Vol. 337 No. 8
I move:
That a sum not exceeding £7,459,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1982, for the salaries and expenses of the Department of the Taoiseach and for payment of certain grants-in-aid.
Vote 3 and the Supplementary may be discussed together.
Could the Taoiseach indicate what is involved in relation to these sums?
The sum of £200,000 is for sectoral development committees set up between employers, trade unions and the Government to review different sectors of industry. The amount was provided in the budget.
The House is being asked to pass in their totality Estimates for all the remaining Departments, being in their original form as presented and in a number of cases involving additional Supplementary Estimates of a considerable nature. Perhaps the Taoiseach could indicate where the savings of £45 million indicated by the Minister for Finance will be made this year.
That is not provided in any of the Estimates today. The Minister for Finance has already indicated that this and other over-runs will be dealt with by proposals he will bring forward later in the year.
I am not talking about an over-run. The Minister has indicated that a sum of £45 million is to be saved on departmental Estimates so as to fund the tax concession in respect of PRSI contributions. It seems extraordinary that the House is being asked to adopt all the departmental Estimates in their original form, together with a number of Supplementary Estimates, while the Minister for Finance has indicated on several occasions that he intends to effect a saving of £45 million in the course of the year.
The fact that it is being voted does not mean that the money will be spent.
It is rather a lot to invite the House to adopt all these Estimates while we have already been told of the Government's intention that £45 million of these Votes will not be expended. Surely it shows something less than courtesy to the House to expect us to pass Votes involving hundreds of millions of pounds while the House has been told quite clearly by the Minister for Finance that he intends across a spectrum of Departments to implement spending cuts of £45 million. Those cuts will not be implemented until August but in terms of annual outlay they represent cuts of £100 million.
The money may not be expended, even though it is being voted.
Since a commitment has already been given by the Minister for Finance that £45 million of these moneys will not be spent, surely it shows less than courtesy not to inform the House of the Departments in which these cuts are to be achieved.
Not necessarily. That does not follow. Despite our best endeavours to provide additional sitting times on Fridays for full discussion of these Estimates, the House has not been able to get through them. I will not now go into the reasons for that. We have done our best to provide time for the Opposition to discuss Estimates more fully this year than any other year. The Estimates are going through now in the way agreed by the Whips because there is no alternative facing the House. It is not the Government's fault that they have not been discussed in greater detail, Estimate by Estimate. We are voting the Estimates as brought forward and the Opposition should not complain if we indicate clearly that we intend to the best of our ability to achieve savings on all these Estimates. We have already indicated on a number of occasions that the savings which will be achieved on expenditures and staffing, et cetera, will be made between now and the end of the year but that does not affect the normal parliamentary process of voting the Estimates through as provided for in the Book of Estimates. In every year the Government and in particular the Department of Finance are expected to achieve savings on Estimates, even though those Estimates have been voted through the Dáil.
I might approach the matter from a different direction.
On a point of order, my understanding of the procedure this morning is that the Estimates will be brought forward by me or the individual Ministers and that in regard to most of the Estimates the proceedings will be confined to questions. Subsequently, when the main body of Estimates and Supplementary Estimates has been disposed of, three particular groups will be debated fully. At this stage the arrangement is that these Estimates will be brought forward by us and agreed by the House, subject only to questions of elucidation or information in regard to any particular Estimate. I hope that arrangement will be adhered to.
(Dún Laoghaire): I am very anxious that the agreement should not be broken and I accept what the Taoiseach says. The Government have played their part in trying to give us time to debate these Estimates. We were given an assurance that when the Dáil resumes we will have the opportunity of debating the remaining Estimates. Deputy Boland's point is quite different and has nothing to do with the agreement. It is a separate issue. We accept that we have entered into an agreement that these Estimates should go through “on the nod” but Deputy Boland's point concerns the projected saving of £45 million.
I appreciate the Taoiseach's point but I consider my question ought to have been raised, and the Vote for the Taoiseach's Department seemed the most appropriate. Perhaps the Taoiseach could indicate whether there will be any spending cuts or reductions in the Estimates and Supplementary Estimates in respect of his Department in the remainder of this year.
Yes, we expect to achieve savings on staffing in my Department.
Perhaps the Taoiseach could give some indication of the extent of the spending cuts which are to be effected in his Department for the remainder of this year.
The real position is that I cannot give the Deputy the exact information at this stage. They are not spending cuts, but we are hoping to achieve savings on staff.
There will then be a saving on the sum now being voted by the Dáil, is that an undertaking?
That is our plan at the moment and that is our expectation.
I thank the Taoiseach very much.
