One might be forgiven for thinking, on the basis of the contributions from the Opposition, that we were living in a world of fantasy because they are both agreeing and disagreeing at the same time with what we are doing. They might at least make up their minds as to whether they are for or against this Bill.
As a Member of the House I wish to express my appreciation to the Minister for his endeavours, his commitment, his hard work and his expertise in this whole area of trying to provide a proper climate for job creating. The Opposition have said that the NDC may have been the brainchild of Labour but I do not necessarily agree with that view because Fine Gael in their policies have always promoted something on the lines of the NDC. The corporation has taken the form as outlined in the Bill. I would remind Fianna Fáil that Fine Gael have been positive always in their approach to job creation. In that area it has been a pleasure to work with Labour and to bring forward a development that can work in the best interests of the community.
The Minister has put a lot of work into various industrial policies — White Papers and so on — and out of all that is born this legislation. At the outset, the Minister said that the purpose of the Bill is to establish a National Development Corporation and he went on to say that it was an integral part of Government strategy to try to overcome the malaise of what we inherited on coming into Government. The Opposition would be well advised to read the Minister's statement and to read the Bill, though obviously some of them have done so. It has been a pleasure during the past couple of years to listen to the positive approach adopted by some members of that party in regard to trying to solve our problems. However, the main Opposition speaker on this legislation, Deputy Lyons, referred, by way of his main criticism, to the various closures, liquidations and receiverships of companies. He did not pose the question as to how much of that problem was caused by the policies pursued by Fianna Fáil from 1977 to 1981. It was stated in the House last evening when we were talking about our foreign debt that the figure in that regard has increased from £800 million in 1977 to £8,000 million today. Most of that increase was caused by the extravaganzas of the Government who were in power from 1977 to 1981 and who to a large extent were corrupt. I appreciate that this has been said time and again but the sooner it sinks into the minds of the people, the sooner we may be able to move forward and try to create a climate that will help solve some of the employment problems of our young people.
The Bill before us is laying the statutory basis for what exists already in non-statutory form. The Opposition have referred to similar type structures for which they were responsible and say that what we are establishing will serve the same purpose. That may be so but we are now providing the statutory base.
The second very important point made by the Minister was that businesses, both new and old, are starved of investment funds in the form of share capital and that they must rely to an unhealthy extent on money borrowed from banks. We all know what has happened. The farming industry particularly recognise the damage that has been done to their inventiveness and their commitment to increase productivity on the land as a result of the level of borrowing they were pushed into and the subsequent problem of the variations in interest rates. If we had had a corporation of the kind we are setting up, they could have invested on a share basis, on an equity basis, in farming. If that had been the case we might not now have the difficulties that have arisen. On these two points made by the Minister I would say merely that the Bill before us is something new. It is not like anything we have had already. It is well worth while. In the various sections the Minister has included a variety of safeguards to ensure that the corporation will realise the purpose for which they are intended.
The NDC idea is innovative. The corporation will have a wide remit in terms of investment. There are many industries crying out for additional investment for expansion purposes. Market problems may leave some companies in much difficulty for a certain length of time and because of the high level of bank interest rates there is no respite for them. The NDC investment fund should to some extent assist in that area.
We all recognise that technology is changing and that the technology of today will be obsolete ten years from now. Consequently there is a continuous need for innovation, change and investment by way of trying to keep abreast of what the market place is demanding and of ascertaining the main areas of consumption. Only a fund of the kind we are talking of in this instance can be of assistance in this area. Of course there will be losses but we have invested heavily in job creation in the past number of years. Inordinate amounts of taxpayers' money have been invested in trying to create jobs but despite that there are 230,000 people unemployed. That problem has not arisen because of a wish on the part of any Government that that would be the case. Rather it has arisen because of policies pursued by different Governments though there are other factors involved also. I would not see great value in the NDC providing the necessary funding for a whole variety of industry but the Minister has provided in the Bill for limiting the level of equity that can be invested in any company. Therefore, the £300 million should find its way round a large section of industry.
We do not have a venture capital market, a fact to which the Minister has drawn attention though he has been involved to a large extent with outside financial agencies in trying to set up that sort of market. He drew attention to this in his speech. He sees the need for setting up a venture capital market here which can and will assist industry. Every Deputy would have to agree with that.
The National Development Agency will become the main State vehicle for investment in industry. It can, and will, promote indigenous industries. A great deal of attention is drawn to the development of indigenous resources, whether in agriculture, fisheries or forestry, but people are not prepared to invest in these areas because of the high risks involved. The State must become involved in risk taking, even if there are losses. Unless we do something to redress the chronic unemployment situation, we will be going down the same slippery slope.
The Opposition have been severely critical of the need for this corporation. Fianna Fáil in Opposition strongly opposed the setting up of the IDA. We all recognise the great contribution the IDA have made to the Irish way of life since 1952. At that time Fianna Fáil made statements like "putting the cart before the horse" or "a cart with no wheels" when we were setting up the IDA, and they are making similar objections to this Bill. They have tried to split the relationship between Fine Gael and Labour. A number of them said this Bill was the result of Labour ideology being imposed on Fine Gael. I do not accept that and I never have accepted it. In my view Fine Gael and Labour have always worked very harmoniously together in Government, and for the good of this country. I am, and always have been, a strong Coalitionist. I can state categorically that all Coalition investments in the promotion of industry have been worth while and there have not been any abuses.
There may be a measure of conflict between the IDA and the NDC but all these difficulties can be ironed out. They are responsible for different areas. The IDA are a grant aiding authority and the NDC will be an equity capital venture agency who can make loans, but they will be limited. I hope Fianna Fáil Deputies who have yet to contribute will take note of these differences. These two agencies can combine their resources. The IDA have built up a very strong organisation nationwide and the NDC will be able to become part of that structure.
The biggest difficulty facing industry is the variation in markets and because of that there must be continuous monitoring of the markets to see where there is a demand for new products. We have never invested to any great extent in that area, although Córas Tráchtála Teoranta and other State agencies have done a very good job in this area. This new agency will have the remit to develop in the service area. In America they are moving back towards the smaller industrial units, many of whom cannot function because of capital difficulties and shortfalls. This organisation can and will assist in that area. I do not see why so much alarm is being generated, why it is being said that this is another white elephant which will mean pouring taxpayers' money down the drain. I do not believe that will happen. From the point of view of small industries, this agency can be of considerable benefit in creating more jobs.
The multinationals and the Irish industrial whiz kids moved in to my area, but they were not able to make a success of the Waterford Iron Foundry. There were no jobs available until a group of small businessmen moved in. Now, 12 months later, they are employing 250 or 260 people. They are extending and expanding their business and they are providing a commodity for the home market which up to now had been imported. It is this type of company which the agency must assist. The corporation has a very wide scope. It can extend to almost every area. I hope it will be of particular interest to people who want to set up their own businesses and that it will encourage them to manufacture products which at present are being dumped on our markets. This would be of considerable benefit to the economy.
Because of the difficulties in this country over the last ten or 15 years our tourist industry has been very adversely affected. I recommend that the NDC provide funds for that industry because it has great potential for reducing the numbers on our live register.
The Minister referred to limiting the level of investment to any company. It is only right and proper that that should be the case. If the figure goes beyond £1 million there must be consultation with the Minister. That safeguard has been built into the Bill. The National Enterprise Agency was set up by the Opposition. It has some merit, and was inspired by the need for that type of agency. We do not condemn the Opposition for setting up the National Development Agency but it has not the same statutory basis or statutory responsibility as the National Development Corporation and it is not answerable in the same way. The people who will man the NDC will, I am sure, be able people just as are the people in the IDA. The Minister in setting up the board of this corporation will not bring in political hacks but people who have proved themselves to be competent in the area of industry, commerce and trade. We can monitor the performance of those people and we can be sure that the National Development Corporation has a bright future. It will be of considerable value as has been the IDA to the development of industry.
People get involved in companies to make a profit. That is the object of investment. Over the last number of years there has been a lack of commitment to investment in industry because there are more profitable investments in other areas particularly in insurance companies which control a fair share of savings. Insurance companies have invested in property markets which are non-productive. They sold policies which because of high inflation were giving a turnover at 20 per cent increase in the year, and sometimes people realised an increase as high as 50 per cent in any one year. These companies did not invest in jobs and in wealth creation areas such as industry. We must try to get people to save money in more productive areas so as to generate jobs and wealth. Under last year's budget a scheme was brought in by the Minister to allow a clawback for people who invested in industry. That is successful and is increasing in momentum. The Minister for Finance and the Minister in the House are to be complimented for that idea. Anything that will shift investment from the traditional safe gilt edge investments into investments that will produce jobs must be made worth while.
The National Development Corporation can sell off its investments if the company is doing well. The Minister should take care to ensure that extreme caution is exercised here. It is easy to get somebody interested in something which has been built up by State investment, which is doing well and making money. Such companies can be sold off and people can draw the profit from them. It would be like selling off State forests. The State has built up a considerable resource in State forests and nobody wants them to be sold off to private enterprise so that somebody can make a quick profit.