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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Apr 1983

Vol. 341 No. 11

Supplementary Estimates, 1983 . - Vote 41: Transport (Resumed) .

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1983, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Transport, including certain services administered by that Office, for a cost alleviation payment and for payment of certain grants and a grant-in-aid.
—(Minister for Transport.)

: Before Question Time, I made a number of points which I will summarise briefly. I argued the need for an integrated transport policy, combining road, rail and bus and suggesting that our cities were grinding to a halt in the absence of such a plan. I highlighted the extent of the mounting losses in Córas Iompar Éireann and I pointed out that the annual loss was the equivalent of 10,000 jobs per annum being created by the IDA. I proposed an increasing amount of privatisation of CIE services and suggested that the Minister might use some imaginative thinking in that regard. I asked the Minister to implement, as a matter of some urgency, the McKinsey Report, or at least those elements of it which can be pushed through quickly. I used this debate to suggest to the Government the need to think out clearly the future role of State firms and State companies in the development of an economic philosophy. I questioned whether the future growth in capital wealth and jobs lay in the direction of State companies. I concluded by asking the Minister who was going to create the wealth — the public firms, the private firms or a mixture — and who is doing the planning in this regard. I questioned the role of CIE in that.

I asked the Minister to look at the proposals which I sent him recently in regard to the re-opening of the Harcourt line from Shankill to Harcourt Street and if he would look especially at what I understand is possible almost immediately, the installation of a bus-way coming from Dundrum into Grand Parade. From my studies I believe this could be undertaken for a sum of about £4 million and it would soon pay for itself. I have argued for reducing the losses in CIE, and perhaps some imaginative thinking in the private area might not necessarily be ruled out. If the public sector cannot provide the service and do so economically, perhaps we should see if the private sector can do it. I know that is anathema to many trade union officials, but tough decisions have to be taken in the transport area. I emphasised, before the break, that we could not continue to subvent the £100 million of so per annum that CIE are now losing. That madness must stop.

The south of Dublin has now over half a million people and is part of the fastest growing capital in Europe. Up to one-third of our people are now moving into suburbs of cities. By the end of the century over half the people could be living in Dublin suburbs. For that reason the Minister should decide what he is going to do about the enormous traffic and transport difficulties of the suburbs. The average speed of traffic in Dublin city is now between four and seven miles per hour. There are one million motor vehicles, a figure which has doubled since 1970. The number of heavy goods vehicles has trebled since the seventies and the capacities of these trucks has doubled during that time. By the end of the century one in three people in this State will own a motor car. The figure is now one in four, so the increase in traffic is quite obvious. By the end of the century also we will need to spend about £2,000 million on developing our roads. That figure comes from a study recently undertaken by An Foras Forbartha. I do not need to go through the accident statistics — 500 or 600 people killed per annum and so on — and in Dublin county, the area I am arguing for, the problem is particularly acute.

I have supplied the Minister with all the details. I have supervised the undertaking of a study in that area and I do not intend to go into the financial, economic and social reasons for embarking on a programme to re-open that line as a fully electrified line in the years ahead. I am not asking the Minister to do it this year or next, just to start the process. From my inquiries I believe there are no physical problems on that line. There are some legal difficulties which, given the political will, could be surmounted. There is every reason to tackle it in an imaginative way, rather than throwing our hands in the air and saying we cannot afford to build any more railways. If we started a bus-way, it would open up that part of Dublin City which is now grinding to a halt.

This happened on the Howth-Bray line when we managed to convince the EEC and, to an extent, the Irish people, of the need for this line. I see no reason why the same criteria cannot apply to the section from Shankill to Dundrum and into the city. I would regard it as good value for money. I see no legal, physical or economic reasons why it should not be done. On the contrary, there are very strong social and financial arguments for embarking on this project. To put it in perspective, the Dundrum to Grand Parade section of the bus-way could be undertaken for probably about £4 million, which is one-twenty-fifth of this year's CIE loss of about £100 million.

I conclude by returning to the national scene and giving the Minister my main message today, that the nation cannot afford to subvent CIE to the tune of £100 million a year. It is sheer economic madness. If we were a nation bursting over with surpluses we could continue on that course of action. It is not enough for us to continue saying that it is a social service, therefore we must pay the piper. Many services are being cut back here, many public expenditure items which we are all coming to realise this nation cannot afford. It has often been said that we have been providing ourselves as a nation with services beyond which we have earned and I feel that CIE fall very strongly into that category. The amount of £100 million would provide 10,000 jobs per annum if invested in another direction. My plea to the Minister today is to do something about it, preferably along the lines of the McKinsey Report, but do it this year or the £100 million will mount up to £200 million, £300 million and £400 million. The Minister should grasp the nettle and if necessary take on the vested interests in the company for the sake of this nation. We cannot afford to throw that money down the drain year after year.

: I must agree with some of the sentiments expressed by the last speaker particularly in relation to an attempt to cut back the vast subvention which is currently being made available to CIE. Unfortunately, it is not as simple as it sounds. CIE are obliged to work with certain structures within that company with which private enterprise does not have to work because of lack of established practices. That is one of the areas which could cause difficulty. Notwithstanding that, there is a serious need to take a very careful look at the losses there. I can see, for instance, the need to arrive at a decision now as to whether we require a social service or whether we will require CIE to pay for themselves as a purely commercial enterprise. If the people want CIE to operate in a fashion that is commercially viable, then some very hard talking and serious inspection must be carried out in relation to the way in which they operate. If, on the other hand, as many people believe and as applies in many European countries, the job of CIE is to provide a social service, a transport service, we must continue with some kind of subvention but, it is to be hoped, much less than that which exists at present.

For instance, competition has been open for a number of years between CIE and private hauliers in the road freight area. One would conclude that if similar competition were opened up in the passenger transport area then after a few years CIE would disappear altogether as a transport company. While on the one hand it is absolutely essential that we have a high standard of service whichever companies, private or public, operate these services, at the same time it is incumbent on the State to ensure that the quality and quantity of services are of such a standard as to make for efficiency. If that means elimination of a large slice of subvention, so be it.

Another matter related to the competition between the private sector and CIE is the transfer over the years of a sizeable amount of freight, which was normally carried on the railways, to the road system. This is to the detriment of our roads. Anyone examining the condition of the roads in the counties immediately adjacent to Dublin — my county of Kildare and also Wicklow and Meath — would see the dramatic detrimental effect of that vast amount of traffic which has been transferred to that area. While we might be making subvention to CIE to provide transport in another area, if in a few years time competition in the passenger area resulted in the same kind of influx of traffic to our roads the taxpayer would in the end pay for it anyway by way of taxes and subvention to the Department of the Environment for road maintenance. That area has been increasing dramatically over the years and with the growing volume of traffic will increase further.

Regarding rail freight transportation I would like to say a few words in relation to safety. CIE have put into operation all the measures which they think necessary to ensure that there will not be catastrophe if an accident should occur. Nonetheless, I do not accept that sufficient emphasis is placed on the likelihood of an accident in various counties immediately outside Dublin city. I am referring to rail transport of dangerous substances, from, for instance, Asahi in Kilalla. Quite a number of other counties, local authorities and public utility services will be affected and I do not propose to go into details. Suffice it to say that it is absolutely essential that there should be a very careful scrutiny of the safety measures which exist and that those measures be tested regularly to ensure their working order.

CIE have been somewhat lacking in their ability to initiate new transport routes either by road or rail passenger services. We members of the public and public representatives see ample need for such services. In many cases private enterprise is already entering into competition with CIE on the roads. I refer, of course, to areas where new populations have sprung up in the last ten or 15 years. In my county of Kildare towns like Naas and Newbridge have grown tremendously. Sallins was and, we hope, will again be useful industrially and its railway station has been closed down for a number of years. Funds should be made available for the reopening of such stations in order to ensure that other operators do not enter into the area and make it non-viable from the point of view of the national transport authority which is CIE. Other speakers have already mentioned towns in the north of County Kildare such as Maynooth, Leixlip and Celbridge whose populations have grown from a few hundred a few years ago to somewhere in the region of 30,000 at present. While CIE have acceded to our request and provided commuter rail services as far as Maynooth, further embellishments are needed which are vital if the service is to be made attractive to the commuters.

I am speaking of the opening of a railway station in the highly-populated area in Confey in Leixlip. That area in that highly-populated part of the county has neither a bus nor a rail service, although more than half the population of Leixlip live there. CIE should provide a service for this area immediately. The northern part of Leixlip is not serviced by any bus service, despite the size of the population. This would be a lucrative market for a road-rail transport service.

Some years ago, when the population was much lower, more or less the same bus service was provided. I do not understand how any company could expect to make a profit without increasing the road fleet and expanding the service to take advantage of this increase in population. The area between Celbridge, a fast growing town, and Maynooth, a university town, has no bus service despite repeated requests to CIE, and there appears to be little hope of getting a service in the near future. Requests have been met on every occasion with the response that to interfere with a schedule would upset the whole operation and that it would be impossible to accommodate such an extension. I do not accept that. I believe all schedules can be revamped sufficiently to accommodate new markets. The Minister should consult with CIE with a view to quickly implementing a bus service in the Maynooth-Celbridge area and providing a bus and rail service for Leixlip.

I agree with the principle of the Dublin Transport Authority, but living on the periphery of the greater Dublin area I have one reservation. I ask the Minister to ensure that the people immediately outside the greater Dublin area do not find themselves in a transport limbo, as happened with the telephone system. The greater Dublin area has a direct dialling system but people living immediately outside that area are in a very difficult situation with regard to the 01 area. I want to ensure that the same thing does not happen with the transport system. It is a possible flaw.

Another speaker mentioned further consultancy reports. Members of both Houses get many reports and they have to make time to read them. Having regard to the vast amounts of money spent on these reports, and taking into account the fact that the recommendations in these reports have not been acted on, so far as the taxpayer is concerned the fewer reports we have the better.

The Minister mentioned the continuing losses of B & I and Irish Shipping. Whenever I attend meetings as a public representative people invariably mention the losses incurred by those companies. This is because the taxpayers have to carry this heavy burden and they no longer find it acceptable to have their money used to bolster up companies which are in difficulties because of the size of their markets, their inefficiency or the fact that their markets are non-viable. Something must be done to sort out this problem. As Deputy S. Brennan said, if something is not done within the next year the accumulated losses will become too much of a burden for the taxpayers. I am not saying the losses incurred by those companies is the sole reason for our high tax burden; what I am saying applies to other companies as well.

The Minister mentioned Aer Lingus. I read about the development of our air transport system and realised that one of the early advantages this country had in the pioneering days was that we were very strategically placed. This country was the first outpost of those travelling east from the United States and it was the last port of call for those en route to the United States. Because of the type of aircraft which operated then, it was an ideal time for Aer Lingus to expand by setting up associated companies. However, because of developments in aircraft, higher payloads and the ability of those aircraft to travel longer distances and carry a greater amount of fuel, the companies operating out of our airports had to look at the situation again, and review their efficiency.

The refuelling system at Shannon is one way to attract business, but other means will have to be found. Air transport is developing all the time. New types of aircraft are being built and technology is advancing at an alarming rate. If this country is to hold the market it had years ago and to keep the niche it had carved for itself, some very deep thinking will have to be done.

To recap, I ask the Minister to look at the viability of CIE, the merits or demerits of changing the system, considering privatisation and so on, and taking greater care not to dismantle the whole structure of CIE in order to achieve short-term benefits. We should look at the very important consideration of providing a social transport service.

: I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Estimate. In order not to be repetitious I will go immediately for the subject of the Rosslare Harbour to Limerick rail line which has been under discussion for a considerable time. First of all, I welcome the fact that the Minister has agreed to meet the Rosslare Harbour Development Committee to discuss what they consider to be one of the most important assets of the Rosslare port.

Everyone in the House will know that Rosslare Harbour is the biggest passenger port in the country. It has had the greatest growth. In 1970 the number of passengers who entered the port reached 383,000 and that figure had jumped to 477,000 by 1979, and is still increasing. I will not repeat all I had to say on a recent Private Members' Motion but it is ridiculous to see a port of that size not having a rail service for both passengers and freight. I hope CIE, but more particularly the Minister, will take this into account. I am sure CIE have their reasons for considering the closure of the port. Probably one of them is that not enough people are using the passenger train.

I should like to relate an experience I had recently when travelling on the train from Dublin to Wexford. I can only say that it was not a glorious experience. I referred to it publicly as travelling on a cattle wagon because the carriage itself was filthy, and I could not put it more charitably. I offer compliments where they are due, but I cannot do so in this context. Apart from the fact that I regarded the food prices as exorbitant, I felt that if CIE want people to travel on trains they must make the service more attractive. At present few people are attracted to train travel. I know most rural Deputies would travel by train if it was more attractive. I have spoken to many rural Deputies and most of them relate experiences similar to mine. None of us wishes to engage in the hassle of travelling by car to Dublin because of the difficulties involved, particularly when we have attened meetings the night before and therefore are suffering from strain. We would like the easy ride to Dublin by train but due to my recent experiences I have grave doubts if I will ever again travel with CIE unless they can make their train service more attractive and, accordingly, viable. At the moment it is a haphazard service.

On other occasions I said it is essential for the sugar beet industry that the Rosslare to Limerick rail line be continued. The industry provides jobs for about 25,000 people — a statistic provided by the former Taoiseach, Mr. Liam Cosgrave. It is well known that a quarter of the beet acreage is grown by Wexford farmers. There is not a factory in that county, and therefore the beet has to be exported to Tuam or Thurles or Carlow. The viability of those factories depends on the beet being grown in Wexford: if for any reason the farmers of Wexford decided to retire from beet growing the sugar industry would fall and put 25,000 jobs at risk.

I believe that tragic prospect is underestimated by CIE and the Minister for Transport. I was told recently that CIE have no intention of closing the line from Rosslare to Limerick for freight. However, if it is closed for passengers that is the beginning of the end, the thin end of the wedge, for that line. The sugar company and CIE have engaged in big spending in what is known as the sugar depot at Wellington Bridge in County Wexford, at an expenditure of £1½ million. All of the facilities there were built with the railway in mind, and if the railway line were to cease to operate that beet depot would become a white elephant and consequently the sugar industry in County Wexford would become so unattractive that 25,000 acres of beet would no longer be grown in Wexford. If that were to happen it would be the end of the sugar industry.

I ask the Minister to take this matter very seriously and not to be led by CIE officials or the Department into the belief that the line could be closed for passengers but not for freight. That would be the thin end of the wedge, the beginning of the end, for that railway line between Rosslare Harbour and Limerick Junction. It would also be the end of a great industry for many counties, including your own, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

I question the intention of the Minister and CIE in relation to the New Ross-Waterford spur line. New Ross port is very active and growing, with good river facilities, but a port without a railway is not on in this day and age. A port without a railway is less attractive to both importers and exporters. With the limited amount of traffic on that line at present it has proved a great asset to New Ross and to neighbouring Waterford. The road between New Ross and Waterford is anything but attractive by car or by lorry. The railway line can transport about 400 tons of fertiliser in one shift. It would take quite a number of articulated trucks to match this. Indeed it has been claimed by Albatros Fertilisers that that kind of shift could not be accommodated in one night as it can by rail. Therefore, I ask CIE to investigate the activity they are engaged in in relation to the transport of fertilisers.

The New Ross port is growing. It has big export and import facilities with great potential. If the possibility of transporting more is investigated I have no doubt that that short line could become viable too. As with other stations throughout the country it is becoming shabbier by the week. In doing this CIE are allowing them to run down and gradually phasing out the attractiveness of such services. They believe they will get away with it when they propose to close other lines.

We are a great little country for reports. If any ideas are put forward by Deputies or county councillors or whoever, reports must be prepared. That is just a delaying process. The Minister or CIE or other bodies say: "We will prepare a report" and the proposer of the idea believes he has been successful. The report is prepared and presented and then put in the wastepaper basket and seldom if ever is there a reaction. Reports should be forgotten and we should get a little more action. Reports cost a notorious amount of money. We continuously provide finance for reports, while keeping stations and lines open and trying to improve their viability does not seem to matter.

I want to mention the attractiveness of travelling by road or by train or by having freight carried by train or by road. The last speaker touched on this as did many others. When one driver can accommodate 400 tons at a time that should be more viable than the case of a driver who can accommodate at most 30 tons at a time. I do not have to go beyond that. It sometimes surprises and disappoints me to hear CIE say that such transport from town to town is not viable. Commonsense suggests that the figures do not add up. With the congestion on our roads, with the terrible roads we have, with little money being poured into roads — I am talking in particular about county roads and not national primaries or secondaries — and with heavy traffic on them it must be in the interest of CIE and the country to use CIE more to carry freight and passengers.

I was speaking to a Deputy from the Shannon region and he asked me to suggest to the Minister that he should investigate the possibility of providing a railway line to connect Limerick city with Shannon Airport for passenger and freight services. Not being as well aware of the situation there as I should be, I will leave it at that.

I should like to go on to the prospect of the development of Rosslare Harbour apart altogether from the continuation of the railway line there. A document has been prepared by Rosslare Harbour Development Board, which is a voluntary organisation founded in 1933. This board was set up to help to promote the development of Rosslare Harbour. I want to quote a few specific items from that report:

Rosslare Harbour was, and still is, unique in that it is a relatively large port in a rural area (population 1930 — 400 approx.); population 1981 — 1,000 approx.).

The vast majority of the local population is employed in port related activities. The port draws many of its workforce from the hinterland and Wexford town. It has shipping connections with Fishguard, Pembroke, Le Havre, Cherbourg, and Roscoff. Sealink, Irish Continental Line and B & I, the three largest shipping companies operating in Ireland, operate the above services. The Roscoff service is a joint venture between Irish Continental Line and Brittany Ferries. The ships operating from the port are modern multi-purpose vessels. CIE provides the current nationwide connections by rail and bus.

The port is linked to the national road network by the N 25.

I should like to give a brief history of the port:

In 1844 the strategic value of Rosslare's geographical location as the nearest Irish port to Britain and the Continent was first appreciated by Isambard Kingdom Brunel (1806-1859) who was then Chief Engineer to the Great Western Railway Company of England. It was Brunel who first mooted a ferry service to Wales only 54 miles away.

In 1869 the Rosslare Harbour Commissioners acquired a portion of the fore-shore and seabed near Greenore Point for the purpose of constructing a harbour. On August 17th, 1868, the Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway had reached Wexford. A Government loan of £75,000 was procured to build the harbour.

By Act of Parliament of 1894 the Fishguard and Rosslare Railways and Harbours Company was formed. Under this Act the Harbour Commissioners were disbanded and the Waterford and Wexford Railway became vested in the new consortium. In 1895 this company was authorised to operate steam ships between Rosslare and Fishguard. In July 1906 the Rosslare/Fishguard route was officially inaugurated. The occasion marked the fulfilment of Brunel's dream of 62 years earlier.

The port and its ships saw many difficult times, particularly during the world wars. During the first world war Rosslare harbour was a British naval minesweeper base, and during the second world war the St. Patrick and St. David were bombed and sunk.

British Rail (now Sealink) have operated in the port since 1906. In 1968 the French company, Normandy Ferries, with two ships, M.V. "Leopard" and M.V. "Dragon" introduced the first car ferry link between Rosslare and the Continent. In 1971 this service ended. In 1973 the Irish Continental Line, a subsidiary of Irish Shipping Ltd., re-opened the route with the St. Patrick. In 1978 Irish Continental Line purchased a second vessel, the St. Killian, and inaugurated a second route between Rosslare and Cherbourg.

In 1978 C.I.E., the port operators, decided to extend the Harbour accommodation. Seven acres of land were reclaimed, and a new link span loading ramp was constructed. The new pier was completed in 1980, and the cost of the project was almost £5 million.

While I have been throwing bricks at CIE I should like to compliment them on this occasion on their foresight in providing this second ramp which hopefully will be the salvation of Rosslare Harbour and Wexford town to a large degree.

We hope this will be the salvation of Rosslare Harbour and Wexford town. B & I which had long been anxious for a short sea route to Britain commenced operations in May 1980. In June 1981 the Irish Continental Line and Brittany Ferries inaugurated a twice weekly roll-off freight service to Roscoff and to Cherbourg. The estimated replacement capital cost of the shipping lines at Rosslare is a staggering £170 million.

The development board of Rosslare Harbour have met on many occasions and have put forward their own ideas. In November 1980 a sub-committee was formed to find the way forward. This group was formed as a result of the many constraints confronting Rosslare Harbour, which had been accelerated by the rapid growth of the port and many changes of emphasis in the seventies.

The heavy development of the port has outpaced local services. Co-existent in the one centre are an international port and a small Irish village. The village and port are out of joint: thus travellers are not attracted to stay longer and development opportunities are lost. Some of the problems are caused by insufficient berthage, causing serious shipping delays and hardship. I ask the Minister to comment on this matter.

There are very poor onshore facilities. I put down a parliamentary question recently with regard to the customs building at Rosslare Harbour. The Minister said CIE considered it unnecessary at this stage to provide finance to finish the customs buildings. I reject that because I consider a customs' building necessary. As I said earlier, we have our problems in Rosslare and one of them is the importation of drugs. It is my contention that if the customs' buildings were completed this problem would not grow any further and there would be the possibility of eliminating it completely. I ask the Minister to take these points into account and have the buildings completed immediately. There are also environmental problems and the inability to obtain long-term port plans for port operators.

In shipping there is no guarantee of continuity of service. There is also the problem of the vulnerability of the area due to dependence on the shipping companies. In the village itself there are poor streets and roadways, inadequate water supply, lighting and sewerage scheme. I accept that this is the responsibility of Wexford County Council, but I hope that the Department of Transport and the county council will be able to resolve this problem in the short term.

The board on many occasions have put forward their own ideas with regard to Rosslare Harbour. They considered that the services provided by the county council, the Department of Transport, CIE and the shipping companies should be co-ordinated. If this were done progress could be made and we would be in a better position in the next four or five years.

The organisation of ports in Britain and on the Continent was studied as well as the Shannon Development Company and Tramore Fáilte Limited. As a result of these studies, the board considered a State-owned limited liability company vested in the appropriate Minister would be the way forward for Rosslare. The agency would have the function of development and promotion of port-related industry and services. It would do this in co-operation with the IDA, CIE, the shipping companies and Wexford County Council but its main task would be the creation of the master plan, the establishment of objectives, goals and plans, co-ordination, promotion and, where necessary and appropriate, the provision of facilities. The company could be operated by a full-time staff under the supervision of a part-time board of directors appointed by the Minister and including representatives from the interests involved, central government, the local authority, port users and other groups. The details of the terms of reference and funding of the agency would need to be investigated by the relevant Department. I asked the Minister to investigate what I consider a worth-while plan put forward by this development board and to comment on this proposal.

I should like to deal with Rosslare Strand which is adjacent to the harbour. I read in a newspaper recently that coastal erosion was a problem 50 years ago at Rosslare Strand. That problem is much worse today. It is a well-known tourist area and has three great assets. It enjoys a greater degree of sunshine than any part of Ireland, it has the strand and a golf links. There are also the other advantages of being situated in the beautiful county of Wexford which has many miles of beach, historical mounments and so on. However, Rosslare Strand and the golf links are facing major problems with regard to coastal erosion and that erosion has been aggravated in the past two or three years by the creation of the second berth at Rosslare Harbour. There are about 800 people living in the area and at peak times in the summer many hundreds are employed in the tourist industry. Those people fear that the village will disappear if corrective action is not taken immediately.

When the second berth was provided at Rosslare Harbour CIE agreed to provide beach nourishment at the strand but apart from supplying a few lorryloads last summer nothing has been done. I know it is difficult to convince people that there is a danger of a whole village disappearing but that is the case. Unless CIE carry out their responsibilities immediately there will be greater trouble in Rosslare than one could imagine. The latest suggestion is that to keep the channel in order the port of Rosslare would be dredged and the sand pumped onto Rosslare strand. This would be adequate but I doubt when this work will commence. It is absolutely necessary that this work be done immediately. In some instances the erosion has travelled to within 20 feet of an hotel and dwelling house. I feel there is no commitment on the part of the Department of Transport or CIE with regard to this problem. I am afraid for the jobs of those people and, indeed, for their houses. CIE should act seriously on this issue.

Rosslare Golf Club have spent a good deal of money on the protection of the property. I do not want it suggested that I am trying to protect this golf club for the golfers of Wexford, but it is a great tourist attraction. If we lose that attraction, Rosslare Strand will be the worse for it. I ask the Minister for a commitment today as to when the dredging of Rosslare Strand will commence and if he is prepared to continue this operation so that the Rosslare people will not be in dread of their livelihoods and also of their lives.

I recently wrote to the Minister on the subject of fair trade. Our hauliers are finding it very difficult to compete with those from other nations. While I received a reply, it was not entirely satisfactory because the Minister pointed out that hauliers cannot come into this country, pick up a load and travel to another destination within the country, but this is happening. I am asking him to investigate it. Lorries come in with a far smaller oil bill than our hauliers' and much less purchase tax to pay and, having such concessions, can undercut our hauliers. We must protect the jobs of our people. It is the responsibility of the Minister to see that this is done.

I am most anxious to see the Rosslare Harbour-Limerick railway line continue in operation for passenger and freight services. To have a port such as Rosslare without a railway line is absolutely ridiculous. I also want an immediate start to the provision of corrective measures for Rosslare Strand.

: I take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister on his appointment. I welcome the chance of speaking on this subject, but will not go on at length about the state of CIE, which is all too familiar to everybody. Much of the time of this House has been taken up with lengthy discussions on that subject. The time has come when we, as a Government, must change our thinking in relation to public transport and when public thinking must also change. We must steer our thinking away from continuous maintenance of existing structures and investigate the feasibility of alternative modes of transport. We must look into the revitalising of our railway system and aim at making it more attractive and more efficient. The Minister for Finance could offer an incentive such as giving a travel allowance to those who deliberately opt for public transport as against other forms of transport. I ask the Minister to set up a study group to investigate this worthwhile area.

We should have more positive thinking on how we spend money and what proportion we invest in transportation. We need new thinking in this regard. In my own constituency at present we have only one rail route from Limerick to Ennis and from Ennis to Gort. As all the Members know, the West Clare railway unfortunately was closed down over 23 years ago. If that railway were now in existence, we would have a mode of transport into West Clare and right along the West Clare coast which is an area of potential development, including an area along the Shannon estuary and the Atlantic. These areas in future will see major industrial developments and a feasibility study should be done in this regard.

The roads in Clare are in a hazardous state, to put it mildly. If we had an alternative mode of transport, we would be in a position to attract more industry into the remoter parts of County Clare. I am speaking on a parochial level.

: There is nothing wrong with that.

: Other areas should be considered. Indeed, the entire network of canals has been allowed to deteriorate over the years. In many European countries and in the United States canals are very satisfactorily used, particularly for commercial transport. If we are to survice and have industrial progress in the future, we must see transportation as one of the most vital factors and the most vital infrastructure for attracting industry here, and creating industry within the country. Without these facilities, there will be no major developments, particularly in the more rural parts.

I take the opportunity of complimenting the Minister for the progress which he has made since he took office in relation to industrial developments in my constituency, in particular that of Shannon Airport. He has approved routes from Shannon Airport by the airlines Aer Aran to four different centres in Europe. This is very much appreciated by the people of Clare and of Shannon because it means more air traffic through the airport, with a more secure job situation. The Minister has also allowed the maximum number of chartered permits out of Shannon, the number of which has doubled from last year. This also means more traffic going through the airport.

The Aeroflot deal has also been improved, which has helped the oil bartering situation. This Aeroflot deal helped Shannon at a time when things were quite difficult and this improvement has helped the economic situation in Shannon.

The Bombardier factory was in difficulties and the Minister has provided additional money to keep it going until the end of this year. Many do not realise that the Minister has been responsible for these improvements, but the people of Clare who do realise this, appreciate it very much.

The establishment of the Shannon Estuarial Authority will be coming up for discussion at a future date. I welcome, in principle, the concept of an estuarial authority for the entire Shannon area. I would, however, like more detailed discussions with the Minister and his officials before any major developments take place in relation to the setting up of this authority. We in Clare are none too satisfied with the present situation. We have about 17 small harbours right along the Shannon from Loop Head to Limerick city. Except for Cappagh and Kilrush, which are controlled by the Kilrush Harbour Authority, all the rest of the estuary is under the Limerick Harbour Authority's control.

The people of Clare are becoming most dissatisfied with this situation. What it means is that Limerick has control of all the Shannon region. It is something we are not prepared to tolerate in the long-term future and something in respect of which some urgent remedial action is needed. As a first move in that direction I would ask the Minister to allow the extension from the Kilrush Harbour Authority area to go as far as where the present ESB station is being built at Moneypoint, about five miles along the Shannon estuary. We want to get that under the Kilrush Harbour Authority. At a later date we shall be hoping to establish a Clare Harbour Authority so that all the area along the Clare waters would be controlled by that authority.

: What about Foynes and Limerick?

: We in Clare are no longer prepared to sit back and be treated as second-class citizens, feeling that we are being controlled by Limerick. As it stands, Limerick people like to think that Shannon is in County Limerick. It is very definitely in County Clare. In fact, it is 15 miles from the Limerick border. That is something of which we are very conscious and shall establish henceforth. I hope the Minister will take particular note of that. I have no doubt that he will.

: Guinness Peat Aviation Limited is a subsidiary of Aer Lingus based in Shannon. I should like to compliment them on their recent success, all of which helps in the better development of the Shannon region. I have an assurance from the Minister that he will do everything to ensure Shannon is maintained as the actual stopping point for trans-Atlantic flights, that all transAtlantic flights will arrive at Shannon. To that end this year alone he has given £5 million. This is vital and must continue in the future. It is essential to the survival of Shannon that it continue to be the trans-Atlantic base here.

I might mention also SFADCo, a subsidiary of the IDA. I realise that the Minister for Industry and Energy, indeed the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism, bear particular responsibility for SFADCo. However, seeing that they are based at Shannon and have much to do with the mid-west region it is essential that the Minister for Transport keeps in close contact with them. Indeed, it is important that there be somebody from the Department of Transport on the board of SFADCo because if there is to be united development it is important that the Department have a representative there. I gather that when the Minister was in New York recently he visited the SFADCo offices there. I am delighted to note that he is showing such interest in the entire region.

Reading through the Estimate I found some items rather interesting. For instance, in 1983, on average, the pay per person is shown as £6,536 whereas in 1982 the average pay would have been £8,021, creating a minus 18 per cent situation. That is something I do not understand and perhaps the Minister could explain that rather unusual discrepancy to me. Another discrepancy appears to have arisen in the marine services area where again the salary per person — this is reading from the actual Estimate — dropped from £18,321 to £14,728. Again, I do not understand how there is that discrepancy between the salaries for the years 1982 and 1983. An even more interesting point arises when one compares the average salary for 1982, which was approximately £18,321 for the marine services with those of the meteorological services shown at £8,692. It would appear that the people in the marine services were getting last year over £10,000 per head more than the people in the meteorological services. I found that unusual and perhaps the Minister would explain why that should be so.

I might mention also grants for harbours. I know that the Minister was bound, and had agreed prior to the election, to accept the Estimates as they had been presented last November. But there is a minus 44 per cent situation obtaining there——

: He knocked off £1 million.

: ——where the figure is down from £2,683,000 to £1,500,000. This refers to grants for harbours. That is a move in the wrong direction because while I appreciate and understand the economic situation of the time——

: I am sure the Minister is anxiously awaiting my final words of wisdom. The situation in regard to grants for harbours is unsatisfactory. I might look at the situation obtaining in Clare where we have no harbour development at all. We are nearly an island; we are practically surrounded by water. I hope that the Minister and his Department will take a particular interest in the non-development that has obtained in County Clare in the past in relation to harbours. I hope that they will inject moneys to ensure the development of harbours in that region.

I am aware that the Minister and his Department are doing a very good job. I am delighted that we have this particular Minister in that Department. I hope he will bring to that Department a lot of new thinking, new direction, that he will be seen to be a new broom there, adding a certain sparkle and new life to the entire Department. I would hope also that, when the history of Transport Ministers is being written, Deputy J. Mitchell will go down as the Minister who saw infrastructure as the most important element in economic and industrial development, that he will do everything to ensure that sources not already tapped will be—sources such as rivers and canals not being utilised at present—and fully developed.

: I congratulate the Minister on his appointment in which I am sure he will acquit himself well for however long or short a period. In the discharge of his duties I hope he will remember the needs of not merely the whole country but those particularly of the people of the west.

In his introductory remarks the Minister mentioned that, when he came into office, the £86 million subvention by the previous Government for CIE was £22 million short of the board's deficit of £108 million for 1982. We are all aware that many of the services operated at a loss by CIE clearly are not justifiable on commercial grounds but because of their social significance. I do not believe that the social consideration, the significance of the social factor, involved in CIE's operations justifies that huge deficit. Many aspects of the board's business and practices warrant closer examination. I am sure that if there were rigid control over many of these operations, procedures and practices significant savings could be effected in the natural deficit that has to be incurred by them because of their social requirements. It is only fair that the Minister should draw attention to this and defend CIE because they provide many services of a social character and serve areas which, without their presence, would have no transport service at all. Nevertheless, down through the years the deficit has grown but in conjunction with that we have had the unfortunate experience of services being pruned — railway lines being closed, and road services being curtailed or eliminated. Apart from the rail services to Galway and Sligo there is only one other line through the province and that is the one through my county.

: The people there are lucky that any service has been left for them.

: If it were not for the presence of Asahi in that part of the county I doubt if that line would still be in existence. As the previous speaker has said, when these lines were being closed the public that they served were promised increased moneys for the improvement of roads and were also promised improved road services by CIE. However, neither of these promises materialised, with the result that the people concerned have no service in many respects and that where there is service it has been pruned severely.

I was glad to hear the Minister make reference to the new coaches coming from Inchicore, the first of which will be available next year. I trust that when they are on-stream the Minister will have regard to the passenger trains serving the west. These trains are the worst in the country. For years both the public and their elected representatives have complained about the situation and have requested both the company and successive Ministers to have the rolling stock replaced. I travel regularly by CIE and on many occasions I am ashamed to find such overcrowding and such poor quality carriages on the line. Very often though, through no fault of the staff but because of the overcrowding situation, catering services and so on are not available. Our province is the only one that has been neglected to such an extent down through the years. I trust that the Minister will see his way to doing something to rectify the situation.

We all appreciate the importance of good transport facilities not only from the point of view of the public but from the point of view of the development and the protection of industry in any area. The communications network in the west must be the worst in the country. Apart from having the worst rail service we have also the worst roads. Ours is the only province not to have an airport. When an attempt was made a few years ago by my party in Government to rectify that situation so as to bring the province of Connacht into the eighties, there was an outcry from the vested interests, from the existing airports, as if that modest proposal would pose any threat to Dublin, Cork or Shannon airports which have grown from success to success and of which the country can be proud. The modest proposal put forward for the west in that respect could not be said to be any threat to those other airports. Yet, the opposite impression was created deliberately by some people for the purpose of creating opposition to the project. The people of the west believe that they are entitled to some recognition for the taxes they pay and for their right to equal treatment with the people of the rest of the country.

: They are entitled also to the type of leadership they showed in the last century.

: The people of the west are disgusted with the stop-go attitude of the parties in Government towards the Connacht Regional Airport. I welcome the statement from the Minister that most of the £3 million that will be available towards capital investment in regional and local airports will be allocated towards the completion of the contractual commitments made already in respect of this airport. I hope that when replying the Minister will be in a position to put at rest the minds of the people of the west in so far as the Government and his party particularly are concerned and to say that as Minister he is prepared to make the money available when required for the completion of this project. Only a very modest sum will be needed after the present contract has been completed. Failure to make available the remaining money needed to complete the entire project would be to spoil the ship for a hap'orth of tar. It would be totally unfair to the people who have put so much work and effort into the realisation of this project and who are engaged already on a voluntary basis in promotional work for the airport. We are hoping that the project will be completed in 1984.

There have been numerous inquiries so far about the airport from interested parties in industry and in business. We have every faith that when completed, the project will justify the confidence that the people displayed in initiating it.

Debate adjourned.
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