní miste a chur san áireamh i gcónaí, áfach, go bhfuil breis agus 4,000 duine ag obair i dtionscail a fuair cúnamh ó Ghaeltarra agus ón Údarás agus, má fhágtar cúpla drochbhliain ar lár, go raibh fás leanúnach ar an bhfostaíocht — rud a chuidigh go mór leis na ceantair Ghaeltachta.

Cé gur furasta a rá i ndeireadh na dála nár cheart tacaíocht den mhéid a bhí i gceist a thabhairt do thograí áirithe, caithfear smaoineamh air go mbíonn sé rí-dheacair tarraingt siar go tobann as tograí nuair a bhíonn airgead mór Stáit curtha isteach iontu. Bíonn brú láidir leanúnach ann chun tionscail mar sin a choinneáil ar siúl. Bíonn baol ann i gcónaí, ar ndóigh, nuair is caipiteal fiontraíochta a bhíonn i gceist agus bíonn gá le bainistíocht chumasach i gcás mar sin. Bíonn monatóireacht leanúnach de dhíth freisin i gcaoi go n-aithneofar aon laigí go tapaidh agus ní foláir gníomhú láithreach chun iad a cheartú.

Caithfear glacadh leis go mbíonn an baol ann go dteipfidh ar thograí áirithe agus go mbeidh infheistíochtaí le díscríobh dá dheasca sin. Léiríonn a bhfuil déanta ag an Údarás, áfach, le tamall anuas go bhfuil fonn orthu gníomhú de réir mar is gá chun laigí a leigheas.

Tá an chosúlacht ann, dáiríre, go bhfuil feachtas ar bun ag dreamanna áirithe i gcoinne an Údaráis agus i deacair a dhéanamh amach an i gcoinne an Údaráis, i gcoinne na Gaeltachta nó i gcoinne na Gaeilge féin atá an feachtas sin dírithe. Tá rud amháin cinnte agus is é sin go raibh droch-thionchar nach beag ag an bhfeachtas sin ar chúrsaí an Údaráis le tamall anuas agus gurb iad an Ghaeltacht agus an Ghaeilge araon a bheidh thíos leis ar deireadh. De réir mar a fheic-imse é níl cothrom na féinne tugtha don Údarás, do Ghaeltarra Éireann a chuaigh roimhe ná do na fostuithe oilte éifeachtacha atá i mbun oibre ar mhaithe leis an nGaeltacht. Bítear ag iarraidh a thabhairt le fios freisin go bhfuil eolas á cheilt ón bpobal ach níl bunús dá laghad leis sin, dar ndóigh, ó tharla go bhfoilsítear sonraí iomlána go rialta i dtaobh íocaíochtaí agus cúrsaí eile a bhaineann leis an Údarás.

B'fhéidir gur fiú a lua freisin go ndéanann iniúchóirí cáilithe iniúchadh de réir Acht na gCuideachtaí ar gach uile chuideachta ina bhfuil scaireanna ag an Údarás. Is é an tArd-Reachtaire Cuntas agus Ciste a dhéanann iniúchadh ar chuntais an Údaráis féin agus ar chuntais fhochomhlachtaí áirithe chomh maith. Táimse i gcomhairle le comhaltaí an Údaráis faoi láthair maidir le gach gné dá gcuid gníomhaíochtaí agus measaim gur ceart go mbeadh athbhreithniú leanúnach ar siúl ar fheidhmeanna an Údaráis agus ar na beartais atá ann d'fhonn a gcuid aidhmeanna a bhaint amach. Tá sé fíor-riachtanach, dar liom, go n-athdhearbhódh an tÚdarás a chuid dualgas maidir le caomhnú agus leathadh na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht. Caithfear a thuiscint go soiléir gur de bharr na Gaeilge a bunaíodh é an chéad lá agus, mura n-éiríonn leis dul chun cinn a dhéanamh ó thaobh na teanga, nach bhfuil cúis ar bith ann dó. Ag an bpointe seo, tá sé ar intinn agamsa an scamall amhrais atá ag brú ar chúrsaí an Údaráis a ghlanadh agus muinín san eagraíocht a athbhunú chun gur féidir leis feidhmiú go lánéifeachtach: murar féidir é sin a dhéanamh ní bheidh an eagraíocht in ann gníomhú mar ba chóir ar mhaithe leis an nGaeltacht agus leis an nGaeilge.

(Cur isteach.)

Sílimse go bhfuil dochar mór déanta trí chúlchaint agus ráflaí d'inchreidteacht na mbainisteoirí proifisiúnta atá ag iarraidh an Ghaeltacht a fhorbairt agus teastaíonn uaim an tréimhse mhí-ámharach seo i stair na Gaeltachta a chur ó chuimhne a luaithe agus is féidir.

Is é atá uaimse ná go mbeidh Udarás na Gaeltachta ag feidhmiú go héifeachtach mar ghníomhaireacht forbartha i gcaoi go mbeidh an dúshraith chuí thionscalaíochta á cur síos ar a bhféadfar tógáil d'fhonn dóthain fostaíochta a chruthú agus caighdeán maireachtála a chur ar fáil do mhuintir na Gaeltachta a bheidh ar a laghad inchur-tha leis an gcaighdeán sa chuid eile den tír. Chun an sprioc sin a bhaint amach b'fhéidir go mbeadh fochomhlachtaí eile nach bhfuil ag éirí go maith leo le dúnadh ach bheadh dóchas agamsa go n-éireodh linn athstruchtúrú airgeadais a dhéanamh ar chinn a bhfuil cumas brabaigh iontu.

Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach go mbeidh córas éifeachtach ann chun an chéad rian de dheacrachtaí i bhfo-chomhlachtaí agus i gcomhlachtaí eile a aithint. Is gá monatóireacht ghéar a dhéanamh ar na gníomhaíochtaí uile atá faoi chúram an Údaráis. Tá modh imeachta dá leithéid i bhfeidhm cheana féin. Creidim gurb é an toradh a bheidh air sin ná go dtuillfear brabach trádála de ghnáth agus nach mbeidh fochomhlachtaí le dúnadh ach i gcásanna fíor-eisceachtúla. Ní miste córas den chineál céanna a chur i bhfeidhm i gcás na gcomhchomhlachtaí nach bhfuil faoi smacht an Údaráis ó tharla nach bhfuil ach mionlach de na scaireanna ag an Údarás iontu.

Beidh ar an Údarás clár forbartha a cheapadh agus a chur i gcrích chun gur féidir leis a spriocanna fostaíochta do na cúig bliana atá romhainn a bhaint amach. Meastar go gcaithfear 7,000 post nua a chruthú sa tréimhse sin agus chun é sin a dhéanamh, beifear ag súil le cúnamh mór ón Údarás Forbartha Tionscail mar is tríd an Údarás sin a dhéantar poiblíocht thar lear. Is cúis sásaimh dom go bhfuil comh-oibriú maith á fháil ón Údarás sin anois agus ba mhaith liom go neartófaí an comhoibriú tuilleadh sna blianta atá romhainn.

Caithfear aird ar leith a dhíriú ar mhiontionscail ós cosúil gurb iad is oiriúnaí do na ceantair Ghaeltachta. Beidh sé riachtanach freisin gach is féidir a dhéanamh i ndáil le forbairt talmhaíochta, forbairt na hiascaireachta agus forbairt na tuarasóireachta chun go bhféadfar an tairbhe is fearr is féidir a bhaint astu. Tá na modhanna oibre a bhaineann le feirmeoireacht éisc ag dul i bhfeabhas i gcónaí agus leis na modhanna nua iascaireachta atá ag teacht ar aghaidh agus an fhorbairt i gcúrsaí muir-eolaíochta agus talmhaíochta, feictear dom go bhfuil deiseanna maithe ann chun fostaíocht de chineál nua a chur ar fáil sa Ghaeltacht. Is ar éigean atá go leor béime curtha go dtí seo ar an tuarasóireacht agus, nuair a chuirtear san áireamh na deiseanna atá ann sa réimse sin, is mithid tabhairt faoi fhorbairt na tuarasóireachta le dearcadh úrnua. Glactar leis go for-leathan anois go bhfuil buanna ar leith ag iarthar na tíre seo — áit ina bhfuil for-mhór na gceantar Gaeltachta — agus caithfear barrthairbhe a bhaint as an acmhainn sin ar mhaithe le muintir na Gaeltachta.

Ní miste freisin comhráite a chur ar siúl idir an Údarás agus an Roinn Talmhaíochta d'fhonn an toradh is fearr a fháil ó scéimeanna talmhaíochta agus tograí a bhaineann le próiseáil bhia a scrúdú. B'fhéidir go bhféadfadh tograí mar sin tuilleadh fostaíochta a chur ar fáil sa Ghaeltacht. Mar thacaíocht leis na hiarrachtaí seo ní foláir clár cuimsitheach forbartha tionsclaíochta a leagan amach d'fhonn na monarchana sa Ghaeltacht atá folamh faoi láthair a líonadh.

Ní foláir cur tuilleadh leis na hiarr-achtaí eile trí phlean oibre nua do na comharchumainn Ghaeltachta a ullmhú. Beidh sé riachtanach, ár ndóigh, go mbeidh áit lárnach ag an teanga i ngníomhaíochtaí na gcomharchumann. Beidh sé tábhachtach freisin ról na gcomharchumann chomh fada agus a bhaineann le forbairt pobal a athdhear-bhú. Cheapfainn féin gur ceart dóibh bheith ag plé le gach gné de shaol an phobail agus go mbeadh ionadaíocht ó na haicmí éagsúla den phobal ar na coistí a bheadh ina mbun.

Is gá aire ar leith a thabhairt d'fhorbairt agus do chomhordú ghluaiseacht na comharaíochta sa Ghaeltacht. Beidh sé riachtanach oiliúint chuí a thabhairt do bhainisteoirí, do choistí, do chomhaltaí na gcomharchumann agus do dhaoine eile a bheidh páirteach san obair seo. Ach cur chuige i gceart ba chóir go mbeadh ar chumas na gcomharchumann iad féin a fhorbairt agus a chur ar bhonn sásúil ó thaobh airgid de.

Beidh mé féin agus mo Roinn i dteag-mháil leis na comharchumainn agus leis an Údaras faoi na cúrsaí sin uile. Táim sásta gur féidir leis na comharchumainn páirt rí-thábhachtach a ghlacadh i gcaomhnú na Gaeltachta. Cuirfidh a gcuid gníomhaíochtaí, mar aon le hath-bhreithniú leanúnach ar na himeachtaí uile faoi scáth an Údaráis, dúshraith shásúil ar fáil le leas na Gaeilge agus na Gaeltachta a chur chun cinn sna blianta atá romhainn.

Is taisce í an Ghaeilge ina gcnuasaítear ní amháin samhlaíocht fhileata mhuintir na hÉireann ach freisin a mothú spior-adálta, a ndúil sa tsaoirse, a leagan éirime agus meoin, a saíocht agus a nósanna dúchais. Dá dtarlódh, de dheasca neamh-shuime nó fuarchúise, go ligfí don teanga dul in éag ní bheadh slánú ar mhéid an chaillteanais. An mhuintir nach mbeadh ceangal acu lena sinsear agus tuiscint acu ar a ndúchas féin ní bheadh iontu ach daoine gan bun fréimhe, gan eolas ar a n-oidhreacht, gan aon ionannas so-aitheanta.

Is é leathadh agus cothú na Gaeilge an chéad chloch ar mo phaidrínse mar Aire na Gaeltachta. Is í an aidhm atá agam gach dúthracht a chaitheamh i gcomhairle le mo Roinn féin, le Bord na Gaeilge agus le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta, le gach eagraíocht agus comhlacht a bhfuil freagracht orthu i leith na Gaeilge, leis an bpobal mór, le hAirí agus leis an Rialtas féin chun úsáid na Gaeilge mar theanga labhartha a leathadh.

Bunaíodh Bord na Gaeilge d'aonghnó chun, "an Ghaeilge agus go háirithe a húsáid mar theanga bheo agus mar ghnáthmheán cumarsáide a chur chun cinn". Ní ar an mBord amháin, ar ndóigh, atá an cúram iomlán i leith cur chun cinn na Gaeilge agus sin é an fáth a leagtar an méid seo a leanas síos san Acht um Bord na Gaeilge, "D'ainneoin aon ní san alt seo, leanfaidh Roinn Stáit, nó comhlacht reachtúil nó comhlacht eile, d'aon fheidhm a chomhlíonadh i ndáil leis an nGaeilge a bhfuil an Roinn nó an comhlacht freagrach inti".

Is eagal liom nach bhfuil aon chomh-ordú iontach ann idir na hiarrachtaí éagsúla atá ar siúl ar mhaithe leis an nGaeilge ach go bhfuil na dreamanna éagsúla atá ag gabháil den obair sin ag dul a mbealach féin cuid mhaith gan beann mórán ar a bhfuil ar siúl ag dreamanna eile ná eolas beacht ar an dul chun cinn atá á dhéanamh.

Agus cúrsaí mar sin is deacair an tairbhe is fiúntaí a bhaint as na hiarrachtaí atá ar siúl ná na hacmhainní atá againn a úsáid ar an mbealach is éifeachtaí ar mhaithe leis an teanga. Ní foláir, dá bhrí sin, athbhreithniú iomlán a dhéanamh ar an obair atá ar bun, an staid mar atá faoi láthair a scrúdú go cruinn, fiúntas na n-iarrachtaí atá ar siúl a mheas, na sprioc-anna don ghearrthéarma agus don fhadtéarma a shonrú agus teacht ar na slite is fearr inar féidir iad a bhaint amach. Is dá bharr sin atá iarrtha agam ar Bhord na Gaeilge plean cuimsitheach i ndáil le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge a ullmhú, tar éis dóibh comhairle a ghlac-adh leis na húdaráis agus na heagrais iomchuí, agus an plean sin a chur os mo chomhair faoi fhómhar na bliana seo.

Nuair a bheidh an plean sin ar fáil beidh orainn na hacmhainní agus na hiarrachtaí uile a dhíriú ar aidhmeanna insroichte a mbeidh glacadh ag an bpobal leo agus comhordú a dhéanamh orthu i dtreo go mbainfear an tairbhe is fearr agus is éifeachtaí astu. Ní foláir dálaí teanga mar atá siad a aithint, na toscaí a aimsiú a thugann ar dhaoine béas teanga a athrú agus feidhm a bhaint as na bealaí agus na modhanna oibre is éifeachtaí chun an pobal a bhreith linn. I mbeagán focal caithfear beartas teanga a cheapadh agus a shocrú céard díreach atá le baint amach, cathain agus conas atá sé le baint amach.

Ní foláir conair a rianú i dtaobh na slite is fearr chun an beartas sin a fheidhmiú. Beidh réimsí oibre eagrais agus institiúdí níos tábhachtaí ná a chéile san obair seo. De bhrí go gcaithfear gníomhú le hac-mhainní teoranta, agus cúrsaí airgeadais mar atá, ní foláir na réimsí oibre is tábhachtaí a aithint agus príorachtaí a leagan amach in ord tosaíochta i dtreo go bhféadfar freastal orthu sin ar mhodh pleanáilte. Bainfear úsáid as tacaíocht shaineolach aon áit is féidir agus déanfar dul chun cinn a mheas agus beartas a leasú de réir mar is gá.

Is mithid anois tús a chur le comhrá agus le díospóireacht phoiblí faoi thodh-chaí na Gaeilge. Ní spéis liomsa caint faoi inmharthanacht na teanga mar go gcreidim go diongbháilte ní amháin go dteastaíonn ó mhuintir na hÉireann ach gurb é mian a gcroí é, go mairfeadh an teanga.

Is ró-fhada atá caint scaoilte gan éifeacht ar siúl i dtaobh na teanga: ní foláir imeacht ón dearcadh diúltach agus an díogras agus an duthracht a bhíodh chomh follasach sin tráth a athmhúscailt agus a chothú i measc an phobail i gcaoi go mbainfear amach arís don Ghaeilge an áit is dual di i saol na tíre. Is ró-fhada atáimid ag ligean do chúrsaí imeallacha eile cur isteach ar an bpríomhaidhm atá romhainn agus is ró-mhithid dúinn anois ár ndílseacht don phríomhaidhm sin a athdhearbhú agus tabhairt faoina baint amach le fonn, le faobhar agus le dúthracht.

Aithnímis gur leis an 21ú haois a bhaineann an feachtas atá ar bun againn agus nach mór dúinn tabhairt faoin obair atá romhainn leis na hacmhainní uile agus an tsaineolaíocht is fearr a bhaineann leis an aois sin.

Ar ndóigh, beimid ag súil le cabhair mhór ó na heagrais dheonacha Ghaeilge san obair atá romhainn. Tá siad thar a bheith riachtanach chun an pobal mór a mhealladh ar thaobh na Gaeilge. Tá faitíos. orm, áfach, nach bhfuil an tion-char a mbeifí ag súil leis ag na heagrais Ghaeilge sna hiarrachtaí atá ar siúl acu chun an pobal a mhealladh ar thaobh úsáid na Gaeilge.

Le dul chun cinn fiúntach a dhéanamh ní foláir cur chun oibre ar bhealach dearfach, cruthaitheach. Ní ag iarraidh daoine a chur ó dhoras atáimid ach a mhalairt ar fad agus ní bheidh fonn ar an ngnáthphobal éisteacht linn más gearáin is mó a bhíonn le cloisteáil. Is fearr mar sin an síorcháineadh a chaitheamh uainn — fiú amháin má chreidimid go bhfuil bunús maith lenár gclamhsán. Ní éireoidh linn an pobal a mhealladh i dtreo na Gaeilge, mura mbíonn taitneamh le baint as na himeachtaí a bhíonn ar siúl againn. Ba chóir dúinn a chur san áireamh chomh maith gurbh fhusa rud éigin a fháil dá mba léir go raibh líon mór daoine á lorg. Dá fheabhas é an cuspóir féin, bíonn tacaíocht an phobail mhóir thar a bheith tábhachtach chun é a bhaint amach.

Tuigimidne gurb í an Ghaeilge atá le cur chun cinn agus nach é an dátheangachas atá le cothú: ní baol don Bhéarla atá seanbhunaithe mar theanga idirnáisiúnta. Ag an am céanna is maith ann "an cúpla focal" mar thús ó dhaoine atá ar bheagán Gaeilge. Is daoine iad sin a d'fhoghlaim Gaeilge uair éigin ach a chaill a ngreim uirthi nuair nach raibh deis acu í a labhairt agus tá dualgas orain-ne spreagadh agus misneach a thabhairt dóibh. Ní foláir dúinn mar sin bheith sásta le cuid áirithe den dátheangachas mar chéim sa treo ceart ag an bpointe seo: b'fhéidir nár mhiste smaoineamh ar an mana atá ag dream amháin ar a laghad —"Gaeilge nuair is féidir; Béarla nuair is gá."

Tá athbhreithniú á dhéanamh agamsa i láthair na huaire ar na gníomhaíochtaí uile a bhfuil freagracht orm ina leith. Táim ag iarraidh ar choistí feidhmiúcháin na n-eagras a fhaigheann deontais ó mo Roinnse leis an teanga a chur chun cinn an rud céanna a dhéanamh. Ba cheart dóibh athbhreithniú uileghabhálach a dhéanamh ar gach gné dá ngníomhaíochtaí agus plean dearfach réalaíoch do na hochtóidí a réiteach a luífidh isteach leis na hiarrachtaí eile atá ar siúl: is léir go bhfuil gá le comhordú níos fearr ar na hiarrachtaí éagsúla. Ní foláir gach réimse oibre a scrúdú go grinn i dtreo go bhféadfar scéimeanna níos bríomhaire, níos éifeachtaí agus níos réalaíche a chur in áit scéimeanna a bhfuil a n-éifeachtacht ag trá nó imithe i ndísc nó nach bhfuil luach an airgid atá á chaitheamh orthu á fháil. Féachaimse ar an athbhreithniú bunúsach seo ar chúrsaí beartais mar chuid rí-thábhachtach de mo chuid oibre agus beidh mé ag súil le lánchomhoibriú ó gach eagras.

Tá dearbhaithe agamsa in áiteanna eile, agus ba mhaith liom an dearbhú sin a thabhairt arís anseo, go bhfuilimse lándáiríre agus go bhfuil an Rialtas lándáiríre ar mhaithe lenár dteanga dhúchais. Ag an am céanna tá teorainn leis an méid is féidir le haon Rialtas a dhéanamh mura léir go bhfuil tacaíocht láidir le fáil acu ón bpobal. Sin é an fáth go bhfuil béim á cur agam ar an tábhacht a bhaineann le pobal mór na hÉireann a mhealladh i dtreo na teanga i gcaoi go mbeidh siad ag dul i bhfeidhm ar an gcóras polaitíochta. Ní gnó domsa fios a gceirde a mhúineadh do na heagrais Ghaeilge ná iarracht a dhéanamh mo thuairimí pearsanta féin maidir le modhanna oibre a bhrú orthu. Ach tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach gur ón bpobal féin, le spreagadh ó na heagrais dheonacha ar ndóigh, a thiocfaidh an t-éileamh ar bhreis áiseanna agus ar bhreis aitheantais don teanga; agus, nuair a shroichfidh sé sin mo bhordsa agus tacaíocht láidir an phobail leis, ní doicheall a bheidh ansin roimhe.

Fáiltímse roimh léirmheastóireacht ach déantar í d'fhonn cabhrú linn torthaí níos fearr fós a bhaint amach agus ná bíodh sé claonta ná mailíseach: níl aon chuimse leis an dochar a d'fhéadfadh a mhalairt a dhéanamh dár n-oidhreacht agus dár dteanga.

Tá cuireadh á thabhairt agamsa anois do phobal na hÉireann, agus go háirithe don aos óg, tacaíocht don teanga Ghaeilge a athmhúscailt ina measc agus mórtas a athbheochan sa ghné is suntasaí dár n-oidhreacht. Is cuid bhunúsach dár gcultúr í — bainimis úsáid fhiúntach aisti agus cuirimis an tábhacht a ghabhann léi mar shainchomhartha an náisiúin Éireannaigh in iúl dár gcomharsana agus dár gcairde. Ach sinn a bheith ag obair as lámha a chéile níl teorainn leis an méid is féidir linn a bhaint amach: mura mbímid ag comhoibriú le chéile níl ach an teip i ndán dúinn.

Mr. J. Bermingham

I suppose people are pretty tired of hearing us talking here about the budget over a period of weeks. It becomes a bit stale and is perhaps rather irrelevant and there may be repetition but I want to make a few brief remarks. Most of the observations have already been made even in this wide-ranging debate. There are, however, a few things that I feel should be said. In his budget speech the Minister told the House that the greatest problem facing the country was unemployment. He was correct in that assessment; unemployment is our greatest problem. But when we examine the proposals which the Minister brought in, while I think he is identifying the problem correctly he is doing the opposite to resolving it. That is the history of the Fianna Fáil Party since the arrival of the present leadership a couple of Governments back but not such a long time ago. When the present Taoiseach took office he identified the problems correctly but he did not do anything about them. He failed to carry out the actions necessary to rectify those problems. That is a fair statement. There was a change of Government when perhaps an attempt was made to do something and we now come back to this budget accepting that the position is still the same and that now we shall do something about it.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. J. Bermingham

I did not interrupt the Minister and I would ask him ——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Pardon me, Deputy. Tá mé ag iarraidh ar an Aire agus ar an Teachta Alan Dukes cead do thabhairt don Teachta Bermingham leanúint ar aghaidh. Deputy Bermingham without interruption.

Mr. J. Bermingham

Fianna Fáil have been fairly good at identifying the problems but then they sit back and do nothing about it. They do not take the action necessary to solve these problems. The Minister in his opening statement on the budget said: "If we are to use the budget simply to achieve financial targets without regard to other consequences there is a risk of serious damage to the economy." I agree with that, but then he proceeds to reduce the projected deficit from what was in the original budget in January. I leave it to the public and to the Deputies and to the Chair to draw their own conclusions because he is trying to increase further the imbalance which he says is dangerous and might have serious consequences.

Mr. Dukes

He knows he is not going to get there.

Mr. Flynn

The Deputy should not interrupt.

Mr. J. Bermingham

The way he achieved that is open to question because corporation tax of £36 million was brought forward from 1983 and that meant we were only postponing the difficulties. By imposing tax at the point of entry £140 million will be raised. There are two industries in my constituency which, because of this problem, are on the verge of closure and will be closed before this budget debate is over. They have to pay out money for raw materials at the point of entry. Let no one tell me that arrangements have been made to assist them because these people have sought help from the ICC and Fóir Teoranta and no one is willing to help pay this imposition of VAT. They have to manufacture and sell the product before they get any money back. It was one of the worst measures ever to be introduced in a budget. Firms have a cash flow problem and they are unable to carry on; it is the straw that broke the camel's back. This act has done irreparable harm to a great number of small industries.

The Minister identified the problem of unemployment but did the opposite to provide it when he imposed this tariff at the point of entry for non-manufactured goods. I would like the Minister to explain how he can justify saying that he identified the problem of unemployment and then put an embargo on firms who are in trouble financially and who are now forced to pay large sums in VAT before they can get the raw materials into their factories to complete the manufacture. If that is supposed to help unemployment I do not know the meaning of the word.

He also pulled £45 million out of the air in what was called revenue buoyancy. That means you think of a figure, double it and then put it down. No one has any knowledge of what revenue buoyancy is going to be. Because of the present state of our economy, the number of firms closing down and people being added weekly to the unemployment figure, it is very hard to judge buoyancy. Anyone who mentions a figure would be dishonest. The only buoyancy that is visible under the Government is buoyancy of expenditure where it is politically wise to spend. Since the advent of this Government we have spent millions, some in the west and some in Donegal where it was necessary to keep a vote right in this House. A large proportion was spent in the Dublin inner city to copper-fasten another vote in this House. There were millions provided in Dublin West overnight but they did not bring the return the Government expected.

Sa mhéid a bhí le rá ag Fianna Fáil i rith fheachtas an toghcháin sin, ní fhaca mé mórán faoi chúrsaí na Gaeilge, cé go bhfuil cuid mhaith de mhuintir na Gaeilge agus de dhiograis-eoirí na Gaeilge i mBaile Átha Cliath Thiar. Níl a fhios agam an féidir aon tuairim a bhunú ar sin ar an méid atá á dhéanamh ag an Rialtas seo ar son na Gaeilge, ach ón méid atá ráite anseo inniu caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil Gaeilge á usáid ag an Aire.

Mr. O'Dea

I shall not delay the House with a long speech. I am sorry Deputy Bermingham did not remain for my contribution because he mentioned moneys being spent by Fianna Fáil in the most recent by-election. Neither Deputy Bermingham nor his party can take any comfort from the results of that by-election. He spoke about the Fianna Fáil Party purchasing votes, copperfastening votes, paying people for their votes and so on. Deputy Bermingham is a member of a party that sold itself over the years, indeed one which has prostituted itself to such an extent that it has now no identify.

With the indulgence of the Chair I should like to preface my remarks by one general comment. I have been a Member of this House for three months only. Before coming here I was told I would be wasting my time being involved in politics, that Dáil Éireann was merely a talking shop where very little really happened. I must confess that much of what I have seen since coming here has borne out that prediction. It must be very boring for people, such as the press and others, to sit here day after day listening to Government speaker after Government speaker repeatedly extolling the virtues of the budget and to people on the other side of the House repeatedly criticising it. Would it not be a much better thing for democracy if people felt free to come in here, within certain limits of party loyalty, and say more honestly what they felt about measures introduced in this House.

The taxation provisions of the budget must be viewed against the general economic background. It must be remembered that the Government introduced a budget at a time of an unprecedented crisis in our balance of payments situation. There was agreement on all sides of the House — and indeed acceptance by the public — that the budget deficit should be reduced, in other words, that the gap between what the Government took in in revenue and what they spent would have to be reduced. The Government have been involved in a continuing review of public expenditure. Indeed there are areas in which public expenditure can be controlled without effecting a real reduction in social services. For example, there could be more parliamentary control of public expenditure and greater use of techniques existing already for the evaluation of precise costs and benefits of any proposed public expenditure. But at the end of the day social services can be improved only by way of increased taxation. There is no other method by which it can be done. There was agreement on all sides of the House about the need to close the gap between revenue and expenditure. There was agreement also that public spending at any time in the future and certainly at present could not be cut back sufficiently to allow the Government not to increase taxation. Consequently, there was general agreement on the need for increased taxation. Increased taxation is not something neutral. The method by which x millions of pounds tax revenue can be raised can have profound social and economic consequences. Taxation is a powerful tool of economic policy and management. The method by which taxation is raised will have consequences for the lives of our people, the future development of our economy and so on.

Since there was agreement on the need to increase taxation what must be examined then is whether the methods by which this is done in the budget are socially just and equitable and economically sound. Often the attainment of social justice and equity and the achievement of some economic objective are contradictory and the only solution to be adopted is that of balancing one against the other in the best possible manner.

Turning now to the various methods of raising revenue employed in the budget the payment dates of corporation profits tax and valued-added tax have been altered and, in this way, a certain amount of revenue raised. I was surprised to hear Deputy Bermingham's contribution because, as far as I was concerned, there was no great public outcry about this. I have not read of any objections, protests or outcries about it. Therefore I must conclude that it is generally acceptable. Indeed let me say that when I first heard about it I thought it was an imaginative way of increasing revenue and certainly a more socially just and humane method of increasing revenue than some of the methods attempted in the Coalition's abortive budget.

The Minister announced also the imposition of a £20 million levy on the banks. I was glad to hear him say that that was an ad hoc, temporary measure because I do not think that the imposition of arbitrary levies of £20 million or whatever is the proper way of dealing with the taxation of profits of financial institutions. That is a very complex and difficult subject which I understand the Commission on Taxation are examining. I look forward to their recommendations in due course. Certainly an arbitrary levy of £20 million can be seen, at best, to be a short-term measure. Speaking about the banks, the point should be made also that their boards of directors and those of other financial institutions are taking decisions which have a profound impact on the lives of thousands of our people and our economy. Now is the time for the Government to examine the question of greater public control of our banks and other financial institutions. There are people who say that the best method is to try to persuade the banks to adopt measures which are socially acceptable and which advance the economic interests of the nation. No powerful persuasion, however great, is a proper substitute for being able to tell the banks exactly what the Government, who are managing the economy, want them to do in this situation. The Government will have to consider seriously the question of greater control over those insititutions whose decisions can have such a profound impact on our lives.

There are also changes announced in the capital gains tax. Those changes which first appeared in the abortive budget which was defeated in the House, have been to a large extent adopted by the present Minister for Finance. Basically, short term gains, gains made when the asset in question is purchased and sold within a three year period, are taxed at a slightly higher rate than other gains. We need to look at the history of the capital gains tax legislation to evaluate that properly. Capital gains tax was first introduced in 1976. The Finance Act of that year imposed a 26 per cent rate of tax on all capital gains irrespective of how long the asset in question was held and irrespective of the nature of the sale, whether speculative or for other reasons. There were two basic objections to that form of capital gains tax. It taxed all the gain even that part which was purely inflationary and it put the genuine businessman, the person who had built up a farm or business and worked it during his lifetime, in exactly the same position as the short term speculator because both had to bear exactly the same rate of capital gains tax.

Fianna Fáil returned to office in 1977 and the following year they introduced the Capital Gains Tax (Amendment) Act, 1978 which met both of those objections. It met the first objection of taxing inflationary gains by increasing the cost price, using 6 April 1974 as the base date, by increases in the consumer price index between 6 April 1974 and the date of sale. It sought to meet the second objection, that the genuine business person was being put in the same position as a short term speculator, by introducing tapering relief. If the asset was bought and sold within three years the rate of capital gains tax was the top rate of 30 per cent. If it was held for more than three years the rate went down until if the asset was held for more than 21 years there would not be any capital gains tax. That was a fairly crude and arbitrary method of dealing with the problem but I feel it was the best possible way of attempting to tackle that very genuine argument.

It is now proposed to get rid of the tapering relief except in one exceptional case. It could be argued that the inflation relief covers most objections. I would like the Minister to look again at the question of tapering relief particularly because the basic rate of capital gains tax has been substantially increased. There has also been a suggestion that there may be some changes in the roll-over relief for capital gains tax purposes. My experience has been that roll-over relief is only claimed in very genuine cases, that is people who for some social or economic reason have to sell a farm or a business and who re-invest the purchase price in another farm or business. I would not like to see any diminution of roll-over relief.

There will be provisions in the Finance Bill for imposing tax on company cars. There has been a great outcry about this because people feel that those proposals will be excessively penal. I believe the outcry is a bit premature. I will wait to see the exact terms of the Finance Bill in relation to company cars before I comment on the exact effect of the Minister's proposals. I ask the Minister and the civil servants who are drafting the Finance Bill to bear in mind that the proposals outlined in the budget could be drafted into the Finance Bill in such a way as to prove excessively penal or they could be incorporated in the Finance Bill in such a way as to prove perfectly acceptable. There is wide discretion there. The Minister should bear in mind the consequences for garages and for businesses generally of imposing a penalty on people who have to use company cars for genuine reasons.

The Minister announced various provisions in relation to VAT. I welcome the decision to remove VAT from clothing and footwear. Despite what Deputy J. Bermingham has said, there are very few people in my constituency who are buying fur coats for £1,000 and £2,000. I know Kildare is supposed to be a well off county but I doubt if there are many people in that county running out and paying £2,000 for fur coats. I also welcome the decision to remove VAT from books.

In Deputy Bruton's budget speech he proposed the imposition of VAT at the basic rate of 18 per cent on legal services. I am not making an argument in favour of the legal profession but the inescapable result of imposing VAT on legal services is that the extra charge is passed on to clients. We should be moving in the opposite direction and expanding the totally inadequate provisions which exist for civil legal aid rather than increasing the cost of legal services. I suggest that the revenue raised by the imposition of 18 per cent VAT on legal services should be earmarked to expand the civil legal aid system and to move it further in the direction of the Pringle recommendations on civil legal aid. The 18 per cent VAT on legal services will be passed on to clients, some of whom can ill afford to bear it. This seems to be recognised by the fact that there is to be a special VAT rate of only 3 per cent in respect of certain professional services to farmers and in respect of fees for the sale of agricultural land. That is a recognition that farmers cannot afford the high rates and I suggest that many other clients of the legal professions are in the same position.

The Minister has instructed the Commission on Taxation to bring about a situation whereby those paying tax under the PAYE system as well as those who are self-employed become one in terms of the actual year basis for taxation. The self-employed pay income tax in a year on the profits of the previous financial year. This can lead to injustice at a time of high inflation. However, I would ask the Minister to bear in mind the cash flow difficulties in which many businesses find themselves. If tax on business is to be introduced on an actual year basis, it can be either on a cash basis or on an earnings basis. In other words, people can be taxed either on the amount of their incomes or in a certain financial year on their actual earnings for that year. Bearing in mind the cash flow difficulties of many businesses, I suggest that the payment of income tax on an earnings basis in a certain year would be disastrous and would result in many businesses, both small and large, going to the wall.

There are changes being made also in respect of claiming against income for tax purposes. Interest on personal loans is to be disallowed so far as income tax concessions are concerned. I would appreciate very much the Minister considering this matter again. People do not borrow in order to avoid income tax. They borrow because their resources are insufficient to meet some pressing need.

Changes are being made also in respect of income tax allowances for mortgage repayments. My understanding is that this change is to be made in two ways. First, there is to be an upper limit of £35,000 as the capital sum in respect of which mortgage interest can be claimed. I expect that provision is designed to close the tax avoidance gap for people who avoid tax by buying large houses. I am in full agreement with that. It is just and equitable. However, there are changes also in respect of the rates of tax at which one can benefit in respect of mortgage repayments. With the narrowing of the tax bands and having regard to the inflation level, most house purchasers are now into the 45- and 50-per cent tax brackets. If somebody is paying tax at those higher rates he should, in justice and in fairness, be allowed tax relief at those higher rates he should, in justice and in fairness, be allowed tax relief at those higher rates. There is a strong economic argument involved here. The Government have proposed an injection into the building industry of £50 million in order to encourage expansion and movement in the industry. Tax relief on mortgages was introduced to help people to buy houses and also to activate the building industry. The restrictions on the rates of tax that are to apply now in this respect to some extent contradict our interest in rejuvenating the building industry. Therefore, I urge the Minister to reconsider this situation. People paying for their houses, particularly young people, are already taxed to the hilt. They cannot bear any further tax imposition. If they are to be disallowed that tax concession on mortgage repayments at the full tax rates applying to them, the resulting burden will be very great. Apparently the position is now that somebody paying income tax at the 60 per cent rate and who got loan approval for a house on 4 April will be able to claim relief on that loan at the 60 per cent rate, while somebody paying tax at the same rate but having got loan approval on 7 April will only be able to claim relief at the 25 per cent or 35 per cent rate.

Deputy Bermingham referred to unemployment as being a serious social evil. We cannot argue with him in that respect. There are no words strong enough to describe the effects of unemployment on our people and on the economy generally. Unemployment is a social cancer that is eating away at the heart of the Irish nation. At a recent economic seminar Dr. Teeling of UCD said that the good years of direct foreign investment are over, that a new policy is needed to maintain living standards and to provide employment. He went on to say that future policy will rely to a great extent on indigenous enterprise. I agree fully with those sentiments. We must bear in mind that the common agricultural policy, which has subsidised farm incomes since our entry to the EEC, is now to be drafted on the basis of farm prices reflecting the average European rate of inflation. In such circumstances it is our bad luck if our inflation rate is higher than that of the other member states.

Time is running out so far as foreign borrowing is concerned. From now on foreign borrowing must be seen to be at best a temporary expedient. Another problem facing us is that direct foreign investment in terms of people coming here and building factories and so on is on the wane. It would be a poor day for us if we were to have to rely exclusively on direct foreign investment for the creation of employment. From now on we must rely on our own resources.

Radical steps are needed if we are to solve our unemployment problem. I am not an economist, but as I see the situation there are two basic approaches open to us. One of these approaches must be used if we are to begin to solve our unemployment problem. If we are to allow private enterprise to develop the country and to solve the problem of unemployment, we must first remove the inhibitions, the restraints and the disincentives that are in the way of private enterprise. The alternative is to allow the State to create employment and to develop the economy. If we decide to do it that way — I do not have any preference — we are talking about State investment and involvement in industry on a scale which was never contemplated by Irish politicians before. The method of doing it does not make any difference to me but I want a realistic economic plan, whether based on private enterprise or State involvement, to solve the social cancer of unemployment. I look forward eagerly to the Government's plan which is expected shortly to see which of those approaches will be adopted. In my view there is no middle way.

We must judge methods of raising revenue against the various criteria such as taxation equity, social justice and the attainment of certain economic objectives. Broadly speaking — I say this without the advantage of seeing the Finance Bill — the methods adopted by the Government in the budget are correct. I earnestly hope they are correct because the future of our people depends on them.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Each year the budget debate gives us an opportunity to review our economy and, where appropriate, to praise or criticise Government policy. It also gives us an opportunity to make recommendations if we feel the Government are going off the rails. If we are to get back on the rails it is the duty of any Government, Fianna Fáil or Coalition, to consider the wise speech made in Strasbourg by the OECD Secretary-General, Mr. Van Lennep. Having read it I wondered how many such speeches are read by members of the Government. Mr. Van Lennep on that occasion said that we must continue our attack on the twin evils of inflation and unemployment, and stick to the conviction that bringing down inflation is the indispensable condition for durable increases in employment and more vigorous sustainable growth. He said that we must defend the welfare state by adapting it, not dismantling it. He also said that we must maintain an open trade and payments system and strengthen the co-operative trade and monetary arrangements needed for it to work more smoothly. Mr. Van Lennep said we must not let current market development deflect us from continued determined efforts to reduce our dependence on oil and we must be ready to respond positively to the growing importance and legitimate aspirations of the developing countries.

The OECD Secretary-General's words are as true when uttered here as they were when he was addressing the Assembly in Strasbourg. As I have often said, I am not a great believer in the products of economists. Economists, no matter how highly qualified they are — I have little doubt that we have great economists here — do not have their ears tuned into the problems that are affecting people as a result of their policies. Wealth, land, property, stocks and shares, dividends and the masses of accumulated wealth all fade into insignificance in comparison to the importance of people. I have always felt that economists are so wrapped up in their efforts to have books right, to have calculations correct and have the economic ends of all problems sparking to all plugs that they seem to forget the effects their policies may have on ordinary men, women and children. The whole basis of our existence here is to work for our men, women and children and to help give them the standard of living they are entitled to. We must work to provide them with the necessities of life and, as far as possible, the civil rights they are entitled to, work, wages, proper housing conditions, educational facilities for the children and those things which will raise the dignity of citizens as they are entitled to as human beings.

Most of our economists seem to be wrapped up in the balancing of books, and registers and that applies also to Government Ministers. They all seem to forget about the consequences their policies will have on the standard of living of our people. If they paid as much time and attention to the conditions under which people live, the conditions under which people must rear their families in the present economic climate — one of the most difficult tasks human beings are being asked to perform — they would be better able to produce worthwhile policies. We must try to persuade the economists who are offering advice to all countries that they must direct their attention away from the balancing of figures which do not mean anything to something that means everything to the lives of our people by giving them work, wages, housing conditions, educational facilities and all things that are right and proper for the full dignity of the human being.

It is no harm to express sentiments of that type on the occasion of a budget debate. We face serious economic problems because of the extraordinary evil which seems to be getting a tighter grip on our community, the evil of unemployment. At one time emigration was able to assist us in the problem of unemployment but our European partners have not advanced as much as we have in relation to the provision of work. As a result there is little prospect of emigration relieving our unemployment problem. We see abroad, particularly in Europe, what the steel industry is facing at the moment and the vast amount of unemployment in that industry. The numbers employed in the motor industry in this country fall far short of what they were some years ago.

Agriculture is our main industry and we depend upon it. Prosperous agriculture will make an outstanding contribution towards solving our unemployment problem, yet we see the manner in which Irish farmers — and in recent times European farmers also — have been treated. It is most regrettable that when farmers enter the land in the spring to sow and produce they will not know until well into the summer when the crops are up over the ground what they will receive in return. I have often said — and it is no harm to say again, because what is worth saying can never be repeated sufficiently — that no farmer in Ireland will ever be a millionaire nor will he aspire to be such, but we expect him to leave the land in the autumn a little better off than when he entered on it in the spring and with a measure of profit. In recent years the incomes of farmers have been reduced by almost 50 per cent, despite the fact that the farmers are providing food for man and beast and wheat for our flourmills. We must import a certain amount of wheat for flour but I have often wondered if there is some way in which we can accelerate the production of wheat here.

More important from the point of view of the economy and of profits, we seem to have no long-term agricultural policy. Perhaps this should be dealt with in the Vote for the Department of Agriculture, but it is a matter that affects the whole economy. We know the vast numbers who are available for employment and we agree with Deputies who talk about unemployment as a grave evil. Nevertheless, what are we doing to relieve the plight and the poor prospects of those who are unfortunate enough to be unemployed? In relation to agriculture we export cattle and the more we export the better for our balance of payments, for workers on the docks and for our shipping interests, the better for all those engaged in the export trade. When it comes to the sector dealing with our rich grasslands, the more cheese, milk products and chocolate crumb we produce the better for our dairying industry. Yet no other section of the farming community experiences such severe conditions as the milk producers who must work seven days a week, have their herds cared for and meet the ever-increasing charges of the ESB and the higher price of oil products which they must obtain, and they work from sunrise to nightfall.

A vast amount of employment could be given in putting the dairying industry and the export of cattle on a sound footing and then dealing with the whole question of our tillage farmers. Our lands here are not producing what they should produce for our economy. I feel sad and disheartened about the amount of agricultural produce being dumped into this country from abroad while our own land is quite capable of producing commodities of a quality superior to the best that can be imported. It is nothing unusual here to see potatoes from Israel and Cyprus, lettuce from Holland and Belgium and onions from abroad. Practically every vegetable that we consume at our lunch and dinner-table is coming to us from abroad. Sadder still, we could be producing much more wheat and cutting down on imports. We could step up our production of barley for the feeding of our pigs so that our farmers can again go into pig breeding on a big scale to the benefit of the bacon factories and our export of bacon.

This brings me to the unsatisfactory position of marketing abroad for our agricultural produce. We may complain at home, but even if we produce we have not the marketing organisations to compare with those of other countries engaged in agriculture, who perhaps do not depend on it to the extent that we do. It is no harm to suggest that the Minister for Finance should call a conference of those engaged in our foreign embassies and consulates to ask them to wake up in relation to Irish industry and to get us new markets. They must find markets for Irish produce because we are anxious to have our own workers employed. The means by which we can achieve that is to produce more, but there is little use in producing unless the marketing organisations are instituted. While we may be critical of the marketing set-up in relation to our own country, I feel that the marketing organisation of the EEC leaves very much to be desired.

I direct the attention of the Minister for Finance to what I feel has helped to bring about a certain degree of hardship for our people. We seemed to have better purchasing power and better value for our money prior to the introduction of decimal currency. At present anyone will tell you that £1 prior to the introduction of decimal currency could purchase a far greater amount than it has achieved since the introduction of decimal currency.

Another problem was caused by our entry to the European Monetary System. Perhaps I should not dare to comment on something I know so little about but the break with sterling has created many problems in relation to our nearest neighbours and part of our own country. We have not been compensated for the difficulties created through decimalisation of our currency and the problems we encountered by entering the EMS.

I wish to elicit some information from the Minister for Finance about the resource tax which was paid by some and not by others. If this information is not forthcoming it may be necessary to put down some parliamentary questions on the matter. I understand that efforts will not be made to collect the outstanding amounts and I wish to know whether those who have already paid this tax will have it refunded to them. The same law must apply to all and those who complied with the law by paying their tax should not suffer while others are allowed to get off scot free.

I now refer to the report of the Committee of Public Accounts which states:

The Committee will await the detailed information sought by it regarding the collection of health contributions by the Health Boards as well as information on the progress being made by the working party.

Some people seem to pay health contributions while others do not. If they are not obliged to pay they are entitled to medical cards and the amount outstanding should not appear under the heading of "Defaulters". This matter must be examined.

The report goes on to state:

The Committee is disappointed to learn of the slow rate of progress in dealing with outstanding wealth tax cases. It notes that in the period 1 May 1979 to 31 December 1979 returns were received in only 170 cases out of 2,200 cases in which such returns were due and that, at 31 December 1979, tax still remained to be assessed in 2,100 cases.

It is time to clear up this problem.

The report further states:

Having regard to the considerable sums due from the United Nations over a protracted period, the Committee asks whether consideration has been given to the making of a request to that organisation to make regular payments on account pending the submission of claims in respect of the expenditure actually incurred.

I understand that very great sums are still outstanding from the United Nations. Is the whole machinery so complicated that we cannot make our demand to the UN based on the number of men who are serving with such distinction? This House should not be prepared to tolerate a situation which is, in effect, the subject of a reprimand by the Committee of Public Accounts. No other country can supply a soldier of the calibre, courage, integrity and dedication to the cause of peace as the Irish soldier. The Minister, in consultation with the Minister for Defence, should see that steps are taken immediately to secure outstanding moneys from the United Nations.

The Minister for Finance should examine the possibility of a campaign or a crusade to encourage people to work but for such an undertaking to succeed the necessary work must be available, as well as the money to pay them. A man earning £85 per week who becomes redundant will receive an income of £118 per week for the first six months of unemployment. During that period he will be entitled to unemployment benefit as well as pay-related redundancy money. It does not make sense that a man working hard to provide his family with the basic necessities and to educate his children can earn £85 while in employment but £118 for the first six months of redundancy. After six months the pay-related benefits are cut off and the standard of living of such people consequently falls, even though they may be unemployed through no fault of their own. People in my own constituency have serious problems in relation to long-term unemployment because of the drastic cut in their living standards when the pay-related benefits are cut off. This is a sad state of affairs. Our wages are far below European standards. We are expected to fall into line with everything European except the rate of wages for our workers and administrative staffs. These problems will have to be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

Our agricultural policy has led us to the situation where we import vegetables and potatoes but it was the last straw to learn that briquettes were being imported from Germany. We have some of the best boglands in the world, we have many skilled workers who are unemployed and it does not make sense to import that type of fuel. We have thousands of acres of virgin bogland but a slane or a machine has never been put to work on them. Our briquette factories could be given more work; in fact, we need at least three additional such factories. Instead of importing briquettes from Germany we should realise there is an export market for our product. The amount of Irish briquettes going to the North of Ireland is unbelievable. The demand exists there and from abroad for the Irish product.

We have been asked to cut down on our dependence on oil. We should spend more money on the development of our bogs. The first job that has to be done in relation to the vast acreage of virgin bogs is to build roads and carry out the necessary drainage works. This would give useful work to the many people who are unemployed. It would also help to boost our production of briquettes and the manufacture of peat moss. Our bogs are a valuable source of energy and they have been praised by visitors and by turf development experts from Russia and other parts of the world.

Here I wish to pay tribute to all those who were associated with Bord na Móna in the early days of the organisation. I contributed in the debate on the first Bill introduced here to establish the board. I remember people such as the late Mr. O'Kelly who did much work to help the old Turf Development Board, the parent of Bord na Móna. As it happened, my constituency was one of the areas where Mr. O'Kelly and other enthusiastic and dedicated people undertook development work. The first pilot scheme was started at Turraun in County Offaly. I visited that scheme years before I become a Member of this House because having come from an area where there were many acres of bog I was interested in the project. Thanks to the efforts of Mr. O'Kelly and the promoters of turf development, new hope and life was given to an area where prospects had been very gloomy.

With the ESB, Bord na Móna are our most useful organisation. We can never pay sufficient tribute to the pioneers in the work of bog development and also to those who did valuable work in the early days of the ESB. Our bogs are a natural source of energy and we should not forget that. Many of them are still untapped, not because of lack of expertise but because of lack of finance. Bord na Móna have been prevented from utilising this natural resource to the full. I have always considered that local authorities should have played an important role with Bord na Móna in relation to work on bog roads and drainage and in the development of bogs that would be too small for Bord na Móna to utilise.

It is true that from time to time weather conditions prevent Bord na Móna from reaching their production targets: I suppose the same situation exists for farmers. In a time of high unemployment the obvious thing to do is to create conditions to increase turf production. The Secretary-General of the OECD has advised European countries to cut down on their dependence on oil. We should consider seriously the provision of at least two additional coal-burning power stations. Here I wish to refer to the area of Castlecomer, County Kilkenny, to Killeshin, Newtown, Crettyard and the Wolfhill area of my constituency. Under the earth in these areas there is some of Europe's best anthracite and best coal deposits. It is very hard to see how more difficult areas in Poland can be developed in regard to producing coal. The same applies to other European countries, not counting the anthracite and coal mines in the UK. It is an area that could contribute most generously to the cutting down of our oil imports. A coal burning station could utilise the products of anthracite and coal from the Crettyard and Castlecomer areas on the borders of Laois, Kilkenny and Carlow. I hope that eventually some enthusiastic people will embark on these projects.

If we are to deal with the problem of unemployment we must consider small industrial firms. I want to pay tribute to the IDA for their great contribution. But even their best efforts are unable to overtake the number of school leavers each year and the number of people already on the job market. We are only scratching the surface. Something will have to be done to deal with the financial position of small firms because they can make an important contribution. We should set up a small business agency which would be in a position to administer grants for equipment, research development, group marketing and training for small firms. We lose sight of the importance of small firms. If we had enough small firms in several areas they would yield a greater return than one big firm in one large area. We must continue to co-ordinate specialist services and implement policies which will achieve the Government's job creation targets. There is an immense amount of work to be done in this area.

I do not know what examination the Department of Finance have given to the whole question of recycling. We should be able to exercise economies and at the same time provide employment by recycling certain types of material. We hear very little about recycling and this whole question should be examined to see what can be done in the interests of our economy and of providing employment. The Minister for Finance will agree with me that it is a waste of time awaiting for money to develop and provide employment because we are never going to have it in great quantity. I have seen 39 budgets in this House and on only one occasion did the books balance. That was in the late fifties or early sixties. Every Minister for Finance seems to have the one programme of cutting down, pruning, contributing to the worsening of the economy by not making sufficient money available for development. It is no harm to refer to the Tuam beet factory since the Minister referred to it. It would take £2.5 million to keep this factory open. I never agreed at any time that this factory should close down for the sake of £2.5 million because it costs several million pounds to subsidise Dublin transport. If we were to talk seriously about cutting down and stopping everything that does not pay we would put a stop to public transport and bring everything in Dublin to a standstill. Let me tell this House that practically nothing pays in this country. If we were to take the same dismal view of everything in Ireland that is not paying and put an end to it or close it down, the country would be at a standstill in 24 hours. Is it not better to pay £2.5 million to provide work in the Tuam area rather than paying out millions for redundancy and other benefits? Is it not better to see the funds going for some kind of productive work? I cannot understand why there is not some major campaign in that area to encourage, even to a small degree, a little more patriotism on the part of those who supply beet to the factory. Sugar is essential and once the beet factory was set up in Tuam it should have been kept there. But because it was running at a loss the Government said it did not make sense to keep it open. It does not make sense to pay vast sums in dole and unemployment and redundancy money rather than pay the bulk sum for something more productive by keeping the factory going.

I welcome the abolition of VAT on books. I have always believed that tax should not be put on anything used to acquire knowledge. The book trade was at its lowest ebb because of the very high VAT on books and, no matter how great a love people had for reading, they could not afford to buy books. I hope the Minister will now do something about the VAT on newspapers, particularly provincial newspapers. This VAT too, should be abolished. In many rural homes the only reading material they get is their local weekly newspaper. In Kerry it might be The Kerryman, in Sligo the Sligo Champion and in Limerick the Limerick Leader. In my constituency we have the Nationalist and Leinster Times, the Midland Tribune, the Leinster Express, the Offaly Independent, the Midland Topic, the Leinster Leader and the Kilkenny People. People who cannot afford to buy books buy provincial newspapers, their only reading material. For a long time newspaper editors and managements have been pressing for VAT on newspapers to be removed. We should encourage a greater love for reading among our young people. I ask the Minister to examine ways and means to take the removal of VAT a step further next January by giving relief to the provincial newspapers.

I have dealt with fuel, energy, coal production and the development of our bogs and I now call for a greater investment in agriculture. Do not tinker with agriculture. The time has come when farmers — not only Irish farmers but European farmers as well — will not take any more nonsense. Let us have a sound and courageous five-year development programme to put the farmers into the same position they were in in 1976 and 1977, and maybe even help them make greater profits than they did then. At present their incomes are down 50 per cent. We should help them to produce more, to increase their stocks, which will help our meat factories, and we should encourage more people to work so that we will have fewer on our unemployment queues.

What is the position on tax evasion and tax avoidance? I wonder if the Minister for Finance has read the document presented at the Strasbourg colloquoy on this subject. Tax evasion is an offence but tax avoidance is when a taxpayer goes to the experts for tax advice. I hope the Department will be able to take some action in this area.

I am glad the building industry is to receive special attention. We need more houses and more maisonettes for our old people. If there is a decline in the building industry almost everything else comes to a standstill — builders providers, tradesmen, skilled workers, craftsmen and labourers are held up. Every Member should do his best to get the building industry moving again because we must provide schools, hospitals, houses and rural cottages and we must provide maisonettes for our old people.

In this budget Knock Airport was mentioned. A good deal has been said for and against it, but there is no reason why any of us should be knockers. Let us wish the project well. We should encourage it because it will be of very great assistance to Connacht.

I was a Member of this House at the time of the Shannon Airport development, and heard the suggestion made during the speeches at the time that Shannon Airport would be only a run for rabbits. At that stage there was no question of industrial development in the area. Shannon now has its own progressive industrial estate, with an international airport and now with its own local authority. I delighted many years ago in visiting Shannon and watching the progress made by people anxious for the development of the area. There were people in this House at that time who could see no useful purpose whatsoever in any development in the district around Shannon.

I hope that the day will come when, side by side with the development of Knock Airport, there will also be industrial development. This airport will not be used only to bring people to pray. At Frankfurt Airport industrial estates have been built up and similarly at Orly Airport in Paris and Charles de Gaulle Airport. When an airport has frequent services industrialists are anxious to build industrial estates nearby which will give employment to local workers. I hope the Knock project succeeds and wish it well. I think I am on record in this House, as a very young man, as wishing Shannon Airport well on its commencement and am glad that I lived to see its industrial development and its own local authority being formed.

My time is almost up, which prevents me from speaking further on the budget. I ask the Minister to get down to industrial development, to granting tax facilities, to inviting here the Japanese, American, Canadian, German and French companies who are anxious to establish industries. Above all, he should pay special care and attention to the textile industry, with which my constituency is so closely connected — in particular my own native town Mountmellick, but also Tullamore, Rathdowney and the other areas traditionally connected with that industry. I hope every effort will be made to encourage this industry.

Finally, whatever economies must be made, let us be very careful about economising on health services. Let us give the health boards the required financial assistance to run the health services well, to give comfort to the aged and the sick. Let us play our part in contributing to cancer research. When the Minister for Health brings in his Estimate, I hope to be in a position to say something in relation to preventive measures against cancer, for which health service money should not be refused. We should play our part, as other countries do, in investing as much as possible in research to bring down our high death rate from this disease.

I would like to have said much more. I have been speaking for an hour and have only scratched the surface and had only commenced to get down to the nitty-gritty of what should be done. I will write to the Minister in more lengthy detail and am sure he will have sufficient manpower in his Department to attend to my letter. Although he is so busy, I hope that he will read my recommendations. Our big task is the creation of new jobs. In this way we will give our people an improved standard of living.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport and at the Department of Posts and Telegraphs (Mr. Leyden)

Firstly, I wish to say how interesting was the contribution by the father of the House, my colleague, Deputy Flanagan. It is always refreshing to hear him speak in any debate. As the senior Member of this House, his contributions are always open and fresh. For a man of his experience and length of service he is open-minded on the whole economy. I liked his views on many aspects and the Minister, Deputy MacSharry, will bear in mind many of the points raised by him in this debate. I am also heartened by Deputy Flanagan's political hopefulness in supporting the schemes which we as a Government are supporting, particularly the Knock Airport project which the Deputy has so openly and warmly welcomed. He sees the potential there, as we do. I compliment him on that and on his support for the Tuam sugar factory, in support of which he came out quite openly and publicly when his colleagues were not as enthusiastic as they should have been.

I come now to my main responsibility and need make no apology to this House if I come back again in this budget debate to the whole area of communications — transport and posts and telegraphs — and to their importance in this year's budget.

Dealing firstly with transport, as an industry it is never stagnant. It constantly changes in response to changing patterns of demand, to changes in technology and to changes in land use. Sometimes these changes bring about an accelerated change in the development of the industry. Things like the construction of a new road, a switch from diesel power to electrification, or the building of an airport introduce far-reaching changes in the way people travel. But transport investments not only facilitate movement; they also occupy space and land and they affect the characteristics of this land. Accordingly, transport investment should be accompanied by an awareness of the irreversible impact which it can have on any part of the country. This year the impact of transport investment on the face of this country will be substantial and visible.

The Government, recognising the importance of transport in the future growth and development of the Irish economy has this year, through the Public Capital Programme, made the largest ever capital investment in transport, £113 million. Many of these investments serve directly to encourage the growth of trade. Investment in ports, harbours and airports and in the shipping companies and air companies provides the basic infrastructure without which trade cannot develop, let alone flourish. Side by side with this, investment in the internal transport system will bring about a more efficient system which will facilitate economic growth and enhance the competitiveness of our industry.

The amount of resources required to operate the Irish transport system is quite significant. The report on transport policy by the National Economic and Social Council estimated that in 1977 current and capital resources consumed by the transport sector amounted to some 16 per cent of national output. Transport is thus clearly one of the most important components of the whole Irish economy and the efficiency with which these resources are used is of paramount importance.

The high level of investment in CIE in the current year is a reflection of the value that the Government places on CIE's role in the development of the infrastructure of our economy. Completion of CIE's capital investment projects, for which £55 million is being set aside this year, will greatly enhance our transport system. While a large part of the capital allocation will be spent on the Howth/Bray electrification project, provision has also been made for the acquisition of new carriages for CIE's mainline rail services. Preparations for the assembly of the new carriages are proceeding and the first of the new carriages will be available in late 1983. The new rolling stock will enable CIE to provide modern air-conditioned carriages at some level throughout the mainline system. Improvement in the comfort and efficiency of both urban and inter-city services will serve to promote a climate of confidence among the general public which will allow CIE to demonstrate their ability to provide an efficient, reliable transport system which is essential for industrial prosperity.

In that regard I must say that in the area I know best in relation to CIE activity, there is a need for a great improvement in the carriages on the western line. I believe this aspect has been neglected, in a sense, over the years. I hope the new investment programme will provide the carriages for this service not only in the west but throughout the country. Unless we have a quality service, we will not have customers. I know CIE are aware of that, but they require the finance we are making available. I hope the new carriages will be available in 1983, as I said already.

CIE as a national transport company are charged with providing a reasonable, accessible service to the greatest number of users. They combine a social with an economic role, but they cannot do this without recourse to the Exchequer for assistance. Mobility is a very desirable requirement of our society and it should be available to those who by reason of choice, or economic situation or physical isolation, cannot enjoy their own private transport. It must be recognised that the provision of nation-wide services involves operating uneconomic routes. No private company would be prepared to undertake this burden in today's competitive world. The role is entrusted to CIE.

For some elements of identifiable social services such as school transport and free travel for social welfare groups, CIE are directly compensated by the State for services provided, apart from the subsidy they receive to meet their operating deficit. Other social elements are not so easily identifiable such as the benefits we reap from maintaining communications, dispersing employment and income, contributing to well-being in provincial and rural communities and diminishing the sense of isolation.

It is true that the amount of Exchequer subvention has been growing rapidly in recent years and the amount provided for the current year is £96 million. It is, of course, necessary to take all practicable steps to ensure that services are being provided as efficiently as possible and that the taxpayer is getting good value for money. What I think is needed is a greater clarification of CIE's role and to the extent to which their activities should be supported by the Exchequer.

It is recognised that a continuing subsidy will be necessary to meet the costs associated with the operation and maintenance at satisfactory levels of the service. The Government in considering future policy in this area will, of course, be alert to the fact that operating costs in the case of many services will far outstrip the financial return from the provision of such services. The Government therefore will have to ensure that a balance is struck between the need for such services and the cost of providing them.

Future transport policy will take congnisance of the needs of the country as a whole. The Government recognise the important contribution which public transport makes to economic and social progress. Transport involves an amalgam of many thousands of individual decisions, ranging from the commuter deciding to travel by a certain train to the shipping company deciding to purchase a new vessel. Such decisions are made in relation to all transport modes, rail, road, shipping and air transport services.

The decisions made in one mode have a bearing on what happens in the other modes. For example, the development of a roads programme has an effect on the railways. No mode can be considered in isolation. A framework must be created within which the overall needs of the economy can be met and which will allow individuals and/or organisations to make efficient transport decisions. In this context it is appropriate to refer to the fact that work is going ahead on the preparation of a National Economic Plan. This will be published in the near future, as the Taoiseach has intimated, and will lay down guidelines for decisions over the next few years.

The plan will, inter alia, assess future transport programmes against projected needs thus aiming to provide the best possible climate for the development of economic and social stability. The co-ordination of public transport by all the relevant agencies will be closely integrated within the National Economic Plan because transport is too vital an issue to be allowed to evolve in a haphazard and unco-ordinated manner.

While the Government recognise the necessity for significant capital investment in the public transport system, the many competing demands on the Exchequer for scarce capital resources impose the restriction that the development must take place on a phased basis. A proper sense of priorities for capital investment must be established, and resources concentrated on those projects which will yield a worthwhile return. This does not mean that social investment projects will be neglected, but a greater assessment of the real needs of such projects must be undertaken within the context of the limited capacity of the Exchequer.

I think I am correct in saying that there are now good reasons for expecting inflation to move downwards as the year advances. First of all, inflation in the other European industrial countries is coming down. It is expected to fall to single figures this year in the UK and this fall should be reflected in our inflation figures. Secondly, the rate of increase in domestic wholesale prices is easing, the February figures revealing a rise of less than 1 per cent.

These factors together with the facts of internal competition will, I believe, be reflected in the next set of consumer prices that will be collected and, accordingly, we will see a downward trend in the level of inflation later in the year. Thus one of the more important objectives of the budget will be seen to be achieved.

Turning to my other portfolio and responsibility — that of Posts and Telegraphs — I should like now to deal with developments in that Department. With the prime objective of reducing inflation in mind, policy must be geared to creating and fostering conditions in which investment and the production of wealth can flourish. Investment, in general must be productive if it is to be of benefit in meeting the twin goals of reducing inflation and increasing employment. Not all investment can, however, be directly productive. Quite an amount of it must be a means to an end.

Into this category falls infrastructural investment, by which I mean investment in common services such as roads, telecommunications and sanitary services. Investment in these services is justifiable, not on the basis that it is necessarily productive in itself, for it plainly is not, but on the basis that these services must be of a quality which will facilitate such investment.

Naturally, as Minister of State at the Department of Posts and Telegraphs I am anxious that the telecommunications service should get an adequate share of available investment funds. Consequently, it is gratifying to note that all parties are agreed on the need to upgrade our telecommunications service and that the allocation of substantial funds to that end has transcended the changing faces of Government in recent years. We may differ in regard to the amounts that should be made available and the pace at which the upgrading of the services should take place, but these are differences of emphasis rather than of principle.

I will not detain the House with detailed comments on the telecommunications development programme. The Minister, Deputy Wilson, set out the present position and charted the course ahead in his contribution to this debate on 29 April. I would like, however, to focus on a number of points bearing on the operations of the Department which have some impact on the effectiveness of the investment being made and on the return obtained from that investment.

My Department are acutely conscious of the difficulties which arise through inadequate channels of information and communication to our customers and to the public in general. If these were improved, there would be a greater awareness of the progress being made in developing our communications system, more confidence in our ability to build a first-class modern network, and more understanding of our difficulties at this interim stage of development. There would be a consequent reduction in criticism which surfaces regularly in the media and elsewhere at present, criticism which, however well-intended, is damaging to the operation of the service.

Deputies, too, will be well aware of the number of times they are approached by constituents seeking information about telephone matters. The need to keep the Department's customers informed about developments affecting them and, in particular, letting applicants for telephones know when they may expect to get service is fully accepted. However, at this midway stage in our development programme a choice has to be made on where effort is to be concentrated.

To deal with inquiries from Deputies and others in regard to when telephone service can be given in individual cases involves allocating staff to that work, staff, both engineering and clerical, who would otherwise be engaged in providing service. If staff are employed in answering inquiries, they cannot be providing service, and the more inquiries, representations and Dáil questions that are received, the more effort must be put into answering them and the less time will be available for doing the work about which the inquiries, and so on, have been made.

In parallel with this there is, understandably and quite properly, pressure to reduce the numbers in the public service generally, including the Post Office, in order to reduce the level of taxation and to create a more favourable investment climate. But it is self-evident that devoting more and more time to answering inquiries or representations and Dáil questions about the provision of telephone service, meeting the maximum number of applications, and reducing the number of staff are mutually incompatible. One or more has to be a loser. This is an area where a positive contribution can be made by Deputies and it is in this context I am raising the matter.

As I said earlier the right of applicants to information about when they can expect to get service is fully accepted and what has to be done is to plan so that the required information will become available as a by-product of the planning and programming process for meeting applications. That is being arranged but it will take up to six months before the information becomes available in that way in areas outside Dublin and somewhat longer in the Dublin area. When that is done, applicants can be informed, as a matter of course, when service will be provided and the need for inquiries and representations will be largely eliminated. Obviously, the more telephones that are installed and the more the waiting list is reduced, the fewer the inquiries that will be necessary. What is needed therefore is a breathing space within which the Department can concentrate resources as far as possible on providing service until the flow of information in regard to when telephones can be provided in particular instances becomes available as a matter of routine and when very little special effort will be involved in providing it.

There is, rightly, pressure to reduce public spending in an effort to ease our budgetary and inflationary problems. Employing the extra staff that would be needed to provide the type of information required would not, in my view, be warranted. If we are serious in our approach to controlling public expenditure, we have to accept that some sacrifices must be made. I am appealing, therefore, to Deputies in the interests of the telephone service and as a contribution to helping the economy to refrain from making the number of representations that may sometimes be unnecessary and asking so many Dáil Questions about fairly routine matters. I realise and appreciate that Deputies are concerned about delays and in many cases feel forced or tempted to put down Dáil Questions. This is their democratic right and as elected Members I can see their point of view. But it causes considerable difficulty to provide this information and occupies many officials who would otherwise be engaged in worthwhile work in providing services. I do not know if one of the Deputies at fault is here at present, Deputy Mitchell, but he is a good hand at Questions. I have no objection to this — indeed I admire his work as a Deputy — but he must realise that this puts a tremendous strain on the Department.

Mrs. Fennell

On a point of order, in regard to the Minister's remarks about Questions, these Questions are essential because there seems to be a standard reply going out to all Deputies whatever the query. They all say the same thing. I think it is a print-off. They do not really give the information sought. Perhaps that is one reason why there are so many questions.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order. You may deal with that matter when you are making your own contribution later. I ask the Minister not to provoke, invite or encourage questions from the other side of the House.

Mr. Leyden

I shall try to comply with the wishes of the Chair but Deputy Fennell has made an interesting point. I would not regard the replies as standardised to the extent of being sent out without any investigation. Quite an amount of investigation takes place in order to obtain a reply. But the Deputy will appreciate that the vast amount of correspondence coming in has created difficulty. I shall do my best to ensure that Deputies get the information required. If staff have to be employed for that purpose, so be it, but I want to make the point that there is difficulty in obtaining the information and it costs money. If Deputies insist, the information must be supplied. As a Deputy myself I appreciate very much the frustration felt by Deputies in sometimes getting a reply from the Department and not being satisfied on behalf of constituents. My ambition is to ensure that we carry on with our programme so as to reach the stage of eliminating a waiting list for telephones and services. In turn, that will eliminate the need for Deputies to put down questions and pursue individual applications to the extent that has to be done at the moment.

It is not surprising that people who cannot get a telephone when they want it become dissatisfied. Such frustrations are understandable and the only fully satisfactory way of dealing with them is to upgrade the entire network to acceptable standards as quickly as that can be done and, in the meantime, to keep the public informed in a general way that the Department is keenly aware of their problems and is pushing on with its task of meeting their needs fully. Much is being done to achieve this but there is leeway to be made up.

Recognising the need for keeping applicants and existing subscribers fully informed, my Department embarked on the issue of a series of county information leaflets go give information on the present state of the telecommunications services in each county and the plans to improve them. Leaflets have already been prepared for counties Clare, Limerick, Longford and Westmeath and these are available at post offices in each county and local telecommunications commercial offices. I would like to see many people in these counties — especially anyone who might be experiencing difficulty with the telephone service — read their county leaflet and view their own problem against the information contained in it. It will answer at least some of their questions. Leaflets for other counties will be produced as quickly as that can be done until each county is covered.

Direct dialling to all areas of Northern Ireland will be introduced shortly and a leaflet will be published informing the public how to use the service. It was the practice in the past to introduce new services almost unobtrusively, and simply to include a reference to the service in the preface to the next telephone directory. It is an indication of our present awareness of the need for public information that such leaflets are now prepared and that new services are announced through modest information campaigns in the media.

Other leaflets will be produced to meet particular needs. For example, the international dialling service has expanded greatly since an information leaflet was last issued. A new dialling booklet will be issued in the autumn to give updated information on this service.

In relation to direct dialling to Northern Ireland, this is something that should be recognised. We are improving communication between North and South. I consider this to be a great contribution to the future of the country when people in both parts can have direct communication with each other, and that is coming to reality very shortly.

There has been criticism lately of the telephone billing system. Perhaps this could have been avoided if the public were better informed on how their telephone bills are prepared. As a first step, a new format of bill has been introduced recently and it is planned to issue an explanatory leaflet on the billing system shortly. It is a fact that criticism, whether well founded or not, can have a snowball effect damaging the customers' confidence and the Department's credibility as well as eroding staff morale. It is important in the interests of efficiency that this type of situation is avoided.

On the question of bills any complaint lodged is fully examined in the Department. I appreciate the frustration felt by individuals who receive bills they feel are incorrect. The Department investigate those and usually come up with a satisfactory response.

I referred earlier to the need for investment in our infrastructure, including telecommunications, as a necessary step in creating more employment. The investment in the telephone service, however, makes a direct contribution to the economy as well as an indirect one.

As part of the development of the telephone service over 500 new buildings or extensions to existing buildings have to be provided, costing well over £100 million. These projects range over the entire telecommunications service — trunk and subscriber exchanges, engineering headquarters, stores depots and so on — and have provided and are continuing to provide direct employment for a few thousand workers in the building industry as well as in the industries that service it.

To date, some 300 buildings have been completed, another 125 are in progress and a further 100 are planned. A programme of this magnitude is clearly making a significant contribution to the national economy as the construction industry has a relatively low import content and is an important source of employment. The quality of the buildings will provide excellent accommodation for our staff. I am delighted with the programme that is underway and, as Minister of State, I am ensuring that it is kept on target.

Due to the current financial constraints only a very limited building development programme has been possible on the postal side. Amongst the projects are the following: 1. Completion of the new post office at Mullingar is expected in the spring of next year. 2. Later on this year, the new post office at Shannon will be ready. 3. Fitting out of the new postmen's delivery office at Tallaght is to commence shortly and it should be ready for occupation next autumn. 4. Adaptations of a new delivery office at Clondalkin will commence later this year and that building should be ready early in 1983.

My Department have taken positive steps to stimulate greater interest in Irish stamps. The development of their philatelic service has been very satisfactory in recent years and we are developing this service. We obtain something like £1 million per annum in sales to collectors. There has been an increase in the number of special and commemorative stamps issued each year and the range of subjects and variety of attractive designs are meeting with favourable comment at home and abroad. Despite the world economic recession, philatelic sales are currently being maintained at around £1 million per annum. The appointment of philatelic agents in our principal markets abroad has added considerably to the revenue from philatelic sales and an upturn in marketing trends is expected as the world economic recession subsides.

Efforts are also being made to stimulate interest in stamp collecting at home and particular attention is being paid to cultivating the hobby among young people. To this effect my Department, in co-operation with the Federation of Irish Philatelic Societies, have embarked on a series of lectures in selected schools throughout the country. The use of post offices as natural outlets for the promotion and sale of stamps is being fully explored and my Department have already taken steps to advertise and display their philatelic services at these offices. The further penetration of world markets is also receiving attention.

The Department employ about 31,000 staff on their telecommunications and postal work and this year will have a wages bill in excess of £260 million. Although the bulk of the staff are employed on the telecommunications side, postal operations are more labour intensive. In recent years, however, great strides have been made, on the postal side, in the motorisation of rural posts and wages costs have been reduced as a result.

With the expansion of the telecommunications service and the increasing connection rates it has been necessary to make provision this year for some 700 additional jobs in order to keep pace with the five-year telephone development programme. Without this intake of staff the automation programme and our connection targets would suffer unduly. In fact, this recruitment will, in the longer term, speed up the reduction in wages costs anticipated for the years to come as telephone exchanges are converted to automatic working and the need for telephone operators decreases. However, I must also say that, in line with the Government's objective of controlling the growth of staff numbers in the public sector generally, every effort is being made to achieve this objective, so far as my Department are concerned, by increased efficiency at all levels of our operations.

To smooth the way for the new semi-State boards provision has been made for a number of consultancy studies this year, many of which are at present in progress. It is hoped that this will lessen the burden on the new boards when legislation is introduced shortly.

With regard to the transfer from State to semi-State boards, An Bord Post and Bord Telecom Éireann, I should like to appeal to the unions and staff to co-operate fully with this transfer. I believe it is a great opportunity for all the staff to participate in this great historic change from State to semi-State employment. There are exciting opportunities ahead and, under the experienced new management of both boards, the staff will be protected and will have greater opportunities in the semi-State capacity.

I mentioned earlier that the Department's building programme is making a significant contribution to the national economy as the construction industry has a low import content. Additionally, as a means of generating employment, special emphasis is again being given to the need to `Buy Irish'. So far as the Department are concerned, I can say that, subject to a competitive price being quoted, contracts are placed to the maximum extent possible with firms who are in a position to provide goods made here at home. In an effort to encourage the manufacture at home of imported stores used in the telephone development programme Deputy Reynolds, when Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, arranged a display of some of the main items that are imported at a number of centres throughout the country. That display attracted quite an amount of interest and I understand was responsible for the production at home of a number of items that, up to then, had been imported. I believe there is further scope for displays of this kind and I propose, therefore, in consultation with the Irish Goods Council, to mount displays of imported telephone stores at a number of centres throughout the country over the next year.

As Minister of State, I take particular interest in this area because it is in the national interest to reduce to a minimum the amount of imported materials and goods for our Department. I hope this programme, in consultation with the Irish Goods Council, will commence in the near future and attract interest among small manufacturers who would be in a position to provide these goods at a competitive price and, as a result, provide employment in many areas.

I see great opportunities for development in Transport and Posts and Telegraphs and I hope legislation will be passed in this session to bring into effect the changes from our Department to the semi-State boards. This will have tremendous potential for all involved and will allow for the full development and implementation of our programmes over the next few years.

Mrs. Fennell

I should like to ask the Minister why telephone directories this year have not been delivered. Maybe a statement has been made or some information given that I may have missed but I hope urgent consideration will be given to this matter because, naturally, an out of date telephone directory can cause havoc and unnecessary problems both to business firms and to private subscribers.

Speaking on this debate after my colleague, Deputy Oliver J. Flanagan, I always wonder at his capacity to expand and diverge in so many areas. As a Deputy who is only coming up to her first anniversary in the Dáil this is something I look forward to doing in the next 25 years.

It is right and proper for me to focus attention on a specific group, the young children whose interests we tend not to debate in this House, the children who are being catered for in our pre-school play groups. In the past year the people who have been involved in these play groups have seen their fortunes shine and then fade.

First, perhaps, I should give some of the background while I am drawing the attention of the Minister for Finance to the need for spending in this area. The pre-school training movement began about 15 years ago. It was mainly initiated by individual mothers in response to a need. It has grown enormously and we now have pre-school training. The term covers various types of projects. There has been an enormous growth in the original structure in the form of private play groups, different women in suburban areas opening their homes to ten or 12 children and charging for them. Because of the training of those in charge of these projects, this has proved to be an invaluable and important service.

We also have the community playgroups, which are co-operatives, community efforts in church halls, school halls, scout halls used within local communities for local children. That movement has been particularly successful in areas such as Ballymun which has a thriving pre-school training group association organised by the local women.

In the debate on financing the pre-school playgroup movement it has been said quite easily that we now have the early school starting age of four years back again and, "Why do you want to have any education for children younger than that"? The implication behind that argument often is to ask what those mothers are doing, because their traditional natural role is to look after their children. It is not a widespread accusation, but it is there. It implies that the playgroup movement is a sort of child-minding service, an easy way out for mothers so they can go off to town to drink coffee, or go back to bed or something, things which anxious mothers should not be doing. That is sad because I have seen the advantage to mothers of having their children in playgroups. It has resulted in the broadening of the children's minds. The movement is child-centred and we must always look at it from the point of view of benefiting the children. It is well known that children in the three to five age group discover and learn by exploring and adjusting socially through attending pre-school playgroups, of course under the guidance of responsible personnel who are properly trained on the needs of pre-school children.

In our financing arrangements we must think first of the children. In the January budget the Minister for Finance gave a commitment to spend £1.6 million in the following year on the various playgroup projects. They include groups organised through the health boards, the Irish Pre-School Playgroups Association and other playgroups that do not come to mind immediately because they are not so well known. Unfortunately these projects did not figure in the March budget. Since then there have been various commitments and promises to give finance to specific groups. There is a lot of trepidation and uncertainty among the personnel who organise and operate these groups.

I am asking the Minister for Finance to appreciate the importance of the work being done by the people who initiated this form of early education. They have been ploughing on through the years with little money outside their own private resources. I ask the Minister to fund them now in a proper way. I admit that even the £1.6 million allocated by the Coalition would only have scratched the surface. The important thing to remember is that the pre-school playgroup movement do not want to be completely bank-rolled. There is enormus input by the mothers in this movement and others who help to operate the private pre-school playgroups. They do not want to be covered totally by Government handouts. For instance, the mothers in the Ballymun pre-school playgroup organise sales of work, sponsored walks and so on in order to be able to provide the essential insurance for the group.

I want the Minister for Finance to let the various groups know exactly what they can hope to be given in the coming year to help them in their activities. I particularly refer to the recent Dublin West by-election campaign during which various promises were given. I am asking the Minister to give these groups a commitment in writing so that they can plan from now until the end of the year.

We must remember that in the country at any given time we have 300,000 three-year-olds, but of them fewer than 20,000 are attending pre-school playgroups. Yesterday I was at an "open day" for these groups in my constituency and I watched the absorption of those small children, not yet eligible for formal schooling. In my opinion some of the four-years-olds should not be in formal schooling: they should be learning through socialising with other children, through freedom of expression, outside the confines of their homes in which very often mothers can be under stress because there are younger children or older children or because they are ill. I do not suggest that this is a child-minding facility. However, if a mother is under stress in the home through illness or because she has more children that she can manage, it is in her interest that the children will be occupied in a way which will not worsen the stress on the mother.

I should like specific commitments from the Ministers for Health and Education. From the educational point of view, it is distressing to see children of that age neglected. I should like to pay a tribute to the people in the Irish Pre-School Playgroups Association, to Dr. Barnardo's institutions and community playgroups who have been carrying on over the years with minimal or no public funding. There has been almost total disinterest in this House in the work they have been doing.

Debate adjourned.

Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 27 May 1982

Financial Resolutions, 1982. - Financial Resolution No. 6: General (Resumed).

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 27 May 1982