Deputy Seán Walsh has been given permission to raise on the Adjournment a matter relating to people who had difficulty signing the unemployment register in Tallaght on Tuesday last. He has 20 minutes.
Adjournment Debate. - Tallaght (Dublin) Unemployment Register.
Thank you for allowing me to raise this matter. I do not intend to take my full time. On Tuesday last the unemployed people of Tallaght were denied the opportunity of signing the register in the normal way. Perhaps I should say that they were delayed rather than denied. Public representatives in the area have on many occasions raised the matter of the totally inadequate facilities at Tallaght Garda station. Approximately 3,000 people normally sign the unemployment register there and the gardaí decided on a go slow, as a result of which there was total chaos. Towards evening the unemployed decided to block the road because they felt they might be deprived of the opportunity of signing the register. As a result of the intervention of other people the matter was resolved and the unemployed were able to sign.
I raise the matter because I am concerned about what will happen next Tuesday. The problem of inadequate facilities has existed for some time and has not arisen during the past few months. All public representatives in the area have made representations regarding Tallaght Garda station and I hope the Minister will be able to give us some information on the matter. Tallaght New Town is an area which is hard hit by unemployment. We were told that extra accommodation would be provided at the Garda station but we were subsequently told that it would take some time. I would ask the Minister to listen to what I have to say.
Advisers to officers of the House should be invisible as far as Deputies are concerned.
I appreciate that. The Minister and I are not strangers to each other. He was a great man for procedure when he was a member of Dublin County Council. I said at the outset that I would not delay the Minister and I thank him for coming here tonight. We are old comrades, maybe not the best of friends.
Of course we are.
Surely the Minister could listen to me. The Minister is well aware of this problem and he has spoken a lot about Tallaght in other respects.
The gardaí in Tallaght are totally dissatisfied with their accommodation and the inadequate facilities for those signing the register. The problem has existed under successive Governments and has been exacerbated in recent months by the increase in the numbers of unemployed. There are no politics in this matter and we must work together to solve the problem. I have no objection to members of other parties joining in this debate and I appreciate the opportunity of raising the matter.
I concur with the remarks of Deputy Walsh in highlighting the terrible dilemma and the awful humiliation of the unemployed in Tallaght last Tuesday. It is bad enough to be unemployed but it is even worse when one has to queue in the rain on the street in order to sign for one's entitlements. On Tuesday last thousands of people in Tallaght had to queue throughout the day, some until 7.30 p.m. I find that an appalling situation. It is a situation which we cannot allow to continue. I hope that as a result of Deputy Walsh raising this matter here tonight the Minister can give us some assurance that this will not continue in any area and particularly in Tallaght.
I have said for some time that a Garda station is not the right place for an unemployed person to have to sign on for benefit. It is taking up the time of gardaí who would be more usefully employed fighting the very high crime rate which unfortunately has developed in many of our new towns, and Tallaght is no exception. Every Tuesday it takes almost five gardaí the whole day to go through the procedure of witnessing signing on. Given that there are never more than 16 gardaí on duty at any one time in the Tallaght Garda station this is taking up an undue amount of manpower and of the time of the gardaí.
I can quite understand why the gardaí decided to make some kind of formal protest to the Government. It is not their responsibility, it should not be their duty and until such time as Tallaght and places like it have properly equipped labour exchanges where the unemployed people can come along and sign on in the proper dignified way, this problem will not be solved. The people, humiliated as they were, in their despair decided to block the roads in order to highlight the situation. They did it not only to highlight the humiliation they have to endure in order to get their unemployment benefit but also to bring home to the people of Tallaght the unemployment level which now exists there. Given the recent closure of Telectron and the very poor job prospects that exist in the area there will be many hundreds of people, particularly young people, adding to the unemployment figure in the area over the next few months. The time has come for the Government to find some venue in Tallaght where unemployed people can go and, under the proper supervision, sign on for their payment and at the same time their job prospects can be investigated. This is how unemployed people should be treated.
I congratulate Deputy Walsh for raising this matter and I hope that as a result some good will come to the unfortunate people who have to sign on and that they will not have to endure this humiliation any longer. There is no point in the Minister telling us that he hopes this will not occur again. He may hope that it will not but unless some assurance can be given to the gardaí I can well understand the dilemma which they face because continuously, in the Tallaght area, they are being accused of not fulfilling their obligations to the public in not fighting the crime rate and yet, week in week out, four of the gardaí have to spend the whole day simply watching people sign on for unemployment benefit. That should not be the job of a garda and it is time it was put in the hands of people who are qualified to look after the unemployed.
I hope the Minister can give us a commitment on when we may expect a properly equipped labour exchange in Tallaght, an area of over 60,000 people, which is, in itself, a city well worthy of such a service, a city which should not have to see its unemployed people queue along the side of the street to sign on. It is no wonder that many of them hold newspapers to their faces, so ashamed are they to have to queue in that way. It gives the impression that they are in some way begging for an existence. That should not be allowed to continue.
I should like to express my appreciation to Deputy Walsh for allowing me to say a few words on the matter which he so properly raised on the Adjournment. I concur with the remarks of my two constituency colleagues on this matter. It is a scandalous situation that Garda stations have been used and have come to be accepted by the Department of Social Welfare as appropriate venues for people to go to sign the register. I want to protest about this. It is entirely inappropriate and a scandalous situation that the forces of law and order are being used for an entirely different Government service namely the work of the Department of Social Welfare. Huge numbers of people have to attend to the paper work and documentation necessary each week. The Department of Social Welfare must provide the premises and their own civil service staff should see to this work which is entirely separate from the work of the Gardaí, who come under the Department of Justice. As Deputy Walsh said, this is not a party political matter. The criticism is directed not against this Government but against all the Governments that have gone past in quick succession and have failed to do anything about this problem. The Minister has been in office for some months. There was a Fianna Fáil Government before that, the previous Coalition before that and so on. All of them in succession have failed to do anything about this problem. It is not confined to Tallaght. No doubt it exists in Clondalkin and many other places. I have seen people in the most appalling weather queuing for many hours. The Garda Síochána is a highly responsible force and they would not indulge in a protest of this nature unless an extreme situation existed. It would appear that the Gardaí organised a deliberate go-slow operation with this work. That in itself is an indication of how strongly they feel about the situation that has been allowed to develop in Tallaght. This matter is now urgent and must not be allowed to continue. The Department of Social Welfare must find their own premises and have their own staff and take this work out of the hands of servants of the Department of Justice, the law enforcement agency.
I very much regret the entirely unacceptable delay which occurred in Tallaght last Tuesday and I and my Department will do our utmost to ensure that it will not happen again. There are some 3,600 unemployed persons in Tallaght who are claiming unemployment benefit and unemployment assistance. All the claim forms have been certified; all the payments will be made this week at the normal times. Therefore, nobody will be at a loss. Nobody was denied the opportunity to sign on; though there was an excessive delay, because members of the Garda, who are entitled to so ask, decided to ask claimants orally the questions which are usually put, namely, whether persons were unemployed and unable to obtain suitable employment, whether they were capable of work and available for employment and questions relating thereto, whether they were in receipt of disability or injury benefit or invalidity or retirement pensions. The putting of these questions resulted in excessive delay. Questions about whether persons were unemployed or not and whether they were in receipt of invalidity or retirement pensions are not usually put, but on this occasion they were put. I do not think this delay should have occurred, and even if the Garda have a particular grievance in relation to Tallaght, they should not take it out on the unemployed. I strongly hold that view.
The procedure of certification carried out in the Garda station is a temporary arrangement pending the provision of an employment exchange in the area. My Department propose to erect a new exchange in the Tallaght New Town centre when the centre has been built; but, as Deputies know, that could be some time away. It is proposed to provide a temporary employment exchange as soon as possible and my Department actively have been seeking premises for that purpose.
We had intended to open a temporary exchange in the post office premises in the main street which had been expected to be vacated on the opening of a new post office on the Old Bawn Road, but it is now understood that the post office will not be vacated in the main street. Therefore, the Department are arranging with the Office of Public Works to have the premises at Old Bawn Road made available for use as an employment exchange. The acquisition of these premises is being dealt with as a matter of urgency.
That, however, is likely to take about a year. My Department, therefore, are seeking to provide alternative arrangements for claim certification in the meantime. This will involve the setting up of a temporary centre and negotiations are taking place with the Eastern Health Board for the provision of a suitable site for a temporary office which would be staffed by the Department. The Department have a site in mind at present and its preparation will be arranged as a matter of urgency. I am satisfied that this arrangement will provide a satisfactory short-term solution.
Deputy Taylor made the point, with which I agree, that in recent years we have had similar situations in Blanchardstown and Clondalkin. The Department of Justice have made strong representations to be relieved of Garda certification. The setting up of the Navan Road exchange to cater for the Blanchardstown area solved the problem there. We are endeavouring to set up a signing center, to be staffed by the Department, at Clondalkin in a scouts' hall which is suitable for the purpose. However, the OPW have been unable to agree on the rent to be charged and progress is held up on that account.
I agree with Deputies that it would be a tremendous advantage to have a signing centre at Tallaght, staffed by the Department. Then we could spread the signing over several days, thus reducing the numbers who attend daily. We could have pre-computed dockets which could be handed to applicants for cashing in the post office the following day. This would reduce security risk at the post office and would eliminate the need for postal delivery of the pay vouchers.
I am extremely anxious to have an office staffed by the Department in Tallaght as quickly as possible. Next Tuesday I have no reason to doubt that the Garda will provide sufficient staff to carry out certification. Last Tuesday one extra garda was provided, and I hope these arrangements will be continued until we can establish our own temporary arrangements.
I thank Deputies for having brought the matter directly to my attention. I have had correspondence with a number of Deputies on the matter in the past few days and they may be assured that I am taking an active interest in it. I will do my utmost to ensure there will not be undue inconvenience or delays in the certification of claims in the area.
The Dáil adjourned at 12.30 a.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 27 May 1983.