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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Jan 1984

Vol. 347 No. 2

Housing Bill, 1983: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

This Bill provides us with the opportunity of considering the shortcomings in the various housing programmes being undertaken by local authorities acting as agents for the Department of the Environment. A number of Members of the House are also members of local authorities and they will realise that in the past 12 months the amount of money available for housebuilding programmes in both urban and rural areas has been totally inadequate in terms of meeting the demand for housing.

In my local authority area, Louth County Council, the number of people on the waiting list has reached frightening proportions. If we consider the rate of progress in the provision of housing, whether we are talking of schemes that are at the design stage, the construction stage or which are yet under consideration, we realise how inadequate the programme is to cater for the immediate demands apart altogether from the demands that will be made in the future. Increasingly, people are finding it more difficult, and in many cases impossible, to provide housing from their own resources. With people marrying earlier it is inevitable that there will be an ever-increasing demand for housing generally. There are many shortcomings in terms of the finance that is available for housing so far as the individual is concerned whether we are talking of SDA loans of £14,000 or of the housing finance agency loans or of loans from the building societies.

If we examine the ordinary SDA loans we find it is a fact of life that £14,000 is completely inadequate for anyone to contemplate building a home. The Minister for the Environment should consider increasing the amount of money to be made available. Having done so he will have to look at the operation of the mortgage subsidy scheme. People find themselves in difficulty about repayments. In most local authority areas an increasing number of people are finding themselves in difficulty. It is essential that we look at the mortgage subsidy scheme, its operation and the possibility of extending it.

The Deputy must deal with the Bill before the House.

It was necessary to bring this Bill before the House because of the difficulty which arose following a court case involving a Mr. MacNamee and the Buncrana Urban Council. The implications of the decision in that case created a grave situation for local authorities. In the rural hinterland the industrial base attracts people from a wide area. People living in rural areas gravitate to urban areas where there are employment opportunities. When they decide to set up a home they look to the local authority in that area.

The implications for them of this court case are very obvious. As the law stands the authorities are precluded from considering their applications for rehousing. I fully support the passage of this Bill through the House. The sooner it is enacted the better since quite a number of people are feeling very anxious about their plight. They are concerned to find out whether their applications can be considered. The passage of this Bill will, I hope, rectify the situation. County managers will have one headache less when considering applications.

Before the Christmas recess I dealt with the difficulties concerning housing schemes and rehousing generally. It is unfortunate that this debate is being restricted and limited in range. We should take a long hard look at our house building programme, and re-assess our housing needs particularly when we have a new Minister for the Environment who we hope will be prepared to look at all the difficulties and problems. It is unfortunate that we are not allowed to broaden the debate to deal with all the needs and shortcomings which are so obvious. I covered most of the points I intended dealing with in the debate before Christmas. It is unfortunate that I am not permitted to broaden the scope of the debate but I support the Bill.

I opened the Second Stage debate on this Bill on my first day as Minister for the Environment. Deputies from all sides of the House extended their congratulations to me on taking up the onerous office of the Minister for the Environment and wished me well in undertaking the many challenging tasks which this position entails. I am extremely grateful for those generous sentiments which are always a source of encouragement to someone embarking on such an important mission.

The activities of the Department of the Environment are many and varied and are of vital importance to the country's economic and social development. Indeed, it is no exaggeration to say that in one way or another these activities impinge on the daily lives of almost every citizen. This is more true of housing than of any other area of the Department's activities since housing is one of the basic necessities of life. It is one of my foremost objectives as Minister to develop a national housing policy that will maximise housing output while at least maintaining the current level of the local authority housing programme so that the less well off in our community are not deprived of decent accommodation because of lack of means. It is fitting, therefore, that I should have been destined to take charge of a housing Bill — even if only a small one — on my first day as Minister for the Environment and, as I indicated in my opening speech, I hope it will not be too long before I am back in the House with another much more extensive Housing Bill.

I am thankful to Deputy Molloy for his assurance of full co-operation as Opposition spokesman — I am sure he will not mind if I have to remind him of this from time to time — and, in particular, for his support for this Bill, for which his party also accepts the need.

As I said in my remarks when opening this debate, this Bill is a short one with a limited purpose. It does not result from any comprehensive review of Part III of the Housing Act, 1966, which deals with the provision and management of local authority housing. Rather, its sole purpose is to overcome the difficulties for housing authorities to which certain sections of that Act — as interpreted by the Supreme Court — have given rise and to restore the position as it obtained prior to the judgment. This is not to say that I regard this legislation generally as being otherwise perfect; indeed, as soon as this Bill is out of the way I intend to give priority to the revision of Part III of the 1966 Act and to preparation of more extensive amending legislation.

Were the position as enunciated by the judgment to continue the prospects of many families in urgent need of housing could be detrimentally affected. If the position was not rectified by provisions such as we are debating, long established practice adopted by a number of local authorities of considering persons residing outside their functional areas in allocating tenancies would have to cease. In the past many county councils have housed persons residing within urban districts in the country and vice versa because such arrangements were seen to be the most advantageous way of looking after local housing needs. It is important that local authorities should not be restricted from entering into mutual arrangements best suited to local needs and circumstances. We are ensuring by the provisions in the Bill that such arrangements can continue.

I am aware that the Ceann Comhairle has ruled a general discussion on overall housing policy out of order and it is not, therefore, my intention to dwell on the broader issues in my reply to the debate. However, before he gave this ruling Deputy Molloy had made some critical statements about the Government's housing programme and I would like to reply very briefly to these.

I am afraid that the Deputy's comparison of the relative performances of Fianna Fáil and Coalition Governments does not stand up to examination. He claimed credit for building 24,000 houses in 1973 although he left office in March of that year. This claim is fair enough since it takes time for Government measures to show up in the number of house completions. However, by the same yardstick how can Deputy Molloy with any consistency castigate the present Government for the level of completions in 1983 when his party were in power for most of the previous year? In fact, considering the severity of the economic recession, it is generally acknowledged that housing has held up very well. Provisional figures for 1983 show 26,121 house completions, which is much better than had been anticipated this time last year and just 2½ per cent down on 1982. Thus, in 1983 the pace of decline in housing completions slowed down sharply compared with 1982 when the number of houses completed declined by 7.3 per cent on the 1981 figure. Furthermore, key indications of activity on the private housing side are showing promising signs for next year. New house loan approvals by the building societies in 1983 were about 8 per cent up on 1982. Similarly, new house grant approvals are up about 13 per cent on last year.

Can the Minister give the 1981 figure and the figure for 1979?

The figure for 1981 is 28,700. I have not got the figure for 1979.

It is a sliding graph — it is on the way down.

I said that the acceleration of the decrease has been slowed very much.

It will not go up until the Government provide the money.

We will see. Our housing completions are not totally dependent on local authority completions. Encouragement in the private sector also has a big effect.

There has been a drop in the capital budget.

Similarly, the outlook on local authority housing is encouraging. As a result of the very substantial capital provision of £208 million for 1983 the level of activity on the programme increased by up to 10 per cent over that of 1982. Although final figures are not yet available indications are that completions were up from 5,686 to about 6,200 with over 8,000 dwelling in progress at the end of the year. As for this year we expect that the very substantial allocation of £211 million will maintain last year's satisfactory level of activity, when account is taken of the current unit cost levels and the Department's recent guidelines on cost control.

The Government are acutely aware of the importance of the local authority housing programme in meeting the needs of those who cannot afford to house themselves. Deputies may be assured that the programme will continue to command a high priority.

As I said in my opening speech, the Government fully accept the need for improved legislation within which the problem of homelessness can be tackled more effectively. Deputy Molloy appears to be under the impression that this could be achieved by simply inserting another section in this Bill. However, I am afraid that this is an entirely unrealistic and over simplistic approach. As Deputies are aware, the Seanad is at present debating the Second Stage of Senator Brendan Ryan's Housing (Homeless Persons) Bill. Deputy Quinn in his capacity as Minister of State at the Department of the Environment made a considered and comprehensive contribution to that debate in which he conveyed clearly the Government's genuine concern for the plight of the homeless and outlined the action being taken to tackle the problem.

I want again to put on record here my own personal commitment to do something about the problem of homelessness and my determination to take all practicable steps, by legislation and otherwise, to alleviate the plight of homeless people in our society. I accept fully that the present legislation is not a satisfactory legal framework within which the problem of homelessness can effectively be tackled. It has become obvious that there is a pressing need for the overhaul of Part III of the 1966 Act and I can say that the formulation of better legislation in the whole area of public housing is now receiving priority attention in my Department. It is in this context that the Government's legislative proposals on the homeless will be developed. It would be totally inappropriate — not to say irresponsible — even to attempt to deal with this problem in a short Bill of the type now before the House.

In this area of legislation the need to maintain public confidence in housing allocations and to ensure that the housing that can be provided from the resources available is allocated fairly on the basis of objective and defensible criteria is of paramount importance.

Therefore, the preparation of new legislation is a task that must be approached with great care to ensure that whatever measures emerge retain the attributes I have mentioned and at the same time that they are sufficiently flexible and sensitive to the different kinds of housing need that exist.

Deputy Molloy contended that the present legislation excludes homeless persons from consideration in the letting of dwellings by housing authorities. The basis for this contention is not clear to me because under the 1966 Act a housing authority is entitled to let houses to all persons in need of housing accommodation and who cannot provide it from their own resources. Perhaps the problem lies with the schemes of letting priorities being operated by individual housing authorities. In fact, I think it should be acknowledged that local authorities have catered over the years for many families who have been rendered homeless for one reason or another.

In this context, it is worth recording that Dublin Corporation — the largest housing authority in the State — last year housed 151 families, 241 one-parent families, 155 couples and single persons, mostly senior citizens, all of whom were classified as homeless. The corporation have re-let to single people a number of small flats in various locations originally intended for the elderly but which subsequently became unsuitable for this purpose.

A number of Deputies called for improved co-operation and flexibility between housing authorities in the provision and letting of houses and in the arrangement of transfers. I fully endorse these sentiments and I will take the opportunity of exhorting authorities to this effect when circularising them after the enactment of this Bill.

The overriding objective of housing authorities must always be the provision of suitable housing in the quickest and most efficient way possible for those in the greatest need. This Bill will enable them to do this by giving them the freedom to enter into mutually advantageous arrangements for the building and letting of houses, transfers, etc, but in the final analysis the extent to which these powers are availed of is entirely at the discretion of the authorities at local level. It would be neither fruitful nor desirable that the Department should by legislation or otherwise attempt to coerce authorities into making arrangements of this nature. Since these provisions are entirely discretionary, it is difficult to appreciate Deputy Wallace's fears that this Bill may create bigger problems than those that already exist. The Bill will not affect the total number of persons seeking local authority housing one way or another, but to the extent that it is availed of by the authorities, it will permit a less compartmentalised approach to meeting the needs.

If the Minister wants his Bill before 5 o'clock he can have it. I will have a later opportunity to correct some of his inaccuracies.

Excepting the Deputy's allegation about inaccuracies, I thank him for what he has said and all Members who participated. This is a very limited Bill which has the agreement of all sides of the House.

Question put and agreed to.
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