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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 23 Oct 1986

Vol. 369 No. 2

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - American Visas.

5.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the current situation with regard to increasing the number of visas available to Irish citizens who wish to emigrate to the USA.

16.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he has undertaken any discussions with American politicians or emigration authorities in an effort to ensure that the interests of illegal Irish aliens in the US are protected and that a quota system as proposed by Congressman Brian Donnelly is included in the proposed legislation; and if he will now open negotiations with leading Irish-American politicians.

26.

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will give details of the numbers of illegal Irish aliens who have died in the United States in the past four years and whose bodies have been taken home; if he is aware of the absence of insurance cover for such people; and if he will indicate his willingness to raise this matter with American authorities.

I propose to reply to Questions Nos. 5, 16, and 26 together.

As Deputies may be aware, the US Congress last week passed a new immigration measure. This is now before the President and will become law on his signature, which is expected in the coming week.

The measure provides for an additional 5,000 visas per fiscal year — the US fiscal year runs from October to September — for the next two years for immigrants who are not covered by the existing preference categories. Although the new quota is not distributed on a national basis it is specifically aimed at those countries, including Ireland, who were the most significant sources of immigrants prior to the change in the US Immigration Law in 1965. The US State Department will be charged with the responsibility for establishing a distribution mechanism for these visas. The normal requirement of certification by the US Department of Labour that the immigrant has a skill not available in the US has been waived in respect of the visas. Persons who can establish that they have been in the US illegally since before 1982 can be amnestied.

On my instructions, the embassy in Washington has over the past number of years brought to the attention of the appropriate US authorities issues of concern to us in relation to Irish immigrants in the United States; and they have monitored passage of this measure very closely. The embassy is also in contact with the US State Department which is charged with administering the Bill when it becomes law. I am hopeful that the measure when it is signed by the President will help Irish citizens wishing to emigrate to the United States to do so in accordance with US law.

In so far as Question No. 24 is concerned, separate statistics are not kept on those Irish citizens illegally in the US who die there and whose remains are repatriated to this country.

I am keenly aware of the vulnerable position of Irish citizens who are illegally in the US and of the difficulties they encounter. The efforts I have just mentioned are evidence of this. However, problems in regard to insurance of the kind mentioned by the Deputy have not come to my attention and I should be glad to receive any information on this that the Deputy may have.

Can the Minister tell us why his representatives in Washington made no effort whatsoever to lobby Members of the United States Senate to ensure that the presence of those who have been in the United States without proper documentation or visas since 1982 can be legitimised?

It is not that we did not make an effort, we have been making very serious efforts over the past number of years as I said in my reply. The decision taken by Congress was that only those in the United States prior to 1982 should be amnestied.

The Minister appears to have missed my question. What I specifically asked was why his representatives in Washington did not actively become involved in lobbying Members of the Senate?

My information is that they did not.

Then, Deputy, your information is wrong, they did.

Is the Minister saying that the ambassador and his staff actively lobbied Members of the Senate to ensure that the deadline of 1982 would be brought forward?

We lobbied to see what could be done for all illegal immigrants but the Congress decided that an amnesty should apply only to those who were in the US prior to 1982.

Can the Minister say what his estimate is of the number of people from this country who have gone to the United States since 1982 and who do not have proper documentation to reside and work there?

I have no estimate. I do not know what the figure is. One sees various figures reported in the newspapers. I would not care to give an opinion as to which one is correct.

Does the Minister not think that it is his business to find out what this figure is as many families are greatly concerned about their children who are in the United States illegally? They would like to see the matter put right. They would like to see the Government and the Minister doing something positive about this. It is a very serious matter and do not one to be dismissed simply because it is not knocking at the Minister's front door.

I would not say that at all. If the Deputy thinks about his question he will find that any figure that can be given can only be an estimate. Anybody's estimate is as good as mine. Therefore, I do not propose to put an estimate on the record of this House as to what I think the figure is.

That is a ridiculous statement from the Minister. He has representatives in the United States. Surely, he can ask them to give him some idea of what the extent of the problem is or does he just want to forget about it?

I am not sure if that is worth replying to.

Would the Minister consider making information available to the public on how this new US legislation is expected to operate and how those young people who have been in the United States illegally from before 1982 can avail of the legislation? Could the Minister indicate also what representations, if any, he has made concerning those who have gone to the United States in the past three to four years and who may be there without proper documentation and what steps, if any, he foresees might be taken to regularise their position?

In regard to the second part of the Deputy's question, we cannot condone the breaking by our citizens of the laws of another country. Therefore, it is very difficult for us to ask the United States to co-operate with us in finding out how many of our citizens are illegally in their country. I recognise that there are thousands of Irish citizens — I do not know precisely how many — who are in the United States illegally. I have met a lot of them. I would not advise anybody to go to the United States illegally. It is wrong to do that but I will try to find a way to help those who are there already.

After the legislation is signed by the President in the next week or so I hope to approach members of Congress to try to do something for those who have been there since 1982. This is a long haul and a difficult problem. It is rare that a Bill relating to emigration goes through both Houses of Congress and it may be some time before another one gets through even though it may be No. 1 on the Order Paper. United States officials will not decide until the President has signed the legislation next week how this will work and the mechanisms that should be introduced. When that information is available to me I will make it public.

I want short questions, without preamble, from Deputies De Rossa, J. Leonard and P. Gallagher. We have spent too much time on this matter.

Will the Minister give an undertaking that his Department, perhaps in conjunction with the Department of Labour, will make known to the general public the legal status of people who go to the United States without proper visas? I am referring to those who intend to work in that county. I want to ensure that those people are forewarned of the exploitation they may be subjected to. Will the Minister undertake to publicise, as soon as he has the information, the way the new US legislation will operate so that parents and relatives here will be aware of how they can assist their relatives in the US?

I will do that as soon as I get the information but I do not expect to get it for some weeks. I doubt if there is anybody here who is not aware of the danger for people who work illegally in the US as far as their future careers are concerned. When they apply for a visa to enter the US they are warned about those matters but in case there are parents or others who are not aware of that I will discuss with the Minister for Labour the suggestion put forward by the Deputy to see if there is a way we can publicise this information.

Will the Minister consider devising another way of informing intending emigrants of the dangers of entering the US illegally? A boy from my parish was seriously injured in the United States — he may die from that injury — and he could not get medical attention because he did not have insurance cover or social welfare. That is a serious matter for Irish people who enter the US illegally.

It is true to say that such a person would not have social welfare cover because he would not be legally entitled to work. My understanding is that for insurance purposes a social welfare number is not required in many of the states.

What about medical expenses?

A person may take out insurance cover against medical expenses without a social welfare number in some states.

Many students cannot afford that cover.

I accept that.

Did the US authorities consult with the Department of Foreign Affairs before deciding on the amnesty for all Irish citizens resident illegally in the United States prior to 1982? If they did not, will the Minister consider consulting with US officials with a view to including all Irish people who are in the US illegally?

The Deputy must not have been present when I answered that question earlier. Obviously the US Government would not discuss their legislation with us. It is their legislation and they put it through their legislation. However, we made representations to Members of both Houses about the legislation and pointed out to them the position of illegal immigrants. Congress decided to grant an amnesty to those who were in the United States up to 1982 and not those who arrived afterwards.

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