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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Feb 1985

Vol. 355 No. 12

Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill, 1985: Second Stage (Resumed)

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Before we adjourned for Question Time, I was adverting to the appalling lack of judgment of the Minister and the Government in introducing this Bill at this time, how they are so totally detached and removed from reality when there are so many other major economic events concerning the people. These are the people's prime concern, particularly after a budget which has failed to convince anybody of its efficacy and values. The budget failed to face up to the realities of our economic problems. I have doubt that the budget of the week before last has now fallen flat on its face and has reverberated and ricocheted back into the faces of members of the Government. It is only fair to question whether the introduction of this Bill at this time is purely a diversionary tactic designed to achieve the objective of distracting our people's attention from the real issues of the moment. I wonder is this Bill purely a decoy to distract and take our minds off the failed economic policies of the Government and their continuing failure to do anything about them. I think this is a valid question and leaves a serious question mark over the motives of the Minister in presenting the Bill at this time.

We are all aware of the peculiar, unstable composition of a Coalition Government which, because of its basic structure, has to accommodate people with widely varying ideological beliefs and views, which in many cases are absolutely ideologically opposed to each other. Such a Government are particularly prone to creating what many of us believe would be bad legislation. One has to ask oneself if bad law, dangerous law, is introduced, which is not for the common good, is this the very basic price that one has to pay for a Coalition Government's survival in office? If so, the end does not justify the means.

As I said at the outset, I do not intend to go into any form of political diatribe on the motives of the Minister in presenting this Bill. I shall refrain from suggesting that there are any sinister reasons or motives for presenting this type of Bill. However, I do not think anybody would regard it as personal if I were to suggest that the Minister has had an almost inescapable compulsion — one could even say an obsession — about this particular legislation, going back to the formation of the Government. It is probably as a result of this compulsion that we are now discussing this legislation when there are more important things to be dealt with such as the quarter of a million who are unemployed and who are seeking jobs.

Before I go into an analysis of the issues in the Bill I would like to clear up a number of glaring misconceptions. The most obvious misconception is that a person opposed to this Bill is a square opposed to the whole concept of contraception and out of touch with reality. Nothing is further from the truth. The members of this party are in touch with the viewpoints of the people and will recognise their viewpoints. We recognise the difficulties. We are not opposed in principle to contraception but we are concerned that contraceptives should be controlled. That is why we are opposing this Bill. I do not doubt that there is no demand from the public for this Bill. I am a practising member of the medical profession and I am the sort of person with whom young persons can discuss problems in a reasonable fashion. I have never turned young people away and I have tried to help them when they were afraid to discuss their problems with parents or families. This is part of the role of the medical profession and I hope they will continue to play that role. I am in close contact with the young people of my constituency and I understand their needs. There is no demand from them or from any other people for a change. I am aware of the problems facing young people and that increasing promiscuity is creating many problems for young people. I have sympathy for those young people and have always made myself available to advise them. That was one of the positive points in the previous legislation, that the administration of the Bill was carefully monitored by responsible members of the medical profession. Now for some peculiar reason best known to himself, the Minister has decided that the medical profession are no longer necessary to provide advice in the area on non-medical contraception.

That is not true and you know it. Look at section 2 of the Bill.

The Minister should withdraw that remark.

It is quite obvious from the Bill. The Minister seems to have changed——

I regret that the Deputy's statement is not in accordance with my opinion.

It can clearly be inferred from the Bill that the Minister has discarded the medical profession as regards having the right, knowledge or ability to advise on non-medical contraception.

That is also incorrect, grossly incorrect.

The present Minister seems to have changed his mind over the last 10 or 11 years. On 11 July 1974 at column 1095, Volume 274, of the Official Report Deputy Desmond said:

I do not, and it would be quite wrong for any Deputy to suggest that we should particularise in relation to the precise use and best form of contraception for any given family. I have sufficient confidence in the medical expertise of Irish doctors who provide such medical assistance to accept their views on what is the best form of contraception for married couples or particular persons who wish to avail of contraceptives.

That was the statement made by Deputy Desmond, the present Minister for Health. It is unfortunate that the Minister has changed his views on the value of the advice of the medical profession in this area. In proposing that non medical contraceptives be made available without prescription the Minister is removing contraception from the area of health care. Health care advice whether or not it relates to sexual matters is of vital importance. We live in a time when sexually transmitted diseases are rempant. In recent times hitherto unknown sexually transmitted diseases are now prevalent and they have serious medical consequences. Contraception for family planning purposes should be used under the guidance of the medical profession in association with the health boards and community care agencies. In this way, while not denying those who need contraception, we will not indiscriminately allow young people to avail of contraceptives. If we produce legislation for the provision of contraception on a free and easy basis we will confer a licence on young people to indiscriminately involve themselves in unrestricted sexual behaviour. This would be wrong of the legislators. It would be most unfair to our young people and a deliberate attempt by us to mislead them. This is one of the basic errors in the Bill and it will have most regretful consequences if passed.

I should like to look at the various outlets the Minister suggests will be provided for unprescribed contraceptives. When I studied medicine and subsequently when practising little did I think that at some stage a Minister for Health would decide that I should set up some sort of hucksters shop in a corner of my surgery ——

The Deputy does not have to.

The Minister expects members of the medical profession to set up hucksters shops in the corners of their surgeries.

They do not have to do anything, and the Deputy knows it.

I always thought that the job of a medical practitioner was to diagnose, advise and prescribe. I did not think that at the whim of a Minister for Health I would have to go into the business of buying and selling contraceptives. I am seriously concerned about the outlets on which the Minister apparently sets special value. I am concerned about the possible licensing of certain planning clinics which are at present illegal but which are obviously flouting the law. Unfortunately, the Minister took it on himself during his term of office to involve himself in the official opening of one of these illegal family planning clinics.

That is equally incorrect. It was not illegal and the Deputy knows it.

I am worried about some of the family planning clinics in existence and particularly about the ones called Well Woman centres. I consider that some of these are being run and operated by people who should not be regarded as proper people to advise young people or anyone else on aspects of contraception. Some of the people who operate these institutions have a very irresponsible attitude when they are giving advice. I am sorry to say some of the advice they give has a very deleterious effect on young people in regard to sexuality. Some of the centres are simply there to refer Irish girls to abortion clinics in the UK and it would be rather sad if the Minister, when making various outlets available, would recognise these units which are only open referral centres from here to abortion centres in the UK for young girls. I have a circular from a Well Woman centre, and I will read it:

Dear Client,

While you are waiting to see the Counsellor we would ask you to read this note by way of an explanation for the fact that you have been asked to pay in advance — this is because when your visit is finished you will not be coming through reception on your way out.

As we do not receive grants nor subsidies from any source whatsoever we have to charge £22.00 which covers the cost of making your booking, telephone calls etc. Twice yearly our Counsellors visit the clinics in England to ensure that the high medical standards we expect are maintained. Also we have negotiated special rates for our clients which means that although you pay us £22 Counselling Fee you make a saving of between £25/£30 sterling by going through us.

We hope you understand and that you will be happy with your visit here. Please feel free to make suggestions to help us improve our services.

If that is the type of centre the Minister will recognise as proper outlets for contraceptives and as places qualified to advise our young people I find it extremely hard to understand him because they have not the integrity or the capacity or the responsibility to advise young people properly.

May I ask the Chair to note the imputation in the Deputy's statement? The centre he has referred to has no connection with the health service, has no consent whatsoever from the Department of Health. I deplore the typical innuendo of the Deputy. It is reminiscent of his disgraceful attitude in the referendum campaign.

The Minister is attempting to legalise outlets which offer facilities that we do not want to have here.

I have made no such proposals in the Bill. The Deputy should try to behave himself.

The Minister is full of tender spots this afternoon.

I will not stand for these innuendos.

This will have serious and damaging effects on the lives of our young people. There has been no demand for this Bill. It is not an improvement on existing law. As I have said, already there are inherent dangers in one of the outlets available. Instead of achieving the common good this Bill can only do harm, and I strongly recommend to all Members to reject the Bill out of hand.

I should assert first, that I made my position known quite clearly and unambiguously on this Bill many months ago when it was first mooted. I gave my reasons then to my parliamentary colleagues and I reiterated those reasons on many occasions down the months. I conveyed my views publicly on this matter and they were recorded in the national and local press. I feel sure that those sentiments expressed openly, publicly and privately were not unknown to the Minister and my colleagues. Those comments did not go unnoticed.

I said then that I was opposed to this measure, that I regarded it as a retrograde step, that it was a proposal that would not be condoned by the Irish people if put to the test, that it was unnecessary and uncalled for by any section of our people, neither from any section of the majority or any minority grouping. Nobody called for this measure. When this proposal came before our parliamentary party, particularly at our meeting prior to the Christmas Recess, a meeting at which the Minister, Deputy Barry Desmond, outlined sketchily these proposals, I spoke at length outlining my apprehension and detestation of their proposal. It was put to a vote there. The vote was on whether it should be given unanimous approval by my colleagues, that the Whip be applied and that we vote under threat of expulsion. I voted against both measures and I was joined by one of my colleagues. The records of the parliamentary party prove that.

It is wrong, therefore, to suggest that I reneged on an earlier undertaking in this matter or that I misled my Minister, my leader or my parliamentary colleagues. I did not unless the Minister underestimated me in respect of a stand I have taken at various times. I thought he should have known me better. I repuditate, therefore, the suggestion contained in today's daily newspapers issued by a spokesman on behalf of my party that I misled my Minister in any way in respect of the stand I was taking on this matter. Only last week when the Minister told us he was bringing in the Bill this week I made it clear at all times that I would ultimately determine my position when I saw the terms of the Bill. I asked the Minister to let me have a copy or a proof of that Bill. My stance at all times was that I had reservations of the most serious kind and that my position and ultimate decision would be decided when I saw the Bill. I defy contradiction of those truths. If we are to disagree in this matter let us disagree honestly and deal with this measure in a charitable fashion. I honour my colleague, Deputy Barry Desmond, for his courage and daring in bringing in this measure. I hope he will respect me for the stand I am talking in conscience on this issue.

There was a previous decision in the House on a moral issue, the pro-life amendment Bill, and on that issue I differed with my leader, my colleague, the Minister for Health, and many others not as a matter of variance but fundamentally. We were given a choice of vote, a free choice in the matter. We walked different ways in the Chamber. We fought out that fundamental issue in the country on different platforms but we reunited later in our party to go on to further the interests of the people we represent. I understand that I am getting no choice in the matter on this occasion. There is here an element of complusion that if I do not conform I will suffer the consequences.

I can only tell the House, and the country, that my natural instincts tell me, and have told me, that this measure is wrong. Every fibre of my being tells me it is wrong. My upbringing tells me it is wrong. My informed conscience, I would assume, tells me it is wrong. The teaching of my Church tells me is wrong. My family and my friends tell me it is wrong and why then should any party compel me to do that which I believe is fundamentally and intrinsically wrong.

This is a matter of conviction and conscience for me. My colleagues know that and I make no apology to anybody for the stand I am taking on this issue and the manner in which I intend to oppose it. I have always had the greatest reservations about the matter and those reservations have been confirmed with the passage of time. Nothing anybody has said to me, or written to me or threatened me with has caused me to change my mind one iota on this issue. I still believe that the Bill is undesirable, unnecessary, uncalled for, destructive and divisive and cannot do anything to enhance the prestige of the House, the prestige of the Government or the prestige of the party I represent. In conscience, therefore, I cannot and will not support this measure in its present form. It is simply alien to all that we as a Christian society stand for. It is an affront to the youth of the nation. It attacks the Christian concept of marriage and undermines the family as the fundamental unit group of society possessing, as it states in the Constitution, inalienable and imprescriptable rights, antecedent and superior to all positive law. The family is the bedrock of our society. The Bill undermines family life as we have known it. It will be seen by many people, especially by Labour Party supporters throughout the country, as a device, a diversionary tactic to evade the real issues confronting the Government and the people. As a Labour man I believe the real issues are and always have been jobs for our people, equity in taxation, the elimination of poverty and deprivation which is now rearing its ugly head on every side.

There is violence; there is drug addiction; and fear abounds in this land. Our young people are crying out for jobs, not condoms. There is no scarcity of these devices, nor has there been any scarcity of them for the past few years. This morning the Minister told us that some 30,000,000 of these contraceptive devices were imported in the past few years. Subject to correction I think since November 1980 they have been coming in at the rate of upwards of 10,000,000 per year. To suggest therefore that any section of our people or any minority group are deprived or disadvantaged in this area is a sick joke. They are there in superabundance.

This Bill will open the flood gates and many more millions of these condoms and contraceptive devices will be available. I deplore this time-wasting exercise on legislation which is uncalled for and despised by the mass of our people. If passed it cannot do any good. It will do untold harm to the moral fabric of this nation. Instead of uplifting our people it will deprave them.

I always believed that my role as a public representative of long standing in this party going back to 1955 — this year I celebrate my 24th anniversary in this House — was to uplift, to enrich and to ennoble the lives of the people I represent, and never to besmirch, demean or degrade them as I believe this measure does. In the course of my political career I always strove earnestly to uphold the dignity of the human person. The indiscriminate distribution of contraceptives degrades human life and human values. It is not consonant with the dignity of the human person.

As legislators we are expected to maintain standards in respect of public behaviour and public morality. Can anyone deny that in this contraceptive Bill we are witnessing a sad and deplorable lowering of standards? If this Bill is passed it will be followed by more and more legislation of an anti-Irish and anti-Christian kind, demoralising and degrading our people and the minds of our people, and leading ultimately — and sooner than many of us think — to the emergence of a virtual pagan society. We are on the slippery slope towards paganism. As a public representative I seek in this House to arrest it and stop it in so far as I can.

I am and have always been essentially loyal to my party. No one can accuse me of being a time server, or operating under a flag of convenience. I have served my party long and loyally during difficult times. I never hid my identity as a socialist, a Christian and a democrat. My loyalty to my party can never be called into question by anyone. I value loyalty as one of the greatest attributes of any man or woman. I am deeply saddened to find myself at variance with the leadership of my party, my ministerial colleagues and my parliamentary colleagues on this issue.

This is not an ordinary issue. This is not an economic issue. This is not a social issue. Essentially for me it is a moral issue of the highest principle and of deep conviction. The inner voice of conscience speaks in such circumstances, enlightened conscience confirmed by my Christian beliefs. I must follow my conscience in this matter, irrespective of the consequences and irrespective of threats or intimidation of any kind. Conscience may not be compromised for political expediency.

I desire on this occasion to do nothing more than that which I have always striven to do, that is, to uphold the best, the finest and the noblest traditions in my constituency of South Tipperary and West Waterford, to uphold all that is good, noble and Christian in my constituency and the lives of my constituents who sent me here to represent them in 1961. They have honoured me with their votes ever since. They have entrusted me to speak for them, and I speak for them now. I say to them that I will keep faith with them on this issue as on very many others. Yes, I will keep faith with them. I confidently place my political destiny in their hands. I will be judged at the bar of public opinion on this issue and I will be judged in a higher place on it as well.

It has been said in respect of the stance I am taking on this issue that I am deviating from party policy. I know very many Labour party policies, the finest policies there are in the land if they could be implemented. There are many policies of this party, and they are far more important, urgent and necessary than is this piece of so-called party policy. There are items of party policy included in the agreement for government with our Fine Gael colleagues. None of them has been implemented. Although we have reached the half way stage in the life of this Government many essential items of policy laid down as part of the agreement for government have seen no signs whatsoever of implementation. There are policies crying out to be implemented to deal with job creation, equity in taxation, to improve essential services in health, welfare and education. These are the real policies of the Labour Party which have lain dormant and unfulfilled for the past two years. At a time when we have massive unemployment in the figure of 234,000, all we are concerned about is the distribution of condoms and contraceptives.

If I take a stance on Labour Party policy it is in regard to the bread and butter policies traditional to this party of ours. We were always concerned about standards of life, home comforts, equity of opportunity and the like, and I regard these as the real policy proposals of the Labour Party. I would be much happier were I speaking here this afternoon on some of those policy issues, some social or economic policies furthering the best interests of the people we represent rather than wasting the time of this House on this piece of political gimmickry which nobody wants and is of no real value to our country or the people we represent. With regard to this Bill being party policy, I should say that a policy proposal which impinges on conscience or intrudes on matters of high principle, such as faith or morals, cannot be imposed on politicians of any party.

We can never accept that. We cannot be bludgeoned into submission. We will not. We are democrats.

The principle of free vote has been acknowledged by this party on a previous occasion. Should it not be permitted now? That is my plea to the Minister, that a free vote of this House be granted.

Those are some of the sentiments I wanted to express on this occasion. My colleague, the Minister for Health and Social Welfare, has been a friend of mine for many years. I value his friendship very highly and I am sure he will understand my feelings on this occasion — that I differ with him not merely as a matter of variance but fundamentally on this issue. At a time when our economy is shattered, the nation in dire financial trouble, with an unprecedented figure of 234,000 people unemployed it seems to me to be nothing less than disgraceful that the precious time of this House should be taken up with this kind of political issue with the nation diverted from the real issues affecting our people.

I represent a party which has been traditionally referred to as a bread and butter party, a party of homes, of jobs, of rising standards of living and of the elimination of the spectre of forced emigration and unemployment. These remain the real issues. These issues are far more urgent, intense and demanding of solution than is the measure before us. Seemingly we have changed from being a party of bread and butter, jobs and standards to one of pills and condoms. It has become an obsession with some people. Seemingly the conclusion has been arrived at in high places that the high birth rate and a growing population are dangerous things and that Ireland's youth are no longer our most cherished assets, that a halt has to be applied and that this Bill is the device to do the job. It has always been a fundamental plank of Labour policy that Ireland's most cherished asset was its people. I stand by that philosophy now and I believe that to deviate from it will mean stagnation, leading to economic ruin.

I speak and come from the hub of the Labour Party, the place in which this great movement was founded. The voices of Connolly and Larkin have ever been ringing in my ears. I represent a proud people. They have placed great trust in me. I honour that trust now to my party and to my people by indicating my stance on this measure as one that I cannot and will not support.

Before I commence——

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, might I just ask: would it not be in order to call on a speaker who favours this Bill rather than having speaker after speaker who opposes it? I sat here since 10.30 this morning endeavouring to get in on this debate.

The Second Stage only commenced today. It will continue next week when there will be ample opportunity for you to get in.

The point I am making is that virtually every speaker, other than the Minister, so far has spoken against the Bill. I sat here since 10.30 a.m. and offered to speak on each occasion. I think it would be only appropriate that at least one other speaker who supports the Bill— whether it be me or some other Member — should be allowed to speak.

I have called Deputy Gene Fitzgerald and I will call on you in due course.

Have you some information that Deputy Gene Fitzgerald supports the Bill?

I have no information whatsoever. I am calling on Deputy Gene Fitzgerald. The Chair has the right to do so and I presume the Deputy accepts that.

We know your position.

My position as Leas-Cheann Comhairle is very clear.

I am sure it is not the practice but, before I commence my contribution, I must say I admire the last speaker, whether one agrees with him or not. His was one of the great contributions to this House. I say that very sincerely. The Deputy is somebody I have known and admired in this House for quite a long time.

I oppose this Bill. I join my colleagues, Deputy McCarthy, and our Front Bench spokesmen, supporting the cases they made so concisely, sincerely and importantly on behalf of the vast majority of our people. I do not have their professional competence to enter into some of the more delicate areas but I say to the Minister and the Government that this measure was not needed. There was no demand for it from the majority of the people. This is the third time since I was elected to this House that a measure dealing with contraception has been debated but it is the first time a measure dealing with the free availability of contraceptives was debated. As the day has progressed, it has become more apparent that this was an inadvisable measure to introduce and it did not show good judgment on the part of the Government.

Only a few Members have spoken so far.

In due course Deputy Skelly will be able to contribute.

Since the 1979 Act was passed I have held clinics regularly but only on one occasion since then was I approached by any person — and that in the past week — seeking an extension of the 1979 measure. I share the view that the 1979 Act put family planning fairly and squarely in the area of health but this Bill does the opposite, as has been outlined by other speakers.

As I said, there is no demand for this Bill but there is a demand for more important measures to help our young people. I repeat what Deputy Flanagan said, that the tragedy is that we are devoting one, two or three days to debating this measure when we have the biggest problem of all facing us — our young people looking for guidance and employment. Three weeks ago I asked the Taoiseach when it was intended to introduce the legislation promised almost ten months ago granting Cork harbour free port status; he said it was at an advanced stage of preparation. This morning Deputy Ahern asked about the supplementary employment scheme; again we were told that would be introduced later. All these measures have to take second place to this Bill. This, in my opinion, is a diversionary tactic to take people's minds away from the real problems. Irrespective of whether this Bill is passed, the real problems facing our young people remain and they must be tackled quickly.

I was amazed to hear the Minister this morning, obviously realising his case was weak, seeking to disclose minutes of a confidential meeting held by a former Minister for Health, Deputy Haughey, and the Hierarchy. Every man who held office had meetings that were confidential. It could be said that all meetings in the Department of Labour had a high profile but the details of the meetings whether with the employers or the trade unions were always confidential. At the opening of those meetings, there was a commitment to confidentiality. This gave the Minister the opportunity to build up a trust with these people. I hope the man who holds the Labour portfolio at present continues with confidential meetings and, in the national interest that no successor from this side of the House will break the confidentiality of those meetings.

I repeat, there is no demand for this legislation because my constituents have very clearly conveyed their preferences to me. There is a well orchestrated minority group who would like to see this and other related measures introduced, but the majority with whom I have been in contact, including young people, are more concerned about what will happen when they leave school or when their courses are ended. Now more than ever, young people are involved in many courses but employment is getting further away from them. This is not a debate about employment but I am trying to impress on the Minister and on the Government that these are the real problems facing our young people.

At the weekend the name of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, a constituency colleague of mine whom I admire and whose integrity I respect, was used to portray a position by way of a Fine Gael information announcement that got very good coverage. In that statement the Minister said the proposed amendment would make one change in the 1979 Family Planning Act. This morning Deputy O'Hanlon pointed out that there were three changes involved and that the 1979 Act legalised the importation and sale of contraceptives but that a doctor's prescription was required for non-medical contraceptives. The inference in the Minister's announcement was that this was a very minor change being sought by the medical profession. All I can say is that if the Minister responded to all the many requests from the medical and nursing professions and the health boards as quickly and as positively as he responded to this, he would be doing the people far more good.

I respect the right of people to comment, regardless of the Church to which they belong, but I do not think legislators should be dictated to. I will always make my views known at Fianna Fáil Party meetings where one can always express one's views. Our long established tradition has been accepting democratically taken decisions. At the weekend the Minister for Foreign Affairs tried to pour oil on troubled waters, but without much success. He refused, according to newspaper reports to accept 5,000 signatures collected by Mrs. Kelly, a lady from my constituency, because there was a photographer present. I do not know this lady but I heard her interviewed on local radio at the weekend. Those signatures were given to Deputy B. Ahern, who was in Cork that evening. It is most unusual that a Minister would not accept signatures from the people in his constituency.

The Deputy knows perfectly well why he did not accept them.

I am told they were collected on a voluntary basis and I accept that as the truth.

He did not accept them and quite rightly, because she arrived with photographers.

The Minister will get his opportunity to reply later. I join with the many speakers who asked how this can be confined to people of 18 years and over. Of course it cannot be confined to people of that age and this legislation will be no more effective than legislation covering the sale of alcohol to young people. Children who are too young to be served alcohol succeed in drinking because they are tall for their age and so on. The same weakness applies to this Act and I fear the consequences.

The Minister made the case that the availability of contraceptives will control unwanted pregnancies but experience and statistics prove otherwise. In countries where contraceptives are more easily available there has been a substantial growth in the illegitimate birth rate and in abortions. Denmark is a particular example. I do not intend to give any figures because they are available to the Minister if he wishes to study them, but we are talking about an eight and tenfold increase in a period of 15 years.

There are problems in relation to unmarried mothers and unwanted pregnancies and it is a pity that we do not have a more caring society which does not shun those people. We should be more supportive in this regard, but the Government have paid far more lip service to that support rather than carrying out the many things that could be done to help these unfortunate people. A very small and inadequate number of people, along with voluntary organisations, are left to care for them.

I wish to quote from The Irish Press of 14 February 1985.

Free availability of non-medical contraceptives will lead to an increase in venereal disease, a doctor who works in VD clinics said last night.

Doctor Walden Verling, Dublin, said condoms do not protect the user against certain venereal diseases. "When their elders tell young people they should have contraceptives, they are going to use them. There will be more and more accidents, an increased number of pregnancies and more VD," he said.

He said it was clear that countries that allowed free availability of contraceptives also suffered from a higher incidence of VD.

He is an eminent man dealing with a growing problem which will not be helped by the measures in the Bill introduced today.

The free availability of contraceptives to teenagers hits directly at the family unit, which is the main support of society. It needs our protection, and measures of this nature can only undermine the strength of the family and will make no positive contribution to supporting it. What is the biggest problem which the family faces at present? It is that the father has lost his job, become redundant or has no hope of another job, or that teenagers cannot find employment at home. The Government are ignoring this problem.

If we pass this measure we will find it hard to maintain our standards in future. Many people say that contraceptives are freely available in other countries and that they should be available here also. However, it is interesting to note that there seems to be a switch in opinion in some of the countries in which contraceptives are freely available. In France they are concerned with the downward trend in population and the kind of workforce which will be available in 20 years time. The United States was perhaps the most permissive society of all but there seems to be a drift from that trend now. Here we are introducing this measure which will not make one worthwhile contribution or improvement to the value or quality of life. The measures we pass in this house should be passed in the belief that they can make some worthwhile contribution to society. There seems to be a major change in the Minister's views since 1974 and indeed by many of the people serving with him in Government. He is introducing this measure as a diversionary tactic from the major problems which afflict society.

The Minister said this morning that he had initiated a review of the 1979 Act when he came to office. Strangely enough, this review was never made available to the House and I am surprised at the omission. What kind of review was it? Who carried out the review? Was there a written report from the review body and who received a copy of that report? What did it contain? The Minister has left these questions unanswered.

The Minister also referred to selective statistics. We were told that a study of 200 unmarried mothers was carried out in St. James's hospital in 1980. Who carried out that study? Was it his Department? How sure can we be of the accuracy of the results of that study? A review of 200 different people could have revealed different figures. How authentic are the findings?

There is no demand for this measure, it cannot serve the majority of people in the way in which they should be served and it cannot help the common good. It was inadvisable to introduce this measure and, as the day wore on, it became more apparent that the Government's judgment was bad. The only reason the Minister gave for introducing the Bill was that the medical profession sought a change. I should like the Minister to say how many times he met various units under his responsibility and what response he received — for example, the latest development in the Southern Health Board where the student nurses appear to be losing their salary allowance for the first 12 weeks of their training or that it will be substantially reduced. Yet this Bill is the only measure the Minister can introduce. It is ill-advised and does not help the common good. It has been introduced at a time when there are far more serious problems in our society. These are what we should be talking about and legislating for.

Would it be possible for the Minister to supply us with a copy of the document on which this review is based? We need this information to proceed with the debate. The Minister mentioned it this morning.

Departmental reviews and internal reviews are generally used for internal purposes as the Deputy knows well.

They are being used for external purposes here.

It is the same precedent which was followed by Deputies Haughey and Woods.

As I contribute to this debate I am conscious that I am the first woman Deputy to speak on it. I support the Bill. This issue does not only relate to women but to all citizens. However, it is women who will specifically suffer if a comprehensive family planning service is not made available.

Deputy McCarthy spoke as a practising GP. What would he say to a 19 year old who came into his surgery, told him he was sexually active and would continue to be so and wanted help from him as a doctor because he did not wish to make some girl pregnant? What would he say to a young 19 year old if she told him she did not wish to become pregnant? I am sure the Deputy is a committed and well-intentioned doctor. There are many young people who need that kind of help today. Would he tell those young people they should not continue what they were doing, that it was sinful and immoral? Would he send them away knowing that by so doing he was putting them at risk of creating a pregnancy? Does he accept that the law is deficient in that area and leaves aside a section of our society whose needs are not being met?

Many Deputies who spoke said there was no demand for this change. They said they did not receive any representations to that end. I suggest they have all had a letter from the Council for the Status of Women asking them to support this measure. This is a respected organisation which represents 35 women's organisations. They have looked into this legislation carefully. No Deputy can say he or she has not received representations to support this Bill on behalf of women. They all received the same letter as I received asking for support of this measure.

I am proud to be a member of a party and a Government who had the courage and sense of leadership to introduce this amending legislation. I commend the Minister for Health for his balanced and very informative speech this morning. To those who say that contraception is wrong and immoral I say it is legal whether it is right or wrong. It is supposed to be available and acceptable. I do not question the motives of the people who disagree with me, with one exception, and I will not comment on the views and criticisms of those representing the Churches because as a legislator I have a job to do and I intend to do it to the fullest possible extent.

I ask Deputy Haughey: who are the true Republicans now? Where is his commitment to a united Ireland when he can take the stand he has decided to take on this legislation? Does he know how harshly he is treating the people of another denomination or those of the Catholic religion who have made a free decision about their sex lives? How can he talk about a 32-county Ireland and retain such a tight lipped stand on this Bill, which has such minor amendments? While the Northern Ireland factor is important, our primary responsibility is to our own society. Where is the generosity in this instance?

Deputy Haughey shows scant understanding or care for women's issues. He knows the reality. He knows that the legislation, for which he as a member of the Government was responsible, does not cover the needs of all the people. He knows that condoms are not available for many people who want them. He knows there are large sections of rural areas where there are no family planning clinics. For example, Kerry is a desert for any couple who want to plan a family. All they can do is hope to find a doctor who will prescribe the pill. Women are being forced to take drugs they should not have to take. The total responsibility for planning a family rests on women. Deputy Haughey is stamping his boot firmly on the necks of Irish women by his attitude to the Bill. Any further claim on his part that he is interested in advancing the cause of women will have a hollow ring. Women will make their own deductions. They may feel that he wants them to be pregnant and ignorant.

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 19 February 1985.
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