Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 4 Dec 1984

Vol. 354 No. 7

Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take Nos. 3, 4 and 11. Private Members' Business shall be No. 73. By agreement and notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders the following arrangements shall apply today:

(1) Items 3 and 4 shall be taken together for the purpose of debate. The proceedings on these items shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 7 p.m. and the Minister for the Public Service shall be called on to conclude not later than 6.50 p.m.

(2) The proceedings on the Second Stage of the Registration of Potato Growers and Potato Packers Bill, 1984, shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 10.30 p.m. and the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture shall be called on to conclude not later than 10.20 p.m.

Also by agreement the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. today and not later than 11 p.m. and business shall be interrupted at 10.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the arrangements as outlined for today's sittings for the taking of business agreed?

Agreed.

Mr. Lenihan

On the Order of Business, in view of its important effect on the economy, would the Tánaiste or the Minister for Finance make a full statement to the House on the recent bank rate increase of up to 2 per cent? Would the Tánaiste or the Minister for Finance indicate the reasons behind this increase, in a period of declining interest rates in all Western European and North American economies?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is not in order.

Mr. Lenihan

Is the Tánaiste or the Minister for Finance aware of the further implications in this case, for mortgage rates, in particular?

An Ceann Comhairle

Would the Deputy please listen to the Chair? If the Deputy wants to have a debate on that subject, he should talk to the Whips.

Mr. Lenihan

If this Dáil is to be a meaningful Parliament, matters of this importance should be discussed here.

Mr. Connolly

It is affecting the pockets of all the people.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chairman is bound by Standing Orders.

The Tánaiste

This matter can be discussed between the Whips.

Mr. Lenihan

That was all I wanted to know, from the Tánaiste, not the Chair, that the House would have an opportunity of discussing it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The proper way to go about it would be to have the matter discussed between the Whips.

Mr. Lenihan

We can arrange a debate on this important matter between the Whips.

Mr. V. Brady

May I be permitted to point out that the Whips did discuss this matter last week, but the Government will not allow time for a debate?

The Tánaiste

The Whips can resume discussions.

Mr. D. Andrews

As a lone voice from the back benches, would the Chair be good enough to allow me to raise on the Adjournment the question of the tree felling and on-going trespass at Dorney Court in Shankill? Is the House aware that the Dublin County Council——

An Ceann Comhairle

I shall communicate with the Deputy on that question.

Mr. D. Andrews

——that there has been an interim injunction sought in the court today to prevent tree felling and development generally of this site?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is now treading on dangerous ground.

Mr. D. Andrews

I am most anxious to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. Dukes

The Deputy is getting to the root of the matter.

Dr. McCarthy

May I ask, on the order of Business, why the Chair refused my Private Notice Question to the Minister for Social Welfare as to why he had refused to give double payment at Christmas to the unemployed?

Mr. Molony

For the very same reason as your party gave.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy McCarthy, my secretary privately conveyed my reason for doing so.

Dr. McCarthy

These people are being treated as second class citizens by this Government. May I raise the matter on the Adjournment?

Dr. Woods

This is not an ordinary matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will communicate with Deputy McCarthy.

Dr. Woods

It is of the utmost importance that the Government should give this double payment to the unemployed.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy McCarthy has requested permission to raise that subject on the Adjournment and I shall communicate with him.

Mr. Dukes

Deputy Woods is late.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

I want to refer to the statement by the Department of Health on the closure of eight psychiatric hospitals.

An Ceann Comhairle

Could the Deputy ask a question, please?

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

I am very concerned about the effect on the Southern Health Board area of these threatened closures. There is an obligation to look after these poor people.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot make a speech.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

I just want to make a point.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can make a request.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

Would the Minister name the eight psychiatric hospitals which are to be closed and those relevant to the constituency of East Cork and the Southern Health Board area? This is very important. We cannot have this type of thing.

An Ceann Comhairle

Would Deputy O'Keeffe please resume his seat?

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

I will resume my seat.

Mr. Aylward

On the Order of Business, in view of the fact that a receiver has been appointed to the Clover Meats Group in Waterford and that £1.5 million in cheques issued by the company have not been honoured, I ask the Minister for Agriculture and the Government to give a commitment that these cheques will be honoured, because £7 million is——

Mr. Connolly

This is a very important issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is very familiar. It was suggested by Deputy Haughey. It is not relevant.

Mr. Molony

The Deputy should send a letter to Santa Claus.

Mr. Aylward

I ask the Minister to take over the group in view of the confidence of the suppliers——

An Ceann Comhairle

I must ask the Deputy to resume his seat. I am calling Deputy Dowling.

Mr. Aylward

Despite Deputy Molony's remarks about Santa Claus, there are people who are £20,000 to £30,000 out of pocket in this case.

Mr. Dowling

On a similar subject as that raised by Deputy Aylward, I ask permission from the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the question why cheques issued by Clover Meats on 23 November were not honoured.

An Ceann Comhairle

I shall communicate with Deputy Dowling. I am now calling Deputy Wilson.

Mr. Wilson

In view of the fact that some of the shipping interests have stated that they made a proposal to save Irish Shipping, would the Tánaiste make an opportunity for the House to debate this problem and to get details of the proposals, as the taxpayer is heavily involved?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not in order, Deputy, to raise this matter here. There is a question on the Order Paper put down by Deputy Reynolds.

Mr. Wilson

In view of the general interest in Irish Shipping, perhaps the appointment of an official liquidator could be adjourned?

Mr. Tunney

With your permission, I should like to raise on the Adjournment — and this is my third request in this matter — the case of a man confined to a wheelchair who has had his mobility and domiciliary allowances withdrawn, apparently as he has help——

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Item No. 3.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

On a point of order——

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Aylward

I also wish to raise on the Adjournment the matter referred to by Deputy Dowling.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a point of order at this time.

Mr. Connolly

What is the position with regard to Kinnitty Castle in County Offaly which it was proposed to use as a detention centre? Have the Government agreed to our request not to proceed with this detention centre?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order Paper.

Mr. Molony

The Deputy is a week late.

Mr. Connolly

Have the Government succumbed again? Have they backed out and run for cover again?

An Ceann Comhairle

I should like the Deputy to resume his seat.

Mr. Connolly

Certainly. The Government threw in the towel.

Mr. N. Andrews

I wish to raise on the Adjournemnt the closure of banking and postal facilities in the Ballymun area.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Kirk

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the serious and deteriorating unemployment situation in Dundalk. The footwear industry and the electronics industry, ECCO——

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. B. Ahern

What is the position regarding the EC directive for social welfare recipients? It was stated recently that legislation had to be passed before 1 January. Will it be taken in conjunction with the employment scheme for a two and a half day working week? Will both these Bills be taken before the recess?

The Tánaiste

Legislation is being prepared in relation to the directive and I assume it will be before the House as soon as possible. I cannot give the Deputy an exact date but I will communicate with the Deputy later in the day.

Mr. B. Ahern

In relation to the scheme——

The Tánaiste

I will communicate with the Deputy on both matters.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

I am disappointed at the absence of the Minister for Health. Will he give the names of the eight psychiatric hospitals which are to be closed?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is grossly disorderly.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

It is very relevant to my constituency.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will resume his seat.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

Why will he name the hospitals that will be closed in the House rather than have them named in public?

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy does not sit down it is not hospitals that will be named.

Mr. Deasy

Tá siad ag teacht.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

What about small farmers in Waterford? The Deputy is the Minister for Agriculture. The Minister and his Department are a disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy O'Keeffe will leave the House if he cannot conduct himself.

Mr. P. Gallagher

I wish to ask the Tánaiste and Ministers for Labour, Public Service and Finance if they are aware of the pending strike by Customs and Excise officers. The Ceann Comhairle's constituency will suffer. No action has been taken by the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not orderly.

Mr. P. Gallagher

They have taken no action to try to avert the impending strike on Friday. The Border will be wide open.

An Ceann Comhairle

This does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. P. Gallagher

If we were running this show as a business we would not be making a profit. There is no use locking the stable when the horse has gone. We have an opportunity to take action before Friday to ensure that the Chair's constituency and my constituency and every Border county will not be disastrously affected economically. I suppose we will not take the opportunity but will speak about it next week when it is too late. There is an obligation on the shoulders of the Chair as well.

An Ceann Comhairle

If Deputy Gallagher has something he wanted attended to I am perfectly satisfied that he would take steps to have it attended to. If he wants Standing Orders changed he should move towards that end.

Mr. P. Gallagher

Is the Chair aware that the Border will be open?

Dr. McCarthy

Will the Minister for Social Welfare amend his decision and tell the House he will give a double payment to the unemployed at Christmas?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has already given notice that he wants to raise that matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. De Rossa

Will any of the three Children Bills or the family planning legislation which has been promised for some time be introduced before Christmas? If not, when might we expect to have them?

Mr. Connolly

The Deputy will not hear any more about that.

The Tánaiste

The legislation which the Deputy referred to will be introduced as soon as possible.

Mr. P. Gallagher

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the repercussions which the pending strike on Friday will have on the economy and in particular on the economy of the Border counties.

An Ceann Comhairle

I take it that is the strike the Deputy spoke about earlier. I will communicate with the Deputy. I will be moving on to business very soon.

Mr. R. Burke

This is business. Every Deputy has mentioned very serious business. Will the Tánaiste make a statement to the House on the rumour that the Government have decided to increase the take of local authority rents by as much as 20 per cent in 1985?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. R. Burke

This is a very serious decision which was taken by the Government. The Tánaiste is shaking his head. Will he confirm or deny that a decision has been taken to increase it by 20 per cent?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not allowing that question. It is not in order.

Mr. R. Burke

Will the leader of the Labour Party confirm or deny that?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not allowing him to.

Mr. R. Burke

There is a 20 per cent increase in the rents for local authority tenants in 1985. The Tánaiste is shaking his head. Stand up and deny it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not allowing him to do that. The Deputy is being grossly disorderly and I ask him to resume his seat.

Mr. R. Burke

Is the Tánaiste denying that they have taken that decision?

Mr. Boland

It is not the first time the Deputy got his figures wrong.

Mr. R. Burke

Is the Tánaiste denying it?

Dr. McCarthy

They will announce it at the weekend.

Mr. Lenihan

They will announce it on Christmas Eve.

Proinsias De Rossa

In relation to my earlier question, will the Tánaiste be more specific and say if the legislation will be introduced before the recess.

The Tánaiste

It depends on the definition of "as soon as possible". It is hoped to have legislation before Christmas but I still qualify it by saying as soon as possible.

Mr. Lenihan

This is a Government of no legislation.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am moving on to business.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will resume his seat.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

On a point of order——

Mr. Quinn

Interpreters, please.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am warning the Deputy that if he is disorderly again I will have to name him. Item No. 3.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

I am appealing to the Chair on a point of order. As regards the Southern Health Board, the Minister has come into the House——

An Ceann Comhairle

I name Deputy O'Keeffe and call on the Tánaiste to move his suspension from the House.