asked the Minister for Labour if he will consider making a secret ballot mandatory for positions on executives of trade unions when bringing legislation to the House on industrial relations reform.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers - Industrial Relations Reform.
28.
Trade unions in Ireland are not strangers either to secret membership ballots or to delegate conference votes by secret ballot. The proposals for reform of trade dispute law which were published recently do not suggest that provision for uniform mandatory secret ballots in elections for the executives of unions be enacted in civil law. No case for the introduction of a uniform statutory procedure has been made to me by trade union representatives.
The point I am trying to make is that on a number of occasions recently at union deputations and at senior levels in the trade union movement — not to name any because this business is current — it was pointed out that very small minority groups with minority views can create a great deal of disruption within the trade union movement and elections are carried on tiny minorities. While it may be a case of people organising their own branch meetings, the argument can be put forward that executives could by secret ballot try to obtain a better vote at their various branches. Frequently about 1 or 2 per cent of paid up membership of a branch elect the national executive. If that can be followed through to any other body it could be of great concern. People do not like to say too much about it but it is no secret that a number of unions have not perhaps been manipulated but have small groups within them of inordinate strength because of the present system of voting privately. This should be examined because it is very important that we have a strong, democratic movement representative of workers and workers' rights and not necessarily of any other rights. There is a case for the examination of trade union law with the whole process and means of organising trade unions being looked at.
That is hardly a question.
It should be looked at to see how executives can be elected more democratically than at present. The Minister knows that I was one of the people who was elected at a very early age through that system and I know exactly how to manipulate it. Mainly because of that I believe it is a false system. It is possible at the moment to be elected to one of the biggest executives on 1 per cent of the vote.
There is a fundamental principle in any democratic system, irrespective of what the organisation or institution may be, that in order to get a true reflection of opinion there should be the maximum valid poll possible. In so far as postal or secret ballots of all the membership in a branch or in an entire union for elected positions in the executive would enhance or bring that position about, I would support it. However, the trade unions are voluntary, free associations and they have a right within the framework of the law to regulate and organise their own affairs. That said, because the trade unions as established bodies receive, properly in my view, the recognition that they do from this and previous Governments and because they are an institutionalised part of the social partnership, it is incumbent upon them, as it is on every other section that participates in the democratic system, to ensure that democratic standards are maintained at the highest possible level.
I accept what the Minister is saying, but I am thinking of the last three or four months and the power of the trade union movement — which people like to see. Therefore, the Government may have to negotiate — I am concerned as much about Governments of the future as about the present Government — on behalf of the Irish people with groups who represent in theory millions of workers but in practice maybe only 1 or 2 per cent of those people, as happens at present. I am not afraid to say that at most of the branch meetings that take place on behalf of the major unions about 2 or 3 per cent are all who vote and if they get more than 5 per cent they are pleasantly surprised. The results thrown up by that are not a coincidence. You can look wherever you like, at the committee of the ICTU, the transport union or any of the unions——
That would be more appropriate on an Estimate. It is a long speech.
A very important review of the trade union movement is taking place at the moment and I welcome the Minister's undertaking to look at this. It is not just football clubs; it is a body who have certain weight and power with Governments and they should be seen to be democratic. At present they are not.
That concludes Question Time. Questions for oral answer which have not been reached will go for written answer unless a request is made that they be put in the next ballot.
Sir, will you leave the remaining ordinary questions over — not the priority ones?
In the ordinary way.