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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Mar 1986

Vol. 364 No. 8

National Development Corporation Bill, 1986: [From the Seanad].

Acting Chairman

Amendments Nos. 1 and 3 will be taken together by agreement.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 1:

Section 2: In page 4, subsection (1), lines 1 and 2,", Trade, Commerce and Tourism" deleted and "and Commerce" substituted.

This is merely a technical amendment necessitated by the change in title from Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism to Minister for Industry and Commerce. The change took effect on 19 February 1986 subsequent to the passage of the Bill through the Dáil.

I have no objection to the amendment. It is to enable a proper description to be put on the Department. I will not go into the famous or otherwise chopping and changing that went on two weeks ago when nobody knew whether they were coming or going. I am merely making that point in passing.

Amendment agreed to.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 2:

Section 22: In page 10, lines 38 and 39 deleted and in page 11, lines 1 to 42 deleted and the following substituted:

"22.—(1) Where a director of the Corporation is—

(a) nominated as a member of Seanad Éireann, or

(b) elected as a member of either House of the Oireachtas or of the Assembly of the European Communities, or

(c) regarded pursuant to section 15 (inserted by the European Assembly Elections Act, 1984) of the European Assembly Elections Act, 1977, as having been elected to such Assembly to fill a vacancy,

he shall thereupon cease to be a director of the Corporation.

(2) Where a person employed by the Corporation is—

(a) nominated as a member of Seanad Éireann, or

(b) elected as a member of either House of the Oireachtas or of the Assembly of the European Communities, or

(c) regarded pursuant to section 15 (inserted by the European Assembly Election Act, 1984) of the European Assembly Elections Act, 1977, as having been elected to such Assembly to fill a vacancy,

he shall thereupon stand seconded from employment by the Corporation and shall not be paid by, or be entitled to receive from, the Corporation any remuneration or allowances in respect of the period commencing on such nomination or election or when he is so regarded as having been elected, as the case may be, and ending when he ceases to be a member of either such House or such Assembly.

(3) A person who is for the time being entitled under the Standing Orders of either House of the Oireachtas to sit therein or who is a member of the Assembly of the European Communities shall, while he is so entitled or is such a member, be disqualified from becoming a director of the Corporation or from employment in any capacity by the Corporation.

Section 22 provided that the directorate of the corporation had to cease to be a directorate and employees had to stand redundant from employment by the corporation if they were (a) nominated as a member of Seanad Éireann, (b) nominated as a candidate for election to either House of the Oireachtas or to the Assembly of the European Communities, or (c) regarded pursuant to section 15, inserted by the European Assembly Act, 1984, of the European Assembly Elections Act, 1977, as having been elected to such Assembly to fill a vacancy.

On Committee Stage in the Seanad objections were raised by Senators on both sides of the House, including the Leader of the House, to the provision regarding nomination as a candidate for election to the Seanad. In the current Seanad electoral legislation a person can be so nominated without his or her consent and cannot then withdraw his or her candidacy. As a result, valuable persons might be lost to statutory bodies because of nomination for election and such persons might not succeed in being elected.

A peculiar quirk which could also arise is that if some Senators wished to get rid of the chief executive of a State body, four of them could come together and nominate him for the Seanad and he would have to cease to be a chief executive. I am sure that was never intended to be the position in legislation and it has never actually happened in practice, but it could happen. I agree with the Senators that this is an undesirable situation so I have decided to amend section 22. The amendment should also provide protection for persons nominated for election to Dáil Éireann or the European Assembly.

The amendment provides that persons would have to be actually elected to either of the assemblies before giving up their position as chief executive. On the advice of the parliamentary draftsman the original section 22 has been deleted and a revised section 22 has been substituted. The kernel of the amendment is that directors and staff of the NDC will be required to give up their directorship of the corporation or stand seconded from their employment by the corporation only on their election to either House of the Oireachtas or to the Assembly of the European Communities. The provisions contained in the original section in regard to nomination as a member of Seanad Éireann or entitlement to sit in the European Parliament by virtue of being on a replacement panel of that Parliament have also been incorporated into the section as amended.

This shows the result of the debate in the Seanad where the nomination of persons in more relevant than it is in this House as all representatives must be elected to Dáil Éireann. Will this amendment seep through to affect all semi-State companies and State bodies? I do not object to this amendment. Both elected members and nominated members of either House of the Oireachtas should be protected by this amendment, so I have no objection to it. Is the NDC a semi-State body, or a State organisation? We can go into that at another time. I do not have an objection to this technical change.

The NDC is a corporation established by statute. I am grateful to Deputy Lyons for accepting the amendment. I remember when the National Council for Education Awards Bill was going through the House I suggested a similar amendment and Deputy Wilson who was then Minister for Education did not accept it. This amendment, however, is a move in the right direction. Eminent people who are nominated to fight an election to the Seanad should not be barred from being a director or have to stand seconded from their employment. This recent development has been incorporated in the Dentists Bill, the Nurses Bill and the Combat Poverty Bill which recently went through the Houses of the Oireachtas. This is a relative innovation——

What is innovative about it? The Minister mentioned my name and I am puzzled.

Not in anger.

What change is the Minister making?

Originally if one was nominated as a candidate for election to the Seanad one was barred from being a director or one would stand seconded. We are not now sitting on that until one is actually elected.

That should always have been the case.

We agree in the House, but Parliament moves slowly. The Senators have taken quite a strong stand on this matter.

They had a vested interest, did they not?

I was pleased to accede to their demands. I hope this will become standard legislation. A person nominated as a candidate should not be prevented from being a director of a State body and should not have to stand seconded. A most peculiar situation would be that a substitute of the European Parliament, for instance, would have to stand down as a director of a State body or stand seconded for the life of the European Parliament, which would be most undesirable.

Especially if one is promoted to being an accountant in the European Parliament.

It is not my wish to say anything of a party political nature. The amendment is welcomed and accepted on both sides of the House and it is being made in the correct spirit.

Is the amendment agreed?

In relation to people being seconded or nominated, we often wonder as to the political stance taken by members of boards. When people are nominated by parties in future you will definitely know their political stance.

Any Taoiseach, particularly Taoisigh on this side of the House——

Every Taoiseach sits on that side of the House.

—— would take great care to nominate people of a high calibre who would be of value to the Seanad. That has always been the practice when my party have been in Government.

I was not merely referring to the Taoiseach's nomination of 11 Senators. I do not know where the Minister got that idea. I referred to appointed members of boards. What we are saying is that people nominated for election need not necessarily resign their positions on the board.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment No. 3 has been discussed already.

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 3:

Title: In page 3, lines 6 and 7, ", TRADE, COMMERCE AND TOURISM" deleted and "AND COMMERCE" substituted.

Amendment agreed to
Amendments reported and agreed to.

I thank Deputies for their acceptance of the amendments. This is a historic piece of legislation but unfortunately it was opposed in both Houses by Fianna Fáil.

We will give every encouragement to the NDC, whatever will come out of it.

The radical opposition of Fianna Fáil to the Bill has been very well noted by the public.

They will see eventually who was correct and who was incorrect.

Fianna Fáil also opposed the establishment of the Industrial Development Authority.

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