asked the Minister for Health the provision made in his Department for pre-school education.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Pre-School Education.
2.
I am replying to this question instead of my colleague the Minister for Education to whom it was originally directed since support from public funds towards the financing of day care facilities for pre-school children usually comes from health sources.
Grants to assist the development and operation of such centres may be paid by health boards who have the discretion to decide what particular centres to assist and the extent of the assistance. Generally speaking this is done by way of financially assisting and encouraging voluntary efforts to establish centres particularly those providing substantially for the children of disadvantaged families.
In 1983, the latest year for which figures are available, health boards grant-aided 230 centres, catering for almost 6,000 children, at a cost of £1 million. Figures relating to 1984 are currently being collated and it is my intention that funding for this purpose be at least maintained at last year's level for the coming year.
There is at present no statutory regulation of day care facilities. However, the question of regulating day care services or governing their standards will be provided for in the new Children (Care and Protection) Bill. I might mention that a working party, established by me, to examine the minimum legal requirements and standards which should apply in the regulation and registration of day care services for children has almost completed its deliberations and is expected to report shortly. The recommendations contained in the report will be taken into consideration in the new Children Bill.
Can the Minister indicate to the House how much is in the programme for the current year to grant aid pre-school facilities? Would the Minister agree that the operation of this system on an ad hoc basis up to now, while not decrying some valuable work which has been done, has been unsatisfactory in the sense that is has not been organised nationally and that it would be highly desirable to have day care facilities organised on a national basis so that the disadvantaged areas referred to could be provided with the facilities?
There has been a very rapid growth in recent years. In 1981 we were spending £400,000. In 1983 the figure increased to £1 million. In 1985 it will be well over £1 million. The number of centres opened was about 230 in 1983 and is about 250 now. The time has come to examine the role of the centres. The money we have put in on a statutory basis, which supplements the substantial amount of money going in on a voluntary basis, has grown considerably to well over £1 million. I would imagine that when the new Children (Care and Protection) Bill is introduced the situation will be regularised effectively. In the Bill there will be specific regulations for the statutory control of those centres.
I was referring not so much to the question of statutory control of the existing centres as to the provision of these centres on a national basis. Would the Minister agree that in recent times the tendency has been for the centres to be set up in advantaged areas rather than in disadvantaged areas? Will the Minister direct his attention towards ensuring that they are provided in disadvantaged areas as a priority?
I agree the tendency has been for middle income and upper income groups to establish such centres on a voluntary basis. The moneys expended in my Department are specifically geared in the health board programme towards the disadvantaged areas and particularly disadvantaged individuals such as single parents or a family where there is only one parent who has to go out to work and young children have to be cared for. That kind of allocation is being made by us and I have resisted a substantial number of applications where people who could well afford to do it are not doing it.
I understood the Minister to say these grants were paid by the health boards under section 65. Am I right in believing the health boards have discretion in paying these grants and that, as they are non-statutory grants and every health board now has deficit, they will be the first to suffer if the health boards are obliged to maintain their statutory services first?
The allocations are substantial. It is true they are paid out under section 65, but the health boards outside the Eastern Health Board area more so than inside the Eastern Health Board area have been supporting a growing number. I do not know the exact number now. It was about 120 in 1981 and it is 250 odd now. European Social Fund money to some extent and additional money currently available on the social employment scheme side will go into that area comfortably. Young people are extraordinarily competent in working in this area and are only too willing to take up this kind of employment which can be regularised. I agree it is a discretionary payment by a health board and some health boards have much more direct involvement with the voluntary bodies than others.
The Minister has not got power to ensure that that amount of money will be spent each year?
It is a devolved system of health administration. I wish I had it.
The Minister said £1 million was paid out in 1983. How was that divided as between the different health boards?
I have not got that information. It is the total expenditure of the health boards as collated. I can get the information broken down for the Deputy centre by centre for 1984. Currently we are compiling the 1984 figure. I will send it on to the Deputy.
Would the Minister agree that it is widely recognised that pre-schooling is almost essential particularly for disadvantaged children and that it is not satisfactory to have it provided on virtually an ad hoc basis and on the basis of initiatives from local areas which do not always come from disadvantaged areas? Could he give us the breakdown of the 230 day care facilities which are being provided voluntarily? Could he indicate how many of those centres are provided in the Dublin area?
I can get that information for the Deputy from our child care division giving the developments in the Dublin area. I will send that information to the Deputy. I have forgotten the first part of the question.
Is it satisfactory that these centres are provided on an ad hoc basis and not on a planned basis to ensure that the services are developed?
This has been very much an ad hoc development. The role of the health boards in the first instance must be to provide special assistance for families who are deprived or are facing a breakdown and, above all, for children who are disadvantaged in the community. I have strong views on this. It should be more integrated into the education system. The Deputy will recall the howls of execration which greeted the attempts in this House of the Minister for Education to reduce the age of entry into school. I am not satisfied that there is sufficient integration between age on entry to pre-school and the national school system. That is a question to which this House should address itself.
Before the Minister leaves that question——
We should pass on from that question. Twenty minutes of Question Time have elapsed and we are only on the second question.
But the question was very specific and the Minister has deviated. How can he assure the House that £1 million or more will be spent in the current year, seeing that this is a developed responsibility of the health boards?
In our discussions with the health boards we have paticularly impressed upon them the need to maintain the subventions. In fairness to the boards, they generally have pressure on them to provide more and more facilities in this area.
But they have not the money.
We have not in any way encouraged the health boards to reduce subventions.