asked the Minister for Justice the number of car thefts (a) nationally and (b) within the Dublin Metropolitan area in the years 1980 and 1983; and the action he intends taking in this regard.
13.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Car Thefts.
12.
asked the Minister for Justice the number of car thefts in the Cork city area in the years 1980 and 1984; and the action he intends to take in this matter.
14.
asked the Minister for Justice the plans he has to combat the problem of joyriders.
15.
asked the Minister for Justice if, in view of the imminent possibility of the lynching of car thieves, he considers that emergency action by the Government is now necessary to take these car thieves off our streets; if he considers that the possibility outlined above is likely to take place; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
16.
asked the Minister for Justice the number of arrests of joyriders that have been made by the Garda; the number of those joyriders who, when let out on bail, have committed further offences; and if he will give as detailed a reply as possible in order that the public may be made aware that the Garda are doing the very best that they can in such matters.
17.
asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware of the number of car thefts and Garda car rammings in the Blackrock, Dún Laoghaire, Dundrum and Rathmines areas of the south county of the city of Dublin; and the action, if any, he intends taking in the matter.
(Limerick East): A Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 to 17, inclusive, together.
It is assumed that Questions Nos. 12 to 17 are intended to include all cars taken without the owners' consent, even though in most cases this is not stealing in the legal sense.
The total number of larcenies of cars in the whole country in 1980 was 515 of which 433 occured in the Dublin Metropolitan Area and 13 in Cork city. The corresponding figures for 1983 were 1,094, 1,002 and five respectively. Statistics for 1984 are not yet available.
The total number of unauthorised takings of mechanically propelled vehicles — a breakdown of the number of cars included in the figures for unauthorised takings of motor vehicles is not available — in the whole country in 1980 was 21,005, of which 16,172 occured in the Dublin Metropolitan Area and 1,428 in Cork city. The corresponding figures for 1983 were 19,484, 15,071 and 863 respectively. In all cases classified as "unauthorised takings" the vehicles involved were recovered.
I have already given details in a number of public statements of the measures being taken to curb this problem. I will outline them briefly again. A special Garda unit has been operating in the Dublin Metropolitan Area since 15 January last, with the sole objective of apprehending and deterring so-called joyriders. This unit has been very successful in that some 700 persons have been arrested and charged with the unauthorised taking of motor vehicles or similar offences. Some 322 persons are actually in prison serving sentences for such offences. Additional custodial accommodation has been provided at Spike Island and at Arbour Hill and Cork prison to ensure that car thieves and other criminals will serve the full sentences imposed on them by the courts.
As regards the number of persons who have committed further offences when on bail, the position is that precise figures for the full period since 1 January 1985 are not available but of the 642 persons who were arrested for the unauthorised taking of motor vehicles and related offences between 15 January 1985 and 18 April 1985 — a period of some 13 weeks — about 20 per cent committed similar offences while on bail. In this regard I have had discussions with the President of the District Court about the possibility of earlier hearings for persons involved in these offences, so that they will spend a shorter time on bail. There is also provision in the Criminal Justice Act, 1984, for the imposition of consecutive sentences for offences committed while on bail.
The number of "unauthorised takings" both in Dublin and in the country as a whole has now been significantly reduced due to the measures that have been taken and I expect a continuing improvement in this matter. I think that there is now widespread and increasing recognition that the measures taken by the Garda have brought the problem under control and, accordingly, I do not think that the circumstances envisaged by Deputy Briscoe are likely to arise.
I thank the Minister for his very comprehensive reply which is extremely helpful. However, from the figures the Minister has given it appears that the number of unauthorised taking of cars is about 20,000 per annum over a period. In view of that level of car theft, by no stretch of the imagination can one claim that the matter is under control or even that substantial progress is being made. I assert that the matter is not under control when that number of cars is stolen every year.
(Limerick East): The latest information available to me is that the number of vehicles taken in the DMA last month was 32 per cent down on the figure for the same month last year. For the country as a whole there was a 20 per cent reduction in the number of vehicles taken in the first four months of this year as compared with the same months last year but obviously it is a matter that requires continuous attention.
Has the Minister specific information on the figures for the Cork region in recent months as compared with last year? He supplied them for the Dublin area. Secondly, even though the Minister has told the House the steps his Department have taken to curb this modern misdemeanour, will he agree there is a major responsibility on car manufactures to provide more sophisticated electronic anti-theft devices? Have his Department had negotiations with car manufacturers regarding the installation of more sophisticated anti-theft devices that could be linked to the ignition?
(Limerick East): I have not got any more statistical information than I have already given about the situation in Cork. The Garda state there has been a considerable decrease in the unauthorised taking of vehicles in Cork city in recent years. With regard to the responsibility of motor manufacturers, what the Deputy has said is true. I should like to see more sophisticated anti-theft devices installed in cars. When we are in an age where cash dispensing machines outside banks can be activated by a plastic card, it cannot be beyond the expertise of car manufacturers to provide a simple but sophisticated anti-theft device.
Certainly the Garda have been doing an excellent job in this area of crime prevention. However, will the Minister not agree that we must have a system of imprisonment whereby joyriders and car thieves will serve their full prison sentences? Can he assure the House that it is his intention to make sure that those convicted in our courts on these very serious charges will have to serve their sentences and that accommodation will be provided to ensure that they do so?
(Limerick East): I have dealt with the question of accommodation on previous occasions. Up to last Friday and the three weeks prior to that we were accommodating 123 more people than we were in the previous weeks. I have already given assurances that people who steal cars will serve their full sentences. The Deputy probably has in mind publicity over the weekend which suggested that somebody who was serving a sentence for car stealing had been released prematurely. That is so. The case as presented to me was that the man was serving a sentence for the larceny of £14 worth of goods. The fact that he had also been convicted for car stealing was not presented to me. He was let out on a weekly release that was renewable but his release is not being renewed for the coming week. He will be back in prison tonight.
I did not have that particular incident in mind but now that the Minister has mentioned it, I wish to ask a question. All I know about the case is what I read in the newspapers at the weekend. It was implied in the newspaper reports that the case was misrepresented to the Minister by the Garda Síochána and the Minister in his statement now has confirmed this. However, there is other information that this is not so and that the Garda Síochána were opposed to the release of this prisoner. I do not have the background information and I had not intended to raise the matter but now that the Minister has brought the matter up it is important for the public that we clarify it. I want the Minister to confirm that no request came from his Department for the release of this prisoner.
(Limerick East): That is correct. No request came from my Department. The request came from a member of the Garda Síochána who deals with these matters. It was presented as the case of a person who was in jail serving a sentence for the larceny of £14 worth of goods. No personal approach was made to me whatever. I dealt with it in a routine way. I inquired if there was any question of cars being involved and I was told there was not. That was the information presented to me. As I have said, the man in question is going back into prison because the decision was made on the basis of incorrect information. I am not implying anything. I think the Garda acted absolutely bonafide and that a genuine mistake was made.
The Minister in his reply stated that he and his Department were misled by the Garda Síochána in relation to the presentation of the case of the Department. That is a very serious and disturbing allegation to make in the House. If that is so, I want to know what action has been taken in relation to it.
(Limerick East): I made no allegation whatever. I think somebody made a mistake in providing the information to my Department. I made a decision on the basis of information that was not complete and when the complete information was brought to my attention I acted as I have outlined. I am inquiring into the circumstances of how the mistake occured but initial inquiries indicate that it was a genuine mistake and that there is not wider issue arising.
Will the Minister inform the House how the circumstances of the case first came to his notice as Minister for Justice?
(Limerick East): The circumstances of the case came to my notice as Minister for Justice in the normal way. A file was presented to me by officials of my Department with a recommendation to release what appeared to be a petty offender for two reasons. First, there was a likelihood of the man being rehabilitated because if he got out of prison quickly he could return to his former employment — his employers had suggested this. Secondly, it was on the basis that we still have overcrowded prisons. We let out petty offenders if they are outside the categories I indicated. As the Deputy knows, car stealing is one of the restricted categories. Subsequently the fact that a mistake was made came to my attention when a press query came to my Department on Thursday or Friday last. I checked the situation and found that the facts were not as presented.
The Minister is saying to the House that the submission to his Department and the file that was forwarded to him from the Garda division in Limerick referred to certain minor charges and not to the more serious charge of car stealing. I put it to the Minister that this must constitute a serious irregularity, that the Minister was seriously misled in relation to that incident. Again I want to know what action he proposes taking in that regard.
(Limerick East): I have initiated inquiries — as I have outlined — and I am awaiting a report on the matter. On the information available to me so far, on the initial inquiry, I do not think there was any mala fide on anybody's behalf. It was a situation of somebody making a genuine mistake who was under pressure of a lot of work at that time. The information was provided by telephone, not by forwarding a file.
Would the Minister finally confirm to the Houses that there was no question of any approach having been made to the Garda authorities either by himself or any member of the staff of his Department in relation to the release of this prisoner?
(Limerick East): I can confirm that absolutely. The contact came in the opposite direction.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.