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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 1 Jul 1986

Vol. 368 No. 8

Estimates, 1986. - Vote 42: Industry and Commerce (Revised Estimate).

Limerick East): I move:

That a sum not exceeding £245,847,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1986, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain loans, subsidies, grants and grants-in-aid.

The Estimate before us, provides, as indicated, for gross expenditure of just under £246 million in 1986, as compared with an outturn of some £255 million in 1985, an overall decrease of £9 million. Of this £9 million, £6.3 million relates to expenditure on the bread subsidy scheme, which is administered by my Department and reflects the reduction made in the standard rate of subsidy on 6 April 1986 as a result of the Government's decision to reduce food subsidies.

The Estimate contains the major share of the public expenditure allocations for the development of industry.

Again this year, allocations for the various State agencies reflect the policy, as set out in the White Paper on Industrial Policy, of laying a greater emphasis on technology acquisition and the promotion of an improved approach to marketing. There will continue to be close co-operation between the State agencies so that the assistance which can be provided to industry can be maximised.

In 1985, industrial output increased by 2.7 per cent and industrial exports rose by 7 per cent. This was a particularly heartening performance given the fact that world trade increased more slowly than had originally been expected. Continued output growth was recorded in the chemical sector (3.8 per cent) while in the food sector, one of our more traditional areas, there was an increase of 5.1 per cent. The electronics sector grew by a slower rate than in recent years, reflecting sluggish market conditions for that sector.

In the course of 1985 some 11,000 jobs were actually created in IDA supported industries, while SFADCo created a total of 1,000 jobs in the Shannon Free Zone and in small indigenous industry in the mid-west region.

However, despite these encouraging trends, there was a net reduction in manufacturing employment of 2.9 per cent but the rate of reduction has been decreasing since 1983.

In terms of new investment £400 million was negotiated by IDA in over 1,000 projects, both indigenous and overseas. In particular the pace of investment in small industry continued to grow with an increase of 25 per cent on the 1984 level. First time entrepreneurs were evident in the new start-ups. In 1985 the regionalisation of service to small industry was completed, with 138 of the IDA's staff now assigned specifically to working with small firms.

In 1986, industrial output and exports are expected to grow by 5 per cent for the year as a whole. Investment by industry supported by the IDA is expected to continue at a high level resulting in the creation of 12,000 new jobs while in the case of SFADCo, 1,200 new jobs are targeted. This development will be encouraged by the continuing fall in inflation, reduction in oil prices and favourable currency exchange movements.

The recently published ESRI "Medium-term Outlook", 1986-1990 predicts that total employment in the economy is expected to stabilise in 1986. The industrial sector will contribute to this improved situation by its increased expenditure within Ireland in wages/salaries and through the purchase of indigenous raw materials, components and services.

The Industrial Development Act, 1986, was enacted on 7 May 1986. This represents a further important stage in the progressive implementation of the White Paper on Industrial Policy published in 1984. Moreover the new Act brings together, for the first time, in one comprehensive code, the existing body of legislation relating to industrial development and the Industrial Development Authority.

The Act gives effect to the new policy directives and incentives for industry in the White Paper and provides for:

(a) new selectivity criteria for grant assistance to industry;

(b) the provision of technology acquisition grants for industry;

(c) the provision of employment grants to small industry;

(d) three-yearly reviews of industrial performance; and

(e) the pre-payment of up to one-third of R & D grants to small industry.

The new selectivity criteria will focus on the need to develop and increase linkages between overseas and indigenous industry and in particular the development of import substitution projects and export markets. Employment creation and maintenance, in addition to the new emphasis on output growth and generation of value added within the economy, will continue to be the main focus of State assistance to industry. The new criteria will result in a shift in resources from fixed assets to technology acquisition and marketing.

Grant assistance will in future be directed to remedying perceived weaknesses in Irish industry in the areas of marketing, management, research and development and innovation. Companies approved for grant assistance will, therefore, have to demonstrate that they will comply with the new criteria, have suitable company development plans and also that the equity base-financial structure of the company is adequate. The new employment grants will allow promoters of new small industry projects, at their discretion, to avail of employment grants as an alternative to grants towards the cost of machinery and buildings. The result will be to encourage more small industry start-ups. A promoter will now have the option of using employment grants to acquire modern second-hand equipment which would not qualify for capital grants. This will be of particular benefit to industries such as clothing and engineering where there is excellent second-hand equipment available at present.

The IDA will be in a position to offer grants not exceeding 50 per cent towards the costs of acquiring new product or process technology, including patents, designs, trade marks, copy-rights and proprietary and non-proprietary knowhow. The prepayment of up to one-third of R & D grants will greatly assist small companies to undertake accelerated product and process development and greatly ease their cash flow requirements for these programmes.

To ensure that industrial policy evolves in an orderly and planned manner, and that Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas are made aware of the costs and benefits of industrial policy at regular intervals, the Act includes a new provision for a review of national industrial performance every three years. These triennial reviews and the conclusions arising from such reviews will be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. This is an important provision as I believe that Government policy in an ever-changing sector such as industry needs to be dynamic and constantly fine-tuned to maximising new opportunities and technical developments.

In fact, a policy review of developments since publication of the White Paper is already under way within my Department. The review group is addressing a number of important issues such as how direct employment can be maximised from the industrial sector and what further steps can be taken to develop indigenous industry. The results of the review will be available before the end of 1986.

The national linkage programme got under way in July 1985. The objective of the programme is to develop a successful subsupply industrial base in Ireland for larger industry. From its initial focus on the electronics sector, it is now being extended to healthcare, consumer products and engineering. In 1985 a national linkage team of experienced engineers and management and financial accountants was assembled from a number of the major State agencies. The target for 1986 is to place £40 million worth of business contracts with Irish suppliers.

The company development programme involves the IDA, the IIRS and Córas Tráchtála working closely with selected companies to help them to identify and implement strategic development initiatives. The programme is designed primarily to encourage indigenous companies to develop to a point where they are capable of developing their own R & D programmes and achieving a strong international marketing position. Already many of the strategic initiatives identified by companies under the programme are being implemented. The operating target for 1986 is that 50 companies will be covered under the company development programme.

A further major step in the development of industry was taken this year when the legislation setting up the National Development Corporation was enacted in March. The necessary administrative measures to bring the corporation into existence have been completed and the corporation became fully operational on 11 June 1986. The portfolio of investments built up by the National Enterprise Agency, NEA, which as the House is aware has been replaced by the NDC, has been taken on board by the corporation. The level of funding allocated to the NEA/NDC for 1986 reflects the interim position of one and the coming into being of the other.

The National Development Corporation is a major element in the Government's industrial and job creation strategy. The corporation, with its equity investment powers, will be a potent force in the establishment of job creating enterprises with good profit potential, either on its own initiative or in partnership with other investors.

In the past many new employment creating projects have failed to get off the ground because the level of capital funding required, the length of the payback period or the element of risk were all greater than the private sector on its own was willing to bear. By demonstrating a willingness to share the risk associated with such projects, the NDC can also be the catalyst in generating greater private sector investment in industry. As this sharing of risk will be on a commercial basis the NDC will also share in any profits.

At this point I should like to refer to the provision made for further assistance in relation to Clondalkin Paper Mills. Deputies will be pleased to hear that the State's role in respect of the resumption of paper-making at Clondalkin Paper Mills is nearing completion.

Under various legal agreements involving myself, the IDA and FMI International Ltd., to whom the mills assets have been transferred, I am having a programme of refurbishment carried-out at the mills to prepare the assets for paper-manufacturing. The refurbishment programme encompasses all relevant aspects of paper-mill operation, including, for example, plant and equipment, services, effluent control and disposal, and factory cleanliness. The programme has been substantially completed and I am very pleased to say that the company is at this moment producing and selling paper.

I want to take this opportunity to wish the company well in its endeavours, and to congratulate all the parties involved in bringing about what I hope and expect will be the successful revival of paper-manufacturing in the location where it has traditionally dominated the industrial landscape.

I have referred to the perceived weaknesses which exist in Irish industry in the areas of research and development and innovation. I would like to develop this point in the context of the contribution which can be made by science and technology to industrial development by way of the introduction of new products, the improvement of existing products and the improvement of processes and, above all, in the aggregation of these various elements, by increasing the competitiveness of our industry. There are three elements in our approach to research — the universities, the research institutions and industry itself. The efforts of all must be adequate and must be integrated into a highly efficient total national effort. Coupled with the research side is the need to promote technology acquisition, a point I have referred to earlier. The Government have various measures in train to optimise the national effort in science and technology in all these respects.

On a wider plane there is a need for Europe itself to narrow the competitive gap vis-à-vis the United States and Japan. It is important for us, therefore, to tackle this matter at two levels, the closing of the leeway between Ireland and the more developed countries of Europe, who are, of course, at this level, our competitors but also, in turn, to make our maximum contribution to Europe's effort to close the gap with its competitors. In this regard we are attempting to optimise our participation in various multinational programmes under the European Economic Community, the European Space Agency, the new EUREKA programme and bilaterally. All these efforts are directed towards raising the technological level of Irish industry, not just by way of the development of new high technology industry but also by improving the technological base of industry generally. This is essential to competitiveness. We can get all the other elements right but still fail, if technologically, we cannot compete with the leaders in the areas which we have chosen as priorities.

The appreciation by other countries and by Europe generally, of this need is evident from the exhortations of the Prime Ministers at the European Councils extending back several years past but, more particularly, in that it appears now to be central to the approach by our EC partners generally to the Community Second Framework Programme for Science and Technology which is to cover the years 1987 to 1991'

The inclusion of industrial research in the programmes of the community is a comparatively recent innovation and, one has to say, is due in no small measure to the efforts of smaller countries like Ireland who have pressed continuously for a major effort in this area, looking particularly towards the needs of small and medium sized enterprises.

The success of this effort is evident in the fact that the major element in the second framework programme is to be various programmes directed towards the importance of the competitiveness of industry and services. These programmes will cover a wide range, running from the more obvious information technologies and telecommunications technologies to generic technologies for manufacturing industry, to biotechnology, materials science and technology, but also covering, more particularly, two new initiatives of special interest to this country — in marine science and technology and agro-industrial technology. It is our intention to fight for the maximum appropriations for this very welcome expansion of Community activity in these key areas and also to ensure maximum participation and benefit for Ireland.

I would like now to advise Deputies of some developments with regard to the comprehensive report on the food industry completed by the Ministers of State Food Group in July, 1985. This report was submitted to the Ministers for Industry and Commerce, Agriculture, and Tourism, Fisheries and Forestry. The Ministers of State, in compiling their report, had regard to a substantial number of written and oral submissions from a number of agencies and organisations closely involved in the food industry. In the light of the report's conclusions and recommendations, the Taoiseach, when announcing details of the Cabinet reshuffle, included the appointment of Minister of State Hegarty, as a Minister of State at the Departments of Agriculture and Industry and Commerce, with special responsibility for food. The Minister of State for Food is the Chairman of a permanent Food Committee, instituted following his appointment, comprising representatives of the relevant Departments and State agencies.

The appointment of Minister of State Hegarty, and the establishment of this committee, is an indication of the strategic importance which the Government attach to the food industry. A start has already been made to try and maximise efficiencies in the food sector, in terms of the mobilisation of State resources, and an orderly development of the industry to the benefit of all.

My Department are currently examining proposals, prepared by SFADCo at my request, for an intensification of the food processing development role which was assigned to the company under the Government's White Paper on Industrial Policy. As I stated, during my Second Stage speech in the Dáil on the recent SFADCo amendment Bill, the Government have assigned to SFADCo the very important role of conducting a pilot project on the development of the food processing sector. The priority areas for action by the company include:—

—Increasing the number of highcalibre entrepreneurs operating well structured firms in the food processing industry.

—Stimulating the development of quality new products.

—Developing and testing initiatives and programmes which, if successful, will be applied on a national basis.

The food processing and agri-business sector is one of the country's largest employers with approximately 20 per cent of the total workforce. The industry is well diversified in processing techniques and products. Additionally it is well dispersed throughout the country giving it economic and social importance of national dimension. However, compared to other food processing countries our efforts are mainly concentrated in commodity opportunities. I strongly believe that to advance we need to produce high value added process products for specific market niches. To achieve this we need a major expansion of the population of creative food firms producing quality products for carefully researched markets both at home and abroad, but particularly abroad. The task given to SFADCo is to find the ways to achieve this goal.

The current Multifibre Arrangement, MFA III, which regulates world trade in textiles, expires at the end of July 1986. The EC have adopted a negotiating mandate which supports the renewal of the MFA with more flexibility in its application. I am satisfied that Ireland's particular concerns are adequately taken account of in the Community's mandate. Discussions under the GATT auspices, on the future of the MFA are now entering an intensive phase. I must point out that it is clear from the stance being adopted by the developing countries, whose agreement is essential for the renewal of the MFA that negotiations will prove to be difficult.

The Irish Goods Council are particularly active in assisting Irish firms to meet competition from abroad, through such measures as the promotion of trade shows, provision of marketing advice and assistance and, the development of the industrial sub-supply sector. I should like to comment on two of the schemes currently promoted by the council. The council's marketing initiative "Marketplace" continues to operate successfully and the Council hope to expand it in 1986. Under this scheme, young graduates in sales/marketing are placed for a minimum period of one year with a small firm who could not ordinarily employ such a person. The scheme is funded by the YEA, who pay up to 60 per cent of the placee's salary in the first year, and operated by the IGC. Already over 100 graduates have been placed under this scheme.

I am also pleased to report a further innovative programme launched by the IGC at the end of 1985. Entitled Salesforce it is intended to provide groups of 4-6 companies in a related product sector with the full time services of a sales executive. The programme is operational on a pilot basis with four Irish clothing firms and preliminary results are encouraging.

As a small open economy, Ireland has a crucial dependence on export trade which sustains two out of every three jobs in industry. As the House is aware, we were for many years dependent on the UK as an export market. Today, however, less than 30 per cent of our exports go to the UK and trade with our European partners has grown to the extent that the European Community as a whole accounts for 70 per cent of our export trade. While the rest of our exports are destined mainly to the other developed countries, such as United States, Canada, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, Ireland has also established valuable footholds in the markets of the newly industrialised countries and those of the less developed countries.

Consequently, the health of the world trading system is of vital importance to Irish economic growth and job creation. The General Agreement on Tarriffs and Trade — GATT — is the multilateral treaty which lays down rules for the conduct of international trade and since its establishment in 1948 has succeeded in maintaining a high degree of stability in the world trading system. Since acceding to the GATT, Ireland's trade has grown steadily down the years and I am happy to point out that 1985 was an historic year as we recorded a trade surplus of over £300 million — the first since joining GATT.

Strong pressure from protectionist policies arising from the slowdown in growth of world trade in the seventiesearly eighties has pushed nations worldwide to press for a new round of multilateral trade negotiations, which it is expected will be launched in September of this year. Ireland has been to the forefront in supporting this move. I believe that a new round of negotiations is essential for the further expansion and strengthening of the world trading system. I am confident that a new round will provide increased trading opportunities for Irish exporters and encourage investment in export oriented industries. Preparatory work is already underway for the launch of negotiations and Ireland is working within the Community to ensure that our interests and objectives are included in the Community's negotiation mandates.

I had the opportunity in April of this year to engage in discussions on the new round with other trade Ministers at the OECD annual meeting. I can assure you that Ireland will play a full part in the forthcoming negotiations. I will personally lead the negotiating team at the launch of the new round in September and I intend to see to it that the maximum benefit is obtained for Ireland.

My hope is that a new round of negotiations will help combat protectionism and aid the resolution of disputes between contracting parties. I have in mind particularly the strained trade relations between the Community and the United States. As Deputies will be aware, the US has experienced unprecendented trade deficits in 1984 and 1985 and this has brought forth calls from both industry and Congress for protectionist measures to cushion sensitive industries such as agriculture and steel from imports of foreign goods. This trend towards protectionism has given rise to a number of disputes between the Community and the US. The latest dispute concerns the accession of Spain and Portugal to the European Community. I am glad to say that both parties are engaged in negotiations in GATT to resolve this.

I have referred to our trade surplus in 1985. This was achieved at a time when export growth slowed somewhat in 1985 and weaker than ancticipated growth in world trade and a slow-down in the performance of exports from new manufacturing industry sectors meant initial forecasts, made earlier in the year, proved to be over optimistic. The growth of 9.5 per cent in value and 5.4 per cent in volume terms represents a solid and significant performance. Merchandise exports were valued at £9,744 million in 1985 compared with £8,897 million in 1984.

On the broader international scene, the volume of world trade is expected to grow by about 5 per cent this year compared with 3 per cent last year. In the OECD countries, which account for about 90 per cent of Irish trade, economic growth this year should be about 3.2 per cent. An upturn in world trade is being forecast by most international commentators, with the expectation that this will occur in the latter part of 1986.

In 1986 I expect that exports will top the £10 million mark for the first time ever, fuelled by a strong performance in the second half of the year. I expect that the volume growth of exports this year will be over 6 per cent with a value increase of between 3 per cent and 4 per cent.

For the first five months of 1986 we have recorded a trade surplus of £178 million compared with a deficit of £130 million for the same period last year. Import and export figures are slightly lower in value terms than for the same period last year. This is due to a number of factors, including the strength of the Irish pound against sterling and the dollar, the low rate of inflation in Ireland and the drop in oil prices. In the past 20 years or more the value of exports has risen faster than the volume. This year, however, the volume of exports is expected to grow faster than the value. The unit price index of exports is expected to decline by 2 per cent to 3 per cent in 1986. Exports currently represent over 50 per cent of gross national product compared with a western European average of 25 per cent.

In recognition of the critical role of exports in our economy the Government have allocated £25.336 million to CTT to enable them to carry out their activities in 1986. Of this, £24.536 million is being allocated to CTT's ordinary and White Paper related schemes and £0.8 million, to the market entry and development scheme. The overall allocation for 1986 represents an increase of over 214 per cent compared with the 1980 allocation of £8.06 million. It is an increase of almost 8 per cent over the 1985 allocation of £23.464 million which is quite a substantial increase given the level of resources available for distribution among the various State agencies. Over £5 million of CTT's allocation is being used to expand the schemes launched following publication of the Government's White Paper on Industrial Policy. These schemes address weaknesses in the area of product development and marketing skills and techniques. All the schemes are being continued and expanded in 1986.

While a final evaluation of the schemes cannot be realistically made for a number of years, I am satisfied that all schemes are well underway and are proving to be successful in developing a strategic marketing approach among Irish exporters and redressing the more fundamental lack of an international marketing orientation among firms. Marketing in its full sense must, of course, embrace a wide range of activities including the definition of customer requirements, the development of products and services to meet those requirements and the pricing, promotion, sales and distribution of products and services. For a business to be successful, this strategic marketing dimension must be at the centre of the firms' overall development plans. Schemes have been introduced in the areas of market entry and development, market research, group marketing for small exporters and building marketing strengths in firms.

Apart from their new strategic developmental work, CTT continue to assist firms at the operational level. They help companies to maintain and expand their present export business and to maximise the potential of their product range. CTT offer assistance to firms in relation to travel and participation in trade fairs and also assist with advertising and preparation of sales literature. They also assist exporters through their general trade missions, buyer airlifts, group marketing projects and handling of trade information queries.

There are other areas in which direct assistance is provided to exporters. Under the export credit insurance scheme the Government provide Irish exporters with the facility to insure against non-payment for exports due to political or commercial risks in the buying countries. This scheme is a valuable weapon in enabling exporters to break into new market, particularly the more difficult world markets, and to compete in existing markets. The scheme is required to break even, taking one year with another.

Under the medium term finance scheme, exporters of capital goods can obtain finance at concessionary interest rates on the security of an export credit insurance policy. In turn, the exporter is able to offer credit at low interest to foreign buyers. The interest rates are agreed internationally under an arrangement known as the "Consensus" administered by the OECD, and the scheme is of assistance to Irish exporters in maintaining competitiveness against foreign suppliers. The Government pay an interest subsidy to the banks to cover the cost of providing the concessionary interest rates as against the actual cost of funds. The subsidy may not apply to intra-EC trade as the Treaty of Rome prohibits State subvention of this trade.

The short term finance scheme caters for non-capital goods. Again, funds are made available at preferential interest rates on security of export credit insurance policies. The scheme is of considerable help to exporters in meeting their working capital needs. There is no State subsidy involved.

I would like to report now to Deputies on certain plans and developments in the competition and company law areas. Legislation is to be introduced shortly to revise and strengthen the existing arrangements relating to competition and consumer protection.

The new Fair Trade Commission will have greater powers to inquire into anticompetitive and unfair trading practices. The powers of the Director of Consumer Affairs will be widened to include fair trade. Competition legislation will be extended to new sectors, including banks, electricity and transport. Because of the significant reduction in inflation which has been achieved as part of the greater emphasis on promoting competition through the economy, detailed price controls have been allowed to lapse. However, the powers to impose price controls will be retained and they can be used if that proves to be necessary

The Companies (Amendment) Bill, 1985, which deals with the preparation and publication of accounts of public and private limited companies, is currently before the Seanad. A further Bill, containing detailed proposals for the reform of company law in order to deal with the abuse of limited liability status, is now being finalised.

This further Bill, which now contains around 190 sections, will represent the most comprehensive updating of company law since 1963. The work involved in preparing the legislation, both by my Department and by the Parliamentary Draftsman, has necessarily been both thorough and time consuming. I am confident that, as a result of this work, the proposals contained in the Bill will significantly improve the conduct of company affairs. This improvement will inspire a greater degree of confidence by investors and customers of such companies without, at the same time, stifling genuine entrepreneurial activity. The income from fees paid to the Companies Registration Office in 1985 was approximately £1.191 million, an increase of 10 per cent on 1984.

I have more to say but I presume I will get a chance to say it when I am winding up the debate and I can also reply to the points made by Fianna Fáil Deputies if they cover the areas I did not have time to reach.

I will try to make the best possible use of my 30 minutes. I intend to oppose this Estimate on the grounds of failure by this Minister, his predecessor and the Government to address themselves to the needs of industry and I will elaborate on my reasons for taking the position.

During the 1985 debate on the Estimates for the Department of Industry Trade, Commerce and Tourism, the Minister, Deputy Bruton said: the way was clear in this country for steady and enduring progress in the growth of industry and the creation of jobs that would be real and that would last. He said that this country had shaken off the lethargy of depression and taken the first strides towards a better future. He went on to say that the economic climate, thanks to the work of this Government and thanks to their nerve and courage in confronting unpalatable realities, was healthier now than it had been for many years.

Despite the Minister's optimism industrial output grew very sluggishly in 1985. In fact, the best estimate that can be put on it by the CII is that we had a growth in industrial output of less than 3 per cent. The predictions for 1986 recently quoted by the director general of CII is that there will be a fall in output between now and October. This contrasted sharply with the encouraging growth rates of 13 per cent recorded in 1984. The 1985 figures underlined yet again our precarious vulnerability to the fluctuating fortunes of the advanced technological sectors. To the disappointment of all of us they gave lie to the Minister's happy prediction last year that 1984 represented a turn around for industrial growth in Ireland.

The year 1985 proved to be a very bleak year for jobs in the manufacturing sector. The announcement at the start of the year of the loss of over 700 jobs at the Travenol pharmaceutical plant heralded the depressing downward spiral in 1985. Government industrial policy has significantly failed to create a framework to foster and strengthen the native industrial sector. In 1984 between 6,000 and 7,000 jobs were lost in manufacturing. In 1985 the IDA estimate that some 8,000 jobs in industry were lost. Between 1980 and 1985 we have lost 43,100 jobs in industry alone. Total unemployment has jumped in that period from 91,000 to 240,000. The loss of some 15,000 jobs in the manufacturing sector in 1984-85 signalled a further erosion of the productive sector and therefore of our national capacity to produce wealth.

Despite the projections of the White Paper on Industrial Policy, which envisaged an increase of between 3,000 and 6,000 a year in manufacturing employment over a ten year period, despite the projections in Building on Reality of an increase in net employment of the order of 12,000 to 14,000 by 1987 in manufacturing industry, jobs in the productive sector remain elusive. This is because the productive sector is weakening and wilting in a hostile commercial climate of high taxation and high industrial costs. In Building on Reality, commenting on the projection of an extra 12,000 to 14,000 jobs by 1987 in manufacturing industry, the Government stated that these targets were attainable. It is obvious to everybody that they have failed to fulfil these targets.

In relation to employment the IDA's end of year report of last December made gloomy reading. It is estimated that Irish firms made no contribution to the overall growth in the economy in 1985. The IDA estimated that two-thirds of industrial job losses in 1985 had been due to existing companies reducing their work force. Jobs lost in manufacturing industry wiped out the 11,000 new jobs created by IDA backed projects with the result that manufacturing employment fell again in 1985. I want to emphasise that point because the Minister referred to 11,000 new jobs which were created and I want to point out what happened to those 11,000 new jobs.

The IDA have identified the central weakness of Irish industry as the failure of managements in the larger Irish owned firms to produce development proposals requiring job expansion in Ireland and aiming at markets in the EC. The Government's failure to create a climate which would channel the necessary investment funds to industry must be held responsible as well in large part for the poor job creating record of Irish industry. The IDA's 1985 report could not with any confidence predict any growth in overall employment in the economy in 1986. This reflects the failure over the past four years by the Government to devise an effective strategy to achieve the employment target set in the White Paper and in Building on Reality.

Growth in industrial output has been hampered over the last four years by the Government's insistence on cutting back each year on the public capital programme. This year a further £25 million was chopped off the capital programme despite the Government's acknowledgement that State investment plays a pivotal role in the achievement of the objectives of long term growth and employment creation. That was clearly stated in the 1986 capital programme booklet. Despite the importance of the public capital programme in generating investment and economic activity over the past year, it has been reduced by one third in real terms, a decline from 15 per cent of GNP in 1982 to 10 per cent of GNP this year.

It is a simple rule of economics that a higher level of investment in productive projects is essential to create more jobs and to improve living standards. The cutbacks in the public capital programme mean that viable capital projects are being postponed especially in the area of providing essential infrastructure. It is very shortsighted of the Government to reduce the allocation for new road construction. Building on Reality 1985-1987 projected that £140 million would go to road construction in 1986, yet this has been cut now by £10 million to £130 million. This is deplorable in view of the fact that 50,000 people are jobless in the construction industry. In view of the need to improve our infrastructure and the fact that there would be little or no import content in relation to new road construction, does the mind not boggle at the policies being pursued and the attitudes adopted by this Government?

The PCP will fall by 5.5 per cent in real terms in 1986. The value of public capital programme spending in 1986 is almost 27 per cent below the level of 1982. Capital spending in 1986 will surely fall by at least 4 per cent, all this despite the need for productive investment in the economy. I suggest that if we are to make any progress in creating jobs and raising living standards we must double our manufacturing output over the next five years. Economists tell us that this will be achieved only if we can manage to invest £1,000 million annually. At present only half of that amount is being invested. Because of shortage of time I simply pose the question "Why?" and leave it at that for the Minister and his Government to sort out.

Our potential for increasing industrial output is enormous, as at present we produce only 1 per cent of European industrial output. This being the case, the Government's action in effectively reducing the industrial incentive package this year is stupid and shortsighted. It cuts across their stated conviction in the White Paper on Industrial Policy, paragraph 12.1, that there is a key role for direct State involvement in industrial development. The Government have penalised industry by the changes in the rules for capital allowances. The special 12 per cent duty on section 84 loan interest, the reduction in the funds available to the IDA and CTT, changes in relation to leasing and the fact that advance corporation tax is now fully operational will place a great burden on a small number of indigenous Irish companies who invested significantly in the past. As the CII have pointed out, these companies are now subjected to a retrospective tax which they could not possibly have foreseen when preparing their cash flow projections for investment. Reducing the effectiveness of the industrial incentive package when it is crucial to expand the productive base of the economy is tantamount to criminal stupidity and economic madness.

The failure of this Government's industrial policy is illustrated vividly by the number of factory closures, liquidations and receiverships in the past three years. In 1983, 369 factories were closed, 522 companies went into liquidation and 136 companies were placed in receivership; in 1984, 372 factories were closed, 584 companies were in liquidation and 112 companies were placed in receivership; in 1985 there were 410 factory closures, 632 companies in liquidation and 165 companies put into receivership. The figures for liquidation and receivership in 1985 will probably be greater than those I have indicated as the full figures are not known and that is merely a "guesstimate" of the closures, liquidations and receiverships in that year. In 1985 individuals and institutions invested 20 times more in risk-free Government stocks than in new risk capital in manufacturing industry. It has been clear for some time that the bias against personal investment in manufacturing should be removed. The Minister and his colleagues have ignored this need blatantly despite our promptings over recent years. People who invest in productive enterprises will continue to be taxed much more than those who invest in Government gilts.

This Government have also presided over the flight of Irish capital out of the country to contribute to industrial development abroad. It is clear that one of the main barriers to growth is private investment in manufacturing industry, and that has fallen dramatically over the past three years. In 1985 it had reached stagnation point. In particular this is extremely worrying from the point of view of developing the native manufacturing sector which requires access to financial resources if it is to achieve the necessary restructuring needed to allow it to compete on foreign markets. Native industry needs investment in manufacturing plant, in new products development and in marketing and export capacity, yet Government policy penalises investment in native enterprises. This is in sharp contrast to the investment boom in Europe where economic commentators have noted that the output from the heavy capital goods industry is now even greater than during the sixties.

At the same time, private investors are discouraged from investing in industry as the yields from lending to the Government in particular and the various tax advantages given to other forms of institutional savings far outstrip those of industry. It is crazy that we penalise productive investment and facilitate non-productive investment to the extent that we do at this time. It is sad to recall that this trend of penalising investment has not been reversed in the 1986 budget or in the Estimates presented here by the Minister today. The infamous or otherwise known DIRT, the change in calculating capital allowances and the use of levies are further retrograde steps which will slow down the flow of funds to productive enterprise. This policy of discouraging the private sector cuts right across the advice given by the former Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism when he commissioned an OECD report on the Irish economy last year which pointed out that the key to future industrial growth in Ireland lies in private capital rather than State grants. It pointed out that this will come about only if there are more incentives and an overhaul of the Stock Exchange to boost venture capital in Ireland. To achieve this the report recommends long term loans conditional on equity investment by existing or new shareholders and an equity investment reinsurance scheme. The Minister might consider seriously asking — indeed, almost demanding — that the Government adopt the OECD suggestion of a complete exemption from capital gains tax or at least a reduction to 20 to 25 per cent to make venture capital at least as attractive as investment in houses, flats, Government financial instruments, etc.

For the past four years it has been distressingly clear that large Irish construction and manufacturing companies are winding down their domestic operations and expanding their operations in the US, the Middle East and elsewhere. We will not achieve increased industrial excellence until we pay more attention to the calibre of our thinking. In Ireland some 80-90 per cent of State support is channelled into investment in fixed assets. Only 10 to 20 per cent goes to investment in our thinking capacity. Last autumn the OECD found that proportionately Ireland had just one-third the number of engineers of other industrialised countries. It is clear that our educational resources must be geared to meet the future needs of industry and that the industry must be created here to meet the needs of those who are educationally qualified to take part in industry.

Exporting Irish firms find themselves beleaguered by the 10 per cent exchange rate advantage that sterling now has over the IR£ and the Government's refusal to lower electricity, transport and communications costs in line with the reductions to the UK competitors. The result, as noted recently by the small firms association, is that not only are Irish exporters at a disadvantage in their main export market but they are losing their market share here at home as British firms can sell their goods here 10 per cent cheaper.

In relation to the future direction of Irish industrial policy, I welcome the Minister's endorsement in the Dáil on 10 June of the long-established national policy that Shannon continue to be developed as the country's transatlantic airport and that SFADCo continue to take responsibility for implementing that policy. This was an appropriate acknowledgement of the fundamental role of Shannon Development in our industrialisation policy, past and present, at regional and local level. Their contribution to the mid west and the country as a whole has been very positive.

The Minister also dealt at length with the company's success — I also wish to acknowledge their success — in that today they employ 242 people, they have an annual budget of about £21 million and investments worth about £108 million. Their strategy for the future is intimately bound up with industrial development and I am confident that the innovation and enterprise which their management have brought to so many spheres of commercial activity will be to the fore as they meet the challenge of devising new food products and facilitating the development of our small industry sector. Developing the technological, marketing and management capacity of native small industry is vital if we are to expand our production of high quality products for export. The pilot projects which will be undertaken in SFADCo's recently operating food processing unit are central to the challenge of achieving the full potential of the agri-food sector.

Their efforts are equally important in the area of generating internationally competitive small industry: 80 per cent of Irish manufacturing industry is comprised of small enterprises employing fewer than 50 people. The establishment of the innovation centre and the national micro-electronic application centre signalled the company's development approach to strengthening the capacity of small industry.

The National Development Corporation had a prolonged and difficult arrival. The Minister seems to think that the NDC are the be all and end all in regard to solving our problems of unemployment. It is amazing, therefore, that it has taken almost three years for the Government to introduce the corporation. The NDC were finally launched by the Minister on 11 June following years of political wrangling and internal disagreement between Fine Gael and Labour over the financing and mandate of that body. Indeed, one could pause to reflect with profound regret and sadness on the damage inflicted on the nation by the Coalition's policy cleavages on so many issues over the past few years, which is inevitable in the unhappy alliance between right and left. From the earliest days of their term in office the Government proclaimed their support for the NDC as a vehicle for State equity investment in industry. In July 1984 the Government, in the White Paper on industrial Policy, devoted an entire chapter to the National Development Corporation and their intention that the NDC should have a central role in overall industrial policy. In May 1985 the then Minister announced the operating details of the NDC. The former Minister, in introducing the long-awaited Government Bill to establish the NDC last summer, announced that the National Enterprise Board would come under the umbrella of the NDC on 1 January. That date has come and gone but nothing has happened. It is further bungling by the Government and creates uncertainty in our industrial base. It clearly reflected the confusion and the lack of unity of purpose regarding the NDC within the Cabinet. I commented during the debate on this Estimate last year, 28 June 1985, that the establishment of the NDC was motivated ideologically rather than by pragmatic considerations of how best to get the economy moving and to get more people into jobs.

The Government vacillation on this issue continued into 1986. Moreover, questions have been raised as to the corporation's freedom from bureaucratic control. It has emerged, in the review of their operations which the National Enterprise Agency conducted recently prior to the changeover, that some of the provisions governing the NDC are too restrictive to permit some of the investment already made by the National Enterprise Agency, which can be checked by a report in one of the Sunday newspapers of 2 March 1986. It said that two software investments announced in February this year might not have been concluded in their present form under the terms of the Bill.

It is clear that the NDC must have sufficient flexibility of manoeuvre if they are to operate effectively as a venture capital vehicle. There seems to be a question mark over their freedom in this regard. If they are to react positively to people with sound business development ideas, they will need to have sufficient flexibility in the way they conduct their affairs and allocate their investment capital. If this is not achieved we may say goodbye to whatever chance the NDC have of evolving a new approach to State investment in economic activity for they will become just another State body stranded by bureaucratic restrictions, the product of a failure of the Coalition partners to compromise on a pragmatic and effective approach to industrial policy.

I should like the Minister to address some of the matters which I raised, especially the recent takeover of Sunbeam Wolsey by the John Crowther group. I understand that Sunbeam Wolsey shareholders will be forced to sell their John Crowther shares within three months; therefore in effect, it means that Sunbeam and their subsidiaries will pass into foreign control due to exchange control regulations. That has very serious implications and complications, and the Minister should examine the stock control regulations and see that necessary adjustments are made to prevent this kind of thing happening. Promises and guarantees are not worth the paper on which they are written. Not alone is Sunbeam Wolsey in Cork affected; they also have factories in Midleton, Mountmellick, Dublin, Tralee, Bandon and Bray — seven constituencies are affected. Farmers who hope to grow flax in east Cork to make linen are also affected. The Minister must examine the options to see what arrangements can be made to ensure that Irish directors, shareholders and workers are working for Ireland's economy instead of the economies of others. I am reminded of the experience of British or other foreign companies taking up the shareholdings of Irish companies in the recent past. It also happened in relation to Dunlop, Ideal Weatherproofs and Dwyers, who are now wholly-owned British companies who do not provide employment in Cork.

The Minister should address himself to that matter. The Minister must have got one message from the result of last week's referendum which came strongly from young people — they want jobs and not divorce. The Government have failed on employment, on agriculture, on health, on education and on industry. They removed the food subsidies, the child tax allowance, taxed children's savings, threw their fathers out of work and closed down and liquidated at an unprecedented rate.

I hope when the Minister goes to discuss the Multifibre Agreement that he will not say what the Minister for Agriculture said — that negotiations will be difficult — and come back with a similar agreement. I hope the Minister will not give in to the difficulties and fail the people when he sits down to discuss the Multifibre Agreement with his partners in the EC.

I want to make a brief contribution to this debate. First, it is a very difficult time to be Minister for Industry and Commerce, no matter which Minister occupies the position. Since this is the first opportunity I have had to speak in the House since the Minister was appointed, I wish him well in his Department.

Rather than spending so much time saying how wonderful one side is compared to the other I would like to see us spending more time trying to get all-party agreement on what needs to be done for industry here. This relates not alone to the Minister's Department but to the Department of Labour, the Department of Finance, the Manpower area and the Revenue Commissioners.

The policy of the Revenue Commissioners on the collection of outstanding taxes is to put pressure on companies to meet criteria which might not necessarily be in the public interest. They tend to react to situations rather than considering what is in the public interest. There are many instances of companies who are normally good at sending in their tax returns and meeting their obligations falling into arrears of tax and, although intending to admit and pay off their liability, submit accounts and so on, being put to the wall because the Revenue Commissioners employ a policy that all must be paid within a specified time; whereas sometimes it may be in the public interest to give such companies a bit of breathing space so that they can continue to meet their obligations, give employment and at a future date pay the arrears of tax. I do not agree with the practice of meeting a formula for the sake of meeting a formula. We should look to the public interest, and that is to keep the maximum number of people at work. Every other policy or formula should be subject to that. The maximum number of people should be kept at work. I do not believe that among all the various bodies, the Manpower services, the Revenue Commissioners, the Department of Industry and Commerce and all the various Departments involved, there is a policy that maximum employment is of supreme importance. But it should be so. It is not good enough to have people who are in permanent pensionable secure employment, who can go nowhere but up in the public service, setting down standards for people in the private sector which they simply cannot meet and which will result in further unemployment. Unfortunately, that is often the case for instance, in the Revenue Commissioners. Somebody within the Department of Industry and Commerce should have overriding powers over all the other Departments with regard to maximising employment opportunities. That should be the main objective.

There is a difficulty with regard to some of the employment schemes in that some are run by the Department of Labour and not the Department of Industry and Commerce at all. In Dublin Corporation, for instance, there is a huge amount of work to be done which would improve the commercial environment in this city which is simply not being done. There is work to be done which would be beneficial to industry, to the environment and the community generally which is simply not being done because the trade unions and Dublin Corporation, unlike those in any other body, will not agree to the implementation of a social employment scheme.

It is outrageous that with almost 240,000 people unemployed trade unions can continue to operate outmoded and old fashioned practices which take no account of the need to maximise employment as the first and absolute priority. When everybody has work then we can rank the other priorities. The trade unions represent the people who are at work and do not take account of any but those who are at work. There is nobody representing the 240,000 people who are out of work. We have a public service of about 300,000 people, if one takes into account all the semi-State bodies. But we have a further public service of over 230,000 people who are unemployed but who come under the public service pay bill. The result is that there is a policy of some kind of apartheid being operated. The unemployed have no rights, no pension, nothing to look forward to. They get their money every week and it finishes at that. But people who are employed have all the rights and some of those rights deprive many of the unemployed of the right to work.

It is necessary to publish a White Paper on the whole question of industrial practice. I would like to see the Minister for Industry and Commerce and his colleague in the other Departments, Labour, the Public Service and Finance, getting together to put forward a united front on the question of the rights of the 230,000 people who are unemployed. It is not good enough to insist on rights, privileges and entitlements in regard to people who are at work when they interfere with the rights of people out of work. They have no rights as things stand. It would be beneficial to get all-party agreement on this. The right to work should take precedence. Yet we have given people, many of them trade union committees, the right to veto schemes which would allow unemployed people to work while many people who are at work continue to enjoy the rights that they have. I do not want to interfere with those rights. However, when those rights interfere with those people who are out of work, who are at the bottom of the scale, then we must call a halt. Everything we do should be subject to the primary objective of getting the maximum number of people to work. That should be our primary objective and everything should take second place to that.

In the past we have put too much emphasis on grants for machinery and not enough on grants for employing more people. The problem is worsened from the point of view of employers by some of the social legislation which passed through this House in the last decade.

The reality is that many employers would be made to take on people to work when they can get instead a machine which does not go sick, which does not have maternity leave, which does not go on strike, which does not create problems with regard to hours of work. This is the situation we have brought about. We are totally geared towards minimising the numbers of people at work and maximising the number of machines. A newspaper can be printed now with only a handful of people and machines. A car can be assembled with robots. If one drives into a garage one serves oneself and a man or a woman sits in behind the counter and presses buttons. Everything we have done has been to encourage more automation, more machinery and less employment of people.

This has happened not just in the interests of being competitive — it is an absolute requirement to be competitive with other European countries — but, even where manpower would be preferable, some of our legislative processes have put obstacles in the way. Because of the extra burden of some of the social legislation employers simply will not employ people but will use machines. It has got to a stage where somebody caught with their hand in the till in a supermarket cannot be sacked because the employer will be brought to court as some sort of villain. That is the situation we have allowed to develop. How can we knock down all those obstacles and maximise the opportunities for employment so that all of those young people who are coming out of school and onto the employment register will have the opportunity to go to work?

It simply is not good enough to continue with the practices we have been used to. We need an all-party review of the social legislation, which is to some degree anti-social because it discriminates against the weakest people in our society. We must also review the whole question of grants given to industries, some of which will pull out of this country at the drop of a hat. Let us face the fact that despite having arguments across the floor of the House, there is no huge disagreement between the Opposition and the Government as to what needs to be done. But because of the way society is organised we allow ourselves to be played off, one against the other, and the people and the cause we were elected to serve — the public interest — suffer.

Those in the community who are weakest, who are not in trade unions, who do not have a cogent group to speak up for them suffer the most. We do not get a united agreement on the sort of situation vis-à-vis grants for employment rather than for machines and the maximum favourable legislation to encourage people to take on work not just in the area of industry and commerce but also in the Department of Labour and the Revenue Commissioners. I would like to see all-party agreement and if possible a White Paper cutting across all of those Departments, and if necessary to consult with the Opposition before it is printed, to try to bring to this House for the autumn session a reform of legislation which could benefit employment opportunities. It is too serious a matter to turn our backs on.

I spent about three-quarters of an hour talking to a constituent last night. He pleaded with me to do everything I could to get across the need to knock down all these obstacles, pettinesses and clear disincentives to employment and to maximise every opportunity we can to give rise to the best possible atmosphere for employment. We could divert grants from machinery and give rise to the best possible atmosphere for employment. We could divert grants from machinery and give a bias towards grants for people. We need to grasp the nettle of anti social legislation which is passed through this House. It discriminates against the weakest people in the community. If we reform it we will have done a great service to the 230,000 people who are unemployed.

We would all like to share the Minister's optimism in so far as the level of exports is concerned. We sincerely hope that they will reach the £10 billion mark that he referred to in his contribution. I am interested to hear the conciliatory tones of Deputy Gay Mitchell in so far as he thinks that there might not be a great difference between the Government side of the House and the Opposition regarding job creation and industrial development policy. There is a very great fundamental difference. He knows that and that is the reason he is somewhat critical of the Government's performance in this area. He referred on more than one occasion to the need for reviews and further legislation to develop a better industrial environment for the country. We support the principle but his Government have not taken on board any measures which would have generated the means necessary to create the jobs and to reduce unemployment.

I wish to deal with the export side of the Minister's brief. Perhaps it has the greatest potential as regards our development process and certainly must have the greatest potential as regards job creation. This must continue to be our major political priority in so far as the economic development of the country is concerned. The Minister gives the impression of a certain amount of smugness in his attitude towards exports and the development of exports in the recent past. It is time that some markers were put down as to the way matters have developed over the past six months which might lead the Minister to review his position on this matter. The bald truth about the matter is that we are not benefiting from the increased European demand that has been evident over the past 12 months. The output from our manufacturing sector has been lagging. We have not seen the expected rise in employment levels.

The Minister referred to some of the motivators in the field of exports. He referred to the inflation rate, the strength of the pound as against sterling and the dollar and to the fall in the price of oil. These matters must be addressed. The inflation rate that the Minister referred to has been falling worldwide. It has not been falling at the same pace here as it has in our competing countries. The falling inflation rate should have been of considerable benefit to industrialists and the manufacturing sector in the area of lower interest rates and better cost control. I suggest to the Minister that perhaps there is something to be addressed there also. The strength of the pound as against sterling and the dollar is a two-edged sword. We have to face the fact that the British currency has weakened by 9 per cent against the pound and the dollar has weakened by 30 per cent against the pound. We must bear in mind that all these things must be managed carefully if we are not to have attendant problems created, particularly for indigenous manufacturers. These problems are now beginning to surface.

The Minister is quite right in saying that there has been a dramatic fall in the price of oil which bottomed out at about 12 dollars a barrel. In so far as crude oil prices are concerned we have not been able to pass on those price reductions to oil-based products. In so far as exchange rate movements are concerned that has always inevitably led to export and import price movements. They have had a critical imbalance in so far as manufacturing industry here is concerned.

In 1985 the exchange rate strengthened. Exports and import prices tumbled. This is now having a very penetrating effect on small and labourbased industries. The problems have to be identified. It appears that the Minister is not paying sufficient attention to them. If we look at the inflation rates that apply in our main markets we see that in the UK inflation is at 2.8 per cent, in France 2.6 per cent, and in Belgium 1.1 per cent; last year in Germany it was .03 per cent and in the US 1.6 per cent. We are considerably our of line in so far as the rate of inflation is concerned. Even though it might be in the best interests politically for the Minister to plead that inflation has been tumbling — I accept that it has been falling — it has certainly not been falling at the same pace as for our competitors.

Producers are facing markets with falling prices. The result of that is that the profit margins of our manufacturing exporters are being squeezed to maintain their competitiveness. We had some stability in that area for the past few years.

We are now facing the worst situation in competitiveness in the past 20 years. That has been established by recent studies in the OECD and the EC. In the new price environment that we now face in so far as fuel costs and industrial costs are concerned reductions must apply to the manufacturing sector. All these cost reductions will have to be passed on to manufacturers if they are to maintain their price competitiveness. Manufacturers and exporters are saying quite clearly that these costs have not been significantly reduced despite the fact that the Minister pleads that fuel prices and other prices have weakened internationally.

The companies most acutely affected will be the companies that are competing with the United Kingdom producers. The UK producer has a lower inflation rate than ours and because of our price competition and the weakness of the punt against sterling companies are facing reductions in sales into that UK market of up to 5 per cent. With our domestic cost increases averaging out at 4 per cent in 1985 and perhaps a little more this year, our manufacturing exporters are at a disadvantage of in excess of 9 per cent as against their competitors.

That damage is being inflicted on our producers is very evident from the depleted order books which is the accepted position in our export manufacturing sector. This has been conveyed to the Minister. In the first couple of months of this year there was buoyancy with regard to the order books but that trend has now been dramatically reversed. That can only lead to a stagnation in industrial output because the companies cannot physically carry the extra stocks for stock piling or their costs. Once industrial output is weakened it must lead to an unemployment trend. I estimate that some 5,000 manufacturing jobs would now be at some risk, most of these being in the very sensitive areas based on natural resources, the dairy sector in particular. This is something on which the Minister must take action.

Most of the manufacturers under threat are Irish owners of labour intensive industries. Companies particularly under threat are subsidiaries of United Kingdom companies. The parent groups can manufacture the same product much more cheaply and export it to us, rather than competing with their own Irish subsidiaries. This will be a very significant element of the whole export manufacturing sector for the rest of this year. The real reason is that the price of our essential services has not been addressed. We are not getting the best advantage in this area. Many of these costs are impacted on by the Government. The seriousness of industrial costs has not been highlighted. There are very great cost impositions in many areas. I will list five in particular which need the immediate attention of the Minister. They are interest rates, transport costs, electricity and energy costs, telecommunication costs and insurance costs. It is worth paying some attention to these aspects. We must get in line with our main trading partners if we are to remain competitive for the rest of this year and maintain the existing job levels, not to mention the possibility of creating new jobs.

It must be recognised that interest rates are falling but they are still very high compared with those of our competitors. They are about 5 per cent higher than those in Germany, which now makes up a very strong element of our total export drive. It has been estimated that a 1 per cent difference is equivalent to about £16 million in extra interest costs to manufacturers. If we were to get our interest costs on a par with the average in the European sense, reduced by about 5 per cent, that would be the equivalent of a reduction of £80 million in interest charges to the manufacturing sector. I would regard that as the equivalent of thousands of jobs. This is a matter about which the Minister and the Government can do something.

We are also out of line on transport costs. These have been estimated as costing manufacturing industry about £100 million extra. The question of the high cost of road diesel and tax impositions appears to be disregarded. If transport costs could be significantly reduced, that would have a very big bearing on the reduction of essential costs to the manufacturing industry and would lead to increased job opportunities in the manufacturing sector.

Our energy costs are still out of line, and though the Minister for Energy announced some cost reductions for the commercial sector to take effect from next autumn, even with those reductions our industrial tariffs are still 20 per cent higher than the EC average. We can adjust this ourselves because, for instance, the price of natural gas has a severe effect and the Minister and the Government have a direct controlling influence. When we talk about being 20 per cent higher than the EC average we must remember we are not competing with the average: we must take on what the highest difference in cost is, and in regard to our industry that would be considerably more than 20 per cent.

Our telecommunications charges are also out of line, about 40 per cent higher than our competitors' average. If we demand a response from manufacturers we must allow them to compete on equal terms. We debated employers' liability insurance at length on the Courts Bill and the Malicious Injuries Bill. The general insurance premiums being charged now are at a staggering level and they are impinging greatly on the viability of the manufacturing sector and their ability to survive. We have heard talk about a claims conscious society and the difficulties the insurance industry has. I accept there are difficulties but I do not want the Minister to continue to plead that it is all one way. I suggest that the Government, the manufacturing industry and the community at large have parts to play. This has been outlined in a recent report by the Oireachtas committee which dealt with insurance in relation to small businesses. Industry has a major part to play in regard to safety at work, but taking all these things as a package, the Irish manufacturing export sector is seriously disadvantaged vis-à-vis our average competitors.

We will not get the full benefits from our true economic exporting ability until some of these matters in which the Government have a direct influence have been put in order. The Minister in particular must give the full benefit of lower fuel prices to manufacturers. Depleted order books are the first indication of our loss of competitiveness. Consequently, we must have a loss of investment which means in turn that our output will be less than the average growth in the EC. That is the 1986 trend and, though I should like to join with the Minister in hoping for an improved rate of growth in our total exports, I cannot be as complacent as he. Our production costs will increase much faster this year than the average of our 19 main trading partners. It has been estimated that our costs on average will increase by 7 per cent which must make our competitive position very vulnerable.

Our unemployment problem has not been addressed and we have the highest in Europe. It is very depressing for the thousands of young people who are out of work. Things are not well for industrial exporters and it is not right for the Minister to seek to convey that the reverse is the case. The strengthening of the Irish punt had a very debilitating effect on our traditional exporters. Something will have to be done to redress this and it can be done only if the Minister takes the initiative in reducing energy costs which are directly under his control. I press the Minister strongly to pay attention to that.

Limerick East): I thank the Deputies who contributed and I am sorry we did not have more time. The views expressed by Deputy Lyons, Flynn and G. Mitchell contained a number of points worthy of further discussion. I will deal first with the point made by Deputy Flynn in regard to liability insurance. We are all well aware of the cost of liability insurance and the difficulty of getting cover. The Government are taking action on a number of fronts to tackle the problem. I refer to the abolition of juries in civil injury cases which should help to stabilise costs. The Minister for Labour has established a new board in regard to occupational safety and prevention of accidents at work. My Department have an arrangement with the Irish Insurance Federation to handle cases where there is no insurance cover. I hope these will improve the position in the next 12 months.

We are not alone in our difficulties in regard to liability insurance: whenever we pick up a newspaper we see stories from the other side of the Atlantic and from Europe. Companies who are paying high premiums should be more willing to take on people who claim compensation — firms should not always be settling out of court. It is time that we had more claims tried in court so that we would have a yardstick by which future settlebase ments could be measured, but there seems to be a reluctance to take cases to court, and this does not improve the overall position.

Deputy Lyons made a number of debating points and a few political points. He spoke about the concern in his constituency in regard to the takeover of Sumbeam Wolsey. He spoke of the holding of shares in the UK company under exchange control regulations. That is primarily the concern of the Minister for Finance. He spoke of the interests of the employees and shareholders and the maintenance of production here. They can be considered through notification of the proposed takeover under the Mergers, Takeovers and Monopolies (Control) Act, 1978. No notification in regard to the Sunbeam Wolsey case has been received in the Department. We expect to receive one and then it will be considered and the views of the parties involved will be taken into account.

I was glad to hear Deputy Lyons complimenting SFADCo. That company have done very good work in the past. They have maintained responsibility for the encouragement of traffic through Shannon Airport. As I said earlier, they have been given certain responsibility for development of the food processing industry and I hope to be able to expand further on that point soon. SFADCo are a key company not only in the development of the mid-west but Irish industrial policy as a whole.

Deputy Lyons spoke about road building and the public capital programme and the relationship between capital investment and employment. It was very clear that once we entered the EC we would have to change our industrial policy. We did that in a big way. In the seventies we would have been happy in any county or town to have attracted a plant from any multinational, European or US, regardless of the nature of the work they would perform. What happened quite frequently was that there was a boost and a demand for a certain product. A plant was set up in this country to provide the volume and fulfil the demand. Basically the work involved was assembly work, usually light assembly work. As demand dropped off, the plant was at risk as the company did not need to produce that cohort of goods and they closed the plant down.

In the past three or four years we have tried to attract into Ireland more strategic units of companies, especially of multinational companies. We have tried to get those here already to add on more strategic units. I am talking about bringing the marketing units for Europe here, about establishing data processing for the company here and, in particular, about the development of research and development here. In the past three or four years most of the major electronics companies have put in here strategic units of their corporations. They are especially strong in research and development. That is true also of the pharmaceutical side. That is the first point to remember. In this situation the firms we have will be maintained and they will be involved in wealth creation. They will have strategic units of their international corporations here and, ultimately, there will be stand alone companies here. Significant progress has been made in that direction and continues to be made. There is a change of focus in industrial policy.

The second point is the development of small industry. This connects with what the Deputy has said about unemployment. I do not think we can conceive of all those young people coming out of schools and colleges as employees or that any policy which one puts up will provide work for them as employees. We must get away from the employees mentality where everybody, no matter how bright, talented or gifted conceives of themselves as working for somebody else. That is not the way they think in the United States where they have solved their unemployment problems to a large degree. The encouragement of small industry, whether by SFADCo or the IDA, must be one of the areas on which we have to focus. If there are strategic units of American companies in this country and if we have very bright graduates getting the necessary experience for four or five years, we must actively encourage them to set up on their own and think in terms of employing themselves and three or four of their friends. I am talking of four or five people.

We must not smother them with paper work.

(Limerick East): That is true also.

The Minister could include tradesmen as well as graduates.

(Limerick East): The point was well as made by Deputy Mitchell. That is the second thing we have to do. We can move in that direction. There has been great progress in the development of small industries. If we had small industries in every town and village, we would be in a position, with confidence in the economy, where one extra employee would be taken on by each company. In terms of more than 20,000 companies one can see the lift that would take place. We must move in that direction and we are doing so.

The third thing we must do — this is absolutely vital and there is agreement on it — is to ensure that our indigenous companies who have been traditionally supplying the UK market and the EC have better management and marketing. Especially in the marketing area many of our indigenous companies are failing. We have sales executives but many of the companies do not have marketing executives and units.

They are at a 10 per cent disadvantage.

(Limerick East): If one cannot sell something, one should not make it. There must be a response to the marketplace.

They cannot carry the 10 per cent.

There must be fair competition.

(Limerick East): I will come back to the point the Deputy made in regard to the 10 per cent but I want to put it into the general context first. If we take Deputy Lyons' point about building bridges, roads and houses and putting money into the building industry, no matter what kind of boost we would get at any particular point we could quantify the length of time we would keep people employed. If we build another bridge across the Liffey, we can do the sums and say the project would mean employment for 200 people for 18 months but that would not be a lasting job. An enormous amount of borrowed money would have to be repaid. We must examine the capital programme project by project to see whether we are getting a return on the infrastructure which is contributing to the cost effectiveness of the economy overall. Of course, public capital expenditure has come down in the past number of years. First of all, because we are watching and evaluating all the projects and secondly, because telecommunication projects are now finished. The huge capital investment in telecommunications is no longer within the package. Therefore, one would notice the drop anyway.

Deputy Flynn made the point that it all depends on how we trade abroad. Of course, it does. The home market of 3.5 million people is too small. There are 320 million people in Europe. That is the market we are aiming at. The process has to be able to trade and export abroad and, therefore, creating wealth at home. When we create wealth at home, the way to distribute it is to provide real jobs. There is a strategy and it is working. It is continuing to work because there are more real jobs in the economy now than there has been.

I would like to refer to Deputy Flynn's point on costs. He went through a whole range of costs. He seemed to fight shy of exchange rates. The Deputy talked in terms of the weakening sterling and dollar against the IR£. We are not attached to sterling. That decision was taken a long time ago. We are in a basket of currencies in the EMS. We are linked to those. Sterling has been going up and down like a yo-yo since the start of the year. What are we going to do? Are we going to break with the EMS and attach to sterling? I accept that a floating exchange rate causes difficulties for those selling into the UK market. I accept that they can carry the level but the speed of the change can affect them. It has gone from 78 pence to 90 pence over about 12 months. That causes difficulty but it is not true to say that the benefits of lower inflation are not being passed on. All the benefits are monitored. The reductions in the cost of energy and oil prices are monitored. When it comes to diesel, petrol, heating or fuel oil, all the benefits have been passed on.

They have not been passed on to industry.

(Limerick East): The price of electricity has been reduced. That has been passed on. I hope more can be done. As inflation rates are coming down, interest rates are coming down. They are coming down slower than we would like but they are coming down significantly. There are now reductions month after month. We are getting the cost structures right. The ESB could do more. I would like them to do more but there are also inhibitions on our energy policy. There are countries in Europe which can produce electricity cheaper than we can but many of them do so on the basis of generating by nuclear fuel. That is not an option for this country. If we examine the structures in Europe, we will find that where they have large nuclear generating stations they are producing electricity cheaper. That is not a road we want to go down. Therefore, the costs are coming right. Exports are very strong and buoyant at present.

Deputy Flynn made the point that order books are dropping off. I know of order books which cannot be fulfilled at present. I know of factories that week after week are playing extra overtime and taking on extra people on a temporary basis to fulfil order books. I know there are people who are worried about exchange rates but I do not know of a fall-off in orders.

There is a fall off.

(Limerick East): People are concerned in the industry specified by Deputy Flynn but there is no hard evidence yet of the prediction he spoke about. There is dislocation. When the exchange rates are hard and the inflation rates drop rapidly and when, as Deputy Flynn rightly said, we in many cases are selling into a market where prices are falling rather than rising, there is difficulty but it is not going to be the hand of the Government moving in and lifting people up.

We can adjust the essential cost factors which will make it easier. They are way out of line.

(Limerick East): We are doing so. The cost of energy, transport and money are coming back into line.

Unemployment has increased.

(Limerick East): They are nearer to being in line than they ever were before.

So many people will have gone before we bring them down.

(Limerick East): That is not happening. Further progress is being made as the year goes on. On balance at present there are more companies thinking of taking on people to fulfil the orders for extra capacity than there are companies thinking of letting people go because of shortage of orders. The CII represent many people in industry. Some of their members are quite happy. Others are unhappy.

The Minister is out of touch.

(Limerick East): I am not out of touch. I am very much in touch with the situation. If we look at the survey of their members on exchange rates the recommendation was between 75 and 130. That was the range by their own members because they were in different activities. It suits some to have a strong £ while it suits others to have a weak £.

The preferred rate was 75.

(Limerick East): The preferred rate was not 75. The average rate came in at around 86 or 87 and we are not so far off that.

They can live at 81 or 82 but not at 89 or 90.

(Limerick East): It depends on the company. Some of them would do a lot better if it were 110 or 120. We have not time to debate the matter fully today and I again thank Deputies for their contributions and the advice given.

Vote put and declared carried.
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