Before Question Time I was speaking about the gloom and doom to which a Fianna Fáil speaker referred and the very substantial progress which has been made in regard to interest rates and inflation which has been of tremendous benefit to the agricultural industry.
Charges for ACOT services may be beneficial to the whole agricultural scene as they will make the service more selective in some respects. At present agricultural services are available to one and all free of charge. It is the easiest thing in the world to telephone the agricultural officer, the ACOT adviser and so on and relate your problem. The adviser then comes out and may spend a half day listening to your troubles, but very often the farmer does not heed what he says and ignores his advice. There will be a greater appreciation and acknowledgement of the ACOT officers as a consequence of this charge.
There are one or two things, however, which the Minister should consider. He said farmers who cannot afford to pay will not be expected to do so and that is acceptable. In the new farm grant scheme announced recently a special section deals with young farmers and their problems. There are concessions for certain categories and a special grant of £5,500 is available to young farmers when they take over a farm and an added £5,500 over a five year period. The Minister should consider exempting people who qualify under that scheme from the ACOT charges. I accept that it would be only a nominal benefit to those farmers, but it would be a further acknowledgement by the Minister of the part they will play in the years ahead.
There seems to be a tremendous demand for agricultural and financial consultants by farmers. When one realises that the charges for these services are very substantial, perhaps £500 or so up to £2,000 per annum, one must ask where the ACOT service has gone wrong. There is a question mark there. Some farmers are paying £2,000 for the very same service that is provided by ACOT free of charge.
I will be the first to accept that substantial improvements have taken place in ACOT over the past two or three years. Like Deputy Byrne who is chairman of Tipperary County Committee of Agriculture, I was chairman of Cork County Committee of Agriculture in the late seventies. At that time ACOT left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Decisions were made in County Cork about which the chairman was never consulted or informed. I am speaking about the general attitude of ACOT at that time. It does not now arise. There is a much greater two way exchange of views between committees of agriculture and ACOT. Some people would ask the question: what do we want committees of agriculture for anyway? They are now practically without power. Maybe the question could be asked: are they providing a benefit? I certainly have some reservations about whether or not they are of any benefit to the farming community. One could say they give an opportunity for people to express views, whatever they may be, on the agricultural scene. I am convinced that they are not the ideal. There should be a much more effective way of getting the views of farmers and politicians than the system which exists in the committees of agriculture.
The farm consultancy people who set up these offices to a fairly considerable degree across the country are charging considerable amounts of money. We must look at that area and see how better we can compete with those people who charge such considerable fees to farmers. The Minister and the Department should look at the proliferation of research and development bodies such as AFD, An Foras Talúntais, UCC and, to a lesser extent, ACOT. Should the Minister be saying to himself that there must be greater co-operation here? Should he be saying that there has to be an amalgamation here? Should he be saying that we have got to harness the talents and energies of these people to a greater extent than is being done at the moment. I am not so sure we are harnessing the full benefit of the brains and talents of these people as we should be.
Another matter I wish to refer to is the amount of research and development being carried out by all of the bodies I have already mentioned. It is not being done as effectively and efficiently as one would like. The media, and television in particular, could make a much greater contribution to the agricultural scene in this regard. Would it not be possible for RTE to present a programme, perhaps at lunch time on Sunday, on the latest developments taking place not alone in Ireland but also in the EC so that farmers would at least be au fait with what is happening? It would be a more efficient and effective way than hitherto existed to disseminate this information. There would be a considerable demand for this from the various farming organisations and from farmers in general.
Another question which was referred to today is who will determine whether farmers can pay this charge however nominal it will be. Will it be retained out of grants or will it be a cash payment on demand by the ACOT officer? A number of people will be interested in what the criteria will be in that connection. There is a substantial degree of confidence in agriculture at present. Prices for cattle, calves, sheep and pigs are quite good. There has been a new found confidence in agriculture particularly over the past number of months. I found that demand for the purchase of land, which has not obtained since the late seventies, is again coming back. That is a clear indication of the confidence that exists in the agricultural scene. When one sees reasonably good land making £1,500 an acre, it is not a bad sign of the times.
A ferocious attack was made on the banks and the ACC here today. Some of it, in my opinion, is certainly justified. We cannot allow our financial institutions, who make very substantial profits each year, to walk away from the problem to which they have contributed in such a substantial way. There is not a Member of this House who is not aware of a situation where banks give money to brother against brother and neighbour against neighbour to compete for land. The same banks with the same customers shovelled out money in the late seventies and now these people are worse off than they were then. The farming organisations and ACOT contributed in a substantial way to the difficulties that obtained as a result of those activities in the late seventies. The farming organisations said quite clearly that you must borrow and expand. It was very dear information and advice for many people.
This Bill could be one of the best things that has happened for a long time. For too long we have availed of services free of charge and in many cases treated that service and that advice with absolute contempt. That is not what ACOT officers should be doing. Perhaps we could move more quickly to a time when we would have an ACOT officer for 80, 90 or 100 farmers. This is what is happening in the private area. As a consequence, we could give a better and more effective service. We would also be in a position to provide specialists whether for grain, beef, potatoes or grass. If the money that will be paid as result of this Bill goes towards that kind of development I will certainly welcome it. A continuation of the research and development which I spoke of some time ago could benefit us all under one heading or another, and could benefit the whole agricultural scene to a considerable extent.
I want to refer to the new farm grants announced some weeks ago. The grants that existed up to 1982 were good, were appreciated and were of benefit. The new grants will make a considerable contribution but I have some reservations for the following reasons. There is far too much detail required. The farmer who wants to build a milking parlour, silo or piggery should be allowed to go ahead and do so without having to devise a five year plan. There has to be greater co-operation, almost amalgamation, between the farm modernisation offices and ACOT. During 1982 and 1983 many farmers were told by the ACOT officer that he would approve their plans. Months later the farm modernisation officer had not called out and the grants were terminated. If the ACOT officer approves of a job, it should be acceptable. Let us not have, if at all possible, this system where there are too many people involved with the unfortunate farmer caught in the middle not fully aware of where he is going or where he stands and not au fait with the agricultural or farm modernisation officers. This is an area which we should be tidying up to a considerable extent.
Earlier I mentioned inflation and interest rates. No group of people have paid a greater price than the Irish farmers. Their incomes are basically tied to increases from Brussels. Particularly in the late seventies and early eighties these increases were no more than 3 per cent or 4 per cent. It does not make economic sense to receive an increase of 4 per cent with inflation at 22 per cent. As a consequence of that farmers paid a savage and terrible price. Inflation is now at 4 per cent and dropping, and interest rates will drop substantially in the immediate future. This will make a substantial contribution to confidence in Irish farming and will be of considerable benefit to the whole country.
In my own constituency we had the tragedy of the closure of Erin Foods some short months ago. That company closed, as I said in this House at that time, because of bad management, antiquated machinery and a lack of commitment by Comhlucht Siúicre Éireann Teo. It was not closed due to any lack of commitment or ability in the workforce. I have absolute confidence in the ability of the Minister of State, Deputy Hegarty, to rectify the situation that obtains there. My confidence has not wavered an inch in that area. I have no doubt that, in the next few months, the Minister of State will clearly indicate that that problem has been solved. He will do so for a number of reasons. First, because of his commitment to agriculture and, secondly, his commitment to the food industry, an industry which has been run down over the years by almost all State bodies. There is now a new commitment and I am convinced that in the future the food industry will see a continuation of the work the Minister of State, Deputy Hegarty, has already done for the potato industry. That kind of ground work is required and it will be done. I would like to think that whoever re-opens Erin Foods will have a commitment to research and development and marketing as they are the areas which were the cause of the closure.
I want to say quite clearly in this House that a number of people are very worried about Erin Foods being reopened. Some Members on the opposite side of the House, who spoke during the debate in Private Members' time, are afraid of their lives that it will be reopened. This morning we had an outburst from Deputy Byrne to which I have to refer. He mentioned CIE, the prison service, civil servants and he went through the whole gamut. He stated that we were ploughing money into CIE. The people who gave CIE a blank cheque were not on this side of the House, and Deputy Byrne should know that better than anyone.
I want to refer to the super-levy which has created considerable distress and concern for our dairy farmers. Farmers must now commit their land and milk quota for a period of three years. I want to place on the record of the House my concern for farmers who have been informed that they cannot sell their quota for a period of 12 months. These farmers have suffered enough, both psychologically and financially, and should not have to pay a further price by allowing their quota to go into the creamery flexi-milk situation. I am asking the Minister of State to give serious consideration to that problem. It is a problem for a hell of a lot of people at this time.
I accept that substantial progress has been made in animal disease eradication. There is a small group of people and the cost to them of the decision that the transfer must be for three years is absolutely enormous. A number of my own constituents are caught in that situation and the price is very heavy.
I can see much good in the Bill before the House. It will make far greater use of our ACOT officers. They will be more effective. Now they will be going to people who will appreciate them more than they did when there was no charge. As a consequence their contribution to Irish agriculture will be immense and will further their reputation as a fine body of people.
