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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Nov 1983

Vol. 345 No. 12

Private Members' Business. - Clondalkin (Dublin) Paper Mills: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Lenihan on Tuesday, 15 November 1983:
That Dáil Éireann calls on the Government following the purchase of the premises to honour their clear commitment to have Clondalkin Paper Mills re-opened for the production of paper.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all the words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:
endorses the continuing efforts of the Government to have Clondalkin Paper Mills re-opened on a viable basis.
—(Minister for Industry and Energy.)

The workers at the Clondalkin Paper Mills have fought for their jobs now for two years past. At least they have no political axe to grind on this issue. Regrettably, however, the same cannot be said for the Fianna Fáil Party. To an uninformed observer who might have dropped into this Assembly last evening and who might have heard Fianna Fáil speakers here pontificating, one would have thought that they, and they only, were the great nationalisers of this age, all of a sudden, the great keepers of promises and the great would-be openers of the Clondalkin Paper Mills. Deputy Lenihan and Deputy Harney gave us here an apparently exhaustive and comprehensive account of all the commitments given by all and sundry to open the Clondalkin Paper Mills. They referred to the commitment of the Fine Gael Party, they referred to the commitment of Deputy Skelly, they referred to the commitment of the Tánaiste, Deputy Dick Spring. They gave full details of all commitments given except one, their own. That one they conveniently forgot to mention. I am sure they would wish me, for the purpose of the record, to make good that omission so that it should go into the record of the House what was their commitment. That I propose to do. I have it here, this document — I suppose they will remember that one — and I shall read it. It is headed "Fianna Fáil, The Republican Party", dated 4 February 1982. "Text of the Fianna Fáil Policy Statement Regarding Clondalkin Paper Mills, Issued by Fianna Fáil Press Office:

Fianna Fáil condemns the inaction of the Coalition Government in regard to Clondalkin Paper Mills.

Fianna Fáil is committed to re-opening the mills and pledges that, when elected to government, it will, as a matter of urgency, take the necessary steps to ensure the resumption of production at the mills.

Obviously this document was meant to be taken seriously because not alone did it have the names typed in but the signatures are there alongside them as well. I will read out the signatures: first, Mary Harney, TD; second, Liam Lawlor, MCC; third — and here is an interesting one — Brian Lenihan, TD, whom we heard with great force here last evening, Deputy Leader of the Fianna Fáil Party; fourth, Seán Walsh, TD; fifth, Eileen Lemass, TD; and finally Richard Conroy. The pre-condition in that document, that "when elected to government", duly took place and they were elected to government in February 1982, a short period afterwards. They remained in Government in March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November. What was their pledge in that document when elected to government, as a matter of urgency to have resumption of production at the mill? Some urgency, some resumption of production.

Deputy Lenihan last evening, with gay abandon, adopted and took aboard the idea of nationalisation, as is contained in Deputy Mac Giolla's amendment. Where was his nationalisation Bill when he was in government for nine months? Did that ever see the light of day? Could it be that his Nationalisation of Clondalkin Paper Mills Bill of 1982 was held up in the nitty-gritty minutiae of the Committee Stage? Or had it perhaps been held up on lengthy debates on Second Stage? Was it ever published on First Stage? Nothing, nothing at all; it never saw the light of day. Where was the nationalisation Bill so much advocated here last evening by Deputy Lenihan when he had nine months to do it? Where was that during his nine months? Was that Bill rushed through the Dáil in one day, in a week, in a month, in three months or in six months? And his supporters in that Coalition, The Workers' Party — who have shown themselves in recent times adept at Private Members' Bills — did they produce the Private Members' Nationalisation Bill of Clondalkin? Not at all. They were confined to supporting motions of confidence in Deputy Haughey as Taoiseach, in mid-term, notwithstanding his blatant default in carrying out his written and signed commitment of February 1982.

The action committee were very unhappy about this situation as the months rolled on and nothing was happening. They sought a meeting with the then Taoiseach, Deputy Haughey. That meeting took place up there in Room No. 114 on 24 June 1982, more or less mid-term, with representatives of the action committee, of ICTU, local TDs, including myself. The action committee presented to the then Taoiseach, Deputy Haughey, this document headed "Some Facts for Presentation to An Taoiseach". I will read some of them:

Paragraph (1): Political Commitments:

(A) Pre-election pledge signed by Lenihan, Lawlor, Harney, Walsh etc.

That is the way it is put.

(B) Taoiseach's commitment in "Gregory package."

Remember the Gregory package which included the Fianna Fáil commitment to re-open the Clondalkin Paper Mills. That is one commitment of many not adopted or implemented by them in nine months in office.

(C) Verbal and written assurances by Minister Albert Reynolds to TDs, ICTU and Action Committee;

(D) Taoiseach's verbal assurances during Dublin West by-election.

There was much play here last evening about Deputy Skelly's assurances at the Dublin West by-election. But nobody mentioned Deputy Haughey's verbal assurances during the Dublin West by-election.

£30 million worth.

Paragraph 2 — Government's Action:

(A) June 3rd statement by Minister for Industry and Energy. Nationalisation fudged. Conditional purchase of assets subject to prior approval on manning levels and management arrangements.

Paragraph 3 — Inadequacy and Defects of Government's Actions:

(A) June 9th re-opening date not met;

(B) Nationalisation not being met. Instead a mickey mouse set-up with private paper-making concern, most likely foreign, having control of state body with option to take over if profitable.

Those were the submissions made to Deputy Haughey when he was Taoiseach on 24 June 1982. Did they spur the Fianna Fáil Government into any further action on Clondalkin? Not at all. July rolled on as did August, September, October, November, and what was achieved by that Fianna Fáil Government?

What is the Deputy going to do tonight? That is the only question.

Nothing, there was nothing to show for it but empty rhetoric, letters aplenty from Deputy Albert Reynolds, Minister for Industry and Energy giving commitments when they were about to go out of office.

Deputy Harney indicated here last evening that the next Fianna Fáil Government would re-open the mill. I do not know what basis or credibility that statement has, seeing that the last Fianna Fáil Government had nine months to do it and did nothing.

The present Government have taken on this situation. They have done a bit better, but not much better. At least they bought the mill.

They say they will open it again, subject to viability. In recent times I have come to detest that word "viability". The Boston consultants in their wisdom talked about a one-in-five chance of viability. For the life of me, I do not know how they assess that, not one-in-four, not one-in-six, not that it has a good chance of working, not that the workers will put their all into it. No, they pick on a one-in-five chance of viability, and frankly I distrust that kind of assessment.

The Canadian firm, FMI, are prepared to put £1 million up front. They apparently have one million reasons to think it is viable. I am convinced it is viable; The commitment of the workers will make it viable; and a modest energy subsidy from the Minister for Industry and Energy to a working Clondalkin Paper Mills, as is given in Europe to paper mills, would ensure its positive viability. I have raised the question of providing a modest subsidy in energy costs to the mill with the Minister and he said he could not make an exception in that case because if he gave it to one he would have to give it to many. In legal circles they have a saying that there is always the exception that proves the rule. In this industry, this would be the exception that would prove the rule.

The Minister indicated that he wants a good return on taxpayer's money. In return for a modest subsidy he would get the following: first, the subsidy back straight away in tax on the energy used at Clondalkin; second, an input of £2 million a year in energy use into the ESB, which is likewise State funded; third, he would keep open one of the peat burning generating stations threatened with closure because they could produce the electricity for Clondalkin and send it down the wire to the paper mills; fourth, he would keep peat workers employed to feed that generating station; fifth, he would provide work for the people of Clondalkin; and sixth, he would provide our own paper for our own country.

Fianna Fáil had the chance to open this mill and they did nothing. The responsibility to open the mill now rests with this Government and now is the time to do it.

It took them a long time.

It took Fianna Fáil nine months to accomplish nothing. This matter is urgent. I say to the Minister, strike the deal now with the Canadian firm. That offer is on the table. It will provide a 50 per cent Government interest in that firm, there will be an Irish investment in the remainder and I understand Mr. Roantree is prepared to take up a substantial equity in the remainder. He has given a commitment, I understand, to buy one-sixth of the total maximum output of paper production at Clondalkin.

Might I remind the Deputy that there is agreement between the Whips that Deputy Taylor will conclude at 7.20 p.m. You have five mimutes left.

That is so.

Will Deputy Taylor tell us how he is going to vote?

The Minister and the IDA have conducted negotiations with the Canadian firm as a result of which their money up front has been increased from an initial offer of £300,000 to £1 million. Enough is enough; strike the deal; the offer is on the table and that would enable the mill to be re-opened quickly.

That is precisely our solution.

There has been talk about the English firm and the Scottish firm. I fear that kind of talk. As indicated by the Minister last night, that firm has not yet even inspected the plant. Therefore, the Minister runs a very serious risk of falling between two stools.

Hear, hear.

My advice would be to take the Canadian deal while he can. I realise there may be some further incidential negotiations to be carried out, but if that can be done, it should be done quickly. Failing that proving possible, the Minister should give a commitment to the workers of Clondalkin that a workers' co-operative would be set up. By doing this the Minister would give confidence not only to Clondalkin but to the whole country.

The Deputy should put his vote where his voice is, but he will get his chance.

Where are the Government Deputies responsible for this situation?

I notice that the Minister, Deputy J. Bruton, is not here tonight. That is a pity. I thought he would be so interested in this debate that he would have honoured us with his presence. Having listened to Deputy Taylor I have no doubt that he is going to vote with us tonight. I cannot see how he has any other option.

The closure of the Clondalkin Paper Mills has gone on for far too long; we all agree on that, and it must be brought to a conclusion without delay. Whatever about Deputy Taylor and his remarks this evening, I believe the Minister does not have a commitment to re-open the mill. It is quite clear that over the past year, since he became Minister, he has done nothing to re-open the mill. It is only in the last week or two, since the two men went on hunger strike, that he has become interested again. Because pressure is being put on the Coalition Government, the Minister now sees fit to send IDA personnel once again to England to investigate an English buyer.

What is wrong with a Canadian buyer, as Deputy Taylor rightly asked? They sought a meeting with the Minister over the last few months but he refused to see them. At no time did he meet them. They were committed to buying the mill. They saw it as a viable proposition and were prepared to put £1 million into it. The Minister did not think it was a viable proposition. Surely these Canadians know their business. They would not have made an offer of that amount of money if they did not believe the Clondalkin Paper Mills was a viable proposition. However, they got no encouragement from the Minister. That shows his commitment on that issue.

The viability of the Clondalkin Paper Mills was never in question. Deputy Taylor agrees with that; the Irish Congress of Trade Unions agree with that; the workers agree with that and Fianna Fáil agree with it. What is the difficulty? Last night the Minister read out a statement attributed to Deputy Reynolds about the viability of the mills. He twisted that statement in an effort to imply that Deputy Reynolds would not re-open the mill unless assured by some other purchaser that it was a viable proposition.

(Dún Laoghaire): That is what he said.

At no time did Deputy Reynolds make such a statement. He maintained that it would be a viable proposition because there would not be a full reinstatement of the 488 workers. Even in the time of Deputy Michael O'Leary, Deputy Reynolds' predecessor, there was a proposition to open the mill as part of the old company with 320 workers. Deputy Reynolds negotiated that down to zero. He stated that people would be taken on as required when the mill was reopened, starting with 50 workers or 100 workers on double shift on one machine and building up to 200 to 220 workers on two machines as the mill got into operation and a market was found for the product that would be made there.

We all agree that there would be no point in opening a mill that was not viable. The workers, the ICTU and politicians would not see any point in that, but we believed that it would be a viable proposition after negotiations took place between all concerned. Before he left office Deputy Reynolds had settled the following points: first, the purchase of the mill at a very low price, £1.75 million for the plant, machinery and 14 acres of land, in anybody's estimation a very good deal; secondly, the workforce was negotiated with the workers and the ICTU and was to be reduced from 488 to 200 workers. That was agreed by everybody and on that basis everyone agreed that to reopen the mill would be a viable proposition. Thirdly, natural gas from Kinsale was coming on stream and would be available at a much cheaper rate than the electricity which was costing £1 million a year. Fourthly, there was no paper-making industry in this country so we had a captive market for the produce of the mill. All that was settled before Deputy Reynolds left office.

The £1 million spent on electricity was a big factor in the non-viability of the mill. At that time the Minister, Deputy Bruton, stated that he was considering helping Irish Steel by allowing them to avail of cheap electricity. Deputy Taylor has stated that you could not set a precedent by giving it to Clondalkin Paper Mills. The Minister was considering giving cheap electricity to Irish Steel so why not give it to Clondalkin Paper Mills? The ESB are producing 40 per cent too much electricity at the moment and it is going to waste. It is being manufactured, there is no means of storing it and it is evaporating into thin air. Why did the Minister not ensure that Clondalkin Paper Mills could avail of that electricity? That point made by Deputy Taylor is a good one and I agree with him there.

Nobody wants a lame duck. Workers have said that to the ICTU, we have said it and the ICTU have said it. We all want a viable industry, not one that is going to open for six or 12 months and then close again. The workers in Clondalkin have endured the situation for two years, and I must admit that I have never seen any group of workers stick to their proposition for so long while waiting for that mill to reopen. It is extraordinary that their endurance has been so steady and complete. They have been very patient, and they have done everything in their power to ensure that their mill will open, and I congratulate them on their stand.

Why should the Minister say that this mill is not viable? Has he done any research on the matter? A similar paper mill in Manchester has two machines of the same type as in Clondalkin and a similar workforce of 220. They are making the same product and they make £2 million a year profit. If that can be done in Manchester why can it not be done in Clondalkin? Does the Minister know about that mill in Manchester? Has he investigated any other mill in the world which is similar to that in Clondalkin, and which is viable and making a profit? There was never a question of opening the mill at any price. We need our industries to endure. The Minister did not even meet with the Canadian company. He has done nothing at all in the last year in regard to this matter, and only now is he beginning to seek another buyer. The ICTU have always believed that the intention of the Government was to reopen the mill. Several meetings have taken place over the past year between the ICTU, the Minister and the Taoiseach. A letter dated 16 November 1982 from Deputy Reynolds to Mr McGrath of the ICTU, set out a five-point plan. The first point was agreement with the liquidator; second, examination of title; third, care and maintenance; fourth, management contract; fifth, reopening of the mill. Under the fifth heading is stated: "On completion of refurbishment the mill will be opened and employment will be phased in in relation to market demand to achieve full production on a two-machine basis". That was signed by Deputy Reynolds, Minister for Industry and Energy. How can anybody say that Deputy Reynolds was not totally committed to opening the mill?

When the Coalition formed a government they held a meeting on 8 February 1983 which has been referred to and a decision to buy the mill was made by them at 2 a.m. and an agreement was signed. This was just hours before the budget statement. Has it ever happened before then that a Minister, his secretary and his officials burned the midnight oil right through the night to bring about the signing of an agreement before the next day, budget day? I am absolutely convinced that pressure was being put on the Government of that time and that the Labour Party were not going to help form a Government or support the budget unless the Minister agreed to purchase the mill and decided so to do on that night. They would not even wait until the next day, because there might have been a backing down.

After that meeting, on 14 February a letter was sent from the General Secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, Mr. Donal Nevin, stating, concerning Clondalkin Mills, that he wished to confirm that in the course of the discussions with the Minister for Industry and Energy and with officials of his Department, it was made quite clear that the undertaking being given by the Government covered the commitments set out in the Minister's letter of 16 November, 1982. I read out just now the headings of that letter. Looking around the Chamber now, I see that there is no Member from the Labour Party present.

Shame, oh, shame.

One would think that they would at least come in to listen to this debate and be seen by all the people in the gallery who are workers and families of workers of the Clondalkin Paper Mills. I am coming to the conclusion that they do not have any more commitment to the opening of the paper mills than the Fine Gael Party have.

On 14 April a meeting took place with the Secretary of the Department of Industry and Tourism, Mr. Rowan, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and members of the action committee of the Clondalkin workers. They were discussing the refurbishment of the mill, and at that time everybody was of opinion that that meant that the mill would be opened. What else could one mean by refurbishment?

Mr. Rowan stated at that meeting that as far as he was aware the Department's brief for the mill was just a refurbishment plan, that they did not intend carrying out the refurbishment, such as preparing the machinery and so forth. The members at that meeting could not believe their ears when they heard this. They could not believe that a great deal of money was being spent for nothing. There was no intention of reopening the mill, even though there were people out there and money was being spent on a refurbishment plan. I believe that the Minister at that time just hoped that the Clondalkin Paper Mills workers would go away somewhere, drift away, and eventually the problem would be solved by default.

On 23 September Mr. Nevin wrote to the Taoiseach indicating that an undertaking was confirmed on behalf of the Government in their statement of 8 February, 1983. He said:

There can be no doubt about the firmness of this commitment and, indeed of the time table set out in the letter of the Minister for Industry and Energy dated 16th November, 1982.

He also said that the Taoiseach had acknowledged that the matter should be finalised as quickly as possible and had indicated that certain negotiations then in progress should be completed before the end of August.

At that time Mr. Nevin was totally of the opinion that the Government and the Taoiseach were committed to the reopening of the mill. At no time had anybody said otherwise to the workers or the Congress of Trade Unions. This month the Irish Congress of Trade Unions issued a statement on the Clondalkin Paper Mills issue, an excerpt of which is as follows:

The basis for the statement by Congress that the Government is committed to the November 1982 agreement is as follows:

—There was an agreement between Congress and the Minister for Industry and Energy dated the 16th November 1982 which provided for the reopening of the mill. No communication was ever received by Congress that the Government wished to abrogate the agreement. The Government statement issued on the 8th February referred to the commitment of the previous Government and its decision to purchase the mill. It made no reference to the abrogation of the agreement or, indeed, to any condition as to reopening.

Discussions were held with the Minister's Department over many months concerning care, maintenance and refurbishment as provided for in the agreement. Statements by the Minister about viability did not constitute an amendment of the agreement of the 16th November. Notwithstanding references to viability, there could have been no agreement in this matter, given the imprecision of the word and the various constructions that could be put on it, apart from the period over which viability could be achieved. It was made quite clear by Congress that discussions on the purchase of the mills was in the context of the agreement. Indeed, there was no other basis for the discussions. There was no indication given at the meeting of the 7th or 8th February that the Government was repudiating the agreement of the previous Minister. A commitment was given by Congress which was insisted on by the Government and recorded in the statement that was issued, that Congress recognised that because the situation was unique by virtue of the commitment given by a Government to Congress it set no precedent for any other case. This makes sense only in the context of the agreement. For all these reasons it was obvious to Congress that the agreement of November 1982 had not been repudiated.

It is very sad indeed that a situation has arisen between the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Government in that today, when Congress were to have met the Taoiseach to discuss the economic situation, they did not meet him. It constitutes a very serious situation with the economic situation as it is that the Irish Congress of Trade Unions see fit not to meet with the Taoiseach and the Government. They have lost faith in this Government, they do not believe them any more. They feel that they have been conned, and they have.

To return to the matter of the viability of the mill, the Minister for Industry and Energy stated last night that the mill made only upgrade paper and that there was not enough market for that. I was informed last night by one of the managers of the mill that newsprint was made in the mill some years ago, 45 per cent of which was exported and that it was only when they changed over to the upgrade paper that they stopped making newsprint paper. Even at that time the mill was viable and, indeed, was viable until about three years ago, when things started to go wrong. Of course, they needed new machinery, updating and refurbishing. Of course, they needed some type of subsidy to help them with their paper production. Apparently two people from outside the country were brought in to investigate the working of the mills, and from that day on it was downhill all the way. They did not do anything to help the mills.

We imported £143.1 million worth of paper in the first nine months of this year. Every bit of paper we are now using in this House is imported. The New Ireland Forum is meeting at the moment and we are getting hundreds of submissions from people in Northern Ireland and around the country. They amount to over 200 submissions. I received in my post on several occasions what I thought was a new telephone directory but it was papers I had to read because they were submissions to the New Ireland Forum. We import all the paper we use throughout the country. That is a very sad situation when we could have our own papermaking industry and we could employ the 200 Clondalkin workers.

It is very sad that the two men are on hunger strike. I would like to add my voice in an appeal to them to come off their hunger strike. We will not ease off in our endeavours to solve the situation. I hope those men will give up their hunger strike before they injure their health and be of such great concern to their wives, mothers, fathers and families. I appeal to them for their own sake and the sake of their relatives and friends to give up the hunger strike.

It is difficult to believe that the lengthy discussions that took place were only for the purpose of transferring £1.75 million of taxpayers' money to the shareholders of a private company. If this is the case then Congress were deceived. There was a blatant abuse of public funds, if it was only to purchase the mill and not to reopen it. Whoever heard of anybody buying bricks, mortar and machinery just to sit there, deteriorate and not be of any use to anybody? Must we accept that the Government have perpetrated a confidence trick on Congress and the Clondalkin workers by using taxpayers' money simply to purchase some real estate as a ploy to head off the serious situation that was developing last February? The mills were purchased as a step towards their reopening and the provision of papermaking facilities at Clondalkin to re-employ 200 people who had acquired particular skills over years of employment in those mills. Surely that was the idea of all the discussions and the talk that went on which ended in the purchase of the mills for £1.75 million of the taxpayers' money.

I hope we will have support tonight particularly from the Labour Party and some Members of the Fine Gael Party who believe that the mills are viable and should be reopened. Let them put their money where their mouths are tonight, come to this side of the House and vote that the Clondalkin Paper Mills be reopened. I believe we are right tonight in voting for this motion. The Congress of Trade Unions, the workers and we cannot be wrong. Are we all wrong? Is everybody out of step with our Johnny?

According to the rules of debate we are limited, and in the few minutes allotted to me I wish to say that one encouraging result has come from the debate last night and tonight. There is on all sides the serious and unanimous appeal to the men on hunger strike to desist from that strike. One understands the motives behind the men's protest, but it is not a satisfactory form of protest and does not help the situation. The unanimous feeling of the House is that this protest should end and that it should be brought to an end in a dignified way. A point has been made by the people making this protest. I am confident that the unanimous appeal of this House will be acted on.

It is important that the industry which will reopen the Clondalkin Paper Mills is one which is able to trade internationally on a competitive basis. There would be no basis of self-respect for those working in the mills if they were not convinced as they went in and out of the mills each day that their product could sell proudly and competitively on international markets. They do not wish to be in some kind of hand-me-down enterprise which cannot sell in a competitive way. It is clear from the nature of paper production that it cannot solely depend on the home market. I know from my experience of involvement in this problem when I discussed it with the employees and unions concerned in the closing months of 1981 and the early months of 1982 that that could be the only basis on which the mills could be reopened. The proposals then would have provided for approximately 300 of a workforce with wage moderation and so on, but that proposal was not acceptable. That is water under the bridge.

I was convinced then that the kind of enterprise required by the workers of Clondalkin was one in which paper production would be carried on competitively. It would give no adequate remuneration, no decent salary, no decent income if we had less than a competitive industry at Clondalkin. That was my belief then and I know it is the belief of the present Minister. In any meetings I have had with him I know that he has been very anxious to get that kind of settlement. I know that that approach answers the needs of the workers of Clondalkin, an enterprise of which they can be proud, which can sell on international markets. I believed then and I believe now that it is important that the interest involved in such an enterprise selling in specialised international markets should be an interest with good experience in that area. I met the Minister last Monday and I am confident that he has a serious intention, which is shared by most Deputies in the House, to reopen Clondalkin Paper Mills on this competitive basis.

In the heat of debate Deputy Harney remarked that in the last general election I entered into promises in relation to Clondalkin. I was attacked in that election because I did not enter into any promises. I knew too much about this problem to make any false promises.

(Interruptions.)

I can forgive the Deputy in the heat of the debate here for getting it wrong.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy O'Leary without interruption, please.

I did not enter into any promises because I knew this problem too well. I was attacked for not entering into the promises auction. I am proud that no statement of mine has given anybody at any time misunderstandings about my plans or my hopes for Clondalkin. It remains tonight as it remains always and on the record that we wish to see a competitive enterprise re-open which will provide good jobs for the workers in Clondalkin, and I am confident that the Minister is seriously bending all his endeavours to that objective. I know he has been pursuing this very actively in recent weeks and in the months before that and I know that the basis upon which he is attempting to re-open it will give the kind of jobs and income necessary for the workers in that enterprise.

Will the Deputy vote for our amendment tonight?

I share the concern expressed by my Minister last night regarding Clondalkin Paper Mills. Indeed, as the Minister responsible for the rescue section in the Department of Industry and Energy, it gives me no comfort to see so many firms closing down in this recession, which has hit not only us but many other countries in Western Europe and America.

When the Government decided to buy Clondalkin Paper Mills, they recognised its importance to the area and to the economy. I am not really convinced by what I have heard from the Fianna Fáil side of the House yesterday or today. I feel they are not serious about the amendment, and I am surprised that the Fianna Fáil spokesman on Industry and Energy and the former Minister, Deputy O'Malley, did not lead the debate on behalf of the Fianna Fáil party ——

I have been in on this from the beginning and the Minister in the Coalition Government threw the Clondalkin workers out of his office.

(Interruptions.)

I understand it is not Deputy O'Malley's intention to conclude the debate either, so there is something lacking ——

On a point of order, Deputy O'Malley is on record in this House in November 1981 asking the Coalition Government to keep Clondalkin Paper Mills open.

That is not a point of order.

If I was a Front Bench spokesman for the Opposition Party, interested in my portfolio, I would be having my say. The Front Bench spokesman for Fianna Fáil did not even come into the House to listen to the debate ——

Deputy Reynolds is in hospital.

I understand he is indisposed and I quite understand his absence. I should like to take this opportunity of wishing Deputy Reynolds a speedy ——

The Minister should tell us what he is going to do.

(Interruptions.)

Deputies, would you allow the people in the gallery to hear what the Minister is saying, without interruption?

He is not saying anything.

The spokesman for the Fianna Fáil Party did not think it worth his while to come into the House to contribute to the debate. That is an indication of the serious consideration which Fianna Fáil give to this issue. When the Government took over the mills, they were concerned to ensure that, if and when it reopened, it would do so on a viable basis ——

Viable, viable, viable.

——and that concept, for Deputy Haughey's information, is shared by his own former Ministers, including Deputy Reynolds in particular, who was Minister in his last Government. He fully concurred with the concept of a viable operation at the plant. There is no sound argument for the reopening of the plant other than on a viable basis.

What does "viable" mean?

It means that perhaps it might make a profit and that it might survive in the economic business world over a long period and, therefore, sustain sound employment over a long period.

The IDA, as the Deputies know, have contacted 120 firms regarding the possibility of becoming involved in Clondalkin Paper Mills.

Apparently they found another one last week they had missed in the original 120 firms.

The loud howlings, moaning and groaning of the Opposition party, not only in this House but outside it, have substantially weakened the IDA's negotiating position with regard to the possibility of bringing in another firm. I am not talking only about Clondalkin, I am also talking about other firms that closed down.

(Interruptions.)

Please, Deputies, the Minister without interruption.

The Minister is incoherent and incomprehensible.

The Fianna Fáil Party are doing a national disservice to the Government and to the country. They may not realise that, of course, because they are not used to putting the country first, they usually put their narrow political objectives first.

We put people first.

I defend the Industrial Development Authority in their efforts to not only bring in new industries to this country but to sustain existing industry. I have seen their work at first hand and the deep commitment to sustaining employment in existing industries. It is also fully acknowledged, even by the Telesis Report, that the IDA are a most professional industrial promotion body. I want to make it quite clear that I resent criticisms of the IDA from whatever source. The Telesis report said that the IDA have developed a marketing organisation which is, unquestionably, the most dynamic, most active, most efficient and effective of its kind in the world. That is a fair comment, and it appears from what Members in Fianna Fáil have said in regard to this problem that they think otherwise.

(Interruptions.)

The Deputies opposite seem to be casting doubts on the efficiency of the IDA, and that is a despicable position for the Fianna Fáil Party to take.

The Minister has wasted an awful lot of time saying nothing.

The IDA have been in negotiation with a company in Canada for some time now and I am pleased to be able to tell the House, especially the Members opposite, that, following a decision made by the IDA board last week on the basis of a revised proposal for the mills, the IDA have reached an agreement in principle, with the FMI company of Canada. This agreement is, however, in a form which does not preclude negotiations with alternative promoters with a view to obtaining the best possible project.

What kind of cock-and-bull story is that?

Obviously, Deputy Fitzgerald does not agree to the solution of this case. Maybe he would like to see this dispute continuing and two men on hunger strike. We do not wish to see this continuing.

Will the Minister please get down to business?

Let us have some order in the House.

The Deputy together with many of his colleagues in Fianna Fáil have simply played politics with the Clondalkin Paper Mills question. The comments he has just made prove that. A satisfactory outcome has been achieved with regard to the re-opening of Clondalkin Paper Mills. A full announcement will be made by the Minister for Industry and Energy in the immediate future.

Deputies

When?

This is unbelievable.

(Interruptions.)

The Minister of State to continue.

I wish to stress that the agreement was reached by way of the normal negotiating procedure between the IDA and the FMI company.

Perhaps the Chair would ring the bell and spare the Minister from further agony.

Deputy Flynn's tendency to verbiage is well known but I am sure he will be disappointed on hearing the Minister's announcement.

On the contrary, I look forward to it.

On a point of order, some of us are of the opinion that the Minister is making a statement of some substance but it is not clear as to what that statement is. Perhaps, then, he would repeat what he has been telling us.

The Minister should be given the opportunity of speaking without interruption.

He is not behaving as a Minister should behave.

I was listening very carefully but I am not clear as to what we are being told. Could the Minister be precise as to what he is saying?

I will read the statement slowly for the benefit of the Opposition. Following on a decision made last week——

Last week?

Yes. Following on that decision which was made between the IDA board on the basis of a revised proposal for the paper mills, I wish to say that today the IDA reached an agreement in principle with the Canadian company FMI. However, this agreement is in a form that does not preclude negotiations with the alternative promoter mentioned last night by the Minister with a view to obtaining the best possible project. A satisfactory outcome has been achieved, and a more detailed announcement will be made by the Minister in the immediate future.

I still do not know what the Minister means.

What I mean is that the Government have resolved the Clondalking Paper Mills dispute. It gives us a certain amount of satisfaction to have done so. The matter has been resolved by way of ordinary commercial negotiations between the IDA and the company concerned, with the option of doing another deal with the other company.

(Interruptions.)

The Minister will not succeed in bluffing the Labour Party that easily. They have more intelligence than that.

It must be some deal.

I note the enthusiasm with which Deputies opposite are hoping that a deal has not been made.

It is a photo-finish.

The Minister will be making a further statement on this issue — this evening I am sure.

Yes, this evening.

Will the Minister please continue?

I should say that it has taken some time for the IDA to reach this agreement, but they were operating on the basis of their proper commercial criteria in the interest of achieving a viable project for the mills. To return to the concept of viability, the cornerstone of the Government's approach to the paper mills problem was that there was no point in reaching an agreement for the takeover of the mills with a company who would not be able to sustain the existence of the mills in the market place, who would not be able to bring expertise in terms of management to bear on the company and who would not be able to engage in production on a long-term basis. Such a situation would be futile not only for the Government in terms of the substantial financial commitment involved but also from the point of view of the workers concerned. Their only long-term hope is in the context of a viable project. I am happy that has now been achieved and I hope that with the agreement of the workers the mills can be re-opened and put back into production.

What is the Minister saying? Is he expressing a desire?

I hope that Clondalkin Paper Mills now have a secure and long-term future.

But what is meant by "in principle"? Does it mean anything?

I know the Deputies opposite are disappointed with this news and I am sorry for them to that extent. However, I would remind them that the Fine Gael and the Labour Party Ministers in Government decided to buy the mills and that the Coalition, made up of those two parties, have now resolved the problem in a satisfactory manner and in the best interest of the workers.

The IDA must not be keeping the Minister informed. Apparently he has had to wait a week for this news.

This Government took the principled decision to purchase the paper mills. We followed through on a straight-line philosophy and were determined not to allow in any project that would not be viable. That was the remit also of the IDA and they have correctly followed through with that remit. I am satisfied that the conclusion reached will result in a viable project.

Thanks to the motion from this side of the House.

I assure the House that the agreement was reached in the cool of the day——

(Interruptions.)

——and in the offices of the IDA following normal commercial practice that has been the cornerstone of the IDA's philosophy down through the years, a philosophy supported by all parties in the House.

In conclusion I wish to express my thanks to all concerned in this matter. I exclude from that expression of thanks the Fianna Fáil Party who have merely been disruptive. I thank the unions for their forebearance during what has been a very difficult time for their members individually and for their families. I share fully their concern, and that concern is reflected in many other parts of Ireland which may not be as successful in terms of having factories re-opened either by private enterprise or by the IDA. Clondalkin Paper Mills will be viable and will provide long-term employment for many workers in the area.

There appears to be some doubt about what the Minister has said. I would hope he might clarify the position. If I listened to Minister Bruton correctly last evening he did make some reference to the firm mentioned here this evening. It was understood on this side of the House that these discussions had failed. This matter should be clarified this evening.

In the event of what the Minister of State, Deputy E. Collins, has just said being correct there is no reason why our motion should not be accepted unanimously. The motion we tabled and the fact that two men at the Clondalkin Paper Mills have now been 14 days on hunger strike appear to indicate that the Government succumbed to the pressure involved.

I should like to place on the record of the House the part played by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions in relation to this affair. It was most disheartening to note since last November the manner in which they were treated by this present Government and the failure of the Taoiseach to reply to their letters, to answer letters sent by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to him when things were very difficult for the action committee of Clondalkin Paper Mills.

In regard to the news we have heard in the House this evening, as a representative of the constituency I want to say I am very pleased to hear it. I sincerely hope it is very definite, in the interests of the workers, of the people of Clondalkin and of the country as a whole. As I have said, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions played a very important role in this. It was indeed a pity that the situation obtaining as at last weekend should have occurred.

Last evening the Minister spoke about calm, that the Government should not be rushed into anything. He said it was important that confidence be given at all times. I want to say that the statements and counter-statements of the last week did little to help the cause of the workers of Clondalkin Paper Mills, the people of this country or the industrial situation as a whole. We had statements, counter-statements one criticising the other. It was an unfortunate situation that a senior Minister of a Government or whoever was responsible for the statements made last weekend should have carried on in this way. As a representative of the constituency I am not one bit afraid to acknowledge what has been mentioned here this evening. I sincerely hope it is correct.

I am pleased to see Deputy Michael O'Leary and Deputy Mervyn Taylor here this evening. Deputy Taylor spoke here this evening. He read the commitment given by the Fianna Fáil candidates in the general election of February 1982. I have always paid him the compliment that he makes a very colourful speech. It was very easy for a man of the calibre of Deputy Taylor to make such a speech in this House this evening. Unfortunately, though, when the workers of Clondalkin were crying out for support last Friday, when they invited all of the public representatives of the two constituencies to attend, it was noticeable that Deputy Taylor, Deputy Michael O'Leary and Deputy Liam Skelly could not see their way to attend.

(Interruptions.)

In case Deputy Taylor may feel I am hitting him a bit hard I will remind him of a meeting held in either May or June 1982 in the Community Centre in Clondalkin. Fianna Fáil were in office at the time. It is true that a commitment had been given to have the mills re-opened. The mills were not re-opened at the time. As a Deputy for the constituency I had to listen to a great deal of criticism on that occasion. Nevertheless, I had the courage and decency, as had Deputy Mary Harney and Deputy Eileen Lemass, who was the defeated candidate, to honour that invitation and accept whatever treatment was meted out to us. But last Friday night, when the workers of Clondalkin were looking for support, the Labour Party—Deputy Mervyn Taylor, Deputy Michael O'Leary—a former Leader of the Labour Party—and Deputy Liam Skelly were very noticeable by their absence.

(Interruptions.)

Six o'clock on the evening of the meeting.

It is the results here this evening that count.

I want to compliment Senator Larry McMahon. At least he had the courage and decency to attend the meeting. This has been the practice well respected throughout County Dublin over a long number of years, that irrespective of whether the sun shone, one was always expected to attend meetings. That has been the practice and custom. Unfortunately the colourful people, such as Deputy Taylor, Deputy Michael O'Leary and Deputy Liam Skelly found it impossible to attend.

(Interruptions.)

Six o'clock on the evening of the meeting.

I am satisfied that questions would have been put to them. For example, what about the commitment given prior to the last general election? Last evening, when Deputy Mary Harney spoke of the commitment given on behalf of the Fine Gael candidate, Deputy Michael O'Leary and Deputy Liam Skelly shrugged their shoulders——

I did not shrug my shoulders.

——giving the impression that such a commitment was never given. Will Deputy Michael O'Leary and Deputy Liam Skelly deny this document: "Clondalkin Paper Mills: Fine Gael — Fine Gael will honour any contract concerning Clondalkin Paper Mills entered into by the outgoing Government"——

That is Dublin South-West, not Dublin West.

That certainly I will stand over.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas Cheann-Comhairle

Deputy S. Walsh without interruption.

Blame the IDA again.

I was present here last evening for all the debate. I was here this evening but unfortunately I missed a few minutes. I did not interrupt Deputy Michael O'Leary; neither did I interrupt Deputy Taylor. Deputy Taylor has not interrupted me but Deputy Skelly——

The Deputy does not like the truth.

There is a fairly decent relationship between the Deputies in our constituency but it is important to listen to the truth. In case there are any doubts about the validity of this document, I should say it was not produced by me. It was issued on polling day, 24 November 1982, by Mr. John Garvey, former Fine Gael candidate in Dublin South-West.

Absolutely correct.

Does Deputy Liam Skelly want to deny that?

That is not my constituency. I am not responsible for something printed in somebody else's constituency.

(Interruptions.)

I want to refer to the meeting last Friday night and to the commitment given by the Leader of the Labour Party prior to the last general election that they too would honour any commitment given. I want to repeat that I am pleased to hear the news this evening, that is provided it is definite.

The Minister said last evening that the Canadian proposal was not viable. Now the Minister of State, Deputy E. Collins, says apparently it is viable. I sincerely hope it is. I will acknowledge what the Government have done for the people of Clondalkin. They put them through a fair share of hardship and difficulty. It is sad to think that two men should have to go on hunger strike because of a Government failing to honour their commitment, a Government supported by the Labour Party, supposedly following the ideals of the late James Connolly. What contribution have they made? It was only when two men went on hunger strike and this Private Members' Motion was tabled that any real action was taken.

Last evening in this debate, and over the years, many Members of this House have paid glowing tributes to the work of the Industrial Development Authority in the field of industry. A tribute was paid to them, rightly so, by the Minister last evening but, unfortunately some time afterwards, on television, Deputy Liam Skelly lashed out at the IDA.

Would the Deputy prove I am wrong?

It is printed here in today's paper.

The Deputy should read it and prove that I am wrong.

The Deputy should be ashamed of himself.

I am not.

The Deputy is the whipping boy for the failures of his Government. That is what he is.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Walsh without interruption. He is entitled to that much.

It says in today's paper:

A Fine Gael TD, Mr. Liam Skelly, Dublin West, who has worked in the paper-making industry here and in Canada, last night lashed out at the IDA for its handling of the Clondalkin Paper Mills saga. The IDA, he said, were incompetent and "monumentally stupid."

(Interruptions.)

On a point of information, I said it was a monumental error. I never used the word "stupid."

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Walsh without interruption from either side.

It says that Deputy Skelly was refused permission to speak on this motion last night and has made his findings and views known to the Minister and to the Taoiseach.

He emphasised that Clondalkin would be viable in the home market alone provided the raw materials could be got at the right price. The home market requires 600,000 tons of fine paper, and the maximum output of the mills is 35,000 tons. In addition, this country imports 100,000 tonnes of boxboard.

Mr. Skelly said the IDA had made a grave error in rejecting a viable proposal for Clondalkin from the Canadian F.M.I. Group. Not only had the IDA proved itself to be incompetent but, due to their indecisiveness on four occasions, it had jeopardised the future of the mill forever.

The FMI group was at the end of its tether due to the procrastinations and general messing they had gone through over the past 12 months.

The "general messing" was by the Government, not the IDA.

How does Deputy Skelly feel tonight?

I thank the Deputy for putting that on the record.

The Minister is present now. Last night he paid the IDA a well deserved tribute.

I would do it again. I have the utmost confidence in the IDA.

(Interruptions.)

I would say that to anyone, anywhere.

Deputy Walsh is in possession.

I have the utmost confidence in the IDA and I will say that to anyone.

Minister, please. Deputy Walsh without interruption.

The Minister is now present, and it has never been my policy to speak about anyone if he is not present. Last night the Minister spoke about viability. The policy of any Government should be to ensure that any project is viable. I would like to remind Deputy Bruton——

Sorry. I would like to remind the Minister, Deputy Bruton, that in July 1982 a Private Members' Motion on Fieldcrest was tabled here in his name. It was well known that that industry was not viable; yet Deputy Bruton, as he was then, marched into the division lobbies to vote in support of that motion. I think I am correct when I say that. I see the Minister, Deputy Bruton, talking to Deputy E. Collins——

We are all talking to each other on this side of the House.

That is a change.

(Interruptions.)

What about the Minister for Agriculture?

I saw that on the television screen last night.

Where is Deputy O'Malley?

If the announcement made here tonight is genuine, I sincerely hope work will commence very soon and that the workers will come off hunger strike. This was a very sad situation and is something we all very much regret. As I said, I sincerely hope production will commence very soon, because that is the wish of all.

Well said.

I have paid tribute to the work of the Congress of Trade Unions, and I would like to take this opportunity to pay a tribute to the action committee which was formed when it was thought that the Clondalkin Paper Mills could be in trouble. A great deal of criticism has been levelled against these men, some of it by politicians. These men are to be congratulated for the work they have done and the way they went about it. It is unfair that men doing a voluntary job should have been criticised so much. No one can ever accuse them of leaning in any particular direction. They approached everyone and every group that could help. It is a tribute to the people of Clondalkin and to the workers in the mill that such a body of men would come together to form an action committee. They suffered a great deal of frustration but at all times they held their heads high and kept their hearts up in the hope that something would happen. I hope tonight's announcement is correct and that these men will not have to suffer frustration again.

The tabling of this motion on behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party shows once again that Fianna Fáil opposition are concerned for the country.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá 83; Níl, 75.

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Barnes, Monica.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Barry, Myra.
  • Barry, Peter.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Bell, Michael.
  • Bermingham, Joe.
  • Birmingham, George Martin.
  • Boland, John.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Cooney, Patrick Mark.
  • Cosgrave, Liam T.
  • Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
  • Coveney, Hugh.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Crowley, Frank.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, Martin Austin.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dowling, Dick.
  • Doyle, Avril.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, Toddy.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Owen, Nora.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Ryan, John.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Doyle, Joe.
  • Dukes, Alan.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Farrelly, John V.
  • Fennell, Nuala.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Flaherty, Mary.
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Glenn, Alice.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Hussey, Gemma.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • McGahon, Brendan.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McLoughlin, Frank.
  • Manning, Maurice.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Molony, David.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Naughten, Liam.
  • Nealon, Ted.
  • Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Brien, Willie.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • Sheehan, Patrick Joseph.
  • Skelly, Liam.
  • Spring, Dick.
  • Taylor, Mervyn.
  • Taylor-Quinn, Madeline.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Treacy, Seán.
  • Yates, Ivan.

Níl

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Michael.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Brennan, Mattie.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, John.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Ger.
  • Coughlan, Cathal Seán.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • De Rossa, Proinsias.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Fahey, Francis.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
  • Fitzsimons, Jim.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Gallagher, Pat Cope.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gregory-Independent, Tony.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hilliard, Colm.
  • Hyland, Liam.
  • Kirk, Séamus.
  • Kitt, Michael.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lyons, Denis.
  • McCarthy, Seán.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • Mac Giolla, Tomás.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P. J.
  • Moynihan, Donal.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • Noonan, Michael J.
  • (Limerick West)
  • O'Dea, William.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Keeffe, Edmond.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond J.
  • Ormonde, Donal.
  • O'Rourke, Mary.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael.
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Barrett(Dún Laoghaire) and Taylor; Níl, Deputies V. Brady and Briscoe.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, agreed to.

We will now await developments.

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