asked the Minister for Defence the reasons women are not being admitted to either the Army or the Naval Services; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
6.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Women in Defence Forces.
4.
asked the Minister for Defence the number of female members, of the Naval Service; if any measures are planned to increase female membership of the Naval Service; and if he will ensure that accommodation facilities on board Naval vessels will be made adequate for future recruitment of female members.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 6 together.
The strength of the Permanent Defence Force is determined from time to time in the light of military requirements and does not differentiate between male and female members. Because of the non-combatant role of female personnel, enlistment for general service has had to be confined to male personnel in recent times.
None of the female personnel in the Permanent Defence Force is attached to the Naval Service as it is inappropriate for non-combatants to be assigned for sea service. Naval Service vessels are not constructed with accommodation facilities solely for use of females and the provision of such accommodation would involve major structural alterations.
Has the Minister any proposal for the inclusion of female personnel in either the Army or the Naval Service in the coming year?
No.
Has the Minister received any representations from his colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Fennell, regarding the inclusion of women in either the Naval Service or the Army?
Yes.
What type of request did the Minister receive from the Minister of State, and what was his response?
Her request was along the lines of the questions asked here and my answers were in line with my answers here.
There has been no change?
No.
How can the Minister say that there is no differentiation in the recruitment of male and female members when it is the policy of the Naval Service not to recruit women?
It is not the policy of the Naval Service. The Naval Service is part of the Defence Forces; the Naval Service is not a separate entity of itself. The Deputy will note that it is the policy of the Defence Forces recruiting not to differentiate between male and female. It is not appropriate, or possible, to accommodate females within the Naval Service because of the nature and small size of the ships concerned.
My question asked if it was the intention of the Minister to ensure that accommodation facilities aboard Naval vessels would be made adequate for future recruitment of female members?
As I said in my reply, the provision of such accommodation would involve major structural alterations in small ships. It is not practical——
The Minister does not intend to do that.
No. The Deputy is not listening to my reply. He does not want to hear the logic of it. To make major structural alterations to small ships in order to accommodate what would have to be token female presence is not justified.
That is a matter of debate. The Minister says there are only small ships, but why not make the ships bigger? All I am asking is if it is the Minister's intention to ensure that in future accommodation facilities on board vessels, even when they are being constructed, will be made adequate for the future recruitment of female members.
I am sure the Deputy does not want to pursue the question of making the ships bigger because that would not be a practical proposition.
Who decides size?
When the plans are being prepared for the building of new ships that matter will be kept under review.
Will these plans make provision for accommodation for female members since it is policy to recruit males and females?
I cannot give a definitive answer because it depends on the size of ship for which the plans are being prepared. If we were building an aircraft carrier we would be able to accommodate females on a ship of that size, but that is very unlikely. It we build further ships they will almost certainly be the same size as our present fleet, and it would be extremely difficult to design into those ships accommodation for female personnel. As I indicated to the Deputy, I am sure the feminist movement would not want to be associated with what would be essentially an exercise in tokenism which is what it would be. We could not have accommodation for more than one or two females.
It is not a feminist issue. The Minister has stated there is no discrimination in recruitment. The question arises if there is discrimination in the accommodation?
I am calling question No. 5.