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asked the Minister for Justice if he will give a commitment that Coolock Community Law Centre, Dublin, will receive funding in 1983; and if, in order to avoid the necessity of reviewing the funding of the scheme on an annual basis, he will agree to include it in future in the regular annual departmental Estimate.
43.
asked the Minister for Justice if, in view of the serious financial problems of the Coolock Community Law Centre, the Government have made any decision to make a grant for 1983 towards the centre.
(Limerick East): A Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 42 and 43 together.
The Minister for Finance, in the documentation circulated in conjunction with his financial statement on the budget delivered to the House on 9 February 1983, indicated that an amount of £30,000 is being reserved for the Coolock Community Law Centre in 1983 in the Vote for the Department of Social Welfare.
As regards Deputy De Rossa's question concerning future funding, he will appreciate that it would be neither possible nor appropriate for me to give any undertaking about future funding for the centre.
The unfortunate position of the Coolock Community Law Centre is that they have been passed from the Department of Justice to the Department of Social Welfare to the Department of Health and they do not know from one year to the next whether they will have money the following year, or even the following month. Would the Minister say if he regards his Department as having any responsibility in the area of providing finance for that centre which deals almost exclusively with questions of providing free legal advice and assistance?
(Limerick East): As the Deputy is aware, the Free Legal Aid Board operate under the auspices of my Department and over the past number of years it was anomalous that separate provision was being made for a voluntary group outside the auspices of that board. I am aware that the Coolock Community Law Centre provide a service in excess of strictly legal aid and consequently it was thought more appropriate that the matter should be funded under the combat poverty scheme in the Department of Social Welfare rather than the Department of Justice, and that will be the position from now on.
The figures provided to me by the Coolock Law Centre indicate that the service they provide is approximately four to five times less expensive than that provided by the Free Legal Aid Board and they are obviously providing a service which the board, for one reason or another, are not in a position to provide at the moment. Therefore, would the Minister not reconsider his attitude to this centre and see if he could provide funding on a long-term basis rather than each year as at present?
(Limerick East): That is exactly the reason why it is going to be funded by the Department of Social Welfare. I have seen the figures referred to by the Deputy and I do not agree with them because I question the relative base. I appreciate that the Coolock Community Law Centre are doing very useful work in the area they serve and it is so that they will be in a position to operate a service distinct from that being provided by the Free Legal Aid Board in my Department that the arrangement is now being made to place them under the auspices of the Department of Social Welfare. I am sure the people responsible and working in that centre are not worried whether they get the money from the Department of Social Welfare or the Department of Justice so long as they get money and have the freedom to operate the service.
The money provided this year is less than that provided last year by the Department of Justice. It seems extraordinary that the Department of Justice are not willing to accept responsibility for the provision of this service.
(Limerick East): As I pointed out, the Department of Justice already have responsibility for the Free Legal Aid Board who provide a comprehensive national service. The Coolock Community Law Centre provide a voluntary service beyond what is simply free legal aid and they provide a very useful service in the area in which they operate. I suggest that the arrangement being made now whereby funds will be provided by the Department of Social Welfare — with further submissions on the adequacy of the funding being made to the Minister for Social Welfare — is a better arrangement than the one made heretofore, which was an ad hoc arrangement which continued unsatisfactorily over a number of years.
The Minister for Justice will be aware that for some time the Free Legal Aid Board made the services of one or two solicitors available to the Coolock Community Law Centre. In view of the fact that even though a great deal of the work of the centre is other than legal aid would the Minister not recognise that a very considerable part of it in fact still is legal aid and that therefore some liaison between the Coolock Community Law Centre and the Free Legal Aid Board, some swopping of provision of services would be desirable? Furthermore — while I agree with the Minister that the hard-pressed staff of that centre do not really care where the money comes from —as a great amount of the work done is of a matrimonial, domestic type, does he not think it is not entirely suitable to transfer it to the Department of Social Welfare?
(Limerick East): Yes, I am aware that previously one solicitor was supplied by the Free Legal Aid Board to the Coolock Community Law Centre. That arose out of the extent of the advice being provided by the Coolock Community Law Centre to victims of the Stardust fire. That process has now been completed. I take the Deputy's point that many of the services provided by the Free Legal Aid Board and the Coolock Community Law Centre are co-extensive. My Department and the Free Legal Aid Board have no objection to the Coolock Community Law Centre referring cases to the Free Legal Aid Board. Certainly I should like to see liaison between what is the official Department of Justice Free Legal Aid Board and the voluntary body which is certainly supplementing the particular scheme on the north side of the city.
As the Minister acknowledges the desirability of liaison, would he look into the question of whether that liaison can best be effected by the provision of staff by the Free Legal Aid Board to the Coolock Community Law Centre, because the question of situation comes into it and the provision of a legal aid service in the centre would be very helpful in all the circumstances?
(Limerick East): The Free Legal Aid Board operate nationally. In certain situations as well as operating a central office they operate a clinic system. If the management and staff of the Coollock Community Law Centre were to put forward proposals to the Free Legal Aid Board to avail of their centre in Coolock for clinic purposes, where a solicitor from the Free Legal Aid Board would attend, that would be a matter for the Free Legal Aid Board. Certainly I would have no objection to it.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.
