asked the Minister for Defence if he is satisfied that Civil Defence resources are adequate to deal with the consequences of a nuclear attack.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Civil Defence.
2.
Dún Laoghaire): There are so many uncertain factors in relation to nuclear warfare and its consequences would be so diverse and catastrophic that no one could regard any amount of resources as adequate to deal with the threat of nuclear attack. Indeed, at or near a point of attack there is virtually no prospect of protection against the effects of nuclear weapons.
The primary response to this worldwide threat must be action directed towards eliminating the risk that nuclear weapons will ever be used deliberately or otherwise. In that regard successive Irish Governments have voiced their concern at the dangers inherent in the continued growth of nuclear armaments. They have consistently pursued efforts to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and to secure agreement on measures designed to reduce their number with a view to their eventual elimination.
Successive Governments have also seen the need to maintain a Civil Defence organisation for the purpose of mitigating the effects of any likely form of wartime threat on the civilian population. It is considered that the most likely form of hazard is not direct attack on this country but radioactive fall-out caused by nuclear explosives elsewhere. Civil Defence arrangements exist for warning the population, predicting and monitoring fall-out and advising the public regarding the steps necessary to survive.
Exactly what resources are provided for this purpose? While accepting that the Government are taking what steps they can to avoid such a catastrophe, would the Minister of State not agree that all possible steps must, nonetheless, be taken to alleviate the consequences of any such attack? In particular, how much money is spent for this purpose, how many staff are employed in dealing with it in the Department and does any liaison exist between the Departments of Defence, Health, Communications and Energy to deal with the consequences of such an attack, should it come? We might be on the fringes of it, but it would have dire consequences for large sections of our population.
That is quite a long question, Deputy.
It is rather a long question, but this is a diverse subject.
(Dún Laoghaire): Civil Defence planning does not rule out the possibility of direct nuclear strikes in this country. However, these are regarded as a possibility rather than a probability. Against any such attack there is virtually no protective action which could be taken, even with unlimited resources, except evacuation if this were feasible. The concentration of Civil Defence effort is directed towards protection against what is regarded as the most likely hazard for this country — namely, radioactive fall-out. The main components of the Civil Defence measures against the hazard of fall-out consist of a wartime warning and monitoring network. We have, as the Deputy is probably aware, a booklet entitled Bás Beatha which gives advice with regard to how private dwellings could be protected to form a possible shelter in the event of fall-out. We have a public information and advisory service. This is directed by the Civil Defence branch of the Department of Defence. The updated contents of Bás Beatha would provide the bulk of the information and advice to be conveyed.
With regard to resources, the Civil Defence organisation, directed and controlled by the Department of Defence and staffed mainly by volunteer personnel enrolled in the local authority based Civil Defence units, are financed by a specific provision under the Defence Vote and contributions from local authorities at an aggregate cost of approximately £2 million per annum. The main resources are personnel who are organised and trained to carry out a range of tasks particularly relevant to wartime emergency. Except in relation to the fall-out hazard, the organisation have only very limited resources in terms of premises and equipment. However, these are continuously under review and, as resources become available, every effort will be made to increase the facilities made available to Civil Defence.
Are there any contingency plans in the Department of Defence to cover, for example, a situation in which central Government would break down——
It already has.
——requiring Government to be organised on a local basis——
Something is stirring over there. Where are all the Members?
Does any contingency plan exist in the Department for such an eventuality? Are there any contingency plans in the Department to organise such matters as the distribution of food, should that be necessary, and medical services and supplies, should they become necessary?
(Dún Laoghaire): Yes, there are contingency plans drawn up involving a number of Departments. The personnel involved meet on a regular basis to update these plans. I would also point out that the wartime warning and monitoring network is comprised of Department of Defence personnel, the Army Observer Corps and elements of the Garda Síochána, the Meterological Service, Irish Lights, RTE, certain local authority personnel and volunteer personnel of the Civil Defence warden service. It includes radiation protection, national, regional and county control centres with communication links and a broadcasting facility from the national control. Its equipment includes radiation measurment instruments. Also, the network is tested once a year through national fall-out exercises and I must say that these exercises have been performed very well to date in the various tests carried out.
What has been the increase in the financial contribution made by the Government to the Department of Defence in both providing and updating Civil Defence resources this year as against last year?
(Dún Laoghaire): I do not have the exact figures available. There has been a small percentage increase for 1984 over 1983 and I shall give the Deputy that information, if he so wishes.
That information is in the Book of Estimates which came out last week.
In the event of a nuclear disaster here, would the Minister inform the House where the national control centre would be located?
In Athlone.
It is in Athlone. The Deputy can give me the key.
The Minister and I will run the centre.
Is the Athlone centre to which the Minister has referred located in the basement of one of the billets of the barracks and has it now been properly equipped to meet the needs of such a tragedy?
(Dún Laoghaire): The Deputy will appreciate that for security reasons much of this information is not made public. As a former Minister for Defence himself he will appreciate the reasons for that. However, as I said earlier, in the event of a holocaust there are no adequate facilities available to cater for such a disaster.
The fall-out that the Minister himself mentioned?
(Dún Laoghaire): We concentrate mainly on fall-out. I am quite satisfied that every effort is being made to cover that area adequately.
3.
asked the Minister for Defence the publications that are available for members of the public, giving general information and advice on civil defence; and if such publications give detailed and comprehensive information on the effects of nuclear fall-out and protective measures to be taken.
(Dún Laoghaire): The main publication is my Department's booklet, Bás Beatha, which is available to the public free of charge. The booklet gives detailed and comprehensive information on the effects of nuclear fall-out and the protective measures to be taken against that hazard. The published information can be supplemented by direct inquiry to the local Civil Defence organisation or, if necessary, to the Civil Defence branch of the Department of Defence.
In the near future it is intended to distribute to schools an information package on Civil Defence which will provide resource material to teachers who will be encouraged to include Civil Defence as a topic in the civics course for junior cycle pupils. The contract for the production of the major part of this package has already been placed.
The Department of Defence welcomes public interest in Civil Defence and I would suggest that the best possible way of becoming knowledgeable on these matters would be a period of enrolment in the Civil Defence volunteer organisation. In that regard, we ask every Member of the House to encourage members of the public to support and join the Civil Defence organisation, even for a short period.
Could I ask the date on which that booklet was published? Would the Minister of State agree that it warrants a new edition and updating? Would he not agree that it would warrant a wider circulation than it has at present? Would he consider making arrangements to have it circulated, at least to local authorities, residents' associations, tenants' associations and as large a number as possible of local groupings?
(Dún Laoghaire):Bás Beatha was originally issued in 1965 when approximately 700,000 copies were distributed. Further distributions were made in 1968 and 1972 to houses built since the previous issue. In other words, the previous issue was sent to every household. Copies are handed out to the public at various Civil Defence presentations throughout the country and are made available to individuals on request, free of charge. The information contained in the booklet is still substantially correct. A review of the booklet which is being undertaken is aimed principally at providing a slightly expanded and more modern presentation of the information.
There are various other options for spreading the essential information as and when circumstances demand, many of which would be more effective than presentation of the information again in booklet form. The Deputy may be assured that the updated version of Bás Beatha will be made available as he has requested.
Would the Minister not agree that his replies to this question and the previous one indicate a rather pathetic response to the dangers, slight though we hope they are, to the risk of a holocaust? Surely he is not telling the House that a booklet on this subject which was published in 1965 could be in any way up to date or include an assessment of the risks and dangers involved in this situation at the end of 1984. Would the Minister not agree also that it is entirely inadequate to say that the last distribution took place in 1972? Would he not consider arranging a distribution now to all possible local groupings, to residents' and tenants' associations and so on?
(Dún Laoghaire): On my coming to office I asked for an updated version of Bás Beatha and that updating is being undertaken. I accept that there should have been a review before now but I do not accept that the resources in the area of providing for a nuclear holocaust are pathetic. No country has resources that would be adequate to deal with a holocaust caused by a nuclear attack. As I have said before, this country has been to the forefront in trying to promote what successive Governments have regarded as the ultimate solution to this problem, that is, total disarmament.
We cannot rely on that.
(Dún Laoghaire): In the meantime we can only deal with the realities. The probability is that if we were to suffer from a nuclear attack it would be by way of fall-out. I am satisfied that every effort is being made on a continuous basis to update, to co-operate with other Departments and to ensure that every possible means is available to deal with fall-out should such a holocaust occur.
Is the Minister aware of the ever growing public awareness of the seriousness of a nuclear holocaust, whether by way of fall-out or otherwise, and has he or the Department any proposals to promote Civil Defence by way of co-ordination with the various other voluntary organisations, many of which have units in the various towns and parishes throughout the country?
(Dún Laoghaire): There is tremendous co-operation between Civil Defence and the other voluntary organisations particularly in rural Ireland but in urban areas also. Such bodies as the Order of Malta, the Irish Red Cross, St. John Ambulance Brigade of Ireland and so on co-operate extensively with Civil Defence in this area. In addition, the local authority network is used extensively in this regard.
Perhaps the Minister would expand on that.
(Dún Laoghaire): If the necessity to expand any of the areas of co-operation become apparent, that would be done so far as Civil Defence are concerned. There is no danger that they would regard themselves as an individual organisation totally separate from other voluntary organisations whose aims are similar.
Have the Department carried out any assessment of the possibility of fall-out arising from an accident or an explosion at some of the British nuclear power stations affecting people in this country? Have the Department been in touch with the British authorities in regard to carrying out such an assessment?
(Dún Laoghaire): There has been contact with the British on this matter and co-operation in that respect will continue.