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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 17 Jun 1986

Vol. 368 No. 1

Shannon Free Airport Development Company Limited (Amendment) Bill, 1986: Committee and Final Stages.

Question proposed: "That section 1 stand part of the Bill."

I have a question on section 1 which deals with interpretation. I want to suggest on this Stage as I did on Second Stage that the terms of reference of SFADCo, after this Bill has been put through the Oireachtas, will not be mitigated or diluted in any way, that the terms of reference will be as the company have been operating since they were set up in 1959, strengthened somewhat by the 1983 Act in terms of moneys being available to them for grant aid and so forth. On the passing of this section of the Bill I want to be assured that the terms of reference and the functions of SFADCo will not be diminished, diluted or transferred to any other group or organisation.

I would like to reassure the Deputy on this because under this section of the Principal Act the Minister for Finance is empowered to take up by subscription any class or classes of shares of the company. The amount so subscribed by the Minister for Finance was last set out in section 2 of the 1983 Act, £120 million. Provision is now made for £130 million.

We will come to that in a minute on section 2.

Yes, I can give the Deputy that assurance.

Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."

I support the amending Bill in general, as I had not an opportunity to speak on it. SFADCo have been a very fine development in the mid-western region and have done tremendous work. This House owes a great tribute to them for what they have done for this region.

One of the difficulties is that it is only three years since we last had a Bill before the House, which again was enabling legislation, to increase the funding and capital for that company. Like other State agencies they should have a free hand in having enough capital available to develop all the areas they are considering. One such area of which they are making an excellent job is food technology and processing which has a great deal going for it because of our natural resources, but they should be able to plan over a five year period. They should have something like a five year plan of development. When they are restricted in their capital base there is very little opportunity to do long term planning. Since their foundation enabling legislation has been brought before this House for capital funding and that must have been an impediment to the progress of the company. In the political area necessary legislation can be quite slow in coming forward for one reason or another, and I suppose all sides of this House can take the blame for that. Very often more presing problems come before us and consequently such legislation may be left for some time.

Food processing and technology are a new development for SFADCo who will need a huge injection of capital for this. SFADCo are pioneering research and development in this area and I am not satisfied that the funding being made available will be adequate to do that job. They have a huge programme of work to undertake. Deputy Hegarty who is the Minister of State with responsibility for food has been making enormous strides in trying to get this area developed and we in the Cork area are following closely the research and development work in SFADCo. We have a great deal to learn and to achieve from their work. They have a market on their doorstep of which they can take advantage in the whole area of quality and quality presentation through the Shannon Free Airport and the trans-Atlantic service.

Americans have been taking a liking to Irish food and foodstuffs from the point of view of taste and quality. We have a potential to produce foodstuffs that are pure and uncontaminated. Production is not very intensive and that is good in these days of modern technology in agriculture across Europe. We have a climate which suits production of certain foods. I am convinced that the development in the food area under SFADCo is realistic. I would like to see more brand image development. That is one area where we have fallen down. I do not want to deviate too much from the Bill, but we should have more brands rather than one national brand. That will be helpful to our food processing industry and has been successful in other countries. I would like to get the Minister's view on those two points.

I agree generally with what Deputy O'Keeffe had to say. Let me point out that the increase we envisage is adequate for the purpose. It concerns mostly buildings and that sort of thing. The next review will be in 1990. It is felt generally that this increase is more than enough.

We are trying here this evening to do what we have been doing over the years, to afford the Oireachtas an opportunity to review regularly the affairs of the company. We have had meetings with the SFADCo people and we are not aware of any complaints from them. We have these regular reviews. I am sure both sides of the House welcome the initiative by SFADCo on the food scene. As a matter of fact, I have often felt this area was lacking in our agri business. We can see what happens in many of our supermarkets. We see new types of cheeses and other food products. How does one get them initiated here? The commercial people are not too keen, perhaps rightly. Perhaps too much of a gamble is involved. Therefore, we need somebody like SFADCo to manufacture and fabricate a product and have its markets tested and then when it is commercial, to roll it, so to speak. We think £130 million is adequate, and I think the House will agree with that.

Section 2 increases the facility of the Minister for Finance to take up shares in the company. It is proposed to raise the existing level of £120 million to £130 million. Are the Minister and the Government satisfied that the present limit is adequate? Am I correct in saying that about £91 million of the £120 million has already been taken up? Is the Minister satisfied that this sum is adequate, because it will be a considerable time before we review this Bill? The Minister indicated that the last review was in 1983 and that the next would be in 1990. Are the limits now set for the share capital of the Minister for Finance in this company adequate for a period of four years? In the structure of moneys are we allowing for any possible economic upturn or expansion of economic developments in that area? I should like to be assured that any increased activity in the mid-west would not be short-changed because of any inadequacy in the Bill, especially in section 2.

I am glad to have the opportunity of making a few comments on the Bill. I have been in the House now for almost 25 years——

On section 2, please.

Deputy O'Keeffe raised the question of food processing, which is very important. I am also concerned at Deputy Lyons' comments regarding the funding now being provided and whether it is adequate. However, the Minister does not have to wait four years; if necessary, he can come back at any stage to seek additional funding for SFADCo. With regard to Deputy O'Keeffe's comments, food processing is very important and I am pleased that SFADCo over the last couple of years made considerable progress in identifying processing and doing something about it. There is a food processing centre at Raheen which provides opportunities for entrepreneurs to start up in business and to test their products. I am not aware of any complaints about the inadequacy for food processing at present. Over the years I criticised SFADCo because, although we had a massive industrial estate, a tremendous development unique in Europe, we did not have an industry for processing the natural raw materials of the land. At last something is being done about that.

I am not too concerned at this stage about providing finance for the next four years. We are all concerned about the provision of adequate capital to enable SFADCo to do the job. I urge the Government and the Minister to do everything in their power to encourage them to continue to focus on the development of food processing. They have mounted exhibitions and done a lot in the area of public relations to make people aware of the possibilities in food processing.

The financial provisions in the Bill are adequate at present and if, in one or two years' time SFADCo need more money, we will ensure that the Government will provide it.

We are concerned at the fact that recently the chairman of the Committee on Public Expenditure, Deputy Keating, made a very negative and selective attack on the company, suggesting that certain functions were not their responsibility. In relation to this amendment——

There is no amendment on this section.

In relation to the provision of finances for the company, it is not in the best interests of the developing company to come back in two or three years' time in a piecemeal fashion to seek additional funds. Any company involved in promotion, develoment, tourism, airport traffic, industrial development and so on like that at Shannon, need to be in a position to plan over a period of at least five years. It is not in the best interests of the company or their work — or indeed in the best interests of the House — to come back every two and a half years or so seeking further financial support to enable them to do their business. There should be no dilution of the status of responsibilities of the company and it is in the overall interests of the development of the area, the mid-west region in particular, to have a development agency which could oversee the whole process of development within the region.

That is why we have been amazed and indeed alarmed at the selective and negative stance adopted by Deputy Keating. His view was not shared by the committee as a whole. It was a selective statement issued by the deputy leader of the Progressive Democrats and I do not believe he has much support for that view in the mid-west region. We are concerned that the necessary overall finances will be provided for the development company and, in not providing for the full four year period, we are afraid that it may be the Government's intention to dilute the responsibilities of the company in question. I should like to get a firm assurance from the Minister in this regard.

I read the report of the OECD and they were loud in their praise of what has happened here compared with other countries. They said we have been progressive and far-seeing in this regard. However, we could do more in the area of marketing. Money is the key to the success of food processing. We have fallen down in processing and marketing. I have to compliment the Minister because he has been very forthcoming in this area and is trying to correct the situation. But this cannot be done unless money is provided. I would like some answers. Will the money be provided? Can the Government insist on the money being provided for marketing? In the agri-food area Raheen is now in operation and a substantial number of jobs are being provided, but all this will fall flat on its face if we do not take care of the whole marketing area.

We seem to be taking sections 2 and 3 together.

We are dealing with section 2.

Section 2 deals with the aggregate amounts which the Minister for Finance may subscribe under that section by taking up shares in the company. What is proposed in this Bill is that we repeal the previous figure of £120 million and substitute instead that the aggregate amount so subscribed shall not exceed £130 million. That is fairly definite. I have suggested that the existing £120 million will be taken up over the next two years and there will still be two years to run on this Bill, given the indication by the Minister that it will be 1990 before we are back. I do not accept that the Government, or any Government, can come back here at any time and ask for this money to be raised if the need arises because it says here quite definitely that the aggregates of the amount subscribed shall not exceed £130 million. Are we saying in effect that the present £120 million will be taken up by the Minister over the next two years and that the £10 million will be sufficient for the remaining two years or the suggested lifetime of this amending Bill? That is all we want to know.

I agree with Deputy O'Keeffe that marketing is important. SFADCo have been liaising very closely with CTT on the whole marketing front and this arrangement is working well. I agree with Deputy O'Donnell that SFADCo have been doing a good job on the food front and will continue to do so. In regard to Deputy Lyons' point, we have had discussions. Let us remember that we are talking about projections and buildings and so on and we have been reassured by SFADCo that the £130 million will suffice to take them up to 1990. I would also like to reassure Deputy Daly, who is not in the House at the moment, that the Minister has laid to rest any fears. The Minister's Second Stage speech must reassure everybody. It has certainly reassured the people in SFADCo. He also mentioned the five year period. A corporate plan has been received from the company and they have been reassured by the Second Stage speeches of all Members of the House that they can plan for that period regardless of any statements.

Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 3.

Deputy Lyons' amendment No. 1 was ruled out of order as it involved a potential charge upon the Revenue. A substitute amendment on the white list was also ruled out of order because, again, that would involve a potential charge on the Revenue. Deputy Lyons is at liberty to speak on the section.

Amendment No. 1 not moved.
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."

Let me explain that in the amendment as first published there was an error, possibly on my part. In any case I was not proposing that we increase the figure by £1 million. The intention was to increase it by £10 million. I know another statesman who got mixed up with noughts but I do not want to be put on a parallel with him by any stretch of the imagination. Much of what we were saying in section 2 strayed into section 3 in regard to the grant-in-aid required by SFADCo. I am aware that the figure in the 1983 Bill was £60 million and it is proposed to raise that to £105 million in this Bill. Given the timescale — and I keep referring to that because it is important — I feel this increase is insufficient and that is why I wanted to amend it.

I have the statement from the Ceann Comhairle's Office stating that substitute amendment No. 1 tabled by me for the Committee Stage of this Bill was adjudged to be out of order because it would involve a potential charge upon the Revenue. I have no option but to accept that decision. That sort of decision worried me somewhat because it could easily create a precedent and even if we could justify that an increase was insufficient, it would not be possible to discuss it if money had not been provided. I honestly believe that is a dangerous precedent.

Is the Deputy questioning the decision of the Chair?

Far from it. It is on the record that I accept the decision of the Ceann Comhairle. I have no other option but to accept it and I am not accepting it in any qualified way. What I am saying is that we could be discussing a Bill such as this and, even if there was agreement between the Government and the Opposition that the provision of money was inadequate, we could find ourselves in a position where we could not discuss increasing the amount. That is restrictive. We must take into account that the cost of grants to small industries administered by SFADCo in the mid-west region outside the Shannon Free Airport zone is borne by the Industrial Development Authority. That situation arose from the legislation passed in 1983 which was the last occasion on which the question of financial assistance to the company was raised and that legislation gave statutory authority to SFADCo, although the right had been with the company since 1978.

The proposal is to increase the amount under the 1983 Act of £60 million to £105 million in this legislation, to operate over the next four years. It would be regrettable, to say the least, if a couple of years hence the SFADCo operation had exhausted that £105 million and there were valuable and viable projects on hand which could do with grant in aid and which could not be assisted. I know that whatever figure is mentioned could be increased, but why stop at £105 million? Would it not be better to be on the safe side in ensuring that money required would be available? SFADCo will only spend money allocated to them after careful consideration; that has been their record and their history. It would be a sad state of affairs if the money allocated in this legislation were found to be insufficient. I know the company could seek amending legislation but there is enough insecurity around at present. To expect an organisation such as SFADCo to operate surrounded by even the smallest semblance of uncertainty would be retrograde. It is our function as legislators to ensure that there will be no uncertainty in the foreseeable future with regard to the advancement of SFADCo in the mid-west region in the performance of their functions under their terms of reference, which are — to generate air traffic through the airport, to encourage the expansion and the development of manufacturing industry at Shannon Airport and to encourage and assist in every way the development of small manufacturing industry in the mid-west region as a whole. Any legislation must not hinder or hamper that company, in view of their success. The uncertainty engendered by section 3 was and still is my concern.

The first time the company took a pilot role in food processing was in 1985. It is encouraging that all the new units dealing with this area were taken up. SFADCo have a very different organisation, as proved by their progress. Their major future growth will probably be in the food technology area. If we are to command a price for our products, we must have them delivered on time. We have sometimes fallen down in this respect. I hope that SFADCo will keep up their good work in the area of ensuring prompt deliveries. The whole economy would benefit enormously, from a whole new area being opened up with perhaps new markets, and many new jobs which are so badly needed at this time by our young people being created. These opportunities would arise from our own natural resources and that is very important.

No work has been done yet in the area of fish processing and development. This opportunity could be exploited and it would take a firm like SFADCo, who have shown much courage, to start on this theme. There is a huge national resource encompassing the whole Shannon estuary. We claim in the Cork area to have the finest deep waters, but there is a huge potential for fish farming in the Shannon area which also has excellent waterways. If those opportunities are developed, that will lead to a need for processing and marketing.

We have the developments at Moneypoint and Aughanish which are interesting and give great employment opportunities in key industries. I understand that there would be potential in Moneypoint in the food development area from the point of view of hot water being available for glasshouse production. That area must be exploited and we cannot afford to let such opportunities pass. I wish the Minister, who has such a keen interest in this area, every success and hope he will use his good offices with SFADCo for the encouragment of development in these new areas. We see Norwegian and Japanese ships bringing in service goods to plants. That under-lines our need for our own shipping line.

That is not relevant on section 3.

The only advantage I can see to these ships calling to our ports is that their large crews will avail of our foodstuffs and I am convinced that they will carry the good message back to their countries of origin about the excellence of these products.

Are we discussing the amendment?

We are discussing the section.

The amounts outlined in this section and the increase in grants involved are welcomed by everybody in the House. The increased funds will be of benefit to all the areas which come under the scope of this section and to the areas which come within the ambit of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company. One of the areas of importance is food and food processing. SFADCo are involved in this area. I hope that with these increased grants they may be able to expand further into food, food processing and the development of different types of products for sale, not only on the Irish market but on the British market and other European markets. Perhaps the Minister would be more specific and give us details of the percentage of grants paid by SFADCo in regard to food processing. There is enormous potential for SFADCo in this regard. The amount under this section, £105 million, is a vast sum of money. Throughout the SFADCo area there are large numbers of firms involved in food processing.

Batchelors have been taken over recently by Northern Foods and Beechams. SFADCo should work in conjunction with existing bodies. There is not enough co-operation or intermingling between the IDA and SFADCo. They are both trying to encourage people to develop industry and provide jobs. In this instance, I am not certain whether or not there is a real opportunity for SFADCo to join with some of the bigger companies. Nevertheless, I hope that a body such as SFADCo will take a very close interest in assisting the farmers who are the producers and the industrialists, the people who are involved in small and medium-sized firms. They should help in providing the expertise and the capital necessary to produce marketable goods. There is a great potential for food processing in Ireland. The Minister has a specific interest in this field. He is aware that each year we import vast quantities of vegetables from Britain and specifically brassicas from Spain. SFADCo should co-operate with other firms to give encouragement and assistance to farmers and to firms. They should assist them with marketing, expertise and advice to develop food processing in Ireland.

Recently I spoke to a number of people involved in horticulture who carried out a survey of a number of supermarkets in Dublin. They found that most house-wives prefer fresh or chilled vegetables to tinned or packaged vegetables. There is a market for firms who process fresh or chilled vegetables. We are all aware of the firms who are involved in vegetable production and processing. There are quite a number of them, the Fruit Importers of Ireland, the Kinsealy Farms, the Irish Sugar Company and so on, involved in different forms of food processing and food production. I hope and envisage that the Minister for Agriculture, with the help of the Minister for Industry and Commerce and of SFADCo, will undertake market research into the area where a specific product could be geared for a particular consumer.

It is important that proper marketing research be carried out. SFADCo have the expertise to find out what products are needed. It is within the ambit, scope and guidelines of SFADCo to be able to provide finance and assistance to firms to produce the products which are required from the results of that research. This is an area which is very important. The Minister on a news programme last night dealt with the scope and potential which is there. The potential is there and not just in one specific area. There is a huge market in Great Britain. If one visits any shop in Dublin or rural Ireland for nine months out of 12 months one will find they are buying imported vegetables and fruit. That is an area where we have enormous potential. There are no mountains of vegetables in the EC as in other products. There is enormous potential in vegetables. Through firms, such as SFADCo, with the assistance of other semi-State agencies, the potential is there for us to move in that direction. I hope this will be looked at closely.

I will give the Minister an example. One area where there is vast potential, if properly marketed, is in salads and coleslaw etc. Vast quantities of these products are being imported. With modern techniques they can be prepared and made available. It is important that this be looked at further.

Have we enough money for them?

That is why the increase specified in the Bill is sizeable. The Minister and the Government are to be commended on bringing about this increase. There are a number of firms involved in the processing and production of vegetables. Northern Foods are one such firm. They have enormous capital resouces and their involvement is to be welcomed. In this part of Ireland food processing in general is to be welcomed. It is not alone of importance to the firm in question but also to the farming community that they get every co-operation and assistance. The vegetables produced by the farming community are of top class quality and are recognised as such throughout Ireland, Britain and Europe. It is important that we avail of these products.

SFADCo were welcomed when they moved into my constituency of Laois-Offaly, particularly in the south and west areas. I must say that all of the units they built and prepared were well planned and are of excellent quality. Care has been taken to ensure that the area in which they were erected was properly land-scaped. That is important and I welcome it. The Minister should further consider the expansion of smaller units in different towns. A resolution was proposed by Offaly County Council that the area and scope for development of SFADCo should be extended as far as Tullamore. I ask the Minister to consider such a development. Others are anxious that SFADCo be extended to parts of Laois also.

The Deputy will have to wait until Fianna Fáil are elected to be able to do that.

If there are requests from particular areas for such development they should be seriously considered. Offaly County Council proposed a resolution to this effect some time ago. I ask the Minister to consider such an extension of the work of SFADCo. The extension in grants is to be welcomed.

I am a bit perturbed regarding the comments by Deputy Lyons vis-à-vis the adequacy of finance. The Deputy said, if I am quoting him correctly, it is important that there be no element of doubt on the part of SFADCo about the fact that they may not have adequate funding. It is necessary for the Minister of State to clarify this situation. The people in SFADCo and in the mid-west should be informed and assured that there will be adequate finance available. I assume that the figures in this Bill were compiled by the Department following indepth consultations with the board and officials of SFADCo and are based on the projections which can be ascertained at present. I want to put the Minister of State on a spot. I appreciate that he is deputising for his Minister but at the same time he will have no hesitation in giving an assurance that it is very difficult to forecast what will happen over a four year period. The economy might start to move well and the money being provided might be spent in two years time. An assurance should be given that should such a set of fortuitous circumstances arise the Minister will come back to this House and any developments and projects which will provide employment will not fail for the lack of Government financial backing. Deputy Lyons raised this point and I am sure the Minister of State will be able to reassure us.

Deputy O'Keeffe and Deputy Enright raised the question of expenditure of the money which is now being voted for SFADCo. They emphasised the vital importance of and the priority which should be accorded to food processing. Deputy Enright dealt at length with many aspects of this. Let me say as one who has considerable experience in dealing with SFADCo that I have been encouraging individuals who have ideas for the development of food processing projects to go to SFADCo. I must say that SFADCo's set up is very good. They are highly sophisticated in their approach, efficient when it comes to processing applications, rendering every possible assistance to potential entrepreneurs.

I am sure the Minister is well aware that SFADCo are receiving great co-operation from ACOT. I agree with Deputy Enright and Deputy O'Keeffe that there is enormous potential in this area. Therefore, it is vital that there be close co-operation between SFADCo and ACOT, which is evident in the mid-west region.

I am aware of a number of original imaginative projects, amongst them venison and goosemeat production, by way of import substitution. Some months ago SFADCo held a seminar when there were on display something of the order of 350 food products, mostly in the food speciality area, many of which are at present imported and which SFADCo contend could be produced at home. Therefore, they established what might be described as an incubator centre at Raheen where anybody with an idea about a food project could receive assistance and guidance. Provided SFADCo felt there was market potential for the product, one could experiment with one's product and then seek the aid of SFADCo to test its market. I am very pleased that the company have launched into that area.

We are here talking about the expenditure of money. As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle is well aware, SFADCo do not confine their activities to food processing. They constitute an outstanding example of what a development agency can achieve, how State funds can be expended in the best possible manner. The innovation centre at the NIHE at Plassey is one such example. While there has been excellent liaison between SFADCo and ACOT in the food processing area tremendous work has been done by way of linkage between the NIHE in Limerick and SFADCo. Last week there was a group of German parliamentarians here — from the State of Baden-Württemberg — who visited Limerick for three days. Of all the things they saw in the mid-west region what most impressed them was the innovation centre at Plassey where they are into very high technology, the application of micro-electronics and so on. The Germans said that some of the products being produced there, in small units, were well up to German, if not international standards.

Being optimistic I would envisage the Minister having to return to this House well before another four years have elapsed seeking further finance for SFADCo when I am sure that whatever Minister or Government are in power in will be willing to sanction it, as they have been over the years.

We all accept that SFADCo are the leader or co-ordinator of all activity in the mid-west region. We have been placing emphasis on some of their areas of responsibility. I wholeheartedly agree with the goal of import substitution, particularly with regard to food products. Therefore, I concur with the views of my colleagues on the need for SFADCo to place emphasis in that direction, whether it be with regard to food or any other products. The value of present imports creates such an imbalance in our economy that we should make an immediate effort to curb them, thereby creating employment for the young and perhaps not so young. If there is any organisation capable of setting a headline in that regard it must be SFADCo. Therefore I am glad to note the expression of confidence in what they are doing and, indeed, in what they have achieved over the past 27 years. SFADCo, as a statutory body in the mid-west region, could be the forerunner by way of example of how that imbalance in our economy which has led to so many of our people being unemployed can be redressed. It would be ridiculous to suggest that the huge national problem of unemployment could be solved by SFADCo. On the basis that few other organisations, if any, are in a position to do something worth-while, by way of giving the lead or encouragement, then this organisation has a role to play.

We are here talking about grants-in-aid, which are to meet the running expenses of the company and provide financial assistance to companies in the Shannon Industrial Estate. We are aware also that a substantial proportion of the company's running expenses relate to the administration of their small, indigenous industry programme in the mid-west region. Here it must be emphasised that grants for plant and equipment, training, research and development and other programmes are given by the IDA. It must be borne in mind also that approximately 70 per cent of the company's administration costs are offset primarily by way of rent on factory space.

In relation to running expenses, there is one other aspect of activity in the mid-west region to which I should like to refer. A significant element of these expenses arising from the company's tourism activities used to be met by a special grant-in-aid for which the Minister for Tourism was specifically accountable notwithstanding that the amount comes from within the overall limit being amended by section 3 of this Bill. The Department of Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism has been changed and we now have the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Minister for Tourism, Fisheries and Forestry. There is need for the greatest co-operation between Board Fáilte, SFADCo and Aer Rianta. These bodies must realise that their functions complement each other and they must act in a co-ordinated way to ensure the future development of the region for which they are responsible. One of the areas dealt with in the report of the Oireachtas Committee on Public Expenditure was duplication of wasteful expenditure.

SFADCo are seen as the leader but I would place all the organisations on an even keel. We can see the great opportunities for employment and economic development in the region with the facilities which are available at the airport and the developments which have taken place at Shannon over the past 27 years.

Section 3 deals with the grant-in-aid. We are not being critical of these organisations but we are offering a constructive suggestion. These bodies are grant-aided by State funds and it behoves us to ensure that this money, which is so painfully collected, is used to the best advantage.

There is always an extra effort which every body can make and now more than ever is that extra push required from SFADCo, Bord Fáilte and Aer Rianta. The local authorities in that area also have a role to play. As I said on Second Stage, this region could serve as an example to other areas. In time perhaps we could see a south-west type SFADCo operation. The west, north-west, south-west, east and north-east all need a boost at present. I am not suggesting that we should introduce legislation to set up statutory authorities in all these regions. However, action will need to be taken in all these regions in relation to unemployment which would give hope to many thousands of people. A commitment should be given in future legislation to solve unemployment which is our biggest social problem. Regrettably we have been addressing various other issues and have not given this problem the degree of concern it deserves and which is expected from us by the unemployed and young people who see little hope of a future for them. That is why I was anxious to introduce into the debate the involvement of SFADCo and Aer Rianta in tourism development in that region. As usual, in making passing references to such matters, I am able to stay within the terms of the Bill.

I do not wish to detain the House unnecessarily but the Bill is important and we are dealing with the expenditure of State money. It is importand that all aspects of the legislation are teased out. I was please to hear Deputy Lyons refer to tourism because we have dealt with food processing, the innovation centre at Plassey and developments in the micro-electronics industry. I should like to comment on two important points Deputy Lyons made. I was pleased to hear him refer to the need to co-ordinate the work of the various State bodies in the Shannon region. Aer Rianta are responsible for the airport, Bord Fáilte have overall responsibility for tourism, the Shannonside Regional Tourism Organisation are responsible for tourism in the region and SFADCo are responsible for industrial development. I was concerned to hear rumours recently that the powers of SFADCo will be diminished in that the tourism function of that organisation will be given to Bord Fáilte or the regional tourism organisation. I will oppose that move vigorously in the House and outside. SFADCo have done tremendous pioneering work in the field of tourism. Castle Tours and Castle Banquets are evidence of the success of SFADCo in the area of tourism.

I should like to express my appreciation of the work of SFADCo in encouraging visitors from Europe to the region. For some years now charter flights have been arriving at Shannon from different European countries, Germany, Denmark and Switzerland, and SFADCo are trying to develop that market further. I agree with those who have complained that we do not concentrate enough on Europe in our efforts to attract tourists but few can question the efforts of SFADCo in that regard. I suggest that that organisation be given carte blanche in their efforts to attract European visitors. The future of the tourist industry depends on the development of European traffic. Last year when I attended one of the largest European tourist fairs, in Stuttgart, I was very impressed by the work of the officials of the tourist section of SFADCo. The results speak for themselves and officials there realise the potential for the development of the region. I have no doubt that there will be further characters from other European cities. SFADCo have blazed the trail and there should not be any attempt to interfere with their operations.

I agree with the call by Deputy Lyons for greater co-ordination. In that region the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Minister for Tourism, Fisheries and Forestry have a function. I have always held the belief that Tourism should be linked with Transport. In a small island country like ours access transport is a vital part of tourism. I prefer to see those interests under one ministry, as happened some years ago. It is important that we ensure that there is no overlapping or wasting of State funds. At present there may be some overlapping in regard to tourism and some apparent overlapping in regard to the functions of SFADCo and Aer Rianta vis-á-vis the airport but I am not too concerned about them because there is a good relationship between those organisations.

It is a tribute to SFADCo that Deputies on all sides of the House compliment them on their operations and are anxious that the company should function even more effectively in the future. However, the strategy of SFADCo should be applied to other regions. Some years ago there was some flak flying between Cork and Shannon and I took one of my party colleagues to task for suggesting that Shannon was being treated over-generously. I suggested to that Deputy that he should do something about setting up a similar type operation to cover the south-west. We would not object to such a development.

Having worked in the area of EC regional policy in the past seven years I am aware that many of the developments of SFADCo are funded by the Regional Fund and the Social Fund. However, I am disappointed that the Government did not avail of this opportunity to look at SFADCo in the context of being a development agency for the mid-west region along the lines of State agencies in the Mezzogiorno in Southern Italy. I hope the Government, when considering local government reform, will designate SFADCo as the regional development agency with responsibility for all aspects of development, economic, social and cultural. That would be in accordance with European thinking on regional development.

We have a tremendous opportunity to set up similar agencies in the south-west and the west because under the new EC regulations finance is available for regional development programmes. The Government should avail of that assistance and designate SFADCo as the agency with responsibility for all aspects of development in the mid-west region. They should submit a four year development plan to Brussels, and the money will be forthcoming, £1 for £1, for any type of programme during that time. Having done that, I should like to see a similar type agency set up for the south-west and the west and other regions. We have no proper regional development policy in Ireland. We have SFADCo as a pilot, an ideal model, for proper regional development throughout Ireland.

I should like to follow up what Deputy O'Donnell said, and I should like to alleviate any fears he might have about Fianna Fáil's commitment. We are firmly committed to the continuation and further development of SFADCo. We have no intention of interfering in any way with that agency, in or out of Government, because SFADCo have played a major role in the development of the mid-west. They have laid the foundation for the type of regional development we should be moving towards. We must do more to develop our indigenous resources. It is a pity that from time to time politicans have tried to undermine SFADCo and have a go at it. More responsible politicians should not tolerate that.

Tourism is an important industry in that area but we have not harnessed it to its full potential. We have an enlarged EC with new members like Spain, Portugal and Greece. European prices have been high and it is quite likely that there will be a reduction in the number of tourists travelling to those countries. We should be trying to attract more tourists to our market but our prices must be in line. It is well known that many people throughout the west prefer to spend their holidays in climates like ours rather than in the warmer climates. That is to our advantage. Though we may be critical of our misty isle, as John F. Kennedy once called it, we should be very proud of it. We should sell our tourism more intensively in Europe, particularly in Germany, Denmark and other such countries. We have many scenic areas to offer.

From time to time I travel through the mid-west, particularly in County Clare, and I have always been proud of what I have seen. Having driven through Limerick to Ennis and further, I have often been struck by the prosperity there and I feel envy when I go back to the level lands of Cork. I notice Deputy Daly and Deputy O'Donnell taking great interest in what I am saying——

What about the other Banner man?

I can take care of my part of the world.

We have been questioning finances. The increase in capital is £10 million, a small amount when you analyse the position. Three years ago we debated an increase in capital for SFADCo. If there are to be the exciting developments SFADCo have in mind, particulary in relation to the food industry, I believe we will be debating shortly a further request for capital. We talk much about import substitutions. We have three items in respect of which there is great potential for development, fishing, agriculture and forestry. I will refer briefly to a recent OECD report which stated that 40 companies in Ireland import about 75 per cent of their total material inputs, with the result that inter-industrial linkages between the indigenous sectors and foreign high technology remain limited. One striking result is that between 1980 and 1984 when manufacturing was falling and real GNP grew by 2 per cent, industrial production rose by 24 per cent and exports by 32.8 per cent.

There is therefore a case for developing our own resources, and the pilot scheme at Raheen is a very worth while development. I expect a lot from it and we cannot praise it highly enough. I should like to see in the southern region a similar organisation to SFADCo. There is great potential in the Cork and Kerry region and indeed we envy the success of SFADCo. I was glad to hear Deputy Enright speak of development in Laois-Offaly. Of course it was a Fianna Fáil Minister who enlarged SFADCo's interest in Offaly.

SFADCo have been responsible for the major success of small industries. Recently in their report the chairman said it was the very best of small industry. It is exciting to know that 500 new jobs were created in the mid-west, grant-aided during the last year. That is further proof of the successful management and ability of the people concerned. About 164 small industries were developed in difficult times.

I asked the Minister of State not long ago to comment on fishing and the development of the estuaries for mariculture and fish farming. I asked about the availability of large volumes of water of high temperature from Moneypoint which would go to waste or ill-use. It is a resource in itself because it would help to develop the glasshouse industry which has been going to the dogs. There is huge potential in that industry if there was a source of heat energy available. In better circumstances we could complete with the best in Europe. The Minister of State, Deputy Hegarty, has a great interest in these matters and I should like to hear his comment and his commitment so that SFADCo would harness some of the Moneypoint water energy to pilot projects in fish farming and glasshouses.

I am at pains to keep to section 3. My amendment was ruled out of order because of rules and regulations governing revenue. I have read that the accumulated expenditure of SFADCo in share capital and grant-aid as at 31 May last amounted to £91.6 million and £60 million, respectively. The grant-in-aid limit has been reached by the company and they have been relying in the meantime on a combination of their own resources, on income and, worst of all, on bank borrowings to meet their obligations. As the Minister said on Second Stage, it is a matter of urgency that these limits be increased now and it is estimated that the increases proposed will suffice until 1990. Those were the words of the Minister and I underlined them in the script of the Minister's speech. Like many other people, I have a horror of bank borrowings——

I am delighted to hear of such a change of heart.

Borrowings have brought us to our present level and in recent times borrowings have been even worse than before. When I read SFADCo had to borrow to keep in existence, I was prompted to put down the amendment and it is regrettable that because of procedure we cannot debate it. Because SFADCo ran out of the funds they were allocated under the terms of the 1983 Bill, I was trying to ensure that in future they would not have to rely on borrowings. That was the reason I put down the amendment.

As I said on Second Stage, I welcome the Minister's initiative even though it has been decried by Deputy Lyons. He is looking for a token sum of £1 million——

On a point of order, the correction was indicated by me at the beginning of this debate——

A point of order is a matter of procedure. The point the Deputy is making is not a point of order.

The amount is £10 million, not£1 million. The mistake was pointed out but Deputy Carey was not in the House at the time. Now he is trying to be smart.

That is not a point of order.

I cannot be responsible for any mathematical errors made by Deputy Lyons.

The man who never made a mistake never made anything.

Irrespective of the amount involved in the Deputy's amendment, I am sure this Government will not set the precedent of denying SFADCo any opportunity to set up a new industry in the industrial estate at Shannon. They have never done that before. Even though Deputy Lyons has decried borrowing by the company, I am quite certain after the exhaustive examination by the company internally and the deliberations of the Committee on Public Expenditure, inspired once again by jealous Corkmen——

Let the Deputy name them.

Generally SFADCo have proved they have used properly the capital resources available to them.

What about the Deputy's colleagues——

Yes, Deputies on both sides.

No. The Deputy will not name anyone here. He can name his own colleagues. Let him be fair about the matter.

It is right and proper that the Minister should move quickly on the matter. Deputy O'Donnell spoke about extending the remit. There is a new team now working in the development company and I expect they will respond to calls for an expansion of the industrial programme on the industrial estate at Shannon. Now is the time for them to move in view of the economic situation, because there has been a downturn in the cost of energy and also because there are few industrial disputes at Shannon. Any kind of reasonable agreement promoted by the employers and unions has been met fairly by both sides and there has been only one or two major industrial disputes in the area. Since 1960, SFADCo have used their capital resources in a proper way.

Deputy O'Donnell referred to tourism. That aspect of the operation is not seen to work properly. A considerable number of aircraft cross the Atlantic each day eastbound for Europe. In recent times there has been a reduction but I will give the House one figure to illustrate the point I wish to make. There are ten aircraft per day ferrying US personnel from Europe to the US. We have already a Russian presence at Shannon Airport and I do not see why we cannot offer the facilities available there to the companies flying American personnel to and from their duties in Europe. Even if we had four additional landings per day it would improve the transit traffic at Shannon. I should like to see the people in SFADCo getting together with officers of other promoting agencies such as Aer Rianta and Bord Fáilte to consider the promotion of the kind of development to which I have referred.

This injection of capital is well-timed. Shannon is facing new competition from a major airport known as the Connacht Regional Airport. They are trying to zone in on the new traffic that Shannon has attempted to develop. In recent times Aer Lingus have got permission to build a new freight terminal and a private company expect to build a smaller freight or warehouse at Shannon. SFADCo and Aer Rianta have used this facility to promote the interests of the country.

The export of meat from Shannon has been a great help to the west and I hope it continues. I was not too happy with the establishment of the Connacht Regional Airport which is only 60 miles up the road — and in international terms that is not very far. I wish the company and the Monsignor well but there are limitations to the market they are entering. I hope this new airport does not result in a downturn in employment in Shannon. Scarce Government resources have been put to very good use in the international airport in my constituency. I welcome this section and wish it a speedy passage through the House.

I want to deal with a few points raised by Deputy O'Donnell. I agree with him wholeheartedly in the emphasis he placed on the desirability of having a regional development strategy. In SFADCo we have the ideal vehicle by which regional development can be promoted. SFADCo have overall responsibility for development in the region — large industry, industrial promotion, tourism and development and a range of activities such as the food processing experiment and so on. I agree with Deputy O'Donnell that there is a need for a strong regional development infrastructure in identified regions. We need stronger regional development and more investment and decentralisation. In the main, most regions should be self-sufficient so far as organisation and the provision of jobs are concerned. This would take some of the pressures off other parts of the country.

In the mid-west region we should utilise our own resources, whether they be food or fisheries. This would provide a substantial number of jobs in the region which would mean people would not be seeking employment elsewhere. The development company have a grave responsibility to create further jobs in the tourist related activities in which they were so successful in the past. One only has to mention places like Bunratty and Craggaunowen, where the Shannon development company, by investing in a tourist related development, attracted people to the region and kept them there. One of the difficulties we had in the Shannon region when passengers disembarked at the international airport was to keep them in the region because this would benefit the local economy and would create further prosperity. The development company have had a tremendous success in the Bunratty Castle complex, the Folk Park and the banquets at Bunratty and other places. These are very strong attractions and are keeping visitors in the region.

I should like to direct the attention of the Minister and the company to the huge potential in many parts of the mid-west region as regards tourist related activities and the promotion and investment of funds in developing areas which would attract people. One such area is the Burren, which has beautiful scenery and is one of the most attractive areas in the west. With proper management and with the preservation of the flora and fauna of the Burren we could have an ideal centre which would attract people to the Knock-Clare region, a difficult area in which to create employment. This would be of immense benefit to the local economy.

Farm house holidays, small businesses, small hotels and guesthouses, which are going through a very difficult period at present, would be supported if special areas were promoted and developed fully by an agency like SFADCo. In these areas there are many small farmers whose incomes are restricted and certain activities could help them supplement their income. The Minister should direct the company to look at areas like the Burren and Knock-Clare to see what can be done. Perhaps we could have a golden triangle in the Knock-Clare area — the Burren, Galway and Ennis — similar to the golden triangle of Ennis, Limerick, Shannon.

The Deputy is doing his constituency well.

We have been doing fine without interruptions. The lack of a Bunratty type attraction in the West Clare area has been a great disadvantage. Scattery Island is an ideal location for the development of a scenic area with a tourism related project. The development company might consider investing to restore Scattery Island because at present while it is a beautiful area it is very overgrown and neglected. The development company could use the funds available under this section to make Scattery Island-Kilrush an area for special attention where there could be investment to attract people. We could provide a service from Kilrush to the island which is not available at present.

Earlier we discussed the development of the estuary. When the estuary legislation comes before us later this year, we will have another opportunity to discuss it further. On the Clare side of the estuary——

The Deputy forgot Carrigaholt Castle.

From Carrigaholt to Cappagh, Kilrush, Killadysert and Laba-sheeda, there is not one single industrial site even though sites were identified as being suitable for industrial promotion for large and small industry. We would like the developing company with responsibility for the mid-west region to look very carefully at this area and to identify with other development agencies as a matter of urgency, suitable sites, acquire them and have them available for industrial promotion and development in the west Clare area — from Carrigaholt to Cratloe and Limerick city. We have ideal sites there with attractions that are not available in other parts of the country. We have an estuary which has been relatively unexploited up to now, with the possibility of further industries with the establishment of Aughinish and the Moneypoint generating station. It is time for the development company to direct their attention with the new estuary authority, when established, and the agencies and bodies responsible for tourism, agriculture and industrial related activities along that estuary, to getting together with a plan for the development of the Clare side of the estuary to make sure that we get the full benefit of this magnificent resource which has been relatively untapped and undeveloped up to now when substantial funds are available from the EC to help in the establishment of a major port in the Shannon estuary.

There are some areas which need to be examined in a special way at this time when the various agencies are being examined here by Dáil committees and when the companies are examining their positions. It is time for them to look at the areas which have been handicapped in the past years where we have not had the same level of job creation or industrial development as we have in other areas. I request the Minister now to direct SFADCo to the areas which have the potential in both north and west Clare for development which well be of immense benefit to the region generally. If we can get from SFADCo some further action in these areas it would be of immense benefit in job creation and would create enormous wealth within the whole region. It would take some of the pressure off the other regions. We should back up with Government action the whole area of decentralisation so that we can have very healthy economic areas and regions, something similar to what Deputy O'Donnell had in mind when he spoke here and which we know would have the wholehearted support of the MEPs in getting European regional aid to support the involvement of development companies and agencies and everybody involved in the overall development of these important regions. I ask the Minister to respond positively to the views expressed from this side of the House this afternoon.

A beautiful tour of County Clare.

He did that last week.

(Interruptions.)

Order, please.

I welcome the general constructive tone of the debate and the positive points that have been made which will be considered seriously and, as far as is practicable, will be taken on board.

On the points made by Deputy Lyons with regard to his fears about the funding right up to 1990, we are satisfied that we are all right up to 1990, that the funding has been increased from £60 million up to £105 million, which is a substantial increase. The previous one was from £40 million to £60 million. Any Minister — I for one — would be prepared to come into the House again to vote further resources if necessary because I agree fully that funding should be adequate for SFADCo. The administration of SFADCo is funded substantially from their own resources and rent of factory premises, so it is important to know that they contribute very substantially to their own resources.

With regard to the points made by Deputy Lyons on public expenditure and duplication, we are already and will be pursuing exactly that point. We have set up a small permanent committee, whom I am chairing, involving all the agencies, and one matter we are considering is duplication — for instance, between ACOT and AFT — because we have no room for duplication; we cannot afford it. But in the same breath let me assure the House that, as far as the duties of SFADCo with regard to the airlines and tourism are concerned, there will be no diminution of their functions in anything they have been doing and doing well. I favour the regular review of the affairs of the company because it is right that we should have this review by the owners of the company who effectively are the Oireachtas.

Deputy O'Keeffe pointed out that the potential of mariculture for creating employment has not been exploited. An objective of the company has been to investigate the possibility of developing and processing fish products using natural resources which exist in the Shannon estuary and off the west coast of County Clare. The use of Shannon Airport as a means of supplying markets has been studied. However, there are difficulties in developing this sector, not the least being the licensing regulations and the time scale involved in establishing projects. SFADCo's strategy has been to involve all development agencies in a joint planning exercise designed to identify constraints clearly and to agree on a plan of action. A study of the feasibility of establishing mariculture projects in the Shannon estuary has just been completed. Suitable sites have been identified for shellfish projects and the necessary application for designation is being prepared for submission to the Department of Fisheries and Forestry. Further sites are being investigated in the estuary and a number of sites with potential for fin fish farming are being examined on the west Clare coast.

The Deputy mentioned horticulture and the possible uses of waste heat from Moneypoint. Let me mention something I have been studying for quite some time and have discussed with the glasshouse industry. Whether it will be of commercial use will depend on the temperature of the water leaving the plant. We have such a development already concerning a turf station but if the temperature of the water is not up to a certain level it is not worth going into the matter further. However, we are keeping that very much in mind and we have done some investigatory work on the gas power turbine at Aghada and we find that the temperatures there are quite low. Generally, that covers most of the points raised.

Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 4.
Question proposed: "That the section be deleted."

I have decided that I would ask the permission of the House to withdraw section 4 because I am satisfied that SFADCo have, from my knowledge of them, operated the letter of the law in relation to Government policy regarding pay and numbers. Indeed, I am satisfied that the administrative procedures that exist are adequate to offer the control required without the need to strengthen it with legislative control.

In view of the amendment I had down on this section, I am pleased that the Minister proposes to delete the whole section rather than take the amendment. I will go along with that. However, I have one small fear in regard to legislation, especially in regard to State and semi-State organisations, that this sort of clause is included because it means the elimination of free collective bargaining between trade unions and companies. That is why I put down the amendment. I welcome the proposal to delete the section and if it should arise in another way we will have to deal with it then. I am sounding the warning signals that, if it is the Government's intention to introduce that sort of regulation in a global way, I would not favour such a move. I ask the Minister to ensure that his acceptance of the proposal to delete the section, as far as SFADCo is concerned, is the end of the matter.

I give that assurance to the House.

Question put and agreed to.
Section 5 agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported with amendments.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

I acknowledge the contribution and interest taken by the Minister of State in what I would describe as stepping into the breach in this Bill.

I am sure that the Minister would agree that the co-operation he received from us helped the easy flow of legislation through the House. We have said enough about the Bill but, since the airport at Shannon formed such an important part of SFADCo and the mid-west region, we should also wish our newest regional airport well and hope that it will be as successful as Shannon.

Hear, hear.

Question put and agreed to.

The Bill is certified a Money Bill in accordance with Article 22 of the Constitution.

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