: I would like, as I gather most of the speakers today have done, to welcome the introduction of the Criminal Justice (Community Service) Bill as the first step in our serious tackling of the problems of increasing crime. It was significant that at last Monday's Barrettstown meeting this ranked with the economic issues as one of the major issues for which the Government would develop long-term, short-term and medium-term plans. I see this as the first phase in a radical and extensive overhaul of the system of justice in the country which should within three years lead to an improvement in the laws, the court system and, hopefully, a significant improvement in the level of crime. I see this Bill as a particularly flexible element of that whole programme which I expect to see included within the next year in an extensive Children's Bill, which will look at the whole question of child care and child custody in the case of child criminals, tackle the problem of children's courts, consider the age of criminal responsibility and set up for the first time in modern Ireland proper and adequate procedures to deal with this growing area of crime and young criminals. Those criminals are getting younger in recent years.
I see another element of that attack as the long overdue improvement in the powers of the Garda Síochána and some changes in the laws which have been accepted as necessary by the two previous Governments and which we know are before the Department of Justice at the moment. I am optimistic, now that the first phase of the economic activity has been got out of the way for this year, that the Government will be able to move rapidly to bring about reform in these areas and that the commitment of community policing, first enunciated by the present Minister for Transport, Deputy Jim Mitchell, supported by the Garda sergeants, will also become a reality. When this whole package is implemented, developed and established it will generally improve our facilities to deal with this growing problem, and bring back the sense of confidence in the Government and in law and order which has been badly shattered in the last few years and has left people feeling very unprotected.
I disagree with the previous speaker that we have been approaching the problem with kid gloves in the last few years. We have totally failed to tackle the problem. The largest area of growing crime is among children. Our children's legislation dates back 80 years and is totally inadequate and unsuited to deal with the current problem. Child criminals are tagged on to the normal criminal system and are dealt with in an environment totally unsuited to their needs or unlikely to lead them to change their ways.
The most common resource available to judges is the use of probation. We have not given them the facilities to allow any other sanctions. We had the experience of a totally erratic Judiciary, the most outrageous example of which was in relation to a recent case where young offenders were involved.
This first step should be followed by a Children's Bill, improvement of the Garda Síochána and the development of community policing. If this was done the vigilante movement, which exists in a dangerous form, could be harnessed into a structured and ordered form and be of immense benefit to the community. This should be undertaken speedily.
The Bill is a new approach for us and deals with sanctions which may be imposed on people found guilty of various crimes. The type of crimes for which it could be used will be limited. We can learn from the experience of other countries. Such a Bill has proved to be successful in Britain where it was introduced not without hitches. It has been successful in Germany and other countries. One of its most attractive features is that it gives an opportunity to an offender for constructive activity in the community in a way which does not interfere with his normal training or employment rather than incarcerating him in an institution which would perhaps encourage his criminal tendencies. The experience in Germany has been that only a tiny percentage of offenders who have done community service work commit further crime. It compares with the juvenile liaison officer scheme where it is found that the use of the scheme results in a low level of recurrence of crime. If an offender is dealt with in any other way, such as serving a prison sentence or being involved with the courts, the tendency to return to crime is significantly higher.
I welcome the Bill because the experience in other countries shows that it works. When an offender is charged in a police station and later in court and put into an institution it is commonly accepted that he will meet with hardened criminals and instead of being rehabilitated is confirmed in his criminal techniques. He is removed from the community, cut off from constructive pursuits and important relationships such as family, friends and so on. The sanction of community service work will not be allowed to interfere with a person's employment or education. Admittedly it will not be suitable for a certain number of prisoners. Involvement in the scheme is voluntary. A person who commits a crime must accept the use of this method of sentencing. This is an important element in that the person must make a choice. That involves the criminal in a first positive act. In drug-related crimes the experience has been that people who choose the therapeutic community of Coolmine as an alternative to imprisonment have a high success rate in dealing with their problem. I can understand that the voluntary element will be controversial and people will ask who will choose it. The alternative sanction is such that a person who wishes to be rehabilitated will not choose it. The experience of the Coolmine community would lead one to believe that a well ordered community service operation could be nothing but therapeutic and constructive for those who engage in it.
Other speakers referred to community involvement. This is to be welcomed. It is undoubtedly a challenge to the community. There will be initial fears and worries about its use but these must be overcome. It is encouraging that the trade unions have given a cautious welcome to the Bill and are willing to meet the Minister. They would undoubtedly be represented on any committee dealing with the supervision of the Bill. It is encouraging that they have opened their arms to the Bill as their co-operation is vital. As Deputy Owen specifically outlined, it is very important that the community as a whole would also open itself to the possibilities of this Bill and look for ways in which they could co-operate for mutual benefit.
In my own constituency we have had the experience of the existing work programme for prisoners, which is on a different level and involves prisoners who are in closed units being released to do this kind of work. They built a scout hall which could not have been provided by the community because of lack of funds, even with grants from the State. There would have been no such facility available for the young people of the area without this programme. The quality of work was exceptional and a very good relationship developed between the local community and those involved in the scheme. This kind of activity is so different from the average prison experience and the possibility of extending it to persons probaly involved in their first minor crimes is very welcome. In relation to that scheme, it was especially encouraging to be at the informal opening of this hall and to see prisoners attending, some of whom had been released at that stage and some who were still serving sentences. Everyone benefits from this type of development. In relation to that, it is obviously extremely important that different types of work programmes are established involving community associations, residents' associations, hospitals, semi-State and State organisations who could develop projects suitable for involving young offenders in community services. Adequate staff should be made available in the probation service to supervise and order them.
I am very interested in some of the examples the Minister gave this morning of persons with a drink problem working in homes for alcoholics. Surely a lesson would be learned by a young alcoholic if he saw the long-term effect of alcoholism on other adults. That sort of imaginative, constructive approach to crime is long overdue.
The other element that is extremely important is that lives are being interfered with. Instead of interfering with their careers, homes and marriages because of one mistake, we should adopt this constructive approach which minimally interferes with their lives but which involves an element of retribution and constructive punishment. Anyone involved in dealing with social problems in our society have found this to be the best approach.
I hope the Minister will outline on Committee Stage the thinking behind the limitation on age. The young offender from 12 to 16 would particularly benefit from this approach and it would be very much more suitable for that age group to be engaged in that kind of work. I would like the Minister to reply to that and to consider whether the age could be reduced because, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, this problem of crime committed by the very young is extending and tendencies to drug taking and associated crime are constantly moving down to a younger age group. I anticipate that the age of criminal responsibility will be looked at in the new Children's Bill and there may be changes, but it will still involve the use of this or a similar Bill to deal with persons who are involved in crimes in this age group. If there are reasons for this limitation I would like to hear them. I regret the exclusion of a younger age group as they would benefit from constructive intervention in their lives.
The importance of tackling this problem in our community in a new way is an answer to the growing spiral of crime, especially in our cities. Deputy Brady referred to the crime figures released last week. We must all sit up and take notice of them as they are startling figures, especially in relation to Dublin city. Like Deputy Brady, I represent a Dublin north side constituency where the unusual feature of the last three or four years has been the way in which criminal activities have turned on the community itself. One tended in the past to have crimes of property directed against communities, groups and individuals with a great deal of property. I am not saying that any community deserves to have its property attacked but it is particularly sad to note the development in the last number of years where the poorer communities are being destroyed and attacked by their own people and the little they have is being eroded by the activities of vandals and criminals.
Deputy Owen referred to this problem and said that many young people do not fully appreciate what they are doing. I am aware that this is an explanation, but there is a double responsibility on the Government to maintain a firm commitment to certain levels of order for the good of the community and the individual, those who are suffering the crime and those who are perpetrating it. We must also take the kind of action necessary to break this cycle and try to understand why certain young people, although they are still in a minority, turn their energy to destructive purposes. We must look to the family environment from which they emerge. The family is not always to blame — there will always be the chronic offender — but many problems stem from perhaps one family in an area who are known to be responsible for crimes in the area. At present society only steps in either to lock them up or to impose various sanctions on them. The Bill is particularly attractive because society and the law will intervene in a constructive way which will offer the person an alternative pattern on which to model themselves instead of imposing a sentence on them which involves locking them up with those who have more developed criminal tendencies.
If this Bill is added to and strengthened by the recommendations of the task force on child care and a new Children's Bill comes before the Dáil in the next session or two, this will be a very important new direction for our laws and our courts. Society has failed and we as a Government have failed to deal with this problem over the years. It is extremely important that this quite original — in Irish terms — flexible and positive Bill gets maximum co-operation from the community and from the forces of law and order. It offers to our judges an alternative to the extensively overcrowded facilities which limit them to the only possible options of fines or the application of the Probation Act. The message must go out to the community that this is one of many proposals that this Government will be making in the whole job of tackling crime in this city and in the country as a whole. This is the first step, an important one which makes a great deal of sense on many levels. It is cheap, constructive and of more value to the individual and to the community in dealing with the type of criminal that it will suit than any other options which are available to the courts at present or which in any other proposed changes would be made available.
I am happy to welcome the proposals as outlined by the Minister for Justice. I repeat that I would like his comments at a later stage on the age limit and the possibility of extending it downwards. Again I support Deputy Owens' plea to be more involved in the community in particular. This Bill should be given an enthusiastic reception and it should be made to work to the maximum benefit possible to our community.
