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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Jul 1982

Vol. 337 No. 10

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Department Savings.

3.

asked the Minister for Finance the savings to date in different Departments; and if they are more or less than the amount sought in Supplementary Estimates to date.

Clare): Supplementary Estimates published to date amount to £234,601,020. Virtually all of this, that is to say a sum of £232,601,010, was provided for in the budget.

At this stage of the year there are, formally, no departmental savings as such and it is not usual practice to issue statements of projected savings.

Is the Minister of State aware that in the course of one of his most recent television interviews the Taoiseach referred to overruns in certain areas of expenditure? Incidentally, those television interviews of his have become more numerous of late. Can the Minister of State indicate if he has acquired any information since he was last unable to answer questions on this subject as to the over runs that the Taoiseach referred to? Has the Minister any information as to the extent of these over runs?

(Clare): The question is about savings to date in different Departments and I have answered that question. There is no question of an over run where the sum involved is concerned because it was provided for in the budget.

Would the Minister agree that the question refers to amounts sought in Supplementary Estimates and will he state if any amounts have been sought in the form of Supplementary Estimates in respect of any or all of the over runs in Government spending to which the Taoiseach referred in a recent television interview?

(Clare): As I said in my reply, the amount involved by way of Supplementary Estimates is £232,601,010 and this was provided for in the budget. Consequently, there is no question of an over run. There is a difference of £2 million by way of extra capital for Údarás na Gaeltachta. That was not provided for in the budget and will therefore have to be the subject either of a Supplementary Estimate or of some other form of provision later.

Am I correct in assuming, then, that the Minister for Finance knows nothing of the over runs that were referred to by the Taoiseach in the television interview in question?

(Clare): I have explained that there is no question of an over run where the Supplementary Estimates are concerned.

The Taoiseach said that there were over runs.

(Clare): Not in respect of these Estimates.

Is it the position that the Supplementary Estimates for the over runs have yet to be presented to us?

Could I ask the Minister of State — in view of the fact that this is the fourth or fifth day running on which he has been taking the strictly Finance, as distinct from the Office of Public Works, Questions, in place of Deputy MacSharry — whether he regards it as satisfactory that the exigencies of a by-election should keep the Minister for Finance away from this House during the discussion and putting of a very large number of extremely important questions for which Deputy Barrett, great though is the personal regard we have for him, is in no position to assume responsibility and frequently — and I do not mean this with any disrespect — does not know what is the purpose of the Question?

Deputy, this was answered this morning.

Sir, we did not know this morning——

(Clare): In answer to the question, the absence of the Minister has nothing to do with the by-election. He is in the Seanad with his Finance Bill.

We have now had four or five days running on which the Minister for Finance has not been here. Surely the Minister of State might agree that it would have been a courtesy and a sign of some responsibility to the House if the Minister had been here perhaps yesterday, perhaps last Thursday, perhaps last Wednesday, on all of which occasions — notwithstanding that we saw Deputy MacSharry off and on — Deputy Barrett opposite, who is strictly speaking responsible only for the Office of Public Works, was asked to reply to his questions, for most of which we simply had to take his good faith as——

(Clare): The Minister was in the Seanad yesterday also with, I think, the Second Reading of the Finance Bill.

Is there any rule which prohibits Deputy Barrett from appearing in the Seanad in place of Deputy MacSharry and allowing Deputy MacSharry to appear here, as Minister for Finance, to answer to his own House? Is there any rule which prohibits a Minister of State from appearing in the Seanad? Many a time it has happened, and I have done it myself.

Is it not the case that it is precisely for this reason that the Constitution provides that the only Minister who must be a Member of the Dáil is the Minister for Finance?

Hear, hear.

Arising out of the Minister of State's reply, surely he does not expect us to believe that the only sum not provided for in the budget is one of £2 million? Surely he is aware that there was a promise given at the Dublin West by-election to spend £45 million? That was the reason I put down that question. If there have been no savings to date and if we have had Supplementary Estimates last year of £599 million, the previous year to the tune of £477 million and the preceding year to the tune of £360 million odd, where does the Minister expect to find this £45 million? Therefore is the rumour not true that we will have a second budget in the month of October?

(Clare): As I said in my reply, except for £2 million, the remainder was provided for in the budget and that is a fact. And I am not aware of any promises or commitments costing £45 million given in the Dublin West by-election. Therefore I do not know where the Deputy gets his figure.

Does the Minister of State not recognise that no-one here is anxious to upset him, that it is not a satisfactory situation for the Opposition to find themselves in, that they should be having to grill him here over something of which he has only a scratch knowledge, while the Megabillion Kid is over in the Seanad sitting back listening to Senators' speeches and not being grilled about anything?

(Clare): The Deputy was in the Seanad at one time.

With respect to the Minister of State, why is Deputy Barrett not sent to the Seanad in place of Deputy MacSharry?

I am calling Question No. 4.

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