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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 5 Feb 1985

Vol. 355 No. 7

Financial Resolutions, 1985. - Financial Resolution No. 9: General (Resumed.).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Finance.)

Last week I spoke about the difficulties which the building industry would experience particularly in relation to the imposition of the extra 5 per cent VAT. As it has transpired I do not need to say anything more about that because it has become a matter of widespread concern. The Minister is still arguing about whether the increase will be £750 on a £30,000 house or £630. It would appear as if the Revenue Commissioners have been carrying on a practice which differs from what the Minister has been saying in the House. That is a matter which can be settled now. If the Minister is correct it may well be that builders will be due a rebate of tax. As far as the purchaser is concerned, it is clear that the net extra cost will be somewhere in the region of £630 to £750.

Building societies would need approximately ½ per cent per annum or £12 per month of an increase in mortgage rates to meet the increased tax being imposed on them. I do not need to say anything more about that now because others have become aware of it. The Minister will have to see what can be done to ease that burden.

On 24 January this year, in a speech made by the Minister for the Environment on building societies, he said they were the major providers of mortgage finance and that their contribution had been one of the most important elements in the success of the housing programme over the years. He pointed out that in 1984 they provided loans at least equal to and probably exceeding the £406 million of loans provided in 1983. He said he would like to acknowledge the commendable restraint which the building societies had shown in relation to interest rates. For showing such commendable restraint the Government imposed an extra ½ per cent tax on them.

The more I look at the budget the more I realise it will result in widespread poverty and increased emigration. The Government plan to export unemployment and throw away our trained and educated manpower. The policy should be to encourage our young people to stay at home and sell abroad. The Government's approach and that of some of our prominent businessmen has been to tell our youth to go abroad and find work, but I would say to them to stay here and sell abroad. We need young people with ability to find new markets and we should support and encourage them to go out and do so.

The family has been particularly badly hit by the Government's economic strategy. Families need jobs, reasonable living costs and adequate supports. As far as jobs are concerned, the prospects are bleak. The Government must be reeling from the increase in the end January unemployment figures. From what we hear it seems as if there will be a further increase. The 10 per cent increase in footwear costs is another blunder on the part of the Minister. He does not realise how important this is to the family. From the ages of 12 years onwards young people can go through shoes in three or four months. The Minister must not realise that. The family is being hit hard. The cost of fuel, clothes, housing and mortgages will all rise.

One significant omission in the Minister's statement was any reference to children's allowance. This has been reduced in real terms by 24 per cent or almost one quarter since Fianna Fáil left office. The basis for that is the inflation rate in that period. In 1982 the rate was £11.25 per child per month. At that time we had just increased the rate from £6 and £9 to £11, an increase of 30 per cent. We did that because the allowance was so small in comparison with our European partners. At the time Deputy Desmond, now Minister for Social Welfare, said it should be £11.25 a week and not £11.25 a month. No increase was given in 1983. The allowance should have been increased to £16.13 in 1983 to take the 17 per cent inflation rate into account. However, it was not increased at all. In 1984 an increase of 7 per cent was given but it was delayed. This is a delayed action Government. As far as the poor are concerned everything is delayed action. The miserable increase of £1 given in the fuel allowance has been delayed until October. However there is no delay when the Government are taking in money.

In 1984 the Government gave an increase of 7 per cent but it was delayed until August. The allowances were increased to £12.05 for the first five children. There is an increased rate for other children. That increase was given against an inflation rate of 10½ per cent. It should have been £14.54. For 1985 we have no increase in the children's allowance although we had an 8½ per cent increase in inflation. To keep in line with inflation the children's allowance should be £15.78 instead of £12.05. It is important that people realise that this is a major transfer of resources to families. The present situation illustrates the way in which the Government are treating families.

When the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism made a point about all that the Government have done, it was amusing to hear him go back to 1981 for his figures. The Minister had to do that to show any real increase. Ever since 1982 the poor have been losing in real terms and families in general have been losing. It may be possible for the Minister to cod the public on radio and television with the assistance of his public relations team but when he comes into the House he must face the reality.

In relation to the provision of employment the prospects are bleak. There were no prospects for real jobs in the budget. The Government should concentrate in the area of selling abroad. The people who have gone abroad and set up markets for themselves are the people who get the least State assistance. We should give more support in that area. For instance we should use some of the youth employment money and transfer it to CTT so that they could train about 500 young people in overseas selling and then let them go abroad to see the markets and get on-the-job training so that they would come back in a position to assist in small business development here. There is a great opportunity for the development of smaller businesses based on natural resources. Many of the people who have set up small businesses here worked with CTT and got their experience overseas. A scheme such as I have suggested would have to be structured and we would have to be sure to get commitments from the people to be trained that they would work here afterwards for some time, but those are details that could be worked out if the principle were accepted. It is a question of developing our expertise in one area in which we are most lacking.

I have been very concerned about the direction of Government policy in relation to private business particularly in the area of the health services where the Minister for Health seems to want to centralise everything. In our health services at the moment we have a mixture of State and private enterprise. There is scope to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of our health services and to provide much needed financial support. It is obvious that the Minister is trying to nationalise the health services to the maximum possible extent. That can be seen from what is happening with the VHI who are being put under tremendous pressure because of the Minister's refusal to allow private hospital on grounds that were provided. In relation to Beaumont Hospital, I as Minister provided to site for a private hospital alongside the public hospital but the Minister, Deputy Desmond, revoked that decision. There would have been very little cost to the State and there would have been many benefits to the public in having a private hospital on the same campus as the public hospital. What is now happening is that the private hospital which was being developed in the south side of the city is attracting the consultants. If the consultants are on the south side they will not be where the public hospital is, and all the things that we said would be likely to happen are now happening. These things will continue to happen more and more because this Minister is suppressing the development of private enterprise in that area.

During the last year the Irish Health Services Development Corporation was set up in recognition of the need to establish structurally strong Irish companies especially in the export area.

The Deputy has six minutes left.

This company was set up to add momentum to the existing public and private enterprise in this area. I noticed recently that they managed to secure a contract in Saudi Arabia. This was lauded in a newspaper article and in their newsletter of 11 January 1985. A contract was in for £61 million to run this fine new hospital, and as the lowest bidder at £21.6 million, they won the contract. The Minister for Finance should have a very close look at what is happening there. It should not be our policy to sell our labour over-cheaply abroad just to turn up some figures. I note that recruitment is taking place at the moment through this IHSDC and the recruitment is being done in competition with the other groups such as PARK, Irish Health Care, Irish Nursing Services and so on, who are already in that area. One wonders why it is not possible to make use of these services when a contract has been developed. It may well be that they have left themselves so tight on the contract price that this is not feasible. This will have to be watched very closely. It is a major area which has been developing a great deal in recent years and which is very welcome. The role and function of such bodies as this, set up by the NDC, would want to be studied very carefully.

I said that the Minister made a major blunder as regards the building industry. As I understand it, at the moment house sales are suspended and the future looks bleak. The Minister will have to rectify his mistake and repair the damage he has done. At present there are 45,000 unemployed in the building industry. The latest step can only lead to further unemployment. What we could foresee happening has now been admitted — the Minister's action has put a ½ per cent on to mortgage rates and his earlier borrowing policies forced the rate up another 1½ per cent. This means that a 2 per cent increase is imminent. The 1½ per cent increase may be temporary, but the ½ per cent increase is permanent. The Minister should review his policy in that regard.

We see in this budget no plan for creating real jobs or for the development of our natural resources and no hope for the unemployed. These are this Coalition Government's forgotten people. They have to suffer the increased costs of fuel, clothing and footwear and yet are getting only a 6 per cent increase, again put back to 1 July next. That is the equivalent of 4 per cent for the rest of the year. There is no increase in their children's allowances.

In relation to the building industry in particular, the Minister should recognise and correct his blunder. The interesting point is that now secondhand houses are not affected. There is only a 4 per cent stamp duty on these, so their prices have improved by 6 per cent over the prices of new housing.

In the Justice area, I would be concerned about where the £28.6 million cuts will come. There is to be a £30 million cut in the public service pay area. This could affect the Garda with regard to overtime and availability. I have learned that the Department Estimates were frozen yesterday while the Government work out further cutbacks. The budget is very disappointing in relation to the objectives of employment creation and protection of the less well-off in these very difficult times.

I give this budget a very general welcome, not just because it deals with many specific problems articulated for some time by Members on both sides of this House, but because its clear approach is one of structural tax reform. One of my disappointments with the national plan was that it did not deal with tax reform at all, but this budget responds to that need. The case for tax reform goes back a long time. The late seventies saw huge masses protesting on the streets for reform of our tax system. As a response to that, the Commission on Taxation were established and subsequently produced a number of reports, the first and third of which are the most significant. The first report is on direct taxation and the third on indirect spending taxation. This budget goes half-way towards meeting these two reports. By rationalising six rates of income tax and six of VAT down to three in each case the way will be left open towards going the one further step opened up by the Commission on Taxation, that of having one rate of income tax and one of VAT. The criteria laid down, of simplicity, equity and efficiency in our tax code, are now being met. There will be greater efficiency from the point of view of the taxpayer, those in small businesses who have to do the tax collection, either for their employees or the business, and the Revenue authorities.

Tax reform never has meant and never will mean tax reduction. That is a misnomer. There were a number of significant reasons that this budget could not and should not have been a giveaway one. First, 1985 is a particularly difficult year as regards the bulge in debt services, especially on foreign loans. This was no year in which to embark upon a procedure of widening the Exchequer borrowing account to any great extent. There are crucial economic problems because of our dependency ratio of 70 per cent, which is unique in western Europe. One million of our people are at school and cannot produce anything. One must also include all those dependent on social welfare, the elderly and so forth. It is because of our unique dependency ratio that there was not room for manoeuvre. In relation to the overall fiscal stance of this Government, the time is not yet ripe for a giveaway budget.

Dealing specifically with tax reform, we have, first, income tax. All taxpayers will benefit under present incomes. Tax free allowances and tax bands have been improved and the rates have been reduced to 35, 48 and 60 per cent. This will solve some of the problems resulting from the income tax code, the first of which is that we have one of the highest rates of absenteeism in Europe. We saw the Travenol experience recently, with 20 per cent absenteeism. We are half way towards solving the problem. Why is absenteeism so prominent? The principal underlying reason was the narrowness of the 35 per cent tax band, which means that it pays people in the last six to ten weeks of the tax year to leave work in order to get a tax rebate. This budget has widened the 35 per cent band by 12½ per cent and will deal directly with the absenteeism problem.

In terms of international trade we are talking about unit cost production and absenteeism costs money within those units. It must be dealt with. I agree totally with this Government's stance in relation to prior consideration being given to absenteeism records before any IDA grant aid is given. Employers will not talk about absenteeism because if reflects poorly on their management performance.

The second positive response in the income tax code is plugging of the brain drain. In our work on the Committee on Small Businesses, we had access to a survey among the key technology personnel and key marketing and management personnel in a number of firms who had left this country and gone abroad. The abolition of the 65 per cent tax band will be crucial in this regard. I was recently at a conference hosted by the Confederation on Electronic Information. One IDA representative at the conference said that he was recently in the United States and saw a particularly crucial technological engineering post vacancy. Of the 28 applications, 12 were from Irish people. There is an incredible rate of emigration of extremely mobile and skilled personnel that this country so badly needs. It is hoped that the abolition of the top rate of tax will deal with that. It will also deal with another huge problem. Whatever else about international statistics, the number of man days lost through strikes last year went up to 43,500. That was a substantial increase and one of the reasons, in my view, was that in many firms there were pay disputes because any increase given by the employers meant so little increase in take-home pay. It is perfectly reasonable that employees should be dissatisfied at that. It is to be hoped that the modifications will also deal with that and that the more one earns the more one keeps.

The general exemption limits being increased for the low paid are particularly welcome, as are the age exemption limits for old age pensioners many of whom have a contributory or retirement old age pension and a superannuation pension from their previous work place. That will not now be taxed as severely as heretofore. These are modest changes but given the Minister's lack of room to manoeuvre they maximise its effect cost-wise in the best possible way.

In relation to VAT, in the second report of the Joint Committee on Small Businesses we said that the six rates of VAT were untenable and unviable and that they should be rationalised into three. I am particularly delighted that they have been so rationalised. I might give those who have not worked in the retail sector an example. If one is a draper and happens to sell household towels, sheets, sportwear, fur coats or other types of ordinary clothing, one had to complete forms in respect of five different rates of VAT, with every item sold being entered in a different column causing huge problems in regard to paperwork alone. This will now be covered by a single rate of VAT for most of those items and, in the case of the remainder, 23 per cent which will eliminate a bugbear for many smaller retailers.

In relation to the cross-Border situation we estimated — in our study of the black economy, when we had the Revenue Commissioners sitting on the benches opposite, and having heard their complacent attitude in regard to cross-Border trade — the losses to be of the order of £300 million in illegal and legal imports. There is no doubt that the black hole through which those funds fell will become considerably smaller by the 50 per cent reduction in excise duties on televisions and by the reduction in the 35 per cent top rate of VAT.

There were many capital goods and raw materials for industry subjected to VAT at 35 per cent which caused huge cash flow problems for companies, and delays in VAT rebates, which in turn meant unemployment was a factor in many of those companies purely because of cash flow considerations. The overall effect of the changes in VAT rates is that the Minister is giving away £9.2 million, which is very modest. Fianna Fáil naively put forward the point that the Minister will take in £122.6 million extra in VAT revenue next year and that he is giving nothing away. If Fianna Fáil's basic understanding of arithmetic and net returns on volume sales is that poor, if they do not understand that £10 will buy one less now than £10 bought last year, or more importantly that it will take more than £10 to buy the same goods next year, they cannot base their criticism on that type of fictitious response.

The retail sector of the electrical industry will benefit particularly from the effects of this budget. The combined effects of these two areas of reform — income tax and VAT — will be such that first of all we shall have an increase in net disposable incomes for the first time in four years. Net disposable incomes are due to rise by 1½ per cent to 2 per cent. Real incomes have dropped by 10 per cent over the last four years. Generally speaking, everybody has had less money in his pocket and the real purchasing power of that money is less than it was ten years ago. That trend will be reversed under the provisions of this budget. The single greatest ingredient to the success and expansion of the service and retail sector is the amount of disposable incomes in circulation. They will benefit greatly from this budget. This budget will have a minimal effect on inflation, a quarter of one per cent, the lowest for many years, which will ensure that competitiveness is restored and the necessary climate for enterprise and expansion created.

In those comments I have dealt with what is contained in the budget. For the remainder of my contribution I shall deal with unemployment. We have seen the figure this week of 234,000 constituting the biggest single social problem we have at present. If one looks at the OECD figures of 31 million unemployed, or the EC figure of 13 million unemployed, one will realise that this problem is not unique to us. I would be the last among politicians to hesitate to tell the truth about unemployment and the difficulties we have in relation to our young population.

I should like to put forward some suggestions in relation to the creation of jobs and the possibilities therefor in our economy. Before doing so I shall make two brief points. One is that perhaps more beneficial to employment than anything in the budget was the announcement by the Minister for Energy of a 6 per cent reduction in ESB charges, being reduced to 2 per cent for smaller users. The second point is that, while there is an air of depression, a drop in morale and in confidence, the fact is that job losses in 1982 amounted to 38,800, in 1983 they dropped to 28,000 and last year to 17,400. That is not good news but the bad news is less so and is abating. There are 15,000 extra school leavers seeking jobs. We have never had the type of employment creation record that can sustain that type of job record. Changes in technology have a direct bearing on this. There is need for a new move in relation to employment creation policy. When one speaks to the State's best experts in employment creation one foresees two difficulties. The first is that years ago, through the IDA, we offered the best capital grant aid, 10 per cent corporation profits tax, and we were ahead of our competitors in attracting investment. Now the Welsh and Scottish development agencies are competing with 10 per cent corporation profits tax. Given our peripheral location in Europe we find it particularly difficult to attract investment. Fixed investment was down 2 per cent in 1984. Foreign investment in terms of manufacturing industry has been down in terms of new industry. We must ask ourselves where have we gone wrong? The fact is that our competitors have caught up with us and to get ahead of the posse again we must think up new policies. That is the first difficulty I foresee. The second difficulty I foresee is that in this industry, and perhaps within this Government, we have an ideological conflict between what is to be done about the future role of job creation. Some people insist that it must be effected through greater State enterprise. Others insist on a total dependence on the private sector. I believe that those two difficulties combined — the paralysis of other countries getting their act together in industrial development and the ideological conflict we have had — have resulted in a lack of progress.

I should like to put forward this afternoon a new policy for job creation in relation to a third sector. We talk about the private sector and the public sector. There is a third sector, the joint venture, partnership, sector between the State and industry, not based on any ideological conflict. I should like to specify in some detail how I foresee this working. There are three principal areas, firstly in relation to infrastructure and capital expenditure. There is the whole joint venture area in which I shall outline some detailed areas for job creation between the State and the private sector. The second area is to be found among semi-State bodies — the losses and problems encountered there, their future and the role of partnership in that third sector. Finally there is the National Development Corporation with new potential, opening up new opportunities, a way in which partnership between private enterprise and the public sector can be worked to create jobs.

Firstly, I should like to turn to joint ventures. If we take the £420 million allocated under the national plan for the roads plan and roads programme we will see there are on the table approximately six potential developments for toll facilities for roads. We have seen already the East Link development. I understand that at present there are detailed negotiations being finalised for the Navan-Lucan by-pass with a bridge across the Liffey, in respect of which planning problems must be overcome. The East Link development speaks for itself. The private sector having had the go-ahead from the State, incurred the necessary expenditure and, through their own company, recoup that expenditure through tolls. There is another area of joint venture there. For example, take the town of Athlone or, say, Wexford. Let us say there is a desperate need for a by-pass road around those towns. If this was done on a toll basis it would be only 60 per cent viable. What do we do in such circumstances? Do we wait until the State has all the money to construct that by-pass itself? Do we neglect the possibility of tolls?

There is a new formula which should be available under which the Wexford town by-pass would be 60 per cent viable and 40 per cent would be put up by the State. It would be quite simple to work it up as a limited liability company. The Government would put 40 per cent up front. The rest would be put up by the contractor or developer and the percentage of the return on the tolls would be 60:40. For every extra £100 million we generate in construction on infrastructures, you are also generating a 5 per cent growth in construction activities and 4,000 extra jobs. I am putting forward formulae to get extra development without over-committing the State.

I strongly welcome the three year roads plan, but there are additional needs. Let us look at a third formula. The Naas by-pass cost £18 million and it was almost unique in so far as it was brought in on time and on budget. It was a success because they ran it like a business. Kildare County Council were given responsibility as project managers. They subcontracted out to the private sector elements of the work. I am putting forward three proposals for joint venture in the roads infrastructural programme. The first is straightforward tolls. The private sector builds them and gets all the receipts. The second is that where only a proportion of it is viable, all the tolls will not pay for the total costs. The State puts up a subvention in the first place and tries to recoup it. It only puts up 40 per cent if it is 60 per cent viable. Therefore you get more construction work for less State expenditure. The third area is greater sub-contracting combined with the direct labour of the local authority through a sub-contracting mechanism. Those three formulae will generate jobs in the construction sector.

The partnership in housing for the third sector I would see as this. At the moment we are building 6,500 local authority houses per annum. The waiting list for local authority houses has remained at about 30,000. This has meant that the number of new houses we are building is approximately commensurate with the number of new applicants. At the same time the State has in its possession sites for 44,340 houses. The land is owned by local authorities, owned by the taxpayers and suitable for building. How can we build houses on that land without incurring extra State expenditure? There is a formula in the third sector in the State's private enterprise partnership for this to be done.

You would give land to the contractor to develop under five different strict terms of reference. You would tell him in advance who the tenants would be. Funding would be arranged through the Housing Finance Agency loans scheme or the SDA loans. He would be contracted to build houses specifically geared to those markets. He could not sell the houses to somebody else. The State has no up-front involvement and the contractor and the housing applicants would be able to do this.

I suggest that up to at least one-third, or perhaps 20 per cent, of the 30,000 housing applicants could afford 100 per cent mortgage on the house. The difficulty would be the deposit. If the State arranged 100 per cent mortgages and got the private sector to develop the houses in housing schemes, we would get more jobs and more houses, and improve the standard of accommodation and not commit the Department of Finance to extra expenditure. There is enormous potential for that. We already have 11 projects. We have one in Limerick. We have one in Tipperary where they have been successful. There is one in County Kilkenny. They have worked on a very small scale. They are working very extensively in the United Kingdom. I see no reason why an extra 4,000 to 4,500 houses could not be built every year without committing the State to extra expenditure. That is a typical example of where the third sector can be used to generate wealth and create economic activity and jobs.

The second area of partnership is that of the semi-State bodies. I am speaking strictly about the commercial semi-State bodies. I should like to say bluntly that the difficulty is the losses of semi-State bodies. Irish Steel managed to lose more than their total turnover, which seems incredible. The losses are appalling. It is unfair to brand all semi-State bodies as inefficient, or poorly run, or inherently having many problems. They are all different. They all have different loan charges. They are all set up under different Acts and under different company registrations, or whatever.

If some of them come to the Government looking for money and their problem is that they have too much loan commitment and what they need is equity, the Government say: "We are very sorry. You have a great case but we have not got the money." Therefore, political considerations can act to the detriment of the company's future and vice versa. Then there could be a company which should be made insolvent because there is no possible future for them. They are an albatross around the neck of the taxpayers. For political reasons the Government will not take the necessary action. Surely that is wrong. Surely that is not the way a State commercial sector should be run. There is nothing wrong with a company being a State company. There is no reason why they cannot make profits. There is no excuse for inefficiency in the name of the State.

I suggest a number of formulae to strengthen the semi-State sector, to expand and sustain it, and to expand job creation. If you look at a number of them you could float 25 per cent or less on the Stock Exchange. This would give them the funds they require to strengthen their capital base. If you want to be reasonable about it, in having a Stock Exchange flotation, a rights issue, or whatever, you could give first preference to the employees and you could limit any individual as to the number of shares he would have so that there would be no controlling stake in it. Existing companies such as Irish Life and Aer Rianta would be very suitable for this. I am not saying we should sell all the semi-State companies. I am saying we should get money into them by raising money on the Stock Exchange without committing the Government to put money into them.

For the second procedure let us take Aer Lingus. I understand that in the eighties Aer Lingus will need somewhere in the region of £650 million to replace their trans-Atlantic and European fleet. The Government have not got £650 million. Aer Lingus have not got £650 million. This is a national airline. It must be made competitive. It could raise half that on loan capital, but after that there is an over-dependence on loan capital. What needs to be done here? Aer Lingus need capital. If the KLM airline in Holland can sell 25 per cent of their airline to get capital and make sure they are efficient and have the latest technology, I do not see why Aer Lingus could not do that.

The third formula would be a straight joint venture. I understand discussions are taking place between ICI and NET. I totally endorse that. NET's problem is that they are making a profit but they cannot pay off all the debts they ran up over the past decade. We must inject £50 million of equity in the hope that we will get a return on the equity through a dividend instead of paying premium interest rates on loans. I suggest a straight joint venture deal bringing a competitor into your business.

The third area would be a direct sale of ancillary services. An example, although not necessarily a correct one, would be to sell the Aer Lingus hotels to get money into the company. We have a number of formulae. I am not suggesting we should just flog off our semi-State sector but strengthen our semi-State sector which is grossly under-capitalised to give it a chance to make a profit, to secure the employment in it, and to give it a viable future. That can only be done through a third sector of partnership between the private and the public sectors.

The third area about which I have great concern relates to the National Development Corporation. We have the sterile argument about the ideological conflict between the public and private sectors. We should bear in mind that we are giving grants which amount to £96,000 per job in certain factories. I am not condemning it — there was an example of it in Greystones in the last month. However, this must be examined because it is an enormous amount of money. It is a non-repayable present. In relation to larger industries, surely there is a question that must be asked on behalf of the taxpayer: is it better to give a non-repayable present than to take an equity stake in the company? I specifically request that when the NDC are being established the State should arrange to take a substantial stake, a minority one, in companies being established, and that the IDA when dealing with larger industries which they are trying to attract would draw up a formula whereby the State would take accumulative redeemable participating preference shares in those companies.

The State would deal with multinationals and say it would put in 40 per cent of the equity: if the project was costing £100 million the State would put up £40 million — of course, the grant-in-aid is 45 per cent. A moratorium would then be put on dividends so that for the first five or seven years dividends would not be taken by the State but after that, because the shares would be cumulative and preference, the owner of the private sector involved would have to pay preference dividends to the State. That would be attractive to many companies and it would generate employment in certain crucial growth sectors that we so greatly desire. It would give better quality projects, and this formula, which has been agreed by the CII and is before the Government, has not been tried in any other country. If we want to compete for foreign investment and if we find other countries have caught up with us and our development agencies, we have got to try to go one step ahead.

I should like to speak about job losses in our traditional industries and I will give the typical reasons for job losses in many sectors. In the sixties there were voluntary quotas and we can take the flour industry as a simple example. There were agreed percentage quotas, everything was nice and cosy, there were no imports and everyone got on fine. We joined the EC in the early seventies, the competition started and imports began. In the first 18 months the native producers cut their prices to compete with imports. They started to trade at a loss and they sustained losses for two years. Then the losses became unsustainable and the industries went bankrupt. That applied repeatedly in traditional industries. There was nothing wrong with the companies which were perfectly efficient, but they could not compete.

It is in the national interest at this stage that we look at our traditional industries which have surplus capacity. When they are in competition with imports, whatever price our industries sell at the price of imports will drop by 5 per cent or whatever because they are on marginal cost production. In England they just put on a third shift but it takes us our total prime production costs to produce the goods.

What will we do? I suggest that we make a case to the EC whereby we, Belgium and the Greeks look for modest selective tariffs. Since we joined the EC the rich countries have got richer and the poor have got poorer according to GNP and spending per capita. Therefore, we must ask that there be selective tariffs on imported goods which we do not export and in which we have a genuine national interest.

The best example I can give is our farming industry. UK farmers have said that they can sell flour at a price 15 per cent lower than Irish farmers can produce it at. They are selling flour at less than the price they charged two years ago. We do not export any flour and therefore there must be a case, particularly when it is appreciated that we have the second highest unemployment rate in the EC, for saying to the EC: "Your highly industrialised economies have gained on the backs of our poorer economies." We are not suggesting that free trade is not good or that the principles of the EC are not what we agreed to, but selective medium tariffs should be introduced to protect our traditional industries. It would not conflict with EC free trade policy, it would not conflict with our stated policy in relation to competition and of trying to obtain extra access in spite of technical trade barriers put up by the French and others, but it would take account of the fact that we are facing a damn bad year for agriculture and that the gloss has gone off the EC for Ireland. The benefits which we thought would accrue have dried up considerably in real terms.

We must tell the EC there are breaking points as far as Irish industry is concerned, particularly traditional industries which need to be protected, not by rewriting the Treaty of Rome but by putting up very selective, modest trade tariffs. The EC has population one and a half times the population of the US, yet the US GNP is more than one and a half times that of the EC. We saw that the EC was not very clever in dealing with the oil crisis during the recession. My suggestion would provide a way for small countires like Ireland, the Belgians and the Greeks to do something modest to help ourselves.

I should like to make some points in relation to employment vis-à-vis the budget. The budget will create jobs in the retail electronics industry. I understand 5,000 jobs have been lost in relation to the sale of hi-fi equipment, televisions and so on and that 1,500 other jobs were in danger. That position will be reversed because of the budget. The provincial press were badly hit. The Wexford People in my constituency had its employees on a three day week. I should like to see the reduction in newspaper VAT extended to newspaper advertising. Those involved in the production of toys, detergents and so on will all benefit by the VAT reduction and this will create jobs. I understand there will be a particularly interesting provision in the Finance Bill in relation to multi-residential development which will benefit the construction industry. The £980 million provided in the budget for the construction industry will help employment there. I understand that the business expansion scheme will be amended in the Finance Bill which will assist capital development in small companies. The unit trust legislation is to be amended so that the trusts can advertise for designated funds.

Tourism receipts this year should hit the £1 billion mark and with the strength of the dollar the North American market looks very promising. I hope tour operators and handlers will produce a package to get the optimum benefit from the changes in the budget, thereby ensuring that tourism earnings hit the £1 billion mark. The Joint Committee on Small Businesses are preparing a report on tourism and, as chairman of that joint committee, I am aware of the difficulties of those involved in car rental, caravan and boat hiring businesses. Car stocks have dropped to 5,500. Boat hiring on the Shannon has run into enormous difficulties becase the German market has dried up. The reduction to 10 per cent in the VAT rate will benefit those operators.

The provision of £30 million for the social employment scheme and the creation of 10,000 part time jobs will help. Growth in manufacturing industry of the order of 3,000 to 5,000 extra jobs this year is another positive factor arising out of the budget.

I should like to pinpoint some areas where more can be done about jobs and discuss the whole area of pay-related social insurance. Employers' contributions under PRSI costs approximately 13 per cent. That works out at 10 per cent of their operating surplus or profits. However, if one looks at the labour intensive industries such as textiles or the construction sector, one will see that because they employ more people the employers' share of PRSI payment amounts to 40 per cent of their operating surplus. The simple and logical conclusion that one can gain from that is the more one employs the more one pays. That amounts to a tax on employment, a disincentive to employ more people. Before a worker does a tap of work for an employer on a Monday morning he costs the employer £11.50 on average industrial earnings. That is one of the inhibiting factors to job creation.

I realise that what goes out on unemployment, disability and pay-related benefits is greater than what is collected under PRSI. Genuinely there is a problem there for the Government but I should like to suggest some ways around this. The Commission on Taxation recommended that there should be a percentage social security tax on everybody and that it would not be paid only by those good enough to recruit employees. They suggested that it be paid by everybody who is earning. The suggestion was that those earning pay a 5 per cent social security tax, as happens in other countries such as the US, based on one's income. It may be said that 5 per cent is too low and that the figure should be 7 per cent but irrespective of the figure decided on it would not have the same effect on employment that PRSI has. Where there are proven labour intensive industries there should be a halving to a figure in the region of 7½ per cent employer's PRSI. Surely it is wrong that 40 per cent of an employer's profits go on PRSI simply because he takes on more people.

I suggest that PRSI be waived where apprentices are recruited. They suffer enough in terms of labour market policies.

I should like to see a number of selected measures taken to create jobs. I should like to deal with the service sector first. That sector is seen as a revenue earner and is penalised as such. There is one benefit I should like to see passed on to the service sector which is directly related to job creation. A manufacturing employer who takes on an extra worker gets relief of £10 per week for every extra employee taken on or £500 per year. For every worker taken on in that sector the employer writes of his corporation tax bill a total of £500. Why not extend that to the service sector which pays the higher rate of corporation tax? In order to stimulate jobs I suggest that if there are base levels of employment statistics within a firm, like those that exist for the employment incentive scheme, the Government say to employers that for every extra person taken on their tax bill will be cut by £500. That is a simple and effective method.

The second area I should like to refer to — it does not have anything to do with employers — relates to job sharing. We have spoken about the social employment scheme and have seen the developments for part time work, 40 hours work per fortnight, but I suggest that where people are prepared to consider splitting a job that the Government introduce a tax break. I am thinking of the many people whom part time work would suit. I suggest that there be an increase in tax free allowances of 50 per cent for all those who split their jobs in an official job sharing programme. The employer could submit to the tax authority a note to the effect that he had a job which he was permitting two employees to share. The PRSI contribution class could be adjusted. In return for that the take home pay of the person involved could be increased by increasing their tax free allowance by 50 per cent.

The third measure I should like to suggest relates to early retirement. It is true to say that if on a once off basis the pension age is reduced from 66 years to 60 years at the stroke of a pen, but at great cost to the Department of Finance who may shudder at the thought, the Government would create 10,000 jobs. I accept that it would be a once off gain. However, if people were given an inducement to retire early without having to cough up the pension such a suggestion would become more viable. I understand that the Department of Finance have been saying that the reason the retirement age cannot be reduced to generate jobs is because it would be too costly in relation to pensions. However, there are many people in good employment who have private insurance and pension plans within their companies. I suggest that the age exemption tax limit which now stands at £3,000 for a single person and £6,000 for a married couple, be given to those who opt for early retirement after 55 years of age and do not obtain a pension. Such a worker having given 30 years service to the company may have an indexed linked pension of £180 per week but as things stand that pension would be taxable. The reason why many people with such conditions do not retire is because they may be entitled to a contributory pension from the Department of Social Welfare also but may lose it if they retire early. I suggest that the age exemption limits that now apply to those over 65 years of age apply to those over 55 if they opt for early retirement. That would stimulate jobs in the economy. The remaining income of those involved could be treated in the same way as those in part time jobs or the self-employed.

With regard to the 15,000 school leavers who seek jobs annually there is a fundamental need that they be taught self-help, entrepreneurship and enterprise. Career guidance teachers hand out pamphlets on how to get into the bank, sit interviews or pass examinations, but what about the most obvious opportunity that exists in a free society such as we have, the opportunity for self-employment? We need a once off stimulus to encourage people when they are young to think about being self-employed, being their own bosses. The enterprise allowance scheme, and other schemes, are moving in this direction and why is it that the tax system does not move in that direction also? I recommend that young people who leave school between 16 and 24 years and who become self-employed be exempt from schedule D income tax. Under that schedule the self-employed pay income tax on the current year's assessment. I suggest that such young people go to their local friendly inspector of taxes and register as a self-employed person. After that they would not pay tax until they reached 25. From then on the tax authorities could catch up with them whether they are chimney sweeps, are operating creche facilities, a garage repair shop or in manufacturing industry. The important point is that the State recognises the value of people who look after themselves not by pushing them into the black economy but by exempting them from income tax. This would be very cost effective and very reasonable.

We see Ministers, members of the IDA and everybody else going abroad on trade missions, junkets or whatever to drum up business because we depend on a market led policy. The crucial people involved are not rewarded. There are double taxation agreements between all the economies with which these marketing executives work. I suggest that marketing executives, tour operators and people who are trying to drum up business for this country who spend more than 90 days abroad on what is officially audited as market business would get a special once off free allowance of £2,000. This is not a perk for people who go abroad; it is simply a recognition of the crucial role these people play. Because of the orders they obtain and the income they generate there will be a job spinoff in the manufacturing industries and the service sector.

If we want to solve our balance of payments problems all we have to do is sell as much to West Germany as we do to the Dutch. We sell £11per capita of exports to the West Germans and £29 per capita to the Dutch. If we sold as much to the Germans as we do to the Dutch we would generate an extra £1.1 billion. From Waterford Glass to the most basic textile product this is a very attainable possibility.

This budget is very good for my constituency. Wexford is in the sunny southeast and tourism will benefit. County Wexford has been selected as the pilot area for the social employment scheme and we are hoping to create 400 to 500 part time jobs in the near future. Rosslare has received £632,000 in this budget — £500,000 for the development of the port for which we have been asking for a long time and £132,000 for lifeboat facilities. Payments to Rosslare this year and last year come to £1.017 million. That is indicative of this Government's commitment to County Wexford.

From the Government's perspective the Coalition budgets of July 1981 and January 1983 caught the Fianna Fáil runaway horse. Some people said to me that this was a Fianna Fáil budget and I laughed. It was alleged that because this budget was not hard on the people it was like a Fianna Fáil budget; but if we look at their last three budgets we see that their figures for the current budget deficits overran from 45 per cent, their best effort, to 80 per cent, their worst effort. It would be very wrong to compare this budget with a Fianna Fáil budget because in terms of accuracy alone such comparison would be incredible. The Coalition budgets of July 1981 and January 1983 caught the Fianna Fáil runaway horse but their 1984 budget was broadly neutral. It was negative in relation to disposable incomes and increasing tax consumption in the economy. This budget is the first step towards reforming the tax system and it will give a modest reflationary boost to income and volume sales at retail level. If one were on the Continent looking at the Irish economy one would have to say that every economy indicator is going in the right direction. Output and exports are up, inflation is down and heading for the lowest level since the sixties——

Unemployment is up.

The balance of payments deficit is narrowing as is the trade deficit, but the rate of job loss has been halved since we came into office. Job losses last year were 17,000. In 1982 there were 38,800——

Those figures were so high that they had to——

I know it is hard for Fianna Fáil to dodge these figures——

Wexford has had a bigger increase in unemployment than any other country.

Deputy Byrne will have an opportunity to contribute to this debate.

Wexford will be the first to benefit from the policies of this Government, as Deputy Byrne will be only too delighted to hear.

I would be delighted if it were true.

Would Deputy Byrne take his seat?

Growth in this economy is sustainable and is set at 2½ per cent of GDP, the best prediction I have seen this year. Last year growth of 3 per cent of GDP was also excellent. In terms of the macroeconomic situation, all the factors we inherited have greatly improved. Nineteen eighty five can be a year of opportunity. Growth in the OECD countries will not be good this year but we will be slightly better in the EC because we are not dependent on growth in the American economy. The single greatest problem facing most countries is unemployment. There are 31 million people unemployed in the OECD countries and 12½ million in the EC and these figures are projected to increase by one million each in 1985. These are very complex problems and I have made a dozen suggestions where jobs can be created.

We should recognise a third sector, partnership between the public and private sector. Instead of giving grants we should combine the equity participation of both sectors. I have suggested ways in which we can stimulate the economy with tax reliefs through selective tax reductions for job sharing, early retirement and employers' PRSI for recruitment.

Nobody listened to the Deputy. That was a pity.

They always listen. A great deal of what I have been talking about is in this budget. It is because I am thinking of next year's budget that I keep prodding the Government in the right direction.

If I had anything to do with that budget I would not boast about it.

Do not worry about that. The outturn for this year will be quite satisfactory. It is very easy to increase disposable income by 3 per cent simply by borrowing an extra £400 million or £500 million, but everything done in this budget was done within the constraints of the figures laid down in the national plan. Unlike nearly all the economic experts who write in the Sunday papers, I am quite happy with this budget. On the one hand, they were saying that this Government would not give the money for this, that or the other and, on the other, they had the audacity to say that this budget was introduced at the cost of killing the national plan, that the figures in the plan were not maintained and that figures for Exchequer borrowing requirements were not adhered to. They cannot have it both ways. They want more spending and less taxes, but you cannot do that. It is about time people understood this because the public are willing to be misled on this matter because they think they would benefit.

We have to make a decision on the right course for tuning the economy for 1985. I believe that a broadly neutral stance on the current budget deficit is the correct procedure and there is a reduction from the opening deficit — £1,250 million to £1,234 million — in the budget. That is the correct policy and I do not believe in the hypocrisy and double standards of many experts. Dr. Whitaker used to refer to a one-armed economist who could not say "on the other hand".

The Government have laid down the conditions for enterprise and expansion through increased competitiveness and reduced cost of electricity and have stimulated certain sectors by greater investment, which has not been done by robbing Peter to pay Paul. I support this budget and I have no doubt that when we come back this time next year or look at specific changes in the Finance Bill that the outturn and the policy decisions taken by the Government will have resulted in a higher than anticipated growth in GDP.

(Limerick West): It is obvious listening to Deputy Yates that he has been taken in by the propaganda of the Government in their public relations operation since the budget was introduced. I am reminded by his reference to commentators of the old saying: “Everyone is out of step except my Johnny”. Many of the contributors to whom he referred are eminent economists and eventually the real effects of the budget will dawn on Deputy Yates and also on the public.

This budget speech will go down in history because, for the first time, it was not written by the Minister for Finance or by any of his officials in Merrion Square. It was written by the Government's public relations advisers. The devious thoughts of the national handlers run through the entire speech and between them they managed to convey the impression that the budget provisions were soft, that the tax burden was reduced, that VAT rates will yield more jobs and that the growth in foreign borrowing has been halted. At first glance all these extravagant claims appears to be true and the national handlers coldly sowed this impression in the safe knowledge that first impressions are lasting.

The national handlers conveniently forgot that the first rule of public relations is always to tell the truth, however it is coloured. Shame on the national handlers for the presentation of this budget. This is not a soft budget. The tax burden has not been reduced, VAT rate changes will not yield any new jobs and the growth in foreign borrowing, far from being halted, has been increased. How can this be labelled a soft budget when the Government's own figures show a substantial anticipated increase in PAYE take? There will be fewer people at work, so from whose pocket will the extra revenue come? Any marginal differences the adjustment in the tax bands will make will be more than wiped out by the additional taxes on such items as petrol, cigarettes, clothing and shoes. How can this be termed a soft budget?

Nobody can seriously criticise the abolition of the 35 per cent VAT rate. It was a penal rate which was resented by all who were forced to pay it and it was introduced by the Government a couple of years ago. However, to give the impression that VAT is being reduced is false because the Government's figures show substantial anticipated increases in the VAT take for the coming year in spite of the abolition of the 35 per cent rate. There were no banners proclaiming that there would be huge and significant increases in VAT on housing, the construction industry, car repairs, clothes, footwear and fuel. Far from producing new jobs, VAT changes will add to the number of jobless.

Ask the 370 employees of Clarks, Dundalk, what they think of a 10 per cent VAT rate on shoes which finally sealed their fate? How many others will join them on the dole queues from the construction industry where VAT has been doubled? How many will join them from the motor industry where VAT has been increased on repair bills and from the clothing industry where VAT has also been increased? There is also an increase in taxation on petrol, road tax and employers' PRSI. The net effect of those changes will probably be job losses and not job gains.

Another sinister effect will be an increase in the volume of the black economy, especially in the motor repair industry, where the back street mechanics must be rubbing their hands with glee at the Government's decision to increase VAT on repairs.

We are told that the rate of growth in foreign borrowing has been halted. I suppose the national handlers believe that if it is said often enough it will be believed by the general public. They have used that tactic time and time again to discredit Fianna Fáil and Deputy Haughey, the leader of this party. They are using it again. There has been no halt in foreign borrowing. In fact it has increased and there are plans to increase it still further. From a Government which pledged to cut out foreign borrowing during the last election and which vilified Fianna Fáil for their foreign borrowing that statement is not good enough. It must also be remembered and should be placed on the record of the House that the Coalition Government of 1973-77 contributed most to creating our foreign debt. For all the public relations presentations, this Coalition Government are no different from previous Coalition Governments. They have presided over a record unemployment crisis. They have decimated our industry and agriculture. They have brought the construction industry to its knees and have destroyed the confidence of the people. There is nothing in the budget which will change that dismal picture.

These are not my words. I am not quoting from any of our daily or Sunday newspapers but from today's The Wall Street Journal. It states:

Far be it from this newspaper to argue against tax breaks for multinational business. We've long argued that the best way to develop a nation is to tear down barriers governments put in the way of business. But tax breaks for big business aren't going to help if they are denied to the average citizen. Yet this is exactly the misguided policy now being pursued in Ireland by the government of Garret FitzGerald.

When a government sets out to woo foreign investors, what it wants is jobs for its people. But how much is gained from having these jobs if the government uses exorbitant income taxes to grab two-thirds of everything an individual earns over, say, $10,000? Consider how the Irish worker must feel after scratching away for his measly net income....

After all, the Irishman cannot take his wages out of the country if he manages to save enough and wants to find a more attractive place to invest his money. Nor does he enjoy any of the benefits available to the foreign companies unless he is in manufacturing or one of the government's other approved activities. If he is a domestic businessman, he is stuck with the normal corporate tax rate of 50 per cent. Not only that, but he pays the punitive marginal rates of personal income tax as high as 60 per cent under the new budget, as well as higher prices for all goods resulting from Ireland's excessive VAT and excise tax.

If the people who are barely getting by after what the government takes out of their earnings feel something is wrong, those out of work are understandably more bitter. That Ireland's unemployment is so high — 17.5 per cent — ought not come as a surprise. The greatest source of new jobs has always been small businesses.... What this says bluntly is that the government's great success in bringing big business to Ireland has not been a success for Ireland's people....

That is an impartial view of this budget and was not written by any of our daily or Sunday newspaper commentators. It is a true picture of the position here.

Severe increases in the budget will result in increased farm production costs thereby reducing the prospects of farm profitability in 1985. The only reference to farming made by the Minister in the budget was to double the take of tax from farming. Once again this Government, who are Dublin based and whose thoughts are purely Dublin, have left agricultural development to Brussels. With the record of this Government in Brussels and particularly the record of the Minister for Agriculture the prospects are not encouraging.

In order to compensate for this negative budget farmers would need a substantial increase from Brussels this year. This would need to be in the region of 4p per gallon in the price of milk and a substantial increase in beef prices. It is anticipated that as a result of the budget farm income will drop by something in the region of 6 per cent in real terms in 1985. The main architect of this reversal of farm incomes is the Minister for Agriculture. His legacy to farmers in the past year and in 1983 can be seen in the increase in the number of farmers in financial difficulties.

The intervention payment system resulted in £200 million being taken out of farming last year. The recent increase in interest rates will add a further £25 million to farmers' costs. This is a direct result of increased Government borrowing on the domestic market. The continued undermining of Irish agriculture has devastated confidence and accelerated the drift from the land. The Government are destroying any prospect of people living on farms and will ultimately destabilise rural society to the detriment of the nation. I call on the Minister for Agriculture and the Taoiseach to reverse their recent decisions as regards the farm package. Speaking on radio on the night of the budget the Minister for Agriculture stated that the farm rescue package, involving 6,500 farmers in financial difficulties, was being discontinued from March this year. This important decision was obviously deliberately omitted from the Budget Statement.

Will the Taoiseach say specifically what saving in Government expenditure will result from this decision to discontinue the farm rescue package? This reduced interest subsidy scheme was introduced by Fianna Fáil some years ago to enable more farmers to regain economic viability. The Government have underspent the original allocation of this scheme by at least £11 million. Instead of discontinuing it this scheme should be extended. In view of the under-spending it would not cost the Exchequer additional funds this year. Farmers will face a most difficult year in 1985. By extending the scheme the Minister will display some willingness on the Government's part to restore farmer confidence. This scheme has helped farmers to get back on the rails. It is vital to extend it to ensure the survival of farmers and to enable them to reach profitability in 1985. If this Government abolish the scheme, this party on returning to Government are committed to the extension of this rescue package. The scheme has been a success and farming organisations are clamouring for its restoration. I appeal to the Minister and to the Taoiseach to ensure that this rescue package is continued beyond the end of March.

There was no reference in the Minister's budget speech to disease eradication. Some time ago I outlined a ten point plan for the eradication of bovine TB in particular. The Government in their recent plan, Building on Reality, gave the impression that they were the only people who were seriously concerned at the progress of our TB eradication scheme. Nobody is more disturbed by this lack of progress than the farmers. Not only do they contribute indirectly to the cost of this scheme but they also contribute directly in milk and livestock levies. These levies are now to be doubled and farmers will be more critical than ever about how this programme is being managed. There are dangers in imposing levies for specific purposes. At first glance they look small; £3.80 seems to be a small levy on the price of a bullock but it can be a very substantial proportion of the profit on that animal. In relation to the milk levy, where a farmer's livelihood is threatened by disease in his herd the levy on milk production can be an enormous burden. The ten point plan which I outlined shows how disease can be eradicated over a short period. In that plan I outlined many areas to be tackled but we need the leadership of the Minister in regard to disease eradication. The Minister needs to bring together the veterinary surgeons, the farmers, the Department and all interests concerned. The Minister's present approach is a coercive approach. I appeal to the Minister before it is too late, before we have a repetition of what happened in 1974-1975 under a previous Coalition Government when disease eradication was set back for many years, to compromise and I appeal to the IVU who are in dispute with the Minister to compromise so that both sides can reach agreement as quickly as possible. If they do not do so it is the farmer who will be the meat in the sandwich. We do not want a repetition of what happened before.

The recent plan promoted by the Government has only paid lip service to the four year plan produced by this party when in Government. We have an opportunity to plan for the development of the agricultural sector. The Minister said that this year's budget was designed to bring us towards the objectives set out in the national plan, Building on Reality. That plan said that the main emphasis in increasing agricultural production would be in the cattle and beef sectors. The plan said that sheep, tillage and crop production would also offer good prospects for expansion. Even if there was a slight ray of hope for the agricultural sector as a whole in the document, Building on Reality, the latest budget has shattered any illusion. The prospects of the agricultural industry for 1985 are not good. On the basis of the resources available no increase in output can be expected. The major components of the farming industry, milk, beef and tillage, were handicapped in different ways. First, milk production is stifled as a result of the penal super-levy allowed to be imposed by the Minister for Agriculture. We had no way of increasing cattle output this year because sadly, cattle stocks at the end of 1984 showed a fall. Our national beef cow herd has reached an all time low in numbers. Last year's abnormal cereal yields per acre could not be expected to be repeated in the current year. Statistics indicate also that there will be a reduction in output from the pig sector. At the same time farmers' costs, notably for fertilisers, have already risen significantly. As a result all objective commentators can see no hope of increase in Irish farm incomes in 1985 or, indeed, in the years immediately following.

Let us now examine the impact of the budget on the agricultural scene. I am sorry to say that it brings no joy. Firstly, I do not deplore in any way, but rather welcome, the increased income tax benefits generally bestowed. However, these have little influence on farm welfare. I look forward to the day when as many farmers as possible will have incomes sufficiently high to bring them into the income tax net. Regrettably, that stage has not been reached and only approximately one-third of our farmers will gain any benefit from the revised income tax regulations. We must remember that the remaining two-thirds will be lumbered with the land tax.

According to the Minister for Finance farmers taxation will be the subject of legislation soon. The Government's stupid, stubborn attitude about this tax is simply amazing. Everybody has told them that this is both inequitable and impractical, but nevertheless they persist. I understand that the latest voice in that respect is that of the NESC who have labelled it undesirable, inappropriate and having no regard whatever to the person's ability to pay. Continued insistence on this penal levy is both demoralising and discouraging. For young farmers, in particular, it is a very heavy price to pay for the continuation of Labour in Government.

We have grown weary listening to repeated promises from this Government of an elightened land policy and repeated statements over the years since 1982. Yet, two years down the road, what have we? Nothing in so far as land policy is concerned. Notwithstanding the promises made by the Minister of State, Deputy Connaughton, over the last two years, nothing has emerged. What has emerged is the abolition of the Land Commission which body promoted, to a certain extent, land policy over the years.

The latest crumb from this table is what is referred to in this budget as an incentive for land leasing — the proposal for exemption from income tax on the first £2,000 of leasing income by a lessor over 55 years of age, which lease must be for at least seven years. It is insulting to the intelligence of young farmers of today to suggest that this measure will promote the long term leasing of land by persons unable to work it to its proper potential. It is a disgrace and an utter insult to the farming community. I deplore this attitude on the part of the Minister for Finance.

I welcome the retention of the stamp duty exemption in respect of the transfer of land to young, trained farmers. That is nothing new, I might add. This innovation, this original thinking was introduced by a Fianna Fáil Government and — I must give credit where credit is due — thankfully, the Minister is continuing that exemption. I welcome also tax exemption on stallion fees. This will be of benefit to our bloodstock industry.

The good aspects of this budget are, indeed, very limited. More disastrous situations arise in agricultural development as a result of the budget. I deplore the doubling of the VAT rate on certain agricultural contracting services. The depression in agriculture generally has reduced the overall demand for contractors in recent times. Suspension of the farm modernisation scheme two years ago by the Minister for Finance has hit them hard. In addition, high interest rates and depreciation costs have placed a number of contractors in financial difficulty. This latest measure will further lessen the availability of contractors, in particular for silage cutting, but also for cereal harvesting. In other words, the approach by the Government will hit the smaller and less well-off section of our farming community. These farmers in the disadvantaged areas are not in a position to purchase machinery of their own, but must depend on contracting services. The charges for these services will be increased because of the VAT being imposed.

I have said previously in the House, and repeat, that a car is an essential element of a farmer's normal living. The raising of the road tax will further add to his costs, as will the doubling of tax on tractors and excavators. I wonder what other areas this Government will hit as far as the agricultural sector are concerned. They have suspended the farm modernisation scheme, have abolished the calf-heifer scheme, the lime and AI subsidies and the retirement scheme. I could go on and on. They are reducing the budgetary contribution to agricultural development.

All these schemes were introduced by Fianna Fáil, or indeed won by Fianna Fáil at the negotiating table in Brussels. These have been totally abolished with immense loss to our farmers. But that is half the story only. Those schemes are of immense loss to our economy because the money emanating therefrom was availed of and spent locally. Our economy is suffering from the reckless attitude of this Government to the agricultural sector.

As if these increased burdens did not constitute a sufficient blow to agriculture the latest announcement from Brussels has deepened the gloom still further — an increase of 2.5 per cent in milk with the continuance of the super-levy and its quota implications, a freeze in beef prices and in the price of pigmeat, sheepmeat, sugar beet and a reduction of 6.3 per cent in cereal prices, almost incredible to Irish ears.

The calf premium won originally with great difficulty by Fianna Fáil is to be eliminated. The Minister for Agriculture said the other day that the rescue package is to be terminated. All of those schemes were introduced by Fianna Fáil to help the most productive sector of this economy, the agricultural industry, which forms the very base of our economy and is responsible for upwards of 50 per cent of total exports when one considers its net import content which directly and indirectly is responsible for the employment 50 per cent of our workforce.

One must ask what is the attitude of this Government to this important sector. Are we to see it deprived of funds, of any leadership by this Government and by the Minister for Agriculture? Is there any light to be seen at the end of the tunnel, particularly for our small farmers so dependent on our land for a living? Speaking about circumstances in Brussels, at times one cannot but feel sorry for the Minister for Agriculture. He has allowed circumstances develop which will bring no comfort to the farmer, his family or to the mass of our people dependent on agriculture and increased output from the land and from our food factories.

Our industry with greatest potential is being crushed by this Government. Have the pious hopes of Building on Reality been dumped overboard from the ship of State? The national plan stated that the main emphasis on agricultural production would be in the cattle and beef sectors, which sectors received nothing but disincentives in the budget. The saddest element of all of this is that we have the capacity substantially to increase beef output were our producers only given the right encouragement to expand.

If remedial steps are not taken now it could prove to be too late in a few years time. If European production continues to rise we could face a similar situation in the beef sector as we face now in the dairying sector.

Before our agricultural sector and its development enters a no-end situation, with no leadership and no hope for the future, I hope this Government will realise the consequences of their approach. I hope Government backbenchers representing rural areas, who must be receiving this message at meetings day in day out, will see that reason prevails in this Government with regard to their approach to the most productive sector of our economy. I hope such backbenchers will ensure that there is leadership, guidance given with, above all, the necessary financial incentives before our agricultural industry reaches the brink of economic ruin.

Each year this House adopts the same procedure of discussing the budget just introduced, the vast majority of Members contributing not having participated in any way in its preparation. Speaking from these back benches I must confess I did not have very much input into its preparation. However, I believe the wisdom and concern of those involved in its preparation is infinitely greater than that which could be provided by the Opposition. Therefore I shall vote for the provisions of this budget, support the Government who introduced it and, taking into account all of the circumstances in which they found themselves, recognise that it was a rather clever piece of work. I say that in all seriousness because it went a long way to balance the conflicting influences that affect Governments when they set out on this exercise. Nevertheless, I shall not say I am completely happy with all of the provisions of this budget or that I believe it to be the absolute answer to our present economic needs, because I do not, or that there are not contained in it some adverse factors.

Most contributors seem to deal with the question of what the Government should do, contending that the Government should pay money here or there, that they should readjust their takings, with all the time the emphasis being placed on the fact that Government, through direct action, have within their capacity the resolution of the problems obtaining within our economy. I do not believe that. On the contrary, if the Government were to withdraw from certain of their activities then it might have the sort of effect many people think would come about through Government action only. As the interference of Government in every aspect of our lives and affairs has increased over the years, with the proliferation of new laws, the employment of additional civil servants etc., it has become more and more difficult for the ordinary citizen to supervise their affairs, generate wealth for themselves and directly enjoy the benefits of their work.

The vast majority of people will tell the Government what they ought to do but, to some extent, I will concentrate on telling them what they should not do. It is evident that real standards of living have dropped by 8 per cent to 10 per cent in the past seven years. This happened not because we failed to produce economic growth, but for two reasons. One is that we had a population increase and therefore we have to distribute the wealth we produce among a greater number of people. Secondly, we borrowed so much money that we now have to deduct a certain sum from our GNP to pay it back. We must ensure that in our society a terrible imbalance is not created by the problem of unemployment. In absolute terms the number of unemployed continues to increase. The problem affects more and more families in every sector of our society. We have not solved the problem and we cannot say in the short term that the problem will be solved. We are all trying to suggest ways in which the problem can be solved.

Various proposals have been put forward. The reduction in income tax will have a marginal effect. It will increase the incentive to work. Others are more expert on the question of taxation than I am. It is a very popular subject in the press. In the region I represent the readjustment in VAT rates is very acceptable to the traders. It will reduce their paper work. It will also restore the confidence of the traders and business people in the Border areas. They are being given an opportunity to compete on an equal and a fair basis with their competitors on the other side of the Border. They do not want any unfair advantage over their competitors in the Six County area. A system of taxation should never have been allowed to develop which deprived them of their right to compete on an equal basis. We are very grateful to the Minister for Finance for what he has done. Before we got relief in the form of reduced VAT we had lost a considerable amount of our competitiveness through the devaluation of sterling, but that is another story.

The penetration of our markets by foreign industrialists seems to have stabilised. Some years ago Irish manufacturers supplied 80 per cent of the domestic market. They now supply 60 per cent. We are very grateful to our manufacturing sector for the manner in which they met the challenge of unemployment through increased exports. This was done by recently established capital intensive industries which we attracted from abroad rather than by older Irish industries.

There is a temptation for politicians and people in the media to suggest that we should impose tariffs. This is almost a reflex reaction when considering the problem of competition from foreign industrialists. People suggest that we should prevent them from selling into our markets. Nothing could be more misguided. I am not absolutely sure but I think it was an editorial in The Irish Times which suggested that as a solution to the problem. My friend and colleague, Deputy Yates, suggested that might be a short term solution. The introduction of any sort of protection policy would not be short term. It is a bit like smoking pot. It becomes habit forming. Most industrialised nations try to do this and perhaps they get away with it in the short term.

It was estimated recently that because of the public procurement policy of the member states of the EC, the European taxpayer is forced to pay £40 billion in taxes. In other words, if there is free competition the public procurement sector buy their goods more cheaply but the European taxpayer has less subsidisation. People who propose that we should not allow manufactured goods of foreign origin to come into our markets must realise that they are also proposing that we should pay a higher price for similar goods manufactured here, or that we should buy similar goods of a lower quality at the same price. We have to recognise that we must provide viable employment on the basis of competition.

It has become very popular recently to quote the EC as the source of policies which force us to compete. Most people forget that for many years before we joined the EC we had concluded a free trade agreement with Britain. Britain was a much more powerful industrial nation and had a more competitive economy than they have today. Mr. Lemass was Taoiseach at the time that agreement was negotiated. We recognised that there was no future for the Irish industry unless we created a manufacturing industrial sector which could compete with the best. Equally we were prepared to offer our products in competition with them on their markets.

In return for that free trade agreement with Britain we had not got the benefit of any common agricultural policy. There was no intervention. There were no guaranteed prices for our agricultural produce. There was no regional fund. There was no social fund. Yet we undertook to compete because we saw that as the only solution. It is not fair and it is probably an oversight by most people to cite EC rules against the idea of protecting our industries through some type of protectionist measures, protection barriers or tariffs.

We claim we have lost 50,000 jobs as a result of this competition since we joined the EEC. That is not true. We lost the jobs through free trade, a policy we accepted long before we joined the EEC. Jobs have been lost in the same sectors in Japan, in ship building and in textiles, which is a declining industry, as is footwear. If we had maintained the textile industry we had in Ireland in those days and if we were still to employ the same numbers, we would have to pay very low wages or sell very dear goods. It is no argument against free trade to say we have lost those jobs to the industrial nations of Europe, because if we look at our balance of trade we will see we have favourable balances with every nation except the British with whom we had the original free trade agreement. If free trade has been the cause of job losses we must remember that our trade balance with Britain in 1983 was £1,200 million.

Of course we should look again and ask ourselves what has created the problems so seriously affecting the job prospects of our young people. It has become extremely popular in the US to speak about their success in getting 20 million new jobs at a time when we were losing them. Some of the facts behind this are not being looked at by most observers. The US, Japan and Austria have managed to maintain and increase employment since the oil crisis. Indeed, they are the only three countries, with Switzerland, who succeeded in creating more jobs since the oil crisis which precipitated the economic recession. In the US in the last ten years they have had the same economic growth rate as we had in the EC, but there they have had work sharing and they had less capital investment. We produced more with fewer workers than they did in the US.

Some years ago we decided national wage agreements were the thing. It was thought to be in the interest of industrial peace that we would sit down at the beginning of a year and hammer out pay agreements. More and more that permeated through the private employment and the services sectors. Everybody expected a wage increase every year, people expected security in employment and we had legislation to that effect. People were to be compensated by pay-related benefits if they lost their jobs. If their jobs made money they would get a good income, if they did not make money people got good incomes and if jobs did not exist those people still got money. That is part of what happened in the last ten or 15 years, and it caused a considerable part of our present difficulties. We appreciate that we have larger families and consequently more young people coming on the labour market every year. Instead of telling our people that they would have improved standards of living we should have told them they would have to make the necessary sacrifices and investment to resolve the problems facing our young people. We refused to do that in general election after general election and gave policies that would be more acceptable to the electorate. There were promises that life would be made better and merrier for everybody regardless of who paid.

Another problem is the size of our interest rates and this is probably militating more against the development of industry and agriculture and the service industry than any other factor that I can identify. By comparison with our European competitors we have had interest rates of 16 per cent to 19 per cent. Most of the people who pay that type of interest rate are not those embarking on the development of projects in manufacturing or services but those who need money in order to keep an existing project afloat. Generally, they are the people who are prepared to pay high rates because no experienced businessman who has carried out research and made projections can borrow money on the Irish market for investment. The top 50 companies here last year had a return in the region of 7½ per cent on capital. The average indigenous Irish manufacturing industry had a return of something in the region of 4 per cent and yet in order to get money to invest such people must pay between 15 and 19 per cent. As long as such high rates continue to apply investment will not take place. Manufacturing industrial investment will only take place if the promoters believe they will get sufficient and generous grant aid from the IDA and that the amount of money they will have to invest will be a small percentage of the capital required. That is why costs are being pushed so high and why the cost to the IDA of investment in manufacturing industry is so high.

At times one wonders whether the investment rate of £50,000 per job — some people calculate that on the basis of the final outturn in the employment that will be created that figure can be as high as £90,000 — can be justified. However, one thing that is certain is that an industry or project that is not grant aided cannot be got off the ground by a person who is expecting to get a return on the capital invested. Why is it that our interest rates are so high? I find it hard to understand that. Admittedly our inflation rate is higher than in competitive economies. We take great credit for having brought it down but it is still 4 per cent higher than the rate of our average European competitor last year. We may take credit for having brought it down but we cannot be complacent about it because as long as it is higher than our trading competitors not only have we to carry the burden of disadvantages of the difference in the rates of inflation but we must also face the fact that it is getting worse all the time. We have not solved the problem of our inflation rate and at the same time we must compete with countries like Holland, Germany, Luxembourg and Britain where interest rates are 7 or 8 per cent lower than ours. In France and Belgium interest rates are between 4 and 5 per cent lower than ours. That means that industrialists in those countries can be satisfied with a lower return on their capital.

The last thing a person with money should consider doing if he or she is interested in getting a return on it is to put it into manufacturing industry or agriculture. They will not get the sort of return by investing it in those industries that they would get if they deposited their money with a building society, a savings bank or put it on short term deposit with one of the commercial banks. As long as that position remains we will have the people with money taking money from those who make an effort. The conservative people who have saved, inherited wealth, or been fortunate can live at the expense of those who invest their money, the people of enterprise and those who have acquired the knowledge to manufacture. The latter must forever work for those who have the capital. The power in the Irish economy is in the hands of those who have capital. Such people can prey on those seeking to get involved in productive enterprises which create employment and wealth. That has been brought about by the fact that the State is overspending. It is leaving very little money available for the private sector and with competition in the market the price goes up.

I do not accept that nothing can be done about this. There are two solutions to the problem. The first is that we borrow abroad but is it wise to borrow abroad? Surely it is better to borrow abroad for investment in selected projects which will give a return on capital than for the Government to raise money on the home market thereby making it scarce. That deprives the manufacturing and agricultural sectors of any possibility of investing and getting a reasonable return. If we must spend on social welfare, education and other areas of public expenditure it is better that we borrow abroad than not make the investment. At present we are preventing people from making an investment because of the interest rates that prevail.

If we have a system of exchange control why do we allow interest rates to go up? Do they rise because financial institutions compete with each other for limited funds? Part of the problem is that the financial institutions, and the Government, are competing with each other for limited funds on the Irish market. If the Government imposed a limit — they have imposed a price control on many things — what would the result be? Would there be a flight of foreign capital from the country? I do not think so. Under our system of exchange control we pretend that we can control the amount of money coming in and going out of the country and why is it not possible to impose the other control and make it possible to have money available at low rates of interest? As long as interest rates remain high Irish enterprise will be totally dependent on the handouts from the State, the IDA grants, subsidised training schemes and the other schemes the State is providing to stimulate the development of industrial development.

We have created those problems through a policy of spending excessively on the public sector. If we had the type of economy which allowed the labour market to work we would not have unemployment to the same extent that we have it today. We think we can insulate the labour market, the individuals who are looking for work, from the effects of supply and demand in that area. Over the years we have sought to guarantee the levels of income regardless of the world economic position and of the number of people looking for work. If we had a more flexible labour market policy labour would become cheaper and Irish industry would become more competitive. Our exports would increase and more jobs would become available. The problem would correct itself but we seek to correct all these things by Government interference which leads to a worse position. Nobody quarrels with the concern by all Governments for those without jobs and nobody questions the need to pay benefits but I question the wisdom and success of policies which seek to resolve by direct Government action all our problems and seek to manipulate down to the last nail in the economy everything we do. It will not work because every interference at Government level creates another reaction.

Every subsidy given to one sector is money taken from another sector. Every pound provided to create a job in industry is a pound less spent in another area. We never seem to take into account the social and economic consequences of the money we collect or, if we borrow, that we must collect money to repay the loan.

What can we do about unemployment? We should work progressively towards a freer economy. Every Member who proposes a grant, subsidy or incentive should be obliged to say where that money would be raised or what item should be cut so that this subsidy could be paid. In the European Parliament if we propose an amendment to the budget we are required to write on the opposite page where we propose to find the money. The sooner we introduce a system like that the better.

The previous speaker spoke a lot about agriculture and decried the failure of this budget to resolve the problems. I acknowledge that this budget has not done very much to resolve the problems facing agriculture and I have already identified a very important reason, that is, interest rates. Farmers can no longer afford to invest in the purchase of land, equipment, livestock or farmyard development at today's interest rates. There can be no further development in agriculture until interest rates come back to a level at which it will be possible for farmers to repay their loans. As I said, in so far as this Government had to borrow a little more this year than they borrowed last year, this budget will put the agricultural industry at a relative disadvantage but that is a minor consideration. The future of our agricultural industry is less in the hands of the Government than it used to be. That is not to say that this industry would be any safer or that farmers' incomes would by any higher if it were in the hands of the Government. I would like assistance to be given to farmers who have invested in their farms to help them to survive.

There is a misconception abroad that our farmers borrowed heavily to purchase land but I do not accept that that is true. Our farmers borrowed to carry out developments in the more intensive sectors, such as dairying, pigs and intensive beef production. As was pointed out in reports on the development of the EC just published, Irish farmers borrowed in the years when interest rates were about to increase — in 1977, 1978 and 1979 — when inflation was at its highest and when costs were increasing rapidly. It is not true that Irish agriculture is over-borrowed. The most competitive agricultural industry in the Community is the Netherlands. The indebtedness of the agricultural industry in the Netherlands is 89 per cent compared with 4 per cent for Irish farmers, the lowest in the Community. Irish agriculture is not over-borrowed but because of our interest rates our leading producers are over-borrowed and the costs of their input have risen 12 times faster than they have in the Netherlands over the last seven years. For all those reasons I agree with Deputy Noonan that it would have been desirable for some provision to have been made for this industry, but this is something we will have to pursue with the Minister for Agriculture and the Minister for Finance.

Looking at the picture as it stands, we cannot hold out the prospect of increased incomes for our farmers in the year ahead. The Commission is making proposals that price adjustments will have a neutral effect. Considering that last year was a favourable season, we can hardly expect to get any increased reduction this year. If the present proposals were accepted by the Council of Ministers Irish agricultural incomes would drop by at least 3 per cent to 4 per cent in the coming year. This is totally unacceptable considering that this would bring our farmers' incomes to 66 per cent of what they were in real terms in 1977. We have an obligation in this House as well as in the Commission and the Council of Europe to consider very seriously the plight our agricultural industry will find itself in.

It is not easy to identify how this problem can be resolved. Deputy Noonan did not make one proposal as to how the position of our farmers could be improved. He spoke about the lime subsidy, the calf subsidy and so on, but they all amount to a very small sum. These schemes were not abolished by the Government but they ceased to exist because the European Economic Commission did not propose that these schemes should continue. Until the Commission makes such a proposal, the Council of Ministers cannot adopt it and this Government cannot reintroduce these schemes. Even if this Government were to reintroduce these schemes and to finance them fully, the sums involved would be marginal to the farmers' income. The problem is much wider than that. It is the problem of increased costs, the indebtedness of a small number of progressive farmers and the price of products which we are depending on the Community to fix. Deputy Noonan seems to think that the Minister for Agriculture can get an increased milk quota for us. I should like to remind the Deputy when he complains that milk production last year was pegged at 4.6 per cent that in the last year Fianna Fáil were in office we did not have any increase in milk production and nobody was holding us back at that stage. Had our milk production increased that year by the amount it increased last year, we would be considerably better off today and the agricultural industry would have a guaranteed price for that amount of milk in the forseeable future. We cannot and should not dismiss the problems of agriculture at European level as something dreamed up by the Commission and the Council to disadvantage Irish farmers.

When things get bad we tend to look to the county council because they are the nearest administrative body. If the county council cannot solve the problem, we go to the health board. If that does not work, we send a deputation to the Dáil and if they cannot solve the problem we say somebody in Brussels will. The solution is to demand that somebody in Brussels solve the problem. It is very easy for the Irish politician to blame Brussels for many of our failures but successes are chalked up to the home politicians.

More and more I hear Europe being blamed for the economic difficulties facing the country. We have to look at this situation in the overall context. The Central Bank estimated last year that we had £7,400 million net benefit from our involvement in the Community. We paid in roughly £1,500 million. We received £7,400 million, £300 million of which came from the Social Fund, £100 million from the Regional Fund and the rest from the agricultural schemes. If Irish agricultural incomes were between £800 million and £1,000 million, you could say that half of that money came from the EC. What would Irish agricultural incomes have been like last year if we had to sell our milk and beef in world markets? When we boast about the deals we made in Libya, the beef we sold to Canada and the Middle East, or the dairy products we sold to Japan, we always neglect to state the amount of European subsidies involved in making such deals possible. The price which the Irish farmer gets is always mentioned but European export refunds are never mentioned. If we were not a member of the EC, our agricultural incomes would be reduced to such an extent that there would be no profit in the production of any commodity which our climate is capable of producing.

We have relied entirely on continuing demands for price increases around the table in Brussels as a solution to the problems of Irish agriculture. As long as we rely entirely on price increases, those increases will make the strong stronger and richer and widen the gap between the large scale, more competitive producers of beef, particularly in Holland where farming is very efficient, and in Britain where farms are very large. The gap between their incomes and those of the average Irish farmer will get wider and wider. We will break the European budget 99 times over before we close the gap between Irish agricultural incomes and those of our competitors.

Our problems cannot be solved in the way in which Deputy Noonan suggested, through our own national budgetary process. We should put more emphasis on structural aids which would involve raising a greater sum of money in our own budget for the matching of funds which we should try to negotiate from Brussels for farm development schemes, drainage of land, improvement of buildings, livestock and breeding schemes, educational facilities for farmers and for new and alternative land uses.

We must also seriously consider the whole question of afforestation and the integration of a better tourist industry into agriculture. We should mould our agricultural environment to accommodate an important element of tourism in the years ahead. Through all these schemes we could attract money from the EC. If you look at our takings of total agricultural spending last year, we got something like 3½ per cent. In the constituency which I represent farmers got only 20 per cent of that money. Nevertheless, we succeeded in getting 7 per cent from regional spending and 11 per cent from social spending. One could say that if we negotiated all agricultural spending in favour of regional and social spending, Ireland would gain £1,000 million automatically. We should not ignore that aspect of our involvement in Europe and we should not resist automatically, as we always do, control of agricultural spending in favour of Regional and Social Funds. I know that in these areas there will be a demand for the provision of matching funds which will have to be raised in our own budget and we regret that the money that comes to the Regional Fund not only fails to come to the regions in greatest need but that it is not spent on schemes genuinely designed to avail of that money, especially as increased taxation is raised in Ireland to match it so that the fund is spent as originally intended.

With regard to social welfare, Deputy Yates correctly pointed out how the readjustments to the tax bands will make it less attractive for people to be unemployed for short periods. Our social welfare schemes should be looked at. I have been involved in local government for many years and I have seen the workings of the social welfare system. The purpose of a social welfare system should be to prevent people who cannot get jobs or are unable to work, from suffering undue deprivation or hardship. If we use the social welfare system to ensure that those who do not have work can enjoy a standard of living equal to that of the employed, it is expecting an awful lot of human nature to think that people will impose upon themselves the discipline of getting up every morning and striving to produce goods or services every day. If it is as attractive to be unemployed as to be employed, people will probably chose the freedom to do what they want to do, even if it is non-productive.

I favour a simplification of the system. There are far too many schemes in existence. There are people who retire from the public service with a pension; they may also have a contributory old age pension, have property or investments and carry on a business. I do not think it is the duty of the State to support these people by taking money from them when they are employed to give them security in their old age. Social Welfare schemes should be used solely for the purpose of protecting the weak and needy. A person should have the right to decide whether he will provide for his old age. People going into employment are forced, from the first day, to make a contribution towards the day when they may be unemployed or ill. The employee may never live to enjoy those benefits. He or she should be entitled to make arrangements with private insurance companies to provide for old age. Taxation is one thing but compulsory contributions towards schemes is a deprivation of freedom and is unnecessary. We should reduce the number of schemes. We have widow's contributory and non-contributory, disability and disablement benefit schemes and one would need a computer to keep track of them all. Schemes overlap one another, are complementary to one another and dovetail into each other. We need a more straightforward way of helping people who are disadvantaged at any time.

I remember a time when people in a county council office knew every applicant in the county. I could ask for a file and would be told all about the case. If one goes into a social welfare office today and does not have code numbers and so on it would take weeks to get a reply. Health boards should operate these schemes in each area.

This was a very clever budget introduced by a Minister who knows that the people are not yet ready to make the kind of sacrifices which are required if we are to solve the problem of unemployment and repay our national debt in the short term rather than pass it on to the next generation. The Minister did the best he could in the circumstances and has helped to lift the depression felt by citizens in the last few months. Politicians have failed to get across the simple message that we must live within our means without at the same time giving the impression that there is no hope.

Our foreign debt is £7,000 million and we produce something like three times that amount. I do not think that repayment of a figure equivalent to one third of our total production in one year is a crushing or insurmountable figure. We all agree that our foreign debt must be reduced and that we will not be able to solve our unemployment problem or create a competitive industrial sector if we increase our foreign debt. What is frightening is that even though we are all agreed that the foreign debt must not be increased we do not seem to be able to stop increasing it. If we settle down to making regular repayments, what will be involved is a small proportion of our GNP. However, if we have futher borrowing the position will be aggravated for farmers and industrialists because interest rates will be pushed up and the problem will be left for resolution at another time. There is no guarantee that we will not face another recession. There is every possibility that the US dollar will start to lose its value in years to come. This will cause problems for our manufacturing and agricultural sectors.

I have spoken about the difficulties of agriculture. There is only one way we can give the agricultural sector increased incomes this year. I should like to hear suggestions from anyone who thinks it can be done without forcing the EC to borrow money to pay us, which they have no intention of doing. The only possibility we have of improving the position of farmers this year is by devaluing our currency. In the last few weeks we have revalued our currency against the British currency. We conduct 37 per cent of our trade with them. Devaluation is justified when we consider our rate of inflation and that of our trading competitors. It will make it a little more difficult to repay our foreign debt but if we devalue our currency by 5 per cent it would be a small price to pay for making our agriculture and industry more competitive and for helping to improve the balance of payments. Therein lies the only real prospect of improving the position for exporters, industrialists and those involved in agriculture in the coming year.

The arithmetic that went to make up this budget was suspect from the beginning but it was blown sky high two days later when the unemployment figure for January was given as 234,000. When we consider that the budget is based on an average unemployment figure for the year of 217,000 and that at the end of the first month that figure is wrong by 17,000, not taking into account the many closures that have been announced, one can see how far out the figures are for the various services that go to make up unemployment payments.

There are many other figures that must be questioned closely. The buoyancy figure has been given as £58 million, the highest ever introduced in a budget. It is four times higher than the figure for 1984. A new figure has been introduced which the Taoiseach refused to explain this afternoon. Expenditure savings on pay is £30 million but on "others" it is £28.6 million. Are these further cuts in the health services, education, local authority areas or does it represent a raid on AnCO, cut from £41.25 million to £40 million, a raid on the Youth Employment Agency, the work experience programme or the Department of the Environment temporary employment schemes? There is no extra money for education but are we facing a £7 million cut in education?

There is a substantial figure of £50 million for departmental savings. We must question that. There is a figure of £28 million extra tax revenue from building societies. Is that the tax revenue which has contributed to the threat by those societies to increase interest rates for mortgage repayments by 2 per cent?

As I said, the arithmetic of the budget was suspect at the beginning. One week later it is incorrect. VAT on footwear was introduced on the second attempt on a day when 350 jobs were lost in a long-established footwear factory in Dundalk. The building industry was crucified. Although already on its knees VAT was increased from 5 per cent to 10 per cent. Unless the Minister for Finance as a result of yesterday's and today's discussions with the Construction Industry Federation decides in his wisdom to do a U-turn, as he must in the interest of jobs and employment, then he has dealt the building industry a death blow from which it cannot recover.

Debate adjourned.
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