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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 19 Apr 1983

Vol. 341 No. 6

Order of Business .

: The arrangements for business today are as follows: by agreement it is proposed to suspend Standing Orders until 7 p.m. today to allow statements to be made by Members on taxation. No Member will be allowed to make more than one statement. Private Members' Business will be Item No. 24.

: Are the arrangements for this evening's debate agreed?

, Dún Laoghaire): I should like to refer to the debate on taxation. In that regard I thank the Opposition Chief Whip for co-operating in this. It is an extension of what we tried before and the reason for my interjection is to ask for the co-operation of the House because we do not have an agreed list of speakers. The idea is to permit as many Members as possible participate and in order to do that we appeal to all Members to take into account that others are anxious to contribute. If Members confined their contributions to approximately 15 minutes it would be a great help to enable as many Members as possible take part.

: I support the Government Chief Whip on this. We are agreed to ask Members to limit their contributions to no more than 15 minutes. That is not an order of the House because there is a suspension of Standing Orders. Our Members will co-operate with the principles of the debate.

: I should like to ask the Taoiseach when it is intended to take the Committee Stage of the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill?

: Next week.

: When will the Irish version of the proposed new wording be circulated?

: I cannot give an exact date but it will be in the near future.

: Do I take it that it will be circulated in adequate time for the debate?

: I should like to ask the Taoiseach when the Finance Bill will be published and made available to Members. When will the Second Stage of that Bill be taken in the House?

: The Finance Bill will be published next week. It had been, as the House will be aware, our intention to publish in this week but the House will be aware of the volume of representations, primarily from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, but not exclusively, with regard to matters of tax evasion and avoidance. The Government are anxious to include as many measures as are possible and desirable in the Bill. That has held up the Bill coming before the Government. It is now before the Government and being discussed. The publication will be next week rather than this week with a view to initiating the discussion in the Dáil the following week. We are anxious to ensure that there is adequate time for discussion in the Dáil and we will be taking account, therefore, in fixing the date for the by-election, of the need to do that in a manner that will leave as much time as possible for the Dáil to discuss it, bearing in mind that the Bill will be published rather later than originally intended.

: In the first instance, the Taoiseach will appreciate it will be very important in terms of stabilising elements in the national economy that we get this Bill fairly soon so that we will see an end to the statements from Government Ministers which imply various directions in the Finance Bill. It is Important that we have the definitive text before us and on that basis will the Taoiseach state if the House will have at least one week after publication——

: The Taoiseach recognises that it is important that the Bill is published in a definitive and final form so that the degree of apprehension, lack of confidence and instability that is around the country will be terminated.

: I cannot agree with that part but I agree it is important that the Bill is published in such a way as to allow time for the Opposition to study what is necessarily a complex measure before the debate takes place. It is important that there should be adequate time for that debate and we are working towards that end even, as I have said, to the point of taking that into account in fixing the date of the by-election.

: Does the Taoiseach propose to make a statement in regard to the action taken by the Government last weekend with the British Government to secure the temporary release of the Gillespie sisters to attend the funeral of their father? Will the Taoiseach indicate in a statement, if he proposes to make one, if he believes that——

: That does not arise on the Order of Business.

: —— this will result in a deterioration in Anglo-Irish relations?

: The Deputy is being disorderly.

: Does the Taoiseach propose to make a statement?

: That does not arise. I am calling on Deputy Lenihan.

: I should like to know when the Taoiseach proposes to make time available in the Dáil to deal with an amendment to Article 28.4.2º, a matter which is pertinent to the present? Perhaps the Taoiseach is not familiar with the Article and for that reason I will quote it for him.

: The matter is serious and I advise the Taoiseach not to be laughing.

: I do not think this arises on the Order of Business.

: On a point of order, it is not fair to the House if the Ceann Comhairle offers an opinion on something he has not heard.

: I am making the point that it is not relevant on the Order of Business to introduce some suggested amendment to the Constitution or some suggested legislation that has not been promised or mentioned on the Order of Business.

: It is pertinent to the debate that will take place today.

: The Deputy will appreciate that Standing Orders were suspended to permit the debate to take place.

: The relevant part of the Constitution reads:

The Government shall meet and act as a collective authority, and shall be collectively responsible for the Departments of State administered by the members of the Government.

Recent events have made it necessary, if we are to have consistent Government here, that that part of the Constitution be deleted in view of the attitude adopted by the Tánaiste, the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach who presided over the confusion engendered ——

: The Deputy should resume his seat; he is out of order.

: Will the Taoiseach inform the House, in view of his commitment to better planning of Dáil business, of the Government's legislative programme for the Dáil session commencing today? Will the Taoiseach inform the House when the new Bill arising out of the report of the task force on child care will be introduced? Will it be introduced in the current session?

: I would require notice of the specific question. The best estimate I can give, without such notice, is that the Bill will be introduced in the autumn. That relates to the specific question. On the general question, I would prefer not to answer that ad hoc without notice but we are preparing a legislative programme for this session and there is a range of reforming legislation required which we are anxious to get through. I would be prepared to deal with that, with notice, in due course.

: Will the Taoiseach let the House know in the next few days, or as soon as possible, what the programme is for the full session? We should have an overview of where we are going for the next 12 weeks in this session.

: I do not think there is a precedent for that arrangement. We do not have a Queen's speech in this country but through the Whips we would wish to indicate the legislation we would want to get through and discussions will proceed in the normal way. Given that this session leads to the Summer Recess, it is important that the Opposition should have an indication of the legislation we have in mind so as to help the planning of business. We would be anxious to co-operate in that.

: Before I call Deputy De Rossa, who has been offering for some time, I would remind the House that we are eroding the time of a limited debate.

: Regarding the Children's Bill, I understood from previous Dáil debates that this was regarded as a matter of urgency by the Government and that it would be before the House during this session. If my memory is correct, that task report is well over a year old.

: On that point ——

: We cannot have a Committee Stage debate on a matter raised on the Order of Business.

: The Bill was circulated and I cannot see how it could take until autumn. Perhaps the Minister would clarify that point.

: No such Bill was circulated. A memorandum was circulated to various Government Departments. I have withdrawn that memorandum in view of questions relating to the age of responsibility and so on. The memorandum will be resubmitted to Government within the next few weeks following consultations with the Department of Justice and the Department of Education which have been completed. The Bill itself ——

: We cannot have a speech.

(Interruptions.)

: The memorandum also includes a draft Bill. The Government do not seem to know what is going on.

: I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the pending imprisonment of householders for non-payment of ground rent.

: The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.

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