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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Feb 1984

Vol. 347 No. 10

Private Members' Business. - Employment Creation: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Gene Fitzgerald on Tuesday, 7 February 1984:
That Dáil Éireann deplores the failure of this Government to produce any policies to create new employment opportunities particularly for young people.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute:
", while greatly concerned at the continuing high level of unemployment and in particular its impact on young people, notes that the rate of growth of unemployment has been halved since the election of the Government in December, 1982 and approves the actions and plans of the Government which, in conjunction with an adequate response from every section of the Community, will provide the necessary framework to combat unemployment successfully."—(Minister of State at the Department of Labour.)

I dealt comprehensively with the Government amendment last night. I said I deplored the Government's statement which announced that their only response to the unemployment figures was that they were disturbing. Such a word is very mild, to say the least. It is a very poor message to send from here to the 67,000 young people without jobs, without hope or direction for the future. There is no Government plan or strategy with which they can identify. Of course the same problem affects their parents. The Government's attitude to the young unemployed, after 14 months in office, is immoral. The best we, the elected representatives, can say to them is that the unemployment figures are disturbing. Of course the Government also have told us that the figures are not as bad as they might appear.

This sort of distorted type of information being handed out to our young people will frustrate them even more and drive them into the arms of personae non grata as far as the democratic system is concerned, and we will only have ourselves to blame for that. This sort of propaganda emanating from this Government in distorting the facts, trying to convince the people that there is little or no borrowing taking place, is flying in the face of truth because in 1983 the national debt increased by £2,900 million. Foreign borrowing increased by £100 million last year. It is time our people got a fair presentation of the facts.

It is bordering on the unmentionable to think that the Government would state in their amendment that unemployment is only half what it was under Fianna Fáil. Under Fianna Fáil Government, from March to November unemployment rose by 22,000 — plain figures, no distortion. Under the Coalition, under their Programme for Government, we were promised firm decisive action on the 170,000 then unemployed. We know all about the decisive action. No action has been taken, no policy and no strategy were produced and we end up with 45,000 more people unemployed. The figures are there and cannot be disputed.

What we should be concerned about is how to tackle the problem. In Opposition we have a duty to try to extract from the Government where they are going and how they think they will get there. I have always been constructive here and always will be in efforts to solve the biggest social evil affecting our people. For heaven's sake, will the Government produce the White Paper on Industry so that we can come to grips with it? If I have constructive suggestions to offer I will do so. I complimented the Government when they took steps in regard to venture capital for industry. I will do the same when the White Paper comes out, but I will criticise what should be criticised.

Where should we be going? The only way forward for this economy is by way of export net growth and import substitution. They are the real long-term answers. However, I want an interim strategy in an effort to encourage young people who have been left without hope and who are suffering from extreme frustration. I want to see them taking advantage of opportunities that may exist or will exist in the future. There are areas of opportunity here, particularly in the import substitution field. It has not been significantly tackled, though I, as Minister, made an attempt.

A 10 per cent cut in imports would create 16,000 new jobs. That is an objective worth going after by any Government. There are agencies that can be brought in to help to identify those opportunities. Already the information is on file in computers in the Irish Goods Council, in the IDA and in the IIRS. All this information should be co-ordinated and syphoned down to our young people to give them encouragement to start small businesses. There is community awareness of our real problems and the people want to take part. It can be done in small areas but a lot of bureaucracy stands in the way of our young people and frustrates them even more.

I am sure the Minister realises that the Government have an enterprise scheme through which they pay people who are unemployed to get involved in something. In Longford — I am sure it is symptomatic of other areas in the country — three girls started an enterprise on their own. They looked for help but because one of them was not entitled to unemployment benefit they cannot get any assistance from the scheme. Was that girl supposed to go out, spend some time on the unemployed list and get on the dole queue, which she never wanted to do? Her two friends are there and the whole enterprise will fail because of bureaucratic regulations. We will have to break down those regulations in relation to young people. They are impatient. They have no time for this sort of thing, they want to get going, they want to do something.

When the Minister of State was winding up he called for the fostering of entrepreneurial spirit. He can start off in one place, in the schools. When school tours come up here and go to the Dáil, the National Museum and elsewhere, a positive step forward would be to establish a permanent exhibition in Dublin, put together by the Irish Goods Council, the IIRS and the IDA, to show the products being imported here. Those agencies should become involved. We have two million square feet of idle IDA factory space but until we get rid of bureaucracy we will not be able to take the necessary step forward. That should be done straightaway.

When I was Minister I initiated such a scheme in regard to import substitution. I should like to see that fostered and developed. I am not talking party politics because the problem is too great for that. Two weeks ago I drew the attention of the House and the Taoiseach to an arrangement I had made with a German computer firm to train and employ 300 people in a real life work environment scheme in Bray. That got bogged down in bureaucracy and I am asking the Minister for Labour to get rid of the bureaucracy. The German firm were prepared to put in 50 per cent of the cost with the IDA contributing the balance, but because the Department of Education want a bit of it, because the manpower section want a bit and AnCO want a bit, the thing is bogged down and 300 young people are being deprived of training and employment.

There is a basic immediate need to get out a policy on the development of our natural resources. We can no longer depend on foreign industrialists. Industrialists already here are getting cheesed off by the approach of the Irish Government. They are beginning slowly but surely to pull out. Irish companies are now investing in America for the very same reason — there is no return on their risk investment here. We must get our act together properly in that respect. The large industrialist can look after himself — he has the banks to help him. The medium industrialist has the IDA to look after him. But the small fellow, the real job creator here, the man who employs four or five people, has nobody to turn to. It is time that the latent talent in all our agencies was brought to bear on this. The Irish Goods Council should be helping with home marketing. Despite massive investment by the IDA in the last ten years, only 25 per cent of the products and services required by large investment companies that have come in here are being supplied from within the country.

There are opportunities there to be taken up. We need to identify them and get the people back to work. I do not want to hear any more distortion of the facts. We all know the problem. It is about time we had some kind of strategy. There are many opportunities to be availed of in the softwear industry. The world market is under 35 per cent undersupplied at present and we spend money educating young people to become technicians, graduates and so on who are capable of turning out the products required but we do not give them any opportunity to do so. Let us use the assets we have invested in whether it is in education, IDA space or whatever. We must put the whole act together and get the people back to work. It is time that we turned over a new leaf and got on the right road.

I will respond in the spirit in which Deputy Reynolds made his speech. It was a constructive speech unlike what I read of yesterday's speech. Perhaps the tone as conveyed in the coldness of black and white print the following day distorted what was the intention of the former Minister for Labour.

Do not provoke me.

I did not think it would happen that quickly.

If the Minister wants to provoke me he is very welcome.

Do not provoke the Chair either.

In the spirit of the constructive realism which Deputy Reynolds and I share we can do two things in this debate. We can rake over the old coals on both sides going back from whatever starting point one cares to choose and prove with marvellous rhetoric and great passion, aided on occasion by provocation from different sides, that, whatever the reason for the disastrous position many young people are in, it is not our fault, that somehow we are clear and are not responsible. We could make that case. The two former Ministers opposite me know how well that case could be made because they presided over many of the figures I could quote to them. I do not propose to take that soft option but I am putting down a marker to them and to the people that if this is the way they want us to play this game of debate I reserve my position.

I listened to Deputy Reynolds and the constructive manner in which he was trying to address the problem. I hope to make my contribution in the same spirit. The Minister of State put on record yesterday some of the facts and figures which are party to this debate. In relation to the Nixdorf question which the Deputy raised in the last moments of his speech, I will make every effort to ensure that wherever bureaucracy is blocking that I will try to unlock it.

I was unable to attend yesterday's debate because I was at a seminar/ conference which was called specially by Ministers for Labour from all the OECD countries. While it is no consolation to say that things are bad but they are bad elsewhere, what could be learned from the conference and applied here is that, firstly, the economic crisis the western world is going through is not the same as any crisis that happened before. There was general consensus, even among the most traditional and conservative representatives at the conference, that this time it is a major structural change. The consequences of the change are totally unforeseen and we are into new country for which there are no maps, guides or wise old men to point to solutions that were utilised the last time.

Deputy Reynolds emphasised the fact that we were on our own and paraphrased the words of a former leader of his own party, Seán Lemass, when he said that the world did not owe us a living and if we did not go out and earn it ourselves nobody else would do it for us. I share that view and his view in relation to a combination of export led growth and import substitution. There are constraints in relation to that. We are looking at it. The two former Ministers know the nature of EEC constraints and know how the importation boom that was precipitated in the late seventies is now part of the problem. However, I take the point and we will be looking at ways in which we can harness the enterprise of young people. We will go after areas of import substitution in a manner which, even if we were to achieve the 10 per cent as suggested, would be very productive.

What we are basically saying in response to the motion put down by Fianna Fáil is, firstly, the figures are bad. Nobody would suggest otherwise. Secondly, they are particularly bad for young people because of the percentages involved and thirdly, not only do we recognise that but we have taken a series of detailed steps to try to counteract it. The Minister of State outlined a number of those yesterday. I do not think it would be productive to repeat them.

It is clear that despite the difficult establishment of the Youth Employment Agency because of the change of Government, a difficulty not made any easier by the unfortunate criticism which Deputy Fitzgerald made of it, the agency is beginning to show substantial results. These results will get better and better. It is a unique organisation.

How many jobs have been created?

The facts and figures are there. If the Deputy likes I will give them to him but I do not wish to provoke him unduly. Thousands of jobs have been created in terms of placement, experience and training. That is what the agency was about. The Deputy's tenure as Minister for Labour at least educated him to that extent.

I saw the political shenanigans on the day before I resumed office.

We have political shenanigans published that would give us pretty good export earnings if we could turn The Boss into film rights. If that could be sold by the National Film Studio we would have no difficulties. If the Deputy wants to go into that trench I will go all the way with him but if he wants to have a debate about unemployment——

The Minister must be scant on ideas.

I am not.

We will have an opportunity to reply so we will just listen for now.

Attacking the agency for whatever reason is an unfortunate counter-productive activity. As far as this administration and the Labour Party, which conceived the idea of the agency, are concerned, the agency was enacted as part of a joint programme for Government under a previous Coalition Government and was established and had its initial operation when the Deputy was in the Department of Labour. The agency has the resources, talent and commitment to do what it was set up to do, that is to implement the social guarantee extended to all young people and to say to them that there is hope in this land. They do not have to face the dole queue indefinitely. The social guarantee is that for every young person who leaves third level or second level education and fails to get a job, the agency will act to identify them, try to target in on their needs and provide them with a suitable form of training and education to enable them to get work. It is not a machine for making people instantly happy. It was never intended to be that. As Deputy Reynolds indicated yesterday evening, it was doing much of what the people opposite wish us to do now. It is looking at the figures of unemployment, looking at the breakdown of the numbers of young people who are unemployed, looking at why they are unemployed and trying to unravel the extraordinary lack of information we have in this area, despite all the statistics. While the numbers on the live register increase slowly, much more slowly than previously——

The Minister should not get into that area.

What about the January figures?

Nobody can be proud of those figures.

They are increasing faster than ever before.

Anybody endeavouring to get into that kind of argument is going down the cul-de-sac that Deputy Fitzgerald finds himself being pulled into. What we do not have and what previous administrations did not have is information as to the breakdown of the numbers on the live register. We do not know why it is that up to 18,000 people move on or off the live register each month. In many cases we do not have a sufficient picture of where are the jobs people are going into, of why they are not holding on to them and whether for those who do not move from the register there is a need for a particular skills or training. When in response to the then oncoming industrialisation that was seen as being delivered in the main by foreign led domestic companies, AnCO were established. There was then a clear role for training, for providing workers with the necessary skills to work in the Nixdorf- type companies and other companies throughout the country. A catch-22 situation in which many young people found themselves was that of not being able to get jobs because of not having experience and of not being able to acquire experience without first getting jobs, but to get jobs they needed some kind of vocational training. Initially that problem was broken down successfully by AnCO in their training centres and that successful work is being carried on now by the Youth Employment Agency in conjunction with the educational and training services.

We are aware that many young people are finding jobs but this does not mean that there are anything like enough jobs. In our industrial White Paper we will be producing the kind of blueprint that Deputy Reynolds has been asking for, asking for in Opposition, though in a constructive manner. During this year with the assistance of the Cabinet task force and the National Planning Board we will be producing the kind of blueprint by which we will be able to identify the jobs that can be created and which will outline a support system to enable people to produce those jobs.

I would agree with Deputy Reynolds that the best prospect for job creation in our type of economy or in many other OECD economies is in the small-to-medium sized enterprises. There has been an unprecedented increase in the numbers on the live register, an increase of 78 per cent since 1981, which was a period covering three administration so that all of us spent some time in office during the time of that dramatic rise. We all know the factors that brought about in part that extraordinary increase, but in contrast to what might have been anticipated in the past there are on the live register many people who have the capacity, the skill and the experience to start an enterprise and who because of their knowledge of their localities or of a particular industrial process, are in a position to identify where the potential is for import substitution. This Government have recognised that and have introduced a scheme to assist people to use their skills and experience. The enterprise allowance scheme, details of which were announced in the House before Christmas but which were enlarged on substantially in my contribution to the debate on the budget, has been an unprecedented success. It has been totally over-subscribed.

In what way has it been over-subscribed?

In terms of our expectations of the number of people who would apply.

But not in money terms.

Deputies should allow the Minister to continue without interruption.

I presume the Deputies are aware of the details of the enterprise allowance scheme and that they will recognise that the term "over-subscribed" in this context can relate only to the numbers involved, to the numbers of those people who have expressed an interest in the scheme. I wish to nail the lie that the unemployed do not want work.

We did not say that.

I did not accuse the Deputies of saying it. They are very sensitive on that point.

There is much more money needed for the scheme.

The kind of person who has been accepted by the agency is the person who in the short term has been receiving reduced social welfare payments because of his desire to go back to work. It is an indication of the strength of our analysis that people are showing that they wish to work, that they wish to work on jobs they know they can do and that they are anxious to fulfil market needs as they perceive them to be.

How many are on the waiting list?

I said it before — perhaps it is unfortunate that the full details of my speech were not made available to the Fianna Fáil Deputies — that we are happy with the initial progress of this scheme which effectively was inaugurated only before Christmas. We are considering ways in which the scheme can be enlarged. That is very much the point Deputy Reynolds made in relation to the problem of qualifications for someone who had not been on the live register. The purpose of the exercise is to remove any difficulties and constraints which may be inadvertently in the way of anyone who has an idea, who has the capacity to put that idea into effect and who therefore should be given every encouragement. That is a constructive recommendation and one that we will put into effect.

The thinking behind the enterprise scheme is that, as in the White Paper which is in draft from that has just been completed, we are identifying a whole range of areas in which work can be created. There is the development of what is known in the OECD as the third sector. In every other European country, particularly Finland, the Scandinavian countries in general, Belgium and the Netherlands, governments are considering ways in which people who have ideas, who have the ability to put those ideas into effect and who have perceived a market for their products can be encouraged. This can be extended to include other categories apart from those on the live register and to include anyone who wishes to work but who needs to be in a position to draw unemployment benefits. The contradiction that has permeated our society in terms of the nature of the insurance scheme has been broken in virtually every other European country. This could not be more relevant to any group than it is to young people because the great crime about unemployment as it affects young people is that, as most of us realise, so much of our education began only when we started to work. While formal education gave us a qualification, whether in terms of the leaving certificate or whatever, even someone with third level vocational training in medicine, dentistry, architecture or whatever was educated only in the final analysis by way of experience on the job in becoming a productive member of society. This is something that must be harnessed so far as our young people are concerned.

Fianna Fáil are anxious to criticise us trenchantly in relation to this area but I would say to them that the problem is of such a scale that it should not be made a political football. Without intending to be party political, Fianna Fáil's record is subject to fairly severe scrutiny in terms of their failure in this area when they had the opportunity of doing something.

Has the Minister not read his party's manifesto?

In the words of the New Testament none of us is without sin so far as this matter is concerned.

The Minister should recognise that our contribution to job creation is fair enough. It is not the total answer but it is a lot better than anything we have seen since.

I am not getting into a party political debate. I wish to maintain the spirit of constructive dialogue that Deputy Reynolds and I at least have established in regard to this debate. In relation to the enterprise agency and young people, it is absolutely essential that we get young people working and we are proceeding on a variety of programmes designed to do that. The reasons for doing that are not just the reasons outlined yesterday and earlier today, those of social cohesion and of utilising the energies of young people so that others may not harness those energies — that was the euphemistic way Deputy Reynolds referred to the matter. The real reason is that they constitute an enormous resource capable not only of looking after themselves but of looking after our generation and older generations who will need their help. The coming generation will also need their help.

In his closing remarks Deputy Reynolds said the old solutions had not worked, that it was time to break new ground and to produce new solutions. I will give this undertaking to the Deputy: we will introduce proposals that will be radical, new and different and that will cut across many of the prejudices and preconceptions many people in this House have in relation to this area. I hope the spirit of radicalism contained in his concluding comments will reflect itself in a constructive appraisal of those proposals. I hope the Deputy will not fall into the trap that all of us can fall into so easily, namely, opposition for the sake of opposition.

It would be nice and comfortable to think that this recession, like the other recessions which we experienced previously, will go away, that all one has to do is to keep one's head down, to manipulate the levers of the economy as successive Governments have done and that somehow we will get back to the good old days. Many people still think on those lines. They think that if we throw a few million pounds into the construction industry, open up a few more advance factories and re-drain the Shannon, we will solve the problem. All those solutions were perceived in the past to have worked but that is another argument. However, I wish to say to this House and to people who may be listening to this debate that we are not in that country any more. There is an extraordinary economic revolution occurring across the globe that is wiping out whole industries with a suddenness and a savagery that is beyond our comprehension. This is happening to such an extent that no longer can one ask young people in primary school what they will be when they grow up.

What about the programme for government? We have had enough bluff.

This generation will have to live with the reality that they will have to look at the possibility of two or three careers.

I said that last week, last month and last year.

This Government for the first time will produce a manpower policy document — it will be my responsibility to do this — that will address itself to that problem. It is something we have not had for five or six years. We will have to deal with the reality of the changing nature of employment in our society. We have to do something previous administrations have not done, namely, to give back to people the basic identity work confers on them. The normal common preliminary social interchange in this country is to ask a person their name, where they live and what they do. Too many people have been forced into answering they do nothing because they are unemployed when the reality is that they do a lot but they do not get paid properly for it.

New technology will change the way economies function. All the economies that are experiencing an enormous increase in unemployment are, at the same time, experiencing an increase in the wealth produced in their societies. Our economy will grow this year by 2 per cent to 2½ per cent of GNP. However, no longer can we take comfort in such a performance because it will not automatically or significantly reflect itself in increased employment.

I welcome the spirit of constructive debate as demonstrated by Deputy Reynolds and have attempted to respond to it. I give the House and those listening to the debate this undertaking: we will come forward with a manpower policy and with an industrial White Paper that will exceed all the radical expectations Deputy Reynolds mentioned in his concluding remarks.

How many jobs will be provided?

I hope the constructive response we can expect from Fianna Fáil will be reflected in Deputy Fitzgerald's valuable and constructive contribution to the documents when they are produced.

I welcome the Minister's commitment regarding the introduction of a manpower policy and industrial White Paper in the next few months. I am working with him in a committee in connection with this matter and I know the kind of work being done. I am reflecting the views of the trade union movement when I say that, given the present unprecedented high level of unemployment, there are three obvious areas where we can create jobs that are needed. I am talking about housing, roads and drainage work.

The ICTU suggest — they can prove this with figures — that if there was an injection of an additional £250 million into the construction industry that would create immediately 15,000 jobs with 5,000 jobs downstream. Milton Friedman is a man we do not quote very often in my party but even he has identified that the greatest industry for reflation in a downspin economy is the construction industry because it has the greatest multiplier effect. Europe and the UK are built up. We have the fastest growing population in Europe and we need houses. I propose that there be an immediate programme providing for 35,000 local authority houses per year. This would be provided by a national State building agency. Let us consider a breakdown of that figure. If £250 million were invested, £167 million would be saved by the State in unemployment benefit and in recoupment of PAYE and PRSI. We could get a net 20,000 jobs for £83 million.

With regard to roads, I propose it is not unreasonable to state that the taxpayers, especially the motorists, would be prepared to accept a levy on a gallon of petrol for the sole purpose of providing roads and creating jobs. Our roads structure has been described by foreign industrialists as deplorable, especially in the west. There is great need for development of that infrastructure. If work were carried out, such as that done on the Naas bypass, it would relieve local authorities of the obligation to provide roads and it would create much-needed jobs.

With regard to drainage, I understand there is a row at the moment between economists in the Department of Finance and the Office of Public Works. The Department of Finance people say that drainage is not feasible. The reason given is the unduly long time it took to drain the Boyne. When one analyses the progress of the Boyne drainage project one realises that it was dragged out over the years by bureaucratic delays. It should have been completed in five years but it took nearly three times as long. This was due to the manipulation of the officials in the Department.

In my constituency about 212 workers are being laid off on the Maigue drainage. These workers could be transferred to the Mulcair. This would save 212 jobs and they would pay for themselves on a cost-benefit analysis and add about £15 million in terms of actual value to the land in the Limerick East constituency alone.

These are three definite areas where we can provide worthwhile jobs. It makes sense to provide jobs in areas where work has to be done. We have the model of SFADCo. They built factories during depressed times and they were there when times improved. I urge the Minister to take note of my comments.

That was a bit of reality.

Whenever I listen to Deputy Fitzgerald I am reminded of what the carpenter in Nazareth said: "By their deeds shall you know them."

(Interruptions.)

As Deputy Prendergast has taken some of our time, am I right when I say there are ten minutes for Deputy Fahey and 20 for Deputy Browne?

Acting Chairman

Yes.

I would like to welcome Deputy Prendergast's contribution because what he said seems to be the opposite to what the Minister, Deputy Quinn, said.

There is no man more sincere about job creation than the Minister, Deputy Quinn.

I did not interrupt Deputy Prendergast. Listening to the Minister I got the impression that he was on the Opposition benches because every idea he trotted out had already been mentioned in this House by Deputy Reynolds over the last year. The Minister gave us no new information.

The Government's amendment to our motion represents nothing short of a misleading statement and, in my opinion, is the greatest load of codswallop ever heard in this House. With over 250,000 people unemployed in this small country, how can this Government try to justify their amendment? They appear to be saying we have 250,000 people unemployed but we are doing a great job. Two weeks ago the Minister for Finance in his budget speech said that the unemployment trend had already improved. Since the budget an extra 7,000 people have joined the dole queues. I would like the Minister to define what he means by an improvement when a further 7,000 people are added to the dole queues. This problem should be tackled and if this Government continue to travel down the road of monetarist policies, that can only add to our already frightening dole queues.

In every town and village outside employment exchanges and Garda barracks, the dole queues are growing larger every week. One would expect that some members of this Government — one would expect the Labour Party — to be at least concerned to see so many able-bodied men and women, many of them in their thirties, forties and fifties having worked since their teenage years being put on the scrap heap and told, "This is your future; do not expect to work again", embarrassed and paraded weekly before the public at employment exchanges. It would be cheaper to keep them in employment rather than pay social welfare.

The majority of the unemployed are willing and want to work for their families and their country but because of the Government's unwillingness to come up with the policies and investment so necessary for job creation, they are unable to find employment. We all accept that we are living in recessionary times that must affect a small country like Ireland. However, in such times we must look to our own natural resources and develop them to create jobs for our people. Look at the natural resources we have in agriculture, forestry, fishing and the building industry, all with tremendous potential for development and job creation. The present Government have downgraded agriculture and written off our forestry industry by allowing Scarriff to close. They have also allowed the building industry to go into a state of decline with one out of every two people in the industry unemployed. Given the right type of Government leadership, these are the areas where jobs could be created almost instantly and this would bring about a substantial reduction in our unemployment figures.

I would like to give an example of a county devastated by unemployment over the past five years — my own county of Wexford. Our present unemployment figures are the worst in the country. Twenty per cent of the total work force are unemployed in County Wexford whereas the national figure is only 16 per cent and the figure for the south-east region is also 16 per cent. At present a total of 7,000 people are unemployed in County Wexford, yet the Government and the IDA have consistently refused to declare the county a priority area. Take Wexford town. There are 25 per cent of the working population unemployed, I believe the highest in the country; in Enniscorthy there are 17 per cent unemployed, in Gorey 16 per cent, and New Ross 18 per cent. These figures constitute a national scandal and demand immediate attention.

Fine Gael have three Dáil seats in County Wexford and Labour have one Senator, but because of the anger and disillusionment of the people of Wexford with this Government's policies I can assure the Minister that at least one of the four will be very disappointed after the next general election. Over the past year Wexford has suffered severe job losses with the closure of Barna Buildings and Springs of Wexford. The Great Island Generating Station might close, but we hope the Minister will use his good offices to ensure this does not happen. I call on the Government to declare County Wexford a special case for immediate attention by the Minister and the IDA. The advance factories and land are available but what we need are jobs.

Unemployment of this magnitude — 250,000 — is tragic enough in itself but a feature of this adversity which should concern all is the way the youth in our society are affected. Today we have at least 70,000 people under 25 years of age unemployed. No other country in Europe has such a severe and lethal problem on its hands.

That is not the case but continue.

We have a young, highly educated population willing and wanting to play their part in the Ireland of today, but due to the lack of jobs we are unable to utilise their talents, their idealism and their youthful expectations for the betterment of this country. It is obvious that the present Government have abandoned our young people and are prepared to sacrifice a whole generation of youth for the sake of financial rectitude. However, I would warn the Minister that the unemployed youth of today constitute a time bomb in our society which is on the verge of exploding and which will lead to open revolt and rebellion against the democratic system unless action is taken.

Many of our young people have become cynical of politicians, have a low level of tolerance for political parties and are turning more and more to the politics of protest which may never achieve the desired results but may very well fill a vacuum in the lives of our idle youth. This will be encouraged by minority political parties, as we have seen happening.

Life on the whole is a bleak prospect for our well educated young people, many of them married with families and most of them on the dole since they left school at 18 years of age. What hope can these people have if they never get an opportunity to learn the skills and habits of work? What of kind of example is it for their children if the breadwinner never leaves home for work during their period of growing up? This type of example for our young people can only lead to the weakening of the work ethic among future generations. The one per cent youth levy so willingly paid, in the main by PAYE workers——

The Deputy will have to persuade the Wexford farmers to cough up.

I did not interrupt the Minister when he was speaking. The one per cent youth levy so willingly paid, in the main by PAYE workers, in the belief that substantial jobs would be created for young people, has been a total failure. There are no visible signs that it is helping to alleviate the growing unemployment amongst our young people. I should like to ask the Minister where the levy collected in the years 1982 and 1983 was spent. Has it been swallowed up by the different agencies, paying high salaries to overstaffed officers on administration and telling us where the unemployment problems exist? Or was it used to balance the books in different Departments? The time has come for the Government to examine the situation in relation to the Youth Employment Agency, AnCO, Manpower and the other agencies with a view to bringing all those youth agencies under the one umbrella. This would eliminate the bureaucracy and red tape involved, ensuring that the levies collected are used for the purpose for which they were originally intended— job creation for our young people.

Local authorities are grinding to a halt because of lack of finance. Why not have these levies paid directly to urban, district and county councils who have the expertise and administrative facilities to employ perhaps 10,000 young people on environmental and other works throughout the Twenty-six Counties? The main objective of this Government should be to get our people back to work through imaginative and constructive policies. I contend this Government have reneged on our youth.

One might have expected the type of policies being pursued from the Fine Gael Party but their socialist partners in Government have a lot to answer for, this great Labour Party who portray themselves at election time as the defenders of the poor, the worker and the unemployed. Obviously they found the lure of the State car greater than their ideals and principles. Are the Labour Party to continue to support these policies of financial rectitude at the expense of our young people? If they do then they will have contributed to the sacrifice of a generation of young people which, in turn, would constitute genocide of a type from which our nation will not recover for half a century.

Before it is too late I appeal to the Government to give some ray of hope to our young people because I believe they will respond to such hope. They do not expect miracles overnight; they understand our economic circumstances. But they do expect that the least the present Government could do is develop our resources, enabling them to participate in what is the right of any human being, that is to serve and contribute to one's country through the workplace.

The reaction of the Government to the latest unemployment figures is simply to express disappointment which sums up the hopelessness and sense of defeat now felt throughout the community. Indeed the ethos of this Government is to accept an increase in numbers of people out of work each month, to blame our lack of competitiveness for this trend and to deny their responsibility as being the catalysts in setting this trend in reverse. Whichever public relations person in the Government scripted this amendment he has some neck. The amendment reads:

That Dáil Éireann . . . notes that the rate of growth of unemployment has been halved since the election of the Government in December, 1982. . . .

I hope the 100,000 young people unemployed do not read that amendment because it will merely add to their frustration. Let us engage in an analysis of what this Government have done by way of initiative in employment creation for our young people. They set up the Youth Employment Agency which, since its inception, they have done everything possible to strangle by refusing them adequate staffing and overlapping its role with that of existing agencies, many of which have been given money which should have been devoted to the Youth Employment Agency. Six million pounds only were spent by the agency on direct youth employment up to 31 October 1983 out of a total of £98 million collected. The Government have conned PAYE workers into making a further sacrifice by way of the 1 per cent youth employment levy. They contributed this £98 million on the understanding that their extra sacrifice was providing more resources for the employment of our young people. What have the Government done with this money? They have used it to finance existing Exchequer expenditure on agencies such as AnCO, the Department of Education, the Department of the Environment and the Department of Labour.

That is not so.

For example, the capital expenditure programme of AnCO in this year's Estimates is down by a massive 72 per cent and AnCO's day-to-day capital costs are down by 10 per cent. In other words, they have simply juggled the figures and a small proportion only of the youth employment levy has gone into the creation of direct employment. They have given no extra resources of any significance to the area of employment of young people. Rather they have simply taken money from one pocket and put it into another.

In their Programme for Government they promised a National Development Corporation with a capital requirement of £200 million, which was reduced to £7 million in the 1983 budget. But having been totally inactive in this area during the year they decided in October that this National Development Corporation would not get off the ground during 1983. Then the National Enterprise Agency, earlier rejected by them, was revived with a provision of £3 million. I want the Minister to tell the House before this debate concludes how many jobs have been created by this agency up to 31 December 1983. It is my guess that no jobs have been created and that the only money spent was that on further wasteful administrative costs, this from a Government who raised the expectations of so many of our young people. There was a time when I had some admiration myself for the Taoiseach. Having raised the expectations of so many young people, having been 10 months in Government and having hardly mentioned a young person, this Government cobbled together a national youth policy committee to make up for 12 months of their inactivity, a window-dressing exercise for their failure to take the positive action promised. This national youth committee will produce nothing. It will merely give this Government 12 months further breathing space.

A public relations exercise as usual.

This is the kind of action over which the Government are presiding. I warn them here this evening that our young people will not stand for this kind of policy any longer. There is tremendous frustration felt in every town and village where young people are walking the streets unable to find employment. That fact will be tied around the neck of this Government for the remainder of their term in office unless they are prepared to effect significant changes in the policies they are pursuing. In summary that is a catalogue of Government action on youth employment to date. It amounts to nothing more than the Government pussy-footing around with the lives of 100,000 young people. I say 100,000 deliberately because that is the figure of young people unemployed, not 60,000 as is stated in the statistics.

Let me cite an example of the disgraceful situation obtaining which I came across in my constituency this week. Four former university graduates from UCG have decided that they will have to continue to live in the house they used to rent when they were students because, if they moved out and gave their home addresses, they would receive no unemployment assistance whatsoever. How can such young people — who have spent years in the educational system — continue to exist for much longer accepting the disappointment of this Government? It is not my intention to spend all of my time in this important debate lambasting the Government, simply because the same negative attitude would merely match the Government's ineptitude on the question of youth employment. I reject the notion now accepted by many Government Ministers that full employment is no longer a realistic objective. In a country with a population of only 4,500,000, with the benefit of the resources at our disposal, a job for everybody is well within our capacity. But that will be so only if we correct our many unbalanced social attitudes, if we correct our now almost incoherent commercial and economic principles.

Employment can be created through action on two fronts. First, I believe in the creation of a climate conducive to investment initiative and the pursuance of the work ethic. This involves changes in our present regressive form of taxation. At present a company pays taxation when providing extra employment — in other words, right now there is a tax on employment, so how could we expect companies, who are finding the recession biting, to take on extra workers? PAYE taxpayers pay more for greater effort and productivity. Increased income to a company, increased company performance and greater growth increase from a company will bring about greater tax liability. This regressive taxation must be reversed. Existing industry must be enticed to become more efficient. State resources must be pumped into the traditional industries, in particular in areas such as quality control, marketing, cost control, training and management——

We are doing that.

Mr. Fahey

——I shall tell the Minister in a moment what his Government are doing — so that they can compete on the home market and then expand on foreign markets. Let me refer to the 1982 EEC survey and mention of few criteria under the heading of Irish Companies Attitudes. The company attitude to marketing of 22 countries was surveyed. Ireland was No. 21. Attitude to company sales orientation — Ireland No. 22, last. Marketing analysis — Ireland in 16th place. Advertising expenditure per capita in 1980 — Ireland in 18th place. Product quality — Ireland in 19th place. Product design and styling — Ireland in 21st place. Product safety — Ireland in 17th place. Packaging of consumer goods — Ireland in 18th place. On-time delivery — Ireland in 19th place. After-sales service — Ireland in 18th place. Consumer protection — Ireland in 17th place.

I should have thought that the budget would have addressed itself to problems such as those outlined here.

I suggest that the Deputy reads the speech in which we make money available to CTT to deal with those precise problems.

What the Government have done with CTT is that they have taken away the marketing salesmen that they had throughout Europe in the last two years.

That is not the case.

As we can see from the Government's budget, they are not interested in tackling those problems. We have the most professional agencies to be found anywhere in Europe, in the IDA, AnCO, the IMI, Córas Tráchtála and so many others. I am impressed by the talent and enthusiasm of those people whom I have met from those agencies in the two years since I became a Deputy. Clearly, their enthusiasm is severely blunted by lack of Government commitment to allow them to exploit the massive potential which is present in our work force. Young Irish people have all the ingredients to partake in industrial growth. We are well educated, highly motivated, ambitious. We want to work for Ireland but we must be properly rewarded. I continue to be amazed at the wealth of our young people's talent which I find every day in industry and throughout the various agencies — people like Brian Patterson, Director General of IMI or Denis Brosnan, Managing Director of Kerry Co-op. They are two high-profile people, but there are thousands like them throughout this country and they are desperate to make things happen. It is the structure, the bureaucracy, the indifference and the inability of this Government which are causing the present problems for those many so well educated and so talented young people throughout our industries.

The climate created by the present Government, which is at present about gale force 10, is stifling the great potential which is there. We must direct our resources away from a wasteful public sector. We must take Government from around the necks of the people. We must make our public service efficient and cut public expenditure in that area. The Government promised to do this but, as we have seen in the budget, they could not agree. We must put those resources into the creation of an economic climate which is conducive to industrial growth and development.

Take just one sector and a report brought out by the IDA last month. The report Consumer Foods — Ideas for Development should be closely studied by members of the Government. Let me quote from the first paragraph:

Food imports to Ireland in 1982 were valued at £750 million. Processed foods account for £425 million, with the remaining £320 million taken up by primary unprocessed food products.

On a number of occasions in this House I have called for the appointment of a Minister for Food to try to redress the ridiculous situation outlined in this report. I have called for an agricultural development organisation properly constituted under the umbrella of the IDA. I must compliment this body on this very useful and worthwhile report.

We see from the budget that the Government are not simply interested in taking action.

Look what we have done on the importation of potatoes. If the Deputy uses facts, he should use all of them.

The fact of the matter is that the Government's interest in the food processing industry is absolutely nil.

The one over the fence. He is playing ludo with himself.

That is indicated by the Government's failure to face up to the demands that have been made on them by the IDA——

That is wrong. That is clearly wrong and the Deputy knows that.

——to develop this sector.

The Deputy is not doing himself credit.

There are thousands and thousands of jobs to be created by the expansion——

The Deputy can do better than that. There is a better argument.

I know that this is annoying the Minister because it is true.

No, the Deputy can do better.

Thousands and thousands of jobs can be created in this area, but clearly we must look back to the latest effort by the Government — the budget. Where is the action? There is none.

The Potato Marketing Board.

The second area of Government action that I want to refer to——

That was the biggest scandal — potatoes being imported into the land of the famine.

——very quickly is with regard to specific action in various areas some of which I outlined in the Adjournment Debate before Christmas. I asked specifically that a number of measures be taken in the budget. Those included the extension of 10 per cent manufacturing corporation tax to the service industry such as international finance, insurance, reinsurance, data processes. I asked the Government specifically to introduce that measure. Clearly the IDA again have told this Government that this is the real growth area. There are examples of that throughout the country, but again their demands fell on deaf ears. The second point that I put forward was the motivation of Irish people to support Irish industries. Thirteen thousand jobs could be created if 500,000 households bought £1 more of Irish products. But the Minister, Deputy Bruton's reaction was that he could not have protectionism. I am not talking about protectionism — I am talking about motivating our people to be nationalistic. I am talking about putting resources into Irish industry. Indeed, coming up with the excuse——

Why did your Government not do that?

Let me finish. The excuse that it is against the European court decision taken some time ago is a lame one. We have only to examine what Britain is doing. Look at the Buy British Campaign. Look at the Food from Britain Campaign. Look at the policies of the French Government.

How many of the Deputy's constituents went up to Newry last week?

President Mitterand insists on any major sales being bought from an industry which has to be established in France. Look at the action of the French farmers last week. It is about time that we took off our kid gloves with regard to this problem. But clearly this Government are not motivated in that way.

The third point that I made before Christmas was the employment of young people by existing industry on a tax incentive basis. I suggested that a company should be allowed to pay a gross wage to young employees who would not be asked to pay either PAYE or PRSI for the first year of their employment and that they would not lose their social welfare entitlements, and that the company should be further compensated with corporation tax incentives. This is a direct opportunity to encourage companies to employ young people. The fourth was the payment of gratuities to married women who retire from their jobs after a specified period of marriage, together with an increased tax free allowance to the husband for a number of years after the wife's retirement, in order to make retirement attractive and to open up job opportunities for young people.

Acting Chariman

The Deputy has two minutes.

The effect of that proposal would be to entice more married people to get out of work within a number of years after marriage and make more job opportunities available. I could go on all night with such proposals. I am convinced that in 1984, without spending millions of pounds, those proposals would create employment. I am also convinced that this Government are not interested in such proposals. Their latest efforts are simply disappointing. In the budget statement, you will find that they are considering, examining, looking, reviewing, assessing. I describe this Government as a do-nothing administration. I warn them that the young people will not tolerate their neutral methods and these disappointments. They will not tolerate the excuses that the Government have come up with for 215,000 being unemployed. Unfortunately, there is no evidence to suggest that there will be any change in attitude on the part of this Government. There is no evidence to suggest that they are the slightest bit interested in the problems of the young people whom I have described. Not alone will young people not vote for them because of their actions but they are likely to take the law into their own hands because of their frustration.

Deputy Fahey's attack on the Government will not get us anywhere because I believe if the problem is to be solved it will be by the collective will of the people. That will have to happen in every city, town and village. The State can certainly help by providing incentives but the people must also have the will to create full employment. I believe that full employment is an achievable reality if we have the will to do so because there is plenty of work to be done and many people to do it. If there is plenty of work to do and plenty of people to do it why can we not get that equation right? However, as we know the equation is wrong and I wish to register my dissatisfaction with the high levels of unemployment.

We can go round in circles for years and blame whoever we wish but that will not solve anything because the real problem is unemployment. Many people suffer the demoralisation and loss of self-respect that goes with unemployment. Adrian Sinfield, a British sociologist, has done much research into unemployment and he says that in interview after interview the shame of unemployment is evident. He says that you do not really know what it is like to be unemployed until you have experienced it. We must provide for the needs of the people and one of the most basic needs is employment. If we cannot do this under our present structures we should set up new structures and institutions to cope with the problem. The Coalition Government during their short term in office have done good work in this area by setting up the Youth Employment Agency and in more recent times the Enterprise Allowance Scheme. Although the enterprise scheme is very good, the money allocated only provided for 500 people, there is now no more money and further applications cannot be considered. In the last two weeks two of my constituents told me they applied for this allowance but did not receive it and when I checked I found they were correct. The Minister for Finance said this money would be made available and I am urging that this be done as quickly as possible.

Without being dramatic, as we all know history has a very definite and unambiguous account of what happens when one generation is unmindful or blindfolds itself to the legitimate needs and aspirations of another. We have a young population teeming with energy, full of idealism and well disciplined who to date have been following the requests of society and have been amenable to the demands, exhortations and remonstrations of their parents, all aimed towards the promised land that we had held out for them, that when they had completed their education they would have a suitable opportunity of gaining worthwhile employment. Since 1982, when the Government took office on promises of inter alia halting and reversing unemployment generally, which at the time stood at 170,000, it has become obvious that they have failed in their hopes and aspirations and that they have not the capacity to deal with unemployment. My colleague, Deputy Gene Fitzgerald, in deference to his own wishes and those of our Front Bench and party tabled a very concerned, responsible and understandable motion. He asked the House to acknowledge that in respect of what the Government had promised they had failed and that they had failed to produce policies to provide employment opportunities for our young people. There was an amendment tabled which was as pathetic as the spokespeople representing our young people in the matter of providing employment. It is typical of the gobbledegook which has been coming from the Government and they have asked us to accept that the rate of growth in unemployment has been halved. They said that, with an adequate response from every section in the community, they will provide the necessary framework to combat unemployment.

I am going to do an extraordinary thing. In deference to the justification which we had for tabling this motion I am going to refer briefly to the understanding and acceptance of it which has come from the far side of the House. I do not speak in the remote past tense. Last week in this House the Tánaiste, in accepting the need for such a motion, referred to the fact that there was an unemployment crisis.

(Interruptions.)

Why then did the Government reject the terms of our motion? Why, a short time ago, did Deputy Birmingham ask us to avoid the temptation of treating this as party politics? Why does he not accept that the crisis exists? Why did he not make it his business to listen to the contributions of Deputies last night? The Minister charged with this responsibility came in here tonight and it was obvious that he has neither taken the time nor the interest to discover what has been said last night. He endeavoured to make his contribution by reacting to the ten minute contribution made by Deputy Albert Reynolds.

That is a further insult to our young people, but it is what the Minister did. His Junior Minister came in here last night and, in a manner befitting the L and H society, said there was no basis for what we were attempting to bring before the House even though, as I said, we had confirmation of it by the Tánaiste and last Thursday Deputy O'Donnell spoke of the crisis and his disappointment that nothing was being done. Tonight Deputy Prendergast and Deputy M. Barry were also concerned about unemployment. Nevertheless, the Minister and his assistant — assistant being a euphemism in this regard — told us that Fianna Fáil are talking about something which does not exist.

The contribution made last night by the Minister of State at the Department of Labour was the most insulting and smart alecky contribution I have ever heard. It showed his complete disregard for our young people. When we talk about young people we cannot forget their parents who have made great sacrifices to enable young people to engage in educational pursuits to prepare them to join the labour force. They are concerned about career guidance and getting points in their examinations. This year they had to pay £30 to sit for the leaving certificate examination. What is at the end of the road for them? Nothing. I could understand that up to a point if I saw the Government making some attempt to provide employment for them.

Listening to the Minister for Labour, Deputy Quinn, tonight one would think we had no Minister for Labour for the past 12 months. He was careful to avoid making any reference to any achievement by his predecessor. Last night the Minister of State told us what a nun had succeeded in doing in Limerick — and he seemed to take credit for it in his contribution — to satisfy the employment needs of our young people. Tonight the Minister for Labour mentioned something I never heard mentioned before. He said that in respect of obtaining employment we all knew education began only when you started to be employed. In answer to Deputy Reynolds he said he accepted that we must now be ready to take three different jobs in our lifetime. Is he suggesting there must be three different forms of education?

It was obvious to me that the Minister and the Minister of State saw this as an opportunity to indulge in talking about policies, to blame other Governments and to appeal to the community to solve their problems. They seem to forget that they are now where they were striving to be. They are in Government. It is their responsibility to indicate not only what they hope to do but what they have done. In the matter of providing employment I hope they will be able to go further than to commend the good nun of whose efforts on behalf of the young people in Limerick I am aware. That was the major contribution made by the Minister of State last night in a flippant and insulting contribution the likes of which I never heard before.

Tonight the Minister was equally disappointing. I appreciate that he has been travelling and, like the rest of us, he cannot be in two places at the one time but I would have been happier if he had indicated to the House the inhibitions he was faced with and if he accepted that the motion is a true reflection of the existing situation. That is what it is. I do not have to remind the Minister that last month the unemployment figure rose by 7,000. In a few months time the total unemployment figure will be 250,000, 80,000 of whom will be under 25 years of age. What are the Government doing to provide gainful occupations for those people?

Today we heard the pathetic offering by the Minister of State at the Department of Finance. He admitted to me that this year fewer people are employed in the Phoenix Park than last year. Young and old people are anxious to work in the Phoenix Park. Young people are anxious to pursue horticultural studies which would enable them to obtain gainful employment. The Phoenix Park is not just a park to which the people can have recourse. It is a worthwhile tourist attraction. Tourism should be our most attractive industry. We understand the economics of inviting people here to eat our food rather than exporting it and how wise it is to have meat available at home rather than sending it out on the hoof.

I am not talking about employing people for employment's sake. We know the potential that exists for involving many of our young people in operations which would help to make our country a centre of beauty and leisure which thousands of people could enjoy. Automatically this would help our economic position. The Government just go on referring to their reviews, the boards they are establishing and their commitment to A, B, C and D. There is no evidence that that commitment is bearing any worth-while fruit.

Most hypocritical of all was the attitude of the two spokesmen for the Department of Labour who tried to infer that Fianna Fáil were pursuing this matter for the sake of opposition and talking about something which does not exist. They tried to castigate us for turning this into a political matter. I notice that the Minister has been nodding his head to me since I started to speak.

Out of politeness I am not interrupting the Deputy.

The Minister interrupted other speakers and he was not reprimanded by the Chairmen. Will the Minister accept that our motion reflects the feelings of everybody in the House? Will the Minister exclude party politics and accept the motion?

We accepted two Seanad motions in the past 12 months.

I asked the Minister. I did not ask the Minister of State. The Minister is well able to speak for himself. The junior Minister had his opportunity last night and he made a damn bad job of it. I am asking the Minister who made the charge here tonight, in the near emergency which exists and in deference to the youth of Ireland about whom we hear so much, to accept the motion, perhaps excluding the word "deplore"? The evidence is there that the Government have not applied themselves to the task of providing jobs for our young people. Will the Minister accept the motion?

No, I will not.

The Minister will not accept it because he will not accept the reality. He is indulging in the spoofery we heard from him and he continues to live the lie. He will live the lie until such time as there are manifestations in the House which he can no longer contain. Young people have a sense of justice and a sense of idealism. Woe to the Minister who goes too far. Woe to the Minister who turns his back on them, wears a blindfold and takes refuge in a lot of clap-trap about something everybody knows he is not doing. I do not see any great difference between what the Minister claimed here tonight and what we suggest in the motion. He should show the understanding and magnanimity he would expect from others. He should accept the reality and the truth, and accept our motion.

Question put: "That the amendment be made".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 76; Níl, 69.

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Barnes, Monica.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Barry, Myra.
  • Barry, Peter.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Bermingham, Joe.
  • Birmingham, George Martin.
  • Boland, John.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Conlon, John F.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Cooney, Patrick Mark.
  • Cosgrave, Liam T.
  • Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
  • Coveney, Hugh.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crowley, Frank.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, Martin Austin.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dowling, Dick.
  • Doyle, Avril.
  • Doyle, Joe.
  • Dukes, Alan.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Farrelly, John V.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Sheehan, Patrick Joseph.
  • Skelly, Liam.
  • Spring, Dick.
  • Taylor, Mervyn.
  • Fennell, Nuala.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Glenn, Alice.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Hussey, Gemma.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • McCartin, Joe.
  • McGahon, Brendan.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McLoughlin, Frank.
  • Manning, Maurice.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Molony, David.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Naughten, Liam.
  • Nealon, Ted.
  • Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, Toddy.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Owen, Nora.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Prendergast, Frank.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Taylor-Quinn, Madeline.
  • Timmins, Godfrey
  • Treacy, Seán.
  • Yates, Ivan.

Níl

  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Michael.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Brennan, Mattie.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, John.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Ger.
  • Coughlan, Cathal Seán.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • De Rossa, Proinsias.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Fahey, Francis.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
  • Fitzsimons, Jim.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Gallagher, Pat Cope.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gregory-Independent, Tony.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hilliard, Colm.
  • Hyland, Liam.
  • Kirk, Séamus.
  • Kitt, Michael.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lyons, Denis.
  • McCarthy, Seán.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • Mac Giolla, Tomás.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Moynihan, Donal.
  • Nolan, M.J.
  • Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West)
  • O'Dea, William.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Keeffe, Edmond.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond J.
  • Ormonde, Donal.
  • O'Rourke, Mary.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael.
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Barrett(Dún Laoghaire) and Taylor; Níl, Deputies Briscoe and V. Brady.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.
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