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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 21 May 1985

Vol. 358 No. 8

Canals Bill, 1985 [Seanad]: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

When I was in possession the last day I referred to the fact that our canals are the most under-used waterways in Europe. It is obvious that we are not a water sports people. I welcomed the Minister's decision, and praised him for his imagination, to transfer the canals from CIE ownership to that of the Board of Works. I was saying that I hoped it would fairly quickly be established where the responsibility lies for the maintenance of the canals. Limerick Corporation found itself in difficulties there. When they tried to improve the environmental aspect of the canals they were not sure whether the Board of Works, the ESB or somebody else owned the banks and some other body were responsible for the waterways. Due to the development of the hydro-electric scheme in Limerick in the late twenties and early thirties, the Shannon silted up below the junction of the Mulcaire with the Shannon. I can remember swimming and camping there as a boy, just beside Annacotty where there was then only one sand island. Now the rivers are completely blocked with sand. In conjunction with what the Board of Works propose doing with regard to the canal, they should examine the silting up, because it slowed down the flow and the water coming into the canal from the Shannon became stagnant.

Also, that beautiful canal was ruined by public authority vandalism. I do not know who was responsible for taking the decision, but something was built under Mike Madden's bridge which was taller than the Berlin Wall. What would have been a centrepiece of a beautiful marina, if we had the imagination or capacity to develop it, was ruined. I ask the Minister, and through him the Board of Works, to look very closely at the whole policy of bringing our waterways into line with those of the rest of Europe. We often lament the dearth of tourists but seem criminally neglectful of areas which could be an obvious goldmine for tourism, especially European tourists and Germans in particular. A whole new industry is waiting to be developed and exploited if the work is undertaken with the proper imagination and sensitivity.

I welcome those aspects of the Bill which say that the Board of Works will co-operate with local groups, voluntary organisations and so on to beautify the canals. The policy should be to retain, in so far as is possible, their original character. Many voluntary groups are doing this. In particular, in Limerick the Canal Restoration Committee have availed of youth employment schemes to make tremendous improvements in clearing the banks and brushweeds putting the canal in a much better shape. I earnestly appeal to the Minister concerned to make as much use as possible of the social employment schemes for those over 25 and the youth employment schemes and to encourage voluntary organisations to become involved in developing local community pride.

Some canals have a very under-utilised amenity. I am familiar with the proposal which has been sent to the Board of Works by a company called Agways. It is an acronym used by an international company responsible for the generation of small local hydro-electric schemes. I understand that there is a provision in EC legislation that where any company or organisation within any of the EC countries can generate their own energy or electricity without relying on imports of coal or oil from outside the Community, the authority in the country responsible for the generation of the electricity — in this case the ESB — must buy that electricity so generated. This company have already put forward a very attractive scheme to the Board of Works in respect of the Eglinton canal in Galway, which is not in my constituency. The same company are developing a project for the canal at Limerick. By merely clearing the head of the canal there would be a headrace and a drop of about eight feet; and by putting pipes underneath and developing a small hydro-electric generating scheme there would be no interference whatever with the environment. That can create an outturn of £50,000 per year. If some local organisations were interested enough, they should be encouraged — or indeed commercial companies, but ideally voluntary organisations where the money can be raised to start these schemes. Some are already in existence generating electricity, doing very well and making money. That money could be ploughed back into the development of the canals and their amenities.

Limerick city is particularly fortunate in that it has some of the finest stretches of waterway anywhere in Europe. People from Hamburg, in particular, have commented that they find it impossible to believe that there are areas in western Europe with clear flowing water. Limerick city has, by a preservation order, made all the Shannon surrounding the city and the canals and waterways a wild bird sanctuary, for the preservation of game. This is working very successfully in my own area. Within a short distance of where I live there is a profusion of wild duck, mallard and swans. Side by side with this development of the canals I would ask the Office of Public Works to develop that aspect of our heritage, as part of the national trust given to us.

In many ways we are scandalously neglectful of some of the most scenic parkland and waterways in the whole of Europe. I recognise the Minister's appeal for patience from those who may be anxious to get everything done yesterday. It has been said that the best is often the enemy of the good. We want the best immediately and overstep the good. If we gradually turn the ship of public opinion around, even at the rate of a couple of degrees per annum, we can restore a magnificent amenity, not alone for the benefit of the tourists but also for ourselves.

I welcome section 4 which provides for the handing over of the documents relating to the original construction of the canals and the various Acts of Parliament which were introduced for their construction. Some of those documents have been written up extensively by Charles Murphy, a noted Limerick historian and archaeologist. They are absolutely intriguing in their revelation of the social conditions prevailing at the time of the construction of the canals. I give an example of when potatoes were being transported above Clanlara at O'Brien's Bridge that the potatoes fell off the barges and when the starving people picked them up they were forced to hand them back. I urge that that documentation be very carefully preserved. There are in that documentation many a cap and gown for scholars yet unborn. These records should be put on micro film and not retained in one central archive. I know the tremendous and very welcome interest of the Minister of State, Deputy Nealon, in things cultural and archival and I urge him to do this. It would be a tremendous boon for local historians and scholars.

This is one of the most imaginative Bills and is very welcome. I congratulate the Minister of State and the Government.

I take up the theme of the previous speaker and say that I welcome this Bill. The proposed transfer of the Grand and the Royal Canals from CIE to the Commissioners of Public Works can only do good. I am heartened that I find myself completely in tune with the speeches made on all sides of the House in this regard. If that fund of goodwill is translated into action the work undertaken can only succeed.

I like the approach of the Minister of State in introducing the Bill. On this side of the House we offer our complete co-operation with the commissioners in their work to maintain the canals for public amenity purposes. This can embrace travelling or boating on the canals, fishing, swimming, various water sports and even walking along the banks. However, I hope that this transfer is not merely a paper transfer, a legal document that will lie mouldering somewhere on a dusty shelf. I want to see the interest aroused by this discussion leading to a reawakening of the extraordinary interest and ambition that saw these canals started well over 200 years ago. The main line was completed in 1805. I want to see the Office of Public Works show the same commitment and will to succeed. I trust that, in 20 years time in 2005 when we celebrate the 200th anniversary of the completion of the canal, we, too, will be able to celebrate 20 years of progress and investment.

I stress that investment will be needed. In 1805 the State and the shareholders spent well over £1 million on the completion of the Grand Canal mainline. We, too, should be prepared to invest a comparable sum in today's money so that the full amenity potential of the canals may be realised. I live in a county with close ties with both canals. My home is quite close to the Grand Canal. All the locals swim at Digby Bridge or fish in the fine stretches of the canal that abound in coarse fish. Many of them go boating in the Robertstown-Allenwood area. Probably we take these amenities for granted. Other people who are not so fortunate to live in such an area are the people who alert us to the treasures we have on our doorstep.

Unfortunately, CIE with their many responsibilities, growing headaches with public transport, cutbacks and increasing debts must have looked on the placing under their wing of the Royal Canal in 1944 and the Grand Canal in 1950 as somewhat of a mixed blessing. The interim period has been merely a holding operation. To give CIE their due, in the main the canals are still navigable. However, some desperate suggestions were made from time to time regarding the future of the canals. In my early days as a public representative I remember attending a meeting where there was a suggestion that the canal in Dublin should be filled in, that it should be used for a roadway or that a watermain or a sewer should be run along the bed of the canal from Islandbridge to the sea. I remember attending one meeting where the mechanics of hoisting boats from the sea with huge cranes, transporting them to Islandbridge and dropping them gently into the water was explained to us by well-meaning economists who were anxious to cut corners. Thankfully, at that time we had vocal visionaries too, such as the late Stephen Rynne and others whose objections were listened to. It was because of their objections to that proposal that the Dublin link with the sea and the Grand Canal has been retained.

During that time acts of official vandalism were perpetrated. The huge wooden beams used to lever open the lock gates were cut with a chainsaw on the Naas branch of the canal, reputedly because the gates were dangerous. That happened sometime in the early seventies. The Naas line to Sallins started 199 years ago. It was brought the two and a half miles to Naas and eventually a further five miles away to Corbally harbour at a cost of £30,768. It is nice to know that the stretch from Sallins to Naas is now being restored by a local committee and the county council and the new gates that are completed with Irish labour will soon be in position. It will be nice that the 200th anniversary of the opening of the Naas part of the canal can be celebrated properly in 1985-86. I want to see a continuation and acceleration of community co-operation with the Office of Public Works with regard to the canals.

On one matter I have to be very critical of the attitude of CIE. This concerns the infamous by-law 51 which was always a thorn in the side of unfortunates who lived beside the canal and who were served by roadways that were under the jurisdiction of the people in charge of the canal and who were affected by this by-law 51. In many cases the by-roads near the canal were black-topped and taken in charge by Kildare County Council under the very good local improvements scheme. Everyone deserves to have a decent roadway to their door. In some cases, however, the CIE engineering staff were most unco-operative. They spoke of the danger of black-topping a roadway on or near the canal banks, thereby generating heavier traffic that might damage the banks. I remember I participated in one deputation to the head office of CIE and despite the expert opinions advanced by the council engineers who knew about road making and who had much more experience of it than the chief engineer of CIE, the attitude of that organisation was that they still denied people the right to have a good road to their homes. They quoted this infernal by-law 51 as something that was sacrosanct and could not be ignored.

When I asked the chief engineer on that occasion — the Minister of State, Deputy Bermingham, was with me — what would be his attitude if we got support in this House to introduce legislation to revoke that by-law his answer was that he would look for another by-law. I want an assurance that that kind of closed mind and tyrannical approach will have no place in the new set-up in the Office of Public Works when canals are being discussed. I hope that, if possible, something will be written into the Bill to ensure that where co-operation is needed the Office of Public Works and the local authorities will co-operate to provide people with a decent roadway to their homes.

Apparently there can be some difficulty with regard to the overuse of roadways along the banks.

I know that the area involved was in the Ballyteague-Robertstown area which is the highest part of the canal fed by the Milltown feeder. It was pointed out to us — and I appreciate this — that a break in the bank there could cause large problems. I know that a breakdown in the Daingean area did cause problems later on. But where there is a will there is a way. Apparently as far as CIE were concerned there was no will and no way. I know there will be difficultues but one can surmount them if one tries. In some areas also the canal or the canal culvert has impeded drainage, maintaining a high water level in some areas that has inhibited housebuilding and rendered the provision of sanitary services impossible. I am thinking of areas like Allenwood. I trust that the wellbeing of local people will have high preference in the thinking of the new body, that the idea that people are important will get a high priority and rating.

Section 3 refers to the transfer of staff. I have been in touch with the Minister of State. He tells me that a person shall, on vesting day, enjoy conditions of service not less beneficial in aggregate than the conditions of service to which he was subject immediately before vesting day, having regard to (i) any adjustment in the scale of pay and (ii) any compensation given.

I might point out that present employees of CIE on the canal enjoy subsidised travel arrangements for themselves and their immediate families. I realise that CIE could so facilitate them, being involved in public transport. It is a privilege that is much appreciated. I trust that this will be continued or, if it cannot, that employees will be adequately compensated. Other minor matters arise such as protective clothing. I trust that these matters will be sorted out with the employees and unions involved when this is being discussed. It is vital that goodwill be maintained in a period of transition such as this.

The amenity value of our canals is tremendous. While it calls for a high level of commitment and expenditure to realise its full potential, I hope such will be forthcoming. I believe that the Office of Public Works are the correct people to undertake this work. I say that because of the wonderful work that has been done on the restoration of The Royal Hospital in Kilmainham. I consider that to be a worthy showpiece for any visitors to our capital city, a delightful example of restoration and preservation of which any city could be proud.

Our canals could play the same role in a different context. For those who wish to experience the quiet and peace of pastoral Ireland, away from the hurly-burly of the city, living life at a leisurely, languid pace, the canal is the place to be. A Kildare poet, William A. Byrne, who was born in the canal village of Rathangan and was Professor of English in Galway University described it much better than I could when he said: and I quote:

The purple heather is the cloak

God gave the bogland brown

But man has made a pall of smoke

To hide the distant town.

The late Father P.J. Murphy of Robertstown gave us a taste of what our canals could be. His canal festa attracted tourists from many countries and visitors from all over Ireland; there were there presidents and ambassadors. I remember at one time that the festival was opened by Barbara Castle who had been involved in communications and transport in England. The horse-drawn barge there helped to re-enact the lost life of yesteryear and the banquets held in the restored hotel completed the illusion. However, Father Murphy's tragic death and the most recent recession put paid to our plans for Robertstown. Perhaps, with the help of the Office of Public Works, Bord Fáilte, the community and other interested bodies those plans can be put into action again.

At one stage there was a plan to flood an area near the canal to provide boating facilities. We are rather conscious of the fact that one can only go up the canal or down the canal. In one instance, in Ballinteague and Allenwood, one can take a circular trip. If there were boating facilities, if an area of cutaway bog in the Lullymore area was flooded, it would lead to endless possibilities for boating, sailing, fishing and all sorts of water sports and leisure activities. I firmly believe that a canal cruise must be one of the most restful types of holidays in which one could engage. Fishing on the canal has enormous possibilities that have only been touched on here and there around Ireland.

The village of Prosperous in my parish is probably the best example one could give of the effects of fishing and of a little foresight and work on the part of committed people. About 20 years ago a Longford man made the first move to stock the canal with coarse fish and to promote fishing competitions; gradually the bait was taken. Foreign fishermen in the beginning mostly those from Britain — came and kept returning. The annual fishing competition attracted sponsorship. In recent times the sponsorship has been to the tune of £1,100, with special efforts being made to encourage disabled anglers to the area. The result is that most years now see approximately 250 foreign anglers in Prosperous for a fishing competition at this time of year. The promoters and those involved in the catering end make a special effort to attract them back in September and they have been reasonably successful.

Because of this influx of visitors bed and breakfasts have grown in the village. Prosperous now is the only area in Kildare — and I am sure also for many miles around — capable of providing 300 beds per night. This is because of the fishing activity. There are also three fine restaurants there to which one could bring anybody one wished to impress, ensuring that they got a very nice meal. Because the canal has brought visitors for fishing this has generated other business as well in the area. For example, local lounges have been extended to cater for the trade. Also Comhaltas groups have begun to play and find there a very appreciative and cosmopolitan audience. Some of our leading musicians and singers of today will remark, on the sleeves of the records they make, that they gave their first public performances in Prosperous. In this connection I might mention Liam Óg Flynn, Christie Moore and Donal Lunny.

We must continue to promote our canals in this way. In a Foreword to Canaliana— I think it was the 1973 edition — Stephen Rynne having referred to the fact that the canals were jokingly regarded as the repositories of old bikes, beds and dead dogs, said:

All has changed. Nowadays hundreds of thousands are interested in canals in a general way, tens of thousands use them and there are at least a thousand canal monomaniacs. The number in each category increases rapidly.

There is a three-fold attraction: the canals have a fascinating past, a pleasant present and an exciting future. Canal history is easy on the mind; after all the heyday of water transport was in great-great grandfather's time and his removal from the scene is not by any means epoch-size.

Short of the de luxe form of canal enjoyment, cruising, there are hundreds of ways one can become part of the canal's pleasant present. If we were not typewriter tethered just now, we could be fishing on the Landenstown stretch, leaning over humpy bridges, bird or dragonfly watching, listening to the rustling of the weeds or popping over to Robertstown to see what's cooking.

There is a development plan for the Robertstown Canal on which much work has been done. It was the late Ted Barrett who died this year who wrote a programme, Towards an Irish Broadlands, where he likened the work done in East Anglia with what could be done in the Robertstown area. Other people such as Father Murphy and Andy Cole added to that work and pointed out what could be achieved with the co-operation and efforts of everybody concerned. This list might not be complete but there is an input from Eastern Region Tourism, Bord Fáilte, Kildare County Council, the Office of Public Works, Bord na Móna, CIE, ESB, the Department of Transport, the Agricultural Institute, Inland Waterways, Inland Fisheries, Federation of Marine Industries, the Joint Committee of Bord Fáilte and the Forest and Wildlife Section of the Department of Fisheries and Forestry, local landowners and local representatives, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education and various fishing clubs, gun clubs and community councils in the area. They could be brought together to embark on a programme to ensure the maintenance of navigable waterways and the renovation of branches closed but not derelict, and undertake new enterprises aimed at creating a broadlands. All this could be achieved by such a programme.

Recently at a committee meeting of the Council of Europe regarding environmental conservation I was made aware of grants available at European level for special works of conservation. If we have any area worthy of international recognition we should look for international support to enable us to preserve and conserve that area. The present resolution deals only with certain funds available for natural habitats for endangered wildlife but this could be extended to include other flora and fauna as well.

On one occasion I spent a lovely holiday in The Netherlands as a guest of the Dutch Government and we saw their canals and waterways. We travelled on the mighty Rhine and also on the tiny canals in the university city of Delft. I was struck by the cleanliness of this very populous land and also by how much they made of the tiny amenities they had. I became friendly with a Dutchman from Scheveningen near The Hague who was interested in shooting and fishing. When he came to our country he could not believe that we had so much water and so few people to avail of the fishing and shooting. He must have felt he was in paradise. I have seen English fishermen get up early in the morning and go down to the canal to book their place on the bank at the crack of dawn in the hope that they would be able to retain that place for the day, not knowing that they had miles of canal available to them and uncluttered waterways from which to choose. They catch coarse fish and if a competition is being held they put the fish in a little net, have them weighed and return them to the water.

At this time of the year the weeds grow in the canals. It was the policy of CIE to spray them with weedkiller to inhibit their growth. Unfortunately it had a bad effect on fish life and the fact that this problem always occurred just before the annual fishing competition was a very poor example of the approach of CIE. One would have expected a more sympathetic approach. I became very much aware of this malpractice during my time as Minister for Fisheries and I am pleased to see that in section 6 provision is made to cater for such eventualities. The commissioners must consult with the Minister for Fisheries when improvement or development works are to be undertaken which would be likely seriously to affect fish stocks in the canal. I welcome that provision.

I want to see the Office of Public Works taking an active part in the future of the canals, co-operating with local bodies in order to maximise amenity values. I hope they will institute schemes and encourage local people to become involved. Not many years ago the Wicklow Way was opened in order to facilitate people who wished to undertake a long walk in the hills. A route was laid out and provision was made for stiles where it went through private property. This scheme is very effective. I have discussed it with our county planners in Kildare and they see the canal banks as the ideal place to introduce a Kildare canter or a midland marathon. This would entail only the cutting of bushes, the provision of stiles and the restoration of the right of way.

Earlier speakers suggested up-grading traditional swimming areas in the canals. That would be a help. Eventually we might have a museum in the Roberstown area when the restoration of the hotel is complete. We might open up the navigation of the Milltown feeder which leads into the Pollardstown fen. This is a fenland which we have already paid for. It is now reverting to its former state and flora and fauna are available for inspection by students and botanists. We might also encourage the preservation of various types of bog and peatland for educational tours. Possibly we could have a display centre and a folk park with camping and caravan facilities. Not only would we be catering for foreign visitors but these facilities would be available to the one million people living within an hour's drive in the greater Dublin area. It would not be an expensive holiday but would provide value for money. Even without spending any money people could enjoy a trip in this area. People do not expect Intercontinental or grade A hotels. They want to see us as we are and if we have wholesome food, clean air and water it will go all one way towards satisfying them.

In conclusion I should like to quote what Ruth Delany wrote in her magnum opus, The Grand Canal of Ireland:

Legislation is being prepared to transfer the Grand Canal system, including the Barrow Navigation, from CIE to the Board of Works. The latter already administers the Shannon Navigation and it should then be possible to develop all the waterways under a single authority.

The long history of the Grand Canal Company is at an end but the Grand Canal is just about to enter a new phase.

I trust that her words are prophetic.

As the Minister of State who will be responsible for the canals after their transfer from CIE, I welcome this Bill. Indeed, I can say that I have been pressing for a number of years to have this legislation passed and I am delighted that the end is now in sight.

In order to expedite the legislation processes in this instance, the Bill was introduced in the Seanad first and it has now come to this House. Much valuable work has been done by our colleagues in the Seanad already and this has resulted in two amendments being made to the Bill as originally introduced there. These were in respect of the provision for the staff to be transferred and the protection of the fishery of the canals, both mentioned by Deputy Power. I am gratified that the Bill has aroused such interest and has received such attention in the Seanad.

One of the matters which received great airing in the Seanad was the question as to what my office's future role in respect of the canals will be. Firstly, it will be obliged to carry out the statutory obligation imposed on it by the Oireachtas and over and beyond that it must act in accordance with the Government decision in this matter.

At this stage it might be useful to recall that decision. The Government decided that the Grand Canal system is to be developed for navigation and general amenity purposes and that the Royal Canal is to be developed, according as resources permit by carrying out improvement works on selected stretches. The decision differentiates between the roles of the two canals and, quite obviously, the canals' development will follow different patterns and require different treatment. It will be a matter for my office to ensure that each canal is treated so as to achieve the maximum benefits.

It is most appropriate that the canals should be transferred to the Commissioners of Public Works which is a body with wide experience in the amenity field. Anyone who looks at their works in national parks and national monuments and, of particular relevance in this instance, their works on the Shannon Navigation, will have confidence in their ability to do a good job on the Grand and Royal Canals.

The Commissioners of Public Works are, of course, no newcomers to inland navigation. They have been involved with it for over 150 years and they have managed the Shannon Navigation continuously since 1846, which is nearly 140 years. During that time there have been many changes in the types of traffic using the Shannon and the Grand Canal. Initially, passenger traffic as well as cargo traffic was important. This was mainly between Dublin and Limerick, via the Grand Canal to Shannon Harbour and then along the Shannon to Limerick. Passenger traffic succumbed to competition from the railways in 1859 and was not revived until 1897 when the Shannon Development Company, under the aegis of the Commissioners of Public Works, began to operate passenger traffic between Killaloe and Carrick-on-Shannon. These services continued to operate until the First World War.

After 1930 cargo traffic on the Shannon and on the Grand Canal showed a marked decline as road transport began to be more firmly established. The Grand Canal Company, and later CIE, continued to operate a fleet of barges which were particularly useful during the war years when road and rail traffic was curtailed. But, with the return to normal conditions, the use of the waterways declined rapidly and all commercial traffic ceased in 1960.

In the same year, however, commercial cruisers appeared on the Shannon and there has been a dramatic increase in the growth of leisure traffic in the intervening years. The number of passages through locks increased almost ninefold in the 20 years between 1963 and 1983. While there has been a levelling off in recent years there are signs that a further increase in traffic is on the way. The figures for 1984 are up over 6 per cent on those for 1982.

The Commissioners have proved equal to the task of catering for the different traffic demands as they arose. An extensive programme of improvements has been carried out on the Shannon to develop the great potential of the waterway for recreational use. The buoyage system has been improved and augmented, disused habours have been dredged, new harbours constructed and others enlarged. The Lecarrow Canal, linking the village of Lecarrow with Lough Ree, has been re-opened to traffic and the Lough Allen Canal has been re-opened as far as Acres Lough.

There can be no doubt but that the commissioners are well capable of developing the canals to meet the needs of the public.

The Grand Canal as it stands is fully navigable, apart from some spur lines and provides a through navigation from the east coast to the Shannon and via the Barrow Navigation to the south coast. In the past this canal served a vital role as a commerical artery for the areas it served. While one cannot rule out the possibility that the future may bring a return to some extent to this role, this does not look likely at present. Existing traffic on this canal is confined to pleasure cruising and recreational boating and I would dearly like to see this develop in the same way as the Shannon. As well as navigation there is scope for the development of other recreational activities such as fishing and walking and the commissioners are prepared — I stress that in response to Deputy Power's point — to co-operate with all interests in the provision of facilities for such pastimes. However, the prime role of this canal will be as a navigable waterway and the commissioner's stewardship of this canal will take full cognisance of it.

Many areas were mentioned by Deputy Power. He covered the Grand Canal in the Kildare area but I should like to add the Barrow extension. Coming from the town of Athy and having learned to swim in the canal, I appreciate the points Deputy power made in regard to that area. Fishing has been developed on that stretch of canal and the principle people involved in that work are the people of Prosperous. There has been a big influx of visitors in recent years to fish on that stretch of canal, particularly from Britain. There is no doubt that hotels, and other establishments, have benefited from that business. In Rathangan massive development has taken place with the help of AnCO. I am interested in development work in those areas and, as Minister responsible for the canals in the future, I am anxious to ensure that there will be full co-operation between the Office of Public Works and other interests. I am aware that since the provisions of the Bill were announced people have expressed an interest in developing fishing, boat hiring and boat building in areas along the canal. That could be a great help to the areas.

I mentioned spur lines. One such spur formerly served the town of Naas in my constituency and quite a lot of work has been done by Naas Urban District Council in re-instating it. The council have cleaned the upper reaches and, with the aid of sponsorship and the co-operation of the Inland Waterways Association and AnCo, have provided new gates to four locks. One further reach remains to be done to finish the job. CIE dredged the section of the spur line from the last lock to the main line at Soldier's Island which is now navigable. When the job is finished the canal will provide a valuable amenity for the town of Naas, and I must say that the council are to be commended for their initiative in taking on this project. They have shown what can be done at local level to make the best use of this valuable resource and I hope that other authorities and voluntary bodies will follow their example.

The Royal Canal, unfortunately, is not in the same condition. It is not of course necessary as a navigation route from Dublin to the Shannon as the Grand Canal is adequate for the purpose. While I would not discount its restoration to navigation at some time in the future this is not likely to happen in my time in the House. I am well aware that it is the objective of many to see the full restoration of this and, both myself and the Commissioners of Public Works, would also like this, but for the present the focus for the development of the Royal Canal will have to be on the local amenity aspect. I find it hard to see any major extension of the navigable waterway in the short term. I assure interested people that my policy will be to ensure that no decisions are taken which would add to the obstacles already in the way of restoring the canal.

Some mention has to be made of the valuable work already undertaken on the canals by voluntary groups and the local authorities. Without these the task in hand would be much greater and I hope that this co-operative spirit will continue after the canals have passed into direct State care. Many may feel that their voluntary roles have been fulfilled with this step but I hope that this will not be the case. My office will welcome all help and co-operation it receives in this regard and will co-operate with all parties to further the interests of the canals. The Inland Waterways Association of Ireland, the Royal Canal Amenity Group, and other voluntary groups as well as Bord Fáilte, the fishery boards, the relevant local authorities who have undertaken works on the canals all deserve the highest praise and I hope to be able to count on the continuation of their help.

Previous speakers have mentioned the necessity for the commissioners to consult with interested parties. I assure Deputies that the commissioners will always be available for consultation and will fully consider all proposals made to them in respect of the canals. The blending and mixing of the many uses which can be made of the canals will be a particularly onerous task. It is essential that the commissioners have sufficient control to ensure that conflicts are prevented and that the canals are used for and to the maximum benefit of the people. For this reason the commissioners are acutely aware of the necessity for consultation. Insofar as it will be possible, the commissioners will facilitate all proposals for the advancement of the canals, be they from individuals, voluntary groups, local authorities or other interests.

No formal planning for the future of the canals has, as I indicated earlier, yet been undertaken within my office. The existing levels of both engineering and administrative staff have made it impossible to allocate personnel to this important task. However, officials of my office and the Department of the Public Service have had consultations in this regard and I am pressing to have this aspect resolved at the earliest date. Pre-planning for the development of the canals is of the utmost importance and, while the canals' current levels of operation should not be affected by this, I am anxious to move onto a more active development of the canals as soon as possible.

The first step will be to survey the canals from the property and engineering aspects. On the basis of the results of these surveys development and maintenance plans and programmes will be prepared in consultation where necessary with interested parties. I could not at this stage say when such plans might be finalised as this will depend on the resources to be allocated to the commissioners for the canals. I will be urging that these will be the most generous possible so that my hopes and, indeed, those also of the many Deputies who have contributed to this debate can be fully realised. I regret that I cannot be more definite in this regard but I will not give commitments now that I may not be able to keep as to do so would only be storing up future troubles.

The combination of the Grand and Royal Canals with the Shannon Navigation will give the commissioners responsibility for one of the finest inland navigation systems in these islands. This will be no small task, but I am confident that the commissioners, in their stewardship of the canals, will be as successful as they have been with the Shannon Navigation.

In the last century the canals brought prosperity to the areas they serviced by the commercial nature of their operation. While this is no longer the case the canals can still contribute to the prosperity of the communities they serve by attracting visitors from at home and abroad to their waters, be it for boating, fishing, hiking or any of the many other recreational pastimes that can be pursued on or beside them. I have great hopes that the various towns along the canals will enjoy increased economic benefits and that many jobs will be created in the provision of services, the improvement of facilities and in manufacture of boats and accessories.

A lot of attention was given in the Seanad to the questions of fishing and the protection of the fish stocks. As I already mentioned, the Bill was amended as a result of this discussion. The amendment will give legal effect to an administrative arrangement already agreed by which the commissioners will consult with the Department of Fisheries and Forestry on matters relating to fishing. The commissioners will at all times be conscious of the amenity value of canal fishing and will bear this in mind in the operation and development of the canals.

Indeed, the Government are also well aware of this and have decided that a liaison committee should be set up between representatives of my office and the Department of Fisheries and Forestry to consider all matters relating to fishing in the canals. Consultations have already taken place with the Department with a view to setting up the committee.

The other amendment introduced to the Bill was in respect of the staff to be transferred from CIE to the commissioners. Again this was an amendment which I welcomed as it copperfastens the guarantee that the workers should not suffer any aggregate loss as a result of the transfer. I am delighted that in recent discussions between representatives of my office, CIE and the unions involved that the union representatives welcomed the proposal. The detailed provisions for the transfer of the staff will be the subject of full discussions with the staff's representatives and initial indications are that these will be undertaken in an amicable atmosphere and that there will be no insurmountable difficulties involved in this regard. However, there are so many considerations which will have to be covered, I realise that these will take time to complete. It is important that the negotiators have adequate time to examine proposals, consult those involved and reach mutually acceptable conclusions. However, it is important also that no time be lost and I would ask the staff representatives to bear this in mind in approaching their task. I will be urging my officials to ensure that there will be no avoidable delay on their part in bringing the negotiations to a satisfactory conclusion.

At this stage it would not be remiss to mention the sterling work of the CIE staff who maintained and operated the canals in difficult times. They deserve the highest praise and I hope that their devotion to their duties will continue when the canals are finally transferred. The management of CIE also merit praise in this regard. As the national transport authority the management of the canals could not have been high in their priorities but nevertheless they have taken good care of the canals in recent years having regard to the limited resources available to them, and for this they must be congratulated.

Deputies Wilson and Reynolds mentioned the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell Canal which connects the Shannon and the Erne Navigation systems. It would be inappropriate to provide for this canal or indeed any other navigation in this Bill which is a legislative vehicle simply for the transfer of the Grand and Royal Canals from CIE to the Commissioners of Public Works. However, this does not mean that the potential of the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell Canal is being ignored. Indeed it is not. This is quite a complicated problem as we have to see how the conflicting requirements of drainage and navigation can best be reconciled. It should be remembered too, that this canal never functioned satisfactorily. However, I am glad to say that the engineering study is now well advanced and I hope to place the report before the Government for consideration in mid-1986. Pending this I am afraid I could not give any commitment in respect of the future of this canal.

Deputy Prendergast mentioned the position of a former lock house in Limerick which has been vandalised. My office are negotiating with Limerick Corporation who are interested in acquiring this property.

I am gratified at the welcome the proposed transfer of the canals to the Commissioners of Public Works received and I must say that, like the Deputies who welcomed this, I find the logic of such a move undeniable. However, I noted the guarded criticism of some in this respect. Deputy Wilson referred to my office as multi-faceted and this is indeed true. Involved as it is with the many organs of State it has many calls on its services. To say that these demands grossly outweigh the resources and facilities available to meet them would be an understatement. The commisioners' resources are not unlimited. I only wish their resources were such that everybody's demands on them could be immediately satisfied, but in a tight situation the commissioners endeavour to meet their obligations in the most efficient, competent, proper and fair manner. I hope that this will be borne in mind when the canals are actually transferred and that people's expectations are set at realistic levels.

The canals are national assets which we must cherish. They are an important part of our heritage. They provide examples of the craftsmanship and engineering skills possessed by our ancestors. The Commissioners of Public Works are doing marvellous work in the conservation of our heritage and with the resources available to them in engineering, architecture and the natural sciences, I am certain that they will take good care of the canals.

I was born near the Barrow and, indeed, I still live close to it and to the Grand Canal-Barrow extension as it is known which links Dublin and Shannon with the south coast through the midlands. I have seen the Grand Canal in operation when there was commercial traffic on it and I witnessed the decline in this traffic. This Bill heralds a new era for the canals and I hope that the expectations of the many people who have pressed for this will be fulfilled. Let me say in passing that there is in my county a culture of the canals. The canals have a culture of their own and there is a bond between the people who work on the canals right along the full stretch and these people are dedicated to the preservation and the revival, if I might call it that, of the canals in the sense of reviving them as an amenity and as amenity navigation. That desire is not alone in people working on the canals but in people living all along them. The canals are an asset which we must cherish and they are an important part of our heritage. I hope that the development of the canals as outlined by the Government will bring greater prosperity to the country as a whole and in particular to the regions that they serve. I look forward to accepting my new responsibilities in this regard.

I should mention the points made by Deputy Power concerning the roads along the canal which have served people living on them and which CIE felt should not be transferred to the county council for fear of heavy traffic and that the banks would be damaged. I assure Deputy Power and everyone else that I am very familiar with this problem in my constituency. As Deputy Power said, when people need a decent roadway to their homes co-operation can and will be provided and we will do everything possible in that regard. The Deputy suggested that this should be written into the Bill. That is not necessary because we have power under the Bill to transfer any property on the canal, and if the commissioners agree that it is safe to transfer any road to a county council that can be done without any addition to the Bill as I read it.

We will be prepared to meet all the people interested in the canals and to co-operate with them as far as is humanly possible, keeping in context the overall welfare of the canal system which we hope to develop in a way similar to the Shannon Navigation. Having said that, I agree with Deputy Power that we should try to incorporate into our total plan for the canal the plans already drawn up by the late Father Murphy who did wonderful work in my constituency on developing the canal and its amenities and in reviving the old Canal Hotel at Robertstown. I appreciate the work done by all such as he. If we can develop the lake which is envisaged in the county plan for Kildare around Robertstown then that will be ideal.

I commend this Bill wholeheartedly to the House. I will be prepared at any time to meet any groups on this matter. Before I finish let me mention how the Department of Labour have co-operated with various amenity groups for the Royal and Grand Canals in developing the amenities of their area. I hold up as two of the best examples of how a local community can co-operate with us under this Bill the Kilcock people on the Royal Canal and the Rathangan people on the Grand Canal. I know of other examples the effect of which I do not wish to minimise, but these are two examples of how local people can help in restoring this wonderful heritage and enabling us to have one of the most wonderful waterways not alone in these islands but in Europe. If we do that we will be doing a great deal for the advancement of prosperity in the area and throughout the country.

As I have said, I commend this Bill to the House. In doing so, I am echoing the statement in the second annual report of the Commissioners of Public Works of 1833 — quite a while ago — that "the subject of Inland Navigation is one worthy of much consideration and deeply interesting for every well-wisher of Ireland".

In common with previous speakers I welcome the provision in this Bill to transfer the Grand Canal and the Royal Canal from CIE to the Office of Public Works. I come from an area far removed from these two canals. We also have our canals. The Ballinamore-Ballyconnell Canal is very important in our area as is the Ulster Canal. They are important for two different reasons. I am glad the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works is here. There were proposals for the development of the canals and the Erne catchment in various reports over the past number of years. We hoped CIE funding would have been provided but it has not been provided so far.

I live in close proximity to the Ulster Canal. The canal went out of operation during the first world war. There were many stories about barrels of whiskey in the sheds and how they were pilfered. I visited the old lockkeeper on many occasions. The story was that he had whiskey in teapots, kettles and other utensils not normally used to store drink. At the time whiskey was fairly cheap and scarce. When the Ulster Canal went out of existence the company owed a fairly substantial amount of rates to Monaghan County Council. The council took over the canal and let the land and the lock houses to try to recoup as much as possible of the rates owing. The houses went into disrepair and I do not think anyone is living in them now. The land along the canal has been the subject of litigation and very vicious court cases about ownership.

A family lived in one of these houses on the verge of Monaghan town. When the son wanted to get married he erected a bungalow adjacent to the lock house on canal company property. That was about 12 years ago. Since then I have been trying unsuccessfully to get the Office of Public Works to agree to hand over to Monaghan County Council that portion of the land. That young man is paying a bridging loan. He could be in the Guinness Book of Records for paying the longest bridging loan ever. A Mr. Walsh was an officer in the Office of Public Works. He died before he got the land transferred. I have a letter in my possession from the late George Colley saying that the Department were willing to release the land to Monaghan County Council. This is 1985 and it still has not been released and that young man is still paying a bridging loan. A law case is pending which will involve a large number of neighbours. The case concerns a couple of acres of canal bank property. I understand the mortgage does not constitute a fee simple. The Office of Public Works are seeking legal opinion on something they were prepared to transfer years ago to Monaghan County Council. I ask the Minister of State to have this attended to.

Two hundred years ago there was not much talk about leisure or boating or water sports. People worked all the daylight hours for very little reward. This canal development would provide a great asset. Our waterways, our lakes, rivers and canals have a tremendous potential for development as amenities. With these amenities we could inveigle tourists to come to these areas. The Government seem to be intent on abolishing midland lakeland tourism organisations. The counties which make up the lakeland tourism areas in the midlands include Cavan, Monaghan, Westmeath, Roscommon, Offaly and Laois. There is a proposal, which is not acceptable, that Cavan-Monaghan should be put into the Donegal-Leitrim region. They have nothing in common. We would be going into the area of commercial hotels and seaside resorts. We have around 50 lakes in County Monaghan and about 24 of them are developed. Many of our rivers are badly polluted and not suitable for coarse or trout fishing. Therefore we depend on the lakes. With development they would provide a really valuable asset. The Government and Bord Fáilte should not attempt to split up the lakeland tourism regions at a time when the potential is being realised.

Much work was done to develop the lakes in the late sixties. When the late Erskine Childers was Minister for Transport and Power he took a special interest in that development. At that time the Border troubles started and we did not have the same number of people coming across the Border. Over the past year or so some groups provided small tanks to deal with pollution in areas where there is a problem. They provided these facilities out of their own resources now that there is no grant aid for this work.

Looking back on the history of the canals, it is amazing to find that the development and building of the canals signalled the era of the commencement of railway building. Undoubtedly there was more money earned and work created in respect of those two developments than was ever made from the usage made of them subsequently. At that time the Ulster Canal was developed so as to connect Lough Neagh with the River Erne from the Blackwater at Charlemont village in Armagh to the River Finn. It was to provide navigable waterways from Belfast to Lough Neagh and to the Blackwater and from North Monaghan to the east of that county. A total of between of 35 and 40 miles of canal was involved. William Dargan, the engineer who was in charge of the development, was reputed to be one of the best engineers of the time either in England or here in respect of road construction or of the development of waterways or of railways. In 1918 the figure he arrived at for the development of the waterway I have described was £223,000 but the highest reputed income from the canal after its opening was about £500 per annum net. The development involved some of the landed gentry and local merchants who had requested parliament to carry out the work.

Mr. Dargan at that time was taking on hopeless cases. He was doing the sort of work that Fóir Teoranta are doing now. If he were around today he would probably be called a liquidator. There would be plenty of work for him to do. It is said that the church in which I worship was being erected at that time by way of direct labour, with people giving of their time voluntarily to do the work. The local tradesmen were of a poor quality but Dargan's team were said to be superb. Bridges built by them stand as monuments to the quality of their work. They excelled in stonework. It is reputed that they were so much annoyed by the incompetence of the local builders that they demolished that church and then proceeded to rebuild it in the evenings in their spare time and after they had finished building bridges.

Deputy Wilson has referred to the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell canal. If this canal linkage between the Erne and the Shannon were developed we would have one of the greatest assets in Europe in so far as a waterway is concerned. We had looked to the cross-Border development in this respect. Much good work has been done as a result of the availability of the Border fund. The Hope Castle development in Castleblayney is an example of this work. I went through the grounds at the weekend. That fund is very useful to the Office of Public Works and to anybody else involved in this development. The Minister of State who is present comes from a county which, though not having much association with the Border, has got some benefit from the Border fund. Sometimes questions are asked in my constituency as to how that county succeeded in this way.

If the cake is big enough we do not mind someone else getting a little of it. There have been a number of studies related to the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell canal. I am glad to hear that the hydrological survey being conducted will be completed in 1986 but I trust it will not be subjected to the same fate as the many other studies in relation to this area. We have had, for example, the Erne catchment study, the Mourne-Newry stuady, the study conducted by the EC Social and Economic Committee which concerned the complete Border region and, also in conjunction with the EC, a study conducted by the NorthEastern Regional Development Organisation. If all the money spent on those studies could be spent now on the development of the canal at least a few of the sluices would be in operation. Studies are fine but they must be followed up in terms of development.

The employment schemes and various other schemes could be used to great advantage in the development of our waterways. For instance, they could be availed of to have scrub and other growth removed from the canals. Local authorities in whose areas the canals are located should avail of the opportunity of these schemes to employ young people to carry out such work. I welcome the changeover but I trust that the development of the canals will go ahead. I trust, too that the Government and Bord Fáilte will not demolish the Midland Regional Tourism Organisation and divide up the lakeland area.

I join with other Deputies in welcoming the Bill. I commend the Government on their initiative in bringing the Bill first to the other House. This illustrates their anxiety to have the Bill passed through both Houses as quickly as possible and thereby to pass on to the Office of Public works responsibility for the management of the Royal and Grand Canals.

I welcome the Bill particularly in the sense that it provides an opportunity for the development of a greater link between Dublin and the area east of the Shannon. I am not very familiar with the midland areas but I have seen the canal through Kildare and Offaly and I have noticed that outside the urban areas our waterways have been fairly well preserved. Work can be got under way quickly to provide suitable amenities for the type of leisure cruisers which are found in large numbers on the continent. However, I would be concerned in regard to any question of an Office of Public Works engineering study because the work could be undertaken in conjunction with such notable bodies as the engineering school in UCD or in some of the other universities. There is a need to expedite both survey and study. The involvement of students and staff in the development of this type of transport system for the late eighties is most desirable.

As regards the Shannon waterway, from time to time Clare County Council have had complaints about pollution of Lough Derg. Some of this has been attributed to unlimited dumping of waste from pleasure cruisers on the lake. It was horrifying to hear that pollution and weeds had spread from Portumna past Mountshannon. The Office of Public Works should draw up a memorandum of controls and have the areas policed. There has been a great growth in traffic on the Shannon and continentals are most interested in this kind of activity. The developments on the Shannon at Mountshannon, Whitegate and Dromineer have shown that they really appreciate the pleasure of sailing and cruising on the lakes and waterways. In former days tourists spent many a night at halting places along the canals and many villages grew up around them.

A great deal of work will have to be done to get all the interested bodies together and it will take more than just a survey carried out by OPW or an engineering study carried out by the Department of Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism. As members of local authorities we are all aware of the way in which OPW rate different surveys. They have a system of examination and I would not be confident that this would enhance the promotion of the canals unless it is given top priority. I take it from the way in which the Bill was introduced that it is intended to accord it such priority. Many jobs could be created through using the canals for boating, fishing and so on. I hope the canals will be brought back to their former glory.

The Bill also deals with controls of fish stocks. I understand this matter was fully debated in the Seanad. We should be able to keep our waterways clean. We should provide for the commercial development of the canals. It would be advantageous if heavy goods such as coal could be transported on the waterways. For example, it would be possible to bring coal from Moneypoint by barge to the midlands. It would also save money which is currently used to maintain county and national roads. The roads are in a bad state of repair as a result of heavily laden lorries transporting goods from one county to another. The New Ross boatyard which concentrated on building barges might be given a new lease of life. The receiver there sold five or six barges and they could be used on the waterways. If the canals are fully utilised there will be a new awareness of their value which will be of long term benefit to the country.

I wish to thank the many Deputies who contributed to the debate. I do so genuinely and sincerely and not for the routine reason. This has been an exceptional debate in many respects. I have long experience of listening to Dáil debates as a reporter and not as a participant. I recall very few debates which had the same type of character as this one. I am not seeking to elevate its importance although it is important in that a great national asset is being handed over from one section to another where we hope it will grow in prosperity.

The character of the debate stemmed from the deep personal interest all the speakers had in the subject and their love of the canals and waterways. We had several examples today and in the earlier debate where the speakers were moved to flights of poetry in addition to many Deputies introducing very apt quotations. It has been a great experience. I recall a previous debate on the canals. The contribution I always treasure as one of the most beautiful I heard was by Deputy James Dillon perhaps from here as Minister for Agriculture or on the other side as Leader of the Opposition. He gave a wonderfully graphic description of the British angler catching a fish along the canal here, having his photograph taken, patting the fish on the head and throwing it back, only to return the following week and do the same thing until they reached first name acquaintanceship.

This debate has been a great pleasure for me in my official capacity as Minister of State at the Department of Communications, but also in my other capacity as Minister of State with responsibility for Arts, Culture and Heritage. It is rather unusual that the sponsoring Department, if you like, are handing over the authority for the canals which are the subject of this debate. I am very pleased, therefore, at the contribution made by my colleague, Deputy Joe Bermingham, who will be taking responsibility. The Commissioners of Public Works and the Minister will carefully consider all the very useful suggestions made by the Deputies for the improvement and protection of the Grand and Royal Canals as public amenities.

Another very significant thing about the debate was the number of very substantial and imaginative suggestions made as to what might be done in the future administration of the canals by the Office of Public Works. The Minister has given a great personal commitment, in addition to committing the Office of Public Works to the future development of the canals.

As I said on Second Stage, this Bill heralds a new and exciting era for the Grand and Royal Canals. They have been with us now for about 200 years and the sooner this era begins the better. Therefore, early enactment of the Bill would be appreciated.

A point was raised by Deputies Wilson, O'Rourke, Manning and Prendergast which does not deal directly with the canals but with the records, in which all the speakers expressed considerable interest. I agree wholeheartedly with their preservation. We have had unbroken continuity of ownership of the canals for 200 years. This has resulted in very extensive volumes of records relating to the canals and the surrounding areas. These could be classified, to a certain extent, as a national asset, giving a major insight into social and commercial life of the time. In my capacity as Minister of State with responsibility for Arts and Culture I have responsibility for these and for the National Archives Bill at present before Seanad Éireann. This provides for the transfer to a new National Archives of departmental and other records not normally required for administrative purposes and for the making available of such records for public inspection. Already, we have got to work as far as the canals are concerned. A preliminary survey by the Keeper of the State Papers of the canal records in the care of CIE has confirmed their enormous value. A more detailed survey is now in progress.

Where are these records?

They are in a variety of locations. We do not want just to collect them, deposit them somewhere and have to take them back and deposit them in the National Archives or whatever is the arrangement made for them. That is one of the reasons for making the present study. The complete minutes of both canal companies are in existence and title documents, maps, plans of the canals and files relating to their management. Some of these documents will continue to be used on an on-going basis for administrative purposes. As I indicated previously, I propose to discuss with CIE and the Commissioners of Public Works in due course how best the canal records can be preserved for the nation. The results of the study has revealed how valuable these records are.

Deputy Durkan spoke about the poor condition of certain by-roads adjoining the Grand Canal in County Kildare. He urged that they be maintained. Deputy Power also mentioned this matter. However, it is important to point out, as did the Minister of State in charge of the Office of Public Works, that such roads should not be used or developed in any way which would endanger the canal bank. That is the key consideration. The public amenity value of the canal must be safeguarded. Notwithstanding that, it is up to the relevant local authority to get together with the Office of Public Works to see what needs to be done in particular areas and to arrange for action which is mutually beneficial. Obviously, the Office of Public Works should not encroach on matters within the responsibility of the relevant local authority. What are needed here are co-operation and goodwill. We heard from the Minister, Deputy Bermingham, a guarantee that co-operation and goodwill will be available from the Office of Public Works. Therefore, with the local authorities and the local communities, we shall have no great difficulty in solving problems which will arise. Obviously, the residents need to have proper road facilities leading to their accommodation.

Deputies Wilson, O'Rourke, McEllistrim and, later on, Deputy Power — and, indeed, most Deputies — referred to the question of the canal staff and their transfer. I have no reason to believe that the canal staff are unhappy with section 3(2) inserted by Seanad Éireann. Deputy Bermingham, the Minister with responsibility in that area, said that considerable progress has already been made.

Are the negotiations still going on?

They are going on day and night. It was mentioned, perhaps by the Deputy and certainly by Deputy Power about the compensation provision in the Bill for such things as free travel facilities which were available when the employees worked for CIE. It is recognised that CIE benefits could not be availed of out of CIE employment. That has been recognised by the staff themselves and their representatives suggested a compensation provision. There will be no difficulties there.

Is that the significance of the word "aggregate" referred to?

All the various pluses and minuses will be taken into account. No-one will be worse off arising from the transfer. It will be impossible to offer free travel facilities to people working outside CIE. One would not know where it would end if that attitude were taken. There is a provision for compensation, not continuance of the facility that existed previously.

Deputy Skelly urged that stiff penalties be imposed on persons throwing rubbish into the canals. Such penalties already exist under the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act, 1977, and the Litter Act, 1982. Enforcement of these Acts is hardly adequate, given the obvious amount of pollution abounding. The Canals Bill provides similar penalites for breaches of the by-laws which the Commissioner of Public Works will be making under section 7 of the Bill which regulates boating on the canals and to protect them from damage by pollution and so on. Maximum penalties imposed in the Bill are £1,000 and/or six months' imprisonment on summary conviction, or £5,000 plus £500 a day for the continuing of the infringement and/or two years' imprisonment on conviction on indictment.

I have no doubt that the Commissioners of Public Works will take appropriate action against polluters and others who threaten the public amenity value of the canals. There must, of course, be a clear response from all the local communities in areas through which the canals flow, in order to safeguard them as a public amentiy. No-one should pollute or in any other way damage the canals. That is the key to it. If the local communities through whose areas the canals flow have pride in their canals, as they have already demonstrated they have, then we will not have pollution. If they have not that pride, then, irrespective of the penalties, it will be extraordinarly difficult to get rid of pollution. A lot depends on the communities who live near the banks of the canals. However, what we have heard in this debate of what has been done in local communities argurs extremely well for the care they will take when an effort is made by the Office of Public Works to beautify the canals.

Deputy Manning asked about the possibility of using the canals for the transport of goods. I realise one can never rule out that possibility. Deputy Carey mentioned earlier the possibility of using the Shannon Navigation for the transport of coal from Moneypoint. This is an intriguing idea. Although one cannot rule it out, I think the days of canals as major transport arteries are over. It is very labour intensive, requiring the opening and closing of locks and the loading and unloading of goods to the various businesses and warehouses. Transport by lorries has proved much more cost effective. The Grand Canal Company tried to make up their own loss of traffic on the Grand Canal by having a lorry service but it was too late to compensate for the loss and they never really got into that business.

So far as the use of the canals is concerned, we must look elsewhere. There are many uses such as pleasure boating, fishing, swimming and so on. The only limitation is that of our own imagination as to what can be done. Very good suggestions were put forward today and I have no doubt they will be examined by the Office of Public Works. Many could be revenue-generating rather than costing a lot of money.

The purpose of this Bill is to secure the future of the Grand Canal and the Royal Canal as an amenity for the benefit of the public. Someone in the debate spoke of the danger of this Bill becoming merely a paper transaction that would not be worked on once the hand-over had taken place. On this occasion it is somewhat different. We are transferring responsibility from CIE to the Office of Public Works. The canals will be in good hands. It is no good in saying the whole canal system will be tackled immediately. That kind of money is not readily available at this moment——

The Minister of State has the Minister for Finance at his side.

——even though large stretches of the Grand Canal and some of the Royal Canal pass through the Kildare constituency.

Even polymaths have room for a bit more.

It will not all happen at once. The fact that basically it is a good cause in which everyone is interested guarantees that in due course money will be made available. The first obligation of the Office of Public Works will be to inspect the canals to see what repair and preservation work has to be done. It is my view that the canals are being handed over to very caring hands. The commissioners will have imposed on them the obligation to maintain the canals for the enjoyment and recreation of the public, whether it be for navigation, fishing or other leisure pursuits. The Bill has been welcomed in this House, in the Seanad and by the public and I look forward to the support of the House in securing the early enactment of this measure.

It is all a question of co-operation. We will get the full benefit of this major asset if there is co-operation on the part of all. Deputy Wilson earlier spoke about the Ballyconnell Canal and he spoke of the great merit in linking the Barrow Navigation with Lough Erne. That would also have the other, not inconsequential, benefit of linking Deputy Wilson's constituency with my constituency. Like the Deputy, I was very pleased to hear the Minister of State, Deputy Bermingham, say that by mid-1986 we will have the definitive engineering report on this project——

It is a case of "Live canal and you will get banks".

All sides of this House would be keen to see that waterway properly navigable once again. I have a great interest in this matter, as has Deputy Wilson. I thank all the Deputies for their contribution and I again commend the Bill.

Will the Minister of State say who owns the Ballyconnell-Ballinamore Canal?

I understand it is under the aegis of the Office of Public Works at the moment.

That is not the same thing as legal ownership.

Unfortunately, I did not follow that up as I had intended in order to find out who owns it. I was told it was under the aegis of the Office of Public Works.

Perhaps the Minister of State would drop me a line when he finds out.

Considering the remarks of Deputy Bermingham, it appears that that aegis is very strong.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

On Tuesday, 28 May 1985, subject to agreement of the Whips.

Yes, subject to agreement of the Whips.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 28 May 1985.
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