asked the Minister for Communications the actual outturn of capital invested in the production of buses for CIE in 1984 and the number of double-decker buses delivered to CIE in 1984.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - CIE Buses.
14.
The CIE bus acquisition programme for 1984 consisted of 120 city single-deck buses at a cost of £15.365 million. There were no deliveries of double-deck buses to CIE in 1984.
Could the Minister give me the figures again?
They were £15.365 million and 120 single deck city buses
Are school buses not included?
Not in that programme.
Would the Minister like to say if his Department are happy with the arrangement between CIE and the bus company with regard to this capital investment?
As Deputy Wilson must be aware, the whole area of bus building in CIE has a rather tortuous history, especially in recent years. The arrangement of recent years worked reasonably satisfactorily. It has not been without its problems and is not without problems at the moment. There are criticisms of the situation which some people might consider valid. Discussions are going on between CIE and GAC to see how all of this can be improved.
Would the Minister say that it is difficult to get precise information about the operation and that this is very frustrating, seeing that the Minister, his Department and this House are responsible for the investment? Would he like to indicate, regarding the argument used not by this company from which this company took over, that they were going to develop exports in order to get capital investment from the Government, how far that project has gone? Some of us were sceptical about Egypt and Iran and we were told that they were about to sell buses there.
I am not responsible for the company, as the Deputy will understand. It is a private company.
That is the whole trouble. It is a matter of information. We provided them with £16 million.
What would be the requirements of the city buses in the coming period? The Minister will be aware that there is widespread anxiety in the company——
That is another question.
It is related.
It is about the same company, that is about all.
The Minister will be aware that quite recently up to 40 people were made redundant in the company. Because no clear indication is coming from the Department of Education in relation to school buses or the whole rural bus area of what the likely outcome for 1985——
That is entirely a separate question.
The Deputy is wrong. A clear indication has been spelled out in the national plan.
The company had discussions with the Minister last week.
Having asked the question, the Deputy might let me answer. The problem is not one of clarity as to the Estimate provisions for bus building. It is because there is clarity that the problem has arisen. In the non-Exchequer Vote in my Department £13 million will be provided for this year, £12 million next year and £11 million in 1987. Nothing has been provided in the Department of Education Vote for bus replenishments this year, but £3 million will be provided for next year and £6 million for the year after. Therefore, for bus provision the total figures will be £13 million this year, £15 million next year and £17 million the year after. I had discussions with representatives of management and unions recently — the Deputy is correct in that — and I have had many discussions with CIE in this respect. Difficulties and problems there have yet to be overcome.
Did they export any buses or did they try to fool us?
There were exports.
Unless a clear decision is given soon in relation to school buses and rural buses there is a real likelihood of the company getting into a very serious position from which they may not recover.
As I have said, this is a private company and I cannot be held responsible for their welfare in future. Of course I am concerned about the needs of CIE and about employment, but CIE are allowed under the national plan and under the new regime which I introduced in mid-1983 so much taxpayers' money. A limit has been set on the amount of subvention available to them and they must live within that limit. They may have to make some of their staff redundant.
Is this the Vote?
No, but the servicing of it becomes voted money.