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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 23 Feb 1983

Vol. 340 No. 5

Insurance (Amendment) Bill, 1982: Second Stage.

It has been agreed that the Insurance (Amendment) Bill, 1982, and the Export Promotion (Amendment) Bill, 1982, will be taken together and the Minister's Second Stage speech will cover both Bills. The Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism will first move the Insurance (Amendment) Bill, 1982.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Because this Bill, and the Export Promotion (Amendment) Bill, both deal with changes in export promotion legislation, I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, for the sake of convenience to cover both of them in my speech. The purpose of the Bills is to enable Córas Tráchtála to promote, assist and develop, in addition to the exportation of goods, the provision of such service activities as may be designated by order made by the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism, and to enable also the provision of export credit insurance facilities in support of such service activities.

Recent years have seen a significant increase in the growth of trade in international service activities and a commensurate increase in their contribution to domestic economies and to overall economic development. In the United States invisibles currently represent 33 per cent of total trade receipts while in the case of Britain and France they account for over 30 per cent.

At around £550 to £600 billion in 1979 international transactions in invisibles were equivalent to more than one-third of world merchandise trade. While this ratio has remained roughly unchanged since the late sixties, the structure of international trade in services has, however, changed considerably under the impact of the emergence of some oil exporting countries as large importers of labour and know-how. There are, therefore, increasing export earning opportunities for those countries with the requisite skills and commitment.

Our own hopes for economic advancement are still firmly rooted in export growth on as wide a base as possible. It is clear that in the face of growing international opportunities we should, as a key objective, do all that we can to seek an increasing share of markets abroad, not only for merchandise but also for as great a range of our service activities as we can. Exports of services have a high value added and employment content; their net contribution to the balance of payments is significantly greater than most manufactured products and they often lead to a substantial spin-off in terms of linked exports of manufactured products.

The Bills now before the House have been prepared to permit the realisation in the most effective form of this key objective. They are necessary because I have been advised that existing laws governing the operations of Córas Tráchtála and the provision of export credit insurance — with the exception of some few service activities recognised by amending Acts of 1969 — relate only to external trade in goods or merchandise.

In effect, this limitation, which is inherent in our legal provisions, acts as a very real constraint on the achievement of optimum export performance by the many domestic service activities in which we are strong and for which excellent export potential is known to exist. It also clearly impedes the quickest possible realisation of our twin national priorities of employment creation and an improvement in our balance of payments situation.

Against this background, the Bills are both significant and urgent. In many other countries, with whose firms our own must compete, the relevant administrative machinery is invariably geared for the promotion of exports of both goods and services. We simply cannot afford any more to be left behind in this regard. Moreover, a thorough assessment of market prospects abroad has confirmed that there is considerable interest, particularly among developing countries, in the wide range of service activities which have been developed here in the course of our progression from a mainly agricultural-based, to an industrialised, mixed economy. This interest ranges from our structures and systems for public administration, right through the specialised activities of our semi-State sector, to several of our private-sector service activities.

Greatest opportunities are likely to arise in the Continent of Africa, the Middle Eastern oil based economies and Latin America, where many factors including our lack of a colonial history, promise a significant degree of acceptability for our services skills. I would foresee that, resulting from the new forms of encouragement and assistance which these Bills will permit, our traderelated invisible receipts will increase substantially over the next two years given the right kind of commitment and support. There should also be an — as of now — unquantifiable, but significant, increase in purchases of goods from Irish firms where Irish consultants are engaged to undertake, or be sub-contractors in, major projects abroad.

While facilitating these gains, however, it is absolutely essential, in the present economic climate, that scarce resources be utilised only in the case of those service activities which display greatest export potential in the light of the stage of economic development of likely client countries and their known requirements. Immediate and substantial prospects are perceived for infrastructural construction, health and education facilities, organisational and technical consultancy, and training. Others may offer promise in the future, however, and indeed some of those I have mentioned may, in time, diminish in significance as export revenue earners.

Selectivity and flexibility are both required, therefore, to ensure always that our limited resources are best deployed. Accordingly, each Bill proposes that the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism be empowered to designate, by order, the service activities to be assisted for export purposes. I am sure that the House will agree that, in the circumstances, this is the best format to adopt.

My Department have given consideration, in consultation with Córas Tráchtála, to the service activities that should be so designated initially. They will be: agricultural development and processing; construction related services; medical services; training services covering all activities; technical and general consulting services including commercial laboratory services and research and development services; international financial services; computer software and data processing; public administration and media recording and publishing services. This list also mirrors closely the service activities which qualify for assistance under the IDA's services programme. The House will appreciate the need for such a close symmetry as between the IDA's investment function and the various State supports in the critical area of exports.

As regards the operational role envisaged for Córas Tráchtála, I would like to assure the House that there will be no overlapping or duplication with the very valuable services already provided to their members by such organisations as DEVCO, HEDCO and the Associations of Architects, Engineers and Accountants. Instead, Córas Tráchtála are being charged with achieving the most effective national projection and marketing of our export potential in the services area. Their experience to date has shown that their structure and systems are eminently suitable for assisting all exporters whether of goods or services.

Córas Tráchtála expect to work in tandem with all existing sectoral groups to ensure that: (i) the best advice is made available, (ii) the best form of practical assistance is given, (iii) all possible opportunities are identified — which will be facilitated by CTT's substantial international network — and (iv) tendering and proposal documents are properly prepared and presented.

In addition, Córas Tráchtála will also monitor the overall environment, internal and international, for factors likely to inhibit Irish exports of services and to promote the removal of constraints where these are identified.

To ensure overall consistency, the service activities which will be designated initially by order under the Insurance (Amendment) Bill — so that export credit insurance support will also be made available as an effective support — will be identical to those I have already listed for designation under the Export Promotion (Amendment) Bill.

Administratively, the new insurance arrangements will form part of the schemes operated by the Insurance Corporation of Ireland acting as my agents. Suitable policies to cover the kind of activities involved are currently being drawn up by my Department in consultation with the Insurance Corporation.

Generally, I would like to say that the provision of export credit insurance is an increasingly important support to the activities of Córas Tráchtála in obtaining export orders for Irish business. This is especially the case in such growing markets as the Middle East and Africa where export credit insurance is seen as an essential business safeguard. As with the present insurance schemes, the principal aim of the new insurance arrangements will be to assist and encourage Irish exporters to develop existing and new markets and to provide protection for them against non-payment by foreign buyers due to a wide range of potential causes of loss. The arrangements will represent a valuable security for exporters of services, particularly when trading under conditions of intense competition on international markets and in the face of financial insecurity in some areas of the world.

I ask the House to support these Bills. They will serve to expand significantly the base of our export potential and to equip our exporters of services, deservedly, with the same range and quality of supports and assistance as are currently available to our exporters of goods and merchandise.

Ba mhaith liom ar dtús comhgháirdeas a dhéanamh leis an Teachta Cluskey as é bheith ceaptha mar Aire Trádala, Tráchtála agus Turasóireachta. Seo é an chead seans a bhí agam é sin a dhéanamh go poiblí.

Tá súil agam, de bharr an taithíforleathan atá aige maidir le cúrsaí sa bhaile agus thar lear agus é bheith in a bhall den Chomphobal Eorpach, go rachaidh sé sin chun tairbhe dá chuid oibre sa Roinn seo.

I would like first of all to congratulate Deputy Cluskey on his appointment as Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism.

I welcome these Bills on behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party. They are being taken together by agreement. They are a very necessary extension of the services required to develop our exports. The whole basis of the two Bills and their whole thrust is to encourage our exports. That has universal acceptance. I understand that the purpose of the Insurance (Amendment) Bill is to extend the facilities available to service export activities. This type of insurance is regarded as an essential safeguard in the export business.

It is generally accepted that extra support is needed for the activities of CTT in obtaining export orders. Without these essential safeguards, they would not be able to compete as effectively as their competitors. The Minister said the main thrust of the activities is towards the Middle East, Africa and the Latin American countries. I understand that this type of insurance arrangement is also made available by other European countries to their export operators. We should not be negligent about providing our export drive with the same safeguards as our competitors.

The Minister mentioned premiums and said he was having arrangements drawn up to have the contacts made available at an early date. I hope due note will be taken of the fact that, if at all possible, the premiums should cover the claims. The premiums and the whole operations of the insurance scheme should be self-financing, including departmental costs. Sometimes these contracts are drawn up on behalf of Departments and do not include departmental costs. This might be borne in mind when the financial contracts are being entered into. All costs should be recouped to the Exchequer and the whole scheme should be self-financing.

I understand the Treaty of Rome has a significant bearing on this type of insurance development. Article 93 is specific in that regard. I presume the Minister and the Department have taken steps to comply with the regulation in the Treaty of Rome. We do not want to get into international litigation concerning our non-compliance with various provisions under the Treaty. I am sure that matter has been attended to. The Minister did not refer to it, and it might be as well to have it cleared up now.

I believe that when modifications of existing arrangements are being contemplated, the Commission must be notified. I should like to know whether clearance has been obtained from that source with a view to our being allowed to introduce these modifications into our legislation. All aids granted to exporters must be notified to the Commission. Despite the fact that the Minister said most of the insurance would have a bearing on export activities outside the EEC countries, there might be cases where this insurance might be applied to exports within the EEC countries as well. Is there a difference? Have we different types of contracts which have to be made available to comply with that regulation?

I should have liked the Minister to lay more emphasis on developing new markets. I imagine there is great scope in that area. It would have been pleasing to hear the Minister refer to two other items so far as insurance is concerned. This has a bearing on the complement of civil service staff. I would hope the Department could handle this new insurance scheme with their existing staff. I am sure that will not gain much favour with the existing staff complement, but I hope there will be no need for an extension of the existing staff. There was some talk about the costings of various schemes in which the State was involved, particularly schemes like this which could be readily quantified. Detailed costing might have been a useful addition to the Minister's speech. He can give us further information about that when he is replying.

Because both Bills are being taken together there is a certain amount of overlapping. On the second Bill we are mainly concerned with the question of CTT. We are happy to be at one with the Minister in wishing to help this organisation to promote, assist and develop exports and in particular the export of service activities. I understand this will be done generally by the order of the Minister. As we know, it is a further extension of the activities of CTT. In these critical times exports are fundamental to our national development and to our hopes with regard to creating job opportunities. We need maximum export performance from all our industries, not only in manufacturing but also the service sector. It is possible that export revenue will have doubled by 1984. I should like to have heard the Minister set out the targets for our exporters which, if achieved, would provide a much needed fillip for all our export activities.

As the Minister said, there are existing legal provisions dealing with these matters and previous amendments permit the promotion of exports. These amendments already exist in so far as design and planning services, architecture, engineering and related disciplines are concerned under section 3 of the amending Act of 1971. The insurance side is covered under the 1969 Act. CTT already provide a full range of services and grants to architects, engineers and people engaged in planning and design activities abroad. These people have gained quite a reputation for their disciplines and have added considerably to the good reputation of Ireland so far as these types of services are concerned.

We do not hear enough about these services but they are highly valued abroad and it is not often realised that the activities of CTT in this regard and the other groups mentioned by the Minister have been involved in this kind of work for some years now. We must do everything we can to encourage them. It is pleasing to see that the Minister may by order designate other activities as well, but I would like to think it would be done in a co-ordinated fashion.

I would like to take the opportunity, because of the considerable reputations achieved by those involved in the export of services in the past under the pretty limited headings of design and planning, to congratulate these people for their efforts in pioneering those exports. I am pleased to see that the Minister is considering making orders to increase the areas of service activities that can be exported. He mentioned the construction related services, especially in regard to infrastructure. We have a certain expertise there which has been recognised abroad for a long time. It could very well be an area to which he will give his first concern. He mentioned medical services and to that I would like to add educational services. We have expertise in that area which could be marketed to our advantage. As well as helping our balance of payments it could bring distinction and a reputation to the country for what we have achieved and what we can make available to others less fortunate than ourselves.

I would like to think that our training services have been well developed and I think they could be added to the list and the Minister might consider designating at an early date. In that regard also we have a public administration, while we sometimes berate it, which is highly regarded as being very efficient. Perhaps this expertise could also be marketed.

We are well known for our agricultural development and our processing industry and these are other areas that the Minister will be considering when designating areas for export services.

One of our newer growth areas which has received not a little notice internationally is computer services and data processing. There must be less developed countries which would need such services and I hope CTT will be requesting the Minister to designate a wide area of functions and experience that is available here under many headings. There has been an acceleration of growth in trade among all the OECD countries in services activities over a period. We must have that necessary correlation between the level of economic development and the receipts from, as the Minister called them invisible exports. The Minister quite rightly says that invisible exports in the United States are about one-third of the total trade receipts and is probably the fastest growing element in the trade account at present. About 30 per cent of the trade receipts of Britain and France come from this activity but the figure which was not mentioned and which is probably the most important as far as we are concerned, is what are these invisible exports in Irish terms? I think they would be about 20 per cent, so it can be readily seen that other developed countries have given considerable recognition to this as being a major winner for foreign and invisible exports. We will have to take steps to get our percentage up to 30 per cent, which is regarded as average. That would have a significant impact on our balance of payments and the potential for the development of these services should not be confined solely to the State sector. The private sector has been actively involved in this for some time and we should get the necessary correlation between both to maximise the effort as far as our invisible exports are concerned.

It is a well worn cliché that export growth is the key to our economic advancement but we must recognise that it is most important to achieve that desired end. This Bill will give effect to an area of activity that will form part of the overall job creation strategy. While the Bill may appear at first sight as not having the same importance as other Bills, there can be enormous benefits as far as the balance of payments and job creation are concerned. We must recognise that we have to create the conditions for a broadly based economic recovery and that we have to take the whole spectrum of activity into consideration. That is where the Minsiter responsible for trade and export will play an enormous part in achieving our targets. We have to genente employment and this export grown, even in this select field, is going to help enormously to achieve that aim. There is no other way to get unemployment down to an acceptable level. We must utilise every avenue in the export arena. There are many markets abroad and, while many of them have been tapped as far as the construction and general consultancy areas are concerned, we will have to broaden the field and purse them with vigour. In CTT the Minister has an excellent organisation under his control. I hope he will be seeking with them new measures and strategies and that under this heading he will give them the necessary power to take whatever steps are necessary to maximise the benefits that can accrue from this kind of operation. He will have our full support this.

The Minister mentioned casually our political acceptability, but it is relevant in so far as the potential that can be gained in this area is concerned. We very often do not give that the prominence and respect which is rightly due to it. We are a non-colonial power and we are accepted by certain types of people where others are not. I am not just talking about Britain, I am talking about Continental countries as well. These are the countries that are willing to pay for these services. Very often they are not at all happy to deal with ex-colonial powers. Consequently, we have an advantage in the market as far as this is concerned. It will have to be maximised and I know the Minister will be pressing that this will be utilised as part of a strategy to seek out those countries that see Ireland as more readily acceptable to them because of their historical situation. If that is there to be used we should use it.

We must move away from our dependence on our agricultural base. I am not running down our agricultural industry. Agricultural development and processing can be marketed and we can sell that expertise abroad but we will have to move away from it a little now and put other developments on the same plane. I am glad to see the Minister is including a whole range of areas where he might designate and I would ask him, not to be slow about giving as much prominence to other areas such as consultancy, administration, medicine and education as has been given over the years to the agricultural sector.

The public sector will have a large part to play and I expect the Minister to encourage all the Departments and all the State agencies responsible to the various Departments to develop a coherent long-term approach to the matter of exporting our services. Departments that do not come up to the Minister's expectations——

On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, it is not fair to Deputy Flynn that he should have to speak through the noise from the Gallery.

It is a little bit off-putting but I understand.

I would remind our young visitors on the Gallery that while they are very welcome and we are very glad to have them here they should be quiet and should not make noise.

I appreciate Deputy Kelly's kindness but when one has survived making political speeches into the teeth of a force eight wind off the Atlantic at election time the children in the gallery do not put one off.

The Minister should be as stiff as he likes with Departments and State agencies and press them to maximise their efforts. It is not just for the Minister and CTT to deliver the goods. He will have to get the whole-hearted co-operation of all Departments and State agencies and they should be obliged to show reason if they cannot come up to the targets he sets for them. There will certainly be a slow start in some agencies who do not have experience of marketing but they will build up experience over a period. We must develop a good track record and we will only get that by a co-ordinated effort. The Minister will be doing a great day's work for our reputation abroad if he takes unto himself whatever powers are necessary to see to it that everybody lives up to his expectations in this regard. If we get into developing countries on the bottom floor with these services now, with a high level of expertise, we can gain a foothold that will make us very difficult to shift in the future. We will have a continuing run with them and it will expand into a much bigger area of activity.

I can see no conflict between the activities of State agencies at home and their overseas activities. However, let us not get into the situation where they become so involved in marketing these services abroad that they neglect their operation at home. That would not be much use to the economy.

The initial investment in developing these services for export is high. The Minister will have my whole-hearted support and my party's support in making this investment. This is something that in the long term will give a good return and it will be to the Minister's credit if he takes the bold step of seeking the money. The benefits are enormous. It is not just a matter of employment and building up our expertise. The foreign earnings alone would warrant the Minister taking the steps to meet this initial investment.

The private sector have been involved in this field for a considerable time and there has been very considerable growth. I understand the private sector in 1981 employed about 338,000 people in this area, which is 30 per cent of the total employment in the economy. In 1977 the figure was 302,000 people. We can see how this is developing. When I said we might double the figures in a few years I was not joking because the potential is there. We must look to this market and work effectively to achieve our aims. We should set a high target because it can be achieved.

The sections showing the largest increase as far as the private sector is concerned in the past few years are banking, insurance and professional services. The Minister should pay attention to those areas.

When we speak about exports we think of competitiveness. I believe competitiveness can be achieved by having greater efficiency in all the areas referred to. A reduction in inflation will provide a very favourable environment for this type of growth. While not wishing to sound derogratory the recent budget will affect our competitiveness but we have to live with that now. It can be overcome by greater efficiency and I believe the Minister will be pressing for that.

I should like to congratulate Córas Tráchtála on a recent "first" for them. They won the largest trade promotion contract ever funded by the EEC. I understand it was for a programme of technical assistance and training in export promotion for the 12 countries in the Caribbean community. The contract is worth about one million dollars and is effective for two-and-a-half years. They deserve to be congratulated for this effort. Not only will it improve the existing international respect for CCT but it will also have a two-way benefit. It will bring foreign currency to the Exchequer and, perhaps even more important, CTT might utilise this new contract to identify areas for our exporters. This new contract will be based mainly on the efforts of Caribbean manufacturers. CTT will identify and win new exports markets for that community and this will involve market research, export incentives, attendance at trade fairs, exhibitions and so on. Here we have our people with the necessary expertise getting this new area of activity from the Minister. They already have a contract on behalf of the Caribbean countries and will operate in Latin America. I should not be at all displeased to see us boost that effort so that we would have a presence there, identifying markets not only for the people who are contracting but also identifying areas for export for our manufacturing and service sides. The Minister should bring this point to the notice of CTT.

CTT have had many requests during the years from many countries for assistance in developing their national export policies. They have done an enormous job and deserve to be congratulated. They will have a considerable impact so far as foreign currency is concerned but they will also have a major opportunity to identify markets for our manufacturers at home that they can penetrate. I would broaden their base of activity and would allow them a certain amount of freedom. When the Minister is designating the areas of activity he intends to allow, then, he should be more than flexible. He should take a risk. After all, this is a risk business and the Minister recognises that fact.

I understand there will be close association between CTT and the IDA. They also have a new role in service activities and the Minister should ensure that this is maximised. There will be a considerable investment by the IDA and we should ensure that we get the best out of our industries. The IDA will invest considerable sums in building up the services. Let CTT go into these markets with our full backing. The Minister will have the whole-hearted support of this House if a strategy is adopted that will give job opportunities at home and abroad.

One of the major advantages of this kind of promotion is the beneficial effect it will have on our balance of payments. We will have export growth but there will not be a reciprocal growth in imports so far as these areas of activity are concerned. That is an enormous advantage. The IDA will operate on one side and CTT will have the necessary powers to play their part and there is no reason why we cannot have great advantages so far as our balance of payments are concerned.

I should like to think that downstream developments for firms operating at home will be enormous. While it is not now permissible for the Minister to get involved in the promotion of a "Buy Irish" campaign, like all good rules and regulations there must be a way around that. Here we have that way. Our people who are selling their services abroad will be in a position to send home reports of areas in which new operators could become involved to supply a demand. This is the "Buy Irish" campaign of the future and I am recommending it to the Minister. It could be part of the brief given to those people to identify such markets and to send home reports. I do not mind if the reports are sent to the Minister, the IDA or any other agency. The Minister could monitor the whole operation. The Irish consultants will not just be offering their expertise for the benefit of our economy and that of the New World country concerned but they will also be identifying the requirements necessary and we can set up production lines here to match them.

One very important point is the matter of quality. We must be absolutely critical about this. Unless we have quality control we will be wasting our time. People talk about competitiveness and consider that the only important factor is the unit cost of production but this is not so. The quality of the product can have just as great a bearing on our competitiveness. I urge the Minister to be very firm with people who are providing not only the services but also the downstream activities, to ensure that quality will be one of the primary aims. This will help us to maintain our share in the markets they will gain for us.

The Minister said he had a certain amount of selectivity so far as concerns the services to be assisted. I ask him to be more than flexible in this area. Of course there will be risks but the Minister will find that we will not be critical if there are some failures. We ask him to take risks because this will be necessary. However, the risks can be minimised if other criteria are laid down.

I presume the necessary steps have been taken to gear CTT to take on board these new extensions of their responsibilities. They have already expertise in advising and identifying the appropriate opportunities available. The Minister also stated that advice would be available on the question of presentation and of tendering documents. I regard that as an essential element in achieving the aims set out in the Bill. They would also need to be in a position to monitor the factors inhibiting to trade that would become available to them. They would need to put all that into a package so that when they are gearing up these people they can gear up their own structure to cover the whole range and leave no loopholes in regard to identification, opportunity, presentation, tendering and so on, so that when we go out there we can do so in a professional manner. We have missed much here over the years through poor management. We now have a new beginning in this regard and this Bill gives scope to the Minister to apply that beginning and I think he will take the opportunity afforded to him now.

I welcome both Bills and would stress once again that, as is commonly believed now, if we are to meet the targets required we must do this finally by improving our exports. This area of activity has all the advantages — if it is promoted properly — and so few disadvantages in so far as we are not stuck with imports on the other side. Therefore this area is of considerable interest. In welcoming the Bill I wish the Minister every success in promoting it.

The exporting services which these two Bills are designed to facilitate have already commenced and I am happy to say, as the Minister and Deputy Flynn have said, that we have some notable successes already to show in this area. I should not single out any notabilities, but those which come to the surface of my mind are successes which have been racked up by, for example, Aer Lingus to balance against the unhappy parts of their operation, and successes in the area of provision of hospitals, training foreign administrators and so on. These activities have been going on for some time and there is enormous scope for extending them.

I am afraid that some of these opportunities for extension are suggested by the very thing which Deputy Flynn thought this direction of effort would exclude. He said a few moments ago that one of the great beauties about the export of services was that it did not imply a two-way traffic. It would have benign effects on the balance of payments because it did not bring anything in to offset against itself; it did not bring an import of services into the country. Of course it does not bring it, but this country is being penetrated by imported services very rapidly. Both the Minister in front of me and Deputy Flynn who was in the office previously, know that in fields such as, for example, insurance, the freedom of establishment which the EEC implies and requires has meant the penetration of the Irish insurance market by foreign insurance companies to a degree which is not yet perhaps a serious threat to the existing companies or the native Irish ones but may increaingly become so.

When I was in the Minister's office I had to open, or certainly attend and smile at the opening of, a few of these foreign offices. I used to say to the audence which consisted naturally very largely of Irish insurance people that I hoped this would not be one-way trafic, and that it was high time an Irish company or a consortium of Irish companies moved into the insurance markets in the countries which our membership of the EEC throws open to us. I can see absolutely no reason why, for example, an Italian company. Assicurazioni Generali should now have about 3 to 4 per cent of the motor market here, while we have none of the Italian market. Why have we not moved in on the Italian motor market? I am certain that there are good reasons which would make sense to insurance people, reasons of scale, linguistic reasons, reasons of training, tradition and so on, but some of these reasons existed for the Italian company also. I, and I am sure everybody, would like to see an aggressive spirit spreading from the relatively small number of areas where it exists in Irish manufacturing business right across the rest of Irish manufacturing business and into the Irish services sector, so that they would not regard their horizon as limited by the shores of this small country, but would take the opportunity which our membership of larger communities offers to us to go abroad and sell their services there. That has commenced in other sectors and these Bills are intended to facilitate a very important dimension of that, namely the provision of services such as insurance.

Before I say any more about these other possibilities which lie open for us I would like to say a couple of words about the structure of these two Bills. I listened to the Minister explaining that because his esources were limited, as of course they are, he would himself specify from time to time the areas within which designated services would qualify for support. I believe that these Bills were on the stocks when I was in the Department, and if I had a better memory I would probably remember the reason for this. I confess I have forgotten it, or possibly it has come into the draft since I left. I cannot see why the Minister should think it important to give himself this power. For example, the Export Promotion (Amendment) Bill provides that, in substitution of the provision of the 1959 Act, it is the duty of the board now to promote etc. "the exportation of goods and the provision of services as are specified from time to time by order made by the Minister." What is the reason for the Minister giving himself this responsibility? Surely business is better able than the Minister to see its own opportunities? Surely if a business, even of a kind in which the Minister has not much faith, identifies an opportunity abroad and comes galloping up to CTT asking for help, the board will still have discretion to decide for themselves whether this form of service is likely to be profitable. The same goes, with the necessary change of words, in the Insurance (Amendment) Bill. Here we are talking about such services as are specified from time to time by order made by the Minister. Section 1(1) (a) of that Bill says:

....distribution of goods, the provision of services or any other matter which appears to the Minister conducive to that purpose.

What is the reason for this ministerial interference? I do not mean that, of course, in a disparaging sense. A good rule of business, for as long as this is a country which gives business freedom to operate, is to give it its head, let it find its own opportunities. Certainly, do not throw money after it; do not throw the State's good money after bad at it and do not be extravagant with the people's resources. However, I cannot quite see the reason for this restriction of the service areas, even though the Minister outlined a fairly generous spread of the activities which he proposed to designate. I suppose that is really a small Committee Stage point——

The Chair was thinking along those lines while the Deputy was developing his point. The points he is making now might be more appropriate on Committee Stage.

I do not know what is in the Minister's mind. Maybe he wants to get all stages of these Bills through today. If I said anything which really worried him or his advisors in regard to the structure of the Bill he might think twice about seeking Committee Stage in a few minutes time.

If it is a passing reference——

A passing reference is all I intend to make. I am not sure if the drafting of section 1 (1) (a) in the Insurance (Amendment) Bill will be 100 per cent satisfactory. What is being specified here is a person "carrying on a business or profession in the State". I can imagine that there might be an Irish concern operating wholly outside the State, but through which, because of reasons of its own, possibly some parent organisation or sister company within the State, the Irish economy would derive benefits from its operation. I have not had a chance to study this, but I wonder whether that restriction to businesses or professions in the State is not leaving the Minister too little discretion. Maybe an Irish owned business outside the State would equally meet the objective which he and I want to secure but which the Bill as now drafted would appear to preclude him from achieving.

The possibilities which the export of services represents are not all covered in the list which the Minister gave, generous though it is. Banking facilities represent a sector which is highly developed here, and where there is a great deal of longstanding expertise; I imagine this is an area which the Minister would wish to encourage. He also mentioned training. I hope this will be interpreted flexibly.

I imagine that because of the traditions and standards which are upheld in this area, this State would be an appropriate source for training personnel in areas other than those which the Minister mentioned, for example, a new police force or security force for an emerging country, or a country which is long established but which has decided to bring its police standards into a more acceptable condition.

I am sorry to observe that some of the countries with which we maintain fairly close trading links, or links via our Development Aid programme, unhappily figured in the list published last week by Amnesty as states in which summary executions take place. These are countries on which we depend for trade, or which depend on us, and in which murders are carried out by the State. I hope that in such countries, where there are practices of this kind, it might be possible to hope for an improvement of standards. So far as these bear on police work, this is a country which has a reasonably acceptable face. We have an unarmed force of very high standards. It has its ups and downs; but, by and large, it has a 60-year old tradition of unarmed honesty and efficiency. Most certainly when we look at our nearest neighbour across the Irish Sea we have nothing to apologise for in the standards of our police force. This is an area in which, under the wing of the Garda Síochána or some less formal body, we might have a service of a kind not included in the Minister's list.

The health services were mentioned and rightly so. These are being provided on an export basis particularly in the Arab world. But I do not see any reference, unless it is under "training" to a field which would offer us possibilities, and that is the general field of higher or quasi-higher education. There are universities and advanced colleges in foreign countries which are not set up or staffed by the local state or its inhabitants. For example, there is an American university in Beirut. I will not give any further instances, as I have not got this prepared, but I imagine it is not too bizare to suggest that a developing country night be able to receive an entire university structure from this country with administrative, academic and teaching staff in at least a certain range of faculties. It would receive an efficient system of third level university education. The same goes for training colleges. I do not like the expression "finishing schools" because that connotes privileged young ladies in Switzerland. I do not mean that; but even in the developing world there are middle classes anxious to learn things which we can teach them, notably the Englishlanguage. It may be an unhappy development that history has left us with that capacity, rather than the capacity to speak a language which nobody else would wish to learn. That is the silver lining to the cloud of our cultural submersion. I do not see, unless the Minister is prepared to interpret the word "training" widely, that his list includes this.

I am the least qualified Deputy in the House to speak about the field of sport, but the provision of services would give scope to the kind of entrepreneur who might spot an opening in a foreign country — these by no means consist entirely of people on or below subsistence level — where there may be opportunities for sporting complexes, riding schools, establishments to breed and train horses, or for all I know greyhounds, although I think interest in this sport does not stretch beyond these shores. These are proposals which, since they are new, would strike the observer coming across them for the first time as bizarre. Nonetheless all the Irish marketing successes would have seemed equally bizarre when first suggested. Who could have predicted in the gloon of 1946 that within 20 years one could not buy an item of Waterford Crystal without waiting for three weeks? Who could have predicted it would be the world leader in this field? Who could have predicted five years ago that some product like a cream liqueur would outwigh in export value all other Irish drink products put together? If some Deputy had made these suggestions he would have been regarded as rambling.

There are smaller-scale operations which the developing world will need in one snape or form, and which the developed world does not provide as well as it could. In other words, it is not only the developing world which should be our target; the developed world also has area in which we can teach it something. In moments of dejection which I frequently have when I look around Ireland I console myself by trying to focu on the things which we do better than anybody else. Take landscape gardening, or an achievement such as the Dublin Corporation Parks Department has to its credit or OPW who run St. Stephen's Green. Personally I prefer open spaces to be left clear, which is why I made a fuss last year about the clutter on Leinster Lawn. But a formal garden gives pleasure to many people. It is a highly-skilled operation to design and maintain it. I have been over most of Europe, and know that we do that better than most other people. No doubt our climate has something to do with it, but then our climate is not very different from that of Holland. I was in Amsterdam a few years ago. I hope I do not offend our Dutch friends whom we respect and admire and have a great deal to learn from when I say that I was amazed at the poor standard of the public parks in Amsterdam, the largest city in a country which is world famous for flowers. The parks appeared to be unkempt by comparison with what I was accustomed to in Dublin. As it stands, Dublin Corporation is not geared to exploit this area; they have no statutory function in exporting their services, but it is an area where the Minister and his Department ought to see whether they might be nudged to offer their services, to put out feelers to see what kind of a market there is for such a service.

The same thing goes for theatre management and actor training. This country, for reasons for which no one here can claim credit, has an acceptable reputation in this area. I have no doubt, not just in the developing world, not just in countries that are struggling with poor conditions for a lot of their people, but in the developed world that there might be an opportunity for export of services of that kind. I believe Córas Tráchtála already have such a division. But if they are going to extend in the light of this legislation the activities of this division, they might explore this area too in which there is something, limited though the quantitative opportunities are, in which we do not stand second or third to any other nation.

There are things of a much simpler everyday kind which are sometimes overlooked in which this country still has high standards and is able to provide things cheaper than they can be done anywhere else in Western Europe. Let us take a thing like made-to-measure clothing. I know that the whole textile and garment business has been going through an extremely bad time and that has included the made-to-measure clothing sector as well because of the recession. Leaving that aside, it is a fact that a made-to-measure man's suit anywhere in continental Europe is a luxury of a most exotic kind. In order to get a decent, hand cut man's suit in Frankfurt it would cost about £500 if not more. It is some years ago since I last heard those figures and I probably am out of touch. I have no doubt that the same is true of made-to-measure women's garments as well.

This is an area where our standards are good and our prices are still reasonable. We still have a trained work force who are suffering under the impact of recession and at first flush it would seem to me to be an area in which there must be a business opportunity for us. Again, this is an area in which Ireland has a certain reputation. The image, as advertising gentry would say, of the country gent, the slightly tweedy image nonetheless, is one which others aspire to. The higher up you go the tower blocks of Frankfurt or Milan the more eagerly this image is aspired to. There is money in it. If we had recognised that image a bit earlier at the time when Scotch whisky took off and tried to do something about Irish whiskey instead, we might have got further than the Scotch did.

The area of farm management, farm scientists and agriculturalists generally is envisaged in the Minister's list, so I will not spend time on it. The final area I would like to mention — again, it is not original — is hotel management, hotel keeping. We have a mixed experience in hotel acquisition. Aer Lingus have had a mixed experience in relation to owning ready made foreign hotels. I am not talking about buying foreign hotels with foreign staff. I am talking about offering a package in a developing country which has a certain tourist potential of hotel construction and management. Again, we are talking about an area where other countries because of their climate and so on have an enormous future potential, which is already being exploited by some of them — for example, the Seychelles, where the tourist manager is an Irishman who formerly worked in Bord Fáilte. This is an area in which many developing countries because of their climate have a huge potential and in which again, in our country there is a recession on for a variety of reasons, for some of which Members of this House must bear responsibility.

Some of those suggestions many make sense and some of them may not make any sense. I offer them to the Minister and his Department. I know from experience of his Department that anything said here will be handled with the utmost conscientiousness and skill. I am glad to have an opportunity also of complimenting the Minister not only on his appointment but on taking over a Department which I thought it a great privilege to be associated with. I am sure Deputy Flynn would not dissent from that judgment.

I readily concur.

What we are talking about here in regard to the provision of services has an employment dimension too. The Minister actually mentioned this, but it did not surface in Deputy Flynn's speech. It has an employment dimension. Of course it is a dimension implying employment abroad — in other words, not to put too fine a point on it, emigration, temporary or longer term. Deputy Flynn may be amazed to find he has sincerely endorsed two Bills which will facilitate emigration. I hope he will admit that none of the activities the Minister mentioned, which he mentioned or the ones I have mentioned can be conducted without emigration. There is not one of these things which can be conducted without the presence on foreign soil of one of our people. I am sure Deputy Flynn will admit that you cannot run an Irish banking office in Morocco from Snugboro, that you cannot run a sports complex in Singapore from Breabby, that you cannot run a riding establishment in Zambia from Curriadrish. You have got to be there in person. That is something which other nationalities have recognised.

These facts underlie the material success in the world which we are talking about. We are not assessors to God Almighty on the Day of Judgment. We can leave the spiritual welfare and what we have earned through our spiritual empire to somebody else to judge. In regard to material welfare the reason why Western Europe is the most prosperous area in many respects on the face of the earth is not merely because of a colonialist, imperialist tradition; it is because of mercantalist tradition; it is because all these are mother countries. A mother country means that the people go out and work for themselves in the world outside. I admit it has an ugly imperialist, colonialist face and dimension and that the two things went very much hand in hand. Leaving aside the British, if the French, the Germans, who got on late to the colonial scene, the Portuguese and the Duton mean anything in the world it is very argely because of the links they built up with distant countries in centuries past going back to the era of exploration in the 15th and 16th centuries. The same goes to a lesser degree for later arrivals on the scene like the Italians and the Belgians.

It is simply not reasonable for us to have this superstition about emigration, as though in some way the Irish were to be stared the necessities which every other people have had to face for the last half nillennium, as though in some way prosperity could be got here by sitting in some God forsaken townland, hoping that our TD could twist the arm of the IDA to throw up a bit of a factory at the end of your boreen. That is not the kind of thing Seán Lemass had in mind when he was talking about merchant adventurers 20 years ago. He did not mean that; he meant the kind of thing we are talking about here today.

I made a speech, of which this was a commonent, in Dublin last Friday. The kind of employment I had in mind when I mentioned emigration was precisely the kind of thing we are talking about today. I was not talking about exporting kitchen porters, chambermaids, hewers of wood and trawers of water. I was talking about making sure we were able to provide these services and sell them abroad. That means making sure that the necessary personnel are there to provide them. I was taken up by some of the press; not one of whom printed the few hundred words I had to say on this in their entirety, but all of whom felt able to editorialise on them, to pick out the sensitive bits, leaving out very carefully the context, the introductory remarks, the reservations and so forth. It seemed to them to be likely material for a swift telephone call to the indignation industry. Consequently, the leading representatives of the indignation industry — people who are in the business of giving out about other people, or of finding fault with their neighbours for not doing more for them — were telephoned by some newspaper people, and told that Deputy Kelly had said one of the cures for our difficulties was emigration. I was instantly accused of "preaching a gospel of despair"; but that is the sort of gospel that I have been listening to here since 10.40 this morning from people on all sides of the House. I would never again like to see the kind of situation that we had in the fifties.

I lived abroad for seven years, three years as a student and four years earning my living. I travelled back and forth on the mailboat like many other Irish emigrants though, unlike many of them, I was in a well paid job. I could see the kind of conditions they had to put up with because of not being able to get work at home. I do not think that any politician would wish to solve his own problems in that way. All I was advocating on Friday last was exactly what the Minister advocated this morning in his speech, that is, an expansion of services in the exports area which create much employment. Then, those people who go abroad would learn something worthwhile. A huge number of Irish families, including my own, have had uncles, aunts, parents and other relations who lived abroad for very long periods during their working life but who never complained about or regretted that situation. I have never regretted the years I spent abroad. I would be all the poorer for not having learned some of what I learned while I was away. The same is true of all those other people who go away with the exception of those who are forced into some humble and useless employment by reason of economic necessity. We never again wish to see people working at such a miserable level. What we are talking about today is something that the State would be very foolish to turn its back on. The Minister is very wise in promoting this development.

I wish the Minister every success and I take this opportunity of thanking his Department for the wonderful example they gave me by their dedication. I am grateful for the experience I had in the Department. I should like to say the same also of Córas Tráchtála, the agency who will be charged with carrying this policy into effect.

I should like first to have confirmation from the Minister regarding the international financial services in the designated service industry as referred to by him and, secondly, to ask if the Bill deals only with ——

This is not Question Time. We are on Second Stage so perhaps the Deputy would proceed to make his contribution. His questions may be answered later.

I welcome the general direction of this Bill but I am disappointed that it is not concerned with a very important area of the promotion of service industry and that is why I wished to have my questions answered at the outset. I am referring to the Export Promotion (Amendment) Bill, 1982, or the promotion by Córas Tráchtála of service industry and its location in this country.

Ireland has great potential for service industry such as international insurance, re-insurance operations, international banking and financial services, data processing and computer services, technical and consultative services and administrative headquarters of international companies. The Government and the service industry should seize the opportunities that are available now to attract this kind of industry. The potential in this area should be developed to the greatest extent possible. The Bill represents a first small step in that regard. Such development in isolation would not allow us to explore to the full the potential of the service industry or the potential in the export of our service industry unless further legislative changes are introduced as a matter of urgency. The main change that I consider necessary so far as this Bill is concerned is the extension to the service industry of the export tax concessions that are available to the manufacturing industry.

Unless the Minister is prepared to introduce this important development for the service industry, it will never reach its true potential. There are other areas, too, with which the Government should concern themselves since these are paramount to the proper development of the service industry. For instance, there is the area of telecommunications and communications generally. There is also the area of exchange control though there is some improvement in this regard. Those are two areas that need to be tickled urgently. We are losing out in relation to the areas of data processing, computer services and international financial markets. This is because our own satellite and data links will not come into speration until 1984. We are now using British link which is giving us a very poor service. That is why the Minister must urge the Government to ensure that our own links are brought into service as quickly as possible. We are losing potential international clients as a result of our failure to keep pace with other countries in this area.

An area of the service industry which has not been dealt with today but which I consider to be the most important in the context of this industry and the one in which there is the greatest potential for income is the area of international re-insurance, international insurance and international banking and finance. During my submission on the budget I gave a statistic which should put it perspective the importance of international re-insurance. I said that Ireland could attract 0.1 of 1 per cent of world wide re-insurance premiums and that this would eliminate our balance of payments deficit. In addition, it would provide prestigious employment and an inflow of overseas funds as well as a reduction in our need for foreign borrowing. We have made a start in this regard but we must develop further on those lines. We have an international re-insurance company who were set up in the past three years, assisted by Córas Tráchtála and the IDA. That company employ 75 people. It is only a beginning but there is great potential for the development of other such companies. I should like the Minister to tell us if this Bill is intended to bring about more of this kind of development, development which I consider to be the gravy train for growth.

Another area to be considered is international banking and finance. If Ireland could attract some of the major international banking institutions we would greatly enhance our reputation among international financiers. For instance, if we could attract the European headquarters of one of the main Japanese trading companies we could enhance our business and commercial reputation across Europe. These are the very important areas this Bill should be trying to attack, but I am not sure if these areas are even included. If not, the Bill is clearly lacking. As Deputy Kelly said we have never gone out to attract that kind of investment. If the Is of Man, Bermuda or such places, which are famous for this type of service industry, can attract the degree of investment which they have done over the years, then there is no reason why Ireland cannot do the same.

It is my belief that the Minister now has at his disposal a most important development area. There is a limit to the amount of manufacturing industry we can hope to attract from abroad, but in my view here is no end to the potential to attract service industry because Ireland has become one of the most attractive locations for service industry.

The necessary resources must be put at the disposal of the different agencies, such is Córas Tráchtála Teoranta, the IDA and so on, involved in the promotion and exportation of service industries. The IDA have a service promotion industry mit employing very hard working highly motivated people who are trying to develop this area. The Minister must also involve our educational institutions, particularly universities, in training graduates capable of filling the prestigious employment positions which are now available in service industry. In this respect there is an important role for agencies such as the Irish Management Institute to play.

I call on the Minister to bring together all the expertise at our disposal and to begin to examine the worldwide potential for the development of service industry. I ask him to consider a joint committee of this House to oversee the work in which this organisation would be involved. We must deal with this area as Seán Lemass dealt with the potential for manufacturing industry in the sixties. I am convinced the same potential exists for the development of service industries in the eighties.

I mentioned earlier Ireland's potential for the location and exportation of service industries. There is evidence that the traditional centres of commerce, such as London, Paris and Brussels are losing their attraction as a base for international commerce, mainly because of exhorbitant costs there. The development of our telecommunications system, exchange control regulations and education has made Ireland a very attractive location for major international banking, insurance and other service industry. The difficulties we had to overcome in the past have turned to our advantage mainly because of telecommunications developments throughout the world.

This Bill is the first step in the right direction. I urge the Minister to look very carefully at this area of service industry and to go along the lines I mentioned here today.

I support the spirit of this Bill which is long overdue and would like to comment on one aspect of our activities. In spite of the wonderful work done by the Irish Marketing Institute and Coras Tráchtála there seems to be a notable lack of penetration of foreign markets due to what seems to be a lack of awareness of a greater need for more intensive marketing surveys and research.

I was appalled recently to read in the Newsletter of the Confederation of Irish Industry the remarkable information that there is a huge resource of public supply contracts available within and outside the Common Market to Irish private industry which seems to have gone unnoticed. I will quote directly from the journal. It says:

Since 1978, Irish firms have had direct access to a European Public Supply contract market which exhibits many of the same attractive features as those of local state contracts. However, the European market for public contracts differs from the Irish market in one important respect: scale. A recent guide to Public Supply Contracts in Europe, published by the European Commission, estimated that public purchasers in European Community spend approximately £7 Billion sterling annually on supply contracts awarded through competitive bidding. In this context it is worth nothing that Ireland's gross domestic product in 1981 was IR£10.3 Billion. The balance of evidence indicates that this vast market remains virtually untapped by Irish business. This contention is based on the fact that notification of public supply contracts, open to competitive bidding are announced daily in the Supplement to the Official Journal of the European Communities: without this source, companies are unlikely to be aware of the many contracts announced each day—yet total circulation of the Supplement in the Republic of Ireland is currently only 27 copies per issue

That is a farcical situation. Only 27 companies are aware of the huge business resource available to them. It continues:

Public Supply contracts in the European Community provides information on the range and value of contracts awarded and outlines the various procedures adopted, information sources available and appeals procedures applicable to rejected tenders.

Public Contracts are subject to Community rules, the object of which are to liberalise the flow of trade within the Community. The most significant EEC legislation enforced since 1978 is Directive 77/62/EEC, which co-ordinates procedures for the award of public supply contracts. This supplements a similar directive on public works contracts enforced since 1972.

The main requirements of the directive, as subsequently amended, are as follows:

Public contracts must be published in the Official Journal of the EEC where the estimated value is in excess of either (1) IR£100,000 (reviewed annually), if awarded by Central or Federal Authorities, or (1) IR£139,000 if awarded by other authorities. In addition to the contracts awarded by public purchasers in the European Community, Public Supply Contracts in the European Community notes that contracts valued at approximately IR£20 Billion sterling annually are open to International competitive bidding from those non-Community Countries which are joint signatories with EEC to an agreement on liberalisation of Government purchases.

A vast market is open to Irish business, in particular to companies in the electronic and engineering fields. These have made a particularly high contribution to our balance of payments situation in recent times, due to the industrialisation programme. There is in Irish private industry an apparent ignorance of or reluctance to become involved in these huge readily available markets. Much of our research and development, and indeed the marketing thrust of many of our Irish subsidiaries, is carried out by the multi-national parent companies, but that is not so in every case. There have been notable achievements by Howmedica of Limerick who have made asignificant break through into international markets.

It is not good enough for our private enterprises to call on the Government to make these facilities available to them by way of Córas Tráchtála. Their own institute is critical of them, implicitly, in saying that the information is there through their own resources at remarkably inexpensive rates and that they should use it. I want to bring home the need of Irish industry to have a much higher awareness of the need for market research and penetration. We are an open economy, not gifted with fossil resources, other than natural gas coming from Cork which will help us in the future. We must rely on our own indigenous resources and the Danes have shown us the way. They, like ourselves, have no great wealth of fossil resources, have a population of 5 million in a country half the size of Ireland and yet emerge as the tenth wealthiest nation in terms of gross national product. This is due to their use of their own resources in education and training in market research. One of the areas in which they have made a huge penetration on a world scale is public supply contracts for engineering.

I visited Denmark last May on business for Limerick Corporation, to view Danish developments in incineration. They are making use of an unending resource. Fossil resources such as coal, oil and iron will be subject, at some stage, to the law of diminishing returns. They resemble a bank in which one has £1 million on deposit but where, if one keeps using up the money, nothing will be left.

The Danes realised that rubbish or refuses an unending resource. Wherever there are people, it will be there. They developed an incineration process, are now the chief suppliers to the United Nations and have secured very valuable contracts throughout Europe and in places as far distant as Seoul, the capital of Korea. Four years ago they put a system of incineration into their second largest city, Aarhus which is twice the size of Cork and as a result there is now not enough refuse to feed a rat. They have completely eliminated their refuse problem, have heated the whole city using every form of refuse, to such a degree that, within four years of installation, last year they made 12 million kronor profit, or approximately £2 million in our currency. This is an example of an area into which we might penetrate. As a trade union official, I have been very much involved in the mid-west region with the subsidiaries of multi-national companies. I was delighted to learn recently, not having been previously aware of it, that the quality of our engineering graduates is amongest the highest in the world. Multi-national companies who employed our engineering graduates — people like Analog Devices. Westinghouse and some of the major multinationals — were absolutely thrilled with the quality of graduate emerging. This is where our future lies. Everything depends upon our market penetration. If we do not maximise the use of our resources, we are like someone living on a mountain top who does not know what is happening in the valley.

Wonderful work is being done in places like the NIHE on the whole question of graduate training in marketing through the IMI and Córas Tráchtála. However, that is not enough. The companies must get into the scene. There is a saying that you get nothing for nothing in Borrisokane, but you get it in no other place, either. Nobody owes us a living. If we do not take these opportunities we will be in serious trouble. There is a seanfhocal which says: Is cuma nó muc fear gan seift. This is true of us as a nation as it is of an individual. Another seanfhocal says: Muna mbíonn ach gabhar agat, bí i lár an anonaigh leis.

I urge Irish companies to wake themselves up and get into a scene in which we have the capacity of being amongst the foremost. Ours is the best educated population ever in our history and there is no reason why we should not use that education in the only real way possible for us, getting into the world market place and using our present under-utilised advantages.

I unreservedly welcome this Bill. There will be no difficulty on either side of the House in accepting it, even though I detect a lack of appreciation of its potential among some of the Deputies here. What we are dealing with here is a different market from that about which some speakers before me have spoken. We are not talking about the old form of trading amongst merchants, of trying to keep up with camel trains. This is the 1980s when the concentration on world markets is in the area of high technology. In America at present 60 per cent of the working population is employed in the communications and high technology fields. This is the area about which we are speaking. Conditions referred to earlier do not really apply any more in the international market place. I agree with Deputy Prendergast that we are ready to undertake this assault on world markets. We may be a little behind but I am delighted that this recent budget — as the Chief Executive of the Smurfit Group said at the CII Conference last week — constitutes a start. We have now got our house in order. Coming so soon after the budget the Minister is making a tremendous contribution to Irish business and employment by the introduction of these two Bills which I do not think will experience any difficulty in their passage. It is appropriate that there should be before the House the Insurance (Amendment) Bill because many businesses endeavouring to export their goods and services on the world market are experiencing great difficulty obtaining credit, endeavouring to be paid and indeed to obtain bonding. Irish companies are going to London to get bonding. They are being subjected to tremendous strain having to pay out huge sums of money before doing any business in order to get the banks to insure them. I hope this Bill will help our companies in that area.

I would not under-estimate world markets, particularly Middle Eastern and African ones which I know have great potential for this country. I would not under-estimate the difficulty in our companies gaining business there. It must be remembered that the whole world wants to deal with the oil countries, that the whole world is trying to deal with Saudi Arabia which seems to be favourably disposed to Ireland at present. Because of the recent fluctuation in oil prices Saudi Arabia's expenditure in relation to all of its projects has dropped 25 per cent. Coupled with that fact there has been a large growth in contractors and businesses on the market. Nevertheless what we need to bring to those markets are service, quality and price. However, price is not always a factor. Our labour is now too expensive for a lot of those markets and much of the labour in those markets is taken from the Philippines. However, there is a lot of goodwill shown Irish businessmen in the Middle East. There are many reasons for this but one is the trading experience of some of our pioneers who went out in recent decades. Another is the friendliness shown us by these countries and also the genuinely high standard of our engineers, technicians and so on and the service we give.

We receive a great deal of support from Córas Tráchtála. I wonder how thoroughly do Córas Tráchtála explain themselves to the Irish businessman, to the Irish market, to the Irish company. They have always seemed to me to be there for the large company or for the exporter. There are two areas in which I think Irish businesses and businessmen can benefit through the services both of Córas Tráchtála and the IDA who always seem to be acting abroad on behalf of the businessman at home. They carry out the work abroad on his behalf. Very often the Irish businessman does not get a chance of going out to see for himself what things are like on the ground and, very often, he is placed at the mercy of the performance both of Córas Tráchtála and the IDA. Some Members of the House may not have had experience of this. But it is very unsatisfactory to have somebody dealing on behalf of one halfway round the world, hoping that one's case is being put forward properly.

I think of an example of a company dealing with another in Calfornia through the IDA. There had been very little happening over a period of six to nine months and, on the Irish businessman investigating, he was informed by the IDA that the American company with which he was dealing was a very small one, that the IDA had not really pushed because they were not recommending that company. When the Irish company concerned contacted the business with which they were dealing they discovered that the IDA had been contacting them by telephone from Chicago. If a businessman goes out from here he will make sure to establish personal contact and know exactly for himself what is the position on the ground.

Communications in that respect could be improved. Perhaps the Minister would consider examining the amount of expenditure of both Córas Tráchtála and the IDA on travel and expenses. Of course it is necessary to have offices sited around the world. It is necessary also to have travelling executives. But that opportunity should be passed on to members of companies here who will then gain experience from travelling abroad and from dealing with their foreign counterpart on the ground. After all it must be remembered that they are the people who are investing their money, who know best their own products and how best to sell them. Perhaps more help should be given them in this respect, especially the emergent or small businessman. We know now that in the high technology areas one does not need to have a very large company to get off the ground. Very often these people do not have the resources available to them to make trips abroad. This is an area worth investigating.

I was glad the Minister highlighted the areas he proposed investigating initially. We have a lot to offer in the field of high technology. There is now a certain "payback" filtering through to us from the years we spent investing money, giving grants to foreign companies to set up business in Ireland, when all we got initially was the employment content. Now that investment is beginning to pay off. The Bills are being introduced at the right time. We have now highly educated technical people ready to take advantage of all the opportunities obtaining. What should now come into play is the ability and experience of the Irish man who hereofore had been working for everybody else in the world, for foreign companies, and who has had a long and unfortunate tradition of emigration, who is known practically in every country in the world. Now he has the expertise to back that up and, when he goes into the market place, he does so with a distinct advantage. He is at home in most board rooms in the world and has the ability to communicate well with foreign executives and socialise with them. Because he has great ability to laugh and to enjoy himself that effectively spreads itself to business people abroad, and he is a better salesman in many cases.

There are many ingredients involved in this exchange of technology. Deputy Kelly said he would like to see a faculty or indeed an entire university set up abroad. We have the ability and the capacity to do that. Our universities have expanded. In recent years, as well as the universities, we have had extensions of third level education so that in addition to the academic side people have become very concerned with commercial markets — everything is geared towards getting into business. As an example, we have the NIHE in Limerick and in Dublin and we have Shannon Development which has developed innovation centres throughout the country. That development is helping to explore markets, to do market research, to find outlets for graduates who wish to go into different fields of activity. It is helping to find businesses for those people wishing to invest.

In Third World countries in the Middle East and Africa there is enormous potential and I agree with the Minister's selection of those areas. In the Middle East, in Saudi Arabia and in Africa, there are universities very willing to organise joint ventures with Irish companies or Irish universities in the setting-up of institutions. Take for example the university of Riyadh in Saudi Arabia which wishes to set up a solar energy department for which we would be quite capable of supplying the expertise and the design information. We would be capable of exchanging the technology with that country in that effort. We could bring their people here to teach them English and to train their lecturers. There is great advantage in tying up with these institutions and universities on a consultancy basis.

In Algeria, a petro-chemical industry was set up by a US university and out of that a relationship developed on consultancy, through which they continue to exchange technology and information with that country.

We could do that in the same way in the Middle East and in Africa. In the field of semi-conductor and solar energy we have developed great expertise. Recently I had the pleasure of going to University College Cork to see Professor Eriksson's institute which should be coming into production in March. One project involves a farm which has been run by solar energy.

In that matter, there is great opportunity in the Middle East for semi-conductor technology, even in the oil countries like Saudi Arabia where they can have microwave stations to supply all the power to mountain villages and towns. The same applies to Africa where they can use the sun, and therefore microwave stations can be set up throughout that Continent at very little running cost. We can supply that kind of expertise, and are actually tendering to do it. Companies are operating from different parts of the country, and great credit is due to them. I hope help will be given to them through these Bills. A company in Sligo employ 80 engineers who operate entirely from there. They have spent the last decade doing innumerable projects in Libya and Iraq. Other companies here have a few hundred engineers who have spent a lot of their time working in different countries in Africa. Therefore, these Bills are very appropriate. We will be in a better position to take advantage of those markets, even in the field of construction.

For instance, the McInerney company have been building in Saudi Arabia for a number of years. That country use that company because of the high standard of their work, because of the service they give and the keenness of their prices. Once a company become established, those countries continue to use them, but they do not continue to use companies which try to rip them off and take advantage of their lack of knowledge of the market place, as happened in the early years after the oil boom in 1973. That is one of the reasons why Ireland is considered favourably by those countries.

Recently I conducted some Middle East people around the country and one of the places we visited was the Dairy Science Institute at UCC. That institute was built about two or three years ago at a cost of £5 million or £6 million. One of the foremost experts in this field in the world, an American, said on this tour that it is the finest dairying institute in the world. That technology is there in the heart of dairying country, and why should we not be able to export that industry, that technology, to emerging countries? I know such a possibility is being considered in regard to one of the Middle East countries. We have had some small successes with An Bord Bainne in Saudi Arabia. We have had successes in farm programmes with Masstock. We are in a great position to take advantage of such markets.

I would stress again that the man in the small emerging business, which will be the backbone of the country if it is not that already, needs help and I am afraid the IDA and Córas Tráchtála are not geared towards him and he is not being given a look-in. He needs help because sometimes he cannot afford to take advantage of exploring world markets. An example was given by the Chief Executive of Smurfits at the CII conference last week. He wished to get a certain product supplied to his company and they went to the US and met the parent company and came back to set up a small company in Templemore which employs 25 people. Smurfit do not need that, they would have been glad if somebody else had done it, but the small businessman would not have the wherewithal to do that. Therefore, more help should be given, and better access, to Irish businessmen, and Córas Tráchtála and the IDA should promote services to such businesses.

In the field of telecommunications and micro-electronics we are very well poised to take advantage of what is available. I referred to the innovation centres set up by Shannon Development through the IDA. They provide facilities for small businesses. They provide such facilities at reduced costs. They help to find markets for such business. They encourage them in every way and as soon as they get on their feet they make place for other emerging businesses. I should like to see those innovation centres greatly expanded because they give employment everywhere they are set up. They give opportunity to graduates and people who want to start their own business. The executives of the IDA and CTT have gained a tremendous amount of experience from travelling abroad and they are in a unique position to help anyone starting a business. These small businesses, if encouraged, can employ many people, would enable us to become a self-sufficient race and would eat very largely into the unemployment problem without any real extra cost to ourselves.

Our embassies provide great help to our businessmen and I found this to be the case particularly in Greece and Saudi Arabi. I was really impressed and humbled by the amount of work the embassies and the consulates are doing. Many ordinary businessmen do not realise that a huge market is available if they knew how to find it. This is an area about which I feel very strongly, having spent ten years looking for help in this area and not getting very much of it.

The Minister spoke about invisible earnings and at the recent CII conference it was stated that our invisible earnings are worth seven times more than our export. We should bring in these Bills as a matter or urgency so that we can take further advantage of the market situation and of the spin-off from technology. Ireland is very well placed in the high technology field and it has known expertise in construction, engineering and engineering design which is in demand in emerging countries and from which huge amounts of money may be derived.

Deputy Kelly said that we could not operate successfully from Ireland in markets such as Singapore and Zimbabwe but in my opinion Ireland is uniquely situated to tackle the world market. Shannon Free Airport is the ideal base for dealing with the USA, South America, Europe, the Middle East and the Far East it is very easy to communicate with these areas from Shannon and there is great potential there for the expansion of business and industry. Some companies are doing so at present.

CTT could help by planning itineraries for businessmen travelling abroad and paying some of their expenses. I know they are doing this to an extent and money spent in this way would certainly yield returns. Nobody can sell a product better than the person who produces it.

I know of a recent instance where a company submitted a project to the National Board for Science and Technology and they presented the project to the EEC on behalf of the company. It was the only project in its area in all of Europe to be put before the EEC, and the NBST were of the opinion that they would secure the research and development contract. However, it was rejected. The man who developed this project found it extraordinary that he was not allowed to make the presentation and could not even be present. He had spent 20 years working on it and he is an acclaimed expert. When I raised the matter with the NBST they told me that this is the way the system works. The day before the presentation the man who developed the project rang to advise the presenter that he did not have enough information submitted with his proposal, to which the presenter retorted that he had submitted a 40-page booklet describing everything. The NBST went unprepared to the EEC and he did not get the contract.

We take a lot for granted in the IDA, CTT and the NBST. I understand the IDA have recently carried out an internal examination but these bodies should be examined by outsiders who can look at them objectively, ask what they are doing, see how they are spending their money and examine their approach. These undertakings cost an enormous amount of money and they enjoy facilities which are far superior to those in this House. We work in rabbit hutches by comparison. They have luxurious offices and can discuss their affairs in board rooms. It is correct that they should have these facilities. People coming into this House are certainly not impressed by the appalling office conditions. I wish we could have similar standards to those in semi-State bodies. I should, however, like to see a report on their effectiveness and efficiency.

Deputy Yates mentioned this matter during his speech last week and he said that the IDA have grown so big that they have their own public relations department. The IDA can do a good public relations job in selling itself to the Irish people and explain that it is doing a good job. In effect the IDA is saying that they are doing a great job. It is like me standing in the Chamber to announce that I am doing a great job. Somebody else should be saying that.

These Bills will reverse an old trend of Elizabethan days. In those years one shipload of produce from the Far and Middle East was enough to keep the economy going for about ten years. Inflation did not exist then and labour was cheap. It may be a good thing that the Industrial Revolution passed us by because in Britain with their enormous population they have great difficulty in trying to turn their economy around whenever it goes into recession. Yesterday I pointed out that we have a flexible economy, a small population and lots of ability. We have, as has been stated repeatedly, the youngest population in Europe, and some respected politicians have been describing that as our biggest asset in the last ten years. However, we sat back and did not make any provision for the emergence of that young population and left them almost in a state of hopelessness. We did not plan for the emergence of those people with the result that they do not have much opportunity even though they may have third level qualifications. I do not wish to give the impression that everybody should go to a third level institution but we have a duty to provide an opportunity for our youth. Members who have teenage children or who have any dealings with children about to leave school will realise that because of their lack of experience of talking to adults or of the outside world they take what they are told to their hearts. It has been easy to ignore them for years and that is still happening. We did not make any plans for them although we knew about them.

We described our young population as our biggest asset but having made that statement we ignored them completely. We now have an opportunity of reversing that, of using that asset, of involving and employing such people in jobs throughout the country. That can be done through innovation centres in different counties. I applaud Members who continue to point out that everything happens in Dublin. In 1983 there is no need to concentrate on Dublin. I have pointed out how ideal it is to run an international operation from Limerick or surrounding counties and I have given an example of an export company that employs 80 engineers in Sligo. There is no need for people to have to leave the towns and counties they love to go to Dublin seeking employment. It is possible to look after Dublin while at the same time catering for counties like Donegal. We have a small population and a big market. Our young people are well poised in the areas of high technology and telecommunications. We are now manufacturing computers and Middle East countries are anxious to get technicians, engineers and fitters for ship-building yards. In fact, they are asking for everything we have available.

We have an international airline and fully equipped airports. Ireland could be regarded as an ideal centre to tackle markets in America, Europe and the Far East. We have not exploited the seas around us.

The Deputy should stay off the sea and keep to the land. We are dealing with exports and not sea fishing.

I mentioned the seas in passing and I did not intend to go into detail about them.

The Deputy should come back to land.

One word is not much of a transgression. We did not exploit the seas around us but we are now in position to do that. With respect, we must go over the seas to export. I have no mentioned countries like China because it is inaccessible for many business concerns but CTT, the IDA and the Government should make an effort to make it accessible before Americans, German and others take over the markets there. We seem to arrive late in most cases. It is more effective if the principals travel to sell their own products.

The Minister said that the structure of international trade in services has changed considerably under the impact of the emergence of some oil exporting countries as large importers of labour and know-how and I agree with that statement. There are greater export earning opportunities for those countries if they acquire the skills. We need to be prepared to take advantage of that situation. We must produce the quality goods and be competitive. We must function without protection or behind the cloak of tariff barriers except where there is unfair competition. The clothing industry is suffering from unfair competition because produce is being imported. In dealing with that problem the industry must also pay high labour costs. Unless that industry is helped it will not be able to export. There are, I agree, hopes for economic advancement in export growth. This is vitally necessary if we are to increase growth above the 2.7 per cent required of us before 1987. We must take advantage of the markets that are there and so it is definite advance to move as adumbrated in this Bill from the field of goods and merchandise. There was restriction in the past but now we are going into services. That is an advance I applaud.

Hitherto there were restrictions and legal restraints on our export performance. These naturally affected our export earnings. From that point of view I welcome this advance. The Minister stated that immediate and substantial prospects are perceived for infrastructural construction, health and education facilities, organisational and technical consultancy, and training. In addition, I believe there should be a high priority study, the recommendations of which should be published. I am glad he has decided that he can designate by order. That would certainly be the quickest way of doing things because it will save him coming back to the House. The Minister can make decisions taking into consideration market trends.

I am not inclined to agree with the Minister when he says that the experience of Córas Tráchtála to date has shown that its structure and systems are eminently suitable for assisting all exporters whether of goods or services. I would recommend that before launching into this area Córas Tráchtála should be re-examined objectively to see if it is capable and freely available to people. I am not sure that it is. For instance, in the area of tendering there does seem to be room for improvement. Small businesses do not have the resources, the facilities or the personnel to prepare documents and very often documentation is the key to winning projects. If the documentation is not properly prepared the tenderer is in trouble. This is an area in which Córas Tráchtála could be of great assistance. There are plenty of experts and the help of these experts would be very valuable if made available to small businesses.

The Minister also said that Córas Tráchtála will monitor the overall environment, internal and international, for factors likely to inhibit Irish exports of services and to promote the removal of constraints where these are identified. The intention in that general statement is excellent. If businesses are caught out — this is something that happens when people are exporting — the body will be there to help them. Remember, this is a high risk area. This is probably one of the chief reasons for the introduction of this Bill. I know businesses which risked practically everything trying to break into these markets. Some lost everything. Very often they had to invest capital out of proportion to the possible return in order to try to win the contract. The laws in some countries are not as reliable perhaps as the laws here and in European countries generally. From that point of view this Bill is very opportune. It will induce a new confidence in exporters because it will show that the Government and the country in general are behind them.

Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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