Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Jun 1983

Vol. 343 No. 7

Adjournment Debate. - Mayo National School.

Mr. Flynn

I should like to share some of my time with Deputies Gallagher and Kenny. The reason for raising this matter is to highlight the replacement of Mount Pleasant national school in Ballyglass, Claremorris, County Mayo, to complain about the conditions in the school and the slowness of the Department in dealing with the entirely unsatisfactory situation being endured by the pupils, parents and community in general.

The school was built in 1880. The community have been looking for a replacement school for the past 30 years. The health officer in County Mayo has condemned the school as being unfit for school purposes for most of that period. Repairs, including repairs to the outside toilets and heating renovations, were carried out in 1971. This was a temporary measure in the sure knowledge that a new school would be built. We are no further on and it is now 1983.

The community have been active in their own way in dealing with this matter. A new site has been purchased since March 1981 at a cost of £15,000. It was completely paid for by the community and they have also collected a sizeable sum of money towards the construction of a new school. The site is two-and-a-half acres. Planning permission has been granted since August 1982. There are 114 pupils, 57 boys and 57 girls, with a teaching complement of three female teachers and one male principal teacher.

The toilet facilities are totally unacceptable and, to put it mildly, they are dangerous. The boys have one closet and a small urinal which is filthy and malfunctioning for most of the year. They have no handbasin. The girls have the use of three closets and one handbasin. There is one tap with running water. The drinking water for the 114 children and their teachers comes from that one tap located in the girls toilet block which is an outside one. If water is needed for any purpose that is the only tap on the property.

The roof is dangerous. Slates are missing from it. There is widespread dampness and dry rot throughout the school. The school is rat infested, which gives rise to a continuous bad odour, so much so that air freshners have to be used on a continuous basis.

The children have to eat their lunches on the property. Only four of them go home for lunch. They have no place to eat their lunch only in the school. There is no staff room, no cloakroom and no general purposes room. It is an entirely unacceptable educational institution in 1983.

The windows are in a dangerous condition. Not one window is capable of being opened. The school is on the main road and what was tolerable long ago is no longer acceptable as far as safety is concerned. The school is a fire hazard. There is only one opening door leading to the school. The windows will not open and are located at a very high level. It is accepted by all concerned that the school is a fire hazard.

Some of those attending the school receive their education in a prefab. It was 12 years old when it was installed six years ago. It is totally unsatisfactory. I do not have to point out to the Minister of State that experience of prefabs has indicated they are not an acceptable place in which to provide education in this day and age. The one located at Mount Pleasant is draughty and totally unacceptable.

Widespread illness is present among the school going population. It is obvious that the illnesses are related to the sanitary facilities, which are absolutely atrocious. It only requires me to point to a recent health report submitted to the Department which was signed by the Health Inspector and acting Assistant Director of Community Care, Dr. Power and Brian Maguire respectively, to highlight the situation in the school. They draw attention to many of the matters I have raised but particularly to the rat infestation. They stated in the report that there was rat infestation particularly in and around the prefabricated structure. They also referred to the "inadequate sanitary facilities provided". They say there is dampness throughout the school, the smell of dead rodents everywhere and that the woodwork throughout the school is rotten. They state it is draughty and that windows cannot be opened or closed. The final sentence of their report states "I am of the opinion that the school should be entirely replaced with a new structure as a matter of utmost urgency". I agree with that.

The INTO have been involved and threatened strike action on more than one occasion. The only reason it was not taken was in the interest of the educational needs of the children. The INTO are on record as saying that conditions in the school were as bad if not worse as anything they had experienced and which was the cause of many a strike in many a location.

There is a unique community spirit in Ballyglass. This is a rural area. It is a farming environment. We are talking about a concerned community which is becoming impatient. The lack of aggression by the community should not be taken as an indication of their lack of interest but simply as a measure of their responsibility and maturity. They are very conscious of the educational needs of their children. That is the reason they have not complied with the INTO's request to have the school closed by way of strike action. However, their patience is running out. They are seeking no more than justice and the entitlement of every citizen's child.

Has the Chief State Solicitor cleared the title documents to enable the Department to approve of a grant for the construction of a new school in Ballyglass? We want a commitment to early action from the Minister. We want a guarantee that expenditure will be incurred from the current expenditure programme on this project this year. We are aware that the capital programme has not been exhausted and the moneys have not been completely committed to date. We want an undertaking from the Minister of State that the final design documents and the other documents which will allow the project to go to tender will not be held up because of bureaucratic action.

I am appealing to the Minister on behalf of a community who have been patient for three decades. They have been mature and responsible in their attitude as far as the educational needs of their children are concerned. They can no longer tolerate a situation that is a hazard to the health and welfare of their children. I am appealing to the Minister to deal sympathetically with this request and to allow the school to be replaced as soon as possible.

Mr. D. Gallagher

Ba mhaith liom cur leis an méid atá ráite ag an Teachta Flynn i dtaobh na scoile seo. I thank the Chair for giving us time to bring this very serious matter to the notice of the Minister for Education. Deputy Flynn has not exaggerated in any way in putting the problem to the Minister. Deputy Flynn, Deputy Kenny and myself have had occasion to visit the school. We have seen at first hand the very serious condition of the building. It is most unfair in this day and age to have children and teachers work under such awful conditions as those obtaining in Ballyglass.

As Deputy Flynn has said, the local committee are an active interested group who have purchased a suitable site and who have collected the necessary funds to enable the building of a new school to go ahead. A committee are actively engaged at the moment in collecting funds to make up the local contribution that will be necessary when the Department decide to go ahead with the building. In small farming areas today it is difficult to acquire suitable sites for schools but in this instance the committee have got the co-operation of a local person who has given a suitable site. The only hold-up is with the Department. It is frustrating for parents to have to wait so long for something positive to happen. The area in question is known as Cnoc Álainn—Mount Pleasant or the lovely hill. Everything is pleasant in that area but the school which is an eye sore. It is a blot on the countryside in a good farming area where there are young families and where new houses are being built.

The children and the teachers in that school are working in what might be described as Third World conditions. I appeal to the Minister to do his utmost to ensure that those obstacles that may be holding up progress on the building of a new school be removed and that the school be built as quickly as possible.

Mr. Kenny

I am grateful to Deputy Flynn for giving me some of his time during this debate. I agree entirely with the sentiments that have been expressed by both my colleagues in relation to the conditions in Mount Pleasant school. The school was built in 1880 and the conditions there in this day and age are scandalous especially when we expect our primary schools to be an extension of the home. There is no comparison between the quality of the housing in the area and the conditions that the teachers and the children must contend with in this school.

Deputy Gallagher, Deputy Flynn and myself attended a meeting recently at the school and we found there a very restrained public and teaching staff together with their parish priest. They put a reasonable case before us and pointed to the fact that there had been delays on the part of the Department. As Deputy Flynn has said, people are becoming very concerned that something constructive should be done in the short term.

At the meeting one could even smell the sweet sickly stench of rotten flesh beneath the floorboards. The health board have to be called in occasionally. It is not fair to expect teachers and young children to work in such an environment. We are talking about an 18-year old prefab in which windows cannot be opened. This building should not be used for accommodating human beings. I should like the Minister to tell us whether the Chief State Solicitor has clarified his position finally in relation to the transfer of title. We have all been contacting him recently but we were informed courteously by his office that due to the backlog in the office, it would be some time before this matter could be dealt with. We were informed that the situation looked all right at the time.

I should like the Minister to clarify also what the next stage is in relation to the school if the title has been cleared. Is he to instruct the Board of Works to prepare detailed plans and designs and, if so, how long will that stage take? How long will it be before the plans go back to the Department for sanction? How long will it be before the Department direct that a bill of quantity be prepared and how long will elapse between the preparation of that document and the building of the school going for final tender? The Minister might tell us also whether a grant has been sanctioned in this case and, if so, if the money will be made available from the present Public Capital Programme for the Department.

We should like to know also the proportion in terms of grant that will be allocated for the school. Will it be ten-elevenths or eleven-twelfths? As Deputy Flynn has said rightly and has been referred to also by Deputy Gallagher, there is a unique community spirit in this area. Initially there were difficulties about the transfer of the proposed original site in 1978 but as a result of local initiative a suitable site was found. Also, what kind of school is to be built? Is it to be a four-roomed school and will it contain a teachers' room and a general purposes room? What are the projections of the Department in terms of roll numbers in the school for future years? That is an important question in the context of the size of school being built.

I agree entirely with what has been said by both my colleagues and I urge the Minister to clarify the situation here this evening and to assure us that action has been taken in relation to this school and also that we may expect a positive approach to be taken in the short term to get the work under way.

If conditions at the school should deteriorate between the time of registration of title and the allocation of money after tender, will it be in order for the Minister to sanction some small grant towards essential repairs without hindering the progress on the school?

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Mr. Creed)

In case anybody would get the impression that I am not aware of the conditions at Mount Pleasant school, I should like to make the point briefly that I am not satisfied with the rate of progress generally in relation to primary schools. I am examining ways and means of short-circuiting the preparatory work that must take place before the contract stage. The second point I wish to make and which also is a general point is that I am not satisfied with prefabricated buildings. I am not satisfied that as an interim arrangement such buildings are a good idea. They should be used only in extreme circumstances. There is a waste of money in the erection, salvaging and removal of such buildings.

I am pleased to note the co-operation between the three Deputies from the area in sharing the time for this debate which relates to a problem in their constituency. All three are at one in blaming the Department for the long delay in the provision of a new school at Mount Pleasant. It is necessary to put the record straight. I am aware that the existing national school premises at Mountpleasant, Claremorris, are not satisfactory. It was for that reason that my Department proposed in 1977 that the school should be replaced by a new school on a new site and asked the reverend chairman on that date to offer a site. It has been a long road since 1977. Although a suitable site was offered and sketch plans were prepared by the Commissioners of Public Works, my Department were advised in November 1978 that the site was no longer available. This resulted in a delay in planning as there was considerable difficulty in securing another suitable site. Deputy Flynn was informed of this position on 27 March 1979. The Commissioners of Public Works notified my Department in May 1980 that an alternative site had been acquired and they were requested by my Department without delay to prepare plans for a new school.

Deputies are aware from my replies to Parliamentary Questions of 20 April and 24 May last that sketch plans were approved by my Department in January 1982 and that the matter of title was being dealt with by the Chief State Solicitor. I am happy to tell Deputies that he recently confirmed that the title furnished is satisfactory. Therefore my Department are now in a position to sanction a grant towards the cost of the new school, thereby enabling the Commissioners of Public Works to initiate preparation of working drawings. The grant sanction will issue immediately and the further planning arrangements leading to the invitation of tenders will be a matter for the Commissioners of Public Works. I assure Deputies that there will be no avoidable delay in my Department in allowing this project to proceed to the invitation of tenders once the planning process has been completed.

I have dealt at some length with the question of the new school so as to make it quite clear that I fully appreciate the need to replace the existing premises as soon as possible. In the meantime such essential improvements as may be necessary to maintain a reasonably comfortable environment for pupils and staff may be carried out to the existing premises. Deputy Kenny mentioned this matter and I assure him that between now and the time when a new school will become available any application to my Department in relation to repairs to the existing school will be favourably considered.

Various improvements have been grant-aided in recent years. However, my main concern is to have the new school built as soon as possible and Deputies will appreciate that preparatory works must be carried out. Deputy Flynn said that no grants had been made available to the school since 1971. That is not correct. In 1978 external re-plastering of walls, pointing of windows and the building of a wall around part of the site to replace a fence were grant-aided. Aid was also given in 1978 towards the cost of transporting and re-erecting a double pre-fabricated classroom on the site and an extension of central heating to the pre-fabricated unit.

I have been asked about the proposed size of the new school. The question of determining the future educational needs of the area is being examined. The cost involved would be approximately £200,000 on the basis of a three-classroom school with a general purposes room. It is possible that this could be adjusted to a four-classroom school with a general purposes room if the educational needs of the area warrant it.

Deputies will appreciate that there was a problem regarding the site. A considerable part of the delay was due to the local people because of the difficulty in providing a site. Initially a site was provided which was subsequently withdrawn and the Office of Public Works were instructed to examine another site. It was over two years before approval of the second site was reached. All the delay was not on the side of the Department.

I have been asked to state the amount of the grant which will be made by my Department. I am not in a position to give that sort of information because it is not in accordance with procedure to give the amount of the grant. The three Deputies who have spoken attended a meeting at the school and the reverend manager is well aware of the amount of the grant that will be available.

The Office of Public Works have been instructed to prepare sketch plans. One of the difficulties in relation to primary schools is that the responsibility for building them is shared by the Department and the Office of Public Works. It takes approximately three months to produce the sketch plans.

Mr. Flynn

Have they been given the instruction?

Mr. Creed

They are about to be given instructions because it was only recently that the site was approved by the Chief State Solicitor. My officials will examine the sketch plans and the Office of Public Works will then be asked to prepare a bill of quantities. That will take another three months, approximately. I cannot give detailed information as to when the project will be ready to go to tender. I hope there will not be any undue delay and if any delay arises it will not be the fault of my Department.

Mr. Flynn

Will the Minister instruct the Office of Public Works to prepare the final drawings immediately?

Mr. Creed

I cannot instruct the Office of Public Works to prepare sketch plans immediately. I can request them to do so and that will be done immediately. The preparation of the sketch plans normally takes three months and they must then be examined by my officials. There are many applications before the Department relating to primary schools. Likewise there will be no delay in asking the Office of Public Works to prepare a bill of quantities. Deputies may use their influence to make sure that the Office of Public Works do not delay in this regard.

Mr. Flynn

We want the Minister to move first and we will help him along.

Mr. Creed

Deputies may be able to use their influence to get the bill of quantities prepared quickly. At that stage there will not be any undue delay on my part in asking the OPW to invite tenders. It would probably be six or seven weeks or so before the tenders would be received and examined and a contractor selected and instructed to go ahead. Because of all those imponderables it would be impossible for me to give exact dates.

I am well aware of the urgency of this matter. I have seen the file and discussed it with my officials. Some official used to say that there are three sides to every story — yours, mine and the facts. I am trying to give the facts. All the delay is not in my Department and quite an amount of it is due to the local problem. I will give the matter my attention but it is not altogether within my responsibility, since that responsibility is shared by the Office of Public Works. There will be no undue delay in my Department.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 16 June 1983.